Fox News carried out a phone survey to find out what people thought of god and science. Here are the results:
Which do you think is more likely to actually be the explanation for the origin of human life on Earth:
The theory of evolution as outlined by Darwin and other scientists 21% The Biblical account of creation as told in the Bible, 45% or Are both true? 27% (Don’t know) 7%
It’s nothing at all surprising; a little less than half the American population typically answers these sorts of questions with dumb piety. The fact that a quarter are trying to claim compatibility is a little weird, but otherwise, whoop-de-do.
Ken Ham has commented on the results.
I’m sure many of you saw this poll. If it accurately represents the population in the USA, then why is evolution taught as fact in schools? Why do secularists have so much control over what is taught? I think there are a number of reasons and will comment later–but thought you would be interested to read this.
Somebody is unclear on the concept. Science is not determined by public opinion, and you don’t settle it by running a poll. Shall we vote on math, chemistry, physics, psychology, history, literature, and Spanish, too?
(Also on Sb)
I bet Ken Ham didn’t really say that at all and PZ just screwed up a quote tag.
You tell ’em Hamster.
Facts can always determined by polls.
Oh, so now you fixed it so I look like the dummy.
Oh. I spent the last 5 minutes picking up the pieces of my irony meter, and then it was just a false reading? FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU!!!1111111
@Blondin
Yes, I was thinking, too, that PZ blockquoteth too much!
Can we have a poll on whether Ken Ham is a piglet rapist?
Seriously though, it’s hard to believe there are actually people who would think that something must be true just because a majority of people believe it. How could he not understand the concept of a popular misconception? How could he possibly not understand that the majority could be wrong?
Let’s try another poll:
– God is an old man.
– God is a rabbit.
– Justin Bieber is God.
It’ll be a tight match between 1) and 3), and then the christians will have to discuss about changing certain details in the bible…
Sorry I forgot to ask first, are we allowed to mention Justin Bieber on this blog?
This seems to be a media moment on a platter for Kenny Boy, but he will “respond later.” Whatta maroon!
@Blondin,
Go and read the facebook page. It’s not just Hammy-boy, he has *friends* that think that way too!
Actually, reading those comments was just plain depressing, so maybe you should just skip clicking on the link…
If only I’d seen this sooner.
I could have been the first to point out the blockquote fail.
I vote that 2 + 2 = 6. Oh and water is really gold. Man that’s gonna make me a lot of money.
Ken Ham might notice that the combined “evolution is true” and “both are true” answers are greater than the “evolution is not true” answer. So maybe that’s why?
I vote yes.
Ken Ham rapes pigs,
Ham rapes pink pigs,
Ham rapes big pigs.
I took a poll, I wrote a paper:
Ken Ham is a pink pig, big pig raper.
Ken Ham rapes his big pink pigs all day.
(Don’t ask me why. I cannot say.)
Ken rapes pigs where you can’t see ’em
In his Ken Hams’ Pink Pigs Big Pigs Museum.
Apologies to Dr Suess
Ummmm… evolution is taught in public schools because there is such an obvious and desperate need for adequate public education? Just sayin’
I clicked the provided link which took me to Ken Hams facebook page and read his sheeples comments. Very very sad.
Ooh, if we get to vote on Spanish, can we get rid of grammatical gender? (I know it’s not as difficult as in French or German or Ngan’gityemerri, but I don’t speak those languages regularly).
Also, the le/la/lo distinction can go.
But we’ll keep ser/estar and the subjunctive, ‘k?
I noticed some brave soul named Keith must have ‘friended’ Ham in order to insert some reality-based rebuttal. Go Keith!
Ah yes, the ever popular argumentum ad populum. So many use it that it must be a legitimate way to discover the truth.
This just in, Ken – reality is not American Idol. Facts are not determined by popular vote.
Also, Christians represent less than 50% of the world’s population. How come you preach that Christianity is true? The people have spoken, Ken!
Hammites really believe that belief determines reality? No wonder he and his elk were such huge supporters of the Bush misadministration.
If we are doing a poll, how about…
Did Noah have two, and only two, of every animal on ark? 1) Yes 2) No
Was man created before animals, or after?
Questions like that. Then we can start asking why the Bible is being taught as inerrant truth.
er, all hail Tpyos? ‘Elk’ should be ‘ilk’. I did not mean to include those large, majestic (though weird sounding) ruminants in the same clade as Ham’s hamsters. Sorry to all elk who may be reading this.
@20 I see what you did there.
I here the bible says the world is flat and fixed in space. Ham disagrees I think he should get his biblical glasses checked.
I can actually feel my blood pressure climbing. I can’t take this sort of stupidity with any kind of equanimity. Its like reading the comments on CNN. Ever try it? Pure intellectual torture porn. Someone please help me.
Someone is unclear on what a rigorous and valid survey looks like. At least if you want true public thought and not just a heard of sheep.
Ken Ham:
Because, Ken…
Ye-es, that makes sense.
And the fact that probably most people would vote “3” on the question “what’s the sum of ankles in a triangle?” should make us change that answer in maths test.
Actually, if that poll shows anything it is that more evolution should be taught and that the government should make sure that all children get the chance to a propper education regardless of their parents’ superstitions.
Hammy left us a teaser to get us to come back, and read about his thoughts. as if I give a shit.
Rebecca Black thinks Justin Bieber is awesome. She said that in a video.
I know that gravity is a property of mass, I also know that scientists have yet to find a piratical to explain mass. So I make this modest proposal, we as a country come to the consensus that gravity is just theory. This will allow us to improve our economy by becoming the world leader in launching satellites and people into orbit as we will no longer have to take gravity into consideration.
I say we vote on math. Give everything the value of zero and I can finally do all manner of equations. Maybe I will finally get a Doctorate!
Why don’t we extend Ken Ham’s logic further? Take a poll involving all the folks around the world about the need for Christianity. I’m sure the non-christian majority (Chinese and Indians) would vote Christianity out and at least one religion would be out of counting…
IOW, if around half of the population is too ignorant and/or biased to get basic science right, by no means should they be taught basic science.
Yes, failure of scientific comprehension by the student compels us not to teach good science.
Glen Davidson
From that poll, the mayoralty say that Evolution is fact. At least that’s what I can tell from the contradicting 3rd option that has 27%.
Because, unfortunately, it accurately represents the population in the USA.
It really upsets me when things like this give the rest of the world such a valid reason to laugh at us. I mean, seriously? It amazes me that evolution is even still debatable at all. And with extreme Christians building creation museums to explain dinosaurs or claiming Satan planted all the bones as a freaking test of the faithful, it gets more and more depressing all the time. How, in such a fast-paced, modern world, are so many people more delusional and misguided than ancient Greeks and Romans were? We have insanely advanced technology compared to them, and yet they understood that their gods were ideas, lessons, examples of moral integrity and deficiency. The only people who really believed would have been uneducated, backwoods farmers and peasants who…OH. OH, I SEE. It’s suddenly all so clear.
strictly speaking, if you decided what was spanish by giving spanish people a vote on it then it would be valid.
pz shouldn’t be such as appeaser by giving implying the same level of truth-value in other faculties such as the arts and languages. if the main focus of study is knowledge and truth then it is called science.
A Fox News poll? I’m surprised the percentages add up to 100.
There appears to be a battle brewing on Ken Hams facebook page. Those making a sound argument and those responding with lalalalala I can’t hear you.
Johan Fruh @ # 9: … are we allowed to mention Justin Bieber on this blog?
It depends. Is he a l*b*rt*r**n?
I post about the Science & Engineering Indicators every time the NSF puts them out. Here’s another interesting ‘fact’ we’d be teaching if we based science education on popular opinion :
-Lasers work by focusing sound waves.
If public opinion shifts just a bit, we might also be teaching:
-Electrons are larger than atoms.
-Antibiotics kill viruses as well as bacteria.
-The Sun goes around the Earth.
Just for comparison, Europeans do worse on average compared to Americans on these questions, so Europe would be teaching all of the above as fact except for the Sun going around the Earth.
How, in such a fast-paced, modern world, are so many people more delusional and misguided than ancient Greeks and Romans were?
They’re misguided because it is a fast-paced, modern world, and they can’t keep up. For some, it’s because they’re so poorly educated that they can’t. But most of them are just too fucking stupid to get it.
Remember, 100 is the average IQ. Half the population is below that. And I’d wager that christards make up more than their share of the sub-100 crowd.
Also, the christards fear/resent change.
Being fearful or resistant to change is a feature, not a bug, with religion.
But we’ll keep ser/estar and the subjunctive, ‘k?
Only if we can add it to English. I think estar would be a fine addition to the English language. Along with se me (te) olvido. (Literally, “It was forgotten by me (you).” The English construction is too blaming.
Why only the Spanish people? Shouldn’t Mexicans, Argentinians, etc., have a say?
And if the majority of speakers says that, say, vos is not Spanish, does that make it so?
There is a science of language, and what it says about language and languages doesn’t necessarily reflect popular opinion (and I will grant you that linguists are not nearly as united about theory as, e.g., biologists).
I believe that Hydrogen has two electrons. If I can get a bunch of people to agree, then I win! Right?
I stand in agreement with you.
What’s up with the “both are true” option? Why would they include this? Just to make it more confusing for people?
2 + 2 = ?
A. 4
B. 5
C. Both 4 and 5
And only 21% got it right. There’s the answer to your question, Hambone.
Try this Poll in the US:
1. Do you believe that the Hindu creation mythology should be taught in public schools as the true story of creation?
[estimated results 94% will say NO]
2. Do you believe that the scientific theories taught in public school science classes should be the those theories most accepted by the experts in each field?
[estimated results 94% will say YES]
3. Is the modern biological theory of evolutionary the most widely accepted scientific theory among Biologists?
[estimated results 80% will say YES]
Assuming these results, we could conclude that the vast majority of Americans are against teaching false creation myths in school and are overwhelming behind teaching the scientific theory of evolution.
Or you could note that poll results are often prejudicial, manipulated by wording, question order, biases in polling methodology [can you say pharyngulated? I knew you could], etc.
We don’t need a popular vote on these things when the bible is right there to guide us in things mathematical. Now let’s all turn to 2nd Chronicles 4:2 where we read, King Solomon…made a tub of cast bronze, 10 cubits from one brim to the other; it was completely round…and a line of 30 cubits measured its circumference.
Therefore Pi = 3.
All together now (singing), How do I know, the bible tells me so.
I finally figured out why right-wing Christians do not want ‘Evolution’ taught in public schools. Students would have to learn bad words such as HOMO SAPIENS, HOMO HABILIS and God forbid HOMO ERECTUS. As we all know, even thinking about those words will eventually turn every student into at least one of the above.
@31
That’s actually a tricky question. Most people would reply “six”, but amputations and malformations result in some triangles having less (or, in really wierd cases, more) than six ankles.
Possibly the most amusing thing about this is that when you mention the scientific consensus on evolution to a creationist, they’ll most likely say that truth isn’t decided by popular opinion. Perhaps truth is only decided by popular opinion when its also their opinion?
Another suggestion for additions to English:
Indonesian has two words for “we”. One includes the person you are speaking to, while the other makes it clear you are referring to people not including the person to whom you are speaking.
I’ll wager if you asked a random sampling of Americans “what is 7 times 8?” there would be enough variation in the answers to support “Teaching the Controversy” in math class.
And now, let’s take a minute to explain the rules to “Common Knowledge”. Questions for our show are show are selected by educators from Princeton University to express a broad range of common knowledge that every American should possess. Answers for “Common Knowledge” are determined by a nationwide survey of 17-year-old high school seniors.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/common-knowledge/2879/
That’s “Common Knowledge”. And remember: It’s not what you know, but what you think you know! Good night, everyone!
They vote on these things in Texas. Just think how much history, math, chemistry, and physics could be simplified. Of course we already know that biology benefits by letting the general population decide what will be taught. Perhaps the field of medicine could stand to gain substantially through this process.
Literature poll!
Which do you think is a more likely accurate account of reality:
-The Bible
-The Harry Potter books
-The nutritional information on the back of a jar of peanut butter
Come on, people! It’s “se me olvidó”! You need the accent mark! Or shall we vote on eliminating diacritical marks in foreign languages too?
What’s that, ye scurvy dog? D’ye not know Newtons equation?
F = G.m1.m2 over Aaaarrr! squared.
Sounds pretty piratical to me, matey.
Okay, okay, we’re a little early for speak like a pirate day but when is it ever not a good idea anyway? At least pirates don’t rape piglets.
I’ve just read through a few of the comment threads on the linked page.
The wilful ignorance of most of the posters is… awesome. Utterly mindblowing. I’d just watched that “climbing tower” video posted by PZ above, and then read the above-linked comments, and I honestly got sweatier palms reading the comments.
Heh. On the Fox News page, the survey document is displayed with Crocodoc.
“…Students would have to learn bad words such as HOMO SAPIENS, HOMO HABILIS and God forbid HOMO ERECTUS. As we all know, even thinking about those words will eventually turn every student into at least one of the above.”
Um . . . they already ARE at least one of the above. Or most of them, anyway.
Fuckin’ moron!
To think that that 47% votes for the person who has his/her finger on the nuclear button, truly makes my blood run cold.
Pharyngula, and all of the comments are great fun to read while rolling on the floor in laughter.
But it is really serious shit going on, and is why science education and calling idiots idiots is so important. We must never forget that.
Thanks, PZ.
You see, that is why Democracy can utterly fail. The majority can easily be just stupidly wrong.
But but but, Galileo!
@15. Blondin : 8 September 2011 at 8:35 am
I do not like pigs and Ken Ham
I do not like the Creation scam
I do not like it in my school
I do not like to see him drool
I do not want the piglets raped
Or evolution denied – like Perry taped
I do not want Ken Ham’s theme park
I don’t believe in silly arks!
I do not want Ken Ham to lie
Evlutions truth he can’t deny
I do not want him in my books
We do not need creationist crooks!
I do not want Ken Ham that guy,
Oh, not the one who makes the Shuttle fly
I do not want him on the net
Six thousand years is not the bet!
I do not want Ken Ham at all
I do want to see Creationism mauled! ;-)
Hmm .. apologies to Dr Suess also. Y’all feel free to forward on and quote elsewhere if y’think it helps at all preferably properly attributed.
Is there a best anti-creationist parody prize of some sort here? :-)
@69. Therrin :
Er ..what about the NASA-JPL spaceprobe?
It did make some interesting discoveries around Jupiter during its operational life but how’s that relevant? ;-)
Couple of corrections for draft II of that :
Make the first verse / couplet :
& the last one :
I reckon that makes it work better, yes?
May I suggest (or hope, anyway) that perhaps, this being Faux News, there might be a bit of a selection bias?
Wasn’t there a recent poll that suggested that fundies were the most hated minority in America? In that case, why are they allowed to remain?
I’d disagree with the It’s nothing at all surprising; for a “theory of evolution as outlined by Darwin and other scientists” (and God need not apply) type response, 21% is a suprisingly high number; compare typical Gallup results.
Of course, there’s some variance due to phrasing; the Fox-1999 poll was also about five percentage points higher than the Gallup-1999 numbers. Still, while the glass may be mostly empty, at least the trend is in a helpful direction.
A Pigfucker sez:
shorter Hammster:
If people are ignorant, why should we teach them?
*headdesk*
Was is it your intention to make it a tough choice?
where’s the “none of the above” option?
The majority can easily be just stupidly wrong.
Have you ever read John Stuart Mill?
If not, I would highly recommend his essay, “On Liberty”
http://www.constitution.org/jsm/liberty.txt
this is where the phrase “Tyranny of the Majority” came from.
-JSM
and something added by Noam Chomsky…
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