Marine Le Pen with Heinz-Christian Strache of Austria’s far-right Freedom Party (AFP Photo/Vladimir Simicek)
Brexit, Nexit, Frexit, Fuck it. The chain has begun, with far-right, racist leaders all over* cheering Brexit, and whipping up similar sentiments all over Europe. I’ll just give you one small quote, and you can go read the rest, I hate beginning the day with despair.
— And the leader of Germany’s right-wing populist AfD Frauke Petry said in a Facebook post the Brexit was a warning that “if the EU does not abandon its quasi-socialist experiment of every greater integration then the European people will follow the Brits and take back their sovereignty.”
Yeah! Can’t have that whole humans being compassionate and caring stuff going on, oh no.
*Including American racist moron, Trump.
Full Story Here.
Ah yes. The failed quasi socialist experiment of integration of the post WWII Europe. It was so much better in the previous centuries of continuous continent-wide warfare.
Not just Trump -- Putin was also ecstatic.
Alexander, oh, I know. Everything is going to hell in a handbasket, fuckin’ A. Fascism, it’s what’s for breakfast!
Petry is an idiot and what’s even scarier is that the rest of the AfD considers her too liberal. Sort of like the Republicans that worry about how liberal Trump is.
Sad but unsurprised that the small minded inward looking xenophobia that has long festered beneath the surface of my country eventually rotted away all the positives. Nothing left but for the Europeans to impose as harsh an exit as possible (to deter les Autres) and for the UK to rip itself apart (the Scots are already making noises about another referendum, and Sinn Fein seem to be moving in that direction too). Sigh!
Still, I am far away and probably will stay that way, so a detatched sadness.
At least that awful excuse for a human being Cameron will resign -- every cloud has a silver lining as they say (although a rather tarnished silver lining if that braying bufoon Boris Johnson gets the job!!!)
Usagichan:
The problem though, is not just the UK ripping itself apart -- it’s all of Europe ripping itself apart. The far right is rising, everywhere.
Caine #6
Yes, you are right there. Of course Europe has been straining at the seams, with the ugly Right resurgence for some time now. The thing about the right is that they are really really good at pulling the world apart, but after that they are bankrupt of ideas.
The point I was making about the harsh exit is that, even if it is economically disadvatageous to the EU, the remaining EU core nations need to positively discourage other nations from the same course as the UK. I think that they will do their utmost to grind the UK economy into the dust so they can point and say “That’s what happens to countries that leave”. Of course it is as likely to be counterproductive as productive.
Sad, and dangerous. I really can’t see a good way out for Europe either.
Usagichan:
Yes, although they have their all purpose solution to all problems: war.
I’m going to celebrate this by watching Adam Curtis documentaries all night. “The Trap” comes to mind -- his vision/explanation of how England embraced thatcherism while the US was panting over Reagan -- it makes sense. His thesis in “The Trap” and “The Power of Nightmares” is that the political class is totally out of ideas and have realized that they can’t positively influence economics or damn near anything else, so they have switched over to trying to manage our fears and that means presenting a false view of an unsafe world. Which, of course, makes the world less safe -- it’s what Chuck Spinney calls “a self-licking ice cream cone”
Curtis’ view comforts me: it explains the sensation I often have that there is a deeper, inner reality that we are not privy to, but explains it away as an emergent conspiracy of fear, incompetence, greed, and the upper class’ desire to maintain control.
So tonight I will re-watch “The Trap” and maybe “The Mayfair Set” and console myself that this is nothing new. It’s just the people getting fucked by another oligarchic pseudodemocracy.
Yea, funny how the experiment ‘failed’, right. We haven’t had a mass deportation since the late 1940s, and people see that as a bad thing! Geez.
I just came back from a European-level co-operation project in law enforcement, and it was definitely an interesting place to be what with the result this morning. Obviously we told the two UK representatives to leave because we’d have no more use for them… oh no, wait, it’s just going to be more difficult for them (and everyone else) to participate in these sorts of exchanges, if the EU structures fail. Obviously there will be some continuity, but it will be um interesting to watch the changes.
Also see the pro-Russia (I should say the ‘USSR was a golden age’ to be more precise) propaganda apparat reactivate with extra fervour in the post-Soviet bloc. This is not a good thing and it scares the bejeesus out of me, but then, I think I’ve become slightly more paranoid in the ten years that I’ve been living here.
I understand the point here, but you have to remember it is still a democracy and people do have the right ot make stupid choices. The rules of leaving have been set out, and it would be petty to make the exit harsher than it would be just to try and make a point, because it will only make those already pro-leaving even more so. It’s up to those still willing to work together to work out a functional alternative that will not leave anyone behind.
I’m already worried about the economic fall-out of this decision from the UK, seeing as how we haven’t even recovered from 2008…
rq #11
I am not sure that a referendum matches what I understand by democracy -- which seems to me more to do with the selection of the most appropriate leadership by common consent. Accountable leaders can (hopefully) make more nuanced, long term calls based on coherent strategy and policy (as Caine is making clear the rising Right of course fail spectacularly here -- but perhaps that is why the referendum is such a popular tool of the Right wing -- when it all goes to hell in a handbasket, then the leaders can say “well we were just following the will of the people”).
Government by referendum seems much more Anarchist (although most of the Anarchists I have met would tell you that Anarchy is in fact the logical conclusion of Democracy) proposition. In fact a lot of the Libertarian rhetoric I hear coming out of the States has a distinct Anarchist flavour.
I have seen this point a lot -- especially from the leave side during the campaign. I doubt very much whether the remaining nations would do anything against the rules, but it is an exceptionally complex process which will be subject to a great deal of interpretation, My guess is that the remainers will want to make a show of strength and will likely sacrifice short term economic growth in order to furhter the political strategy of strengthening the Union (I don’t think it is a good strategy, but given the way in which the EU has treated the economic crisis the Greeks are struggling with, I am not at all confident that Economic good sense trumps the tendency for political posturing in the EU -- Sometimes I think that the we are our own worst enemies… ). And the smaller nations may well feel a sense of schadenfreude if they can kick one of the big boys on the way out.
Not really. Because it’s the other big players who will take what they can and they don’t leave much for the smaller countries anyway, so there’s no benefit for the smaller countries.
And a referendum is part of the democratic process, so yes, it is a democracy, because democracy isn’t just about selecting leaders. Just because we don’t like the result doesn’t make it not. Even when selecting leaders, ther’es no guarantee that the most appropriate leader will be selected even in a thoroughly democratic process (as thoroughly democratic as exists these days, that is). The campaign beforehand matters a lot, but getting into that informed/misinformed -> valid/invalid votes stuff just gets complicated.
rq #13
I think you are missing my point here. Your arguments are based on the premise that the various actors will act as rational agents in their own best interests. My point was the the likelihood is that they won’t. This will probably be a messy and ugly divorce and the worries in Caine’s original post may be well founded.