It was a good week to go offline »« Around FtB

[Lounge #389]

pangolin

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. What do you think? Is it a pangolin kind of day?

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

Comments

  1. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    I’m sorry dianne I can’t hear you what with me being all apocalypsed and all…

  2. says

    carlie
    No, the Harry and David pears are not better than the storebought kind( although this may vary with your local store) although they tend to be a bit juicier IME. I have a lovely recipe for pear cake, but not with me right now because I’m at work. I shall try to remember to look it up when I get home in a few hours. I also recommend that you look at your local farmer’s market in season if you live somewhere pears grow. You can often get much better ones than the store or mail order catalog have got. A couple years back, L and I picked up a single pear that was nearly the size of my head; the thing weighed better than 2 kilos and was the best tasting pear I’ve ever had.

  3. dianne says

    I can’t hear you what with me being all apocalypsed and all…

    The birds and snakes and aeroplanes are too loud to hear over?

  4. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    FossilFishy:
    Which one of cicely’s hooved friends is visiting you?
    War?
    Pestilence?
    Famine?
    Death?

  5. rq says

    dianne
    I really do believe that men change diapers better at 3AM. Personal experience. And tha’ts all that matters!

  6. carlie says

    Just ate one. It was pretty darned fantastic – very juicy and soft and sweet. But that’s my opinion of them after paying $5 for 9 pears. I don’t know if I’d be so keen on them for almost $4 each.

  7. rq says

    The world is ending? Yay! It’s middle brother’s name day. Saves me having to buy him a present. ;)

  8. rq says

    And everyone seems to be discussing pears. Well, I like them, especially the home-grown ones on Husband’s family farm. Good for the eating and good for the pies.
    That’s all I have for tonight! :)

  9. Matt Penfold says

    Pears ?

    Perry. Proper perry, not stuff made from concentrate. Like cider, but much much better.

  10. says

    Ironing? You know who does ironing the best? U.S. Marines. Also general house cleaning and floor buffing. I don’t know what the infantry or recon folks did to pass the time, but the rest of us did a lot of scrubbing and polishing and making sure our undies were pressed and folded to the exact proper dimensions. I had a complete set of uniforms that were ONLY for display and were never worn otherwise.

    FossilFishy, it looks the same out my window as what you’re describing, except that the temps are in Fahrenheit rather than Celsius.

  11. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Well, I got stocked up on food, got the snow thrower ready for when the Midwest storm comes through the Chiwaukee area tonight, and got a laugh from checking out why the Redhead was swearing at something. She was trying to select a DVD option using the cable box remote. She was hot to watch Hot in Cleveland, and getting hot she couldn’t select Hot. Oops, I think this will get me in hot water…

  12. rq says

    Imrpobable Joe
    What about early morning/late night diaper changes? /snark

    Anyway DAMMIT. I have about the equivalent of $2000 translating money waiting for me, but they can’t give it to me because they don’t have that much cash on hand. I suppose it’s time to become a small business. :/ Because then the bank transfer becomes legal.

    On that bittersweet note, I say good night. Hopefully tomorrow I’ll actually be that much richer.
    Doubt it, but it’s worth a shot – it would be the ultimate proof that the world is ending!

  13. Krasnaya Koshka says

    ImaginesABeach @ 490 – Making it to sons and daughters makes it better but I would still tweak it more:

    To my fictional children:

    1. Your sexual relationships are not my business. But I hope you take the time and listen to what your partners want.

    2. Play games. Win honorably, lose gracefully, respect the rules of the game, work with others, manage your time and have fun.

    3. If you pee other than in the toilet, clean it up. Same with poop. (If we’re talking games and sexual relationships? Is this something you give a newborn? Then I would erase all sexuality from it.)

    4. Put aside a savings account. Really start saving when you hit 30.

    5. Allow me to introduce you to the dishwasher, oven, washing machine, iron, vacuum, mop and broom. Now please go use them. (To me, this is weird. haven’t your kids already been introduced to these things? I’ve never had a dishwasher but this whole entry is freaky. I’ve had step-children and they cleaned up quite nicely. Is this directed to the infant? I don’t get it. So why talk about sex in the first entry?)

    6. Hone your empathy. Read and listen.

    7. You won’t ever be a bully if you follow 6.

    8. Your knowledge and education is something that nobody can take away from you. But don’t imagine those who can’t afford education are not as smart as you.

    9. Treat women as you would treat any human.

    10. Take some pride in your appearance (bathe and don’t stink).

    11. Be strong and tender at the same time. (Useless platitude. What does this mean?)

    12. A woman can do everything that you can do. This includes her having a successful career and you changing diapers at 3 A.M. Mutual respect is the key to a good relationship.

    13. “Yes ma’am” and “yes sir” still go a long way. I am not Atticus Finch nor am I Scout. (I hate being “yes ma’am”ed. “Okay” is much better.)

    14. The reason that they’re called “private parts” is because they’re “private”. Please do not scratch them in public. Again, is this being said to an infant child or an actual child? Is this so prevalent it needs to be said? Is this child being raised by wolves and then thrust into society?

    15. Your young friends have no idea what they’re talking about. Ignore them.

    16. Bringing her flowers for no reason is always a good idea. Except some women hate getting dead flowers. There is that.

    17. Be patriotic. Travel the world and see if your home is worth being patriotic about.

    18. Potty humor isn’t the only thing that’s humorous.–Again, is this so prevalent? My nephew is 17 and he never uses potty humor. So, is this for newborns? I can guarantee many years of potty humor for little kids .

    19. Please choose your spouse wisely. My daughter-in-law will be the gatekeeper for me spending time with you and my grandchildren.– One of the grossest ones here. The woman is the “gate-keeper”? How about she’s the one who gave birth to the child? If you’re a decent grandparent, chances are she’ll let you see the kid. (And I have a horrific sister-in-law, but my niece is allowed to see my mom. I am not because I’m a lesbian, and it’s infectious, doncha know.)

    20. Remember to call your mother because I might be missing you.

  14. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    I am going to be tired of soup by the next few days. Chicken noodle from Panera for lunch. Now I am eating Campbells potato soyp with some added sausage and cheese.

  15. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Beatrice, I love ironing like I love washing dishes. You have an immediate positive outcome. You have a wrinkled shirt and then voila! Crisp shirt! Same with dishes. The reward is immediate.

    I also really enjoy doing laundry. It’s very comforting to me.

    (I imagine Beatrice is asleep being it’s 3am here, fairly close to where she is.)

  16. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Krasnaya:
    Ummm whats so positive about wrinkly fingers after finishing the dishes?

  17. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Yes, “egg” is also slang for testicle in Russia. Our poor young Tosha cat is eleven months old and his second ball hasn’t dropped so he’ll have to have a more extensive neutering. Poor guy.

    “Tosha, where’s your other egg?” is what we ask him nearly daily.

  18. says

    Tony:

    Ummm whats so positive about wrinkly fingers after finishing the dishes?

    Ever hear of gloves? Mister has a pair of dishwashing gloves. Purple ones. I don’t bother with them.

  19. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Tony- hahaha! Wrinkly fingers. I rarely let dishes pile up more than two plates, some silverware and a cup but when we have friends over and my fingers do get wrinkly, I don’t notice. Although, that is the perfect time to cut my fingernails. I’m kind of a constant cleaner. A hummingbird with a sponge, perhaps. :)

    Hey, what do you think of Miami? Or Fort Lauderdale? Are you at all familiar? We’re there about twice a year and my gf is interested in night life (for older lesbians, I guess). We’ve only been to two gay clubs together–one in Atlanta, where she had a seizure and one in Prague, which was fun.

  20. dianne says

    I really do believe that men change diapers better at 3AM. Personal experience. And tha’ts all that matters!

    Matches my anecdote. Partner really did do most of the diaper changing. We’d decided to split baby input/output chores evenly. Not my fault the kid turned out to be a radical lactivist.

  21. dianne says

    Hone your empathy. Read and listen.

    Further suggested tweek: Some people’s natural “empathy” doesn’t work so well. You may have a hard time instinctively understanding what other people are thinking and feeling. If so, make an effort to consciously learn what signals mean what. It’s ok to break the rules of social convention, but make sure you’re doing it because you want to, not because you’re fumbling in the dark with no idea whether you are breaking them or not. Asperger’s syndrome is not an excuse for being a jerk. Nor does it make you a psychopath. People who say it does are wrong. And jerks.

    Ok, so that’s way too wordy. First draft.

  22. says

    Tony:

    Here’s a sample display of what a Marine’s locker should look like. That’s sloppy compared to mine… I used a ruler to space the hangers exactly the same distance apart from one end to the other, and ironing the T-shirts and underwear made them stack more neatly. Between inspections they’d all go in bags and then inside plastic storage bins.

    What else is there to do when you’ve got a five day week and only two days worth of work when there’s not a war on? Spit-shining the shower drain, that’s what.

  23. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Caine: i never remember to use gloves. I have plenty of them too…
    ****
    Krasnaya:
    You would hate our kitchen sink then. There is a wee bit more than a few plates.
    As for Miami and Ft Lauderdale, I’ve never been to either, but I hear they are fun party cities.

  24. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    I just decided to take a relaxing hot bath and realized that I cannot recall when I last did so (not counting hot tubs).

  25. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Speaking-maybe-of rats, the small one is asking for a pet for Christmas. Anyone have any thoughts on the relative merits of various small animal pets? Know any that can live alone and tolerate time by themselves? We could probably handle multiple very small animals (several mice or gerbils, maybe 2 rats or hamsters), but the getting left alone for hours at a time thing is inevitable…fish maybe?

    I’ve heard encouraging things about giant millipedes, but have not yet owned any. :(

  26. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Hi all.

    I am vacationing. At home, now, but will be heading to Florida (do not expect to hear from me from calendartypical Saturday to Calendartypical Saturday.

    Today, I wore flannel lined jeans (plaid flannel), flannel boxers, a flannel shirt, and a flannel-lined fleece shirt (plaid flannel). All the plaids were different colours. I spent the day in fear that some of the plaids were from clans that didn’t get along. I mean, I might be in danger of being kilt! Boy told me I had to learn to play four different bagpipes at once.

    I made sweet and sour pork tonight. Quite good.

    Saw The Hobbit. Enjoyed it, even with the additions to make it more of a prequel.

    I smoked a 5 Vegas Gold Limited Edition torpedo this morning. Smooth and creamy.

    I just got off the phone with my mortgage company and have things in place to be completely caught up on my mortgage by May without breaking the bank.

    I had a Saranac Red IPA with dinner. I plan to have a nice triple shot of Scotch this evening.

    On Saturday, I get to go get the oil changed, the alignment done, and (ouch!) four tyres.

    And I received Prothero’s book about the Cenozoic mammalian radiation.

    I feel better. Not good, but better.

  27. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Dianne @ 524 – Thank you. I forget that empathy is not so easy for everyone.

    When I was a kid I really wanted my super power to be (because I believed everyone was granted one–why, I don’t know) the ability to live as someone else for a day. I thought that would be the most amazing thing ever.

    My paternal grandma was “One hunnerd PER-Cent Missouri Sioux” (now I know only her father was Missouri Sioux, her mother was half-Irish half-Missouri Sioux) and she often sent me to the store to buy beer and Pall Malls.

    There was a man at the liquor store at the end of the street named Eduardo. He was missing legs. He always joked about his missing legs but I wanted to live as Eduardo for just one day. I wanted to understand. (White privilege, of course. Your life is a novelty to me. But, hey, I was maybe 9 years old.)

    I couldn’t. He would not tell me anything about his life and I could never have my super power.

  28. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Which one of cicely’s hooved friends is visiting you?
    War?
    Pestilence?
    Famine?
    Death?

    Worse. Soak showed up.

    all the Marines I know are good at waking up at 3AM, doing what needs doing, and going right back to sleep. :)

    The Army motto back in the day was, “We do more before 5:00am than most people do all day.” The part they dropped was, “And then we go back to bed.”

  29. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Ogvorbis, I’m pretty much a stranger but я люблю тебя and I think you’re amazing.

  30. Rumtopf says

    Hey I’m being apocalypsed too, it’s very dull.
    Dianne, rats are fine being left for hours provided you have more than one, which is the best/only good way to keep them anyway c: Give ‘em a large multi-level cage and lots of toys and they can amuse themselves while you’re out/asleep. I have a fatbutt curled up with me right now, her sister is off being mischievous but she’ll come running over when I call her is on my head.

    Otherwise I can also recommend an aquarium with dwarf freshwater shrimp, such as cherry shrimp. Grow a bunch of aquatic moss in there and they’ll have allll the babies, females carry their eggs around and they hatch into miniature versions of the adults. You can eventually keep a stable population of hundreds in a 50 litre tank, with enough cover you can keep fish and they won’t put much of a dent in the population(especially tiny fish like Boraras brigittae that can barely manage to eat shrimplets). I’ve got a good 150-200 between two heavily planted tanks and I love watching them, I’ve even witnessed interesting behaviours like moulting and mating.

  31. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Krasnaya Koshka:

    Имам ужасно страв дека, ако некој од вас всушност се запознае со мене во реалниот живот, мислење ќе се промени. Брзо.

  32. says

    Krasnaya Koshka:

    Caine, so’s cute!

    Hee. Thank you. They are having so much fun. We haven’t even gotten to the strings of pistachios yet! There will be more Ratmas Tree fun posts tomorrow, I took an awful lot of photos tonight. :D

  33. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Whoops. Sorry. Forgot we weren’t supposed to do that.

    I have this horrible fear that, if any of you actually meet me in real life, opinions would change. Quickly.

  34. carlie says

    I prefer the crisp ones to the juicy ones.

    That may be my problem – I usually don’t like pears at all, having only had the crispy ones.

    I had a Saranac Red IPA with dinner.

    A couple of weeks ago I had a Saranac caramel porter – winter issue only. It was divine.

  35. carlie says

    I have this horrible fear that, if any of you actually meet me in real life, opinions would change. Quickly.

    You do realize we’re all afraid of this ourselves as well, right?

  36. Ogvorbis: useless says

    A couple of weeks ago I had a Saranac caramel porter – winter issue only. It was divine

    The Saranac chocolate lager is very good, too.

  37. Ogvorbis: useless says

    You do realize we’re all afraid of this ourselves as well, right?

    But for all of you, it just sounds silly. It makes sense for me, though.

  38. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Ogvorbis, trust that I have met enough people in my life already that I can sense Really Good People. Trust me, if you don’t trust yourself.

    Not to minimize your fear but you are really good people. I think many people here agree with me. You can fall into us and we’ll hold you up as we see you. And we see you as someone who has so much to give, deserves so much, is really a lovely human being. We need more of you, my friend.

    Ogvorbis, please trust us. Again I’ll say я люблю тебя.

  39. carlie says

    But for all of you, it just sounds silly. It makes sense for me, though.

    Which is exactly what I think myself, too. :)

  40. says

    Oggie, it sounds silly* to us when you say stuff like that, and it makes sense when we feel that way about ourselves. Do I have to send you a snazzy hat to make you feel better? Because I will!

    Hell, you drink Scotch AND one of my favorite brands of beer… I feel like we’re almost family already. :)

  41. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Caine, pistachios! Who are the happiest rats in the world? That would be your sweet ratties. I love love love the photos.

  42. carlie says

    So, has anybody seen anything of ‘Tis since the incident? I wonder if he’s at least still reading along.

  43. Ogvorbis: useless says

    AND one of my favorite brands of beer

    You like Coors Light, too? And Keystone Light? Wow.

  44. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    This is outrageous. I cannot believe Ridley Scott is makimg a Showtime series called The Vatican:

    Director Ridley Scott may be 75 years old, but he has no plans to slow down anytime soon. After making a welcome return to the sci-fi genre with Prometheus, Scott dove right into directing the Cormac McCarthy-scripted drama The Counselor. Now, before he settles on his next feature film, Scott is set to make his first foray into television. EW reports that Scott will direct the pilot for a new Showtime series called The Vatican. Written by Paul Attanasio (House), the show is described as “a provocative contemporary genre thriller about spirituality, power and politics –set against the modern-day political machinations within the Catholic church. The series will explore the relationships and rivalries as well as the mysteries and miracles behind one of the world’s most hidden institutions.”

    http://collider.com/?cat=41

  45. says

    Krasnaya Koshka:

    Caine, pistachios! Who are the happiest rats in the world? That would be your sweet ratties. I love love love the photos.

    Aaaw, thank you! They have completely gone through the 3 lbs of walnuts we brought home for them. Have to get some more this weekend.

    Rumtopf:

    Caine, omg the cute! <3

    Thank you! The ratlets are all 6 months old this month, so Ratmas is rather special this year. :D

  46. says

    I need plates. I don’t own any plates. Can someone recommend me some cheap plates that won’t randomly explode into a thousand fragments if a cat looks at them funny?

  47. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Can someone recommend me some cheap plates that won’t randomly explode into a thousand fragments if a cat looks at them funny?

    Wife and I still have most of the Corel plates that we bought at an Ames store in Peterborough, NH, back in 1988. We lose less than one a year.

  48. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Ogvorbis, my friend, what are we all supposed to be? Are we all amazing cream of the crops, lazing about in a bit of fatty soup? No, we’re all just like you.

    I’m a lazy person living in Russia only because I fell in love with a machine of a woman who fell in love with me. I had to have knee surgery twice before I was 20 and then broke my back at 21. I’m highly prone to panic attacks and have been in the nut hut four times. I lost my last job because I got really drunk and punched out the VP of Human Resources, breaking my right pinkie. Which is still fucked up.

    I would be un-hireable (I’m too tired to give a shit) in America but I’m stupidly lucky.

    You just have to keep being and trying. And you’re wonderful

  49. Krasnaya Koshka says

    And I actually mean, I think you’re a bit better, having not punched out a director.

  50. carlie says

    The problem I have with Corelle is that when it does go, it goes big. Thousands of almost-invisible shards everywhere.

    I get a lot of my plates etc. at Goodwill/thrift stores. You can find some pretty awesome patterns sometimes, and they’re always really cheap.

  51. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, the snow portion of the winter storm has arrived, The outside temp is 32 ºF, and snow is beginning to accumulate on the black Probe.

  52. says

    I lost my last job because I got really drunk and punched out the VP of Human Resources, breaking my right pinkie.

    Hell, that just show’s you’re working for the wrong people. If I’d been in charge there, you’d have gotten a promotion out of that. Of course, I hate HR only marginally less than I loathe Marketing, but as far as I’m concerned any reasonable;t person would have to agree with me.

    Ogvorbis
    Although I’m sure that my mental picture of you is different enough to your real appearance that I’d be startled to meet you, but that’s really all.

  53. Ogvorbis: useless says

    having not punched out a director.

    I did break the jaw of a DI when I was in Basic Training in the Army. He, without warning me, showed how an experienced fighter could step inside the bayonet. I hit him in the jaw with my rifle butt. I did not get in trouble.

    Although I’m sure that my mental picture of you is different enough to your real appearance that I’d be startled to meet you, but that’s really all.

    I’d be the guy back east wearing a white Stetson straw hat during warm weather, or a brown felt cowboy had in cold weather. I tend to stand out.

  54. says

    Yeah, I’ve heard that Corelle shatters like a glass goblin, and their old reputation is no longer earned. I personally wouldn’t mind ANY dishes for day-to-day, but since my wife has to present them to her parents once a year(and me too), Goodwill is probably out unless I can find most of a set and pick up the missing stuff online. Shallow but there it is.

  55. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Thanks, Dalillama, Schmott Guy.

    I still don’t regret it, he was such a fucking asshole. First and last time I’ve ever been physically aggressive. I relive it every time I see my wonky pinkie.

    I knew I should have left years before but “wow, great money!” vs my entire being. Great money won,

  56. carlie says

    I’d be the guy back east wearing a white Stetson straw hat during warm weather, or a brown felt cowboy had in cold weather.

    I picture you as kind of rugged looking, but with kind crinkly eyes.

  57. Ogvorbis: useless says

    nd their old reputation is no longer earned

    Now that you mention it, the ones that have broken in the last few years are ones that were purchased later as replacements.

    We use plastic for cat dishes. Some of the human child toddler dinerwear works really well for felines.

  58. Rumtopf says

    ‘Daww half-birthday crimbo rats x3 I look forward to more adorable photos.
    We’re acquiring two 7-week-old rescue does to live with our current two in their rat-mansion(when they get big enough for the wide bar-spacing) tomorrow and I’m so excited! Then in the new year we have a couple of buck babies from a breeder that’ll be ready to come home, it’s been a while since we had boys and I miss their lazy cuddliness. More is certainly merrier when it comes to ratties.

  59. dianne says

    When I was a kid I really wanted my super power to be (because I believed everyone was granted one–why, I don’t know) the ability to live as someone else for a day. I thought that would be the most amazing thing ever.

    Ever seen the movie “Being John Malkovitch”?

    I’d like that superpower too, but if I could pick one, I think I’d go with eternal life and youth. Or is that two? Heck, I’ll take just life. I’m cool with getting very, very wrinkled. I’ve always been more the crone type than the maiden type anyway.

  60. dianne says

    More seriously, don’t beat yourself up over wanting to experience Eduardo’s life for a day. You were a kid trying to understand life. He was different and interesting. It’s natural to be attracted to that. Critiquing the social situation is good, but don’t get angry at your 9 year old self who was, after all, just a kid.

  61. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq

    I did not know you were a firefighting lawyer. You are officially My New Hero.

    Aw shucks. You sound like my sister. She says that stuff all the time, gives me the warm fuzzies.

    carlie
    Yep, about four and a half years now, I’ve been a volunteer. : )

    Pear recipes: I was drooling over this yesterday and wishing I had some pears. : )

    FossilFishy

    I’m sorry dianne I can’t hear you what with me being all apocalypsed and all…

    *ha!*

    Nerd

    ot the snow thrower ready for when the Midwest storm comes through the Chiwaukee area tonight

    Batten down the hatches!

    Krasnaya Koshka

    Is this so prevalent it needs to be said?

    As the pseudo-stepparent of a six year old boy, yes, it needs to be said.

    Ogvorbis
    Glad you feel better.

    Joe
    You never know what you might find at Goodwill, so it’s worth a shot. Someone may have decided to donate a set they got as a duplicative gift, and so they never took it out of the box and it’s lovely. :) Alternatively, some local thrift shops are even cheaper that GW and you can find great stuff.

    -=======-

    As you may have gleaned from the long comment, I am back at home with power restored. We were just in the process of setting up a warming center with coffee and cots when the power company truck showed up on the block and started working.

  62. says

    OK, I was pretty close. Your face is a bit rounder, though, I was picturing a more drawn out triangular sort of face. I tend to wear an old slouch hat in pretty much any weather, which is just as authentically a ‘cowboy’ hat as yours, too. So there. :)

  63. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Dalillama:

    That ain’t any of me cowboy hats. That’s the summer (straw) flat hat. During the winter, we have a greyish (or grayish) brown flat hat. The first caretakers of Yellowstone National Park was the US 7th Cavalry (yes, that 7th Cav) and we kinda inherited the ~1920 US Army uniform, complete with the campaign hat (but minus the jodhpurs).

  64. says

    Ogvorbis
    Well, there you go then. It’s probably more like a historical cowboy hat than the ones you do call that; a whole lot of cowboys were cavalry veterans after all, and a good hat is a good hat. Slouch hats of the style I wear were part of Army uniformes from the Civil War at least though to the 30s, and as late as Vietnam many troopers apparently still wore them in preference to the official uniform hats. A good one keeps rain, snow, and sun alike off of your head, and they last a good long time.

  65. says

    Ogvorbis, you’re quite handsome. And no, I’m not just sayin’, I mean it, so just accept the compliment. ♥

    Rumtopf:


    Daww half-birthday crimbo rats x3 I look forward to more adorable photos.

    Check Rattitude, it’s updated regularly. There are even pics of the ratlets the days they were born (both sets, Esme’s & Rubin’s.) Quite honestly, I never in my life expected to have 24 of the little monsters at one time, but we’re used to it now. It will be very strange indeed to go back to our usual two to four rats at one time.

    We’re acquiring two 7-week-old rescue does to live with our current two in their rat-mansion(when they get big enough for the wide bar-spacing) tomorrow and I’m so excited!

    Ohhhh! I still remember bringing Esme home, she was 6 weeks and so *tiny*. I miss her something fierce. (She died when her ratlets were 3 weeks old, she was only 10 months herself.) The little girls are always special – ours certainly keep me busy and on my toes.

    Then in the new year we have a couple of buck babies from a breeder that’ll be ready to come home, it’s been a while since we had boys and I miss their lazy cuddliness. More is certainly merrier when it comes to ratties.

    Gotta love the boys, too. Maybe it’s the volume we have, but they aren’t nearly lazy enough. :D Ours live more in a colony setting, though, allowed to free range in a very large area. Although they are now all having a nice sleep, so I’m thoroughly enjoying the quiet for now.

  66. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    In my personal life I’m waiting for concrete to dry. In my professional life I’m waiting for Loctite 7471 primer to dry. I really wish I’d paid attention when they were teaching patience in primary school.

    Ogvorbis: For what it’s worth every time I post here I have a little frisson of fear that this time I’m going to say something stupid and piss everyone off to the point where I will no longer be welcome to post. Every fucking time.

  67. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    I worry I’m not encouraging, engaging, or interesting enough. *shrug* We’s all gots our insecurities, I suppose.

  68. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    And posting the above gave me a big dose of “Everyone will just nod when they read that.” This is spiraling, ha. But hip hip hooray SO just said he’s on his way to my house, the storm having let up just enough . We were planning to have an Usmas tonight since we will be separated for Christmas. I’m all warm and fuzzy. Oh crap…have to wrap his presents.

  69. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Gah, when will this cold be gone? I haven’t gotten worse, but haven’t gotten better. I’m supposed to have a date tonight, and even though I told him I was under the weather, he said he still wanted to meet. I just dont know how much fun I will be feeling under the weather.
    ****

    What are you people putting your plateware through? All this talk of quality plates. Isn’t a plate a plate?

  70. says

    Portia:

    And posting the above gave me a big dose of “Everyone will just nod when they read that.”

    One of the nice aspects of Pharyngula is that, if anyone actually thought that about you, you would have most likely heard about it by now. Short form: You have nothing to worry about.

  71. says

    Tony, we’re a bit behind you weather-wise here in the ‘Burg, but the rain just hit. I’m sure the cold is right behind it. I hope you can manage to have a good time anyway. Besides, being a bit under the weather is a great excuse to find a quiet spot and talk, without the need to be too much fun.

    Ogvorbis,
    I know you don’t know me from Adam (a religious reference I haven’t found a good replacement for), but when your ‘nym comes up in the “recent comments” bar, I have learned that it’s well worth my while to click it.

    Re: plates. We got some of ours at target, and some at ikea. They’re stoneware, so they don’t fare well against terrazzo, but nothing does. We’ve even had plastic crack. If you have hard floors like ours, it makes a lot more sense to have mostly dispoble stuff.

    Portia, I nodded.

    Well, chickens are asleep, dogs are on possum patrol, the house is cleanish, i have more dna extractions to do in the morning, and it’s raining. Bedtime.

  72. says

    Hello! I have 4 hours of work left until I’m off on Xmas holiday! How much time can I waste on pharyngula?

    Also, I have just booked a week on Kangaroo Island for me & my best mate. My bloke will be staying home to feed the cats, and then I reciprocate when he goes off to Vietnam with his best mate a couple of weeks later.

  73. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    MikeG:
    The thing is, I have a sore throat. It’s at that scratchy point, so I have been avoiding talking today. I am happy I don’t have a fever or the behind the eyes pounding, but I am a bit off my game. Ah well, we shall see.

  74. says

    I like that, Alethea. Now it’s just a matter of re-training myself.

    Though I do use other mythological references from time to time, I’d like to minimize christian ones. subvert the dominant paradigm and all that.

  75. says

    Ah, Tony, I didn’t know there might be talking problems. That may put a crimp in my alternative. how is your handwrighting?

    Caine, I’m glad the Mister likes it. I haven’t found anything as easy to use. It’s point and peep. As for never being around, I can only read at work, but not post, and during the field season, and the following data crunching season, I don’t have much energy left in the evenings to post. Plus MsG (heh, that’s amusing, I think i’ll use that) is going for her MLA, so more of the domestic stuff falls to me during the crunch times of the semester. Besides, by the time I get home, three other people have said what I wanted to say, only more coherently and persuasively.

    Anyway, even though I don’t participate as much as I would like, y’all have taught me a lot (autocorrect won’t let me leave it as one word, heh) and I enjoy the hell out of this community. Thanks to all.

  76. cicely (Chock-full of Nuts!) says

    …fish maybe?

    For many years I was valet to the office’s 30 gallon fish tank, and the occupants thereof.
     
    Fish are pretty. I like to watch them swim. I like to “landscape” their living space.
     
    But.
     
    Keeping the tank clean is a huge hassle; long, tedious, messy. The algae eaters never seemed to be adequate to the job. The fish would catch something, need medicating, and throw the chemical balance all outa whack—then resort to cannibalism. The air pump, and the heater, and the filtration system, would break down for no damn reason at all—usually over weekends and holidays.
     
    I like the fish we have now; they’re colorful, don’t eat much, and are otherwise completely trouble-free.
     
    Because I painted them that way.
     
    (They don’t even object to being stapled onto wires—they are Just. That. AWESOME.)
    -

    14. The reason that they’re called “private parts” is because they’re “private”. Please do not scratch them in public.

    And don’t flop them out into the mashed potatoes. That’s just rude.
    -

    Really men are MUCH better at changing diapers at 3 am than women. It’s just in their genes: hunting, making bad jokes, changing diapers at 3 am.

    Literal lols.
    :D :D :D

    Which brings me to an ancillary piece of advice: beware of people who tell you that you’re “naturally” better at something. They’re trying to limit you or get you to do the dirty work.Or, more often, both.

    Very important piece of advice, this. It would make a nice tee shirt. Or poster, or embroidered wall hanging.
    -

    Look I don’t have much time. I have to warn you all. The horror is great…they were right they WERE RIGHT!!!1!!!!11!1! Over most of Australia…no I can’t perhaps its better to not know…fuck it I must. Today TODAY the sun came up and and and it’s a beautiful summer day, the cicadas are crying out in their despair or perhaps their horniness and magpies are singing “waddle giggle gargle gaggle poodle” and no no NO I can’t go on, its too horrible….an expect high of 30c and light winds…goodbye dear sweet friends its been great knowing you….

    Additional lol-someness.
    :D :D :D
    -

    I’m sorry dianne I can’t hear you what with me being all apocalypsed and all…

    Apocollapsed?
    -

  77. says

    Portia
    I was nodding in agreement with your post as I feel exactly the same way; I tend to agonize over whether to post something because “Why would that matter to anyone else?” or “Well, who gives a shit, really.” etc. So, I feel you. If it helps, you’ve made me laugh here and there, so there’s that.

    Tony
    I’m right there with you on the persistent cold with sore throat. I’ve just had a relapse, after three days where I thought it was gone.

  78. dianne says

    @596: We have goldfish. Very hardy critters. And able to cope with a little algae. Of course, now the critter wants a betta, which is a warm water fish…potentially trickier.

  79. Rumtopf says

    Caine
    Aaaa I’ve been looking at Rattitude, I’m extremely jealous and I haven’t even gotten to the baby pictures yet x3. In all my years of rat keeping(since I was a wee 9 year old) I think the most I had was 16, after taking in a pregnant rescue Doe years ago. It was hard work but I miss the huge rat piles and those guys were all so tame after being held daily from birth, the worst part about keeping litters is that they all go around the same time :c. I’m very sorry about your Esme.
    I looove your rat playstation by the way! I need to get some wire covers so ours can roam the entire bedroom rather than part of it, methinks, and we have some old drawers that could be converted into play shelves. I already have a climbing frame of sorts for ours, made from cheapy wooden wine bottle racks. You have totally inspired me xD.
    Ooh, and if you wanna see some adorable bebbies, here are some photos/vidyas of the litter we’re having boys from. Eeee!

  80. Rumtopf says

    Dianne
    I have a betta as well, named Lister(small and red, eheheh). He’s my little kitchen counter buddy and he wiggles for whoever does the washing up :D

  81. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Alethea, I hear you get to Kangaroo Island via Ferry Penguins. Is this true?

    I’ll get my hat…

  82. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Fear not MikeG, there’s plenty of punishment to go around!

  83. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Portia:
    You need to just kick those insecurities to the curb. You are interesting ya know? You’ve been supportive of me (and others) several times. There are no requirements or quotas here. You do not have to show support for someone five times a month or say something interesting once a day. Just be yourself. From what I can see you is good peeps.
    Now, no more insecure thoughts or Imma start pelting some pastries!

  84. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    rorschach – *hugs and chocolate*

    carlie – Get well soon.

    Katherine – Snuggling kitties and playing games sounds like a great way to spend Christmas.

  85. cicely (Chock-full of Nuts!) says

    Which one of cicely’s hooved friends is visiting you?
    War?
    Pestilence?
    Famine?
    Death?

    Taxes???
     
    And they are not my friends. rq is their friend. And is probably conspiring with Them to frame me.
    -
    I loathe housework in all its myriad forms. It never stays done, and leaves me with a sense of time wasted that could have been spent reading.
    -

    Ummm whats so positive about wrinkly fingers after finishing the dishes?

    Ever hear of gloves? Mister has a pair of dishwashing gloves. Purple ones. I don’t bother with them.

    My problem with gloves for dish washing is that I need to be able to feel the dish surfaces for otherwise hard-to-detect food residues. Can’t touch that…in gloves.
    -

    [...]a radical lactivist.

    Even more lols. Clearly, this is a great night to be hanging out in the [Lounge].
    -

    Boy told me I had to learn to play four different bagpipes at once.

    YouTube video, or it won’t have happened.
    -

    Worse. Soak showed up.

    And then all chaos broke out!
    -

    I have this horrible fear that, if any of you actually meet me in real life, opinions would change. Quickly.

    Doubtful. The Pharyngulites I’ve met so far have uniformly (yet individually) been awesome.
    -

    Not to minimize your fear but you are really good people. I think many people here agree with me. You can fall into us and we’ll hold you up as we see you. And we see you as someone who has so much to give, deserves so much, is really a lovely human being. We need more of you, my friend.

    Yes. THIS. Ogvorbis, be told!
    :)
    -

    Can someone recommend me some cheap plates that won’t randomly explode into a thousand fragments if a cat looks at them funny?

    I went with Corelle. They’ve held up really well, these last 35+ years—I think I’ve managed to break one cereal bowl and one saucer. And I notice that you can often get stacks of ‘em, for cheap, at flea markets.
     
    (Later) Huh. When mine broke, they each broke into two neat halves. I guess it’s true that they just don’t make ‘em like they used to.
    -

    We’s all gots our insecurities, I suppose.

    I know I do. Yes, indeedy!
    -

    handwrighting

    Making of hands???
    -

    Alpacalypsed

    *snortle*
    -

  86. says

    Rumtopf:

    Ooh, and if you wanna see some adorable bebbies, here are some photos/vidyas of the litter we’re having boys from. Eeee!

    Ohhhh. Oh my. They are gorgeous! So. Damn. Cute.

  87. MissEla says

    Tried posting in another thread and it hasn’t shown up yet, so I’m trying one here. Feel free to ignore this post! :)

  88. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Hope everyone is doing well, celebrating the end of the world with appropriate drinks and food, and warmth, for those in the snowpocalypse zone.

    I had horrible news today. My mother is planning to come out and spend two weeks here for my birthday at the end of January. *whimper*

    Because that’s exactly what I wanted — two weeks trapped in a small apartment with a woman I can never please, who always indundates me with criticism and useless advice — while balancing a full load of classes (three of which are writing-intensives), plus homework, plus part-time work, plus two committees.

    I tried talking her out of it, since I’ll have next to no time to spend with her (not to mention I already had plans for my b-day), but she couldn’t be arsed to listen to me and busily chattered about all the things she wants to do “in the city” while she’s here. Like meet my professors. And go to the zoo…

    I didn’t even know we had a zoo in Fargo! That’s how busy I am.

    I’m almost hoping tomorrow’s the end of the world just so I won’t have to deal with this.
    — —
    ironing: I don’t own an iron and haven’t in years. Too many years spent ironing sheets for ^^ that woman to ever again want to own anything that needs pressing. If the wrinkles won’t come out after a few minutes in the dryer with a wet towel, then I don’t wear it.


    Krasnaya Koshka:

    14. The reason that they’re called “private parts” is because they’re “private”. Please do not scratch them in public. Again, is this being said to an infant child or an actual child? Is this so prevalent it needs to be said? Is this child being raised by wolves and then thrust into society?

    As the mother of two adult sons, I said this more times to them as pre-teens and teens than I want to think about. I don’t know why, (I don’t want to know why), but there seemed to be constant doubt that things were where they left them.

    18. Potty humor isn’t the only thing that’s humorous.–Again, is this so prevalent?

    Three words: Judd Apatow movies.

    Portia:

    And posting the above gave me a big dose of “Everyone will just nod when they read that.”

    Ayup, I nodded.

    Enjoy Usmas!

    Alethea:
    Many belated thanks for the help with SPSS a couple months ago! Not only did I figure out what I was doing wrong (and how to do what I wanted) thanks to you, but I proved 4 of my 5 hypotheses.

    Tony:
    Hope you’re feeling better soon!

  89. says

    Socio-gen:

    I tried talking her out of it, since I’ll have next to no time to spend with her (not to mention I already had plans for my b-day), but she couldn’t be arsed to listen to me

    Call her back and tell her that upon reflection, given that you won’t have personal time and she wishes to see this, that and the other, she’ll have to stay in a hotel.

  90. bluentx says

    So many in the Lounge getting sick: Who knew you could be exposed via USB?*

    *If this is an old, worn interwebs joke just ignore me. I’ll be the one in the corner with “Easily Amused” ** t-shirt on.Unlike some, I also still chuckle at ‘internets’ being awarded and keyboard/monitor replacement demands. So sue me.

    ** Ogvorbis’ fashion roundup kilt me! Yeah, I saw what ya did.

  91. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Ok, so bluentx will be joining Louis as pat of the entertainment comittee of The Commune.

  92. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Please read ‘pat’ in my above comment in a deep USian southern drawl. It will sound like ‘part’.

  93. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    As the mother of two adult sons, I said this more times to them as pre-teens and teens than I want to think about. I don’t know why, (I don’t want to know why), but there seemed to be constant doubt that things were where they left them.

    I’ve never quite understood the reasoning behind demanding that people just ignore significant physical discomfort that’s often threatening, in light of experience, to turn into actual pain with one slight wrong move, for the sake of appearances.

  94. bluentx says

    Tony:

    Well, I do declare. I am ahnud, Suh.

    And since you’re sick of soup shall I just send the Nyquil USB Express?
    Hope you (all) feel better soon.

  95. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    bluentx:
    I read that in Sookie Stackhouse’s voice. Or Rogue by way of Anna Paquin.

  96. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Call her back and tell her that upon reflection, given that you won’t have personal time and she wishes to see this, that and the other, she’ll have to stay in a hotel.

    I tried. Unfortunately, I turn into a 14-year-old when I have to talk to her, so my sad little attempts to get her to cancel her plans were easily turned aside with “oh, it won’t be any trouble,” “I won’t get in your way at all,” and “I’m perfectly happy waiting for any little bit of time you can bother to give me in these last years of my life.”

    *sigh* I’m such a wet noodle.

    Azkyroth:

    I’ve never quite understood the reasoning behind demanding that people just ignore significant physical discomfort that’s often threatening, in light of experience, to turn into actual pain with one slight wrong move, for the sake of appearances.

    It wasn’t so much asking them to ignore it as requesting they not stick their hands down their pants and fiddle around for several minutes in the living room while the relatives were visiting. Excuse yourself, go in another room, do whatever you’ve got to do, and please, wash your hands afterward.

  97. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    It wasn’t so much asking them to ignore it as requesting they not stick their hands down their pants and fiddle around for several minutes in the living room while the relatives were visiting. Excuse yourself, go in another room, do whatever you’ve got to do, and please, wash your hands afterward.

    Well, that wasn’t so much aimed at you specifically, but the problem I’ve had is that getting up, partially excusing yourself, freezing suddenly with a bug-eyed expression, and muttering “OW FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK OW FUCK” while limping sideways into the next room is ALSO considered “not polite.”

  98. says

    Socio-gen:

    Excuse yourself, go in another room, do whatever you’ve got to do, and please, wash your hands afterward.

    I thank you for that, most seriously. For whatever reason, an awful lot of men, especially young ones, seem to think it’s perfectly okay to be scratching, handling or fiddling with their genitals in public.

    It’s not okay. If you aren’t in a room by yourself, having sex or in a restroom, keep your effing hands off the twig and berries, please. Honestly, I don’t see why this is difficult to grok. If you don’t wank in public, don’t scritch or fiddle in public, either.

    (It’s not like women don’t have their moments of itchiness or finding themselves in need of rearranging things. Somehow, you don’t see women all over scritchin’ away.)

  99. says

    Ugh. Hugs to socio-gen. I am glad I was able to be helpful way back when.

    Meanwhile, I am delighted that I have no family visiting for Xmas. Except for the sad part where I have no decent family, but would not change even if they visited. I am relieved that the Narcissist Supreme Dweller in Her Own Reality and her off-sider the Golden Child Passive Aggressive Little Ms Snippy Entitlement will not be visiting.

    They also do not take no for an answer. If they had decided to visit, then they would. I did manage to shunt them off to a hotel once, for my housewarming, by making the booking for them and driving them over there. They had turned up unannounced and every spare bed in the house was pre-booked.

  100. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    I don’t think telling people they’re supposed to just be in pain because their doing something about it offends one’s sensibilities is really appropriate for the lounge, frankly.

  101. says

    I don’t think telling people they’re supposed to just be in pain because their doing something about it offends one’s sensibilities is really appropriate for the lounge, frankly.

    I didn’t tell anyone any such thing. When I’m in a conversation with a man and he starts fiddling with his penis, it’s a damn sight more than impolite. I do not want my attention brought to his genitals, I don’t want to think about his genitals and how, exactly, is any woman supposed to know just why he started fiddling with them in the middle of a conversation?

    This is not about serious medical problems which should be attended to promptly by a qualified person.

  102. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Caine:
    I’m not sure if it’s a sign of the times, fashion styles, or just my campus, but it seems like a lot of young women are quite comfortable readjusting things in public as well. Thankfully, no scratching as yet.

    Alethea:
    I’m sure this little trip is more about her. Not sure what’s spurring it, but I sincerely doubt it’s any desire to spend time with me, even in her “last years” (she’s 62, for pete’s sake!). My bitter inner child suspects she’s realized there are people who don’t know what a terrible disappointment I am and she feels called to rectify this immediately.

    Luckily, I’ll get to spend Xmas day hanging out with my lovely atheist cousins, and most of my winter break will consist of curling up on the couch with a pot of tea and reading various books from the TBR pile that I’ve ignored the last few months.

    Speaking of which, I think I’ll go tuck myself in and do a little reading before bed.

  103. Lofty says

    Tony et al: sore throats: last year I thought about vitamin C and it’s application to reducing cold symptoms (reputed to have some effect at large doses). So I tried sucking them as lozenges, not swallowing. Let the vitamin enhanced saliva slide past the buggy patch on your throat. Maybe it’s the acidity? Makes your throat taste awful but this is definitely more successful than expensive lozenges. Some nights I go to bed with a sore throat plus a vitC pill tucked in the cheek and wake up OK whereas I used to go down with a full cold for sure.
    Cheers all and I hope y’all survive your post-apocalyptic world.

  104. bluentx says

    It got so quiet in The Lounge I thought: Crap! The apocalypse did happen and TEXAS was spared!!!???

    Thank FSM my fears are unfounded.*

    Disclaimer: On night shift sometimes entertaining yourself can go to extremes.

  105. says

    last year I thought about vitamin C and it’s application to reducing cold symptoms (reputed to have some effect at large doses)

    Oh god, not that nonsense again, and it’s all Linus Pauling’s fault. Debunked.

  106. bluentx says

    Thanks, rorschach, for the link. Love Quackwatch but hadn’t seen that page. Bookmarked for further analysis.

  107. says

    Rainbow trouts can make their own Vitamin C(so can many other animals), and they get sick and get cancer. You’d think if VC had any effect in high doses, that would have been selected for in those animals.

  108. Lofty says

    Rohrsach: yeah OK , I’ll pay that. I don’t take vitamin C in large doses anyway, just curious why it works better on sore throats than anything else I’ve ever tried. I’m talking of one 250mg pill here.

  109. StevoR, fallible human being says

    @445.Krasnaya Koshka

    Wait, isn’t Australia already well into December 21st? Where are our beloved correspondents?

    Reading this thread. Not an apocalpyse in sight. 6.38 pm local time.

    Clear blue sky outside still some time till sunset and not expecting anything.

    Of course, I’ve already lived through quote a few “apocalypses” with a couple just this year alone -Harold Camping was this year right?

  110. Lofty says

    StevoR, I told off the kookaburras and magpies this morning, such levity is inappropriate in a post apocalyptic world.

  111. says

    I note that the USA is about to commit economical suicide by political dysfunction shortly. The Republicans have gone on holiday, and the whole economy is about to go over the cliff. Quite astounding to watch.

  112. chigau (違う) says

    I cannot catch-up right now but I hope everyone has weathered the Stupidity Storm.
    also
    Sean of the Dead is fucking brilliant.

  113. rq says

    Good morning to those who have thus far survived the End of the World!
    Wait, we’re all here? Fewf.

    Socio-gen
    *hugs*
    I have a small idea of how you feel except it’s my dad and it’s not as bad now that I’m older and with kids of my own. But I still feel about 12 when I talk to him, like I have to justify everything and my reasons are always wrong…

    self-worth and commenting here
    Everyone who said they’re constantly terrified of commenting here due to saying something wrong and being kicked off or being afraid of meeting fellow commenters in real life and hating them – take a drink. No, take three.
    I was reading through all those comments and thinking to myself, How odd! We’re all so scared for ourselves and of each other, and yet here we are, confessing to all kinds of things, in company, and discovering many fears to be unfounded… Doesn’t stop anyone from being afraid, I don’t think (at least not right away), but it was an interesting reflection, considering I’m also constantly afraid of saying the wrong thing, and, upon meeting one (or all of you) in real life, either (a) you won’t like me, or (b) I won’t like you. As for Improbable Joe and Ogvorbis, should they ever meet, they can just sit silently and drink beer in one another’s company. You know, like real men (who, come to think of it, probably don’t talk to each other because they’re afraid of not being liked/not liking). Heck, maybe we should all do just that, just in case someone says the wrong thing… No? Excellent. (Some /snark involved in previous comments.)

    +++

    Dalillama
    Returning to your comments about French yesterday. I have a few words about your opinion of quebecois. Now, I admit that I do not know in what context you need a translation of Fiddler’s Green, but honestly it pisses me off, all these people for whom quebecois French is not real French. Those kinds of people exist in real life, too – I’ve met them.
    But here’s the thing. The grammar in quebecois is the same as the grammar in other French. Like English has more or less universal accepted rules. When I mentioned quebecois it was in the context of the grammatical phrasing of Le Verger menetrier, not vocabulary, since I’m pretty sure most ‘correct’ vocabulary out there is of the “real” French-French kind. But. Since you got gazon from an old, old dictionary, then you might be interested to know that using quebecois French vocabulary in a historical context is actually more correct.
    Because language, you know. The French they speak in Quebec is derivative of the French of the 18th century (or something, and one fairly specific dialect), and as most languages split off from the original, they struggle to maintain some sort of ‘authentic’ feel, like maintaining original vocabulary.
    Latvian is a fine example of this linguistic diaspora effect: My Latvian wasn’t ‘real’ Latvian because I used the vocabulary and some sentence structure from pre-war (WWII) Latvia (and the language police is very strict around here; I resist). Latvian-Latvian has become heavily russified through the effects of the occupation – different language rhythm, very different vocabulary (which causes it to be not accepted by American and Canadian Latvians). There are enclaves of Latvians in Russia who speak that Latvian (vocabulary, some syntax) from the 19th century. Now, Latvian is rapidly moving away from russification and steadily into anglicisation (which I, personally, think is terrible, but language). A heavy germanic effect is also still felt. What’s next? Who knows? I just know that, generally speaking, the basic rules of grammar are the same across the board – it’s mainly the vocabulary that’s changing.
    What’s the point? The point is lost somewhere in the sentences above, but I feel a bit insulted that you would consider someone knowing quebecois French as knowing an inferior form of French. If you’re worried about vocabulary, go with what you find on the internet, then. But if you want a more rustic feel to the French, I would recommend using quebecois.
    Again, I don’t know the context in which you asked about the translation. But I hope you figured it out. :)

  114. bluentx says

    And then there was 12:02 am Jan. 1.2000. Phone rings.
    Me: Water treatment plant…
    City Administrator: Everything okay?
    Me: (trying not to laugh): Everything’s fine, not a glitch.

    I REALLY wanted to day: “Just partyin’ like it’s 1999.” It would’ve been redundant though. He could probably hear the radio in the background. Prince wasn’t finished with the song they started promptly at midnight.

  115. John Morales says

    rq:

    self-worth and commenting here
    Everyone who said they’re constantly terrified of commenting here due to saying something wrong and being kicked off or being afraid of meeting fellow commenters in real life and hating them – take a drink.

    Bear in mind that this is the Lounge; once upon a time, every thread was policed about as much as the Thunderdome now is.

    (Many a thing has been written here to which I might have had a… um, snarky response — were it not that the rules preclude it. Some in this very thread)

  116. says

    Everyone who said they’re constantly terrified of commenting here due to saying something wrong and being kicked off or being afraid of meeting fellow commenters in real life and hating them – take a drink.

    Doesn’t even need drinks. I’ve met quite a few of the commenters over the years. And they were all nice and interesting and great to talk to. Even windy, who has since turned to the dark side.

  117. rq says

    John Morales
    From what I understand, some snark is allowed, but meanness isn’t…?
    In any case, hooray for the new rules; I doubt I would be here without them.

  118. bluentx says

    Good morning rq.
    First, thanks for asking ‘The Question’ that prompted Dana’s article.Now I can brush up on my volcano knowledge with one-stop-shopping (well, with links).

    No True French Fallacy? Yeah, but have you heard the cries about Louisiana French?! Okay, maybe they have a point: a little Spanish, a little this, a little that…Kinda like a Justin Wilson recipe

    Unfortunately, I don’t remember much LF as I haven’t lived there since I was ten.:(

  119. says

    Wow, you really seem to be busy posting when I’m really busy preparing for the Apocalypse Christmas.

    beatrice
    Thankfully I could dump the ironing on my mum in law. It’s an old agreement that comes from the days when Mr. was living in what resembled a dorm for young workers but was already earning about as much as his parents combined. Now, my mum in law kind of likes ironing and, well, we need to support them financially anyway and that way she doesn’t feel like she needs to beg. Win-win all around.
    And no, nothing drops off when men iron.

    Krasnaya Koshka
    We just talked about fathers and children last night. Mr. has taken a few days off before christmas since he has to work between christmas and new years eve, but I still had to work/go to college, so it was his task bringing the kids to kindergarten, picking them up, taking them to ballet and such. And some of the other children in kg told him almost defiantly that their dad will pcik them uo, too!
    For them, kindergarten, their friends and later school is such a big part of their lives and how sad if daddy doesn’t give a shit about it.

    5. Allow me to introduce you to the dishwasher, oven, washing machine, iron, vacuum, mop and broom. Now please go use them. (To me, this is weird. haven’t your kids already been introduced to these things? I’ve never had a dishwasher but this whole entry is freaky. I’ve had step-children and they cleaned up quite nicely. Is this directed to the infant? I don’t get it. So why talk about sex in the first entry?)

    Well, there’s still many families where mum does it all. Clean clothes arrive magically in the wardrobe, dirty ones disappear over night. I remember once working with a young man at a coffee stand for a charity. It’s not that he didn’t drink coffee, in which case I could have understood, but at one moment he really asked me “coffee is all gone, what do I do now?”

    Again, is this being said to an infant child or an actual child? Is this so prevalent it needs to be said? Is this child being raised by wolves and then thrust into society?

    Well, we actually had to explain to #1 several times that while there’s nothing wrong with giving yourself a little rub down there, it’s nothing you should do at kindergarten lunch :)

    In general I’d say that it’s something written by adults for other adults to pat themselves on the back…

    rq
    Wow, you really celebrate name-days? Makes picking a name much harder….

    dianne

    Matches my anecdote. Partner really did do most of the diaper changing. We’d decided to split baby input/output chores evenly. Not my fault the kid turned out to be a radical lactivist.

    Kind of the same here. OK, with Mr. gone during the week it was still mostly my business, but I hardly ever changed a diaper at the weekend.

    Ogvorbis
    Have a good trip!

    Socio-Gen
    I know that’s easier said than done, but: your apartment, your rules.
    Really, nobody who actually cares about the person they’re visiting would impose themselves onto them.

  120. rq says

    Giliell
    Not so much as celebrate as have a reason to have cake and sweets (which we usually limit). But, since it’s my middle brother and he’s an adult now, I can just congratulate him and get on with my day. ;) I’m just glad he’s in town, it’s strange how much better I feel, even though I know he’ll only be a few days.

    bluentx
    No, not the No True French fallacy… the ALL-TRUE French. Otherwise, any English with a funny accent wouldn’t be English anymore, and hey, who defines ‘funny accent’? (Australians and Texans, begone!) :) There’s no ‘inferior’ language ([aside] not even Louisiana French – just a completely different historical context of language development; over even more time, it’ll probably separate even more – heck, the whole first Indo-European language is so fragmented now, we’re all speaking different languages!). There’s accepted language and then there’s dialects, which are sometimes looked down on because they sound ‘funny’, but they often hold very interesting kernels of history and can shine a light on what the older, common language, may have looked like.
    (No, I don’t actually know a lot about this stuff; I’ve just done a bit of reading, a couple of second-year linguistics courses and drawn some conclusions from personal experience. For all I know, I’m dead wrong about everything!)
    Yeah, I hang out at ETEV a lot. When PZ writes about crazy shit happening in the world or when I read too much Ophelia Benson, I go there and read about volcanos and geology to calm down. Or I come here.

  121. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    From memory:

    I’se the By that builds the boats
    And I’se the by that sails ‘em
    I’s the by that catches the fish
    And brings them home to Lizza.

    Sigh. Are you trying to make me homesick* rq?

    *Strange for a west coast boy but there it ’tis.

  122. rq says

    FossilFishy
    No, not on purpose… Do you know any west-coast songs? I only know a few east-coasters. I’m feeling a bit homesick, actually, that may be why I’m so quick to jump on the Canadian/Quebecois* French thing and the Newfie songs. *sigh*
    And he brings them home to Lizer (I assume, Eliza?).

    *not the same thing!

  123. rq says

    *Dah, I meant Canadian French and Quebecois French are not necessarily the same thing! (Kind of the sparrows-birds; birds-sparrows idea. Unless you’re a die-hard Quebec Separatist. :) )

  124. carlie says

    Got up, got child up, child still sick, let child stay home, child goes downstairs to sleep, cat decides to be on stairs right then, trips child, child falls the rest of the way down to the landing.
    *sigh*

    Child now on couch with icepacks and ibuprofen. I hope today does not continue in this vein.

  125. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    I’m ashamed to admit I don’t know any traditional west coast songs. But that’s no real surprise, the west coast’s caucasian history is pretty brief compared to the east.

    But I’ll give you a pseudo-traditional west coast song. I too grew up on the North Shore and I drank in all the pubs mention, bar one that had closed by the time I appeared old enough to be drinking.

    The Crawl by Spirit of the West.

  126. bluentx says

    ‘Texans, begone !” :
    Well, thankfullyI’m not one-I just live here. It’s a very snooty club: “If you wern’t born here you cain’t be a REAL Texan!” Uh, Okay.I’m not much into arrogance anyway, thanks.
    My parents made me move here (at 10), family obligations kept me here (my siblings- all REAL Texans, by the way, moved out of state) I stayed to help my parents in their elder years.Now I’m just too tired (and broke) to move. Except, of course, to The Commune when logistics are ironed out. (Worked the ironing theme in finally!)

    Note to all: Expect mistakes above.On my laptop now, and it seems to have a mind of it’s own-especially with punctuation. Apologies,

  127. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Oh dear carlie. Here’s hoping things get better from here.

  128. rq says

    carlie :( I hope things improve! Damn those cats, sometimes… I hope child feels ok/better soon!!

    FossilFishy
    Unfortunately, the song for which I know Spirit of the West is this one. (I think you can guess.)

  129. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    bluentx, my in-laws live on a farm in rural Australia. One day my mother-in-law mentions “the locals”. “How long have you lived here?” I ask.
    “Twenty five years.”
    “Uhm, aren’t you a local by now?”
    “Never. There isn’t a lane around here with our family name.”

  130. carlie says

    Thanks everyone – he’s back in bed now. We’re both glad he pitched forward instead of sideways – it’s a split stair, and we’ve not had a handrail on it since we moved in, so he could have gone over the side edge to the lower set. We keep meaning to get one put in, but the cost of having someone make and install a wood rail is more than we’ve had available to do so at any given time. I’m not even sure if it’s contractors or woodworkers who do that sort of thing. Our last cat was smart enough to know not to sit on the stairs. This one is a little more oblivious.

  131. bluentx says

    I’ve been told (really) I CAN’T be from Louisiana or Texas because I don’t talk funny enough.

    I’m just a nonconformist! Anarchy! Yep, that’s me.

  132. AshPlant says

    Morning Hordies! Unsurprisingly, I woke up to find that:

    That was a failure.
    I’m making a note here: HUGE SURPRISE!!!1!!.
    It’s hard to overstate my underwhelmence.
    Apocalypses
    They’re always a bust
    Mayan or Christian.
    To the shock of none of us.
    Except the ones who are thick.
    But there’s no sense crying over every mistake.
    You just make an excuse and “work out” the *right* date.
    And your Science gets done.
    No, I just said that for fun
    And for the people who are still alive.
    I’m not even angry.
    I’m being so sincere right now.
    It was good, you made me laugh.
    Near-killed me.
    We tore you to pieces.
    And turned every piece into a meme.
    If you really believed then I am just so sorry for you!
    Now these myriad end-dates make a beautiful line.
    And we missed our fate and
    We still seem to have time.
    And the Earth didn’t burn
    Nibiru did not return
    And the people are all still alive.
    Go on, let us mock you.
    I’m sure you prefer to feel sincere.
    Maybe you’ll make numerology work for you.
    Maybe the next time.
    THAT WAS A JOKE.
    HAHA. FAT CHANCE.
    Anyway, this life is great.
    It’s so delicious and moist.
    Look at me still talking
    when I don’t even know you.
    When I think about it, it makes me GLaD that’s not true.
    I’d have to up and run.
    If I knew someone that dumb.
    Someone surprised they are still alive.
    But we all knew we’d be still alive.
    I checked; the science said I’m still alive.
    I feel FANTASTIC and I’m still alive.
    While you’re crying I’ll go for a walk
    And come back to check on your blustery talk
    Because I’m still alive
    Still alive
    Still alive.

  133. ImaginesABeach says

    Someone asked about the advice to child including “here’s the washing machine” – There are lots of people who are surprised when I mention it is BoyChild’s turn to do the laundry and GirlChild’s turn to clean the kitchen (or vice versa). BoyChild is 11, GirlChild is 13, and apparently people don’t think that kids that age should know how to do these chores. I just tell them that when I send my kids out into the Real World, they are, by golly, going to know how to take care of themselves. They also vacuum, sweep, etc.

  134. bluentx says

    FossilFishy:
    Uh-huh. My parents lived in this town 27 years (Mom) and 31 years (Dad). Always said they felt like outsiders,
    I moved back to help Dad after Mom died.
    Had a conversation with one of the ‘prominent citizens’ my parents always complained about. She wasn’t born here either (married in). She said almost the exact same words I always heard from my parents: “I’ve never felt accepted here.”

    Kinda stunned me.

  135. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Stairs be trixy beasts at the best of times carlie. Add an ambulatory foot stool and you’re just asking for trouble.

    A curved stair featured prominently on one of the more difficult moments in my relationship with Mrs. Fishy. I had crashed my bike and broken my arm quite badly. It required surgery to fix. A couple of days after being bolted back together I’m coming down the stairs, fatigued from lack of sleep, constant pain and the lingering effects of the anaesthetic to the point of being stupefied. I slipped. I slide the rest of the way down the stairs on my ass, broken arm waving over my head as I struggled to keep from ripping stitches or bending the newly installed plate. As I’m laying at the bottom, sobbing in despair and fear because I can’t imagine taking any more of this, and knowing that I have no choice, Mrs. Fishy comes over and yells at me for scaring her.

    Today it’s an amusing piece of family history, at the time it was….not.

  136. says

    HI there

    carlie
    Oh no, I’m sorry for your son. Hope he didn’t hurt himself too badly.

    kids and chores
    This morning the kids helped to unload the dishwasher. They regularly help cooking and I leave #1′s clean underwear and PJ’s on the bed and expect them to be moved into appropriate drawers.

  137. bluentx says

    ImaginesABeach:

    “…when I send my kids out into the Real World, they are, by golly, going to know how to take care of themselves.”

    R’men! and good for you!

    I flailed around for so long (still doing it :finances,etc.) because “girls didn’t need to know THAT” or my brother: “his wife will do that”. Aaargh! My parents were very old school. Bless (so to speak) parents like you!

  138. carlie says

    Oh, fossilfishy, I’m so sorry to hear! I did a head-over-footer last year down a whole flight of stairs at my parents’ house without a broken arm, and it hurt like hell for a couple of weeks. It was about 4:30 am in the dark, and as I was lying in the crumpled heap at the bottom the first thing I did was say “I’m ok!” like I was some sort of stuntwoman genius. My mom (who was the only one to wake up to the crash and come see if I was ok, btw) then said that she’d had nightmares of me falling down those stairs, even though I didn’t live there. This is how clumsy I am, first that my mom’s subconscious would insert me having an accident on her stairs even though I’m there a max. of about 7 days a year … and then that I would follow through and actually do it.

  139. carlie says

    and I leave #1′s clean underwear and PJ’s on the bed and expect them to be moved into appropriate drawers.

    Hm, maybe that’s the trick. We leave ours on the kids’ chair, and somehow they then move straight onto the children without ever touching the dresser or closet.

  140. rq says

    ImaginesABeach
    Yes to that. I can’t imagine them not knowing such practical, useful things, and yet be expected to survive in the world without their mother – oh wait, I’m supposed to be on call for life…
    But they already love to vaccuum (not very well, but they like it), and they like to help with cooking, and also to dishes. I have a great photo of eldest at about a year and a half doing the dishes with Husband. Middle boy helps with the laundry – sort it and carry it and put it in, and then add appropriate powders.

    Giliell
    Yeah, I’ve started with the udnerwear and pyjamas too, since those seem easiest to sort. And I haven’t had any problems yet! (Also putting their own dirty laundry in the hamper or finding their own clean clothes – saves me the trouble of fetching 5 or 10 shirts for middle child because they don’t adhere to his sense of fashion.)

    bluentx
    Just for future reference, the phrase ‘Bless your heart’ around here seems to have a fairly negative connotation. ;) As in, lots and lots of sarcasm and snark.

    FossilFishy
    I know it wasn’t funny at the time, but I had a laugh about that story. Poor you, and poor Mrs Fishy… I suppose it’s the same reason why parents yell at children who have wandered off and been found again. I hope the arm healed well!

  141. bluentx says

    Annnd:
    Tomorrow’s (today, now) another day.(Neener-Neener doomsdayers!)

    So better get some zzzz’s.

    G’night and G’mornin’…

  142. rq says

    carlie
    Perhaps if children’s clothing is in permanent rotation, you can just dispense of shelves and drawers… Save space, no? :)

  143. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    A couple of days ago the Small Fry volunteered to take the small indoor recycling bin out to the big outdoor one. Mrs Fishy was understandably chuffed and said “Thank you so much, that’s very helpful.” and basked in the glow of a parenting coup.

    Seconds later SF comes charging back in holding a fist full of her kinder paintings that Mrs. Fishy and put in the recycling.

    “MOMMMM! How would you feel if I threw out your things!?”

    Really, there’s no coming back from that without being a hypocrite. Ah well, on the upside she’s internalised the arguments from compassion that we’ve been using on her to the point where she can use them appropriately. :)

  144. bluentx says

    One more:

    rq:

    I know: ergo the “so to speak”.

    Must find that explaination of what “Bless your heart” really means in the ‘Merican south–but later.

    Now really: G & G…

  145. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Thanks carlie and rq. I’m okay now, the surgery was a complete success and my relationship survived too.

    Come to think of it I have a really bad history with stairs.

    My band used to play this tiny club that was atop two flights of stairs. After the gig I was carrying my amp down the stairs to the van and I caught my heal on the edge of the middle landing. This amp was a beast. It weighed around 40kg (90lbs). I didn’t go over right away. I teetered on the edge for a couple of seconds struggling to keep upright. By the time I gave up and let the amp go it was too late for me.

    I have this really clear memory of the amp hitting a step, bouncing into the air as the top split off spraying vacuum tubes all over the place. The next thing I knew I was laying in the wreckage at the bottom of the stairs with a band mate standing over me. He looks down and says “I guess the first question is are you okay?’

    You guess, you GUESS!? It was at that moment I knew that this band would never make it. Not with me in it anyway. Because if I had to spend any more time in a van with him than it took to get across town there was going to be a murder.

    You know, I’m really glad that the new house is only going to have one story.

  146. rq says

    I have never fallen down stairs. I once came close to it, though, while carrying a stroller (with child in it). Only 6 steps, but concrete. :/

  147. rq says

    For reference, here and here. Is this a new form of woo?
    (I do like walking around barefoot… But… Really? Heal diseases? All of you with flu, out in the snow, bare feet, now!)

    By the way. A bunch of you came down with the flu via USB following the return of blf and the mildly deranged penguin. Coincidence?
    Or a failure to nuke from space?

  148. says

    carlie

    Hm, maybe that’s the trick. We leave ours on the kids’ chair, and somehow they then move straight onto the children without ever touching the dresser or closet.

    *mumble*
    That’s mostly what happens with mystuff.
    Part of my chronical problem of space in the wardrobe is my refusal to throw out the nice stuff in size 12…

    stairs
    Most prominent fall was when I was pregnant with #1. I threw everything away and managed to break the fall with my hands before my butt hit the stairs.

  149. Matt Penfold says

    Anyone here heard of earthing?

    In what context ?

    There is earthing is respect of electrical circuits, and of lightning. There is also some woo stuff to do with walking around barefoot.

  150. Matt Penfold says

    For reference, here and here. Is this a new form of woo?
    (I do like walking around barefoot… But… Really? Heal diseases? All of you with flu, out in the snow, bare feet, now!)

    Missed your follow up comment when I replied earlier. I have heard of it, but not sure how new it is. I suspect like many things Woo is has been around a while but is now fashionable amongst the credulous and gullible.

  151. Ogvorbis: useless says

    Holy shit. I just discovered something scary. J. Vacula is ‘local’ to me. An article from WNEP16 News:

    WILKES-BARRE — One day after a group protesting religious decorations in Public Square paid city officials to place a banner on a sculpture, a man that said he is angry with the message cut it down.

    Justin Vacula said that he paid the city $50 to hang the banner from the Freedom From Religion Foundation for a week, as a public protest against the city for allowing a Christmas tree, nativity scene and menorah to be prominently displayed on public property.

    “There are no Gods, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only but the natural world. Religion is myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds,” said Vacula. “No messages, religious or a-religious, should be placed in Public Square. But until the religious messages are still available, we’re going to put up a-religious messages in protest.”

    Vacula said he and other members tried buying advertisements with the word “Atheism” to be placed on the sides of COLTS buses in Lackawanna County in March, but the County of Lackawanna Transit System board of directors said any religious message is against its advertising policy.

    Several people who were working or shopping in downtown Wilkes-Barre and saw the banner told Newswatch 16 that they were offended by the group’s message.

    “It’s a shame that someone has to protrude such hatred on such a beautiful holiday season, just because they don’t have the same thoughts or ideas as the majority of people who live in the area,” said Alyson Bartoloma.

    Shortly before 4 p.m. on Thursday, a man who identified himself as Joe McDonald climbed about 30 feet up the sculpture, cut two wires holding one end of the banner, and left it dangling in the wind alongside an American flag that he had placed on the scaffolding.

    “I just think in the light of the elementary school massacre in Connecticut, that we shouldn’t be divided as a country over petty stuff like is there a God or isn’t there a God,” said McDonald. “If they wanted to put the sign down here with us, that’s fine because we’re united. But to put it above everybody? No, it’s symbolic.”

    Vacula said he plans on reporting the incident to the Wilkes-Barre police department.

    And, of course, the comments are something to behold. http://wnep.com/2012/12/20/man-cuts-down-banner-protesting-religious-decorations/

  152. says

    I always wake up with just enough time to catch the tail-end of a conversation… drat.

    You know how I knew Virginia was cursed for me? I fell down the back porch stairs the first week I was there, walking the dog. There were wet fallen leaves and it was dark, and I slipped and my hip hit the top step and then I slid down the stairs with the dog dragging me the whole time. I had a bruise the size of a basketball running up my lower back and down my asscheek, and I still have a divot in my hip a year later.

  153. says

    Just got up, and the Lounge was jumping last night, it looks like.
    rq

    The French they speak in Quebec is derivative of the French of the 18th century

    This is true, but substantially meaningless. All French dialects spoken outside of France are derivative of 18th Century French, and more particularly of certain dialects thereof, but none are substantially closer to it than ‘standard’ French (Quebecois is also not substantially farther from it either, although some other modern dialects of French are, as they’ve had significantly more mixing with local languages).

    but I feel a bit insulted that you would consider someone knowing quebecois French as knowing an inferior form of French.

    Not inferior, just anachronistic. The context I was looking for is for a game that I’m running set in the 16th century; some Quebecois vocabulary is novel to that dialect, and it would not even have begun to exist in the time I’m looking for, so I’m trying to avoid it.
    re: Earthing. It’s not that new, it’s been around a few decades at least.

    Musical interlude: for Fossilfishy Hogeye Man (hogeyes were, among other things, barges making a run to San Francisco).
    Back to Newfoundland, because I really like Silly Wizard: The Ferryland Sealer

    carlie
    Sympathies for child.

    re:chores
    When I was younger, us kids took turns washing dishes, although we didn’t have to do our own laundry until our teens. When we complained about it, we were told that when one of us made dinner, then mom and dad would do them. And when we did, they did, too.

  154. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Thanks, Dalillama, Socio-gen, et al for the commiseration. Another of the reasons I love it here.

    Tony, I’m a pastry fiend, you might need a new threat!! But really, thank you for the reassurance to my whining : )

    Socio-gen: Usmas was good, except it was interrupted by a pointless fire call. A semi driver thought his truck was going to tip over where he parked it in the scales. It wasn’t. We went, we looked, confirmed it wasn’t going to move, confirmed there was nothing we could do to right it, and went home.

    *sigh* I’m such a wet noodle.

    Ugh, that sounds so familiar. So hard to stand up for yourself when your polite efforts at setting boundaries are being ignored.

    carlie
    Oh man, injury on top of illness, no fun : (

    -=====-

    Stairs: I fell down the stairs at SO’s a full year ago this week, come to think of it. My coccyx still hurts me if I sit wrong.

    -=====-

    Do y’all wanna know what the end of the world sounds like to a rural, undermanned fire department? It’s what I woke up to this morning:
    “[redacted] County calling [redacted] Fire Department, you have two calls.”
    Yeesh, thanks for that, county.
    Everyone is ok at the end, I think . We managed to cut a sweet old lady out of an SUV with the jaws of life and before they put her on the backboard she said to me:
    “That door was tough, huh?” I said “Yeah it was a lil stubborn” and she says “That’s what we call Ford Tough”

    -====-

    I drove an officer’s personal vehicle back to the station because he drove the ambulance to the hospital. He just called to scold me for not leaving his keys in the right place. I should have said “Hey, you’re welcome for taking your truck back.”

  155. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Guess who?

    People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given to them by their bodily identity, that serves as a defining element of the human being. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man’s fundamental choice where he himself is concerned. When freedom to be creative becomes the freedom to create oneself, then necessarily the Maker himself is denied and ultimately man too is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God.

  156. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Lofty:
    T likes to take Vitamin C supplements when she feels sick. The last time she did so, I decided to check if that was effective for treating colds. Both Cochrane.org and WebMD state that there is little benefit to taking Vitamin C for the prevention of colds. There appears to be some debate over how effective it is at alleviating symptoms of the common cold, but no conclusive evidence has been found.
    Vitamin C may work to shorten the duration of the common cold if you are an extremely active athlete. T is a distance bicyclist and personal trainer, so she may indeed see benefits. Me, for all that I work out…I am not certain how effective it would be.

  157. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    carlie:
    So glad your son is ok.
    ****
    Ogvorbis:
    Justin fucking Vacula is in your area? Remember rq’s advice earlier? Take a drink or three. There is a desert island with his name on it. Thats where he belongs.

  158. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    I am happy that so many parents are raising self sufficient children. I am so happy my parents taught my sister and I how to iron, wash n dry clothes, clean, cook, etc. These skills have been tremendously beneficial.

  159. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    The simple fact that people have been buying more assault weapons and there has been a an up tick in the joining the NRA gives me more reasons to hate my species.

    These fools are allowing their own fears to make them support the very people who helped to create the assault weapons saturated society we live in.

    Fucking street gang made semi-respectable.

  160. says

    “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”

    … even if you grant that it is a reasonable thought, it isn’t even true. Usually what stops a bad guy with a gun is the bad guy shooting himself. What’s worse is that it isn’t reasonable, because maybe what we need to worry about is preventing the bad guy from getting the gun in the first place? That’s like saying “the only thing that stops you from dying when you fall off a skyscraper is a parachute”… might even be true, but shouldn’t we prevent people from falling off skyscrapers, rather than looking for a solution to a preventable problem?

  161. carlie says

    I am so happy my parents taught my sister and I how to iron, wash n dry clothes, clean, cook, etc.

    There was an interesting conversation I had with a couple of other women my age awhile ago wherein we all learned that, although we were raised in entirely different cultures and parts of the globe, we had all learned how to iron from our mothers by first learning how to iron our dad’s/grandpa’s handkerchiefs. All partriarchy overtones/undertones/giant capital letters of context aside, it was a weird little bonding moment. :D

  162. says

    Or, more to the point: when a family is killed by a drunk driver, we GO AFTER DRUNK DRIVERS! We don’t advocate that everyone else wear helmets when they drive.

  163. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Good-ish morning! I’m trying to talk myself into bundling up and going to the store. You know it’s cold outside when you find yourself actually attempting to calculate how much toilet paper is left on the roll because you don’t want to go out for more.
    — —
    bluentx:

    It got so quiet in The Lounge I thought: Crap! The apocalypse did happen and TEXAS was spared!!!???

    That would be like a reverse-Apocalypse with a toe-loop…or something.

    chigau:

    Sean of the Dead is fucking brilliant.

    Oooh…haven’t watched that in a long time. *wonders if Netflix has it* Nope. DVD only. Bugger.

    rq:
    Thanks. Unfortunately, with my mother, getting older and having kids just gave her more things to tell me I was doing wrong.

    I’m working on a plan, however. Either I’m going to be offered a marvelous short-term study opportunity in another state, or I’m going to make my FWB move in with me, because I know she won’t stay here if she thinks I’m “living in sin.”

    Giliell:

    Well, there’s still many families where mum does it all. Clean clothes arrive magically in the wardrobe, dirty ones disappear over night.

    And, in the US, the cult of true motherhood is raging. “Real mothers” must do simply everything for their precious spawn, devoting their entire existence to housekeeping and child-wrangling. And you’re a terrible, selfish human being if you do otherwise.

    Really, nobody who actually cares about the person they’re visiting would impose themselves onto them.

    True. Unfortunately, my mother is a bulldozer…and I’m a daisy.

    carlie:
    Ouch! Hope child feels better, in all ways, soon!

    FossilFishy:
    In my part of Pennsylvania, you aren’t considered local unless you’re a second- or third-generation resident — and family connections are the primary topic when meeting strangers. My cousin’s wife moved there when she was a toddler. They just had their first grandchild, and when my aunt introduced her to a long-lost friend who’d come to the baby shower, she said the wife was “the daughter of those city folks who moved into the Barnes house.” That was 50 years ago.

    ImaginesABeach:
    Mine were all doing their own laundry and rotating the day-to-day chores by age 14 or so. (Partly because I wanted them to be self-sufficient as adults, partly because I didn’t want to be stuck doing all the work.)

    Ogvorbis:
    Yeah. Vacula’s the reason I never bothered looking into the NEPA Freethought group, even if it hadn’t been two hours away.

    I didn’t even bother reading the comments. Same ol’ redneck stuff: “God great. Atheists evil. Liberals icky!”

    Portia:
    Nothing quite wakes you up like tones going off. (Er, assuming your county uses pagers.) Love your patient’s response!

    My brother mentioned on FB that their county comm center did this morning’s announcements/tower test with REM playing in the background.

  164. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Yup, nice loud pager tones, great way to start the day : )

    Ha, REM, nice!

  165. Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ says

    Janine @701:
    Stop the presses.
    The alpacalypse HAS arrived.
    The comments at your link are *gasp* …reasonable. Quite a few of them.

  166. dianne says

    I wrote a more detailed version of this in the Thunderdome because I was worried that it was inappropriate for the lounge, but since the issue has come up…

    Want armed guards in the schools? Fine, let’s have them. But we need competent armed guards. And competent armed guards are gonna cost. Furthermore, since the armed guards are an acknowledgement that the schools are dangerous, the teachers will need hazard pay. That means more cost. Where’s the money coming from? The 1%. Increase taxes on those making $250K or more as needed to pay for the armed guards and the teachers’ pay increases. If there are no people with the appropriate income in the school district, appropriate it from other districts or nationally as needed.

    The one thing that scares conservatives more than the idea that they might be separated from their distorted phallic symbols is the idea that they might be separated from their unearned money. Threaten that and they’ll throw the poorer redneck arm of the party under the bus.

  167. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Tony, I linked to Boing Boing. It is not like I linked to the Free Republic or NRO.

    Go there. I dare you.

  168. opposablethumbs says

    Commiserations to Carlie’s kid, that sounded pretty frightening. Glad xe’s ok, though.

    I’m a bit ‘rupt; just wanted to say hi and also yay for nobody being alpacalypsed; hugs to all who need hugs and would accept one of mine.

    I’ve got a lousy head cold and work to do, so I’m feeling a bit sorry for myself. I totally have that “why write about that who could possibly be interested???” thing going on too; like everyone else, I know that this does not really apply to others but does apply to me.

  169. Gregory Greenwood says

    I don’t know whether or not everyone is already aware opf this, but Pope Palpatine is at it again. This time, he is having a go at the legalisation of gay marriage and slipping in a little vile transphobia while he is at it. Here is the particular paragraph where he spews his papal bigotry;

    The Chief Rabbi of France, Gilles Bernheim, has shown in a very detailed and profoundly moving study that the attack we are currently experiencing on the true structure of the family, made up of father, mother, and child, goes much deeper. While up to now we regarded a false understanding of the nature of human freedom as one cause of the crisis of the family, it is now becoming clear that the very notion of being – of what being human really means – is being called into question. He quotes the famous saying of Simone de Beauvoir: “one is not born a woman, one becomes so” (on ne naît pas femme, on le devient). These words lay the foundation for what is put forward today under the term “gender” as a new philosophy of sexuality. According to this philosophy, sex is no longer a given element of nature, that man has to accept and personally make sense of: it is a social role that we choose for ourselves, while in the past it was chosen for us by society. The profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious. People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given by their bodily identity, that serves as a defining element of the human being. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. According to the biblical creation account, being created by God as male and female pertains to the essence of the human creature. This duality is an essential aspect of what being human is all about, as ordained by God. This very duality as something previously given is what is now disputed. The words of the creation account: “male and female he created them” (Gen 1:27) no longer apply. No, what applies now is this: it was not God who created them male and female – hitherto society did this, now we decide for ourselves. Man and woman as created realities, as the nature of the human being, no longer exist. Man calls his nature into question. From now on he is merely spirit and will. The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man’s fundamental choice where he himself is concerned. From now on there is only the abstract human being, who chooses for himself what his nature is to be. Man and woman in their created state as complementary versions of what it means to be human are disputed. But if there is no pre-ordained duality of man and woman in creation, then neither is the family any longer a reality established by creation. Likewise, the child has lost the place he had occupied hitherto and the dignity pertaining to him. Bernheim shows that now, perforce, from being a subject of rights, the child has become an object to which people have a right and which they have a right to obtain. When the freedom to be creative becomes the freedom to create oneself, then necessarily the Maker himself is denied and ultimately man too is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God, as the image of God at the core of his being. The defence of the family is about man himself. And it becomes clear that when God is denied, human dignity also disappears. Whoever defends God is defending man.

    ‘True’ gender identity is imposed by his psychotic god now? That is certainly news to me…

    One of the most frightening parts to my mind is the passage where he states;

    This duality is an essential aspect of what being human is all about, as ordained by God. This very duality as something previously given is what is now disputed. The words of the creation account: “male and female he created them” (Gen 1:27) no longer apply. No, what applies now is this: it was not God who created them male and female – hitherto society did this, now we decide for ourselves. Man and woman as created realities, as the nature of the human being, no longer exist. Man calls his nature into question. From now on he is merely spirit and will. The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man’s fundamental choice where he himself is concerned.

    (Emphasis added)

    Here he describes homosexuality and the existence transexual people as the social equivalent of environmental degradation caused by pollution and other related factors. That sounds worryingly close to an outright declaration of an eliminationist position – if one reduces harmful ‘manipulation of nature’ with regard to the environment by reducing or removing pollution caused by irresponsible industry, then how should one tackle the supposedly harmful ‘manipulation of nature’* with regard to gender and gender identity caused by this notional denial of ‘ordained’ gender identity handed down by the sky fairy, if the analogy is to hold?

    He is not quite advocating ‘re-education camps’, but he is not exactly a million miles away from such a position either.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    * Warning – major naturalistic fallacy alert.

  170. says

    Oh, hey, so that was the pope that Janine quoted earlier. Like I said, it all runs together in my head. After a few sentences of that kind of dribble the linguistic processors in my brain shut down in self defence and it becomes a wall of meaningless chicken scratchings.

  171. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    ‘True’ gender identity is imposed by his psychotic god now? That is certainly news to me…

    What about those whose “true” gender identity is intersexed?

    Oh, right, they do not really exist. “Male” and “Female” are two separate categories and never shall they be mixed, except in order to breed.

  172. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Dalillama, you could not feel the moral authority just flowing from those words.

    Why do you think that even non catholics takes him seriously as a moral arbitrator?

    (It is a good thing that you cannot hear my suppressed laughter.)

  173. cicely (Chock-full of Nuts!) says

    [...]a woman I can never please, who always indundates me with criticism and useless advice[...]

    I had no idea we were siblings!
    -
    Dalillama: Doesn’t count unless it’s Ogvorbis doing it. :)
    -

    “To me, that stand your ground rule … people are twisting it. He’s twisting it. I walked in to get a pizza and I got shot … I’m hoping the law prevails. We’ll see.”

    Yeah. Who’d’ve thought that something like that would ever happen?
    </sarcasm>
    -

    Unfortunately, I turn into a 14-year-old when I have to talk to her, so my sad little attempts to get her to cancel her plans were easily turned aside with “oh, it won’t be any trouble,” “I won’t get in your way at all,” and “I’m perfectly happy waiting for any little bit of time you can bother to give me in these last years of my life.”

    Of course she knows where all the buttons are. After all, she installed them.
    -

    (Many a thing has been written here to which I might have had a… um, snarky response — were it not that the rules preclude it. Some in this very thread)

    Wait…what? Is this meant to be a snark-free environment? I don’ wanna go!
    -
    carlie, I hope the rest of your day will be free of further cat-astrophe.
    -

    “Origin of life emerged from cell membrane bioenergetics” http://phys.org/news/2012-12-life-emerged-cell-membrane-bioenergetics.html
    Hmm… anyone here interested in commenting?

    I would be interested in reading a conversation about it…but am not qualified to comment.
    -

  174. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Of course she knows where all the buttons are. After all, she installed them.

    I can’t recall where I’ve read this before, but every time, it’s like an epiphany.

  175. rq says

    Dalillama
    I think menetrier in that case works because if it’s older than the separation, it’ll be correct.
    Also, according to etymonline, the word violin is from 1570, yet the word it’s derived from – viola – is from the 1700s… Does that mean it only refers to what we understand to be a viola from that time period, or did the word come into being in that time? I was trying to look into the word violoneux, because it sounds a bit too clumsy for me. Also, menetrier has that informal, quasi-rustic, commoner feel to it, same as fiddler.
    Also, I wrote this morning’s reply not quite feeling myself, so if I came across as argumentative, I apologize. I tend to react a bit sharply to someone looking down on a language (or just sounding like it, as the case may be :P) because I still deal with it quite a bit in day-to-day life (or at least on those days when I have to deal with people outside of the direct family circle).
    And yes, anachronistic is a good word for quebecois.

  176. rq says

    Socio-gen
    Live in sin! Live in sin!!! That way she’s much more likely to look into the hotel deal… Right? She won’t come stay with you to teach you the error of your ways…? *hugs*
    Parents. Sometimes, having kids of your own drives them away, sometimes it pulls them closer… I’m glad mine went the way they went. I still keep expecting the (I believe inevitable) When will you teach them about god and jesus? questions. I fear the day.

  177. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq
    Thankfully, my mom has gotten much better over the years, compared to my adolescence. She really tries to avoid guilt tripping me or pressuring me or inconveniencing me in any way. My sister forgot her birthday last year, and her friend asked if it made her feel bad. She said it would only have made her feel bad if my sister had felt bad for forgetting. And she wasn’t even doing a martyr act.

    …but still, when we do have a brief tiff, yeah…buttons…

  178. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Actually, it seems that the gunman murder three people before he was killed. Three troopers were injured.

    Watch as we exploit this news.

  179. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Oh, yes, I forgot to cast my vote for living in sin, Socio-gen. :D That’s a great plan. And since you and FWB were outed by his knowing where your tools are (IIRC?) there’s no reason not to.

  180. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Holy shit, Janine, that’s scary. The NRA will doubtless miss the irony. No wake-up call is loud enough for those jackwads.

  181. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Portia, the solution is simple. We need armed volunteers on every corner. Because only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun.

  182. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Oh right! *smacks forehead* how silly of me! Moar instruments of terror, destruction and death will necessarily result in less terror, destruction and death! Derp!

  183. Socio-gen, something something... says

    cicely:

    Of course she knows where all the buttons are. After all, she installed them.

    That actually makes me feel so much better! It’s not that I’m a wet noodle, it’s that I’ve been conditioned.

    Portia
    Same here.

    Janine:
    How sad is it that I’m not even shocked? Fuck the fucking NRA.

    rq:
    I think that’s the option I’ll go with, because (and, I admit, it’s childish), it’ll drive her up the wall.

    It would be pretend, since he and I are quite happy maintaining separate homes and hanging out as our schedules allow, but my mother won’t know that unless she actually visits. And, if she still comes out, even knowing she’ll be in a hotel and putting up with my not-even-hidden sex life…. I can make it worth his while to never, ever leave me alone with her. :)

  184. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    bhahahahaha I love the plan, Socio-gen! So diabolical, so effective.

  185. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Portia:
    Actually that was a different FWB from a few years ago, but the mere idea that I might (still) be having sex without even considering marriage? That never stops pissing her off.

  186. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Welp… it’s almost 1pm and as warm as it’s going to get for today (feels like +6 F…yay.) Time to pile on the layers and head to the store.

    Have a great afternoon [or time of day where you are]!

  187. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Take care, Socio-gen. I’m working up my gumption to do the same thing. It’s not quite as cold here several hours south but it is icy as heck

  188. Beatrice says

    Portia,

    I’m sorry. I’m going to pray to God Zeus Tpyos Goddess Cthulhu someone in repentance.

  189. says

    Hey folks,

    Today is the big day… I finally get my furniture and personal belongings out of storage! The truck should be here in the next 2-3 hours, and I have until after Xmas to unpack it all. Yay!

  190. Beatrice says

    Tony,
    I’m not going to be Holly Shoop’s shoople!

    —-
    Ms Daisy Cutter,

    Hello! Nice to read you again.

  191. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Cleaning my room, I found sewing needles and lost a knitting needle. Sigh.

  192. Beatrice says

    Ms Daisy Cuter,

    Please say hello to Happiestsadist, I haven’t seen them around in a while.

  193. rq says

    Tony, are you trolling for worship? :P

    Beatrice
    I’m having some doubts, too. Probably have to wait until the next day rolls around for everyone on earth, then we can watch it all come to an end.

    Improbable Joe
    Excellent news on the furniture!

  194. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    *cough* I paint *cough*

    So does my mom. She does portraits from photographs, in pastel. She does really lovely work, and her commissions are pretty reasonable.

  195. Gregory Greenwood says

    Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞ @ 713;

    Seriously dude…I just ate!

    Sorry about that. Pope Palpatine is enough to put anyone off their food.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Dalillama, Schmott Guy @ 714;

    Oh, hey, so that was the pope that Janine quoted earlier. Like I said, it all runs together in my head. After a few sentences of that kind of dribble the linguistic processors in my brain shut down in self defence and it becomes a wall of meaningless chicken scratchings.

    If only more people felt the same way. Sadly, millions around the world hang on every pronouncement of the nasty old bigot with baited breath.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Janine: Hallucinating Liar @ 715;

    What about those whose “true” gender identity is intersexed?

    Oh, right, they do not really exist. “Male” and “Female” are two separate categories and never shall they be mixed, except in order to breed.

    If he acknowledges the existence of intersexed people at all, he probablyviews them as suffering under a curse from his nasty, sociopathic sky fairy some some imagined infraction or other.

    Afterall, as the bible and assorted fundies so often imply, ‘Ole Yahweh does so love to combine his passion for grossly unethical collective punishment with truly awful aim…

    And @ 716;

    Dalillama, you could not feel the moral authority just flowing from those words.

    Why do you think that even non catholics takes him seriously as a moral arbitrator?

    (It is a good thing that you cannot hear my suppressed laughter.)

    It is simply terrifying that anyone considers this toxic old goat to be a moral authority on any topic, still less notional ‘sexual morality’, given the history (and in particular the recent history) of the Catholic Church and his own personal role in covering up the epidemic of priestly child abuse.

  196. says

    This is another point where I should mention that I literally wouldn’t be here without you folks. You provided emotional, strategic, and financial help when it looked like my whole world was going to fall apart, and I’m always going to be grateful for that.

  197. cicely (Chock-full of Nuts!) says

    I has new boots! Yay!
    -

    I can’t recall where I’ve read this before, but every time, it’s like an epiphany.

    Huh. And here I thought I was being original. Deep, even.
    *sigh*
    Back to the shallow end of the pool I go….
    -
    Socio-gen, I approve of The Plan. It could buy you less visit-related stress in the future, too.
    -

    Today is the big day… I finally get my furniture and personal belongings out of storage! The truck should be here in the next 2-3 hours, and I have until after Xmas to unpack it all. Yay!

    Huzzah!
    -
    *waving at Ms.Daisy*
    Hihowareya!
    -

  198. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Joe: That was a real LOL :)

    cicely, aw, sorry. I’ll splash around in the shallow end with you if you like.

  199. Nick Gotts (formerly KG) says

    cicely@717,

    Nick Lane, one of the authors of the paper, is an excellent popularizer, and at least some of the ideas on the origin of life the paper apparently contains are explored in his Life Ascending. To me, it looks like the best idea yet for how abiogenesis occurred – not that I know squit about the biochemistry, but it embodies the general idea that life’s emergence depended on the prior existence of multi-scale complex structures and energy flows – in marked contrast to the “primeval soup” notion.

  200. Gregory Greenwood says

    Janine: Hallucinating Liar @ 701;

    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

    I fucking hate my species.

    When I heard about that NRA nitwit making this spectcaularly stupid claim earlier today, I sat there feeling depressed, wishing that such callous idiocy still actually surprised me.

    His whining about the supposed ‘demonisation’ of gun owners became even more ironic given the fact that he went on to attempt to put the blame for the massacre on the media and gun control lobby being complicit in such gun massacres by preventing the imagined ‘good guy with a gun’ from going all Die Hard and supposedly saving the day, and on the violent character of certain forms of popular culture and videogames*.

    He tried to brush the fact that guns were used in this massacre under the carpet while handwaving about elements of culture that have no clear connection to this tragedy. Even if violent media did somehow contribute to this event, if guns were not so readily available then the massacre would not have transpired or would have been far less severe. One man with a knife is much easier to handle than that same man with a gun.

    But the most bonkers bit had to be when he advocated for the posting armed police or security guards at every school. Leaving aside how armed guards patrolling the halls would affect the children who study there, and the possibility that one of those guards could accidentally discharge their weapon/mistake a toy firearm for the real thing/go on their own shooting spree, it is staggering to me that these NRA arseholes are so wedded to their damnable guns that their solution to rampage shootings is not to put rational gun control laws in place, but is rather to try to turn schools into armed camps.

    It is horrifying that they put so much more value on their guns than they do on the lives of their fellow citizens.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    * Though, needless to say, no actual evidence was forthcoming that actually demonstrated a significant causal link between the existence of violent media and rampage shootings, and it is interesting that countries like the UK that have decent gun control laws have the self same violent media with far less in the way of gun violence, but I don’t imagine the NRA will let a little thing like reality get in the way of their rhetoric…

  201. says

    Hi Daisy! Nice to see you again.
    Improbable Joe, L does photography (ask Tony about it), and Roommate is going to be offering watersolor prints soon on the same site. Link in my ‘nym. More later, work calls.

  202. Richard Austin says

    Improbable Joe:

    I don’t know that it’s “art”, but if you want posters of crap, I’m trying a couple of places to see how they work out.

    I’m also more than willing to send you (or other Hordies) a high-rez image for your own purposes if you want to print them out on your own printer (most are up on my flickr account anyway) or do something else with them.

    (Preview’s wonky – that should be “trying a couple of places”, not sure if it’ll show correctly.)

  203. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    That sounds worryingly close to an outright declaration of an eliminationist position – if one reduces harmful ‘manipulation of nature’ with regard to the environment by reducing or removing pollution caused by irresponsible industry, then how should one tackle the supposedly harmful ‘manipulation of nature’* with regard to gender and gender identity caused by this notional denial of ‘ordained’ gender identity handed down by the sky fairy, if the analogy is to hold?

    You can take the Pope out of the Hitler Youth, but you can’t take the Hitler Youth out of the Pope.