Some loss of privacy accompanies being a public figure


Explain something to me.

Doxxing is bad, OK? If someone doesn’t want their identity published, you should respect their privacy.

Death threats are bad, OK? As someone who has received many, I can assure you, you shouldn’t do that. If I get a death threat, it doesn’t justify me making them. Or you. Unfortunately, there are bad people in every group who are quick to rage.

So, JK Rowling accuses people of doxxing her and sending her death threats. That’s bad, OK? I don’t think the death threats are legitimate grounds to complain about a whole group, like trans men and women. Some of them are assholes, obviously, but the majority would never do that, just as the fact that some cis people threaten trans folk does not imply that all cis people are murderous monsters. Just some of them.

But the doxxing accusation baffles me. The protesters — 3 whole people — took a photo of themselves that included her house in the background. She’s turning that into an accusation. I don’t get it.

Here’s a whole photo essay published in the Mirror. Photographs inside and out of her $2.2 million pound Killiechassie estate near Edinburgh. Is that doxxing?

Here’s a breathless video tour of her Killiechassie estate. It’s kind of terrible, just using publicly available video, and also the narrator pronounces Edinburgh “eden-berg”. Is that doxxing?

All of her homes are discussed in this Wikipedia article, including the dates she bought them, when she applied for remodeling permits, it’s pretty detailed (not that I care at all). Did Wikipedia dox her?

I think this is nothing but a case of a TERF reaching for victimhood status again, while also grasping at a cudgel to harm the transes.

Comments

  1. birgerjohansson says

    Microraptor @1
    The heavy footfalls you hear are…Mecha JK Rowling! Don’t let her enter South Park.

  2. BACONSQAUDgaming says

    I remember a counsellor discussing how you can say all the nice things you want, but as soon as you hit say “BUT”, it immediately erases the effect of those.

    I’m going to assume that she was talking about her London home, and there is a big difference between mentioning the neighborhood, and giving an actual address. You must have spent a lot of time going through those 315 references to find one that gave her London address. I gave up after a couple of minutes trying to find which reference you were referring to. Having it on Twitter would have been much easier.

    I notice you didn’t mention her response to this…about not stalking or harassing women??

    I still find it funny that in a country that is all about “freedom” and “free speech”, that if you express an opinion (with justifying reasons) that others don’t like, that you are automatically vilified as a terf, transphobe, islamophobe, etc. It seems to me to be just a way of shutting down discussion.

    Bertrand Russell said: “If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.”

  3. Ada Christine says

    @4

    funny how when trans people rightly point out transphobia it not only fails to shut down conversation, but it brings in more garbage-tier takes

    “i don’t give a fuck about Bertrand Russel quotes given in dubious context”
    – Ada Christine, 2021

  4. naturalistguy says

    Here’s the address, which seems to have been inadvertently left out of the original post:

    Platform 9 ¾ , Kings Cross Station. (To enter, run really fast, head first, at the concrete wall between Platform’s 9 and 10.)

    Have fun storming the castle!

  5. raven says

    Bertrand Russell said: “If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do.”

    Oh. A deepity. A superficial quote that sounds good and proves nothing.

    “…when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.”― Richard Dawkins

    JK Rowling is just wrong on a lot of things. So are you.

    BTW, Bertrand Russel is wrong here as well.
    Some of the contemporary opinions that make me/us angry include; women are stupid and inferior, nonwhites are inferior, Trump has a brain, the Covid-19 virus vaccines are part of the Globalist’s New World Order to kill most of the earth’s population, the Holocaust never happened, the earth is flat, that we should bring back the Dark Ages so that trolls are free to roam the information superhighway without criticism, and many many more.
    A lot of opinions are reprehensible and definitely worth getting angry about.

  6. BACONSQAUDgaming says

    @7 The problem with all of your examples of opinions is that they are absolutes, without defining metrics. For example, saying Some people are stupid and inferior, might hurt someone’s feelings, but could be factual if you adequately define what constitutes stupid or inferior. (Noting that the same person could be inferior in one metric and superior in another). Yes it is possible for one side to be wrong, but that doesn’t mean they are. I could have posted the entire Russell quote, which elaborates on his reasoning, but I’ll leave it up to you to look it up.
    Yes, a lot of opinions are reprehensible, but when we disagree, that opens up an avenue for discussion, debate, and potentially changing minds.
    I will assume you have read and understand the reasons for Rowling’s opinions. I will assume you find them reprehensible. I might disagree with you, and we could have a discussion about who has the better argument. Just shutting the discussion down by calling her, or me, names does not accomplish anything productive other than virtue signaling.

  7. raven says

    stupid troll concern trolling.

    Just shutting the discussion down by calling her, or me, names does not accomplish anything productive other than virtue signaling.

    You are a brain dead troll.

    Some people are beyond the reach of facts, logic, and reason.
    That is you and tens of millions of other people in the USA.
    When you realize that, the best thing to do is not waste any more of your time and effort.

    We’ve all seen this for our entire lives.
    Creationists, fundie xians, Nazis, racists, antivaxxers, anti-feminists, forced birthers/female slavers, etc..
    At that point, all you can do is watch out for them as they have hostile intentions, and can be dangerous.

  8. says

    @bacon #9:

    Stuff it, you’re not bringing anything new to the table. We’ve had this argument a million times before. You keep resenting your shitty views and we keep on dismissing them. This boils down to some basic core values, and there’s no middle ground there. You’re wrong and we’re done.

  9. says

    Those links I gave? They’re on the first page of results I got searching for “JK Rowling home”. You’re exaggerating the difficulty of finding the address. I even found a link with a map!
    Also, about your stupid Russell quote: nobody was expressing anger, either in my post or the comments. The only angry person in the story is JK Rowling. And maybe you, projecting, as well as sealioning.

  10. Ada Christine says

    @9

    and how exactly do we decide who has a better argument? popular consensus? arm wrestling contest?

  11. naturalistguy says

    It should be noted that none of those links actually reveal the address of J.K. Rowling’s home in Edinburgh, not London or Killiechassie. Anyone with enough time and effort could probably come up with the address but that’s not really the issue. What is it then? It’s strangers showing up on your doorstep where you and your family live and hanging around that’s the problem. I’m old enough to remember when John Lennon was murdered that Mark David Chapman showed up in front of the Dakota and had Lennon sign a copy of his new LP Double Fantasy before John and Yoko left, and when they returned to their home Chapman was again there and shot Lennon to death. I think Rowling is justifiably concerned for her own safety and the safety of her family, and doesn’t want strangers routinely hanging around her home’s front door.

  12. raven says

    “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ― Harlan Ellison

    Proverbs 18:2 Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions.

    There you go.
    A battle of the memes.

    This sort of thing belongs on an intellectual slum like Facebook.

  13. says

    The JerK (aka the Rotten Harpy) calls the protest a “rape threat” while inciting her rabid followers to violence the way Fox Nuisance does.

    This is why I call them gender hypocritical.

  14. says

    Amazing how these sorts of threads bring out the sycophants for billionaires, who occupy high-walled compounds with private security firms employed 24/7 to keep unwanted visitors on the outside…

    The whole thing is a beat-up, as PZ pointed out. And entirely counterproductive too; the Streisand Effect being in full swing means that orders of magnitude more people are aware of the billionaire’s various properties.

    As for the threat of a single trans activist (as two of the three who protested are drag artists and cis), well if these people turned up on my doorstep, I’d be rightly terrified. A sign with “Trans Liberation Now” being waved at me would likely send my heart into palpitations, and the idea of “Trans Rights Are Human Rights” is about as threatening as your average dormouse.

  15. says

    The intelligent young at the present day [1930] are probably happier in Russia than anywhere else in the world. They have there a new world to create, and an ardent faith in accordance with which to create it. The old have been executed, starved, exiled, or in some other way disinfected, so that they cannot, as in every Western country, compel the young to choose between doing harm and doing nothing. To the sophisticated Occidental the faith of the young Russian may seem crude, but after all, what is there to be said against it? He is creating a new world; the new world is to his liking; the new world will almost certainly, when created, make the average Russian happier than he was before the Revolution…. By any pragmatic test, therefore, the faith of young Russia is justified, and to condemn it as crude can have no justification except on a basis of theory.

    The decline of the birth rate in the population at large has reached a point which shows that the population will soon begin to dwindle, but among the well-to-do classes this point was long ago passed, not only in one country, but in practically all the most highly civilized countries…. There can be no doubt that the civilization produced by the white races has this singular characteristic that in proportion as men and women absorb it, they become sterile. The most civilized are the most sterile; the least civilized are the most fertile; and between the two there is a continual gradation. At present the most intelligent sections of the Western nations are dying out. Within a very few years the Western nations as a whole will be diminishing in numbers except in so far as their stocks are replenished by immigration from less civilized regions. And as soon as the immigrants acquire the civilization of the country of their adoption, they in turn will become comparatively sterile. It is clear that a civilization which has this characteristic is unstable; unless it can be induced to reproduce its numbers, it must sooner or later die out and give place to some other civilization in which the urge towards parenthood has retained enough strength to prevent the population from declining.

    It is necessary, therefore, if the white races are to survive, that parenthood should again become capable of yielding happiness to parents.

    Bertrand Russell

    This has been today’s episode of Brilliant People Saying Stupid-Ass Shit.

  16. says

    Pink News – “It’s a tragedy that 2021 is the most deadly year for trans people on record – but not a surprise”:

    …While better reporting and increasing awareness of both transphobia and transphobic violence are both likely to be contributing to the increase in numbers each year, it’s also true that there has been an increase in the number of trans people reported killed each year since records began being kept.

    And everywhere in the world, the trans people who are most affected by this violence are women: 96 per cent of those murdered in the last year were trans women or trans feminine people….

  17. says

    CBS – “2021 marks the deadliest year yet for transgender people in the U.S., advocacy group says”:

    This year’s Transgender Day of Remembrance comes amid a grim milestone in the LGBTQ community. According to the Human Rights Campaign, 2021 was the deadliest year yet for those who are transgender or non-binary, with at least 47 people killed since January 1.

    Human Rights Campaign unveiled the latest numbers on Thursday, when 36-year-old Angel Naira became the 47th transgender or gender non-conforming person violently killed this year. Naira, according to HRC, was found fatally shot in her Pennsylvania home on November 11.

    Naira’s death marks the fifth reported instance of fatal violence towards a transgender or gender-non conforming person in Pennsylvania in 2021, HRC said, the most in any U.S. state or territory. Earlier this year, siblings Jeffrey “JJ” Bright, 16, who was transgender, and Jasmine Cannady, 22, who was non-binary, were killed in the Keystone State, according to HRC.

    In 2020, six transgender or gender non-conforming people were killed in Puerto Rico, the most of any U.S. state or territory that year.

    While 47 is the highest annual number of transgender people killed in the U.S. to date, HRC noted that the true toll could be even higher, as “too often these deaths go unreported — or misreported.” Most of the victims are women of color.

    Reported cases of violence against transgender and non-binary individuals has escalated in recent years. Prior to this year, 2020 saw the highest number of deaths, HRC said, when 44 transgender or non-binary people were killed. HRC started tracking violence against transgender people in 2013.

    On Saturday, President Biden issued a statement marking the annual Transgender Day of Remembrance and lamenting the “horrifying acts of violence.”

    “Each of these lives was precious. Each of them deserved freedom, justice, and joy,” Mr. Biden said. “…Transgender people are some of the bravest Americans I know. But no person should have to be brave just to live in safety and dignity. Today, we remember. Tomorrow — and every day — we must continue to act.”

    The year of deadly violence comes after a surge in legislation seeking to limit access to sports and health care for transgender children. Mr. Biden specifically called out those efforts in his statement on Saturday, saying that lawmakers need to “combat the disturbing proliferation of discriminatory state legislation.”

    Between the start of 2020 to April of this year, more than 75 bills specifically targeted transgender youth were introduced. Several more have been proposed since.

    “These bills are nothing more than bullying disguised as legislation, they are un-American, and they endanger the safety and well-being of our children,” Mr. Biden said….

  18. says

    Related to Edinburgh estates and persecution…from Federici’s Caliban and the Witch (p. 171):

    It is significant that, in England, most of the witch trials occurred in Essex, where by the 16th century the bulk of the land had been enclosed, while in those regions of the British Isles where land privatization had neither occurred nor was on the agenda we have no record of witch-hunting. The most outstanding examples in this context are Ireland and the Scottish Western Highlands, where no trace can be found of the persecution, likely because a collective land-tenure system and kinship ties still prevailed in both areas that precluded the communal divisions and the type of complicity with the state that made a witch-hunt possible. Thus – while in the Anglicized and privatized Scottish Lowlands, where the subsistence economy was vanishing under the impact of the Presbyterian Reformation, the witch-hunt claimed at least 4,000 victims, the equivalent of one percent of the female population – in the Highlands and in Ireland, women were safe during the witch-burning times.

  19. Silentbob says

    @ 7 naturalistguy

    For those who don’t know, naturalistguy is here ripping off an actual tweet calling on trans people to commit suicide and dressing it up as a “joke” – Rowling’s response was to laugh. If there were any doubt Rowling is an utterly loathsome scumbag, that tweet alone proves it to be so.

    @ 14 naturalistguy

    Anyone with enough time and effort could probably come up with the address but that’s not really the issue.

    Indeed I found three different photos of fans posing outside the exact same entrance as the trans rights protesters, going back to 2015 or 16, with a simple Google, showing the address (which is clearly printed to the left of the gate). Rowling never had any problem with that. Suddenly, when she can play the victim and demonise trans people, it’s a problem. Out of deference to the billionaire bigot I won’t post links, but here’s a blog post from someone who found the same.

    What is it then? It’s strangers showing up on your doorstep where you and your family live and hanging around that’s the problem. I’m old enough to remember when John Lennon was murdered… blah, blah, blah…

    This was a protest by three people against her appalling transphobia to mark Transgender Day of Remembrance. Do they look like they’re trying to be inconspicuous? They didn’t try to contact her, didn’t do anything to vandalise her property, didn’t threaten in any way, they stood on a public sidewalk holding placards. What the fuck does this have to do with murder?

  20. Silentbob says

    @ 14 naturalistguy, continued…

    I think Rowling is justifiably concerned for her own safety and the safety of her family, and doesn’t want strangers routinely hanging around her home’s front door.

    “Her home’s front door”, X-D Mate it’s a three story, 31 room mansion, with the front door very, very far from the gate, and 30 foot hedges surrounding the perimeter and shielding it from view. It’s literally a fucking castle. I could literally link you to a listing of it on a website of famous castles – in fact I will, without telling you which one it is – again out of deference to the billionaire bigoted scumbag, and the listing includes a fucking Google Maps satellite view, and states the exact latitude and longitude!

    And do you know what the billionaire’s revenge on the three harmless people who peacefully protested her transphobia was? To sic her 14 fucking million twitter followers on them, knowing they would be deluged with rape and death threats from her fellow transphobic bigots. So much for her alleged concern about people’s safety. How long until one of those protesters is tracked down and gets a Molotov cocktail through the window from one of her bigoted mates? And if you think I’m exaggerating the level of transphobic hatred in the UK as present, I certainly am not. It’s beyond me how you can conceivably defend this total asshole who has decided to launch a second career persecuting a tiny, powerless minority who have never done her the slightest harm.

  21. Derek Vandivere says

    I was thinking just the other day about how weird it must seem to people who didn’t grow up with them that a lot of us grew up with the white pages publishing almost everyone’s address and phone number…

  22. says

    Silentbob @ #25:

    “Her home’s front door”, X-D Mate it’s a three story, 31 room mansion, with the front door very, very far from the gate, and 30 foot hedges surrounding the perimeter and shielding it from view.

    LOL:

    …The last time [“these massive plants”] needed to be extensively trimmed (in 2015) it took three days, involved cherry pickers, and the council had to put up temporary traffic lights to allow the work to be carried out safely which caused delays and tailbacks in the area.

    “The hedges are obviously to stop people looking into her property,” one neighbour told the Telegraph.

    “It’s just taking ages for them to cut the bush back. The gardeners have been here three days and have finished the front of the garden.

    “It’s chaos around there. The lights are taking too long to change, especially on the side roads. There is long queues tailing back from the lights.”

    The hedges are now due to be tended to again as they’ve since enveloped two street lights….

  23. says

    sez baconsquadgaming @4:

    I remember a counsellor discussing how you can say all the nice things you want, but as soon as you hit say “BUT”, it immediately erases the effect of those.

    That’s for sentiments which fit the general pattern I don’t support X, but in this case X is totes correct.

    What PZ did is more like, I don’t support doxxing, but I don’t see how this constitutes “doxxing”. Not real sure what your deal is, but given the context provided by your further comments in this thread, I might be able to make a deduction or two…

  24. Silentbob says

    This is so comical, I had to share. Friend of the blog, Oolon, discovered that if you just type, “jk rowling” into Google Maps the address comes up. The reason is, apparently it’s also her registered business address. I’m in Australia so I tested it and I had to type, “j k rowling publisher edinburgh”, but sure enough it comes right up with the full address and a street view showing the gate where the protesters stood.

    So much for the super sekrit castle.

  25. says

    He wasn’t a friend of the blog, at that point; a few of the pointed things that astute commenters like A. Noyd and SallyStrange had to say at the time eventually sank in, he abandoned his fence-sitting, and ended up choosing a side. His reform was enough to be admitted into the very small number of banned commenters allowed to reappear, as for example here. Which is more than can be said of any of the Slymepitters, who are still out there being horrible people years down the track…

  26. BACONSQAUDgaming says

    @PZ “Those links I gave? They’re on the first page of results I got searching for “JK Rowling home”. ”

    I was referring to your “All of her homes are discussed in this Wikipedia article, including the dates she bought them, when she applied for remodeling permits, it’s pretty detailed (not that I care at all). Did Wikipedia dox her?”. I went to the Wikipedia page you linked. I assumed that that was where you got the information.

    Incidentally, JK Rowling hasn’t lost her touch. I highly recommend “The Christmas Pig”. It is an interesting and engaging story, with tear-jerker twists, and a heart-warming ending. The chapters are all short, which makes it good for reading to young children, or on the toilet for adults.

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