Back in the day, the church could send its minions forth to rend and suppress books, shred their authors, and do battle against entire philosophies.
Sure: you hide behind them until police arrive. [My mad memetic skillz]
They’re praying a special form of Voltaire’s prayer, which is “O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous” – the Taoist version which is “In time, may my enemies make themselves ridiculous.”
Part of that comes when they start attacking fictions. That’s not unexpected because religion deals primarily with fictions – you have a population that has been acclimated to trading in absurdities like dead-but-not-dead jews and demons and fire-filled hells presided over by Ronnie James Dio. The problem is that they take this goofy stuff seriously. Then, they expect some of us to sit down with them and debate them, as if they were serious people. They’re not serious people, and their very familiarity with making stuff up gives them a significant edge in the exercise because, obviously, they are not bound to truth. Debates are a way of framing people’s opinions about things, in lieu of facts. That’s why there is not a lot of debate among physicists (except for the meta-stuff about “what should we study next and how?” or “where shall we go for lunch?”
The Guardian reports: [guar]
Harry Potter books removed from Catholic school ‘on exorcists’ advice’
Pastor at St Edward junior school in Nashville says JK Rowling’s use of ‘actual spells’ risks conjuring evil spirits
Well, for one thing, if that exorcist knew any actual evil spells, his pals ought to strap him to a railroad tie and set fire to him, or whatever is the preferred environmentally-friendly way of getting rid of a warlock these days.
Someone made this lovely meme from a stock photo I shot back in 2008 or so
This is serious business, though. Never mind that someone has a better argument that “they are badly written” which might pull some weight:
“These books present magic as both good and evil, which is not true, but in fact a clever deception,” Rev Dan Reehil wrote. “The curses and spells used in the books are actual curses and spells; which when read by a human being risk conjuring evil spirits into the presence of the person reading the text.”
In other words, reverend dipstick is saying that conjuring evil spirits is so evil that an unequipped unprepared amateur might succeed in doing so. Aside from Donald Trump, who is unfortunately not a metaphysical manifestation, where does this come from? If it’s so easy can I throw a pentagram and dig some of that old fraud Crowley off my shelf, and summon a demon to eat the fraying cotton candy that is Donald Trump’s soul?
This is what I mean about how you can wear a meme out from over-use. Since it’s pretty obvious by now that reading Harry Potter does not summon demons – it only summons endless Hollywood cash-ins an tchochkes – then saying it’s going to happen amounts to a wrong prediction.
Curses and spells included in the bestselling books, which were published between 1997 and 2007, include “avada kedavra”, the “killing” curse; “crucio”, the torture curse; and “imperio”, which allows the wizards to control others’ actions.
Rebecca Hammel, superintendent of schools for the Catholic diocese of Nashville, told the Tennessean that Reehil had sent the email after an inquiry from a parent. She added that “he’s well within his authority to act in that manner”, because “each pastor has canonical authority to make such decisions for his parish school.”
Holy shit! I did not realize that Harry Potter disclosed “avada kedavra” (I.e.: “abracadabra” if you’re from New York) to millions of people. And now that it has been exposed: manifestly nothing has happened. Except that the catholic church continues to lose members and its senior leaders keep going to prison for sexually molesting kids.
Maybe the demons they should be worried about look like Cardinal Pell.
While he was still a cardinal in 2003, the future Pope Benedict XVI described the books as “subtle seductions which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul before it can grow properly.”
I still have my original set
Then he’s a fucking jackass who deserves to be mocked. I grew up during the brief period where the religious right was getting upset about kids learning demonic spells from Dungeons and Dragons, which is funny, because their whole bible sounds like a really bad LARP campaign that spun off the rails somewhere. The whole catholic church is, basically a goofy LARP campaign, with all those saints and +10 Finger of John The Baptist magical items, incense, big hats and satin slippers. If this fellow is worried that reading Harry Potter is going to make some kid want to be a warlock, he really needs to take a good look at the pope. Especially the Ratzinger one, who looked like he was going to whip out a Sith-lord’s light-saber at anyone who looked askance at the handsome priestly comfort-boy that travelled everywhere with him.
The reason christians are bothered by Harry Potter is because the potter-verse reveals the christian landscape to be just as empty and fictional. To be fair: a christian’s prayers are exactly as effective as the spells from a Harry Potter book. The difference is that Harry Potter is better written (and I think Harry Potter is somewhere on a scale between 50 Shades of Gray and a Dan Brown novel)
Let me show you who’s the silly one: the catholics still have exorcists?! What the fuck for? I sure hope they keep them away from the kids – scary supernatural bullshit can make an impression on a young mind. It’s utterly irresponsible (and ought to be illegal) to be bringing witch doctors exorcists in to schools. What the hell kind of unregulated human psychology experiment is this?
Most amusing, though, is what the religious haven’t seemed to figure out, yet. Computer games utterly gutted religion, starting back in the 80s and continuing to this day. The number of games that portray divine interactions with the player is gigantic – pretty much every game system with magic in it has some kind of spiritual explanation for the empowerment of that magic. And none of them is “catholicism”. Religion is portrayed constantly in gaming as nonexistent, ineffective, a mere plot device. When I used to play World of Warcraft my tauren tank would intone a brief prayer to the earth mother (thanks to a macro in the user interface) before pulling a difficult boss. That does not make me “religious” – it means that I understand that religion is LARP and that ritual is something humans do and it can even be funny. What ought to be driving the catholics crazy is that, every time a kid fires up WoW or Dark Souls or Skyrim they are mocking religion by recognizing it over, and over, again as an ineffective sham.
Don’t worry about Harry Potter warping kids’ brains. Worry about how your silliness and your inability to come to grips with reality is going to spawn school shooters and sociopaths who join the army to kill muslims.
For their general racism and voter suppression, I have cursed North Carolina with Expecto Blub Blub – the curse of rising water and hurricanes. Because it’s such a powerful curse and requires teratons of energy, it’s a slow-build and it’s going take a few decades to really whack them. It’s already started, though. Repent!
NC resident here. I am slightly older than you are, so a few decades down the road doesn’t really affect me. And the NC Superior Court ruled yesterday that the republican gerrymandered districts are illegal and must be redrawn. A good start, but there is still the general racism and voter suppression to deal with. Maybe you could issue a curse on republicans in general? (And make it happen in the next decade so I may still be around to see it.)
Well, since the very beginning I thought those Potter books were weak and derivative (because I’m well versed in the literature) and, moreover, for kiddies. I actually skimmed the first book well after it became popular, thus to inform myself.
Point being: that’s what Catholicism is — institutionalised magic.
Bullshit. Religion is portrayed constantly in gaming as true and relevant. It is a real thing within games which incorporate it.
Bullshit. If anything, they play it up; but it is acknowledged fantasy.
(e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Sinking+City)
Too late.
Actually most of the bible reads like very dry history. For some incomprehensible reason the ancient Jews decided to keep a thorough and honest record of what terrible people they were. PZ had something up the other day about David, and mocked it with something like “THIS is the basis of Judeo-Christan morality?” which just made me laugh. Literally nobody thinks David was a sound example for moral behavior.
I don’t know, maybe Christians were on to something because it seems TERFy spirits have been summoned into J.K. Rowling.
and I think Harry Potter is somewhere on a scale between 50 Shades of Gray and a Dan Brown novel)
My personal Hell would be a lulling voice reading Dan Brown for ever and ever. Even as a fantasy/sci fi/horror fan, I could not make it through one chapter. It was just SO VERY VERY BAD. Which actually confirms there is a Satan. Or maybe a Yahweh best described as the omnimalevolent Owner of All Infernal Names.
bmiller@#6:
If you ever want some fun have a dinner party with plenty of wine and pass a copy of 50sog around the table, everyone must read aloud a page, then everyone drinks.
I used to work in an adult establishment which started to carry a range of “50 Shades” branded products. They were all overpiced and low-quality, but they did come with hilarious relevant quotes on the packaging. They didn’t sell well.
I recently received a booklet in the mail (it never ceases to amaze me how well funded these people are) called The Sunday Law, in which it deciphered Revelation and came to the conclusion that the Catholic Church itself was the Antichrist. Why? Because they orchestrated a shift from Saturday (Sabbath) to Sunday being the Official God-approved day of rest. And despite all the evil in the world being wrought by humans every day, the one thing that pisses off God the very mostest and will bring down the final hellfire and destruction is everybody resting on the wrong day! I don’t even know what to say to someone who thinks like that while insisting that this God is merciful and loving.
@Ridana, well i better rest on Saturday and Sunday just to be safe :P
This makes me want to run a Burning Wheel campaign heavily based on early Christian schisms. So much opportunity for arm waving role playing and accusations of heresy
Best hells.
Still learning (and still down too long in the midnight sea),
Robert
Isn’t that the point? Are you trying to kill off Catholicism (even faster)? Heck*, the Jesuits are on record with their posh version of “get them while they’re young”, so it only makes sense if the church wants to hang on every last shred of “tradition” that still gives them an excuse to put on a show.
Eucharist? Boring. Crusades? No longer their purview. Firebrand preachers? Bit of a hit and miss, can get very embarrassing. So book burning it is! It’s literal rabble rousing, which has been known to bring a community closer together, albeit against people not considered communal enough.
(Arguably an exorcist is just another firebrand with extra props)
*Doing my best not accidentally to summon demons
—
Incidentally, I also think you’ve got the “religion in games” a bit backwards. Religions are very effective. Religious magic works, as your Tauren shows. It doesn’t matter if you don’t feel particularly religious about it, in those worlds the local gods can actually be put to work. A sharp contrast to ours.
If the magic in a world is religious that bascially puts the religion on the same level as gravity or electromagnetism: it’s fundamental (meta-)physics. (The skills in Grim Dawn are actually ‘explained’ an interesting mix of magical, physical or both) Few people worry about physics in their daily lives. It’s taken for granted, and in this day and age, wouldn’t it be a good thing for a religion to be seen as fundamental and simply taken for granted? (“Habit” it may be a big factor why Christianity is still hanging on in Europe.) Perhaps it doesn’t do much but you couldn’t imagine a world without it. So maybe by making faith a commonplace thing, game worlds could create the expectation of a religious component, even if it doesn’t have much impact. You have to be an experienced exorcist before you can believe that reading childrens’/young adult novels is enough to summon evil spirits. Religion just one more aspect the world seemingly needs to work, like thermodynamics. Personally, I try not to think about thermodynamics if I can help it but I’d start to worry if they vanished.
Oh, and if religions are part of the fabric of the world, that would make their gods are fundamental particles. And now I wonder what happens if you accelerate two deities to .99c and smash them together…