Oh, come now. Are they just taunting me, waving a bit of succulent red meat before and begging me to bite? Should topics such as creationism or intelligent design be taught in public schools alongside the theory of evolution? 85% say yes. I cannot believe that 85% of the population are that stupid, although it is being hosted on the American Patriarchy News Network, which would tend to bias the sample downward.
Gah. This came out garbled before, and you would not believe how long it took to get in and fix it. The scienceblogs server is rapidly becoming intolerable…which, of course, is exactly what the DOS bastards want.
and where is the link to the said poll?
Where’s the link PZ? I bursting to vote!
At some point, PZ, I assume you’ll be linking to this poll so that it can be properly adjusted… correct?
This is really insane. I see this and I wonder what people are thinking.
Are they unaware of the scientific dialogue between the two arguments, which is so incredibly lopsided?
From BobC in an earlier thread:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Poll.aspx?ekfrm=282864
I can’t even find an American Patriarchy News Network by running google to the ground in search of it. So I’m thinking it’s one of those very small little “let’s tell each other how right we are!” communities or something.
Shame, I was all set for a good poll crashing.
The American Patriarchy News Network? Oh, I’m getting a bad feeling about this!
Anyone who reads a site like “American Family News” is unaware of a lot of things. It’s almost an example of Poe’s Law. It’s just a little beyond a parody.
Sorry, it’s my quaint habit to substitute “patriarchy” for “family” in the name of any right wing institution.
The link posted by “Charley #5” needs some reality “adjustments”. Don’t know if it is the same poll PZ was referring to. The website is a stomach churning carnival of stupidity.
Sure, if they do it right, by noting that it is an old mythic/metaphysical belief that has, thankfully, been superseded by honest empirical research.
The failed ideas deserve to be mentioned as the failures that they are.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
poll crashing is my new favorite hobby!
Ha…if you keep refreshing the results you can slowly watch it climb. We’re down to 75% YES right now.
Just did my part…
Ah, yes… just open up in a new incognito window in Chrome and vote to my heart’s content…
Commence course correction…
Do we know now that it’s a DOS attack? Any idea from where?
Thats odd.. the link didnt show up in my RSS reader. Just came out as unformatted text but as soon as I came here, link worked fine!
Anyways, did my little bit for the good sense cause..
poll crashing is my new favorite hobby!
Jon D (#17), it seems to me the rss feed is still carrying the old post, in which the link was garbled.
It really doesn’t take long for a poll to be “pharyngulaed” once PZ posts it.
It’s already down to 65% yes.
Wow, “no” is up 10% from when I voted in a matter of minutes! Now 63/35.
It really doesn’t take long for a poll to be “pharyngulaed” once PZ posts it.
It’s already down to 65% yes.
This poll has a related article about Liar-For-Jebus Casey Luskin who complains about evolution being called a fact. It’s a waste of time to leave comments there because pro-science comments are censored.
The 85% in favor of teaching magical creation in biology classes is now 61% and dropping every second.
I voted–where do you see the poll results???
#23
But I thought ID has nothing to do with religion! Why’s he writing an article on this site? I just don’t get it….
guys, they’re fighting back! We’re in trouble, I think….
Is the pop-up ad on that site (at least, one I saw), for “getting a bible in the hands of every soldier” as terrifying to anyone else as much as it is to me? o.O
“Server Error in ‘/’ Application.”
O hai, I’m on ur internets, pharyngulizing ur pollz.
“Are they unaware of the scientific dialogue between the two arguments”
Completely, blithely, and willfully.
I’m rather relieved to find out that it’s an American Patriarchy Association poll. I originally thought it was 85% just because it was a Mississippi poll.
I did my part. Am I a member of the ilk now?
DOS? Come on, help out the old and not-so-hep cats. What does DOS refer to this time?
Not *only* are they scientifically illiterate, but somehow the news of Kitzmiller/Dover has escaped them. What? They’re waiting for the movie?
Voted on this one…many many times.
DOS in this case stands for ‘Denial of Service’ attacks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_service
It’s 50/50 now…let’s get the YES down to single didjits!
50.02% NO.
if you use http://www.Anonymouse.org, it appears you can vote over and over.
The tide just turned! The votes are piling up faster than I can refresh the page.
That is the sort of site that makes poe’s law work. Welfare mentality is the root cause of the financial crisis? “You’re an angry feminist? How cute!” (Referring to people who dislike Sarah Palin.) We were greeted as liberators?
They must have a fundie utopia tattood in their colon, if that’s how they see the world.
I’ve done my bit too, I rather like the thought of being an ilk.
Decent people are up and about and we’re almost there at 50%
No is winning at 51%
hurry, this site changes polls rapidly!
If you don’t accept cookies from that page you can vote multiple times without any anonymizer tools…
JThompson, thanks.
Cheating and voting multiple times takes the sport out of it – there’s more than enough of us to trash it fairly!
Kylgar @ #27:
Well, the troops need toilet paper, and we all know Halliburton isn’t competent to supply it… :P
On another note, every single post I’ve made today has had a submission error. Is that happening to everyone? Something is really fucking up the servers.
Poll results are looking better. And after voting you can click on a banner ad and buy your own copy of “Expelled.” I have a feeling, somehow, they wanted the poll to go “Yes.”
No is at 53%!
Hit refresh after voting. The “yes” percentage decreases and decreases.
Yes – 42.15%
[42.15%]
No – 57.39%
[57.39%]
Unsure – 0.46%
[0.46%]
5208 responses
Fixed
@45 – It’s the DOS attack that’s screwing with the servers – someone isn’t happy with scienceblogs right now
A swarm of Pharyngulites is hardly fair under any circumstances.
Thanks for posting the link. I’m glad to see the poll swinging the other way.
Doing my part, voicing my opinion, helping disadvantaged polls swing toward reality. Keep setting them up, and I’ll keep helping you knock them down. :)
And you wonder why anyone would want to make a denial-of-service attack against you?
Didn’t someone threaten to crash the site in an earlier thread?
Sanity has a comfortable lead, I think it was 58% but I was so disturbed by the rantings down the right hand column I clicked off in disgust.
32% Yes to 67% No
I registered and commented on poor Casey’s misled ranting…now to see if they show my comment.
Hey PZ:
That ‘onenewsnow’ site is infested with right wing bible thumpers. Not surprising that the ‘faithful’ had the first go at the poll.
Funny thing about fundies tho’ – about 20% are true believers (i.e. certified nutters), the others are a mix of weak minded bufoons who would trust any snake oil salesman and right wing operatives who find these simpletons easy to control.
i think we broke the site….
Poll mobbing like this is like hitting the oafish class bully with a spitwad.
It doesn’t solve the problem, but it irritates them.
Nothing wrong with that.
Re: snake oil
I just caught a glimpse of the totally nutty “pinnycostal” preacher Paula White talking about her weight loss program. Maybe their other message–the jeebus one–is not bringing in the contributions they want, so they are going in another direction.
29.67% Yes
69.26% No
1.06% Unsure
8172 responses
Those numbers still aren’t good enough.
ok, it worked now, did my part :-)
29% yes
69% no
How about “48 liberal lies about American history”; “The Soviet economy didn’t just fail.” Wait, I know: prayer did it!
Upton O’Goode: Can I steal your name for my band?
As for the poll, it seems to have died. I just keep getting error messages.
of course it didn’t just fail by itself!! Reagan singlehandedly destroyed it with his good looks, charm and economic savvy.
or something like that.
It’s working. A new response is added every 1 or 2 seconds.
BTW, the site runs ads for Expelled (“The movie liberals don’t want you to see!” — how surprising that religion, creationism and politics are seen as one package… not), and one of those annoying ones that aren’t really pop-ups because you can’t drag them around; usually those are ads for cars, but this one is for “putting Bibles in the hands of our soldiers” and is by the Campus Crusade for
CthulhuChrist.Funnily enough, instead of the results, the poll comes up again. You have to vote again to see the results. :-D
Yes.
No longer. It was worse yesterday.
… exactly what the DOS bastards want
The DOS Bastards? I know this is off topic, but that’s a really good name for a band.
Yes – 27.84%
[27.84%]
No – 71.19%
[71.19%]
Unsure – 0.97%
[0.97%]
9202 responses
Crackpot polls! Never underestimate the tentacle-y power of pharyngula.
The fundies are fighting back.
I wonder where they sent out word that this was happening?
Must be some creepy sites eh?
’tis the season to be voting… Trash a trashy poll today.
Maybe they’ll give up, eventually.
Another Minion
automatization with firefox + firebug:
click on “No” first, then paste into console:
WebForm_ExecuteCallback=function(){setTimeout(“document.forms[0].elements[17].click()”, 10000)};
document.forms[0].elements[17].click();
Voted again, after running Ccleaner.. a very useful program!
Bob
I voted, too. I also saw the ‘a bible for every soldier’ ad.
Now, I need to go shower.
Another poll crashed. PZ’s flying monkeys strike again.
OT, but I find this very worrying.
@ #12
oh yes, it seems almost a duty to help make sure igorant people question their own world view.
pause and thank sir tim berners lee for helping al gore invent the interweb because there has been no empiricaly better way to help joe sixpack uncover the facts which are usually burried beneath the media/religion/tv/piles-o’-garbage we he has had to swallow all these millenia.
pleeeeeeeeeeeease. gimmie moer slanted polls to, erm, unslant.
Not that I’m advocating this but, if you disable the accepting of cookies in your web browser you can vote, click refresh, and vote again as often as you like. Clear out any existing cookies from the domain first.
Use this wisely, my friends, only for good, never for evil.
They must have a fundie utopia tattood in their colon, if that’s how they see the world.
ooh, I rather like that. so many appropriate images wrapped up in one tidy sentence.
“Gah. This came out garbled before, and you would not believe how long it took to get in and fix it. The scienceblogs server is rapidly becoming intolerable…which, of course, is exactly what the DOS bastards want.”
And letting them know they are getting under your skin will only make it worse. My advice? Don’t mention it again.
Oh, and try to be less abrasive and maybe you won’t attract so much hostility and antagonism. You seem to enjoy pushing people’s buttons.
We’ll continue to be abrasive until the other side, the ignoramuses, give up. They need to learn they are a flea on the body of society.
Thank you for your concern. Please take it with you when you leave.
I’ve just come across an old friend who has introduced me to God.
eric williams @ #83:
So PZ’s mentioning it will, what… make the offending computers try hard? Hurt the morale of SB’s servers? A DOS attack is a well defined problem with technical solutions, and our irritation has nothing to do with its eventual resolution.
Have to agree with Nerd of Redhead @84. These guys have been condescending jackasses for as long as I can remember. The only way they wouldn’t be offended by us is if they didn’t know we existed.
That poll is properly balanced now. “No” is leading 74-24.
It’s perfectly fair. The web is meant to link information, a link was posted. If you don’t want something linked, don’t put it on the web.
Wow, fancy that. Every single hook line in the left column is completely wrong and based on republican talking point logic. Who knew conservatism had become such a vapid husk of false intellectuality?
Opera, site preferences, never accept cookies.
Vote, refresh, vote, refresh.
“And you wonder why anyone would want to make a denial-of-service attack against you?”
There’s a huge difference between having your users exploit a silly nonscientific poll and intentionally using illegal means to continually crash server.
I don’t like the answers available for this poll. There should be:
1: Praise jjjeeeeebbbuuussss yes!
2: Yes
3: Don’t know. (I will leave these poor saps alone for the moment.
4: No.
5: Fuck no, there is enough stupid being taught in society without having it taught in the schools.
Of course, number 5 should be leading the pack.
I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act,’ Mr Branchflower wrote in the report.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/11/2388385.htm
Oh my. At least it’s headed in the right direction now.
Here’s another one in need of crashing. I just found this “best qualified to lead” poll. Palin is actually ahead 61% to 36%. I thought this was California???
http://www.ksbw.com/politics/17684900/detail.html?treets=mty&tml=mty_natlbreak&ts=T&tmi=mty_natlbreak_1_07280310102008
http://www.ksbw.com/surveypopup/politics/17691292/detail.html?p=politics
that site is something else… they complain about distortions and errors in textbooks(jesus a palestinian!!!oh noes!!!1!), but want to teach creationism; they scream “persecution” whenever someone mentions that christian decorations on public property are unconstitutional, but freak out over Yoga lessons to help kids with stress over exams
the hypocrisy…
The scienceblogs server is rapidly becoming intolerable…which, of course, is exactly what the DOS bastards want.
Good grief, if ScienceBlogs is still using DOS machines for its servers, no wonder it’s so slow. They should at least upgrade to Windows 3.1!
I really hate the idea of DOS attacks, because in this case they are trying to suppress the flow of information which is apparently making someone uncomfortable.
Is there any way for me to support scienceblogs by making a small donation to the war efforts? I am betting many of us would like to chip in a few bucks for this particular cause. I’m sure your tech guys could benefit, even if it’s just enough to buy them all a lot of sushi or scotch.
Interesting. So 96% of Americans claim to believe in god, but 85% think creationism should be taught alongside evolution. I wonder what the other 11% think god was doing with his time?
But seriously – yes, that many people can be that stupid.
“Troopergate”?
Attack of the Snowclones. :/
Interesting. So 96% of Americans claim to believe in god, but 85% think creationism should be taught alongside evolution. I wonder what the other 11% think god was doing with his time?
But seriously – yes, that many people can be that stupid.
Stupidity begets religion and religion begets stupidity.
David @ 101
Probably are catholics, jews and other religions that acept the theory of evolution…
Fortunatelly believing in gods does not imply to believe in creationism …
Yes – 26.35%
No – 72.99%
Unsure – 0.66%
16107 responses
I feel better now.
Yes – 26.35%
No – 72.99%
Unsure – 0.66%
16107 responses
I feel better now.
I was able to write and post my most recent item without any timeouts or error messages, although the interface was noticeably slow. Maybe the situation is improving.
Yes – 26.35%
No – 72.99%
Unsure – 0.66%
16107 responses
I feel better now.
Yikes! Sorry about the triple posting. This is the first time I have had this trouble. I should learn to read instructions.
The bibles because it works out cheaper than providing the soldiers with bullet-proof vests, and will give all protection needed? /sick joke
Is there really some kind of D.O.S. attack going on?
It is not a joke. It is a valid statement.
I voted, but I feel pretty dirty for having gone to that website.
http://www.ksbw.com/surveypopup/politics/17691292/detail.html?p=politics
Do you agree with the panel’s finding that Gov. Sarah Palin abused her power?
Yes 710 45%
No 830 53%
Unsure 31 2%
Science hasn’t yet come up with an explanation for how a single cell could have evolved one piece at a time given its irreducibly complex interdependent parts.
Michael Behe wrote “Darwin’s Black Box” after graduating as a Cambridge science genius with study grants and the like. He’s not “stupid.” If you guys don’t believe in intelligent design, then your better off accusing guys like Michael Behe (and other accredited scientists who have been trained at the best of our secular academic institutions) of being bias rather than stupid.
But then again … the truth is … everyone is bias. You don’t have to be stupid to be bias.
Michael Behe
…has been shown to be wrong so many times it’s gotten too boring to even link to any more.
stupid is as stupid does.
and he has done and said some remarkably STUPID shit.
…you can start here:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=017254414699180528062%3Auyrcvn__yd0&q=behe+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Fpharyngula%2F&sa=Search
and prowl through the articles yourself for just a taste of Behe’s stupidity.
religion MAKES people say really stupid shit in order to rationalize it for themselves.
simple as that.
You’ll even find Ken Miller, the most popular writer of biology textbooks in the country (and no supporter of “ID”) saying really stupid shit when asked about how he rationalizes the religious nonsense he usually compartmentalizes away.
Fracis Collins?
same thing.
getting the picture yet?
If not, let’s try this…
this is what your brain is like on religion:
Science hasn’t yet come up with an explanation for how a single cell could have evolved one piece at a time given its irreducibly complex interdependent parts.
and yes, it has. involves several mechanisms, in fact. You might start by learning what co-optation or exaptation mean to get your journey to the dark side started.
*looks for anything factually correct in post #114*
nope.
moving on.
Orr rips Behe’s argument apart:
http://bostonreview.net/BR21.6/orr.html
Of course he’s not stupid, but he’s wrong on this issue. At least compared to the other ID guys, he’s willing to believe the world is billions of years old and there was common descent. But his mechanism is still wrong, and his proof (irreducible complexity) is not the obstacle for evolution he reports it as. He’s a good biochemist, but his understanding of biology it seems is limited by his own belief.
Irreducible complexity is not an obstacle for evolution, the idea of how irreducible complexity can occur naturally was solved nearly a century ago.
Here’s a nice place to start if you want to actually inform yourself on how evolutionary biologists have solved the problem
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe.html
Of course the other option is just talking out of your arse and appealing to the authority of Behe’s education.
#114 – “But then again … the truth is … everyone is bias. You don’t have to be stupid to be bias.”
You don’t have to be stupid to be biased, but you do have to be stupid to say “everyone is bias” instead of “everyone is biased.”
Hey, when you guys are done feeding the creotroll, jump on over to the wikipedia articles on vitamin poisoning, hyper vitaminosis a, d and e. Replace all pictures with Ray Kurzweil’s mug.
What on earth is a “Cambridge science genius”? As far as I know, Behe was never at Cambridge. He may have got a study grant somewhere, but that is fully compatible with his being stupid — as are his books.
I say this much, if you are a genius AND religious, well then you really are stupid.
Yes – 26.20%
No – 73.22%
Unsure – 0.58%
19169 responses
mo betta
Single malt talking here.
Oh Flying Spaghetti Monster — I can relate — I have a colleague who continually says “Did you put that [document] on the land?” instead of “…on the LAN?”
I want to shake her and say “You mean on the Local Area Network right? LAN? Not *land* as in — wtf *DO* you mean?…”
But I’m afraid if I did it would start a *noo-kyoo-lur* war in our office about competency and stuff, so I gotta suck it up.
Well to everyone here. What if 85 % of Yanks do want both sides. I have always heard its about 70% in the top polls.
If this many people think its okay then let democracy prevail.
Why do you know better?
Why should you get your way?
What are you afraid of?
If the poll was the opposite would you be insisting creationists to cease and desist in bringing creationism into the schools?
Are the people king only if you get your way?
From Canada
Well, it looks like Robert Byers is insane — or just really stupid, though I don’t wish to insult the generic stupid person by lumping him in.
Since the majority of Americans “apparently” believe in supernatural healing via God, doctors should now have both religious-healing and medical training! Since they’re both perfectly viable options, doctors working in ERs need only apply religious-healing to their victims, be them gunshot victims or people with cancer.
Let democracy prevail! Remember, the majority of people wanting something makes it viable to change non-democratic systems in order to justify it.
Also, the sun will always orbit the Earth damn it. How dare those non-democratic scientists argue something against the majority, their view-point was just as valid!
Praise Jesus!
Robert Byers, check this out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
No matter how many people believe it, it doesn’t make it any more true. Even if 99.9999% of people believed that Creationism happened, it’s still not science and does not belong in the science classroom.
It’s called the scientific method, it has a phenomenal success rate. The same observations that lead to computers running also lead to the understanding that the world is billions of years old. If you think science is such an abomination, you are free not to reap the benefits from it. Ignore the medical practices, stop using devices that rely on physics, and for goodness sake, get off your damn computer. It’s possessed by the devil!
Because the Constitution says so. No state-sponsored religion means no creationism in state-funded science classrooms. It’s that simple. People who want that sort of religiously slanted education are free to seek it in private schools, at their own expense.
Eric: And letting them know they are getting under your skin will only make it worse. My advice? Don’t mention it again.
Yeah, I agree. One’s silence makes other people very, very nervous. Can do, anyway. That is a far better strategy.
@130
Yup, it worked well for all these people, why wouldn’t it work for us ?
;)
Don’t diss on argumentum ad populum, it’s all Robert has*. The mere fact that it has a name and a Wikipedia article probably just encourages him.
* Unless his old myths somehow got on the wrong side of the majority, I suspect.
“Science hasn’t yet come up with an explanation for how a single cell could have evolved one piece at a time given its irreducibly complex interdependent parts.”
Has any other discipline came up with anything? Making shit up doesn’t count.
I don’t expect Robert Byers to learn anything at all. He’s got this far in life being an ignorant tool, why wouldn’t he keep on being that way?
Late to the poll, but added my vote. Can I put ‘poll crashing’ on my list of hobbies?
On topic :
//What if 85 % of Yanks do want both sides. I have always heard its about 70% in the top polls.
If this many people think its okay then let democracy prevail.
Why do you know better?
Why should you get your way?
What are you afraid of?//
Let me answer this from the perspective of a German living in Australia,Mr Byers.
The USA is in sharp decline morally,economically,intellectually,and all that is left of its former superpower status is its military,the budget of which will speed up its economical decline.
If people like yourself have their say,and “let democracy prevail” in teaching nonsense to children,then I will sit back,put my feet up and have some peanuts while I watch your country become a third world country full of uneducated bozos,from which the new powers of the world will recruit their supply of cheap uneducated labor.Go ahead,teach the controversy….:-)
OT :
McCain earned my respect by fighting off challenges by batshit insane Obama haters at a rally,video here :
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008/10/mccain_pwned_by_minnesota_race.php
This is for the moron Robert Byers, who wants to force biology teachers to teach magic, and who asked “What are you afraid of?”.
Byers, Christian retards who want to dumb down America’s science education with their childish idiotic belief in magical creation are traitors. Keep your breathtaking stupidity out of our schools. In return you won’t be put in prison for treason.
#120 I find that many social conservatives who are generally able to spell, write “bias” instead of “biased.” I don’t know why that is.
I disagree. I actually do believe creationism should be taught in schools. Not only that, but in the science classroom. Why? Simple: children are more inclined to believe what their parents teach them. So what if we try to teach evolution and the theory of natural selection in schools? Most kids do not seriously consider the topic, sticking with whatever their parents have taught them years before.
Hence, I believe that there’s no better way to fight creationism than to teach it in science class. Through science, we can show why creationism is not a legitimate theory to explain the origins of life. We can show that creationism is nothing more than faith based on no evidence, not a scientific theory. It is only when we can teach children the problems of creationism as a scientific theory, to push children to think scientifically, can we really begin to make them understand evolution.
@Jeff #138:
Because they are either too ignorant, or too stupid, or they watch too much Fox News without actually listening to what is said. They hear “Liberal Bias” and off they go, like parrots that have been taught to swear. Like the parrots, they don’t have a clue what it is they’re saying, they just know that a particular combination of sounds will get them attention.
//It is only when we can teach children the problems of creationism as a scientific theory, to push children to think scientifically, can we really begin to make them understand evolution.//
Ehm,no.
As you correctly point out,children will come into science class loaded with what they have heard from their parents.
In the case of creationists,it will often be too late for their brainwashed kids already.And they shouldnt get special considerations,its science class,let them find out by themselves that the BS their parents make up is not good enough for science class.
In the case of normal kids,there is no reason whatsoever to teach them about stone-age mythology in a science class,do it in religious studies if you must.
@Kate #140
I have run across people who are mimics rather than understanding what words and phrases mean (someone once told me “it’s a doggie dog world”), but I think I’m seeing something different than that.
I’m seeing people who are narrow-minded social conservatives, but generally as articulate as a modern person, yet they fail to spell this one simple word. It doesn’t seem possible that they never learned the word “biased”, then learned from some hate-radio maniac that claimed that “the liberal media are bias”
Who the hell goes to an online poll and votes ‘Unsure’?
OT but: Ichthyic at #115 – #117: I love it when you tear a moron apart like that.
Ooooh – what a lovely turnaround from when I first saw it linked yesterday.
I do so love it when stoopeed polls are touched by His tentacular appendage.
Personally I think it’s time to drive up unsure to the point it outnumbers yes. Like that poll about which candidate would be better for engineering. I seem to recall that “Anyone but McSame” won out.
Y. Lin #139:
I agree it would be nice if a public school biology teacher could tell her students why magical creation is a religious myth. Unfortunately this would be a violation of the Establishment Clause. Another problem is the large number of incompetent creationist biology teachers in Idiot America who would use this as an excuse to tell her students that magical creation is a fact. Also, students who want to learn science would not care for class time being wasted talking about the breathtaking stupidity of Christian beliefs.
Why not just teach science and only science in a science classroom? If any god-soaked students have a problem with that, let them fail the class. In a perfect world creationist students would be thrown out of the classroom and not allowed to return, and creationist biology teachers would be fired and never allowed near a school again.
Just been voting on the poll (currently about 72/25 in favour of sense) and noticed that someone’s got a bot at work “voting” repeatedly (about 10 times a second) for the forces of darkness. So rationalist votes are required more than ever!
There’s definitely a creationist vote-bot active.
Y. Lin #139:
“Hence, I believe that there’s no better way to fight creationism than to teach it in science class. Through science, we can show why creationism is not a legitimate theory to explain the origins of life.”
No!!! Teaching creationism in a SCIENCE class will give it credibility in the minds of some students and their parents, as well as the community, regardless of the excellence of the teaching. Take it from a teacher. I do agree that the specious arguments of creationists should be taught, but in a philosphy or perhaps a religion class.
*** Poll alert! ***
The station linked to by Nancy @ 94 is now asking whether visitors agree with the finding that Palin abused her power by firing Alaska’s public safety commissioner. A few minutes ago (when I voted), “No” was leading 60 – 40. Surely Pharyngulites disagree!
http://www.ksbw.com/politics/index.html
— JPS
theophilogue (#114):
Would this be the irreducible complexity which H.J. Muller predicted as an expected consequence of evolution by mutation and selection, back in 1918?
Silly creationist.
Here in Connecticut we have our own creationist agenda brewing. The http://www.creationct.com/ group has a speaker this morning talking about a young earth and starting off with the statement that ‘Connecticut is a beautiful State, demonstrating God’s awesome “intelligent design.”‘ – I once thought that it’s safe as long as they keep it in their churches and home schools. But then I realize that it leaks out into school boards and such where it causes real damage.
I just looked in on this poll, and the number of responses is increasing at a rapid rate. The “yes” response is up to 35%, so it looks like some creationist group may be crashing the poll, too.
While I understand where you are coming from, there are a few strong points against it.
1. It legitimises creationism by teaching it. By putting it alongside evolution, it makes them seem like comparative ideas.
2. There are some teachers who want creationism taught in schools and aren’t going to be critical of it the way it deserves. About 16% of science teachers in the US are creationists. That’s one in 6 classrooms that will then have free reign to push non-science in science class.
3. If we bring in creationism, why shouldn’t we bring in holocaust denial or 911truth movement into the history classroom?
I can see what you are trying to say and I agree, it’s just not a good means to go about it. Students have an entire childhood of indoctrination, is attacking that indoctrination head on going to be any better than just ignoring it and teaching actual science? You only get a few short hours to teach, why cram bronze age mythology into that time as well?
You overlooked the constitution of the USA.
The only legal way to teach creationism would be to teach all creationisms of all religions that have ever existed, in addition to science. Anything else would favor some religions over others, and that is something that public agencies of the USA (like the public schools for example) are not allowed to do.
Teaching all creationisms would take several years, full-time. That’s simply not feasible. So, what is done instead is the other way to treat all religions equally: none of them is taught, and science is taught alone.
Nonsense. They would simply fail, because understanding the theory of evolution would be required for graduation, and understanding it seems to make creationism impossible. Hardly anyone is capable of being that much of a fideist.
Get out the vote!
ahh those CreationCT folk pulled out a thousand dollar ad in UCONN’s paper to entice people to come to their show this weekend. Too bad it was filled with a ton of fallacies
sheehs i thought we would be safe in the northeast but guess not
Some fundieloon’s definitely put vote-bots on that poll. I clicked the refresh button a few times, and the percentage was dropping tenths at a time.
Anyone here got a vote-bot to counter theirs?
They sure are.
“Yes” has nearly caught up to “no.”
Yes: 43%
No: 56%
As of 10:16 CST, the number of rational-thinking voters on the poll are down from yesterday’s 75% nays:
now only 60% no
At least keeping creationists busy voting against sanity keeps them from using that time to personally reproduce more infants to brainwash.
(intellectuals using their time voting might otherwise have used that voting time with sex, but probably using more birth control methods than religious fundies)
The poll is jumping by about 100 votes at a time.
“Yes” has now overtaken “no.” The earlier pharyngulization has been reversed.
OMFSM
by 18 minutes later, nays are at only 51% against a surge of fundies voting
Yes has know surged ahead. Interesting that they had to crash their own poll to accomplish this. Still it would be good to get this one back…
Now “no”s 41%
It’s OK if they take it back. Remember, the goal isn’t to “win” the poll, it’s to show that winning it is meaningless.
I was a slacker, and didn’t try to vote until this AM. All I got for my NO is a server error.
Heh. Looks like they literally crashed their own poll.
When I tried to refresh just now, the website was down.
I tried, guys, I tried, I voted for all my family too, but to no avail!
I voted, but it was 70% yes… :(
I watched Yes & No reverse roles over the last few hours from ~24% Yes / ~75% No to the current (dynamic) state of 72% Yes / 27% No.
O’, where be the Script Master of Polls Past?
“the goal isn’t to “win” the poll, it’s to show that winning it is meaningless.”
A very good point, which I will endeavour to keep in mind. Still, when the competitive juices are flowing, it’s hard to leave the field in the possession of the enemy, even if the field in question is irrelevant in the long run.
Absolutely hilarious that to “win” the poll the creationists had to prove how completely pointless the poll was in the first place.
I had great fun voting last night. Found a new game genre I enjoy – MMOPC (massively multiplayer online poll crashing).
I found another poll we could crash.
http://www.newsday.com/ny-usmari1011,0,1570946.story
Looks like gay marriage was given a green light in Connecticut and they have a poll to go along with the story.
At the time of my vote good sense was up
Yes(3712 responses)72.2%
No 944 responses)18.4%
No, but I support civil unions(488 responses)9.5%
But good sense seems to always need a helping hand when it comes to the internets…
NO is at only 25% with 75,000 votes. I suspect crashing.
Turning off cookies for the site and multiple rapid clicks on the vote button seems to have an effect.
Turning off cookies for the site and multiple rapid clicks on the vote button seems to have an effect.
Turning off cookies for the site and multiple rapid clicks on the vote button seems to have an effect.
Sorry about the multiple post – I checked but time-out and re posted – then 3 appeared.
@ Gary [173-5],
The poll is currently getting slammed with 1000+ votes/min, so that could be giving your method the illusion of success. The percentage difference keeps fluctuating, but the creobots seem to have the advantage at the moment.
Currently (and by that, I mean about a minute ago), the polls stands at:
Yes – 77.78%
No – 22.10%
120400 responses
176000 votes increasing at about 1000 p.m
15% No and falling rapidly
Over 200k votes now.
If this many people think its okay then let democracy prevail.
Didn’t your mama ever tell you not to follow your friends if they decide to jump off a bridge?
I think it’s hilarious the American Family Association (I believe it’s an AFA site) had to hijack its own poll in order to get the result it wanted!
There’s a chapter on creationism in Robert Schadewald’s book Worlds of Their Own called “Lying for God” (apparently he was planning a book on creationism with that title but died before he could get it off the ground); seems like the creationists are just now manifesting it.
I think it’s hilarious the American Family Association (I believe it’s an AFA site) had to hijack its own poll in order to get the result it wanted!
There’s a chapter on creationism in Robert Schadewald’s book Worlds of Their Own called “Lying for God” (apparently he was planning a book on creationism with that title but died before he could get it off the ground); seems like the creationists are just now manifesting it.
This could be just a fine example of Poe’s Law, but do I detect tampering? The poll is now running at over 90% for Yes, with 305 000 + votes.
When I logged onto the poll at http://www.onenewsnow.com there was a single button to “vote now” , when I clicked on that it automatically voted for creationism and added multiple positive votes from my contact. I tried this one more time, and the counter would,once again, only register votes in favor of creationism. I suggest that the more I tried to vote “no” the more times I’d be voting “yes”.
Talk about a “rigged poll”! I think that the website creator we’re getting upset by the first days results (thanks PZ) and intelligently designed the poll to “create” only votes positive to their cause. Try it yourself and let us know if you get the same results….
Bogus Christian Phonies!!!!
The vote count (on the original thread poll, not the Palin on)
is going up at a rate of around 100 per second, all Yes votes.
It appears that a creationist bot script is killing the poll in the yes direction.
I must agree with dsmccoy…it’s up to 92% as of 7:55pm central time.
Where are you, Pharyngulites? Science is losing!
Where are you, Pharyngulites? Science is losing!
read #163 and stop bleating about it already.
the poll is crashed, it doesn’t make any difference at all which way.
The gudfuckers must have cottoned on that the poll was being pharyngulised.
But considered that the web site is for cretins only anyway, it doesn’t make much difference.
Don’t get your noodles in a knot. Delusional people are not always stupid people. They have beaten the pharyngulites at their own game… but really … only this once. The statistics will stand out as the anomaly they are. And should anyone point to this poll and say “well looky here!!!” When measured up against all other such similar polls it will be obvious that this was a true sham. And this rag and the people associated with it will look like the idiots they are.
Regards
Dave
ca. 400,000 votes – increasing at about 1 per second
The ridicule can be improved by pushing this total to an utterly impossible level, so no-one, anywhere, can propose the result as being real. So – vote continuously, vote rapidly.
Checked this again today 10/11. Hit the refresh button on this bogus “piece of shit” religious poll and it bumped up the “yes” vote in sizeable increments every time. The new Palin poll is similarly rigged…
519693 responses now Yes leads by 95 percent to 5 percent.
There you go again.
You evolution thumpers ignore the wisdom of the american people. Ignore their rights and ability to decide what is prohibited about origins in their country, schools, with their kids.
This will fail in time.
Some of you try to say the constitution prohibits creationism in science class. It doesn’t.
The constitution is clear about a separation of church and state. If the state is teaching the church is wrong on foundation doctrines for many then the state is breaking the wall of separation. By teaching evolution it is doing this. By teaching evolution while stopping Genesis as a accurate account it screaming that the state has a opinion on the Christian religions doctrines.
In fact schools are not related to the church/state separation concept.
Therefore the people should have a say about origins and they will not include any ideas that are not well founded. only the bible is well founded and for the moment evolution is seen as well founded.
Freedom of thought/speech/inquiry will prevail over the present censorship.
Its just beginning to catch the citizens interest and passion.
Again, argumentum ad populum. You are an exercise in insipidity.
Science is done in the science arena, schools teach science. Creationism is no more valid than alchemy as a science, the only difference is that there are a lot more gullible people there. Teach creationism in religion class, but it’s not science. No matter how you talk of censorship, science only deals with issues that have empirical worth. Creationism doesn’t, just like alchemy doesn’t. It’s not taught because it doesn’t fit the evidence.
Robert Byers, why don’t you pray to God for him to present empirical evidence to support ID instead of crying about an issue that goes over your head? You just don’t get it and while you continue to make a logical fallacy you will never get it. Just give up now and actually do some science if you want your idea in the science classroom.