No one dreams about another life when he is very much absorbed in objects which he meets on earth.
Your host, Jean Meslier
In the eyes of a passionate lover, the presence of his mistress extinguishes the fires of hell, and her charms blot out all the pleasures of Paradise. Woman! you leave, you say, your lover for your God? It is that your lover is no longer the same in your estimation; or your lover leaves you, and you must fill the void which is made in your heart. Nothing is more common than to see ambitious, perverse, corrupt, and immoral men who are religious, and who sometimes exhibit even zeal in its behalf; if they do not practice religion, they promise themselves they will practice it some day; they keep it in reserve as a remedy which, sooner or later, will be necessary to quiet the conscience for the evil which they intend yet to do. Besides, devotees and priests being a very numerous, active, and powerful party, it is not astonishing to see impostors and thieves seek for its support in order to gain their ends. We will be told, no doubt, that many honest people are sincerely religious without profit; but is uprightness of heart always accompanied with intelligence? We are cited to a great number of learned men, men of genius, who are very religious. This proves that men of genius can have prejudices, can be pusillanimous, can have an imagination which seduces them and prevents them from examining objects coolly. Pascal proves nothing in favor of religion, except that a man of genius can possess a grain of weakness, and is but a child when he is weak enough to listen to prejudices. Pascal himself tells us “that the mind can be strong and narrow, and just as extended as it is weak.” He says more: “We can have our senses all right, and not be equally able in all things; because there are men who, being right in a certain sphere of things, lose themselves in others.”
Meslier’s argument here is one I made many times when I was first coming around to my atheism: why is it that all these people who claim to believe in divine oversight and retribution, act as if they don’t? It doesn’t take tremendous analysis to figure out that they don’t actually believe it at all. From there it’s impossible not to notice that most of the other things believers claim they believe – don’t add up. The christian who pulls out into the freeway is cautious and tries to avoid a collision, instead of smiling at the semi-trailer bearing down on them. Yet, if they believed they were going to eternal bliss, why do they flinch and try to survive?
One the main fault-lines of religion is the gap between what its adherents say they believe and how they act according to those beliefs. If I believed I was under irresistible real-time surveillance by a supreme being who’d torture me for eternity if I made a simple mistake, I’d probably sit quaking on the couch until dehydration killed me.
This bothered me no end when I was young, just how tenaciously attached to life were the devout. A priest told me it’s natural for people to fear the unknown; but I said there was constant talk of heaven and hell, surely it wasn’t felt to be unknown? And things went downhill from there.
Many religions are very stern on the topic of suicide and euthanasia, but it seems to me that only Sithrakism has something to offer on the topic. After all, no matter how bad things may be only right now they’re only going to get worse when Sithrak starts torturing you for all eternity – so you might as well put it off as long as possible.
Joel:
Only because they view that as taking control out of ‘god’s’ hands. Never seems to occur to them that if it was truly a god, wresting control might be a wee more difficult.
Caine@#3:
Only because they view that as taking control out of ‘god’s’ hands.
I always wondered if part of it was also to answer the “why don’t you christians just kill yourselves and go to heaven right now?” Uh, because god doesn’t want us to?
It’s such a messed up death cult. As Joel says@#2: we sithrak worshippers are much more rational. I really dread what he has in store for me and hope there’s no afterlife!
The most recent Oglaf is epic.
http://oglaf.com/godoflies/
You know, I’ve had many a christian tell me I should repent because the end is near, and that all the good christians (like them) will be saved and fly up in the air etc. and that nothing on the earth will matter any more. And yet! They will NEVER GIVE ME THEIR STUFF. What the hell?! Do you really believe your rhetoric or not, “good” christian??
Yeah. I’m a real jerk who really will ask people for their stuff, when they tell me the world is ending. As a result hardly anyone tells me that anymore. I guess word gets around.
kestrel@#6:
Yeah. I’m a real jerk who really will ask people for their stuff, when they tell me the world is ending.
Ooooo that’s brilliant!
See you in hell!
@Marcus, #7: **fist bump** YEAH!
It doesn’t take tremendous analysis to figure out that they don’t actually believe it at all.
I doubt that. I think that Christian actions make quite lots of sense given their religious beliefs.
why is it that all these people who claim to believe in divine oversight and retribution, act as if they don’t?
Because God is supposed to forgive all your sins as long as you say a prayer and tell him that you repent. Cutting out your eye after having seen and lusted for some sexy person is painful and messy. Saying a prayer is a lot simpler and more pleasant, which is why Christians do exactly that.
The christian who pulls out into the freeway is cautious and tries to avoid a collision, instead of smiling at the semi-trailer bearing down on them. Yet, if they believed they were going to eternal bliss, why do they flinch and try to survive?
-That would be suicide. And committing a suicide gets you directly to hell.
-And some Christians are not certain about whether they are going to eternal bliss or hell.
-Moreover, if you enjoy your current life, why not prolong it. There’s no need to hurry, you are not going to be late for the eternal bliss.
-And Christians are also taught to believe that God has a plan for their lives and they must keep on living until they fulfill God’s plan.
If I believed I was under irresistible real-time surveillance by a supreme being who’d torture me for eternity if I made a simple mistake, I’d probably sit quaking on the couch until dehydration killed me.
-Getting yourself killed by dehydration is a form of suicide (hell ensues).
-As for sitting and being scared, that’s exactly what some Christians are doing. On TheThinkingAtheist radio podcast I have heard multiple ex-Christians telling about how they were raised in Christian families and spent their childhoods being scared of hell and scared that any action they do might displease God. And even after leaving faith, these people still kept on having nightmares about hell.
@#6
You know, I’ve had many a christian tell me I should repent because the end is near, and that all the good christians (like them) will be saved and fly up in the air etc. and that nothing on the earth will matter any more. And yet! They will NEVER GIVE ME THEIR STUFF. What the hell?!
My aunt died of cancer two months ago. A few months before her death doctors stopped chemotherapy and informed her that there is no longer any hope for her (she had metastasis all over the place). Even though she was certain that she will die soon she didn’t give away her stuff. Why? Because she didn’t know whether she was going to survive for two more weeks or whether she will survive for six more months. And as long as she was alive she needed her stuff.
It’s the same for Christians. They know that the end is near but they do not know the exact date. What if they give away their stuff but it takes another five years for the end to come?
I think that the actions of Christians are mostly rational and consistent with what their beliefs say. Instead it is the religion itself that makes no sense. There are contradictions in the Bible itself, the religion cannot be reconciled with scientific knowledge about this world, the religion makes no sense philosophically, and the omniscient and benevolent God constantly acts like a stupid and evil jerk.
-A kind and benevolent being shouldn’t be unable to just forgive and shouldn’t torture people for an eternity.
-How comes people who just happened to be born in the wrong place and never heard about Christianity must suffer in hell?
-God wanted everyone to be a Christian in order to save their souls. Why didn’t God interfere to spread the only religion across the whole world? And why did God plant fake dinosaur fossils in the ground just to confuse people and make the “truth” less believable. It almost looks like God wants people to reject the only faith that can prevent their eternal suffering in hell.
-Why is thinking a sin? And why is it a virtue to believe with no evidence? Considering how many other fake religions are out there, it seems like a bad idea to believe the first thing you hear.
-Why is God so obsessed about being worshiped? He sounds like a school bully/attention whore in a single person. And he seems to have a really nasty personality.
And so on.
It is the religion itself that makes no sense. And believers just attempt to do what seems rational given all this inconsistent and contradictory mass of dogmas.