And this is part of the unsavory mix:
Emery Emery @emeryemeryii May 20
Excited that @michaelshermer has been added to the #TAM2015 lineup. Never give in to unsubstantiated slander.
“Never give in to unsubstantiated slander” here must mean ignore multiple accounts by women of various forms of skeevy behavior, including non-consensual sex. It must mean ignore corroboration by witnesses. It must mean ignore what James Randi said himself. It must mean ignore all of that as “unsubstantiated,” in order to include the subject of all those accounts. Ignore what all those women say, because they don’t count; only the Important Thought-Leader Men count.
I’ve never heard of this Emory Emory person. Is he a Muslim, by any chance? Because they’re the ones who need four male witnesses before any rape can be said to happen. Or maybe he’s just advocating that atheism should adapt these Great Truths from the other religions — after all, we all know those wimminfolk just can’t be trusted, amiright?
That’ll be the red mist I’m seeing, then.
There is NO WAY that at least some of the speakers at TAM aren’t aware of Shermer’s reputation and the JREF’s indifference – at best – to it. There is NO WAY people like Simon Singh, Zach Weinersmith and George Hrab are unaware. They are vastly intelligent, sensitive, aware people and yet….
What the actual fuck?
Oh yes, they know. On the other hand most of them probably didn’t know Shermer would be on the bill.
Hero worship. Like “James Randi is so important to my skepticism, he clearly MUST not REALLY know about Shermer, so I’ll go to support him.” Randi knows. Randi doesn’t care.
@ brucegee1962
I first heard of him a few years ago when I was searching out atheist podcasts (his is Ardent Atheist). There was some good stuff in it but there were enough “what an asshole” moments that I eventually unsubscribed. There are a number of podcasts that I don’t listen to anymore but I think his is the only one I’ve ever actually unsubscribed from so I wouldn’t be contributing to his numbers.
Whether or not Shermer’s actions can be considered rape (I say yes), he has absolutely been a sleaze and sexual predator*. Anyone who has sex with someone after acting to increase that person’s alcohol consumption (especially while not drinking themselves) is a creep. And he admits to doing this.
I think the “unsubstantiated slander” has had the exact effect it was intended to have. Shermer will now have a really hard time getting unsuspecting women drunk so he can have sex with them. This intent was explicitly stated as the purpose of the “grenade” post. Any women who still want to hook up with him (*shudder*) will do it because they decided to when they were sober.
*Note: I suspect that there are many men who would be delighted to have the label “sexual predator” applied to them. That’s the core of the PUA mentality.
Emery Emery has been thought led.
I just know Emery from a video conference a few years ago about sexual harassment policies. He was the one screaming “she can suck my cock” when told that Steph Zvan had dared ask to see the policy for that year’s TAM.
Not a good first impression…
Yes, that’s how I first knew of him too.
Correction to my #5, for the sake of accuracy.
I don’t know that Shermer has ever admitted to “acting to increase [someone’s] alcohol consumption.” He did, however, admit to pretending to be drinking a lot with someone but covertly hiding his drinks instead of drinking them (after witnesses called him on it).
Sneaky.
I wondered why Shermer wasn’t on originally, since there has been no other sign that TAM leadership has improved. Apparently it was in order to get decent people to attend.
Or rather, just enough people to fill the roster.
Golgafrinchan, didn’t that “hiding his drink” also coincide with him topping off the other person’s?
In January, Randi wrote in his retirement statement: “During my tenure with the JREF, I’ve had the great satisfaction of observing a decided increase in the percentage of both younger folks and women who have joined our ranks. ”
Michael Shermer was 55-years-old when he raped 20-year-old Alison Smith at TAM 2008.
Was Randi perhaps speaking of his satisfaction in helping to procure more prey for Shermer and other predators? I have nothing left but unadulterated contempt for James Randi.
Referencing Golgafrinchan Captain’s points, why must “proven rapist” be the barrier to invitations? Shouldn’t “self-admitted sleazeball” be enough?
Isn’t Emery Emery the guy who started the “Michael Shermer Defense Fund” that managed to rack up a few thousand dollars but apparently went nowhere due to there not being, you know, any kind of Shermer defense?
I was just thinking that a petition might be in order. As a skeptic, I believe that pressure should be put on JREF to be more responsive to the safety needs of women at conferences. Such a petition might get a lot of signatures.
MrFancyPants @ 15 – Yes, I believe he is the one that did that.
I started listening to Ardent Atheist when it started. Thought it was nifty, comedians and all. Though I did wince some at the use of slurs (standard comedian reasons). But then there was a blowup about Stephanie Zvan, ranting and blatantly misrepresenting her. And I dropped it then. That’s been quite a while. I think the Shermer defense fund is about the only thing I’ve heard about him since.
@ Jafafa Hots #12
That’s my assumption but I don’t actually “know” it. If I don’t want to get drunk, I don’t repeatedly hide drinks. I just take my time drinking them. The only reason I can see to keep getting new drinks (even if he was only getting one for himself, which I doubt) is to try to set a pace for the other person.
I do remember something about him keeping someone’s wine glass full but I think that was a different incident than the night with Allison Smith, when he was caught hiding his drinks. … Researching … Yeah, that story was added to the bottom of the grenade post, submitted to PZ by a different person. It’s pretty clear that trying to get women drunk is his M.O.
@ anthrosciguy #14
Exactly. I think TAM/JREF have shown their ethics and priorities. They will not get a cent of my money until this changes. I realize they’re probably fine with this, since there seems to be no shortage of callously indifferent people and actively hostile people who still support them.
@ MrFancyPants #15
Yep, it’s the same person.
An acquaintance of mine is on the JREF board of directors. I emailed him when the whole Michael Shermer thing first blew up and his reply to me was that the whole thing was hearsay and there was no evidence, etc, etc. It’s a boys’ club all the way to the top, nobody has any reason to expect any change at all.
@ 19 Marcus Ranum
Boys’ club? What are talking about? Harriet Hall and Edwina Rogers are on the bill! Not to mention Dawkins’… um… friend, Liz Cornwell.
(/sarcasm)
Anyway, I expect Dr Shermer’s talk will be promoting his latest book: The Moral Arc — How Science and Reason Lead Humanity Toward Truth, Justice, and Freedom.
:-/
It also means ignoring the fact that Michael Shermer has told at least two, and likely three, mutually incompatible versions of what happened with Alison Smith that night.
Much skeptic.
Yup. And he told Mark Oppenheimer that he had given that money to Shermer’s lawyers–despite the fact that Shermer never did follow through on his threat to sue.
Sure would be nice to see some documentation showing where that money went. Silly as they were to believe for a moment that Shermer really was serious about suing PZ, the skeptics who donated do deserve an accounting. But I don’t suppose they care.
Emery Emery is a guy who has ranted and howled and raved against me before, yet when I was in LA he literally begged me to give him an interview for a documentary earlier this year. I actually stood up Lady Mondegreen for a while to give him his interview (sorry!), because he sounded so desperate.
What a mistake.
I expect he’ll butcher and twist the interview now, but I’ll just say that he has used up any tolerance I might have for him, and if he has any future requests for me, there’s no amount of ass-kissing that will get him any attention from me, so he can just fuck off.
He sounds nice.