Can you define love? It’s not tangible. Is it measurable in any way? How do you know you love someone or something, and don’t say, “You just know.”
I feel a lot of love in my life for different people and different things, all for different reasons. I can describe love, but I can’t define it. Google kept using the term “affection” when I looked it up, but I wasn’t really satisfied with that. Why is something so meaningful so hard to put into words?
Have you heard this argument – how can you believe in love and not god? You can’t see or touch love just like you can’t see or touch god.
How do you answer that question?
First off, do you really believe in love? If so, what makes love believable and not god?
Obviously, I don’t believe in god but I do believe in love. Why is that? Where’s the evidence? What’s your best defense?
I don’t have a good answer. I think love is real because I can feel it, but many people would probably say the same about god.
Back me up – give me a definition of love. Why is love real and god isn’t?
The obvious response is: how can you believe in love if you don’t believe in Vishnu, Mithra, Odin, and Zeus.
Everyone can see that there is no reason to think that “love” points towards those specific deities, so how is Yahweh Elohim or Jesus or whatever any different?
If you believe in gravity, you must believe in the tooth fairy.
No, we believe in the invisible force of gravity because we observe its effects happening reproducibly in the real world. We believe in love because we both feel it and observe its effects in the real world.
But the various gods show no effects in the real world that are not also explained by the nature of the world including human nature. It’s not an argument for the Buddha.
What type of love? Many types. Presumably, Agape.
Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
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“Have you heard this argument – how can you believe in love and not god? You can’t see or touch love just like you can’t see or touch god.”
Of course. It’s a category error.
Love is an abstract concept, an entirely subjective one that only exists in people’s minds. It’s not like an actual, real thing external to the mind.
(God is of course something that only exists in goddists’ minds)
As someone who was not raised in a Christian environment I never got the attempt to conflate God with love. They are different, unrelated concepts. Even when I believed in a god I did not expect that god to love me, nor inspire love in me or anything related to love.
Love is about an interaction between people. You can observe how people behave towards one another and get an idea whether their interactions are evidence for love of one to the other or vice versa. What is the equivalent for god(s)/ess(es)? At most, you can say that belief in deity X inspires behavior Y, but that inspiration happens regardless of whether deity X actually exists, all that needs to happen is that someone has a particular belief about deity X.
I have seen zero evidence for any gods. I have lots of evidence for the love I get and the love I give. Any god that demands worship or it gives you eternal punishment is not a god that knows a damned thing about love. Ive been married for 42 years. If The Boss isnt in love with me she must be crazy. You would have to be crazy to put up with me for 42 years if you werent in love with me. Its a catch 22 type of situation I suppose.
IMO, love is one of those word people use without any capacity to define it. The huge range of behaviours people claim are motivated by love means it basically useless as a concept.
So I don’t believe in love, although I do believe that a specific person may have a qualia that they call love.
As for the second question, “love” motivates behaviours so it makes sense to say those qualia exist to the extent any emotions exist. Can’t say the same for god
I am autistic and aromantic, so I think about this weirdly
Except, in this case, that’s actually true. To the point that even asking the question “how do you know?” doesn’t make any sense. How do you know you’re hungry? How do you know you’re bored? How do you know anything about what is by definition a state of your own mind? It almost seems ludicrous to ask the question.
Flip the question: how do YOU know that *I* love something/someone? And don’t just say “you just know”. Because you can’t. There are a few ways. I could just, y’know… tell you I do. But I could be lying. You could observe my behaviour and conclude that I’ve demonstrated that I love that person/thing by the actions I perform in the real world… but I may be performing those actions for other reasons. You can’t ever know for sure.
Love – the subjective experience – is evidently “real” because practically everyone appears to understand the concept and practically everyone appears to experience it. We ALL agree it’s there, just like hunger or boredom.
“God”? Before I can answer that, I’m going to need you to define what you mean. And before you start – you’ll get lost in that definition. Nobody I’ve ever interacted with who was on the side of there being a god could ever satisfactorily define it in a way that didn’t self-contradict or make it obvious that it was just something going on in THEIR head but nobody else’s. Apart from anything else, there’s a big clue in the fact that although pretty much everyone can reasonably agree on a broad definition of “love”, it’s pretty hard to get even two Christians from more or less the same branch of Christianity to agree on what “god” actually means. That’s before you even get into the “why THAT god?” question.
I suspect that human nature comes ill equiped to understand fully either God or Love. And I suspect that understaning one may be the same as understanding the other, both of which remain outside the reach of natural reason.
Have you heard this argument – how can you believe in love and not god? You can’t see or touch love just like you can’t see or touch god.
Yes. Both are abstract concepts. So FWIW is Pi which is maths but intangible.
(The numerical thing rather than the Greek letter that is.) Ditto the notion of zero among other things.
First off, do you really believe in love? If so, what makes love believable and not god?
Evidence including lived experience but also physiologial and circumstantial evidence.
Love affects people and well as motivating them. Both love and god(s) require and have different definitions according to different folks.One confusing factor here is that a lot of people claim god(s) is (are) love which often is not reflected in their behaviour supposedly followed said god(s). Of course, there are similar issues with love which can be extremelty destructive too. So score 1 Aphrodite / Ishtar / Venus I guess?
Obviously, I don’t believe in god but I do believe in love. Why is that? Where’s the evidence? What’s your best defense?
Those that don’t belive in god still demonstrably love. Love things, love people. Love ideas. Love generally. Do I really need to cite evidence for that?
Can i use my own testimony and the way language works?
I don’t believe in any god(s) and there’s a whole lotta things and people I love in all sorts of ways..
give me a definition of love. Why is love real and god isn’t?
Love is an emotion with varying levels and intensities and pysiological and pyschological impacts.
God is a putative supernatual diety or set of dieties.
Nothing supernatural exists – natch! (Naturally!)
Abstract concepts do exist in the intangible sense that we feel and can logically understand them and consistently explain and use them reasonably.
Not sure this is sufficient. First approximation but hope it helps.
Hope like love of course is an intangible emotion and sometimes hard to reasonably explain. its the “vibe.”” Based on vibrations which are grounded in reality. Which god, yeah, kinda ain’t.
Sorry I’m tired now.
PS. Come to think of it both the letter Pi and the mathematical notion of Pi are abstract notions albiet the letter can be physically written and described. As can Pi be written down albeit always incompletely only to certian decimals of its infinite value.
Semiotics huh? How do they work and does that exist too or all just in our minds? Significance?
See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics
Shorter summary :
Love is an emotion. We know emotions exist because we can feel them and have circumstantial as well as lived experience of them. Ordinary claim.
God is a hypothetical contested supernatural entity. Extraordinary claim. Therefore extraordinary evidence required.
Almost all people accept that love exists in some form.
Not all people accept that god exists in some form with many either uncertain gods exist (agnostic) or certain god does not exist. (Athiest – extreme.)
Only certain people -deists contend that any god(s) exist and they cannot agree amongst themsleves & are mutually contradictory therefore .. what is most likely and plausible?
No god(s).
(Inside nutshell – metaphorically typing.)
If any supernatural diety (or dieties plural) does exist then what are the odds that they actually want us to know about them given their lack of clarity and communication with us? What evidence of them actually existing in reality is there?
Dangnabbit, I did say “shorter”, didn’t I? D’oh! Its too late ./ early a.m., I’m too tired, But still..