A few years ago I became a fanatical convert to full cast audiobooks. That’s where the book is presented more like a radio drama than just someone reading aloud.
My conversion was a result of listening to a full cast recording (By Blackstone audio, I think it was) of Plato’s Socratic dialogues. Whoever did it was brilliant – they had a guy playing Socrates who managed to speak clearly yet sound like a mumbly academic type. Picture a philosophy-loving version of PZ Myers if you will. The rest of the cast included a querulous but annoyed-sounding Euthyphro, etc. It was witty, interesting, and engaging – suddenly the words came alive and I was able to listen through the whole thing, that I had not managed to read before without falling asleep.
Another notable full cast recording is the version of Neil Gaiman’s American Gods. That’s really well done and also makes the words pop into my brain.
I mention all this because lately I have been listening to, and loving, Frank Herbert’s Dune on Audible. I’ve read Dune in book form I don’t know how many times, but the full cast recording, again, really pops. [audible] It’s giving me a chance to re-appreciate Frank Herbert’s {beautiful|over-wrought} mise-en-scene. I happen to like it, your mileage may vary, but Herbert, undeniably, did one of science fictions’ great jobs of world-building.
I’ve noticed there is an art-form to creating a vivid time and place in a reader’s mind, which is to simultaneously be vague while sounding precise. For example (if you’re a fan, as I am) consider William Gibson’s Neuromancer and his descriptions of technological phenomena. Go back and look at them and you’ll realize that they’re very vague yet still evocative: “A kind of consensual hallucination” what? That’s cyberspace? Every marketing meeting I ever attended was a kind of consensual hallucination, too. Yet Gibson is widely credited with the term and the concept (I’d say it belongs more to Vannevar Bush but what do I know?) In Dune Herbert plays the same technique masterfully. We learn that the ornithopters are important, fragile, can be elegant, can maneuver, and – um – that’s about it. Oh, they have wings. But compare that to a book like ${anything by Tom Clancy} that is completely situated in its time and space, and is dated the minute it rolls off the press.
Charles Stross has written some interesting stuff over on his blog [dude, you broke the future] What if you wrote a science fiction book that assumed there are technological civilizations on Earth in 2500AD? Well, there probably won’t be. Whups. You have to carefully pick and scope your idea of “the future” because it can be invalidated.
Let me give you an example:
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.
That is, of course, the iconic opening sentence of William Gibson’s prophetic novel of the future, Neuromancer. Which is now read by kids who have never experienced a television, let alone a “dead channel” – everything nowadays consumes noise-free digital signals and goes blank if it’s not getting a decodable signal. I still love Neuromancer but it’s funny how Gibson, who carefully dodged getting into future technology, stumbled on old technology.
Chani and Paul Atreides
Anyhow, Dune. Are you anticipating the new version, or dreading it? I think that, so far, the casting seems to be really well done. Zendaya as Chani is perfect. Timothee Chalamet is a fey Paul. I thought Sting was a good Feyd Rautha and it would have been funny if they brought him back as Thufir Hawat, but they didn’t. The massive change in the cinema system, in which we are no longer expected to see “a movie” but rather “a series of episodes” gives tremendous flexibility for a film-maker who wants to pick through a massive narrative like Dune and doesn’t have to try to fit it all into a 2.5 hour time slot, based on Americans’ dwindling attention-span. I have hope, but I’m also sure that Hollywood will disappoint. I still with Jodorowsky had made his version, though it would have been too short to be any good and he was going to clearly spend too much time dwelling on the wrong things. The documentary about his attempt is still worth watching. [wik] If you like documentaries about disasters in the arts, Hearts of Darkness [wik] has been re-released. That’s the documentary about making Apocalypse Now and has the memorable quote from Coppola: “We were in the jungle, there were too many of us, we had access to too much money, too much equipment, and little by little we went insane” Lost in La Mancha, [wik] is another descent into film-making hell, being an account of Terry Gilliam’s attempt to make a film version of Don Quixote, a quixotic project that left a sizeable crater.
I was hoping that the new Dune would have a soundtrack by Jóhann Jóhannsson, like Denis Villeneuve’s movie Arrival – damn, that was good. I suppose nobody can afford a Vangelis soundtrack, anymore, and there are all kinds of stories about how he pulled the soundtrack for Blade Runner together late, at the last minute, and a masterpiece.
Sorry, I’m starting to ramble. Consider this to be a positive review of the Audible version of Dune.
I have to ramble a bit more about one other area where science fiction writers stumble badly: combat. It’s going to be a challenge for anyone who makes Dune, too. Basically, they have to represent an upgraded form of knife-fighting, which is somehow new and different enough that it’s believably incredibly awesome, but not ridiculous. Think about that problem for a second. Ugh. If I were the fight choreographer, I wouldn’t show Paul stabbing anyone, I’d have him step quickly past his opponent, who then falls face-down, bleeding, dead – like the way Ryunosuke dances through Sword of Doom. Again – same problem: you can’t represent someone with a samurai sword as having an amazing, awesome new technique, because if there were one, that’s how kenjutsu would be done, right now. You can only represent someone as faster and smoother than everyone else, which Shintaro Katsu sort of did in his Zatoichi movies, except Zatoichi’s fakie sword-grip is demonstrably slower and against a skilled opponent it would just have gotten him killed. Hm, I wonder if I should do a posting on “essential samurai movies.”
Speaking of radio drama, the old Mercury Theater radio dramas are available on the ‘net. [mercury] When I was a kid, I listened to them. My dad had recordings (on reel to reel tape, no less) and I loved them. And if you like radio drama, Lindsey Graham’s 1865 is terrific: it’s a radio drama about Lincoln’s assassination and the politics around it, with some really top-shelf acting and audio foley. [1865] I guess the best thing I can say about that is I got my dad hooked on it, and he’s a historian. [US history is not his thing, so much, but he represents a highly critical audience]
I liked Robert J. Sawyer’s update on Gibson’s line in one of his WWW books, although that update itself is now outdated:
I got turned on to audio books about ten years ago and they now constitute the bulk of my reading. They’re great since I don’t have to sit still for long periods of time and can actually being reading while I’m getting other things done.
Neither. (Why can’t they do new stuff, instead of the same stuff?)
I note it won’t actually be the same as the book (Wikipedia):
“Other changes included altering some of the arcs of the female characters in the book. According to Rebecca Ferguson, who was cast as Lady Jessica, “Denis was very respectful of Frank’s work in the book, [but] the quality of the arcs for [many] of the women have been brought up to a new level. There were some shifts he did, and they are beautifully portrayed now.”[30] Lady Jessica was given an expanded role as a soldier as well as being part of the Bene Gesserit, which the studio labeled as a “warrior priestess”, comparing to the joking label of “space nun” that Villeneuve felt the book gave across.[30] Dr. Liet Kynes, the ecologist on Arrakis who is male in the novel, was also given to a female lead Sharon Duncan-Brewster to help expand the cast diversity.[30] Villeneuve also wanted to move the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen from being a caricature as he was presented in the novel to a more complex antagonist.[30]”.
Bah.
My favourite example of tech vagueness is the Infinite Improbability Drive.
I bet there will be a lot to like about it. Villeneuve is great, and the cast looks pretty good overall.
I would rather they make another TV series that could spend maybe ten or fifteen hours (or more), instead of a pair of films that will be roughly half of that. Not sure what the thought process was like there….. I get the desire to avoid making some bloated thing that’s padded with tons of bullshit. (Not that they don’t still have some merits, but a few examples that come to mind: the Hobbit trilogy, the Star Wars sequel trilogy, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead.)
However, that’s less of a concern with Dune, because you’re starting out with something that’s already put together as a story and is already very densely-packed with characters and plots and whatnot. It does need to be trimmed down somewhat, sure, but it’s hard to see how they can really make it work in just two films. That seems like a lot of trimming.
Well, #1 is dead and #2 is 78 years old.
I’m a little surprised that Vangelis isn’t already retired, although I had thought he was a bit older than that too. I see he’s releasing another album this year. Anyway, a film score is not a small thing. (By the way, if you haven’t realized it yet, we’re not getting any more full-length John Williams scores either, which makes me sad. He’s 89.)
I have no doubt that Zimmer and his herd of assistants will make something that adequately fills the duration of the film. Not really a fan, frankly.
I really hated every minute of the Lynch Dune. After 30mumble years I can still feel a ghost of the feeling of wanting to kill everyone involved in the making of.
Not as powerful as for the Bakshi LotR, but close.
chigau@#5:
I really hated every minute of the Lynch Dune. After 30mumble years I can still feel a ghost of the feeling of wanting to kill everyone involved in the making of.
Not as powerful as for the Bakshi LotR, but close.
The Lynch version, when I first watched it, was brain-bustingly bad. It still is, But I saw enough moments in there that I realized that the story is just too big to fit into a single movie. That’s funny because if any book was written to be a ideal screenplay it’d be Dune – except screenplays have to be simple and have only one major plot twist, etc.
I used to think LOTR was impossible to make into a movie (I saw the Bakshi version on opening night) but I think Peter Jackson did a fair job thanks to recent advances in 3D special effects. But I hate what he did with the ending – it was an act of supreme arrogance to hew to Tolkien’s line through all 3 books and then decide to change the ending. And the Hobbit was simply awful, goblin flume-ride and whatnot. Arrgh!
consciousness razor@#4:
Well, #1 is dead and #2 is 78 years old.
I must have checked the wrong Wikipedia page, because it said he is still alive. How unfortunate! I selfishly wish he had stuck around longer to make more beautiful music.
Trickster Goddess@#1:
I got turned on to audio books about ten years ago and they now constitute the bulk of my reading. They’re great since I don’t have to sit still for long periods of time and can actually being reading while I’m getting other things done.
Yup. I have some bluetooth earbuds that I can wear under my earmuffs while I’m grinding and sawing and whatnot. The good part is I tear through audiobooks that way. The bad part is that it seriously reduces my situational awareness.
consciousness razor@#4:
I would rather they make another TV series that could spend maybe ten or fifteen hours (or more), instead of a pair of films that will be roughly half of that
I agree, except…
I think the TV series aren’t well-enough funded to do the kind of lavish production Villeneuve wants to do. Which is OK, except it drives a bunch of decisions that, like you, I don’t agree with. The book is work a 15 hour mini-series and I don’t see how Game of Thrones’ massive success is not achievable again. [Although that brings up the horrible possibility of Dune, Season 2]
Unfortunately with Hollywood we are often left hoping for a “director’s cut” which is longer but probably sucks.
Yeah…. And cocaine + flu medicine? Do not try that at home.
The score for Arrival is pretty incredible. Extremely simple, bare-bones melodies and so on — not at all complicated in that sense, although I’m sure mixing was a nightmare. The music’s just so weird and fits so nicely with each scene.
The sort of thing Hans Zimmer should be writing, I guess…. There’s a lot to sink your teeth into, but the ideas are still very clear and appropriate for the film, not just a huge mess that’s dumped on the audience’s lap.
Definitely a big loss.
Exactly. But here’s the plan. I just came up with it. It’s very simple.
1) Make an adaptation of the first book.
2) Stick to the plan and make huge profits from that.
3) Do not make anything else about Dune.
4) Build on your fantastic success to work on other big projects.
5) Continue to not make more sequels and spin-offs and whatnot involving Dune, because that part of your career has been successfully completed and you should be happy about that.
6) Profit some more, from other things.
7) Die peacefully, and let others remember you and your work fondly.
If we didn’t have to worry about people’s stupidity and greed and hubris, I think the plan could actually work. But alas….
The radio show of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy is better than the books, televisions, and movies and remakes of the radio show, books, and movies.
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As for myself, I run out of the necessary neurochemicals after two hours, and this has always been true. My attention span has not been diminished, I just can’t watch movies that long without forgetting huge chunks of them by the time the movie is over. With punch-happy plotless Marvel movies this just doesn’t matter. With a movie that requires brain-power to watch, and these are the ones that movie critics seem to adore, it does.
There’s nothing wrong with long entertainments pleasing you though, you do you. And sometimes a movie is a pretext for sitting quietly in the dark, something american culture doesn’t otherwise like.
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Most screenplays have only a short-story’s worth of information in them. Screenplays are big and long because the rest of the contents of the screenplay is all about direction for actors and cameras because in a movie or play your visuals and foley and + are made FOR you. In a book you are imagining it, and as the OP and commentors here have said book descriptions can be quite impressionistic and dependent on the culture that they are in. So while Dune is written in a cinematic style, it is not suitable. It is way way too long and contains the author’s predjudices. IIRC, since it has been decades since I have last read them, the book also has a lot of introspection and politics in it that you just can’t easily show instead of tell.
consciousness razor@#10:
The score for Arrival is pretty incredible. Extremely simple, bare-bones melodies and so on — not at all complicated in that sense, although I’m sure mixing was a nightmare. The music’s just so weird and fits so nicely with each scene.
It’s rare that I run out and buy a film soundtrack. But Blade Runner and Arrival are the two. I saw the movie in a theater with a great sound system, capable of the subtle deep tones and it completely blew my mind.
Something like that with a faintly moorish flair would be perfect. I don’t know what they have done with the asset design but I always imagined (keyword: zen sunni) the fremen camps as looking like a mix between a Japanese zen temple and the Alcazar.
And cocaine + flu medicine? Do not try that at home
I don’t know – I guess it would depend on the flu medicine. My guess would be something that contained pseudephedrine. I knew a guy who used to trip on sudafed and oxycodone. Yipe! I’m OK with taking weird mixes of stuff but I make a point to check the synergies, first.
I’ve never tried cocaine. It always impressed me as “the thing I would like way too much” so I have avoided it. Lately, it’s even more avoidable because the dealers have switched from cutting it with plaster of paris or flour to cutting it with fentanyl. That stuff is apparently amazing (never tried it either) but they do it because it’s cheap. The problem is, it’s so strong that if you get the dosage wrong, you have a bunch of people running around thinking they are melting, or just dying. I don’t trust someone who would have anything to do with fentanyl to accurately mix it into anything. It’s like the hydroflouric acid of drugs: the bottle says “stay away”
seachange@#12:
I just can’t watch movies that long without forgetting huge chunks of them by the time the movie is over.
Yes, same here. Especially if I have some alcohol. (Whooosh, memories never get tracked in!)
So while Dune is written in a cinematic style, it is not suitable. It is way way too long and contains the author’s predjudices. IIRC, since it has been decades since I have last read them, the book also has a lot of introspection and politics in it that you just can’t easily show instead of tell.
Yes, well the full cast audio is cast + narrator, so the narrator breaks in and says what everyone is thinking. It works. I wonder if a movie could be done like that – have a shakespearean air to it. It’d work; you’d have to make it look like a theatrical production, where everyone goes about their thing silently while the narrator narrates. Ah, well.
Also: the Villeneuve version apparently adjusts womens’ roles a bit. Liet-Kynes is a woman and Jessica is less of a pawn and more of a warrior priestess. I … guess so. I don’t want “Bene Gesserit Witch” to be a role model for young anyone of any gender.
And you are right about the Hitchikers Guide full cast recording. That’s great stuff.