TREASON


Ilhan Omar is writing up articles of impeachment, which is fine, but far too polite.

Meanwhile…

Pence has issued his own statement saying that “those involved will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.” However, that also remains to be seen. Having gathered his followers together under the promise of a “wild” time; having spent months inflaming them with lies about a stolen election; and having spent years teaching his followers to disregard every other source … there is every reason to expect that, far from prosecuting the terrorists, Trump will issue a blanket pardon.

At 4 PM EST, President-elect Joe Biden issued a statement in which he said: “This is not protest. It is insurrection.” He called on Trump to go on national television and end this attempted overthrow of the nation.

Fifteen minutes later, Trump issued a statement to the terrorists saying: “I love you. You’re very special. I know how you feel.” In the video, Trump continued to insist that the election was stolen and he won in a landslide.

Trump did say for terrorists to “go home in peace.” That’s one hell of a lot different from “prosecuted the fullest extent of the law.”

Twitter has suspended the account of the criminal-in-chief for 12 hours, which is rather pathetic.

Trump has committed and incited treason against the United States. The police have arrested 13 or 14 rioters; I’d be content if it were just one. They should walk in, arrest Trump, and drag him out in handcuffs. That is the only appropriate response to this level of treason.

Comments

  1. says

    It’s the wrong move. It should be Insurrection. 18 U.S.C. § 2383 – as I just pointed out over at [stderr insurrection has some nastylovely penalties:

    Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States

    [emphasis mine]

  2. captainjack says

    The Nicola Sturgeon has made it clear the Orange Shitgibbon is not welcome in Scotland.

  3. blf says

    There are reports a USAian Air Force aerocraft, known to have previously conveyed hair furor, is scheduled to land in Scotland before his terms ends, suggests a “runner” (as the British put it). On the other hand, the Scottish fist minister has pointed out that hair furor running off to Scotland to “play golf” is not “essential travel”, and hence banned due to the pandemic, or even being expelled, or arrested. (I myself would love to see hair furor being arrested by Scottish police, and perhaps also his Secret Service “guard”, for (e.g., speculating) carrying firearms.)

  4. DonDueed says

    I wonder if the ICC / Interpol could arrest him more easily in Scotland than in the US.

  5. hemidactylus says

    Sadly impeachment may again die in the Senate lacking 2/3rds supermajority. On CNN earlier a talking head said there are too many lackeys in the cabinet for the 25th amendment to succeed there. If 25th amendment succeeded could POTUS Pence then pardon Trump?

    Another talking head suggested censure in Congress as happened to Joe McCarthy. Not sure what that entails beyond symbolic disgrace. Trump has no sense of shame.

    Not sure what stuff could happen after Jan 20th and Trump loses his POTUS aura. Hopefully an orange jumpsuit.

  6. says

    hemidactylus@#9:
    Not sure what stuff could happen after Jan 20th and Trump loses his POTUS aura. Hopefully an orange jumpsuit.

    Charge him with insurrection, and if he’s convicted he’s never allowed to serve in public office again. And, since it’d be in federal courts, there’s no senate majority to worry about – it’d just be a matter of lawyering, evidence, and a judge. Game over, man.

  7. bcw bcw says

    A friend did point out that the Capitol is heavily video monitored and the combination of no masks and White people makes for a prefect case for facial recognition software.

  8. blf says

    @8, To the best of my knowledge (and i welcome corrections!), neither the ICC nor Interpol have any arrest powers. Interpol is a mechanism for sharing arrest warrants (and related matters), and the ICC a mechanism for prosecuting scumbags trying to escape justice by (e.g.) changing jurisdictions of residence (and it must be noted the States does not recognise the ICC).

  9. blf says

    Factsbroked, Instralies, and Totalliars have all apparently decided to lock hair furor out for a few hours (Grauniad’s current live rebellion blog): “Facebook and Instagram join Twitter in locking the social media accounts of Donald Trump following today’s violence at the Capitol.”

  10. whheydt says

    Re facial recognition… ABC had the CEO of the Anti-defamation League on. He said that their people are examining the various videos from the Capitol to see how many people they can identify, based on the people they keep track of.

    As regards the 25th Amendment… One open question is, do acting Department heads count when finding half of the Cabinet to agree to invoke it?

  11. Tethys says

    I am watching congress live.
    Several of the senators that had raised objections to confirming Biden have now dropped their objections. One of them is Kelly Loffler. checks sky for airborne swine.

    Pence and Romney are visibly shaken. Romney gave a rather good speech that decried any further attempts to subvert this election and drew applause. A senator from Mo questioned Phillys process and results and got called a liar by the senator from philly. Then said senator proceeded to fact check and dismiss every single allegation. It’s rather glorious and surreal to watch senators of both parties acknowledge that trump and his base are liars and actual threats to democracy.

  12. MichaelE says

    Mitt did seem a tad miffed, and Lindsey Graham? Sweet zombie Jesus!

    Sure, it’s not much and it is very late, but yikes, listen to what those two are saying, and watch their body language.

    Romney was pissed and Graham seemed genuinely shaken.

    About time, I should think.

  13. says

    WASHINGTON (AP) — DC Police: 4 people died as Trump supporters occupied Capitol; 1 woman shot by police, 3 in medical emergencies.

    Link

  14. wzrd1 says

    @Marcus Ranum, it’d be trivial to defend him against insurrection charges, as he egged the crowd on. Then bravely hid inside of his bunker.
    Now, sedition charges would be essentially impossible to defend against, given his daily brief had days of warnings of violent extremists openly planning violent actions in DC.
    He literally knew in advance and promoted their very real attack upon a coequal branch of government, but did not participate. That’s sedition, they committed insurrection, but failed to reach the high bar that’s reserved for treason.
    Still, as CiC of the armed forces, could military charges be levied against him?
    For the military, sedition, insurrection, treason, espionage and mutiny still carry the death penalty.
    Interestingly, codified as by lethal injection, but now allowing electrocution, hanging, gas chamber and firing squad – ironically, via Trump’s own executive order.

    @Tethys, I’m reminded of the phenomenal bravery of those who are and do not expect to be in any kind of physical danger. I’m also reminded of their reaction once someone kicks their door in and invites themselves inside.
    Hence, they realize their presence in the arctic wastes and the creature they helped create is stalking them.
    The difference being, Frankenstein’s creation was capable of reason, their Trumpenstein is incapable of reason, as is their own mutual creation. So, first they’ll try limiting damage and risk by blessing the electoral votes, when their monster continues acting out, they’ll finally be amenable to rapid impeachment and conviction, if only to slay one monster, threaten another and recoup so shambles of honor.
    If only to survive the next couple of weeks.

  15. Who Cares says

    The good thing about this is that this seems to have quelled the “lets install Trump as dictator”-crowd in the govermnent.

    The bad thing is that there only 30 or so arrests instead of the surrounding everyone still present and not a journalist (and the senators, congress(wo)men and their staff) for mass arrest. And I specifically do not exempt security after seeing these people, tasked with preventing the intrusion, opening barriers and working with the intruders.

    And a few people inside the military as well. From what I understand it was the combination of Pelosi, McConnell (I did check if the pigs around here were flying seeing he was cooperating with the Democrats) and a 3rd senator which got the national guard activate while Trump and his loyalists tried to stop that.

  16. says

    @whheydt:

    One open question is, do acting Department heads count when finding half of the Cabinet to agree to invoke it?

    Yes. It is an open question, because the constitution doesn’t specify quite exactly enough. Here:

    a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide,

    I haven’t studied this but because in some contexts an acting is a principal officer and in some cases not, the lack of specificity here inherits those defects.

    The good thing is that there’s an appeal procedure built into the 25th:

    when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session.

    While I think you’re on safer legal ground to include all the “actings”, since the appeal goes not to the courts but to congress, if congress decides they want the president gone it won’t matter that you did not follow procedures earlier.

    NOTE: there could be a clarifying statute on point, but the logical place for that would be the Presidential Succession Act & the statutory chapters immediately preceding & following. I didn’t find any statutory clarification there.

  17. Who Cares says

    Need to make it a correction. It wasn’t McConnell but Pence and the third was Chuck Grassley, the man who usually takes on the duties the VP has in the senate if the VP is not present.

  18. says

    Yep, it’s hilarious to watch people like Ted Cruz, who was trying to commandeer Trump’s mob for himself only a couple of days ago, suddenly realize that there were crazed anti-government types with guns trying to tear down the door and render judgement on him because of all of it, and suddenly backtrack way the heck down.

    What’s less fun is watching the centrist Democrats who have spent the last several decades insisting that the Republicans can be worked with and that bipartisanship is a virtue in itself trying to downplay this. We just had a massive act of actual, honest-to-gosh treason — the Constitution says “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.” If you perceive that there’s an army forming to overthrow the government by force, and you join it, that’s both “levying war” and “adhering to their enemies” right there — but Joe Biden, who said flat out that he loves Republicans, and who has always been a f*cking racist (and these are white people because of course they are and practically got hugs and kisses from the DC cops), calls it “borderline sedition” — what, exactly, they would have to do to get him to use the t-word I don’t know and would hate to find out, but to call storming the capitol building and disrupting Congress by violence “borderline” anything just shows what a chickenshit imbecile he is. No doubt he’s busy laying plans for how to use this against Antifa — he’s already said, post-convention, that we should send all anarchists (who are pretty uniformly anti-Trump) to prison for their political beliefs. He’s going to weasel out of taking any steps to stop this from happening again, and when it does happen again, the right-wingers will show up in greater numbers with better planning, and succeed.

    This is why I have come to hate the Democratic Party so much: the crime here is Republican, but it’s obvious they’re going to do it again but worse if they’re not stopped, and the Democrats are going to refuse to stop them.

  19. logicalcat says

    Friendly reminder that The Vicar is a Trump supporter who openly admitted to watching the country fail as a way to “own the dems”.

  20. logicalcat says

    Also forgot to add that he’s a seriel liar and makes shit up about Biden and the things he says. He plans to arest all anarchists huh? Yea that sounds like something Biden would say. /rolleyes

  21. Tethys says

    The senate managed to vote No on the last pointless objection to PA’s certified results nearly an hour ago.

    The house is still listening to objectors drone on, and there was some hubbub involving rep from PA calling those currently objecting liars that the camera cut away from. From above it looked like many men running in to prevent any sort of physical altercation from the liar side (R) Texas, Florida, of the aisle.

  22. lumipuna says

    There are reports a USAian Air Force aerocraft, known to have previously conveyed hair furor, is scheduled to land in Scotland before his terms ends, suggests a “runner” (as the British put it). On the other hand, the Scottish fist minister has pointed out that hair furor running off to Scotland to “play golf” is not “essential travel”, and hence banned due to the pandemic, or even being expelled, or arrested.

    I saw people on Twitter arguing that ordinary travel restrictions don’t apply if Trump still holds a valid diplomatic passport on Jan 19. Unless, I suppose, a passport that expires in one day is not considered valid for this purpose OR if the UK government pre-emptively revokes said passport. IDK if Sturgeon has any say in this.

  23. Tethys says

    The vicar hasn’t said anything new for four years. He’s just a curmudgeon who hates everyone and wants to see the world burn. It’s best to ignore his goading.

  24. Ichthyic says

    “practically got hugs and kisses from the DC cops”

    well, excepting the 13 that were arrested on the premises, and the 40 that were arrested after the DC police showed up.

    oh, and the insane air force vet that was shot in the neck.

    you just can’t resist spinning tales can ya, Vic? I haven’t seen an actual honest post from you in YEARS. have you not yet figured out it’s time for you to find another soap box?

  25. Ichthyic says

    “The house is still listening to objectors drone on”

    nah, they’re done now. just doing the final tallies. should be wrapped in an hour or so.

  26. Ichthyic says

    “some hubbub involving rep from PA calling those currently objecting liars that the camera cut away from”

    yup, apparently there was about to be a melee breaking out between the liars and the dems, but the sergeant at arms interrupted them. with a mace.

    crazy shit.

  27. mnb0 says

    “This is not protest. It is insurrection.”
    If anything this is a compliment. The corrupt, rotten political system of the USA is not going to change otherwise. Of course the conservative JoeB will do his utter best to prevent any positive change. And the American pseudo-progressives – including to some extent PZ – will be at his side.
    What exactly has happened? A bunch of profiteers – almost all of them part of the 1%, because otherwise they wouldn’t have been there – have been threatened by a mob. I have more important things to get worked up about. Like a Dutch government doing its best to increase the percentage (9%) of semi-illiterates in The Netherlands.
    American democracy is not under threat, because the American political system nowadays isn’t a democracy in the first place.

  28. smoggybatzrubble says

    Dear American brothers and sisters,

    As an avid watcher of your politics from afar, I want you to know how impressed I am by your commitment to going one better. Over the decades, every time I’ve thought things in the land/home of the free/brave couldn’t get crazier (napalming Vietnamese kids, Watergate, Ollie North, using Saudi terrorists as an excuse to take out Iraq, Sarah Palin, a free pass to the Tech Bros, etc. etc.) you always manage to take it up a notch. But now what will you do? How will you top the Donald? What can possibly outdo the last-four-years’ experience of the most powerful and prosperous nation in the world electing the world’s most dangerous narcissist (who coincidentally happens to be an organic orange dildo crowned with a mouldering ejaculate hairdo) to run y’all into the ground and make the world an exponentially more dangerous place?

    But don’t worry, I think I have an answer for you. When Floyd Rubber and I are romping in the tub together at the JollyLube Retirement home we often sing our favorite song from Hairy Moppins (to be sung to the tune of Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious):

    When trying to destroy oneself, it’s quite an easy job
    To clone an orange psychopath into a Donald Mob
    Unchecked criminality is all a nation needs
    To turn the brave and good into a land of thugs and thieves.
    Psychopathicnarcissisticevilandatrocious
    Even though the sound of it is simply quite atrocious
    If Fox says it loud enough, they’ll say it sounds precocious
    Psychopathicnarcissisticevilandatrocious
    Clone donnie clone donnie clone donnie ay

    Clone donnie clone donnie clone donnie ay

    Anyway, enough of that. I really only signed up to say a big Noo Zillund ‘Gidday!’ to PZ for old times’ sake.

    Dear Prof, although I don’t sully your comments section much anymore, Pharyngula is still my first read with the morning coffee, and has been for a couple of decades. Thanks for keeping on with it. Congratulations on the lovely grandkids. May you enjoy many years yet of eight-legged research happiness. Though you’re not a Kiwi, you may be one of the few people in the world I have always largely agreed with (and learned from). I was reading through some old files the other day and came across this reprehensible poem from another, unbelievably more innocent, age when the worst we had to worry about were cracker defenders. I hope you don’t plan on retiring, but if you do there’s a suggestion in the final stanza you might consider.

    Yours in Christian love you damned unbeliever

    Smoggy

    BOOTY
    A celebratory poem, by S. Batzrubble

    Some men, it’s said, have one big ball,
    But PZ can boast three:
    There’s two for pocket billiards,
    And one he lets us see.

    He won it for his fearless stance,
    Against the godly horde.
    Who preach that life’s an evil dance,
    And thinkers get the sword.

    In former times PZ, they say,
    Was a quiet academic,
    Content to mutter: ‘I won’t pray,
    I think it’s all pathetic!’

    But when good science took some hits,
    From god-deluded liars,
    Our feisty prof defied the writs:
    “Don’t Fuck with PZ Myers!”

    He cried unto the blogosphere,
    In tones, cephalopodic,
    “Your god’s a pimple on my rear!”
    “Your pope’s an alcoholic!”

    “Your crackers make my stomach churn!”
    “I won’t eat Jesus-offal!”
    “And as for you creationists—
    It’s all retarded waffle.”

    He smote them here, he smote them there,
    They were pharyngulated,
    His motto crystalline and clear:
    “Have Gods Exterminated!”

    Advance, advance ungodly folk!
    And win the world for reason!
    Religion is a sick old joke,
    It’s atheism season.

    One day, perhaps, he’ll take a rest,
    Go back to watching squid,
    His trophy wife hugged to his breast,
    An atheist grand-kid.

    When he has rid the world of god,
    He’ll pass along his blog,
    And praise the great cephalopod,
    And amble with his dog.

    Mayhap he’ll have another plan,
    New horizons to explore:
    “For I am not a lazy man,
    There’s one thing I’d adore:

    I want to farm a free-range pig,
    And keep a lively strumpet.
    A pig farm and a brothel gig:
    I’ll call it ‘HAM & COMFORT’!”

  29. John Morales says

    mnb0, so very doom and gloom, like unto a Jeremiah:

    Of course the conservative JoeB will do his utter best to prevent any positive change.

    Of course, you’re just bullshitting.

    (Nothing positive about having the first ever female VP or his appointments hitherto, not even comparatively. Right. Nothing positive about trying to replace Trump)

    American democracy is not under threat, because the American political system nowadays isn’t a democracy in the first place.

    You are so very confused. Representative democracies, however flawed, are still democracies. Thus, you know, the election.

  30. John Morales says

    PS mnb0:

    I have more important things to get worked up about.

    But never let it be said that stopped you from getting worked up about this thing. :)

  31. unclefrogy says

    you know it is kind of reassuring to have a “tame priest” hanging around and regularly making comments that like all priests are full of judgement, some what pompous and self-important and always out of touch at the least and full of untruth. just like the crap I used to hear on sunday mass in the catholic church
    helps me keep myself and my thinking from going off the deep end
    uncle frogy

  32. Tethys says

    It’s been quite a crazed day for America. A for real mace? Well, that’s doubly sad that those objecting were going to start a brawl over a point of order. As Ms Pelosi said “you’re too late”.

    In the end Biden and Harris are officially confirmed and recorded as the winners, and the official transcript retains the objecters being called knowing liars with no regard for democracy.

  33. KG says

    John Morales@35,36,

    mnb0 is, like The Vicar, objectively pro-fascist. Even subjectively, they appear to be at best neutral as between fascism and anti-fascism.

  34. KG says

    “This is what America is not.” hemidactylus@17 quoting Rep. Liz Cheney

    I always find it amusing when people say things like that, whether about their own behaviour (“This racist slur/sexual assault/corrupt expenses claim is not who I am”) or about their country, corporation, etc..

  35. says

    Well, this will not be the last time, and the response will still be the same. Nothing. the cops will rather sacrifice their colleagues to be slaughtered by a right wing mob than lift a finger against them. Or as someone said on Twitter: if you’re wondering where the cops are, you’re probably also asking where Miley is when Hannah is on stage…

  36. voidhawk says

    …aannnnd the Democratic leadership has said that there will be no more sessions until the inauguration, making the articles of impeachment worthless.

  37. says

    Also, the Vicar is really good at this whole “everybody is responsible for the crimes of white men except for the white men who commit them” thing, right?

  38. says

    in US law committing treason is basically impossible without war.
    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
    As I am not aware of any legal and authorized war that US is in now, it would be pretty hard to sentence someone for treason.

    Even leaving the realm of legalisties, it would be treason if Trump did this for some US enemy – like Venezuela, Russia, Iran, North Korea, ISIS.
    As he is doing this for his profit it may be sedition or insurrection, but not treason.

  39. kurt1 says

    @24
    “The (probably)-paid Putin troll lies again.”
    Are you seriously thinking that the russian government would pay people to post in some backwater comment section that is read by 100 people tops?

  40. Allison says

    As Gorzki (@44) points out,

    in US law committing treason is basically impossible without war.

    I looked up the actual clause, and the website I found (https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-iii/clauses/39) went on to say that The US Supreme Court has interpreted this clause very, very narrowly.

    IIRC, nobody was actually prosecuted for treason after the US Civil War, and from what I’ve read on the web, the reason was apparently that some argued that once the states seceeded, it was a war between two different countries — the USA and the CSA — and thus their citizens were no longer US citizens and could no longer be said to be betraying their own country. Nobody wanted to risk having a court decide that the secession made the South a foreign country.

  41. birgerjohansson says

    In a year or two, this will be written off as done by a tiny minority.
    Fox News will not mention it, so for millions, it will be as if it did not happen. How many Republicans do you think remember that a Republican president enabled 9/11 by ignoring an intelligence report?

  42. Dauphni says

    @John Morales #35

    Pretty sure mnb0 is referring to that 2014 Princeton study here, which argues quite convincingly that the USA is not in fact a democracy but an oligarchy. Sure you may still officially call yourself a representative democracy and its institutions are still largely in place, but they’re for show more than anything else, since “economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.” (https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf)

  43. KG says

    Dauphni@48,
    Whether a country is a democracy is not a binary yes/no question. I doubt anyone who regularly posts here would deny that there are hugely important elements of oligarchy in the way the USA works. But it’s absurd to claim that there are no democratic elements, as mnb0 effectively does.

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