Yeah, another SpaceX “Starship” exploded in a test flight. I think space exploration is a great thing, but the fact that an evil, inane MAGAt is running it and exploiting it and promoting it with lies means I’m enjoying the fireworks. I’d rather not.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
He has thoughtfully provided us with a key visual metaphor for the current administration at least.
A rapid, unscheduled disassembly. Unlike the USA, which is a rapid, scheduled disassembly.
Yeah, that SpaceX explosion is regrettable…
…that Musk wasn’t aboard at the the time.
I like the idea of space flight becoming more affordable. But now that Musk has shown it can be done, he can go huff a lethal dose of whatever he is using.
And each time tens of thousands of tons of probably toxic trash are scattered into the ocean and on the islands, and into the atmosphere.
…and I have been a space flight enthusiast since age five, when I got a well illustrated book showing the Apollo program (Xmas 1966). For me to say “enough is enough” about Musk is going against a lifetime of rocket enthusiasm.
cartomancer @1: Godfrey Reggio and Philip Glass provided a similar metaphor for our society in 1982. One of my favourite films.
Snarki, child of Loki @3:
And here I was, thinking “at least nobody was in that craft when it exploded”. Thanks for that correction. Now I find myself wishing that three other people were riding shotgun at the time.
It hasn’t been a good day oer two in space exploration with not just the latest Starship blow up but also the failures of the AstroForge Odin mission* :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AstroForge#Odin_(Brokkr-2)
to a Near Earth Asteroid getting lost in space :
Source : https://www.space.com/space-exploration/private-spaceflight/hope-is-all-but-lost-for-private-asteroid-probe-in-deep-space-the-chance-of-talking-with-odin-is-minimal
Plus the latest Moon landing with the Athena craft from Intuitive Machines also seems to have NOT gone quite to plan and likely tipped over :
Source : https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/another-private-lunar-lander-has-touched-down-on-the-moon-but-its-condition-is-unknown
I try to separate SpaceX extraordionary record-breaking, pioneering private space agency that works & builds wonders from its nazi douchebag DOGE-running boss Musk who, well, see previous adjectives. Know that ain’t always easy for everyone to do. I wish SpaceX was run by someone much better.
.* Sadly, I find myself now automatically suspecting those preferring Norse mythology of reichwing / wjhite supremacist tendencies? Is that fair? I don’t know of any connection with reichwing politics or racist culture with AstroForge so quite probly is unfair but.. dunno.
“The chance of talking with Odin is minimal…”
Well, yeah. Now I want somebody to launch a spacecraft called Jehovah, lose it, and say the same.
Randy Rainbow can lessen the pain a bit.
I feel bad for all the lost science, but the rocket exploding is an excellent turn of events for pissing off multiple rich and powerful groups of people.
It’s a great way to make them question the basic competence of the owner of xcompany, who just blew up millions of dollars of technology and years of work. .
——
Tolkien was very interested in the Norse language and mythology and managed to not be fascist. On the other end of the spectrum is the maga shaman dude, with his bizarre mixture of faux Norse and Native American elements. The cult of Odin is very much a hyper-masculine, super-soldier worldview, so it does appeal to the macho blowhards of this age.
The Nazis liked it too, though their added white purity Aryan nonsense is not found in the Norse Sagas.
If they had read more, they might have figured out that the archetypal Grim Reaper /Odin starts wars with the goal of harvesting those warriors to build his army for the final war between the Gods.
Tethys, wishful thinking. Were that the case, it would have happened by now, after a number of such explosions. Boom!
cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Starship_launches#Past_launches
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Context matters.
It’s true that spazX blows up a lot, but that is not the only area where the ketamine addled tycoon is grossly incompetent.
@10. Pierce R. Butler : I hear what you did there! (Under 3 mins long.)
Scott Manley’s analysis here – SpaceX Make The Same Mistake Twice With Starship Flight 8 15 mins long.
“Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Context matters.”
Seriously, Tethys? Wow.
(Context, eh? Correlation and causation, tricky shit, that)
Please clarify how this time “the rocket exploding is an excellent turn of events for pissing off multiple rich and powerful groups of people”, though that was not the case for those earlier booms.
(They featured on this very blog!)
—
Oh yes, grossly incompetent. Quite obvious, really.
(You surely don’t engage in wishful thinking, do you? ;)
Talking about gross incompetence, Jeff Bezos’ New Shepard, Elon Musk’s Starship, and Richard Branson’s SpaceShipTwo are the penis rocket billionaire club’s constituency. But only SpaceX is in the news.
PPS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9#Launch_history
Right there with you, PZ.
@9. Plus there’s also this recent lunar failure for NASA too :
Source : https://www.space.com/space-exploration/missions/nasa-lunar-trailblazer-moon-probe-spinning-low-power-future-looks-grim
Earth’s Moon seems to be fast catching up to Mars as a spaceprobe killing world.
@ 18. John Morales : ” Jeff Bezos’ New Shepard, Elon Musk’s Starship, and Richard Branson’s SpaceShipTwo are the penis rocket billionaire club’s constituency. But only SpaceX is in the news.”
FWIW The last launch of New Shepard was on the 25th feb and was a successful flight (mission #31 for that rocket) but carried no big names into space. As Apollo13 pre-tank stir explosion proved, routine undramatic successful flights aren’t considered newsworthy sadly. I think the planned fligh t#31 launching Katy Perry (yes, that Katy Perry) among other space tourists will get a lot more publicity! See :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Shepard#Flight_list
Branson’s SpaceShipTwo is no longer be flying – note the tense in its wikipage and “..The final flight of Unity was Galactic 07 on 8 June 2024.”
Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceShipTwo
There were only two of those spaceplanes ever built VVS Enterprise which crashed and was destroyed in October 2014 and VVS Unity which has been retired with other ships planned but seemingly unfinished and never flown. Likewise the new class of Branson’s spaceplanes have been cnacelled and aren’t flying :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceShip_III
Which I think is a big shame because they were quite different and promising and I did hope they’d work and fly. Not sure what stopped them from being built and flown yet.
Ahem, StevoR.
Context matters. Or so I am told.
So. Perhaps they are not quite as grossly incompetent as Musk?
Thus their comparative lack of success.
(I was being sarcastic, was it not obvious?)
Oh, roight. Sorry, right.
“Falcon 9 is a partially reusable, two-stage-to-orbit, medium-lift launch vehicle[a] designed and manufactured in the United States by SpaceX.” — from my link above.
(You know how you can tell when someone is clueless? Well, that)
@birgerjohansson:
… especially since Gwynne Shotwell is the actual brains behind SpaceX’s engineering work anyway. Musk is just the money man. Or rather, now that SpaceX is a mature and profitable firm rather than a startup, an expensive boondoggle.
The first-stage booster performed flawlessly. It was just bankrolled by the wrong guy.
Robber Barons were highly profitable too.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/musk-works-slash-federal-spending-firms-received-billions/story?id=118589121
“Robber Barons were highly profitable too.”
Oh, yeah, baby! Profit ever so incompetently!
“As Musk works to slash federal spending, his own firms have received billions in government contracts”
Part of his grossly incompetent machinations, obs.
(Competent people don’t receive those billions of dollars, right?)
From your article, Tethys:
“Some ethics experts have voiced concerns about potential conflicts of interests that could arise from Musk’s deep business ties with the federal government and the influence he has in the Trump administration. But the public may never know the true extent of Musk’s business relationship with the government, because he was hired as what’s known as a “special government employee.””
Such gross incompetence!
(Mind you, it’s only “Some ethics experts”, so… disputed by other ethics experts, no?)
Me: “Please clarify how this time “the rocket exploding is an excellent turn of events for pissing off multiple rich and powerful groups of people”, though that was not the case for those earlier booms.”
Tethys: “He profits greatly from his government contracts”
Mmmhmm. That’s not all that convincing, is it?
(I notice your avoidance, Tethys)
John, kindly fuck off with your pathetic attempts to start a pointless argument.
Hmm. Maybe if you organized your attempts to start an argument into a single coherent thought, rather than these scattershot blasts of complaints, one after the other, it would be less annoying. For future reference, if you make one comment, and then make two or three more immediately afterwards to introduce variants of your concerns, you’re doing it wrong.
It’s also baseless to accuse someone of avoiding your argument 12 minutes after you make it. This isn’t a live video debate.
StevoR–
Much as I respect their engineering, I have no particular wish for SpaceX to succeed. Much better if the money siphoned off from NASA over the last 20 years was put back into public-owned space exploration, preferably as international co-operative efforts.
I hope PZ doesn’t consider me creating scattershot blasts of complaints.
I applaud responsible technological innovation. However, the felonious muskrat (with his self-styled philosophy of ‘move fast and break things’) has never been responsible. People ooh and aaah his tesla EVs reducing pollution. HOWEVER, his space ventures have caused more pollution of the atmosphere and ocean than his cars could ever likely offset.
Numerous articles I’ve read lately say he always rushes into trying to implement his ‘ideas’ without being responsible toward the environment or the people caught in his many ‘debris paths’.
He has used his starlink as a weapon to harm Ukraine. It appears that his thousands of starlink satellites are becoming a threat to other orbiting devices. One article (I have not been able to verify) said that many of those tiny satellites are falling to earth, causing pollution. And, having looked into it myself, I find Starlink to be hugely, unjustifiably expensive and cumbersome to setup with limited connectivity.
One more snippet I just read supporting my assertions above said that of 8 attempts of his ‘starship’, 4 of them failed explosively. I would think that would make astronauts think twice.
[meta]
Where was that?
The evasion was re my #17 at 7:11 pm, and I noted it @29 at 3:20 am.
That’s a lot more than 12 minutes. It’s 8 hours and 9 minutes.
There was another post by Tethys in between, so it’s not like she had no opportunity to do so.
Much as I hate to repeat what I feel is an inherently conservative argument, I do feel it’s worth everyone remembering that every time you see one of these things explode into a shower of sparklers you might as well be watching a bale of dollar bills being blown to smithereens. SpaceX is supposed to be a private company, but if all your contracts are government funded you’re running on tax money all the same.
1, 2, 3.
John Morales
8 March 2025 at 3:08 am
John Morales
8 March 2025 at 3:16 am
John Morales
8 March 2025 at 3:20 am
20 minute timespan.
OK, I hear you. Too many consecutive comments.
Good point and well known.
SpaceX is largely a creation of NASA and the Federal government.
It is $22.6 billion for SpaceX in Federal government subsidies and contracts and Tesla has received $15.7 billion.
Musk isn’t trying to bite the hand that feeds.
He is trying to kill the whole being.
No surprise.
I’ve never heard of anyone who has dealt with Elon Musk and didn’t end up regretting it. That is especially true for his breeding stock baby factories.
Too many baseless accusations, period. My ‘evasion’ is entirely due to me refusing to reward John’s negative attention seeking.
“One more snippet I just read supporting my assertions above said that of 8 attempts of his ‘starship’, 4 of them failed explosively. I would think that would make astronauts think twice.”
The first explosion (boom!) did not.
Nor the second, or the third.
Therefore, it must be four times lucky.
“I feel bad for all the lost science, but the rocket exploding is an excellent turn of events for pissing off multiple rich and powerful groups of people.”
Same thing exactly. We surely can expect a different result, this time.
@32. chrislawson
I think there’s a place for both and SpaceX has achieved remarkable things that other private companies haven’t and really developed technology that ultimately everyone will benefit from. I don’t think it has to be either / or but both / and here when it comes to NASA / SpaceX, Public / private space groups.
I don’t want Musk to suceed but I do want SpaceX to and I do make that distinction. as noted before I really wish someone better was in charge of SpaceX too.
Ahem.
“SpaceX was founded by Elon Musk in 2002 with a vision of decreasing the costs of space launches, paving the way to a sustainable colony on Mars.”
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX)
His baby.
@ ^ John Morales : One of his many babies metaphorically speaking given his literal ones are numerous and, um, used as human shields apparently whilst otherwise mistreated & neglected eg his first surviving daughter.
Source : https://www.distractify.com/p/why-does-musk-always-have-his-son-with-him
SpaceX was Musk’s fave “baby” once and I do have to give him credit for helping it suceed but lately his main “baby” seems to be, well, first Twitter- X and turning that into a nazi cesspool and most recently DOGE and ru(i)nning the USoA. Musk didn’t use to be as extreme and as bad as he’s become and when he was a space visionary trying to develop rocket and spacecraft tech he was pretty awesome. Sure wish he’d stayed like that and kept his focus on that and getting to Mars rather than reshaping the planet here for the worse.
It does seem likes Musk has degenerated and self-radicalised into a much worse human being or maybe exposed more of his character flaws in becoming not just the richest person on the planet but. oneof the most dangerous, harmful and most evil people in the world too.
Some would
Yes. He has started multiple companies.
Where his literal children come into it regarding the featured explosion is left to the imagination.
Care to tell me more about these children who allegedly are human shields, and how that relates to the explosive disassembly thing featured in the OP?
The swasticar maker is having a very bad day today, between being the biggest loser in the S&P 500, and the kind attentions of some hackers who are “apolitically “ taking down Xitter.
A brief sample of current headlines;
Musk Loses Billions as Tesla Shares get Hammered.
Wall Street is Turning its Back on Elon Musk
Tesla Stock Plunges after Musk Alienates Consumers.
FAFO that civil disobedience is the usual cure for tyranny. Hopefully we won’t get to the guillotine phase, but I don’t mind muskrat in the role of Marie Antoinette.
Tesla isn’t SpaceX.
@45. John Morales : “Yes. He has started multiple companies. Where his literal children come into it regarding the featured explosion is left to the imagination.”
You referred to SpaceX as Musk’s baby. That’s where it comes into it here. Musk’s actual babies are, well, literal babies and yeah, he doesn’t seem to treat them or the partners he has them with very well further revealing what a total douche he is :
Plus from same article :
Source : https://www.distractify.com/p/elon-musk-child-medical-crisis
Musks’own father who admittedly has his own issues has said :
Source : https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/errol-elon-musk-bad-dad-b2698486.html
Then of course we’ve had thsi previous post and discussion right here on Pharyngula
Elon Musk’s disowned daughter, Vivian Wilson, is spilling all the tea about her horrible, absent father.
“I understand your new angle is this “western values/ christian family man” thing but it’s such a weird choice. You are not a family man, you are a serial adulterer who won’t stop fucking lying about your own children. “ – Vivian Wilson, Musk’s oldest daughter.
Source : https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2024/08/06/good-god-i-pray-that-my-children-like-me-a-little-bit/
“You referred to SpaceX as Musk’s baby.”
Mr Hyperliteral, I’ve been told.
But yes, he created it, he nurtured it, he has been its boss all along.
“When it comes to Elon Musk as a father [etc]”
Yes, yes. Such a terrible person!
You too evade the point.
“I really wish someone better was in charge of SpaceX too”, is what you wrote.
I said it was his baby.
Now you talk about his biological children and his fatherhood style and whatnot.
Point is, SpaceX is what it is due to him, all the way, despite your vacuous attempt at denigration about it.
Hey, you are aware that Starlink is part of SpaceX, no?
So is Falcon.
(People forget that a lot, much as they forget Tesla makes solar roofs and batteries and other shit, not just cars)
Anyway, picking the very sourest cherries is not a hobby I advocate.
@ ^
Captain. I’ll thank you not to trivialize all the work I’ve put in to lampoon your clownishness.
Anyway, Morales, given your fawning fanboishness with Musk, can you explain to us what you love so much?
Do you regard him as:super smart? Super clever? Why, when anyone even remotely criticizes Musk, do you rush to mention his vast wealth, as though that’s some sort or rebuttal (rather than an indictment)?
Sure. I like nothing whatsoever about Musk, never mind “love”.
Thing is, I have a thing about improper criticism, no less than a respect for the truth.
(You wouldn’t get that, of course)
@ ^ Silentbob : I’m still wondering if you’ll ever answer my question asked in previous threads & as far as I’m aware yet to be answered over whether you’d be willing to leave John Morales alone and not respond to his comments. Can I have an answer to that please?
@ 49. John Morales : “But yes, he created it, he nurtured it, he has been its boss all along.”
Yes. That’s a fair point. He was the founder and did a lot to make Space X suceed early on. I’ll give him credit for that. Iwish itwas still his focus today.
Did I deny or denigrate that? I noted in #44 & #48 that it’s one of his babies & that he treats his actual human babies – children – badly. The alter is a separate topic but riffs off your terminology. The former si undeniable and when peopel say Musk now SpaceX is probly NOt the firts thing that comes to mind. Sadly for Musk and his reputation.
What exactly is your point here that I’m evading or not getting? Could you tell us in a sentence or three?
THe latter not alter for what I noted in #44 & 48. Typo natch.
“Did I deny or denigrate that?”
Indeed you did: “I really wish someone better was in charge of SpaceX too”.
I literally quoted that, and you still felt you had to ask.
(He is less than ‘better’ in your estimation, no?)
“What exactly is your point here that I’m evading or not getting?”
That he’s evidently good enough that SpaceX itself impresses you, but you wish someone better were at the helm. Someone who had not actually started it, but who would run it better. Right?
(There you go. Three sentences)
@ ^ John Morales : Elon Musk is a problem in that he has become an open fascist – literally sieg heiling and supporting reichwing extremism. He’s degenerated from what he used to be when he founded and focused on SpaceX. He’s changed dramatically for the worse.
So, yes, my view now is that he is much less than “better” and indeed has become a very dangerous and evil man who is now focused now on SpaceX but imposing his sadistic and sociopathic form of Tech-Bro Fascist feudalism on us all. I want him gone now because of the immense damage he is doing.
I don’t think he’s helping SpaceX much anymore indeed I think he hurts it by associating himself with it.
I think SpaceX would be a lot better off under new ownership with a new boss that enables them to keep doing what they are doing but in a few better ways addressing some of the issues of reckless rule-breaking in terms of environmental responsibility, safety, worker’s rights, etc … there.
Musk was good and did impress me once. Past tense. He doesn’t anymore. He’s changed – see section above.
SpaceX OTOH, I’m still very impressed with and awed by. They have worked wonders, built and flown wonders and I love that.
Correct. Yes. yes I do.
^ Fix : That’s :
Musk has become a very dangerous and evil man who is NOT focused on SpaceX now but rather is focused on imposing his sadistic and sociopathic form of Tech-Bro Fascist feudalism on us all.