1. moelarryandjesus says

    Did I miss the post where PZ cuts Sally Quinn’s head off and leaves it on a stake as a warning to other idiotic bigots?

  2. says

    Today I realized I needed a book for some research I’m doing, so I looked it up in our university’s library catalog. We have the book, but it’s checked out until August 30, 2013. So, who do I have to kill to get that kind of check-out time? Seriously, I want to be a university professor if only for the library privileges. In related news, today was the first time I’ve ever had to request an inter-library loan.

  3. says

    Old Lounge:
    @76 Alethea
    I had something similar to what you described with alcohol. I was on an anti-depressant and had insomnia pretty often, so the psychiatrist prescribed me Ambien. Everything was fine, I had no trouble with being groggy or sleepwalking or anything on the Ambien, and then I was prescribed a migraine preventative, and the next time I took Ambien I slept for more than 2 days. I tried to drive somewhere on the 3rd day and ran a red light because I couldn’t figure out what I was supposed to do in time to stop (I immediately went home, rather than continue driving). Turns out that migraine preventative interacts with the anti-depressant I was on to suppress the central nervous system and any sleep aid stronger than Benadryl put me out for days. Fortunately, the insomnia got better with my depression lifting and the migraines getting better, and eventually I was able to get off the anti-depressant. I just always think about how strange it was that something I was already taking suddenly worked much differently.

    @83 FossilFishy
    I did one of those FB games that tells you you are something random after asking you weird questions. This one was what percent angel or devil you are that day, and it posted to my wall. A while later I noticed I had a message from an older person who was one of my FB friends, telling me she couldn’t delete her status about being a devil and not to post about her being a devil to her status again (she didn’t know what it was and obviously didn’t understand quite how FB works). After that I went through and deleted all the old church people that were in my friends list that I haven’t actually ever talked to since I started using FB and didn’t think I ever needed to talk to, hopefully giving me more freedom to say whatever the hell I want on my page. Good luck with your brother.

    @87 Portia
    I’m not planning on having children, but if I ever did, I would want to do a baby shower like that. It was actually fun, for pretty much everyone.

    @116 thunk, Blob Alert
    My state is thought to be completely red safe, so I’m thinking about voting for the Green Party candidate.

    @164 Portia
    I don’t even understand how you could imagine that any medication (homeopathic or real) could “treat” bedwetting. I mean, if it’s not a medical condition, how can you treat it medically? It might be different if it was a medical condition, but most children it’s really not, right?

    Re: sisters My sister is 7 years younger, and we did conflict. Time with my stepfather (her father) was in short supply and high demand, and he would usually take us separately to do things. And she wanted to do everything I was doing, but wasn’t able to, and wanted me to do what she was doing even though it was boring for me. And then I was regularly put in charge of making sure she behaved, when our parents disappeared for hours at a time (I later learned that was for opportunity for my stepfather to harangue my mother about how awful a person she was and often threaten to kill her and us and himself) – and I had no way to make her behave, and would regularly get kicked and hit and bitten by her when I tried to stop her from doing something we both knew she wasn’t supposed to do. We get along today, but aren’t really close; she’s become the good one by becoming really religious and serious and hiding it from the parents when she dates or drinks.

    @229 Audley
    That’s awesome!!

    @245 Audley
    I just checked our mail because my first paycheck from new job is due today by mail, and found 7 books in separate packages and a bunch of mail. Roommate usually check mail, but I guess he skipped for a few days and the mailbox was completely stuffed full.

    @335 Beatrice
    I’m not avoiding carbs, but I read the South Beach Diet book when it was recommended by my migraine doctor. I’m not sure what that had to do with anything; he seemed to think eating that diet would help with headaches, it didn’t, but meds did. In any case, the breakfast I liked from it was little egg quiches – basically egg and vegetables cooked in muffin tins, without the paper cups, just grease the tins. They are good fresh, kind odd leftover, which the book suggested. You can probably do any breakfast type protein and just leave out the toast/muffin/waffles etc.

    @339 Joe
    Gratz on job for your wife! And I hope the negotiation turns out well for you guys!

    New Thread:
    @3 blogofmyself
    I used to see year long checkouts occasionally at my public library, for books that were missing and they were looking for them. I suppose that’s not the case for your book. I did my first interlibrary loans in the 90s when I was working at a library in my teens and I was using the huge Books in Print books (no internet at libraries then) to look up the works of Isaac Asimov and request them on little paper forms via interlibrary loan. :)

  4. says

    I think I’ve said my new job is repairing laptops. I got one yesterday where the problem description was:

    blockquoteLaptop won’t always boot, when it does it has multiple problems such as a bad keyboard. Please fix!blockquote</b

    I kept shaking my head over that all day; "multiple problems such as" doesn't work. You have to tell me exactly what's wrong with it for me to test, duplicate, and fix the "multiple issues". And seriously? I need your hard drive to boot from to duplicate your issue. (He's getting that one back unrepaired, because we couldn't find anything wrong with the computer.)

  5. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    (He’s getting that one back unrepaired, because we couldn’t find anything wrong with the computer.)

    When I worked in the Sears small engine repair shop forty plus years ago, we had a saying “customer must be smarter than machine to operate”. Sounds like the case here…

  6. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    blogofmyself, when I was in college I got into the honors department, then was a graduate student. I had four-months checkouts for one of them. I’d get my textbooks list, bustle over to the library and see if any were available—if so, I was set for the semester and saving a bundle.

    But a year checkout? Oy.

    Dang, it is cold here. I’ve been wearing shorts and Hawaiian shirts since Spring, but today I put on long pants. It took me forever to find something to hold the pants up, too. I put on a very heavy sweater and was fine in the house, then I had to go out and jimmy open a car door in the wind and a light rain—I hate cold rain. In all the confusion, I missed out on breakfast and lunch, so I was really feeling the cold. I am dry now, but still feeling hungry and cold.

    Oh, well, I got to be helpful in getting the car door open.

    And clever, too. I pried the door out at the top, and had a straightened wire coat hanger that I could bend to touch the unlock button, but it was too flexy to push it. I also had a carbon-fiber rod that was stiff, but wouldn’t hold a bend to reach the button. So, I wrapped the wire around the rod, bent the wire to keep the rod flexed, and Bob was my uncle.

  7. jonbonjovi says

    ‘v fllwd th FrThghtBlgs (whch s rnclly hvn fr ntllctl cwrds wh mst cnsr th mr sggstn tht thr vws rqr dpr nlyss) nd Th “thsm Pls” mvmnt frm th bgnnng. PZ, Grt, phl nd s frth r sm f th mst dsgstng hmn bngs hv vr hd th msfrtn f lrnng bt. Btwn yr cnstnt vctmhd mntlty, cmplt ntlrnc fr pn dscssn nd vtrlc cmpgns t hrss ths wh dr crtcz y, y r msrbl xcss fr hmn bngs nd dsrv nthng lss thn t b cstgtd t th rfs bns f th skptcl cmmnty. Y -rlgs dgmtsts r, n my ys, vn wrs thn th rlgs dgmtsts s y nsst n smrng thsts wth yr bhrrnt nd chldsh prsnl cndct. Thnks t th lt f y, ppl wh clm tht thsm s rlgn hv vsbl dgmtc cmmnty f thsts t pnt t t shw tht thsts cn b jst s rrtnl s rlgs fntcs nd sps th sm lvl f cndct. hv n dbt tht th bn hmmr s cmng t prvnt m frm pstng gn nd thr ths cmmnt wll b scrbbd r mmbrs f th +/FtB crcl jrk scts wll rl n hw t f ln ths pst ws. Bt n th sncr hps tht ths mssg ss vn n y f n prsn wh ws hvng dbts bt yr blg nd t hlps t chs thm wy frm yr prtclr brnd f ntllctl psn, cn rst ssrd tht ths lttr ws nt n vn. Th + cmmnty s shnnd by grt mny mrtrs ndvdls nd t s vry clr t s why.

    [Read the opening post, derpwad. This is the moderated open thread — of course your rant is going to get axed. You want the [Thunderdome], which is mostly unmoderated. Continue to violate the rules, and yes, you will be banned. Because you’re an idiot. –pzm]

  8. says

    I worked in a nursery — plant, not baby — in Maryland in 1986, and my boss hired this local high school kid that summer to help with the watering and mulch carrying and such. When introduced to me, he held his hand up and said “Bon Jovi, dude!”

    It took me a couple hours to figure out that he wasn’t being ironic. It was his standard greeting to everyone.

    I imagine he’s got his MBA by now.

  9. Aratina Cage says

    PZ […] and so forth are some of the most disgusting human beings I have ever had the misfortune of learning about.

    Madalyn Murray O’Hair thinks you’re full of shit. Atheists get this from spiritual leaders all the time; good of you to join them, jonbonjovi.

  10. Aratina Cage says

    I can rest assured that this letter was not in vain.

    What will really piss him off is if you disemvowel his screed. Heeheehee.

  11. says


    …thought you’d might like to know…

    Also, Horde:

    I have two local papers and four letters to send off.

    One of the letters is a general criticism of my MP for supporting Motion 312 (fetal personhood) and a note that sex education in my city is, as far as I know (and I graduated in 2009) woefully inadequate.

    One is a poem in response to this piece of dreck.

    One is a rebuttal of this pro-life bullshit.

    And the last one is a letter asking why I don’t see rainbow stickers in the front windows of stores here like I see in Vancouver to show support for the LGBT community.

    Would it be bad for me to send these all at once?

    Anyone? ><;

  12. says



    You need to do the dead faint to bring it home.

    I was trying to do something with the nym, but it all wound up kinda limp…

    Working concept when I gave it up was: “It’s nice to see that old rockers do go onto new careers, new horizons, keep challenging ’emselves, keep trying to move artistically forward, but I really don’t get Jon’s new ‘Incoherent curmudgeon/stream-o-consciousness/semiliterate beat poet’ stuff. And honestly, it almost makes me miss Slippery When Wet.”

    … so, yeah, best sometimes just to move on.

  13. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    I was so confused by “herping”. I thought of “herp a derp” or herpes.

    Praise to Google so I could find out what it meant and not look stupid.

  14. says

    @18 Setar
    Er, I have no idea. Is it more likely they will publish the letters if they only get one, or if they get more than one at once? I would probably opt to spread it out myself.

  15. says

    @ JAL

    lol! Sorry! I forgot to explain it again. I keep doing that. I forget who I’ve explained it to and who I have to explain “herping” to (hint: pretty much everyone).

    Here’s an educational moment, brought to you by StarStuff, your resident amateur herpetologist:
    Herps are reptiles and amphibians. Herpetology is the study of reptiles and amphibians. And herping is going out and finding reptiles and amphibians through a variety of means. My means tomorrow will mostly involve me being kneed deep in muddy water with a large dipnet.
    Now you know! :D

  16. Rev. BigDumbChimp says


    Shot to the heart and you’re to blame

    You give love

    A bad name

  17. mythbri says

    Trying to resist the urge to start shit on an acquaintance’s FB page. Some idiot friend of his posted an anti-Islam joke and then called MY friend a racist when she criticized him for it.

    “Islam is evil. I didn’t know you supported the right for them to beat their wives.”

    Yeah, and the Bible says that it’s cool to rape people as long as you buy them from their fathers or conquer their land.

    What’s your point?


  18. redpanda says

    A friend of mine is having a conversation with a creationist on Facebook and this just popped up:

    God will always exist in the vastness of the universe, the infiniteness of our timeline’s history, and the infinitesimal nature of quantum mechanics. By definition, quantum mechanics says we can only know a particle’s position 90% of the time, the other 10% is anyone’s guess. Quantum teleportation allows particles to exist where nature doesn’t allow them to be. What else is the definition of supernatural?

    Apparently the guy is a chemical engineer who graduated from Stanford. Where do these people come up with this stuff?

  19. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    That does sound very interesting, though hard work as well to do it all day long.

    It also threw me off since I know, like, nothing about reptiles. My immediate thought was “wouldn’t it be better for it to rain so the frogs with come out?” Then “oh duhhhh I’m stupid.” Obviously, that’s just ignorance on my part and I realize that. There’s so many different animals so I really shouldn’t be surprised they don’t all like the rain. I’m sure it just makes it harder for you.

    Thanks for the lesson! I need work on those base jump to conclusions of mine.

  20. says

    @ JAL

    Frogs fucking LOVE the rain. However, I don’t :P
    I just don’t want to spend the whole day wet.

    Went out on Wednesday with my herpetology class (same group I’m going out with tomorrow). We only stayed out for about an hour though because of the rain. I was disappointed. However, we did find quite a few frogs! And I like frogs, so that’s always nice.

  21. Nutmeg says


    My means tomorrow will mostly involve me being kneed deep in muddy water with a large dipnet.

    Jealous! I finished my fieldwork in July, and I’m starting to miss it. And it’s also getting cold and rainy and snowy here. I hope you get lots of herps tomorrow! Have fun!

  22. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I think I’m drinking vodka from Kentucky. Is that possible?

    Starch/sugar+yeast+distillation? No requirements for the starch/sugar or region. Yep, very possible.

  23. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    By definition, quantum mechanics says we can only know a particle’s position 90% of the time, the other 10% is anyone’s guess. Quantum teleportation allows particles to exist where nature doesn’t allow them to be. What else is the definition of supernatural?

    The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle says that the product of the uncertainties in a particle’s uncertainty and momentum is at minimum Planck’s constant divided by 4 Pi.

    I thought us engineers were supposed to know math.

  24. jose says

    Oh God the axe’d post. I hadn’t seen that method of dealing with trolls before. It looks effective against people who are breaking rules but not to the point of being worth banning…

    My favorite has always been the hellban though. The banned user’s activity becomes invisible for everybody else (except mods) without any notification. Trying hard to derail a thread and seeing how post after post everybody absolutely ignores you can lead to pretty funny reactions sometimes.

  25. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Thanks for that Deborah. Truth is, I don’t care if I never speak to him again. We didn’t get along as kids and now we have pretty irreconcilable differences in beliefs. I’m treading lightly because I like his kids and hope that at the bare minimum they’ll see from me that atheists are not in fact immoral monsters.

    In other news: Mrs. Fishy turns 40 today. Does anyone know a stretching and warm up routine for my liver? I suspect that it’s going to get a workout this evening. I’ve even bought a new shirt for the occasion. I know, I know, I’m a crazed spendthrift who’s in need of a televised intervention. I wanted to wear my wedding tie to the festivities and for some reason all my shirts that go with it have shrunk. Must be something in the Australian water…

  26. chigau (悲しい) says

    I’m in Vancouver for the long weekend.
    My days are full but my evenings are semi-free.
    Who’s about?
    I’m off to catch up.

  27. says

    Yes, it’s definitely something in the Australian water. I’m thinking, emm, lemmeseee, hops, yeast and malt, most likely.

    My main alcomohol recommendations for overindulgence are 1. a glass of water between each drink; 2. eat something; 3. schedule a very quiet day of rest for next day.

  28. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Caine – I don’t recognize the scent of my Halloween sleep pillow. What is it stuffed with? (I meant to ask before, but I forgot.)

  29. jefrir says


    Long checkout times are usually available to
    1. Research and academic staff
    2. (Sometimes) Library staff – possibly because they know we’d just go in and change it if they didn’t.

    In the library I work at, we get 6ish month loans (through to January or June), 40 books maximum, and no fines – it is heavenly. Some people do take the piss, though – I’ve come across professors who’ve had the same book out for 20 years.

    There is probably a way to recall books if you need them urgently – speak to your library staff.

  30. Tigger_the_Wing says

    Hi people! Sorry for the scare Josh, my honorary grandson! Great big granny hugs to all who want/need them.

    Thanks all for the crossed tentacles! The ongoing pain, it turns out, was because the hospital had under-medicated me. A quick dose of fast-acting stuff plus a prescription for double-sized capsules and I’m feeling much, much better. I spent part of the lovely warm sunny day yesterday pulling weeds, while sitting down and chatting with the neighbours and their lovely kids. I’ve finished the baby Converse booties, plus I’ve nearly finished the fuzzy blanket (both for impending Number 5 Grandchild), just have a few ends to sew in.

    Today is wet and gloomy, and I keep falling asleep trying to catch up.

    Yay for new job for BossNurse! Yay for not being evicted!

    Boo for homeopathetic SCAMs and arseholish friends and family members.

    Yay/boo for people who have only the vaguest understanding of science and use the terms to support their beliefs anyway – yay because I love to mess with them (I had fun telling Number 4 Son’s fundie youth group leader that Dark Matter must be the souls of departed people and Dark Energy must be Angels) and boo because they prey on undereducated people.


    Oh yes, that reminds me – every so often, the fundie youth group leader used to drop some leaflets or comment about YECism or similar even though, every time he did it, the group would laugh at the nonsense and shout him down. Number 4 Son would occasionally bring them home so we could take them to the local atheist meet-up for a laugh. I recently heard from a friend, whose youngest is still a member, that he has promised to cease and desist after a parent complained. Why is this particularly wonderful? Because the group is actually run by the fundie church in question. Yep, the parents of teenagers attending a youth group run by and in a fundie church have managed to ban the leaders from proselytising to the kids.

  31. Tigger_the_Wing says

    What do you mean, Ing? I haven’t looked at the forums for a few days as I’ve been somewhat preoccupied elsewhere.

  32. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Tigger, I’m so glad to hear you’re feeling better. But at the risk of prying (angina makes me nervous for you, as you might imagine) just what was wrong, and is the medicine you’re now taking sufficient to put an end to the problem?

  33. Tigger_the_Wing says

    Josh, it seems that the arsehole of a cardiologist I had in Adelaide (funny, I’ve met a nurse and a GP here in Canberra who immediately swore when I told them who he was) lied to me about my coronay arteries being completely clear and the spasms being of no consequence. The cardiologist who saw me at the hospital on Saturday said that five years ago, when I had the first angiogram (fortunately arsehole was on holiday so his colleague ordered the test and got me a diagnosis) it showed a 20% narrowing, increasing to 80% during a spasm. He’s concerned that five more years of high cholesterol might have increased the narrowing; he’s ordered another angiogram for Friday 12th October to find out how bad it is.

  34. Tigger_the_Wing says

    Gack, speeloing! That coronay = coronary, of course.

    For several years now, I’ve been taking 120mg isosorbide mononitrate slow release every evening and GTN spray for breakthrough angina. I’ve also been taking 240mg verapamil hydrochloride every morning to prevent the AF because I was originally on diltiazem hydrochloride and it had no effect on the arrhythmia. The hospital doctor switched me back to diltiazem because I have had no AF since the cardiac ablation and diltiazem is better than verapamil for angina. The problem was that he prescribed 160mg daily; the GP changed it to 240mg and has also given me a bottle of fast-acting 60mg tablets to take for breakthrough pain.

  35. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Tigger, Gran-

    Christing fuck. How do hearts (not) work? I’m so sorry. Tell those bastards to get in there and clean your arteries out if possible. Meds to stanch “break-through angina” are so, so not acceptable in the long-term.


  36. Pteryxx says

    oy Tigger. *offers anklehugs*

    Ing: Dillahunty used a sockpuppet to make a point and the mods came down on it. Jason Thibeault just covered it with extensive linking:

    The resolution thread is here:

    and if you want to see the actual sockpuppeting incident from the beginning, it’s this thread here:

  37. says

    Good morning
    Why is there never wind on a Saturday (unnless it comes with heavy rain?) I’ve been trying to go kite-flying with the kids ever since #1 was 2 years old and so far we haven’t managed…

    Also, Mr. asked where I had bought the hobby-horse head. I’m not sure whether I should be please that something I made from scratch looks like professionally made or to sulk because he thought I had to buy something like that…

    Oh dear, the damnation of carbohydrates. People avoid them and then think it’s the carbohydrytes per se that made them gain weight without realizing that they’re no longer having pizza, mac and cheese, fries, donuts, chocolate…
    It’s like people going for all things fructose because fructose is made from fruit (I’m wondering what ordinary table-sugar is made from. Raw oil?) when there’s actually evidence that fructose is worse for you than succrose.

    Big fat YAY!
    But WTF rents. Although I’m spoiled by living in a low-rent area…

    opposable thumbs
    Thank you

    There’s still enough left, I’m sending it directly.

    Here’s the recipe:
    For 4-5 hungry people
    1 Hokaido pumkin
    1 kg (about two lbs) of potatoes
    2 onions
    1 lb mushrooms
    8 eggs
    1/2 pint of milk, more or less
    Salt, herbs, pepper, whatever floats your boat

    -put non-stick paper onto a deep baking tray/cookie sheet
    -grate potatoes, pumkin, onions
    -clean and slice mushroom
    -preheat oven (180-200°C)
    -This is a lot of stuff. Fry in several portions just por a bit of tast in a pan, pour every portion on the tray in the oven. Best start with the potatoes since they take the longest, fray mushrooms seperately.
    -Whisk eggs with milk and season
    -When everything is fried, pour eggs over it and bake for 20-30 minutes. You could top it with some cheese, I served it with lots of sour cream.


    So, who do I have to kill to get that kind of check-out time?

    I guess that a prof needs it for a class. Around here they would often end up in the “Handapparat”, a place in the faculty library where the prof puts stuff so students can make copies.

    deborahbell & Alethea
    I have a similar reaction to simple Ibuprofen. I felt like I was hovering 20 cm above ground while I walked into things, walls and stuff.


    I wonder who’s hair Orange baby monkey is grabbing on to?

    Probably a relative’s. Those monkeys come is orange and dark brown variety (if it’s the one I think it is). Took this picture last summer. You can see the dark one in the back.

    Happy Birthday Ms. Fossil Fishy

    Yay for modern medicine!

  38. Tigger_the_Wing says

    Giliell, yay indeed! Without modern medicine, I would be long gone. And thank you for that yummy recipe! I’ll have to omit the mushrooms from (and probably add a generous amount of freshly grated parmesan to) mine.

  39. Pteryxx says

    random neat stuff – a new poster on A+ turned out to be Mike Samsa, “The Last Behaviorist”.

    I’m an aspiring behavioral scientist interested in a range of topics, from the more specific aspects of choice theory and signal detection, to more general scientific and philosophical issues. I have a particular interest in the philosophy of science known as ‘behaviorism’ and the blog title was an intended insult given to me during a debate on that topic.

    Most recent entries, worth reading IMHO:

    What it does mean, however, is that limiting self-awareness to a single area of the brain is necessarily wrong, and this doesn’t even take into account the second argument raised by Marino; that convergent functions can come about utilising different, yet analogous brain structures. What this means is that, as the example given in the video suggests, it is as wrong to say that animals can’t be self-aware because they lack a pre-frontal cortex in the same way it is wrong to say that a balloon can’t fly because it has no wings.

    Recently, a classic experiment in priming by Bargh, Chen, and Burrows2 was called into question by Doyen, Klein, and Pichon in their paper: “Behavioral Priming: It’s All in the Mind, but Whose Mind?”3. The original study looked at the effect that including “old” words in a language task has on the speed at which subjects leave the lab following the experiment, so the expectation was that if a list of words a subject was asked to memorise included words like “old”, “grey”, or “bingo” (among others) then the participants would walk slower as they leave the room. Doyen, however, suspected that subtle behaviors of the experimenters may have affected the behavior of the subjects and so they attempted to replicate the study with a stricter methodology to rule out a number of possible confounds.

  40. sc_a942540180f51643a3a9fb823ce24e83 says

    Sorry about the Google login streamfest. I’m @shanemuk on Twitter, and shamelessly want to use PZ’s Lounge to ask you all, IF you care about dragging Northern Ireland (yes, it exists) into the 21st Century, to sign the pledge to get our benighted politicians a copy of the Geek Manifesto, Mark Henderson’s lovely book about getting science & evidence into policy.

    Find out more and sign the pledge here:

    Go on go on go on go on…

    *ends spam*

  41. McC2lhu saw what you did there. says

    This has probably crossed the Pharyngula Lounge news editor’s desk already, but there’s now a kerfuffle over the famous end of WWII photo of a couple kissing. A little more insight and info, and suddenly the moment is skeezy. I’m despondent to see history changed, but the point is valid:
    Linky to article.

    It also needs someone to shite all over the MRAs in the comments. I didn’t see the article until just now before bed, so I’m a worthless contributor this close to pass out time.

  42. McC2lhu saw what you did there. says

    Which sockpuppet is more famous now, Lambchop or Dillahunty?

  43. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    Well, since I have to ask, “Who is Dillahunty,” for me the answer is oblivious.

  44. Gregory Greenwood says

    Has anyone else heard about these three Cabinet minsiters in the UK who are trying to get the limit for abortion access lowered?

    The laughably entitled ‘Health Secretary’ Jeremy Hunt favours a reduction to only twelve weeks. He claims to have reviewed the evidence, but he clearly has no grasp of the issues at hand whatsoever. Then there are the Home Secretary Theresa May and the Women’s Minister Maria Miller (yup, that’s right, the Woman’s Minister wants to restrict abortion rights) who both favour a reduction from 24 to 20 weeks. Cameron himself is on record saying that he favours a ‘modest reduction’ without specifying what this would mean.

    There is much blather coming from the government that this is all ‘personal opinion’ and doesn’t reflect policy, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are testing the water and seeing what response they get, and that if the public response is not extremely negative then a future attempt to further restrict abortion access is very likely indeed.

    Already the UK anti-choicers (complete with their ever-present whiff of American dollars) have come out vowing to re-open the debate on abortion access. It seems that the issue is set to become as politicised here as it is in the US.

  45. says

    Good morning, everyone!

    Had a doc’s appointment yesterday– DarkFetus is still breech, but besides that all is well. According to my doc, DF is big enough to be delivered safely at any time now, so if I go into labor before my c-section date, it’s no biggie. Ooooooo, I’m so excited!

    And now I’m off to make cinnamon rolls. :)

  46. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says




    And now I’m off to make cinnamon rolls. :)

    Doesn’t cinnamon come already rolled? :)

  47. Gregory Greenwood says

    All the best Audley. Soon your life with be filled with the patter of little Dark Spawn feet….

  48. says

    Thanks, everyone! ♥!

    The only thing I have left to do is buy a car seat and boy, that shit is expensive. Thankfully, Mr Darkheart’s coworkers gave him a gift card to one of the baby stores in the area, so we’ll only be spending about half the amount. :)

  49. says

    Yay Audley and Dark Fetus!
    Cinnamon rolls? You want rush things*

    *Cinnamon is claimed to start and strengthen labour, but my midwife used to say: before you eat enough of it to have an effect you puke from the amount you’ve eaten.

  50. says

    To all the folks sending congrats and what-not towards me and my wife… thanks! We couldn’t have done it without you. Literally: a generous Horde donation paid for my wife’s 1500 mile drive to her current job, and kept me fed until her first paycheck.

    Now we wait for the negotiations… and it doesn’t look awesome so far. BossNurse is certainly NOT getting the $105,000 she was dreaming about. In the plus column, the yearly bonus is 15% if she gets it, so that has to be part of the equation as well. Plus, we’re going to try to rent for at least $100 cheaper than we’re paying now, and we’re about to pay off our car so that’s $340 a month less than we’re currently budgeted for. If we can save $440 a month compared to our current bills, that’s $5280 a year. So my wife makes what she’s been making minus $5280 after taxes, we come out even.

    Luckily for both of us, my wife works through recruiters who handle these negotiations so she doesn’t have to get her hands dirty.

  51. says

    They weren’t homemade cinnamon rolls, but the kind that comes out of a cardboard tube. I’d be highly surprised if there was any real cinnamon in them at all. XD

    And if DF comes this weekend… well, I’m not going to be upset about that in the least. I am so ready (and impatient!) for this.

    Love to you and BossNurse. Good luck in her negotiations!

  52. says

    Some Christian pastors are deliberately breaking the law today.

    On Sunday, October 7, pastors around the country will try to bait the federal government into investigating them by preaching explicitly partisan sermons. As part of a conservative movement organizers call “Pulpit Freedom Sunday,” some religious leaders will endorse Mitt Romney from the pulpit. Others may refrain from an endorsement but vigorously criticize President Obama. And some will tell their congregations that a good Christian can only vote for a candidate who opposes gay marriage and abortion. Then they’ll send tapes of their sermons to the Internal Revenue Service in the hopes of being audited.

    Mike Huckabee and Glenn Beck have both used their media platforms recently to help promote the event.

  53. chigau (悲しい) says

    I thought the “separation of church and state” was about the state not promoting a particular church.
    Does it also mean that churches can’t say anything about the state?

  54. says


    It is more about the tax-exempt status of churches and other non-profit organizations in general. It isn’t a religious freedom issue, it is a tax policy issue.

  55. dianne says

    And now I’m off to make cinnamon rolls. :)

    Careful. I made cinnamon rolls and went into labor the same night. Since I made bread and cleaned the house the same day (the latter being EXTREMELY rare behavior for me, especially when spontaneous), I’ve always assumed nesting, not cinnamon induced labor. But if you’ve suddenly got the urge to bake…

  56. says

    @48 jefrir
    When I worked at a public library in my teens, we didn’t get longer checkout times, we just didn’t have to pay fines and could renew indefinitely as long as there wasn’t a hold on the item for someone else. The 2 times limite on renewing wasn’t system enforced, and the fines weren’t linked to any record of them being paid, so the official way of dealing with employee and volunteer’s fines was to mark them paid in the computer.

    Now that I live in a different state, I looked up volunteering at my local public library and found that employees and volunteers don’t have any privileges like that – they have to pay their fines and don’t get any extra long check out times.

    @58 Gilliel

  57. mythbri says

    The LDS General Conference is happening this weekend, and I’m seeing on Facebook that the current “prophet” just announced a change for proselytizing mission eligibility:

    Boys will now be eligible to go on missions at 18, if they’ve graduated from high school.

    Girls will now be eligible to go on missions at 19, if they’ve graduated from high school.

    I’ve had female friends who have served missions (not being eligible until they were 21), and I wonder if this will result in a change in the attitude that Elders (male missionaries) tend to have toward Sisters (female missionaries). The attitude was, basically, that women only served missions because they hadn’t gotten anyone to marry them yet.

    It’s not equal, but it’s closer. And I’m not sure if women are allowed to serve for a full two years, instead of the 18 months they’ve been allowed.

  58. says

    I so believe it. Those last weeks, you’re just fed up with being pregnant and just want it to be over and have that little critter finally where you can see them.

    this one. Don’t know the other one, so it probably doesn’t matter. Actually, the basic recipe is “grate any non-mushy veggie and potatoes”.

    So, kite flying didn’t work, but we had a nice afternoon out.

  59. says

    Damn right BDC… I spend at least two evenings a week, carefully crafting very specific things to shout at women who are complete strangers. I mean, it is HARD WORK! You have to hone your craft, learn the right way to pitch your voice to carry in different environments, all sorts of things. Plus you have to be age, race, and body-type specific, adjust for relative wealth and social status, and so on.

    People think you can just stand on a street corner and shout “Hey, honey-lumps! Let me stick my pickle between your pearly gates?” and call it a job well done. I’m here to tell you that there’s an art to being a giant douchecanoe!

  60. says

    In reference to #86, LDS General Conference and the change in age for young missionaries:

    1. Stinks of desperation. Not getting enough 19 year old males? Change the age to 18.

    2. Stinks of desperation. Too many young men figuring out by age 19 that the entire LDS Church is built on a foundation of bullshit? Change the age to 18 and get them while they are still vulnerable to brainwashing.

    3. Stinks of desperation. Not enough young men signing up to waste two years of their lives? Sacrifice more of the young women as well. A lot of the young women are putting off having babies, (instead of putting the baby factory into round-the-clock production at age 18 like they should), so we might as well send them on missions.

    4. Losing too many young men to college, armed services, and reason? Grab them while they’re younger.

  61. says

    RollingStone’s Matt Taibbi weighs in on the presidential debate:

    … Romney’s performance was better than Obama’s, but only if you throw out criteria like “wasn’t 100% full of shit from the opening bell” and “made an actual attempt to explain who he is and what his plans are.” Unfortunately, that is good enough for our news media, which drools over the gamesmanship aspects of these debates, because it loves candidates who sink their teeth into the horse-race nonsense that they think validates their professional lives. …

  62. Krasnaya Koshka says

    I know I only post when I’m in crisis mode emotionally but, yes, I am in crisis mode, again.

    I’m in Thailand and it’s a beautiful country with beautiful people and I love the music here. (Seriously, my tastes are unimportant.)

    Tonight, whilst riding in a tuk tuk, an old man on a Vespa shouted to me, “Are you making the best of it here?” He was right behind the tuk tuk and I didn’t imagine he was speaking to me. So I, of course, ignored him.

    “You’re American, right?!”

    “Are you talking to me?”

    “Yes! They’re very gay-friendly here. You can pick up any girl you want.” I am very, very butch right now–meaning my hair is very short. In my experience, that is all it takes. Short hair.

    It was then I noticed the two girls behind him on his motorbike. (He was behind me.) To me, they looked miserable. Maybe eleven years old.

    “Yeah, I’m not a fucking pervert but thanks. I like my girlfriend, because she’s my peer. I think pedophiles are disgusting.”

    “You think I am a pedophile? I’m not. Love these young women because they are young women.”

    “Is your ancient penis more important than these girls’ lives?”

    I had no clue how many more times I would have to say this tonight. And not just for girls. For boys, too.

    “Why the fuck do you think your penis should be happier than these kids?”

  63. Krasnaya Koshka says

    mythbri, talking to these kids, it’s all they know. Some of them were very angry at me so I paid them. This is not optimal, I know. But, fuck, can America keep old men from traveling to Thailand alone? I suppose not.

    What can keep men from preying on the weak? Why don’t they know better?

  64. says

    “Cutting PBS support (0.012% of budget) to help balance the Federal budget is like deleting text files to make room on your 500Gig hard drive.” — Neil DeGrasse Tyson

  65. pixelfish says

    I see Lynna has diagnosed the missionary age change similarly to me. My comments were back on the Temple Film thread, because I keep forgetting about open threads, but since nobody’s on that thread currently, I hope you’ll forgive me if I repost them here:

    So the first two sessions of the Church semi-annual conference went down in SLC today, and lo and behold, it gets announced that the age requirement for missionaries has been lowered, from 19 to 18 for men, and from 21 to 19 for women.

    There’s some interesting things to unpack in this, but I personally see this as a sign that the LDS church is starting to bleed followers noticeably or they would never have taken this step.

    For one thing, going on a mission means your first chance to enter Mormon adulthood and go into the temple. As we’ve seen from this video, that’s no great prospect BUT the younger you are, the more likely you are to be swayed by this. For one thing, even despite your age, you’ve finally been allowed to see the secret thing your parents and older relatives haven’t talked about…and you’ll be getting it practically straight out of high school, instead of 2 or 3 years down the road when you’ve possibly been exposed to the secular agenda of your higher education. Basically, they’re shoving kids into the “greatest” commitments of their religion even earlier.

    Secondly, they lowered the women’s age requirement to the men’s previous age requirement. (They aren’t interested in equality between the sexes or BOTH genders would have had the same age requirements.) Previously, this disparity has always been explained that it is more important for women to get married and start families than to go on a mission and EVEN THEN women would be thoroughly grilled by their bishops to make sure that there was no potential return missionary who has been hanging around. This happened to my sister, who was planning on serving a mission when she met my brother-in-law. I like my brother-in-law and think he’s pretty decent, and he’s especially nice to me because he has two non-active/ex-Mormon sibs, so he’s probably the best BIL I could have hoped for, so I’m not sad, but still…the point remains: women are not encouraged to go on missions, but to get married.

    But, what with no active encouragement to serve missions Just In Case, women were finding themselves with 2,3,4,5, maybe even more years before attending the temple, becoming educated and independent without that stamp of Official LDS Adulthood. (And it is a Big Thing in Mormonland. As an adult, I was sometimes excluded from gettogethers with older relatives because I hadn’t been through the temple and/or gotten married.)

    My major (speculative, based on my experience with LDS values and the rhetoric around missions and gender roles) surmise is that the church is starting to discover that more young folks are either not making it to missions and marriage at all, or leaving the church more publically. Hence, lower the age requirements, get the kids into the temple, and get them invested before they know the full taste of adulthood and education.

    Sad thing is, I think it would work for a while. Again, drawing from my own experiences, if I’d had a chance to serve a mission right after school, I would have jumped at it. (My German teacher had a pretty solid record of her students serving German language missions and I almost certainly would have gone to Europe.) So I would have gone to the temple earlier and had more invested by the time I started reaching full adulthood. I had the chance to slip away because my culture kept telling me that my only value lay in wife and mommyhood and thus kept me cooling my heels in school. So before I hit 21, I had lived on my own, visited a couple cities outside of Utah, seen enough of the world to realise I didn’t want to be stuck at the back of Plato’s Cave, and had a chance to let all the doctrinal inconsistencies marinate. And because I wasn’t married with kids nor had I gone through the temple, it was much easier for me to leave than it otherwise would have been. (Still not easy, mind you.)

    We laugh at the temple movie and we see it as groaningly awful, but many Mormons don’t…and I think it’s largely because of the sunk costs and time investment and how everything was built up for them. Push them at it even earlier, and I think you’ll find a higher retention rate.

    But not forever. Because information spreads and our cultures evolve. And make no mistake–they wouldn’t have considered going against a traditional age requirement if they weren’t bleeding members somewhere.

  66. says

    Oh, that damned Congressional Budget Office! It is insisting once again on reporting the facts, inconvenient though they may be to Romney, who claimed that President Obama “doubled the deficit.” No, he didn’t, not for any meaning of “doubled” with which I am familair.

    And now the CBO is reporting that “the Federal Deficit has dropped another $200 Billion to a level of $1.1 Trillion – which is the lowest level it has been since 2008 when the Financial Crisis began.”

    The CBO projects that for 2013 is the deficit will be just $641 Billion. Obviously, this could change if Mitt Romney is elected and extends all the Bush tax cuts, plus adding his own.

  67. says

    Okay, I think we already knew this, but it’s nice to have an official analysis. American newspapers give far more coverage climate change deniers and skeptics than the newspapers of other countries.

    America is unique when it comes to giving a platform to climate deniers and skeptics.

    According to a new analysis of data released last year, American newspapers are far more likely to publish uncontested claims from climate deniers, many of whom challenge whether the planet is warming at all and are “almost exclusively found” in the U.S. media. The study was published in the journal Environmental Research Letters….


    Dramatic graph of USA’s stupidity is included.

  68. says

    women would be thoroughly grilled by their bishops to make sure that there was no potential return missionary who has been hanging around. This happened to my sister…

    Feeling sorry for your sister, pixelfish. Feeling sigh of relief for your luck. Things could have so easily gone the wrong way for you.

  69. says

    Looks to me like Republicans are planning to win elections “retroactively,” as Think Progress has also pointed out.

    Republican National Lawyers Association Plan For Losing Candidates: Challenge Absentee Voters.

    So, having failed to have the courts uphold most of their voter suppression laws, Republicans have switched to plan B.

    Republican lawyers have a plan for their candidates who lose on Election Day: send operatives to absentee voters’ homes and challenge their ballots….

    BTW, Rachel Maddow pointed out that even though voter suppression laws have been struck down for the most part, the States in which those laws were passed have been worse than lax in informing voters that those doofus-brained restrictions no longer apply. A lot of people still think the restrictions are in place, so they are likely to be discouraged from voting.

  70. says

    In a 4-3 ruling Tuesday afternoon, the Connecticut State Supreme Court overturned the sexual assault conviction of a man who had sex with a woman who “has severe cerebral palsy, has the intellectual functional equivalent of a 3-year-old and cannot verbally communicate.” The Court held that, because Connecticut statutes define physical incapacity for the purpose of sexual assault as “unconscious or for any other reason. . . physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act,” the defendant could not be convicted if there was any chance that the victim could have communicated her lack of consent. Since the victim in this case was capable of “biting, kicking, scratching, screeching, groaning or gesturing,” the Court ruled that that victim could have communicated lack of consent despite her serious mental deficiencies…

    No comment.

    Too fucking awful for comments.

  71. says

    Add this to the list of very bad rulings by Republican dunderheads:

    Judge Charles Lovell, a Ronald Reagan appointee to the federal bench in Montana, issue a sweeping, nearly entirely unexplained opinion striking down Montana’s limits on contributions to political campaigns. So long as the judge’s decision is in effect, it means that wealthy individuals will be free to give unlimited sums of money directly to candidates for state offices in Montana….

  72. mythbri says

    Just so it’s clear, my comment about the LDS mission rule changes wasn’t in any way approbation. If they were really interested in equality, then the rules would be the same. And to make kids eligible as soon as they should be starting college is exactly as Lynna and pixelfish have said. They might claim to value education, but I’ll bet that since younger people, including young Mormons, tend to be progressive they’ve probably lost a lot of members as they’ve gone through higher education. I know that’s what happened in my case.

    I don’t think that anyone should go on those missions, but I was curious to see if making the mission rules closer would do something to minimize the dismissive attitudes that Elders have toward Sisters. There’s no way that they would in any way be eliminated.

    In the structural organization of the LDS Church, no male is placed under the direct authority of a woman after he reaches the age of 12 and receives the first part of the “priesthood”. There is not a single time when he would report or answer to a woman in the context of the church after that. Women are only in charge of other women, and children. No organization that patriarchal could ever be equal.

  73. Beatrice says

    Spent a lovely day at a friend’s home. Traveled there with another friend who made quite a long trip just to make it to the capital. Luckily, she took most of the things I’ve been keeping for her when she left for home tonight (yes, she didn’t want to stay the weekend, I’m a bit hurt).

    The friend we visited was celebrating getting her master’s degree. Most people were her relatives, of which I only knew her boyfriend and have met her brother and sister-in-law once before.

    I survived!

    Was awkward as usual and didn’t speak much, but I don’t think I was too weird.

    Friend makes wicked cakes. Tried three different kinds and had to give up on the fourth because I couldn’t breath for how stuffed I was.

    Her little nephew is the cutest kid in the world. Watching him dancing around was half the entertainment of the day.

  74. mythbri says


    If that rape victim had the intellectual function equivalent to a three-year-old, how in the fucking world does that make her capable of “consent”? A three-year-old child cannot consent, and neither can any human with the mind of a three-year-old.

    I can’t even describe how I feel about the fact that someone got away with that.

  75. Beatrice says

    I just realized that in that post above I implied that my friend’s boyfriend is her relative. He isn’t.
    Too tired.
    Good night

  76. cicely says

    Tigger: yay! for feeling better.

    had fun telling Number 4 Son’s fundie youth group leader that Dark Matter must be the souls of departed people and Dark Energy must be Angels)

    :D :D :D

    This thing or this thing? Or another thing? Or does it matter?

    If you’re talkin’ Jack-o-lantern, I’d go with the eerily pale blue pumpkin.

    If that rape victim had the intellectual function equivalent to a three-year-old, how in the fucking world does that make her capable of “consent”? A three-year-old child cannot consent, and neither can any human with the mind of a three-year-old.

    I can’t even describe how I feel about the fact that someone got away with that.

    Exactly what I was thinking!

  77. pixelfish says

    @mythbri: No worries. I didn’t interpret your comments as anything other than noting that lessening the age distance might result in the elders treating the sisters better. :) Of course, if it does, it’ll be in the area of unintended consequences because as you note, there’s a lot the GAs could do to get the men of the church to treat the women of the church with more respect and they haven’t done any of it.

    Mythbri and Lynna and our other ex-Mormons know this, but here’s a fun factoid about the priesthood roles for you never-Mos: In the absence of the father, a 12 year old son has the responsibility to lead family meetings before his mother does. Or the family’s Home Teachers–the dudes who come in once a month to preach at the family in the home.

  78. carlie says

    Glad you’re doing well, Tigger. A colleague of mine went in for a stress test, came out needing stents, just went in for the stents, and came out needing multiple bypass. Hearts are pains in the asses.

    Had a weird cultural coincidence this week. A local video store is going out of business, and I stopped by Wed. and found they had Spirited Away. Had never seen it although I’ve heard all about how great it is, so snapped it up. Then a new Gravity Falls was on last night (fantastic show), and it had a monster called the Summerween Trickster, who was a dead-on homage to the No-face monster in Spirited Away. We would have entirely missed that reference if we hadn’t just gotten the movie and seen it. Ooooo. Maybe it was God, making sure that I got maximum enjoyment out of Halloween and Japanese spirit monsters. ‘Cause he’s like that.

  79. says

    Well… if you guys don’t hear from me for awhile, it is because someone attacked me and I was either injured or I was forced to injure someone else. I fully expect my new neighbors to make a move on me sometime in the next couple of days. They are so so SO angry at me right now. Their dog tried to attack my dog so I called animal control. Apparently I’m the asshole for not tolerating their breaking the city ordinance against animal neglect and the constant barking and aggressive behavior from their dog.

    This is not going to end well. I’m out of here in 35 days, if I can live that long.

  80. says

    ***lighting the Caine signal***

    There’s a critter on my neighbor’s steps. I can’t tell whether it’s a large mouse or a small rat. I thought the tail was furless, but when I got closer it’s just finely furred.

    It’s a dirty white with splotches of black on the ears.

    Is this a (former) pet or a wild rat?

  81. Portia says

    Audley – yay! : )

    I am a football widow again this weekend so I have been trying to keep busy (One of my things is to get mopey and dejected whenever SO goes to a college football game out of town. Maybe it’s because there are just so many this time of year). I made an awesome potato/sweetpotato/corn/kidneybean/greenbean/kale soup, and am about to start some bread for rising overnight. I did laundry and painted my house number on the mailbox I’m putting up this week. And I worked on a couple of other painting projects. Also stuffed 999 envelopes (yeah, I counted) for the fire department’s annual fundraising mailout. So, I think I’m almost distracted enough.

    It’s interesting to me that the LDS church is so transparently trying to hook young people earlier and earlier. Hopefully they keep slipping out of the church’s grasp.

    Also, on the church-taxation issue, I think Stephen Colbert said it the most succinctly when he had a pastor on this week who was saying that taxing political speech violates the First Amendment: “I wish I could get my political speech subsidized by the government like that!” /paraphrased

  82. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    The booze be drunk. The cake be eaten. The copyrighted song be sung. The bouncing castle be packed away, and lost and lonely artifacts be gathered to await the worried’s call. Mrs. Fishy be well and truly launched into her forty-first trip round our merry little sun.

    She wore a fun and funky yellow dress. I wore my matrimonial tie and shined my shoes. Daughter O’ mine wore her bling. All her bling. Who knew that plastic tiaras were bouncing castle proof?

    There were aunts. There were Nana’s. Mother’s and cousins. There were friends of work and friends of play and friends of friends and children beyond count in their energetic superposition.

    Stories were told. Again and for the first time. Jokes were made and laughed at. Puns were inflicted and the victims groaned while the perps beamed all innocent exterior over a chewily mischievous center. Eye-rolls were dispensed gratis between family members in that secret language of the oft heard tale. All the world’s problems were dissected, solved and returned to the queue to be re-solved next gathering.

    The extroverts shone and preened and drew the eye, gathering energy aplenty to see them through the quiet times ahead. The introverts found the calmer corners, some watching, waiting for the right time to express their love and then make their escape. Though others stayed, happy to observe in quiet bemusement the doings of those for whom crowds are the very stuff of life.

    This was humanity in all its weird and messy glory. This was the herd, the tribe, the pack, the troupe, gathered close to remember that we are all in this strange and wondrous world together, right here, right now, and never again. We whirl our way around the sun in this finite dance and how lucky
    are we, that we don’t have to do it alone?

    Life be well and truly celebrated here and now, in my little corner of the world. I invite you, one and all, wherever you are, whatever your circumstances, to share in that joy of being alive.

  83. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Oh indeed Sailor, were I of a religious bent I’d say that that tiara was miraculous. ;)

    I’m not sure if everyone had a good time but I try to keep an eye out for those in need and didn’t find any. Mind you, in any large gathering there’s bound to be a few not doing well. Here’s hoping that their troubles were at least not made worse by that evening’s festivities.

  84. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    Here’s a cute video from Canada’s national film board. The Log Driver’s Waltz is kind of old-style, and the cartoon animation is a little odd, but I am liking the music. (The odd word in the chorus is “birling” which is Scottish for log-rolling, apparently.) I want to be a log driver.

  85. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    FossilFishy, thanks for the great description. It sounds like much fun.

  86. says


    I feel you on the “football widow” thing– this weekend, Mr Darkheart is attending a (small, local) gaming con, so I’ve got the apartment to myself. I was going to spend the night cleaning*, actually update my blog**, and maybe make a pan of brownies and watch a movie. At the rate I’m going, I’ll be lucky if I heat up a Pop Tart and play an hour of Resident Evil before passing out on the couch.

    *Okay, I have done two loads of dishes, because I just can’t stand the thought of a dirty kitchen right now and somehow between last night and today my apartment exploded.

    **Since I scheduled my c-section, almost everyone I know has been supportive and understanding. Almost everyone: I know some natural childbirth/”natural parenting” woosters that are blaming my docs for not being able to turn DarkFetus and acting like having a c-section is some sort of tragedy. I find this “natural at all costs” mindset to be both highly disturbing and, well, pretty anti-feminist.

    Oh yeah, the two friends of mine who are the biggest pushers of this bullshit? Both are childless. *eyeroll*

  87. birgerjohansson says

    Isn’t the current LDS “prophet” senile?
    So the change in policy would be the work of the clique who have silently taken over his job.

  88. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Your welcome Menyambal. And thank you for that vid. I haven’t seen that in years, a good nostalgic moment for me. Mind you, when I’m trying to shake that tune from my head in a week’s time I might feel differently. :)

  89. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Finally got the storm windows up as tonight is the first scheduled frost in outlying (away from the Lake) areas. Official prediction near the Lake is just above frost. Best to be prepared. Need to find another a blanket/quilt/comforter for the Redhead, just in case. I’ll be fine.

  90. Portia says


    Well, I’m glad we’re both making ourselves useful : ) Two loads of dishes is a lot of cleaning if you don’t feel motivated.

    I’m going to start a new fall-themed painting, I think. Primed the canvasses and I’m ready to go with my late-evening energy burst .

    I know it’s been discussed a lot here, but I don’t understand the gall of some people. If you are happy with your plans and your doctors, it really is unfeminist to try to tell you that you are Doin It Rong. I mean, I’m childless, and therefore don’t have any frame of reference for such an experience. Of course, people who *do* have kids and think they’re experts are just as obnoxious, I imagine. Sorry your woo-friends are so presumptuous. Combative Cousin is like that, very “wimmin have Natural Power™” and all that. She wants to be a midwife, no surprise. But I doula’d for our mutual friend, even though it’s what CC does for a part time living. Because I made a concerted effort to be supportive and carry out what the friend wanted, instead of being pushy about the Right Way.

    FossilFishy: Happy birthday to Mrs. Fishy : ) And I love your writing. Your comment made me a little misty

  91. cicely says

    Joe, be careful.
    *worrying with professional virtousity*

    Sounds like a heck of a party, FossilFishy.

  92. says

    Thankfully, it’s the moms I know are the ones who have been the most supportive. They understand that pregnancy and birth are processes that are full of surprises and that even the best made plans can go screwy pretty quickly. Even my own hippy, crunchy granola Mom is cool with my planned c-section and that is a bit of a shock to me.

    Shaming women for doing what they think is best is pretty fucking ridiculous, in my book. No, a c-section is not what I originally wanted, but I’m not some child who needs her hand held while making a medical decision. And since I’m pretty sure that trying to deliver a butt first baby is pretty freaking dangerous, I’ll take the option that poses the lowest risk. I don’t need to suffer to prove my womanliness or whatever.

    In other news, I just found out that my toaster has a Pop Tart setting.

  93. Portia says

    I like discoveries like that : ) Does it make a better pop tart?

    Glad your mom and mom-friends are supportive.

    I’ve run out of energy so the canvasses have one coat and the bread will be made tomorrow. Now I’ma make some pomegranate white tea and cozy up.

  94. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Advice from Quebecois Francophones? I’m in Quebec City for a few days and I want to be as non-obnoxious as possible. It’s clearly rude to just start speaking to people in English, but my French is very rusty. I’d like a way to graciously say so and ask if my conversational partner would mind speaking to me in English. What would you suggest?

    “Je suis desole, mais je ne parle pas bien le Francais.”?

    Something else?

  95. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    chigau: That got a real LOL.

    [Thinks back to highschool French class] Uhm, Il y a des castor la bas?

  96. chigau (悲しい) says

    Je n’ sais pas. Peut-être une petite mouton.
    (Où est M. Thibault?)

  97. ednaz says

    FossilFishy – Thank You for your wonderful story. Sounds like your party was a big success.

  98. says

    Sailor — not Caine, obvs, but are you sure it’s not a baby opossum? The whole light-with-dark-splotched-ears sure sounds like it. (As does the hanging-out-on-porches. Do those neighbors have cats or dogs with outside food dishes?)

    Although in my experience, very young baby possums are slightly larger than a rat.

  99. pixelfish says

    @119 Birgerjansen: Current prophet is Thomas S. Monson. He wasn’t senile last I checked, but you really don’t want him to kick off before Boyd K. Packer, his number 2, goes, since Packer is the Ratzinger to Monson’s JPII. The prophet who was longest in and definitely senile was Ezra Taft Benson, former Bircher.

  100. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    Oy. I just saw a video ad that was anti-Obama, although it pretended to be something impartial about the economy. It proved that the U.S. was in trouble by highlighting a state that had employment below the national average. I kept waiting for it to make the point, then realized that was the point—a state’s employment rate is below the national average, therefore the economy of the nation is bad. Vote Republican.

    {Maybe, just maybe, they meant that that state should have been above average—it could have been Nevada, maybe, and that might make sense—but they never said that. It was like the opposite of Lake Wobegon.)

  101. Crudely Wrott says

    An hour ago would have been more timely but I’d like to give a special word of appreciation to the the most worthy OM, Lynna.

    You are an unending source of information and perspective. I am certainly not alone in finding your posts of great value. Thank you so very much for your efforts and your dedication and your tenacity. This thread is emblematic of many others and I always look forward to what you have to say, to reveal and to shine a bright light on.

    Please, do continue for the continued benefit of all who read your words of experience and insight.
    And to Sailor, yes, the little critter was probably a young opossum just trying to find its way in the world. Can be safely ignored or studied; either way it will behave the same, mostly harmless.

  102. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    Improbable Joe, I hope the dog thing works out. Dog owners can be nutso.

    I once had a dog come into my yard and aggressively threaten me and my girlfriend. He got close enough to kick, which was my definition of too close, and I snapped one to his head. He ran yelping. So his owners came into my yard and aggressively threatened me.

    Oy. The kids are having a sleep-over/movie night and I am chaperoning from down the hall. I’m too tired to research, to learn or to write, and I can’t take much more giggling.

  103. says

    Good morning
    Yay, I found something that keeps Mr. at the Sunday breakfast table for longer than 5 min. Freshly baked croissants

    Krasnaja Koshka
    That’s so horrible.
    We pay billions and gazillions for war. Why can’t way pay to get those families out of poverty so they won’t sell their children into prostitution?

    Urgh, good luck. I really know that feeling. Since I called the housing agency because those construction workers are assholes who create serious health hazards I’m pretty uncomfortable to park my car here…
    Not to insinuate that my car is similar to your health, of course.


    In a 4-3 ruling Tuesday afternoon, the Connecticut State Supreme Court overturned the sexual assault conviction of a man who had sex with a woman who “has severe cerebral palsy, has the intellectual functional equivalent of a 3-year-old and cannot verbally communicate.”

    Holy fucking shit.
    A) 3 years old cannot consent, so neither can people with the mental capacities of 3 yo
    B) Consent is a NO until Yes. HOw could he be sure he had consent (given that the person is unable to give it anyway?)

    Yeah, to put the process over outcome. Fucking bullshit. Who cares which way DF enters the world if the two of you are healthy and happy afterwards?
    The goal of pregnancy and childbirth is to have a child, not to push something through your vagina under pain.

    Sounds like lots of fun

  104. says

    It’s a dirty white with splotches of black on the ears.

    Is this a (former) pet or a wild rat?

    Um, that’s not much of a description. Rats are distinctive looking, so if it is a rat, should be fairly obvious. That said, I don’t imagine you’d find a wild rat that’s white. You can try to trap it and get it to a vet for identification, but I’d be careful, considering you don’t know what you have – a bite wouldn’t be good.

    Kristin’s suggestion of a possum is a distinct possibility. Look at some pics on the net and see if that’s helpful.

  105. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    Freshly baked croissants? Dang, Giliell, do you have any extra?

    Audley, I agree with Giliell. Childbirth is right at the edge of human ability—big-brained babies and walking upright are not a good mix, and only recently have advances in medicine taken childbirth out of the major-killer category. Take every advantage of medical help you want, and if anybody tells you childbirth is a natural process, spit in their eye and tell them that was natural, too.

  106. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    I once had a dog come into my yard and aggressively threaten me and my girlfriend. He got close enough to kick, which was my definition of too close, and I snapped one to his head. He ran yelping. So his owners came into my yard and aggressively threatened me.

    Jesus. I just remembered…when I was about 13-14 my parents got a call, asking for me by name, from some asshole who was talking angrily about what sounded like “dead babies” in his yard, and claiming that his dog was sniffing around them. He announced that he was “pretty sure they’re yours” and threatened to hurt me if his dog caught anything. I handed the phone back to my parents and he claimed to have gotten the number out of the Alameda County phone book (it was an unlisted number and we lived nowhere near Alameda County). Unfortunately, at that point my parents insistently dismissed everything blatantly deranged as “obviously a joke” (this, Westboro Baptist Church flavor sites, etc.) and nothing was done. >.> I seem to recall the situation seeming too surreal to be frightening at the time, but in retrospect… O.o

  107. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    I just remembered a time I was out for a bicycle ride with a group of friends, and a big dog came out on the road after us. Back then, we carried light aluminum tire pumps about a foot or two long, in little brackets on the bike, and we used them for dog defense, even though making contact could break the pump. Somebody swung a pump or two at the dog, and we got on away. A few minutes later, a car screeched up and a man jumped out and started yelling at us. His wife had told him that we were attacking his dog and beating it with hammers.

    (Nowadays, I spray the dog in the face with a water bottle. Tire pumps are even smaller now, so they are useless. Pepper spray just seems too much like looking for trouble, somehow. But there are days I’m short on water … )

  108. dianne says

    Josh, some anecdotal experience with countries where I don’t speak the language or speak it poorly, in case they help:

    1. You might find that your French is better or at least more useful than you think. I was able to get around Paris without disgracing myself too badly (except in the accent department) with just high school French I hadn’t used in many years. Things do come back to you, especially in comprehension. Seeing a known but forgotten word will often bring it back into your active vocabulary.
    2. It’s Canada. Most people will have a working familiarity with English, even in Quebec. They’ll probably switch if you are struggling. However, it’s my impression that people frequently appreciate you making the effort to try to speak their language, even if the effort is in the end mostly futile. (Could non-English speakers please tell me if this impression is, in their opinion, correct? Or should I be jumping directly to asking if they speak English and not making them suffer my bad accent, vocabulary, and grammar?)
    3. Asking politely if someone speaks English, even if you ask in English, makes you embarrassingly more polite than the average US-American visitor.

  109. dianne says

    Shaming women for doing what they think is best is pretty fucking ridiculous, in my book.

    Yep. Childbirth used to be a killer to the tune of 30% of women who tried it. A study in Afghanistan found up to 1 in 6 women in rural Afghanistan died in childbirth (throughout their lifetimes, not in a single birth) and they (sometimes) have access to a certain level of care. Not to mention that having a stillbirth used to be the norm…

    From my personal point of view, anyone who thinks giving birth by c-section makes you a failure can bite my (still living because of a c-section) ass.

  110. opposablethumbs says

    fwiw, I think what Josh wrote is perfectly fine. Variants … j’suis désolé mais mon français est nul – ça t’embêterait pas si on parlait en anglais? [OR ça vous embêterait pas if the interlocutor is a person one would address as vous rather than tu]. Or just, on pourrait parler en anglais? for the second bit. nul is a bit slangy, roughly equivalent to saying “my French is useless/my French is rubbish. Would you mind if we spoke English?”. You can also give strict(ish) grammatical rules the shove and simplify the second part to ça t’embête pas si on parle en anglais? or on peut parler en anglais?
    All the French I’ve learned is European, though. Looking forward to seeing what those with real first-hand knowledge say!

  111. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    We found about 30 species of herps, including a Siren species that has yet to be named and described!

    That’s fantastic.

    I do, however, have a question. How does one know that one has discovered a previously undescribed species? Okay, more than one. What happens if one formally describes, in a published peer-reviewed paper, a description of a new species that someone else has already described (I understand about the primacy of the first description and that the new description becomes a junior synonym, but does it damage careers, create bad blood, or is it considered ‘normal’?)?

  112. gillyc says

    This seems to be a good place to ask: can anyone recommend some books on Marxism? Pro, anti or neutral. I’m rather interested in it but not sure where to start! (Yes, I know it hasn’t really got much to do with Atheism but I think I’ll get a better answer here than anywhere else.)

  113. says

    @ Ogvorbis
    Well, we knew because this species and a few others have been known to be distinct species for a while, but have been lumped under Siren intermedia. Apparently there just isn’t enough information known about these species yet to publish a paper (they don’t know their range, for example). My TA actually took us to that site to find one of these Sirens because he’s found them there before. (Also, my TA knows more about local herps than the book does. Probably even more than the professor for the class.)

  114. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says


    That makes sense. And trying to find the range for a rare species? Oy!

    Back in the 1970s, a biologist found a new subspecies of (I think) Canyon Tree Frog (Hyla arenicolor). I was a rather bright pink (more saturated than the Grand Canyon Pink Rattlesnake (Crotalus oreganus abyssus)) and was found in the pools along a small creek upstream from a very tall waterfall. He found hundreds of the little herps along the creek and set out to determine the range.

    He spent the next summer checking every drainage within two miles of this creek and found none. There were still lots along the creek, but none anywhere else. Defined range? Check. Distinctive colouration? Check. Success! His chance to describe a new subspecies.

    Then a thunderstorm came through that drainage during the August monsoon. When the biologist returned in September, the drainage had been scoured of trees and shrubs. And frogs. His count for the new subspecies dropped from hundreds to zero. Zip. Nada. None.

    When I asked my dad what ever happened to this biology student, he told me that he was so depressed about losing that discovery and losing the poplulation, that he decided to become an MD instead. I have this vision of going back and finding that creek and finding it crawling with pink tree frogs. There’s almost no way that the gully washer could have killed them all.

    Anyway, sounds like you had fun. I spent the day on a rattley passenger car being pulled by a steam locomotive through the rain. I think you day was more fun.

  115. ChasCPeterson says

    I should add, that’s a cool story.
    If you remember the specific waterfall’s location, I know people in the region who’d be interested.

  116. says

    Dogs with idiot owners:
    Mr.’s former best friend has a dog he treats on the border of abuse (I’m not quite sure on which side of the border he is), which results in one massively agressive dog. This is combined with a “not my job to fence my animals properly” attitude (he once kept half the village chasing his highland cows because, fence, who? me?). So his dog escaped, ran into the garden of a friend of mine who has 3 children and threatened them.
    His reply when she complained about it?
    Well, if she didn’t want his dog in her garden she had to fence it in a way that would keep the dog outside…
    What I also loved when I walked my neighbours’ dog were dog-owners who didn’t call back their dogs. The dog I walked didn’t get along well with most other dogs. It wasn’t that much of a problem as long as both dogs were leashed. I would keep him on a short leash, bring my body between him and the other dog and he would walk calmly past the strange dog. Only it doesn’t work that well if the other dog is unleashed and runs towards your dog to play. And if I called the other dogowner they’d reply “don’t worry, my dog doesn’t bite!” Yeah, mine does, fuck you. Don’t complain about your Yorkshire Terrier getting eaten by a 70lbs boxer dog if you serve it on a plate.

  117. Beatrice says


    Yes, my impression too is that non-English speakers generally like when you try to speak their language instead of trying directly with English. You might have to switch to English in the very next sentence, but you’ll get brownie points for trying. Just don’t try it with someone who has to deal with you quickly because there are thirty people in the line behind you.

    A broken “Dobar dan”, even followed immediately by English, will earn you some love here.

  118. ChasCPeterson says

    We found about 30 species of herps

    wow! And in October?
    You must live in the southeast US. Or the tropics.

    a Siren species that has yet to be named and described!

    (bing! SE US)

    this species and a few others have been known to be distinct species for a while, but have been lumped under Siren intermedia.

    The problem here is that these putative species are defined and can be recognized only with genetic data. (My otherwise ignorant prediction is that their ranges will be bounded in large part by major rivers.)

    Sirens are awesomely cool, btw. They’re probably the sister clade to all other living salamanders, which suggests a separate lineage for about a perzillion years.

  119. says

    Hey folks…

    It is cold and raining and nasty out here. That makes me SO FUCKING HAPPY THAT YOU CAN’T EVEN UNDERSTAND! The noisy shit neighbors all stay inside when it is cold and wet and nasty out, so maybe I can have one goddamned day of peace and quiet. I wish it would rain every single day until I leave.

    Speaking of leaving, has anyone done a big cross-country move in the USA?

  120. says


    The perils of cleanliness, right? At least when my house is a mess, I don’t feel bad when I can’t find something. When my house is clean and I can’t find something, where am I even supposed to start looking for it?

    I lost my keys here for 4-5 months, couldn’t find them, and it killed me because the house was so clean. I vacuumed at least once a week, laundry got done as often as the hamper got full, once a month I’d do a more in-depth cleaning, moving most of the furniture and such. No sign of the keys. Somehow, magically, my keys were under the sofa. The keyring got underneath and then embedded into the bottom of one of the legs. Every time I moved the sofa, the keys would move with it.

  121. says

    Crudely Wrott @136

    An hour ago would have been more timely but I’d like to give a special word of appreciation to the the most worthy OM, Lynna.

    You are an unending source of information and perspective. I am certainly not alone in finding your posts of great value. Thank you so very much for your efforts and your dedication and your tenacity. This thread is emblematic of many others and I always look forward to what you have to say, to reveal and to shine a bright light on.

    Thank you very much. Too kind. [foot shuffling, blushing, pigeon chest and other pride-swelling manifestations]

    Just to keep you up to date with important but nonsensical events, I bring you my summary of the October 2012 General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (which I haven’t managed to entirely avoid because every media outlet in my area is broadcasting it live, including my local NPR station):

    The Adversary is in your bed, under your bed, and in the Internet. He is sinking his claws into right now in order to make you do the following:
    – weaken the sanctity of marriage (dog whistle against gay marriage)
    – put off having mormon babies (dog whistle against contraception and abortion and uppity women)
    – addict you to porn
    – weaken your faith
    – steal the minds and hearts of your children

    How to fight The Adversary [mormon Satan]:
    – spend even more time in church
    – bring even more church activities (family home evening etc.) into your home
    – marry those young women and get them pregnant [from old man’s point of view — it’s always an old man’s point of view]
    – LDS-only Internet
    – Send kids on missions at younger ages
    – vote for Mitt Romney [heavily veiled instruction, hidden in generalities about the dire direction of the country]
    – consider the Church your storm cellar and the rest of the world beset by tornadoes
    – allow your children to participate only in church-related activities
    – remain childlike as adults
    – believe in The Adversary The Boogeyman
    – pay your tithing
    – pay your tithing
    – pay your tithing
    – vacuum under your bed
    – pay your tithing

  122. says

    Remember Mitt Romney’s explanation for beheading Big Bird? “Is the program so critical that it’s worth borrowing money from China to pay for it?”

    The reference to borrowing from China is a dog whistle to the far right. It’s actually an old John Bircher-type boogeyman that plays on fears of a commie takeover.

    This meme is particularly strong where I live, in the Morridor (Mormon corridor), where John Birch Society meetings are regularly held. (They start the meetings with prayer, Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, sometimes singing of patriotic songs, and often a mission statement taken almost directly from “Believe, Obey, and Endure” mormonish guidelines.)

    There’s just one tiny little problem with the “borrowing from China” zinger: it’s not accurate.

    …The current U.S. budget is about $3.6 trillion, with a deficit of about $1.2 trillion.

    So any government program is roughly two-thirds supported by tax revenue and one-third supported by borrowing.

    … hardly any new U.S. debt is “borrowed from China”; in fact, China has reduced its holdings of U.S. bonds from $1.314 trillion in mid-2011 to $1.169 trillion in mid-2012.

    It’s not that hard to find out that China holds less that 10 percent of U.S. debt, has been decreasing its holdings lately, and therefore we are not “borrowing from China” anymore.

    It’s difficult to find anyone in the media calling Romney on this lie.

    Here’s a CNN source that says China holds about 8% of US debt: Who owns America? Hint: It’s not China.

  123. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    Joe, I’m not sure what you mean by “a big cross-country move in the USA”. My furthest was from Seattle to south Missouri, but that was back when I’d throw out everything that I couldn’t stuff into/onto my vehicle. (I took the back seat out of two different cars because I’d used them to move more often than I’d carried passengers.) Nowadays it takes me many trips, and I’ve not moved further than the next county.

    So I’ve no experience on hiring moving vans or companies, but I’ve returned something my sister used. It was a damn big box/flimsy storage building, which was strapped to a trailer, and came from U-Haul. They trailered it to her old house, she filled it up, they took it away, put the box in a big truck to here, put it on another trailer and we towed it, emptied it, and towed it back.

    Which is just to say that you can rent/hire just about anything. You can also run into trouble with the locals if you leave any storage/moving container out of your sight for long.

    It all depends on how much help, money, time and stuff you have. I’d take the opportunity to reduce inventory, then enlist all the friends/family/free help you can get.

    But then, I’m the guy who has plastic storage bins stacked up in every room of the house, and has to get something out of one on a daily basis. (BTW, a tall plastic bin makes a great cat litter box, and a secure lid for one is nothing to be sneezed at.)

  124. says

    Best political debate? Jon Stewart vs. Bill O’Reilly.

    The Daily Beast reviewed the debate and posted video of the best moments.

    Stewart took a shot at Fox’s viewership. “I think any time you run an organization where more people believe the president is a Muslim than believe in evolution, that’s a problem.”

  125. says

    Joe, I’ve moved many times, but only across most of the USA once. I found that the U-Haul rental trucks were a far better way to go than the U-Haul trailers. My advice is to rent a truck.

  126. says


    I have a house full of stuff, so even reducing “inventory” is still going to require something large enough for lots of furniture. If we use a shipping container, we’re going to have same-day deliver and pick-up… I’m not leaving my stuff outside for the neighborhood to pick through as soon as I turn my back. It should take no more than 2-3 hours to load up a trailer if I have everything packed and staged by the front door.

  127. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    Joe, that sounds like good planning.

    In my experience, driving a truck is easier than pulling a trailer behind a car, especially if the car isn’t made for towing.

    I remember that U-Haul charges a lot less for a truck if you bring it back to where you got it. I’d look at the numbers on driving a slightly-smaller truck there and back again, then driving your own car there with the compact stuff—as opposed to renting a huge truck and a towing dolley to drag your car, for one way.

  128. says


    I’m travelling somewhere upwards of 1800 miles. Back and forth and back again ain’t gonna work. :)

    I’ve been emailing back and forth with my wife, and the current plan looks like we’re going to go with a shipping container dropped off in front of our house, loaded up, and then picked up and driven for us. My wife is going to rent a van for the pets, and I’m going to drive my car. Or maybe I’ll drive the van and go nonstop for 30 hours so the pets aren’t too inconvenienced, but I’m not exactly sure yet.

  129. says

    What’s the difference between the trailers and the trucks that makes the truck better?

    The trucks give you a sturdier box in which to place your belongings, better tie-downs too. They are easier to back up than a trailer. Some of the trucks come with a lift gate, and/or ramps that make it much easier to load heavy items.

    Back to the dominant cultural event in the Morridor:

    And now to give everyone the chance to suffer just a taste of the mormon General Conference. This is Ann M. Gibb, Second Counselor Young Women General Presidency, and the only woman to speak during the whole shebang. Link to video, Prozac smiling weirdo dissolves into tears at about 10:00 thanks to the “enabling power of the atonement,” brought on by God taking the life of young women while they are in college. “Humility,” “submission,” and “obedience” are repeated.

    So, why choose the woman as your taste of mormon GC? Because the men have pressured her into being an even worse speaker than they are. This is the true horror. About 11 minutes of horror.

    Boyd K. Packer made a speech, but I didn’t hear most of what he said because the whole episode was more like a slasher film in which the audience is just waiting for the actor to keel over.

  130. says

    And …. [sigh] yet another Romney lie from the debate bites the dust.

    Mitt Romney claimed that “half” of the green firms Obama invested “have gone out of business” and noted that “a number of them happened to be owned by people who were contributors to your campaigns.”

    …only a tiny percentage of firms that received grants or loans from the Recovery Act have actually filed for bankruptcy…..

    Michael Grunwald estimates that less than 1 percent of green firms have gone bad in terms of dollar value …

    $90 billion was given out over several years and included loans, loan guarantees and grants through the American Recovery Act. $23 billion of the $90 billion went toward “clean coal,” energy-efficiency upgrades, updating the electricity grid and environmental clean-up, largely for old nuclear weapons sites.

    How is the Romney campaign explaining this? Mitt didn’t mean to say what he said.

    More coverage of this issue:

    The Bloomberg Government analysis of the Department of Energy’s 1705 loan guarantee program found that 87 percent of the portfolio is low-risk and that even if all 10 of the higher risk projects defaulted, we’d still have nearly half a billion dollars left in the fund set aside by Congress to cover losses….

    The Associated Press said recently approved loan guarantees “could cost taxpayers as much as $6 billion” without giving any indication that that would only be the case in the unlikely event that all those guaranteed loans defaulted in full. USA Today said that two loan guarantees “face questions similar to those of Solyndra,” downplaying the fact that they had “agreements with utilities to buy their energy.” The Washington Post ran a headline saying “Investors, federal officials: Energy Department was careless with taxpayer money,” The New York Times focused on the risk of the program, The Los Angeles Times suggested the Administration was a “lax overseer of taxpayer dollars,” and The Wall Street Journal reported criticism that the program was a “waste of taxpayer dollars.” None of these articles mentioned that the Congress had anticipated that some of the loans would go into default, and set aside money to cover those losses.

    So, 87% of the 1705 loan guarantees went to power generation projects, and not to manufacturing projects like Solyndra. These projects have almost no risk of default.

  131. says

    Looking at a company called U-Pack, they park a 17-foot trailer in front of your house, you load it up and they pick it up. They drop if off whenever you ask them to, and if you need it stored for a few weeks/months they do that too. Plus if you don’t fill the trailer, they give you a refund for the extra space.

  132. says

    Lynna, wouldn’t it be easier to just say what Romney got right during the debate? His name, the president’s name, the moderator’s name, he showed up before the debate started and didn’t walk out in the middle, he knows what country he lives in, taxes exist… and not much else.

  133. says

    Those super nice, Christian and mormon conservations reveal their teeth and claws and hate … again:

    A Mexican burrito joint in Denver that turned the Romney campaign down was unhappy to find its in-box stuffed with hate mail. Romney wanted to make a stump speech about tolerance at Rosa Linda’s Mexican Cafe, but the restaurant’s owners, who are Mormon, didn’t want to mix religion or politics with rellenos. Romney went to Chipotle instead, of course, and even though Rosa Linda’s hands out 5,500 free meals on Thanksgiving each year, the restaurant owners’ son says they’ve been receiving death threats and have been accused of racism.

    As stated in the article, when we were contacted by the campaign of candidate Romney on August 6th, by a former Mormon missionary, that he would like to bring the candidate here, NOT TO EAT but; it was presented to us that he wanted to do a political stump here. Talk about our small business and how because we share our religious views with the candidate and are Latinos it would be great for him to do a campaign stop. We did say NO because we are not Republicans, nor are we Democrats. We will welcome any sitting President of the United States. But we did not want to be a campaign stopping place….

  134. Patricia, OM says

    Joe – Ask them why they will give you a refund for the unused space? Is it because they are going to use it to put someone else’s stuff in with your stuff? Is your stuff going to make stops along the way?

    I’m very suspicious of “bed buggers” moving companies because my husband was a long haul truck driver for over 20 years, and I’ve heard bed buggers telling stories in truck stops that would curl your toenails!

  135. says


    According to their website they do commercial shipping with the extra space, not household shipping. Decent reviews on Yelp and other sites. Although I suppose I could reject the refund and just keep the whole truck to myself, right?

  136. Portia says

    We did say NO because we are not Republicans, nor are we Democrats. We will welcome any sitting President of the United States. But we did not want to be a campaign stopping place….

    Good for them for weathering the storm of “Mormon love and kindness.” That religion contains so many bullies it’s a wonder that they don’t share a broader cultural reputation like Scientologists do.

    I had leftover kale and I put it in a banana smoothie and I am very pleased. :)

  137. carlie says

    Or maybe I’ll drive the van and go nonstop for 30 hours so the pets aren’t too inconvenienced, but I’m not exactly sure yet.

    Oh no you will NOT. Please. Driving is ok, but do not try to go that far in a day, especially if you are the only human in the car. That’s a 2 day drive, minimum. The savings on not staying overnight at a crappy hotel is not worth getting into an accident because you’re so tired. Hell, if money is really that tight, get a few pieces of posterboard for 50 cents each so you can block the windows and sleep in the car at pre-determined rest stops. Seriously. I do a 20 hour one-way drive at least once a year, and it took a couple of close calls to realize it just isn’t worth it to not sleep at some point. Just don’t fuck around with that sort of thing.

    Moving advice – start packing now. There’s a ton of stuff you don’t actually use and wouldn’t miss for a month or so. Label the boxes well.

  138. Portia says

    Are you skeptical Joe? :) It’s surprisingly delicious. The kale gets blended so tiny that the only evidence of it is the fun green hue. I added a dash of vanilla too. Om nom.

  139. says


    I figured I could stop for naps, but unpacking the cats and packing them back up for three days and two nights seems… I can’t decide if it is worse to get them there as fast as physically possible, or try to get four cats and a dog in a hotel room twice.

  140. says

    More from the mormon General Conference being held this weekend — this excerpt refers to the mormon apostles having decided to send young men into the mission field at age 18 instead of 19:

    Elder Nelson said 18-year-old missionaries are “sweeter, purer, smarter.”

  141. says

    Oh, and I’m starting packing on Wednesday. I’ve already taken apart the bed in the guest bedroom and packed up the linens. I’m doing laundry now and leaving all of it downstairs… I have a week’s worth of clothing I’m washing, and I’ll pack everything else when I have the money for boxes. This is actually one of those cases where it works that my wife isn’t here right now, because I can more easily close off entire sections of the house once I’ve packed and cleaned. Simple for me, not so simple with a “normal” person with my wife sharing the space. I don’t have any problem taking apart both beds, moving them downstairs, and then sleeping on the couch for a week.

    Portia, I guess it depends how much kale? I’m doing that weird “wet working my mouth like a dog tasting something” thing, and trying to imagine how the flavors would combine. It is the combination that seems odd, I like the flavors individually.

  142. Patricia, OM says

    Commercial shipping could be anything from deadly chemicals to crates of paper clips. Just trying to give you a heads up, but sounds like you’re checking them out pretty thoroughly.

    Last year we moved Marvin’s two bed, one bath house contents in one large U-Haul truck. The three car garage FULL went into a second large U-Haul. The garage got shoved into a huge storage unit, and about half the household contents, AND a Harley/two seater sidecar into another huge storage unit. Young able bodied relatives did the heavy work for pizza and beer, plus $50 bucks each as it took two days.

  143. says

    Yummy dinner tonight. I’m making a cheeseburger, and veggie macaroni salad. CHEESEBURGER! And when I do a burger, I do it up right. On the grill, with bacon and red onion and bacon and portabella mushroom and bacon and pickles and bacon and fancy mustard and bacon and all on a nice bakery roll. And I like a little bacon on the side.

  144. says

    Mormon apostle Dallin Oaks has attracted PZ’s attention in the past for making outrageously ignorant comments. At this weekend’s General Conference, Oaks did not disappoint:

    LDS apostle Dallin H. Oaks urged Mormons and non-Mormons alike Saturday to protect children, decrying abortion, divorce, abuse, cohabitation and single and same-sex parenthood as harmful to their welfare.

    He condemned abuse and neglect and called abortion “a great evil.” He urged parents and caregivers to respond to children who struggle, including with same-sex attraction, with “loving understanding, not bullying or ostracism.”

    He also cautioned that it should be assumed that kids raised by same-sex couples or unwed mothers will be at a disadvantage.

    “Children are also victimized by marriages that do not occur,” Oaks said.

    He denounced divorce. Oaks said Mormon leaders have taught that viewing marriage as a mere contract easily entered into and broken “is an evil meriting severe condemnation,” especially when children suffer as a result…

    From the comments section below the SL Tribune article:

    To those who are lambasting Dallin H. Oaks for saying things that offend you, I have to ask at what point he said anything that was contrary to God’s will? If it is indeed God’s will that same sex marriage should go forward, then where is God’s prophet declaring this? Surely we cannot just assume that same sex marriage is okay just because it is becoming politically correct. I will side with Dallin H. Oaks on this one; the man is called of God and knows what he is talking about and cannot be intimidated …

  145. Portia says

    Re: Cheeseburger…*homer drool*

    Re: Smoothie, the kale flavor doesn’t really show up a whole lot, I think that’s why it works for me.

    Kristinc – Mental note to add ginger next time :)

  146. Portia says

    Elder Nelson said 18-year-old missionaries are “sweeter, purer, smarter.”


    Oh, and as to amount of kale, I put in like half a leaf and 3 bananas. Might add more next time.

  147. Beatrice says

    Kale with fruit in a smoothy? Interesting.
    I’m not much of a fan of kale, but I might try that.

  148. says

    Could you rent a camping car instead of a van to transport the animals? So you could get proper sleep.
    Or have your car driven down by somebody else* while you and boss nurse take turns driving the van?
    *Dunno if that still exists, but some years ago a friend of mine went for a holiday in the States and basically organized his own transportation by driving cars for other people, like wealthy parents sending their darling son his car to college and such.

    What’s kale?

  149. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    If you remember the specific waterfall’s location, I know people in the region who’d be interested.

    Somewhere out west of Deer Creek but I have no idea which drainage. Sorry.

    Elder Nelson said 18-year-old missionaries are “sweeter, purer, smarter.”

    And now, with 3.2 times more BS in every one!

    What’s kale?

    An essential ingredient in potato, sausage and kale soup.

  150. Beatrice says


    Kale is sort of a bit like cabbage (at least my family insisted on exchanging them in dishes), except that it doesn’t taste very good.

  151. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says


    Picture a cross between spinach and cabbage. The leaves are dark green with very thick stems (remove those as much as you can). Raw, it is crunchy, strong and a tiny bit bitter. Cooked, it becomes sweet but retains the very strong flavour. Excellent sauted with olive oil, a little bacon and some salt. Also very good steamed and served with some cider vinegar.

    And I apologize for my initial response. It was so easy I couldn’t resist. Sorry.

  152. pixelfish says

    @Lynna: Somebody on Twitter was pointing out that only few years back the big conference push on missionaries was about attracting Quality over Quantity. *snerk* But now suddenly it’s all about the Lord needing great numbers for his army and work and so on.

    And I need to vent here because my chock-full-of-Mormons Facebook is all exultant and excited about the new changes. Which to be fair to them, is actually the most exciting thing the church HAS done in a while. But seeing them get all excited over this conference as extra inspiring is rather twitch-inducing. Specially as they ARE ALL responding to the dog whistle to vote for Romney, and talking about how this world is getting worse and worse and it’s the end times, just as prophesied.

    (Side note: The whole storm terminology thing is so irritating to me. Complaining about my rights to medical technology and gay people getting married and comparing it to a storm—so much ARGH. It’s like complaining about the weather in Juneau when you live in Sandy Eggo.)

  153. Ogvorbis: broken and cynical says

    Og, don’t forget tossed in olive oil and oven-roasted. Mmmmm.

    Oh, yeah. With some whole peeled garlic cloves and sliced onions. Comes out so nice and sweet.

    Ahhh, Grünkohl!

    Sounds like a nasty head cold coming on. Take care of yourself.

  154. mepmep09 says

    FYI/FWIW, for those who follow this sort of thing, I just heard Jacques Berlinerblau,* advocate of secularism – BUT NOT ATHEISM, NO-NO-NO! – being interviewed on (Sr.) Maureen Fielder‘s Interfaith Voices radio program (link). PZ discussed this guy last month, and a few others at FTB have as well (also, Berlinerblau wrote a book, natch). During the interview he did devote a few sentences to addressing Gnu Atheism, though with no trace of adoration (PZ addressed that in his September post).

    *That guy’s name is one of the most Frenchiest-Germaniest combined moniker I’ve seen; then again, I don’t get out much, so that may not be worthy of note…

  155. says

    pixelfish @199

    And I need to vent here because my chock-full-of-Mormons Facebook is all exultant and excited about the new changes.

    Ah, I know all too well what you mean. I’m not experiencing the Facebook deluge myself since I defriended all but a few mormon friends long ago, but many of my ex-mormon friends are avoiding their Facebook pages this weekend thanks to the plague of hyped up church locusts. Says something about crowd mentality, I guess, as well about the ability of church-broke mormons to maintain their gullibility no matter what:,664732

    I seriously consider[ed] singing up for anger management therapy. Since the old farts anounced that they will now start brainwashing young people and training them as salesmen (and women) at even younger age, my facebook feed is overflowing with statements like “I am so gratefull for this wonderfull blessing from our HF [Heavenly Father], now my brother/sister/ … won’t have to lose that year in college and can go preach our beloved gospel and call himself elder at the age of 18, oh how freaking blessed we are to be alive to witness such a revelation.” – well I got a little creative, but you know what I mean.

    How do they not see the real reason for this “revelation” – TSCC [The So-Called Church] needs more missionaries, and needs them before they start to think for themselves. But I don’t want to start fighting with everyone who posts that kind of mental vomit, I did it with one and it was exhausting, as one may expect.

  156. says


    It took me a minute to figure out what you meant by “camping car” but once I did… PERFECT!!! I could probably tow my car behind one, and most of the extra cost would be saved on not having to get a hotel room and the gas for my car, plus way more convenience. I’m totally going to look into it, THANK YOU!

  157. Tony •Prom King of Sunnydale High• says

    Crudely Wrott:

    You are an unending source of information and perspective. I am certainly not alone in finding your posts of great value.

    Hear, hear!
    I enjoy reading Lynna’s posts as well.



    Freshly baked croissants

    A fresh croissant with a light touch of butter is so delicious!

  158. says

    More on ex-mormons suffering through Facebook manifestations of mass hysteria this weekend as their mormon friends trumpet their devotion:

    Facebook is a giant, “Let me show everyone how devout I am” fest.

    Advice from Aussie ex-mormon:

    Tell them you thought GC [General Conference] looks like a scene from Night of the Living Dead.,664684

    Yes, it does look like Night of the Living Dead:

  159. Ichthyic says

    we’re talking about you in the Molly thread, Lynna.


    I just wanted to repeat what I said there:

    I have a tremendous appreciation for all the work you have done over the years keeping us notified of the whacky world of Mormonism.

    I’ve used things you’ve posted so many times in reference to mormon apologists all over the web, I would give you a special award myself if I could.

    your value simply cannot be overestimated.

  160. says

    (Side note: The whole storm terminology thing is so irritating to me. Complaining about my rights to medical technology and gay people getting married and comparing it to a storm—so much ARGH. It’s like complaining about the weather in Juneau when you live in Sandy Eggo.)

    I love the storm terminology. It’s classic poorly chosen symbolism.

    After all, what do you do for a storm? Weather it. You can’t stop it, you can’t change it’s course, you just have to hunker down and weather it. It is an inevitability. I love that they have chosen to grant that symbolism to gay rights and progressiveness. It’s a subconscious admission that they’re trying to change the course of a river.

  161. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    Kale? My sister dipped leaves in soy, sesame and garlic, I think, and dehydrated them. It made nice crunchy snacks. She gave me a big bag, but my cat got to it first.

    Joe, I like the van idea. I suggest that each pet have a collar with ID, a leash and a carrier/cage. A helper would be nice, but if you have to stop more often, you’ll be getting a stretch and a walk, yourself. A storage bin with a lid makes a litter box. I’d not let more than two pets out of the carriers while driving, but they will all want to see and hear you.

    Hotel rooms that take pets are possible, but it’s a schlep. I’ve slept in a van with pets a few times. A pillow, a pad, and a blanket, of course (a plastic bottle is handy, too). Overnight parking can be a challenge, but interstate rest areas don’t mind if you are inside the vehicle, and any big store lot will work—if you want quiet, find a state park or a commercial campground, and you might get a shower (truckstops sell showers, too).

    Good luck to all.

  162. dianne says

    A fresh croissant with a light touch of butter is so delicious!

    I agree, but for the very best croissants, the butter is redundant.

  163. Patricia, OM says

    Had to go to the store. Sangria supply was low. o.O

    Kale is much sweeter after it has been frosted. Usually I stir fry mine with garlic, olive oil and soy sauce. It’s also really good chopped up in salads with some oranges or fruit flavors added.

  164. Ichthyic says

    just curious about something that sparked my interest a moment ago, when I suddenly realized I really couldn’t supply a good definition of what “fascism” means.

    Ing and I were batting it around a bit in another thread, but it’s really kinda OT there, so I bring it here instead.

    off the top of people’s heads, what is the first definition of “fascism” that comes to mind?

    just curious.

  165. says

    Failed mine the first time.
    Still think I make a pretty decent driver nowadays (the only accident I ever had was when the car drove down the street without me)

    Hope this works out

    Jam and farmer’s cheese…

    Who made it haöf past 12 again?
    But I had fun, I’m making a Hootie (pun intended)

  166. Hekuni Cat, MQG says


    Hops (homegrown), lavender and white sage.

    Thank you!

    Please give Vasco gentle hugs and pets for me.

    And I hope your toe isn’t causing you too much pain.


    he’s ordered another angiogram for Friday 12th October to find out how bad it is.

    I hope all goes well and you get proper treatment for your condition. *hugs*

    Krasnaya Koshka – *hugs*


    Life be well and truly celebrated here and now, in my little corner of the world. I invite you, one and all, wherever you are, whatever your circumstances, to share in that joy of being alive.

    Thank you for sharing this wonderful story – and a belated Happy Birthday to your wife.

  167. says

    My going definition from the top of my head is a state noted by extreme nationalism and authoritative control of the government with privileges and punishments for obedience and disobedience to the state; maintained by heavy use of propaganda, selective law enforcement, militarization, violence, and populism/faux populism. Different from just authoritarianism in that it is largely a phenomena of democratic states that arises internally.

    I’d argue that from my definition all fascist states are dictatorships (or some equivalent but being ruled by a committee/party rather than individual, probably still would have a figure head) but also faux democracies. They run on the idea that the party/dear leader is the voice/hands of some nebulous idea of teh people

  168. carlie says

    Overnight parking can be a challenge, but interstate rest areas don’t mind if you are inside the vehicle, and any big store lot will work—if you want quiet, find a state park or a commercial campground, and you might get a shower (truckstops sell showers, too).

    All good ideas. I also read once (don’t know how well it would work), that if you can’t find any of those places (WalMarts all let you park and sleep in their lots), to find the nearest police station, tell them you’re too tired to drive safely and ask them where you can park and sleep for a few hours. That way you at least don’t get ticketed for loitering or being a nuisance or whatever.

  169. says

    @Josh, my experience in Paris and Quebec alike is that *trying* to speak French gets you a long way. A few phrases of the hello, goodbye, please, excuse me and thank you variety are very helpful. And don’t worry about if you have a horrible accent; it’s always better to try than not. This applies to all countries I’ve travelled in, actually, but the French were notable for being quite mean if you didn’t try.

    @gillyc – the Communist Manifesto is a very easy read. And you can’t beat getting it from the horse’s mouth.

    @Ichthyic: Fascism = nationalistic totalitarian capitalism. The ultra-nationalism plus intertwining of industry/business and state is what makes it Fascist, rather than some other form of totalitarian despotism.

    @Joe, when some of my family moved Sydney to Cairns (a similar distance), they found the best moving deal was one where they filled a shipping container, which was then loaded onto a train in Sydney and offloaded in Cairns. They drove their cars themselves, stopping a couple of nights along the way, but they could also have shipped them by rail if they’d wanted. Do NOT drive in one hit. There’s a road safety slogan here: “Drowsy Drivers Die”. No shit.

    And kale is yummy. I like the Tuscan style, with long leaves, similar to silverbeet/swiss chard but smaller and finer. Have you tried the kale chips yet? Very light olive oil coat, shake of sea salt, roast leaves until crisp (about 5-10 minutes.) ZOMG delicious. A teaspoon of olive oil is enough for a bunch; I put it in a plastic bag and smooth the leaves about to coat.

  170. says

    Well… any sort of recreational vehicle is out. The rental is almost triple what I’d pay for a van. Can still maybe sleep in the van to save a few bucks though.

  171. Patricia, OM says

    Have any of you been to one of these atheist conventions before? Naughty Marvin doesn’t want to wear a jacket and tie, but the thing is being held at the Portland Hilton for crying out loud. That has to mean swank of some level (highest?). I would hate for him to go and be mad through the whole dinner. Is casual OK?

    Not much point in me donning a formal, my great niece (age 5) told me this morning I look like “The Gnome Wife” in her story book. *pouts*

    Would it be prudent to call the Hilton? Sheesh.

  172. Ichthyic says

    close enough?

    I’m not judging the answers, just curious as to what they are.

    We see terms like “liberal” and “fascist” tossed around and redefined endlessly in media (like Feaux News, as mentioned by Ing), so it got me curious as to what people generally conceive the definitions are of these things now.

  173. says

    Patricia, the Hilton isn’t what it used to be. Hell, they let ME stay there!:)

    My advice would be to contact the event organizers rather than the hotel itself.

  174. Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper says

    “In fascism, the people are for the state. In democracy, the state is for the people.” I forget where I read something like that.

    It’s like those little bundles of sticks in the axe handles. Each individual is important only for what he contributes to the whole. The axe handle is the thing = the state is the priority.

    In a democracy, the people have banded together to protect themselves/each other. The purpose of the state is the welfare of the people.

    Or, something I just made up: Fascism is like a war ship, where the crew serves the vessel. Democracy is like a cruise ship, where the vessel serves the people.

  175. Ichthyic says

    …consider it just a selfish request for information. I think I get started thinking about this stuff whenever I read more of Richard Evans’ documentation of the history of europe and germany during the 1st half of the last century.

    I keep seeing parallels that concern me.

  176. Patricia, OM says

    Joe – That’s a good idea. I’ll call FFRF in the morning. It’s always interesting to call there the person that answers sounds like they expect to get cussed out, but as soon as you identify yourself as a member the poor soul is so relieved you can almost feel the tension evaporate.

  177. Ichthyic says

    I used to get that when there is a bad ad in rotation (has some broken scripting in it), which is why I now regularly use adblock.

    since then, no, haven’t had that particular problem.

  178. A. R says

    I was just in a chip shop getting dinner, which reminded me of these. Thought I would post that for the benefit of you pea insurgents.

  179. Ichthyic says

    “… until they form a thick green lumpy soup”

    could they have possibly made it sound any less appealing?

    I’m sure it actually does taste just fine (for those that actually like peas, like myself), but really… change the description already.

  180. Portia says

    Even though I’ve never seen it described less appealingly, it still makes me want pea soup : )

  181. Ichthyic says

    btw, buffybot says my getting my residence is NZ is well timed, as she hasn’t caught me calling chips “fries” for over 6 months now.

    I think I’ve acclimatized to the lingo.

  182. A. R says

    Ing: Nope, killfile is functioning well, adblock is functioning, but Zotero is a bi wonky at the moment for me.

  183. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Yesterday was fun! We found about 30 species of herps, including a Siren species that has yet to be named and described!

    I suppose “Siren soullesscuntidae” is out of the question?

  184. Pteryxx says

    (random) via BB, the Oatmeal’s fundraiser for the Tesla Museum was successful:

    The Oatmeal’s campaign to raise funds to preserve and develop the 16 acre plot in Wardenclyffe, Long Island where Nikola Tesla’s lab once stood has concluded successfully. The fundraiser aimed to raise $850,000 and ended up with $1.4 million, with donations from over 100 countries.

    Referenced article:


  185. Ichthyic says

    ad block is on…killfile is also not working


    killfile still uses greasemonkey yes?

    check your greasemonkey settings?

  186. Ichthyic says

    …I just switched over to a new machine running windows 7 a couple weeks back, and haven’t gotten killfile running again myself.

  187. Tony •Prom King of Sunnydale High• says


    Anyone else having an issue that everything seems to load but never STOP loading?

    My laptop is currently experiencing problems similar to that. It takes forever to load pages and I frequently get timed out messages as well as the script is taking too long to load messages. I also have problems playing videos. The playback never stops buffering, so I can’t watch anything most of the time. I’ve followed the tips Windows provides, T has looked at my laptop (in the military, she worked on computers a bit), and the ever knowledgeable Richard has also been helpful. All of that is to no avail. I don’t have any malware or viruses either.
    I’m glad T is letting me use her spare Macbook until a solution presents itself. Probably in the form of monetary expenditure on my part, which is looking to be NO time soon. I have a job and have finally started working, but we get paid every two weeks-which is different than what I’m accustomed to. I can’t work on the laptop until I get important bills paid for (such as the utilities and water bill which are likely to get shut off before I get my first paycheck..sigh).

  188. Tony •Prom King of Sunnydale High• says

    A.R. @239:
    That’s just wrong.
    Mashed peas…UN-nom nom.
    You know the saying “bacon makes everything better”? Even bacon is powerless before the power of the Pea.

  189. cicely says

    What Crudely Wrott said @136

    Speaking of leaving, has anyone done a big cross-country move in the USA?

    Two mediumish ones; western OK to KC; KC to near-Detroit. Then, near-Detroit to Springfield MO. With tons of stuff. All hail U-Haul and their wonderful vans! So very much better than a flat-bed with no sides!

    If you’re going to be going in convoy, I suggest picking up a set of walky-talkies. That way, when you get separated (say, for instance, someone gets off at the wrong exit) you have a better chance to regroup.

    What’s the difference between the trailers and the trucks that makes the truck better?

    Trailers can come unhitched; and once unhitched, the Dark Side of Physics takes over. Happened to my folks, when we moved from CA to NC.

    Kale is sort of a bit like cabbage (at least my family insisted on exchanging them in dishes), except that it doesn’t taste very good.

    But be fair—neither does cabbage.

    Though I’ve never tried cooked kale. May have to give it a go.

    *averting eyes from mentions of the Evil Vegetable*
    *and also from the peas*

  190. Tigger_the_Wing says

    Peas = deliciousness
    Mushy peas = disgustingness

    I also dislike loathe tea (except I can tolerate green tea with a Chinese or Thai meal), particularly the way the English serve tea, with milk and sugar. And I cannot cook Yorkshire pudding to save my life. (The less said about tripe the better).

    My mother, a Yorkshirewoman, accuses me of being UnBritish. =^_^=

  191. says

    I still don’t have Kill or hush. Rebooted Firefox, disabled and then re-enabled killfile in Greasemonkey, have even had two killfile updates to Greasemonkey in the last two or three days and still no joy.

    Misterc, who is usually my Computer Stuff Farmboy, has zero experience with Greasemonkey so he is no help at all.

  192. Tony •Prom King of Sunnydale High• says

    I have now.
    I’m not sure if I should thank you for that or not :)


    I recall dining at a buffet* as a child. I somehow had kale on my plate (IIRC, my parents told me what it was). I tried to eat it, but the taste was bitter and bland at the same time. Of course that was raw kale, and I’ve since heard it can often taste better when cooked, but I’ve not tried to eat it since I was a kid.

    *How do Pharygulites feel about buffets? I’ve encountered many people who refuse to dine at buffets. The usual cited reasons are not wanting to eat somewhere that other people could have touched the food (or sneezed on). When I mention that many buffets have the glass sneeze guards (I’m not certain that’s what they’re for, but they serve that function quite well) or that people are allowed to touch the food (I’ve yet to go to a buffet and see anyone grab food with their hands-even children), I get funny looks (like I said something wrong).
    Personally I like them. They’re often affordable when you’re on a budget and usually have a variety of foods to appeal to a wide range of tastes.

  193. strange gods before me ॐ says

    I haven’t had time to try to figure out your killfile issue, kristinc. Busy time of year for me. I haven’t forgotten, though.

    Anyone else having an issue that everything seems to load but never STOP loading?

    Not right now, but for that sort of thing I recommend NoScript and RequestPolicy.

  194. Tony •Prom King of Sunnydale High• says

    I recently found out that tripe is an ingredient added to many smoked sausages. I was briefly grossed out by that, which was odd given that I’ve never actually *tried* tripe. I’ve seen it at the supermarket (why are they *super* markets, rather than simply markets?) and yes, tripe *looks* yuck. Of course, many kinds of food look unappealing prior to cooking.

  195. A. R says

    Buffets: I tend to avoid buffets, if only because of my not knowing how long any particular food item has sat on the cart. Weddings where buffet service is used are an exception, as given the time-dependent nature of the event, any food item is not likely to have sat out for a particularly long stretch of time. (Yes, I have thought about this before.)

  196. says

    No worries, sgbm! I regard it as more puzzling than enraging or even frustrating. I seem to be the only one with this issue so I question whether it’s even solvable from your end *shrug*

  197. Amblebury says

    SGBM, are there equivalents for Chrome?

    (I understand you’re busy, you needn’t answer.)

  198. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Icthyic: this blog has a somewhat horrible search function, as I recall, but a useful discussion in various articles about the functional definition of fascism. At least one of the “fascist America” articles had a link to a paper in which their definition is expounded.

  199. says

    Good morning
    Since were talking about brassica, tonight it’s red cabbage, just sliced and served with Tzatziki-style sauce. Dunno if it’s actually Turkish or mock-German-Turkish (Our beloved Döner-Kebap doesn’t even exist in that form in Turkey), but I love it. Together with a bit of pan-fried kebap and föat bread.

    *How do Pharygulites feel about buffets?

    Love them. They’re quite popular for celebrations, but I also love Chinese buffets or such because I can try everything.

    re: fasicsm
    The capitalism component is one that often gets overlooked. Fascism is always anti-labour pro-capital

  200. says

    [threadcrupt and then some]

    @ Amblebury

    Opera (Link)
    Firefox (Link)

    (I might be reading you out of context here.)

    @ Caine

    Emergency scritches for Theo. STAT!
    (Theo now has a new virtual sister called Ms Daisy. Spawnphontes has been adopting alley cats again. Oy Vey…)

  201. Amblebury says


    I was thinking more of the equivalent of this:

    Be in control of which cross-site requests are allowed. Improve the privacy of your browsing by not letting other sites know your browsing habits. Secure yourself from Cross-Site Request Forgery (CSRF) and other attacks.

    for Chrome. I doubt I’ll find anything. The insidious tentacles (no offense intended, anyone) of Google reach far. Too far.

    [ominous soundtrack sounds]

  202. says

    @ Amblebury

    You could bribe SGBM with beer. He set up TOR for me remotely.

    Also try “Shift+Ctrl+P” while in Firefox.

    Or try using OpenDNS, which will allow you a whole array of protection methods upstream. (Link here.) You can check youtube for more info, setting up etc. (Sorry, off tor right now – you will have to find videos.)

  203. Tigger_the_Wing says

    Tony, that’s absolutely terrible. It should be only in The Onion or similar. Not actual, you know, news.

  204. Amblebury says

    Thanks muchly, Theophontes. I’ll look into it.

    Yes that’s ominous enough Tony. ;)

    I don’t watch that genre of film. Call me silly, but I find them really, really frightening. Mind you, this is the person who found Finding Nemo scary in (quite a few)parts.

  205. says

    Oh yeh gods, back from weekly grocery shopping.
    I will never, for the love of life understand a system in which buying a glass of applesauce and then, for all I care throwing away the applesauce is cheaper than just buying a glass…
    But I got Swedes, yay. They’re another vegetable that has fallen from grace: It kept millions from starvation during the wars, provided cheap and good nutritiun for poor people during the 50’s and 60’s and afterwards nobody wanted to eat them anymore…
    Fell in love with them in Ireland and brought seeds back. My grandpa was actually quite happy to grow them again. Now it seems as the war-generation slowly dies out they’re making a slow come-back without the stigma attached.

  206. Amblebury says

    Argh – Page Not Found message again, Theophontes.

    Gilliel, I take your swede and raise you a parsnip.

    And goodnight, all.

  207. Tigger_the_Wing says

    Hubby mashes swedes and potatoes together to serve with haggis. Yummy. (Except I now have to forego the haggis.)

    I also like them roasted; every so often, I use the huge lidded roasting dish to cook an assortment of vegetables in the oven, drizzling them with olive oil. Once cooked, they are great re-heated, or added to soups and stews, curries and frittatas.

    A typical assortment would be swedes, carrots, parsnips, turnips, pumpkin, potatoes, sweet potatoes, aubergine (egg plant), marrow or baby marrows (zucchini/courgettes), red onions, capsicums, whole heads of garlic, cauliflower and broccoli.

  208. carlie says

    I’ve encountered many people who refuse to dine at buffets. The usual cited reasons are not wanting to eat somewhere that other people could have touched the food (or sneezed on).

    Like they think people aren’t doing that back in the kitchen at every single restaurant?

  209. says

    Hey guys! This is my last week of work! Eeeeeeeeeeeee!

    *Extends arms, runswaddles around office making airplane noises*

    In other news, I saw Looper yesterday and holy crap, it’s good. Bruce Willis could only make time travel movies for the rest of his career and I’d be fine with that.

  210. Portia says

    I laughed aloud, Audley : ) Yay for you!

    I’ve been invited to join Rotary, and I’m trying to suss out just how religious-influenced it is. (Honestly, I’ll probably join either way, it’s a unique opportunity for networking). They open their meetings with a (sung) prayer, which I can suffer through. But the membership page sounds kinda…culty to me.

    Finding and keeping members
    To keep clubs strong, every Rotarian must share the responsibility of bringing new people into Rotary. Even new members can bring guests to club meetings or invite them to participate in a service project.
    Keeping members involved in Rotary is another responsibility. Fostering strong fellowship and encouraging early participation in service projects are two of the best ways to sustain a club’s membership.

    Is my Cautious-of-Religion meter overcalibrated? What do y’all think? Anyone have Rotary experience?

    Re: Buffets. Sometimes I’m grossed out by how long something may have been sitting there. I had pasta salad off a salad bar last week that was absolutely rancid. So, I guess it depends on my mood. If I’m really hungry and want a lot of food immediately, a buffet is all that will do. There’s a Japanese buffet locally here with huge amounts of fresh sushi in addition to lots of regular buffet food. It’s a really great deal for all-you-can-eat sushi, especially since you can have a few of this roll, a few of that.

  211. blf says

    I think I’m drinking vodka from Kentucky. Is that possible?

    I believe there’s a lot of moonshine from there, so perhaps. What it will be made from is not something on which I care to speculate (this is the Louche after all — there is a commendable lack of standards here…).


    Speaking of beetlesbeatles… The Beatles in charts and infographics.

    I love you for that reference. That’s awesome.

    Sorry, my loche-generator was malfunction. Will do better next time.


    Has anyone else heard about these three Cabinet minsiters in the UK who are trying to get the limit for abortion access lowered?

    Yes, or at least Jeremy Hunt, who is a clewless buffoon I’ve commented-on here in the Louche before. If memory serves me right — my Generalissimo Googel™-Fu is fooed right now — he’s a homeopathetic and other woo-woos supporter.


    I found something that keeps Mr. at the Sunday breakfast table for longer than 5 min. Freshly baked croissants.

    Five minutes? That’s an eternity. I’ve been known to inhale a pair of still-warm croissants in under a minute, and the mildly deranged pengion things I’m loafing…


    Nowadays, I spray the dog in the face with a water bottle.

    Yeah, that’s what I’ve always done, even in the days of the long / big pumps. (For one thing, I tended to have my pump secured with a velco strap, so using it whilst mounted / riding was effectively impossible. Plus it’s doesn’t hurt the dog, but does indeed get it to back off.)

    Also works on pesky long pigs, but more care is needed as they can then get really enraged and even stupider…


    maybe I’ll drive the van and go nonstop for 30 hours

    No. That is neither responsible nor sane. Go for one to one-and-half hours at a time, take a break, and end your day afte c.10 hours later, or as soon as you start feeling tired or showing symptoms of tiredness (yawning, drifting attention, …). Then get a full night’s sleep before resuming (either in a hotel / motel, or a sleeping bag on a quite roadside (but lock your doors!)).

    Only cross-USA move my family ever did was by train — partly because we had a pet — which probably isn’t an option here for multiple reasons. So I’ve no specific advice beyond what others have said — start packing now, yadda yadda, … Except do not fecking drive for so long!

  212. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Portia, I was invited to join Rotary also. The owner of the business we bought was a member and he said “Of course you’ll join.” Flatly, like it was a done deal. I demurred and equivocated every time he brought it up and eventually he stopped asking.

    He’s religious and this town is very Catholic. I suspect that the culture of Rotary here would be heavily influenced by that because everyone that I know is involved is religious. That said, I’ve never seen anything that suggests that they are engaged in any kind of overt religious bias as far as the charity work they do. For instance, Mrs. Fishy spent a year overseas as an exchange student via Rotary and she and her family are most definitely not religious.

    If I was you I’d ask for a list of the what charities and projects they are involved in to see if you can suss out any religious biases in how they apportion their time and money.

  213. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    Well, everyone here in the stem cell institute is going batshit over the Nobel news.

    In other news, I fucking HATE Time Warner. My internet has been down at home all weekend. >:(

  214. says

    @ Amblebury

    Page Not Found message again

    For OpenDNS? That is a little strange. (It should resolve those type of problems – bit of a catch-22.)

    @ Audley Airlines (& teh li’l passenger)


    @ Portia

    Is my Cautious-of-Religion meter overcalibrated? What do y’all think? Anyone have Rotary experience?

    {raises paw}

    My folks are very involved in Rotary and have been for years. My pa, the atheist (though low key) was president last year (it rotates every year). In terms of religiosity, it will most likely reflect the immediate community. It is generally a secular organisation.

    Rotary is quite sociable and easygoing, though joining does more or less imply that you will work towards social goals. This can be hard work, but at the same time very rewarding.

    You get to meet people from all over the world too (as Fossilfisshy indicated), via the exchange programs. The friendships formed often last a lifetime.

    I don’t (at least from my own experiences) see any reason why an atheist shouldn’t enjoy Rotary -it is a very good vehicle for getting involved in eductaion and community development. No gods required.

  215. says

    Hmmmm… would it be too cruel if I towed my car and put the pets in the car to be towed? It is cool weather, and I can leave the windows cracked pretty wide if necessary because the cats will be in carriers. I could save SO MUCH MONEY that way.

  216. Portia says

    Thanks for the tip and very cool that Mrs. Fishy had a good experience. I remembered that the invitee sent me a powerpoint presentation called “2011-2012 in review” which detailed the club’s activities. The list of charitable causes includes blood drives, Red Cross(™?), secular programs for at-risk youth, literacy efforts, area volunteer fire departments, child abuse prevention, and building houses in Guatemala. The closest it gets to religiosity is Boy Scouts of America. I got tired of reading the list, but so far it looks ok to me.

    Thankfully this area is not overly religious. I mean, there is a general expectation that you’re Christian, but it’s not rabidly Catholic or Baptist or anything. So hopefully I don’t get invited to church. Then I will whip out my excellent demurring skills.

    It might be the flower-child homeschooler in me, but all the seemingly gratuitous structure sort of rubs me the wrong way. (“If you miss a meeting you have 2 weeks to make it up!”) But my grandpa is a “charter member” so it’s sort of expected of me. At least the great majority of the dues ($316 out of $360) goes to paying for the food at the weekly breakfast meeting. (7:15am every Tuesday…now that will require willpower…).

  217. Portia says

    Thanks theopontes! I appreciate the reassurance. I do look forward to doing the work for their causes. (Doesn’t hurt that they donate to my fire dept). I’m glad I don’t have a whole lot to worry about with regards to the godbotting :) I think it will be fun to help with the events they have. One of their beneficiary organizations works with victims of domestic violence, which is a cause close to my heart.

  218. blf says

    Thirsty driver? Or an example of DUI(drunk driving)? (Or just tired?) Rallye de France: Petter Solberg crashes into vineyard (video):

    Petter Solberg, a rally driver for the Ford World Rally Team, crashes into a vineyard in the Alsace region of France while taking part in the Rallye de France. After taking out a sizeable chunk of the vineyard, he ends up hitting a telegraph pole which almost wipes out the crowd. Luckily, no one was hurt.

    I particularly like the telegraph pole falling over and going BOOOOM! at the end, complete with sparks / fireball. Hilarious. (Albeit if someone had been hurt it wouldn’t be so funny.) The scenes shot inside the car are pretty good too.

    At it needs now is a Yakety Sax soundtrack.

  219. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Though I don’t use kill hush file, I could be motivated to do so if it was changed to Shut-yo-mouth file.

  220. Portia says


    That sounds ok to me, as long as you make frequent stops. /not a pet expert.

    Just don’t strap them to the top of the car. ;)

    I should add that I only say that about the dues because I am poor :)

  221. chigau (悲しい) says

    I don’t like the idea of putting the critters in the towed car.
    Unless you stop and check on them frequently.

  222. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    How skittish are your animals Joe?

    My labradufus would probably be fine, my husky, not so much.

  223. says

    Yeah, no pets in the towed car. On a sunny day the car could still get hot even with the windows open. Still thinking about driving my own U-Haul truck though. I will save so much money over shipping my stuff and then renting a van for the pets. The cats will be stacked two-high in the back seat of the car, but what can you do?

  224. blf says

    The cats will be stacked two-high in the back seat of the car, but what can you do?


    I don’t know if the mildly deranged penguin gives lessons or not om launching kitties… ‘though she will do many different things for cheese. And MUSHROOMS!

  225. says

    we’re talking about you in the Molly thread, Lynna.

    I don’t want to hear it. Too embarrassing.

    I collate and conclude more than I create.

    But I appreciate the appreciation.

  226. blf says

    I collate and conclude more than I create.

    Mes reding scills is gone downhoo. I reads that as “I copulate and conflate more than I croissant.”

    Fortunately, I failed to comprehend what I first read. It’d be a bit worrying if I mistook you for a croissant…

  227. says

    God, I could murder a croissant right now.

    I can’t thank you enough for your love and support. I’m in the home stretch now and you all have definitely helped keep me grounded.

    In other behbeh news: Just finishing up the last minute arrival prep: bought/installed a car seat (finally!) and called my insurance company to find a pediatrician for DarkFetus (soon to be DarkInfant). Come to find out, not only is my little sister’s (she’s in her 20s now, mind) former pedatrician still practicing, but he’s still in the same office and he accepts my insurance.

    That kind of blew my mind. I wasn’t expecting to come across any docs that I have experience with, let alone one that comes with high praise from my Mom. I think this just got a hell of a lot easier. :)

  228. Richard Austin says


    Any chance you could bribe a friend to share the driving responsibilities? One-way flight isn’t generally that expensive (relative to renting things or such), depending on to where you’re moving.

    I’ve done 700 miles in a single go (well, stopping for gas and bathroom), but that was in my toy and not a van and also mostly on the 5 here in California. But as a SoCal guy, driving is kind of what we do (my first public-road-driving-experience was taking my mom to work and back, downtown, in rush hour).

  229. says

    Yay Audley! Woohoo!

    Richard, I have my wife to help, which is why I was considering the whole “towing the car with the cats in it” thing, and my wife and I could take turns driving. We don’t know anyone else here well enough to ask them to help… part of why we’re moving, we just don’t fit here.

    I can do 650 miles pretty easy. I just figured if I could do 250 more a day I could shave a whole day off the drive.

  230. says

    Oh… and I’m watching “Dexter” and I’m amazed at how much the lead actor looks like my old roommate Bucky. Amazed because I always thought if anyone would be a serial killer, it would be Bucky.

  231. Pteryxx says

    *cheers Audley*

    Joe, with two drivers you should be fine, as long as y’all can sleep in the car as needed and somebody can handle staying awake late at night when the other person isn’t necessarily awake to help poke at them. (And stops, plenty of stops, for the pets’ sake as well. After a while the landscape rushing by can get disorienting, and walking around a stationary rest stop for a while really helps.)

    I’ve done long solo drives, over 2400 miles (with a bit of hotel in that case)… many short breaks for the ground to hold still, and being comfortable enough in the car to get *some* sleep at need, made it possible.

  232. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    theophontes – Ms. Daisy is beautiful!

    Audley – Congratulations! I’d tell you to celebrate, but you obviously have that well in hand. :D

  233. Richard Austin says


    Depends on the roads. I don’t know which direction you’re heading, but if you’re taking something like the 10 across the country (such as coming towards SoCal from Florida), I could see *maybe* 800 being reasonable (mostly because of higher speed limits; that’s still probably 12 hours driving). I’ve driven 12 hours (that was only 400 miles, but it was PCH), but it’s tough and I don’t know that you’d want to do it two days in a row. And that still wouldn’t get you the 1800 in two days.

    And, yes, the extra hour or two makes a huge difference, fatigue-wise. Especially in bad weather, and we’re starting to get to the wet seasons.

  234. says

    Pteryxx, We’re on “two drivers and two vehicles” now. So there’s no good plan. We’re also on “no room for a second driver in either vehicle even if we had one.”

    Crap, this is sucking more and more. I’ve got a month to figure this out though. I also need to start looking for a place to live, which is going to be HARD from 1800 miles away.

  235. mythbri says

    Just catching up on the thread since yesterday, and I have the following (thread-appropriate) rants to make:

    Facebook Mormonocalypse October 2012:

    As Lynna has so thoroughly documented, it was the LDS General Conference this weekend. I didn’t care to watch any of it. But that doesn’t mean that I was free from seeing and hearing about it absolutely EVERYWHERE. Facebook was abuzz with the new mission rules, 99% of them positive. “Yay! Divinely inspired!” “Yay! Finally equal….ish. But not really.” “Yay! There is a living Prophet upon the Earth, get thee to church, heathens!” My eyes were aching by the end of the day, they were rolling so hard.

    There was one comment about the new mission rules that was not positive, and it was from a non-member friend of a friend. She politely expressed her annoyance at all of the intrusive religious posts, reminding people that not everyone that they’re friends with shares their religion or their point of view. She expressed concern over the new mission rules, as she saw them as another way to make it harder for young women to go to college, and get education – characterizing it as a transparent attempt to retain the membership of college-age women (I would be very interested to see the retention records broken down by demographics right now).

    She had several people rage at her for being critical, flounce, un-flounce, re-flounce, and un-friend her. Judging by what Lynna says about the Adversarial Internets, they probably saw that she was acting as an agent of Satan by voicing her concerns in the same way they were voicing their religious fervor. :P

    Government and Green Funding:

    I can’t disclose too much here, but I work as the safety and health coordinator of a semiconductor manufacturing company. The parts we manufacture are used exclusively in solar application, so yes – you could call us a “green technology” company. 90%, if not more, of my co-workers are Republican/Libertarian/Conservative, and it’s driving me fucking nuts. They keep spouting off ridiculous shit about the economy, about Obama, about everything that they see as oppression of their poor little white male selves. It’s completely maddening.

    Anyway, one of their favorite hobbyhorses is Solyndra, the company that “Obama funded” that went out of business. Supposedly it’s this HUGE SCANDAL that PROVES OBAMA CAN’T MANAGE THE ECONOMY and also that CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX USED TO BILK THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MONEY.

    Here’s the punchline. Are you ready for it? Okay. Here it is.

    Our company has government funding.

    Eh? Eh? Hilarious, no? We are a GREEN TECHNOLOGY company with GOVERNMENT FUNDING. OH, IRONY!

    Yeah, these guys’ “principles” end at the lining of their own pockets.

  236. says


    The fun thing about “Dexter” is, you can skip 3-4 seasons and get right back in like you didn’t miss anything! 5 minutes to skim the Wikipedia entry and you’re all set.

  237. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    So, my internet was down all weekend. So, to fill the void in my heart, I went on a Sims marathon.

    Was fun!

    Only, at some point my game picked up a bug. That bug being the “Sims forget to get dressed after bathing” bug. Also, the “the modesty blurring goes away” bug.

    I realized this when I was doing my pan-around-the-house action to check on anyone, and there was my Sim, cheerfully gardening in the nude. And then getting the mail in the nude. And then playing fetch with the SimDog in the nude. And then going to work in the nude.

    The oddest thing? Sims don’t have genitals. Their bodies are vaguely Barbie-and-Ken-esque in that smooth uncanny-valley sort of way.

  238. Patricia, OM says

    Just got off the phone to FFRF – dress for the convention can run from tux to sweat pants. WTF? So I informed her that the motto for Portland is Keep it weird! and she said, oh well keep it weird then.

    That isn’t helpful, I don’t have a wet suit.

  239. Beatrice says


    while you’re here: Give some love to my namesake for me. I’ve been neglecting her lately. Is she doing fine?

  240. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    Joe, I have moved a distance of 1,000 miles (1,032, according to GMaps, and 17,546 according to Apple Maps). I drove.

    Here’s what to do and what not to do:
    Do not attempt to drive all of that in one day. Yes, it is 17 hours according to the navigator. But that should not be within a single day.
    Do stop every 3 to 4 hours if not more frequently to grab a bite to eat, stretch your legs, and rest.
    Do stop every 6 to 8 hours if not more frequently to get a hotel room to SLEEP if you have multiple drivers. If you are the only driver, stop more frequently.

    That 1,000 mile trip? I did it in three days. There were two people to drive. We drove the first 450 miles in one day (this took about 8 hours), then stopped for the night. The next morning, we drove the next 500 miles (this took about 8 hours), then we stopped for the night. The third day, we drove the final stretch (about 90 minutes), then began the process of unloading. Those two eight-hour days of driving with two divers, swapping every 3 or 4? Was pushing it.

  241. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    Also, y’know, animals cannot be kept crated for that long. They will need to be walked and allowed to relieve themselves.

  242. says

    Sounds like the people my dad works with. Needless to say, they’re all about taxes and big government are totally bad, guys!, but none of their jobs would exist without government (defense) contracts. *headdesk!*

    I also had a coworker that was livin’ free or dyin’ while he took advantage of as many government programs as possible– heating assistance, vouchers for high speed internet access*, stuff like that. You see, it’s just different for him, ‘cos he works hard and just can’t get ahead, unlike those lazy poor people who depend on the governemt to give them everything. He also railed against “socialized medicine” while at the same time having no private insurance and literally tens of thousands of dollars of medical debt.

    There’s just no understanding some people

    *It is (was?) a program that NY instituted to help out businesses and the economy in rural counties. The thought was that internet providers wouldn’t improve service in sparsly populated areas without a guaranteed customer base and local business would benefit from actually having reliable access to the ‘tubes. I’m not really sure how well it has worked, though.

  243. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    A cat if crated for too long will soil their crate. And trust me, you do not want to deal with that.
    And for the record, you can in fact take cats for a walk. They make harnesses and leashes (LGT store selling such items) for cats.

  244. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    That isn’t helpful, I don’t have a wet suit.

    That is good, Patricia. I would hate for you to show up wearing two wetsuits at the same time.

  245. Beatrice says


    I never asked you, which Beatrice is the ratlet named for? Considering other names, I somehow doubt it was just because you fancy the name.
    (you’ll get virtual chocolate&coffee cake if it’s for Much Ado About Nothing Beatrice)

  246. says

    Improbable Joe:
    My parents moved from Idaho to New York with three cats (they were caravaning, too)– would you like me to ask my mom how they handled it?

    Also, Esteleth is correct. For years, my job consisted of me being on the road for 8 to 10 hours a day and still much more than 11 or 12 destroys me. Don’t push yourself, ‘cos it’ll just lead to an accident.

  247. says


    Just so you understand, I’m NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS. I have four cats who have never been outside or on a leash. If I lose one of them opening the crate at a rest stop, that’s a million times worse than them being inconvenienced or uncomfortable for a few hours a day for a couple of days. I drove three of these cats 12 hours in one day last year, to get to this fucking hellhole. Other than being whining complainers the whole day, they were fine. A little food and fresh water ever couple of hours, and I just grabbed out the poop and changed their blankets when they got soiled.

    But since we’re going to need at least three days anyways, I’m thinking we’re going to stretch it out to four or even five days. If we drive 5 days, we can do six hours of driving with an hour worth of stops, and then plenty of time running loose in a hotel room.

  248. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    Okay, fair enough. I hope you don’t think I’m nagging.

    I think doing it in 5 days sounds like it could work well.

  249. mythbri says


    Yeah, that’s pretty much how my co-workers are. The cognitive dissonance is very much audible, as we all work in a small cubicle farm. Occasionally I fantasize about just shouting random, witty rebuttals to the stupid political stuff they talk about (like, “THAT’S HYPOCRITICAL BULLSHIT!”), but I have to work with these people.

    I’m the only feminist godless liberal among the bunch. So lonely! ;)

  250. says


    I appreciate that you want my cats to be taken care of. Me too! But money… we don’t have any clue how much we’ll be able to allot for the move. We’re going to do the best we can, but sometimes that’s not the ideal. Ideally, we’d have $10,000-15,000 for the move and we could spend $3000 on an RV and $3000 on moving our stuff. As it is, we might only have $3000 or less to move everything. That means caravan and things being tight and packed, and two extra days on the road means two more nights in hotel rooms, which stretches the budget even more.

  251. Patricia, OM says

    Janine – Thanks, my wardrobe dollars are going to drop to almost nothing, now that all I need is a blue skirt, white blouse and red pointed hat. *SNORT*

    Improbable Joe – There isn’t anyone I can ask. We two are the only atheists in Wasco County.

  252. says


    I never asked you, which Beatrice is the ratlet named for? Considering other names, I somehow doubt it was just because you fancy the name.
    (you’ll get virtual chocolate&coffee cake if it’s for Much Ado About Nothing Beatrice)

    Two Beatrices – Shakespeare’s and you. ♥

  253. Nutmeg says

    The longest drive I’ve done was 1252km (778 miles) in one day. We did that with two drivers, and we only stopped to use the washroom, buy gas, and eat very quickly. It took 13 hours. I didn’t feel like we were pushing it, but we were driving on divided highway across the Prairies in summer, so conditions were pretty ideal. I could have gone another couple of hours if necessary, but it wouldn’t have been pleasant.

    I would not want to have to move long distances with pets, and especially not in a hurry. Good luck, Joe.

  254. Pteryxx says

    I *have* driven 16 hours in a single day, solo, but with no pets and I wouldn’t recommend it. Heck, I wouldn’t dare try it again NOW.

    Joe, might research pet-friendly hotels along the route *now*… and price them. Some of them have 1 or 2 pet limits and some charge pet fees ranging from token to exorbitant. There’s a ton of internet info out there, sorry I’m not more help atm.

    Other news – Natalie Reed’s back and no longer homeless:

    She could use donations, folks.

  255. says



    I mean, one suit is unusual enough but what the hell. Not my thing, but not my place to judge if he’s not hurting anyone. The second suit though? Just seems like overkill.


    I thought maybe you could email someone who has attended a FFRF event, go on Twitter or Facebook, something like that?

  256. says


    OR… we just don’t tell them we have 4 cats. Have to tell them about the dog, of course. My wife has already started looking, so I’ll assume she has that part covered. :)

  257. Patricia, OM says

    Oh, thanks! I ♥ it.

    Joe – No facebook or twitter for me. The two wet suits thing is from a year or so ago when a fundie preacher got caught in a compromising situation which also involved multiple dildos… you know, typical convention wear! :D

  258. trinioler says

    You know what? That has to be the best part of being a politician, the sheer number of babies you get to hold and kiss. So adorbs.

  259. says

    Salon’s Joan Walsh weighs in on Romney’s foreign policy speech:

    Mitt Romney’s hailed foreign policy speech combined magical thinking and mendacity, with promises or threats to maintain, restore, escalate or commence military involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Iran, at minimum. Speaking at the Virginia Military Institute, Romney had to have his audience of cadets wondering how many wars he’d commit them to if elected.

    CEO Mitt also seemed to think he can order other countries around, insisting he would get our European allies to spend more on defense, complaining only 3 of 28 NATO nations spend what they are committed to on the military. Good luck with that. Mitt’s magical thinking was also in evidence as he promised to counter Iran’s military support for Syria’s Assad with…something. “It is essential that we develop influence with those forces in Syria that will one day lead a country that sits at the heart of the Middle East,” he insisted, sounding a little Palinesque….

    Yep, that’s Mitt. His message is, “Do what I tell you to do.” He wants to be President of the USA so that he can run the biggest business of all, planet earth.

  260. Pteryxx says

    Yep, that’s Mitt. His message is, “Do what I tell you to do.” He wants to be President of the USA so that he can run the biggest business of all, planet earth.

    And then he can squeeze all the profit out of it, abandon it and move on to the next one!

  261. Patricia, OM says

    Just got my flu shot, yay! While I was waiting of course the usual jackass had to start in to tell everyone within shouting distance how stoopid it is to get a flu shot. EVERYONE KNOWS you get the flu from flu shots!!! You can’t reason with flu shot fools. *snort*

  262. Patricia, OM says

    Audley – Yay, when I send more knitting you can be sure it’s cootie free. The convention knitting is decided on, Mr. Darkheart’s egghead. I have it cast on and packed. It’s the only thing packed… :D

  263. says

    Well, you could have predicted this, right? Todd “legitimate rape” Akin has been endorsed by the NRA.

    The National Rife Association endorsed Rep. Todd Akin’s (R) bid for Senate in Missouri Monday. Akin’s voting history in Congress has earned him an “A” grade from the group…

  264. says

    And in more NRA news: “defeat Obama” ads paid for by the National Rifle Association are being aired:

    The National Rifle Association is launching a new ad asking viewers to protect our freedoms and “defeat Obama,” the Washington Post reports.

    “And now, they’re attacking our Second Amendment rights, but you can stop them right now,” a narrator says in the ad. “Defend freedom, defeat Obama.”

    The ad, called “Chipping Away at Our Second Amendment Rights,” doesn’t explicitly say President Obama has attacked the Second Amendment…

    Obama has not advanced gun-control legislation. The ad buy is $1.3 million and will run in Ohio, Virginia, Florida and Wisconsin, according to the Post.

    You can view the ad here.

  265. trinioler says

    Fucking Ronald D. Moore. Saw his name on the credits as a producer for Roswell(currently watching it).

    Now I know how the series will end. Godddidit.

    Fucking Moore.

  266. says


    I’d laugh if I wasn’t still so angry, all these years later. “Fucking Moore” indeed. I can accept all sorts of hand-waving if it makes some sort of sense and doesn’t undermine the whole damned thing, but the Goddidit ending of BSG was clearly a matter of lazy storytelling and treating the audience like idiots. Same with the whole last season of Lost, come to think of it. It isn’t “we’re telling a story with a spiritual message” it is “we didn’t know how to answer any of the questions we raised, so we’re just going to say “magic” and run away.”

  267. Beatrice says

    Oh, Roswell. I forgot about that series. I wonder how it ended.
    I remember the first season and I’m pretty sure I watched the whole second. Third season is a bit blurry. I got seriously bored, skipped episodes and at some point just gave up.

    Most series should just wrap it up after the first season. There are exceptions (hello, Buffy and Doctor Who), but I would have, for example, remembered Lost and Heroes much more fondly if they finished after season one.

  268. says


    The first season of Heroes was awesome. And then the second series reset everything and was crap. And then the third season was just like the first two and I gave up after a few episodes, and then I have no idea. Suck suck suck suck.

  269. Beatrice says

    Just read the ending of Roswell on wiki. I doubt it looked any less crappy than it appeared in the short summary.

  270. trinioler says

    There’s also DS9. He’s the one responsible for that ending. Oh and he tried to do the same with TNG, but Roddenberry ably stepped on that one.

  271. Beatrice says

    I ♥ X Files. I sorta skipped a lot of episodes towards the end because Mulder Scully – will they won’t they (of course they will) got really really old, especially since everything else suffered because of that plot line.

    But Scully was totally one of my heroes when I first started watching X Files.

  272. Patricia, OM says

    Egad! Someone has given me a cleaning cootie. Over the weekend, and today, I’ve cleaned out all my summer clothes, M’s summer clothes. Sorted washed, and boxed up all the summer bedding. Rewashing and sorting all the fall and winter clothes, and bedding. The worst thing was sorting out the gawd damned sock drawer. I’ve put that off for years, it isn’t wasn’t fit to be a rats nest! Now I’m too tired to haul in the donation boxes.
    (must be all Joes talk of moving that inspired me)

  273. says

    Good evening

    Longest drive: 1.500 km, aka 1000 miles on a holiday with Mr. Wasn’t planned like that. You know kids, this was in the olden times when people used maps and GPS systems cost thousands of bucks. Our plan was to drive about 1.200km and then sleep in a cheap hotel around Barcelona*. Only we somehow managed not to find one and then just had to drive on. The next one we found was 300 km further. It was a hard day. The remaining 1.000km to Sevilla were a piece of cake after that.

    *If you’re ever driving around Europe, Etap of Formule 1 hotels are cheap, clean, devoid of any luxeries and often close to the motorway.

    So, I got #1 for a nice fotosession showing off her new Hootie**

    **Yes, I’m bragging. I’m seriously in love with it.

    As I’m not allowed to have some 15 minutes unadultered fun with my daughter my mum went like “why do you want to take her pictures now?” “Why do you want to take so many pictures?” “Don’t you have enough pictures?”***
    I told her that I like to have pictures of the stuff I make. I admit I didn’t tell her about the internet because those pictures will mean that a pedophile will come and murder her. So she went inside and told my sister I should stop lying, she knew exactly that I was planning and preparing a fashion collection. Seriously, that’s what I dream of…
    By now that’s seriously only a passing acquaintance she has with reality…

    ***The age of digital photography where you take 120 pics to get half a dozen acceptable ones especially when taking pics of a kid on a rubber horse…

  274. cicely says

    Tony: I once, yes, at a buffet, accidentally got a leaf of what I was told was kale on my plate. Being an adult, I thought I should at least try it. It seemed oddly stiff (“plastic-y” was the word that sprang to mind), and I didn’t at all care for the taste of it.

    As for buffets, I like them; partly for the affordability, especially if you’re having a reunion of college friends, for instance, some of whom are low on funds, and partly for the variety, hence the increased likelihood that everyone can find something to their liking…plus, you aren’t stuck with an unlikable veggie side to go with your entre, as you may be at more pricey restaurants, or given a choice from a limited list of options, all of them yukky. Plus, you get to look at it first, and decide whether it looks palatable before the plate appears at your table.

    I have seen a kid grab food from a pizza buffet; his parents were mortified.

    Hey guys! This is my last week of work! Eeeeeeeeeeeee!

    *visual of Kermit the Frog flailing his arms*

    So I informed her that the motto for Portland is Keep it weird! and she said, oh well keep it weird then.

    That isn’t helpful, I don’t have a wet suit.

    What about, say, a snorkel/goggle set up (I’m sure there’s a better way to describe that…), with swim fins—and maybe something Shakespearean rented from a theatrical/costuming shop? Or, wait…weren’t you the one that, some time back, went to a Steampunk wedding? Maybe something along those lines? With or without snorkel and fins?

    And now, I can’t get an image of swim fins worn with spats out of my mind….

  275. Aratina Cage says

    There’s also DS9. He’s the one responsible for that ending.

    I was under the impression from interviews, having just watched it on DVD, that the DS9 ending was a ‘gift’ from Ira Stevens Behr: Star Trek fans had turned Kirk and Picard into gods of a sort, so he wanted to comment on that tendency of fandom to deify the lead captains by making Sisko into an actual god.

  276. Beatrice says

    Hootie… the hood… *dies of cute*

    I wanted to have a rubber horse like that, but my parents never wanted to buy me one. Mother’s friend’s daughter had one, but never let me ride it. On the other hand, I had to share my toys with her.

    /first world problems
    //childish resentment

  277. says

    Oh, and I totally missed the buffet conversation. I LOVE the Chinese buffet. I don’t even have to be particularly hungry or broke, either. I just love having a big choice of flavors. When my wife and I go to a chain bar & grill sort of joint like Applebee’s or TGIFridays, we’ll order a bunch of appetizers for the same reason.

  278. cicely says

    I’m the only feminist godless liberal among the bunch. So lonely! ;)

    Only in meatspace, mythbri!

  279. Patricia, OM says

    cicely – Yep, Naughty and I went to the steam punk wedding at Oaks Amusement Park in Portland. I dressed as the Queen Mum, and he went in top hat and tail coat suit. We were a splendid pair of old ducks, but that was a costume themed affair.

  280. carlie says

    What I notice about those campaign pictures (and others I’ve seen) is that Obama really likes babies. Most of the times you see him with one, he’s nuzzling its head, playing “mimic the face” games, and otherwise snorgling them. Romney seems to be just using them as a photo op.

  281. says

    Wow… did you know that Linda Ellerbee is still alive, and working for Nick News? Amazing. I remember her from when I was way young, and she’s apparently still doing good work.

  282. says

    I received a package from CafePress today* containing a super cute blue onesie (size 6-12 months) that says “future feminist” across the front and I can’t figure out who it’s from!

    *Okay, I know that there wasn’t any mail delivery today, but it was in my mailbox when I got home from work. It was prolly crammed in Asshole Sister’s box by mistake.

  283. A. R says

    I dressed as the Queen Mum, and he went in top hat and tail coat suit. We were a splendid pair of old ducks, but that was a costume themed affair.

    Is there photographic documentation of this?

  284. cicely says

    Email sent to Printer of Shirts. Soon, we shall see if the cicely can haz wheelz? project is even feasible.
    *tentacles selfishly crossed on own behalf*

  285. opposablethumbs says

    Semi ‘rupt and next few days may be more busyness (i.e. flailing desperately to catch up with things I ought to have done days if not weeks ago) so I’ll just take this opportunity to say YAAAAAYYYY Auldey!!!!11!!1

    I was just thinking of you today, in fact, as I got into a discussion about women’s reproductive rights (thank you, Jeremy Hunt the “I just picked this number out of my arse” abortion time limit fuckwit). And thanks largely to the Horde, I was able to put across a fair proportion of what I wanted to say! (I didn’t have to say absolutely everything, so far – though the exchange may continue tomorrow – because I wasn’t entirely on my own: one of the other participants turned out to be a good bloke and was totally on the right lines). It still felt like a bit of an achievement, though, as I am shite at argument. So, thank you Horde for masses of helpful info and for inspiration!

  286. chigau (悲しい) says

    We’re home.
    Kitteh’s like, “Nice to see you. Feed me.”
    Back to normal.

  287. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    I think Obama actually likes campaigning and likes people. Willard (Mitt)…not so much. In less than a month we’ll know just how stupid the American people are.

  288. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    Two things: First, though it hurts my Oregonian heart to point this out, the slogan “Keep Portland Weird” was in fact lifted from Austin, TX (however having never been to Austin, I will happily assert that Portland is far more bizzare than they could ever aspire to).

    Secondly, I have no idea what all these complaints over the ending to BSG are about. The final shot of the series, where the Galactica comes up over the horizon of the moon, was the absolute perfect capstone to that series. Nothing happened after that. Nothing.

  289. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Try watching Slacker, dysomniak, before you declare that Austin could possibly be weirder than Portland, Oregon.

  290. says

    chigau, that was adorable. Luckily, cats are less prone to giving a crap, and this is the third time we’re moving the dog so we know how she reacts. She hates the packing phase because she thinks we’re going to leave her, she LOVES being in the car, and as soon as she gets a new neighborhood to explore on the end of a leash, she’s happy.

    The cats? Throw a couple of towels on the floor, make a bed, and throw a blankie on a sofa, and the cats are sleeping within minutes… problem solved!

  291. strange gods before me ॐ says


    I was thinking more of the equivalent of this:

    Be in control of which cross-site requests are allowed. Improve the privacy of your browsing by not letting other sites know your browsing habits. Secure yourself from Cross-Site Request Forgery (CSRF) and other attacks.

    for Chrome. I doubt I’ll find anything.

    Apparently not. I don’t use Chrome, so I don’t know.

    I do expect that Ghostery for Chrome would be of limited but nonzero use. It should block some cross site requests (I think; the Firefox version does, at least), but only those which are in its blacklist.

    And OpenDNS is fine for what it does, but it doesn’t do what you’re asking about here.


    Page Not Found message again

    For OpenDNS? That is a little strange. (It should resolve those type of problems

    Not when you bork the link.


    Rotary is basically Freemasonry with more potlucks and less Luciferianism. As theophontes said, it’s no more religious than what your local community thinks is the baseline of public religiosity that normal people should display.

    FossilFishy’s advice is good.

    Not a definition, but think of it like a paint chip chart to hold up and see if you’ve found the right shade of brown: Eternal Facism — Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt.

  292. says

    @108 pixelfish
    My mother left her husband a while back, and in the process of telling me how that came about, she told me that before she actually did it, she went to talk to her pastor to see if it was alright. He wasn’t available, so she talked to the guy who leads the singing on Sundays, and he gave her permission to separate from her husband. Her reason? He was violent with her to the point she had called the police on him. Then after the police left she went to church to get permission to leave him. Then she stayed for a month with a family at church, and they talked into going back to him, to “be Jesus to him”. That didn’t work out and thankfully she is out of the house and has her own rental house that she’s signed a lease on, which indicates she plans to stay gone.

    @110 Joe Oh dear, be safe.

    @259 Tony
    I sometimes enjoy the variety of food on a buffet, but I find them not a particularly good deal for me, personally. I generally can only eat one fairly small (for a buffet) plate, and the whole point seems to be to go back several times. There is a Japanese buffet that has a very wide variety and good food, as well as unlimited sushi on the buffet near us – it’s pretty expensive but I really enjoyed that for the variety and being able to have a little of several different types of meals at once. They never change what is on it, though, so I got bored of it after a while.

    @261 Tony
    My ex-boyfriend had a business partner for a while that was Vietnamese. Either his or his wife’s parents lived with his family, and they cooked a lot of fairly traditional foods. They made awesome egg rolls and showed me how to roll them, and they were always inviting us over for dinner. One day the dinner had a very strange conglomeration of addins into rice, including tripe. I ate it, to be polite, but I didn’t like the tripe. It was odd looking, feeling, and tasting. And, I think they are called supermarkets because of being large, larger than food markets used to be. :)

    @370 Beatrice
    I watched Roswell with a gay guy who had a crush on Max a few years back. I don’t remember how it ended, really, but it seemed to peter out vaguely, if I remember correctly.

    @371 Joe
    I’ve been told what happened to Heroes was they tried to keep putting out new episodes during that really long writer’s strike. So they had unqualified writers writing it because the qualified ones were on strike.

    @374 trinioler
    Well that explains that.

    @394 Audley
    Any chance you would want a crocheted baby blanket? I love making them.

  293. strange gods before me ॐ says

    And now I notice that you already responded to FossilFishy’s advice.

    I’m pretty tired.

  294. Rawnaeris says

    Hey, Josh, OSG, this may be moot if you are still in Canada, but you have an email from me.

    Have fun!

  295. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    A belated thank you to everyone who helped me with my inadequate French during this trip to Quebec City. It’s a relief not to struggle along with my Franglais now that I’m back in Vermont. Every time I spoke I felt like I was in a French and Saunders skit:

    “Are you gonna do the accent?”

    “I AM doing the accent! ‘Har are yeeww?'”

    Actually, my accent isn’t bad. It’s my vocabulary and grammar.

  296. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Conversation at dinner in Quebec City with hosts at grand banquet:

    SpokesGay: “It’s difficult to remember the correct gender when one’s mother tongue has no gender for nouns.”

    Table Companion: “Tongue?”

    SpokesGay: “Err, ‘la langue?'”

    Table Companion: “Ah! Oui . . .sa langue!”

    Table Companion: “If you’re not sure, just default to ‘le [noun].’ Never say ‘la [noun]’ if you’re not certain.”

    SpokesGay: “Pourquois pas?”

    Table Companion: “Because it’s feminine. It’s like saying, ‘la mec.’ ”

    SpokesGay: “That’s sexist. Why is that worse than ‘le femme’?”

    Table Companion [with perfectly baffled look]: “Eh?”

  297. chigau (悲しい) says

    I’m glad you had a good time in Québec.
    You shame most Western Canadians who still refuse to admit that they understand un petit peu.
    (and I still had to copy/paste the é)

  298. says


    I’ve decided that I’m safe, and no one in this neighborhood is stupid/crazy enough to make a move against me. It isn’t the dog, or the gun… I think it is the magazine pouch. I’m convinced that my ability to reload a couple of times before I run out of ammo makes me extra-scary to the neighborhood. I think it takes me from “guy carrying a gun to scare people off” to “dangerous lunatic who plans on shooting until everyone is dead.”

    And I can live with that. :)

    Heroes. Oh, Heroes. Poor Hiro Nakamura. He went on a hero’s journey in the first season, and came out of it as an adult and a warrior. Then they erased all of that and made him an immature fanboy again. And then they did it again in the third season! It is the same reason I started to hate Scrubs… there would be character growth, and then they would erase it for no good reason. I don’t expect my characters to be the same in season 4 or 5 or 8 as they were in season 1.

  299. carlie says

    Hi, A-ray!!

    Congrats, Audley! Counting down!

    I spent the weekend taking the plunge into making my own storm windows. Booyah. We have a bay window that has never had storms on the two side panels, because the prev. owners who put it in got it used without them, and it builds up fuckin’ ice in the winter and I’m finally sick enough of it to fix it even though I don’t know what I’m doing. Got the bay panels scraped and repainted, then got frames cut and painted and mostly put together. Next payday will be buying the plexiglass and mounting them.

    We do recipes, so we can do home improvement too, right? ;)

    Cheap-ass storm windows when you don’t have any decent equipment: (requires screwdriver, paintbrush, saw. Optional: drill, miter box)

    Buy flat 1/4″ moulding, equal amounts in 1″ width and 1/2″ width. The plastic stuff is great, because you can put all kinds of screws in it and it won’t split even though it’s thin.

    Measure your window opening 10 times or so, from all directions and in all corners, to be sure you have the measurements right.

    Cut the moulding about 1/4″ shorter than the measurement (to get a 1/8″ gap on all sides at the end), miter the corners if you’re fancy and have a miter box. If not, cut straight edges but remember to cut the side pieces 2 inches shorter to account for the overage on the end pieces. Then go back up and check the pieces in the opening to be sure.

    Lay the thinner moulding on top of the thicker one, lining up the outside edges, so that you have a piece that is twice as tall on the outside edge as on the inside. This gives you a 1/2″ lip to set the glass in when you get it. Wood glue it down, and put a short screw into the ends about 4 inches from the edge and clamp or weight it until it dries. Do on all pieces.

    Prime and paint all the pieces before putting them together, because it’s a lot easier that way. You can nail the pieces together, but I used small flat corner braces on the inside edges (on top of the thin pieces). That way the whole thing is still a little flexible to adapt to the opening (it’s not exactly plumb). Pre-drill holes for screwing into the window later. You might also want to drill out a couple of half-circles at the bottom for weepholes.*

    Put the frame in the window to make sure you did it right. Then measure the opening in the frame, including the “lip” portions. Go get a piece of plexiglass (Duraplex and Optix are brand names), have them cut it there to size. Put a bead of window/siding/weather caulking on the inside edge of the lip, put the plexiglass in and set. Set the window in the opening before it dries entirely, so you can still adjust it into the space if needed (be sure the weepholes are at the bottom), screw in, then weatherstrip caulk around the edges if it’s permanent, put up peel-and-stick foam weatherstripping if you’re taking it off in the spring. If you didn’t put in weepholes, take a couple of leftover bits of moulding and use for shims at the bottom to prop it up a bit, then leave a couple of gaps in the caulking/weatherstripping to be weepholes.

    *disclaimer – I’ve only made it to this part so far. The rest is the Plan.

  300. chigau (悲しい) says

    re: Hiro Nakmura
    Masi Oka, in one of those ‘meet the cast members’ things, responded to an audience question,
    “So, do yuh really talk Japanese or is it faked?”
    with a few sentences in Japanese
    (“Yes, I really speak Japanese, you dumbass.”)
    and then, in English,
    “And that’s how season three ends.”

  301. trinioler says



  302. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    I’m glad you had a good time in Québec.

    I did have a good time and I wish I could have stayed longer; it’s a beautiful city.

    Speaking engagements where your words are being translated on the fly into four languages are awkward, though. Lots of idioms and humor won’t carry through.

    Anyone who’s had a smattering of instruction in romance languages shouldn’t have too much difficulty with basic, conversational phrases to get one through the day. Saying the words and reading the words isn’t nearly so hard as understanding the spoken word at normal conversational pace. A lot of my French came back to me (though one does feel stupid and clumsy) quickly, enough to ask for things but only to get a rapid-fire response I couldn’t understand:

    Cashier: “Bonjour!”

    SpokesGay: “Bonjour! Je voudrais du (de? un?) numero sept, avec les frites et avec le V-8.”

    Cashier: “[rapid-fire French response indicating she knew exactly which chicken sandwich meal I wanted, and would I like it to stay or carry out. Though I had trouble processing this in real time.]”

    SpokesGay: “Pardonnez-moi. . mon Francais n’est pas bon, je suis desolee.”

    Cashier: “That’s OK. We can continue in English.”


  303. Portia says


    Rotary is basically Freemasonry with more potlucks and less Luciferianism. As theophontes said, it’s no more religious than what your local community thinks is the baseline of public religiosity that normal people should display.
    FossilFishy’s advice is good.

    I like your description, it made me smile. Thanks for your input. Though, I would note that there’s also less overt sexism in Rotary : )

  304. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    Also, “Dalek/Tribble slash” yields 297,000 hits on Google.

  305. Tony •Prom King of Sunnydale High• says


    Yes that’s ominous enough Tony. ;)

    I don’t watch that genre of film. Call me silly, but I find them really, really frightening. Mind you, this is the person who found Finding Nemo scary in (quite a few)parts.

    To each their own.
    I would recommend John Carpenter’s Halloween (only the original) for a few reasons:

    1: Alfred Hitchcock was a tremendous influence on the creators involved in innumerable horror movies. IMO, while John Carpenter owes much to Alfred Hitchock, he didn’t try to mimic his success. Rather, he took the baton and ran with it (in a slightly different direction).

    2. Halloween is a slasher film, yes. It is considered by some to be the father of the slasher film (Psycho might be considered the grandfather), so the tropes of that sub genre were new to the public. Even watching the movie through jaded eyes, one can enjoy seeing the genres stereotypes in their infancy.

    3. John Carpenter’s abilities as a director are on full display from the beginning of the movie. There is a sequence in the beginning that I find impressive, even by today’s standards. This is largely due to how the sequence was filmed, what it conveyed, and how subtle it was.

    4. Spoilers-
    There is no blood in the film. The film isn’t a horror/torture porn film. It isn’t a mindless hackfest.

    5. Unlike so many horror movie villains, Michael Myers has a personality. He isn’t treated as a sympathetic character though. He’s clearly a monster with no redeemable qualities.

    6. The score. Love the score. It creeps me out to this day.

  306. Tony •Prom King of Sunnydale High• says


    I don’t want to hear it. Too embarrassing

    You’re embarrassed by your awesomeness?

  307. Ichthyic says



    that’s what you get for reading worldnutdaily.

    you either read it for yuks, or else avoid it to preserve sanity.

  308. says

    Carlie and trinioler:

    I’m hoping Community doesn’t come back until the spring. Otherwise, I expect NBC to air the episodes out of order, on random days, and skipping weeks without notice or good reason. They’ll show 2, take a week off, show 3, switch days and show 2 more, take 2 months off, and then show the rest of the episodes on Wednesdays at noon.


    Gotta disagree with you about Halloween very slightly. I’d say that Michael Myers has NO personality. If I recall correctly, he’s credited in the first film as “the Shape”… which is AWESOME!!! He’s almost like a force of nature with rudimentary will, rather than a person or even a monster.

    You know what’s a good horror film? The Ring. Yeah, it is a “remake” of a J-horror flick. It is one of the few that manages to be as good or better* than the original. Like Halloween there’s not any blood to speak of, and there’s a whole lot of mood and atmosphere in the first half rather than excessive jump scares and cheap shock. Just a really well-made suspenseful film, with a super-intense ending.

    Cool story about The Ring, and why I hold it in such high regard: I saw in on Halloween in the theater when it first came out, before the whole thing was spoiled by word-of-mouth. The theater was pretty much silent through the whole film, minus a couple of gasps during the few jump scares through the first 75% of the film. Then the climax came, and I’m not going to spoil it for the few of you who haven’t seen it.

    You know how normally in a horror movie there’s a jolt and people scream and then they giggle and laugh and maybe yell at the screen? Not this fucking movie. People screamed at the jump scare, and then the theater was filled with moaning and gasping and the creaking sound of people pulling hard against the arms of their seats, and then the next jump and the whole thing repeated, and then silence except for heavy excited breathing as there was a slight pause in the action, and then the big reveal… and big scream, big exhale of air, and not a single giggle or laugh or funny outburst. People were scared out of their fucking minds, and there was a sort of group dynamic where the fear spread across the whole audience, and we were all sort of amplifying each other, and it became a unified fear. It was one of the most amazing experiences I’ve ever had with a film.

  309. says

    Class today. Group discussion of research papers, our chosen topics thereof, and our tentative thesis statements.

    The guy who thinks he’s hot shit, otherwise known as B, says that his topic is “should everyone have the right to vote”. So, offers the prof, some alternate research terms might be suffrage or disenfranchisement. Blank look from B. “Do you know what those words mean, B?” asks the prof. Nope. No he doesn’t.

    So the prof explains what those words mean and then asks for a more detailed explanation of the topic: is B thinking of a specific population of people, for instance? “Well,” says B, “I can read you my thesis.” OK, fine.

    What’s B’s thesis? “Uneducated and uninformed people should not be allowed to vote because their votes ultimately cause more harm than good”.

    Cue incredulous laughter from the prof, the librarian who was in the room, and about 25% of the class.

    These people, man. These fucking people.

  310. says


    That’s so fucking funny that it restores my faith in… wait, no. It restores my hope that most the worst people are ultimately too stupid to cause permanent damage?

  311. Rawnaeris says

    I just realized I’m on TET/Lounge because I feel like it. For fun. I actually don’t have any personal crisis that I need help dealing with for once.

  312. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Why did only 25% of the class laugh at dumbass B? Was the rest shock and disbelief?

    Sorry, I’m just imaging everyone else in the class buying into that crap since I’m in a state where the majority of people do…

  313. says


    Isn’t that the best reason to be anywhere, doing anything? Isn’t it nice not to have a bone to pick, or a score to settle, or a wound that needs patching over? Sometimes we all need advice, or a place to vent, or some assistance with something. And sometimes, it is cool to just talk movies or music or celebrate someone’s good news or just shoot the shit.

  314. says

    Speaking of which… Marshall has just decided to re-release the Dual Super Lead amp from all the way back to 1997. Wait, what? Based on the price, I’m guessing the new ones are made in China or possibly Vietnam. Oh, wow… I just zoomed in on the PDF of the manual. Made in Vietnam. Wow. The classic British amplifier brand is outsourcing to Vietnam.

  315. Patricia, OM says

    A.R. – We were a splendid pair of old ducks. And no I haven’t seen one damned picture of us, even though the brides hired a photographer and we signed up for several shots.

    I blame Improbable Joe, he made Rebecca Watson fuck it up.
    So there.

  316. says

    … I’m not exactly knocking Vietnam as a country, but my dad left a couple of feet of intestines in Vietnam back in the early 1970s, and neither Sylvester Stallone nor Chuck Norris led a rescue mission to get them back.

  317. ibyea says

    On Heroes:
    I saw season one and two. From what I hear, season 3 plot was random plot events. It sucked as much as season 2. When I heard that, I gave up on the show. I wonder what went so wrong after season 1.

  318. says


    I think what went wrong is that maybe stuff that works in comic books doesn’t always work in a live-action prime time format. There’s sort of an overlap between comic books and soap operas, where you’re allowed certain cheesy plots because they work in that genre and nowhere else. You can’t really try to play gritty realism on a network drama where there’s time travel, amnesia, shape shifting, mind control, plus daddy issues for everyone!

  319. Patricia, OM says

    *SNORT* What the hell does Texas know about being weird? Those cow punching, Bush loving peckerwoods couldn’t BBQ their way out of the back end of a 1979 Toyota. And when it comes to beer, we got the Beard.

  320. says



    Yeah, it works ONCE. They threw the whole kitchen sink at the show the first season, and by the third it was all “really, time travel again?” and “Oh, look… another shape shifter.” They really hit every single awesome mark in the first season, and then everything else started feeling like covering the same ground.

  321. ibyea says

    Also, I heard that all of a sudden, Clair Bennett turns lesbian in either season 3 or 4. WTF? There was no hint of that in season 1 at all!

  322. says


    Yeah, that was the point where I checked out for good. It was “college experimenting” or some such nonsense. Mostly it felt like “let’s get chicks making out, people will watch that!” ratings-based writing.

  323. A. R says

    Patricia: Quite unfortunate! I’ve always loved Morning dress, though I find myself with few occasions suited to it.

  324. Patricia, OM says

    A.R. – Quite right. We did receive multiple compliments, and M was wearing a genuine early 1900’s suit & topper that has survived in my family. Two cut aways, two trousers, and two sets of spats. The topper is collapsible. No pairs of gloves survived. He watched a lot of BBC specials to learn how to sit properly in a tail coat. Marvin is pencil thin, ramrod straight, and has a thick silver beard that would make Edward VII jealous.
    Morning clothes should never go out of style.

  325. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    Bah, Slacker might make for an interesting day down here in sleepy Ashland, but even even Eugene would make Linklater’s jaw drop.


    And when it comes to beer, we got the Beard.

    I take it you’re referring to to Rogue’s new… special yeast?

  326. says

    @ ARIDS


    @ SGBM

    Not when you bork the link.

    {slinks off to offer up libations (beer, of course) to the Boltzmann Brontosauri in the sky.}

    @ Portia

    Though, I would note that there’s also less overt sexism in Rotary : )

    This has not always been the case. It is only in the last few years that Rotary has made overt efforts to rid itself of (again, no doubt reflective of societal medians) sexist tendencies in the organisation. The role of “Rotary-Annes” (geddit) was in the past less formal and more as “support role”. They got rid of that legacy without the world collapsing into chaos.

    Though Rotary is very socially engaged they could be described as the right of the left. (Though it is not particularly surprising that a large organisation is far slower to react to social dynamics than individuals. It forms a framework for action by groups and individuals to be more progressive though.)

    The above in my own limited experience (in South Africa) at least.

  327. strange gods before me ॐ says

    It is true that Boltzmann Brontosauruses can materialize anywhere, but if you see any in the sky, you’d better run away from the shadow.

    Though Rotary is very socially engaged they could be described as the right of the left.

    Eh? How is it leftish in any way? Mind, I don’t know how they function ini South Africa, and I do live in a more conservative part of the USA than a lot of other commenters, but around here Rotary is pretty much the Chamber of Commerce. Are you sure you’re not equating “helps people” with “the left”? The number of Republican and Libertarian and at-best-swing-voter Rotarians I’ve met is pretty big compared to the occasional Democrat.

    Not really relevant to the rest of this comment, just something I found earlier:

  328. blf says

    The worst album sleeves of all time: “From breasts and balls to the Beatles, Guardian readers pick the worst album sleeves they’ve ever set horrified eyes upon — featuring a line-drawn howler from Neil Young, space-cartoon rubbishness from Def Leppard, an unfortunate back-seat mishap with some chewing gum…”.

    I suggest not imbibing anything whilst viewing unless you like snorting drinks up your nose / all over the screen.

    Even if you don’t imbibe, you’ll need to wash and rinse your eyeballs afterwards. Scrubbing the residual afterimages out of your brain is also recommended.

  329. Amblebury says

    Eh, my father-in-law is a Rotarian (for thus are they called) here in NZ. The sandwich-making branch, i.e. the women, are referred to collectively as The Inner Wheel. Geddit?

    They do things such as sponsoring immunisation programs in other Pacific nations. Their primary function though, just from my casual observation is to serve as a back-slapping boys’ club. Leftist they are not.

  330. says

    @ SGBM

    you’d better run away from the shadow.

    People think I am moping ’cause I am always looking down.

    Not at all!

    I am ever vigilant… looking out for growing shadows on the ground – in the shape of Brontosauri.

    Are you sure you’re not equating “helps people” with “the left”?

    It is rather hard to translate Southafricanese into Usaian.

    You should read: people who are established in society and financially self sufficient. Privileged even (indeed they can afford the time and expense of such involvement to a greater extent than most). But certainly eager to fight social iniquities (a trait of the left). It goes far further and deeper than “helps people”. I don’t know to what extent such animals exist in USA.

    You would have a grand time in RSA. It maps in many ways to the USA. Both culturally and historically, but in a rather through-the-looking-glass way. “Strange hybrids”, you might say.

  331. blf says

    Former archbishop of Canterbury attacks gay marriage at Tory conference (in the UK):

    Lord Carey says plans would cause deep divisions and likens opponents of gay marriage to Jews in Nazi Germany

    The former archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey, has accused David Cameron [British prime minister] of “plundering” the institution of heterosexual marriage to promote same-sex marriage rights. Allowing gay marriage would cause deep divisions in society “without giving gays a single right they do not have in civil partnership”, he said.

    Carey claimed that in some countries where same-sex marriage had been made legal — including Mexico, Brazil and the Netherlands — it had led to unforeseen consequences such as three-person marriages.

    Asked about opponents of gay marriage being described as “bigots” — on one occasion by Nick Clegg, the deputy prime minister — Carey said: “Let us remember the Jews in Nazi Germany. What started against them was when they started to be called names.

    “And that was the first stage towards that totalitarian state. We have to resist them. We treasure democracy. We treasure our Christian inheritance and we want to debate this in a fair way.”

    Cameron has joined the US president, Barack Obama, in endorsing same-sex marriage… All main parties, including the SNP government in Edinburgh, now endorse the change.

    Carey argued that teachers, doctors and other professionals might be forced out of their jobs if they refused to embrace the proposed change to the law, an intolerant restriction on free speech that Widdecombe said could make the Church of England force disestablishment.

    Ben Summerskill, the chief executive of gay rights group Stonewall, said: “We’re deeply saddened that Lord Carey seems to be resorting to student union abuse. The reality is that gay people are very well aware of the consequences of the Holocaust, for obvious reasons, and when someone descends to this level of rhetoric it suggests they don’t think they have very powerful arguments to rely on.

    Are there Nobel Prizes for Obliviousness, Godwinning, Scare-Mongering, Plain Olde Lying, and Unrationality? Possibly also Frothing At The Mouth and Having Yer Panties in a Twist. We have a serious candidate here for all of those (albeit Rmoney or RLyning of the USAian thugs have perhaps a better claim on the Plain Olde Lying award).

  332. Beatrice says

    PSA: If there’s a sign on the elevator door saying “Out of order”, don’t enter the fucking elevator because you hope it will work just for you because you’re special.

    Had to get an old lady out of the basement. Luckily, the elevator just took her to the basement instead of getting stuck somewhere higher and/or between floors.

  333. says

    Did she notice the sign?

    Ahhh, don’t you love it when people are very generous with your time?
    So, my plan for this morning was to pick up a certificate at office A, put it in an envelope together with other stuff, take it to office B, go see my therapist and then rush the fuck home because my housing company told me there’d be somebody who needs to look at the pipes at 12 o’clock.
    Well, the person in office A clearly didn’t think it necessary to be present during her office hours and of course I couldn’t come back after my therapy session because I needed to get home in 30 minutes (18 miles distance, including a 1/2 mile walk). To be home at 12 for somebody who hasn’t turned up yet, 45 minutes later…
    I need to make a serious phone call, I guess he’ll turn up as soon as the other person answers the phone…

  334. blf says

    If there’s a sign on the elevator door saying “Out of order”, don’t enter the fucking elevator because you hope it will work just for you because you’re special.

    Better signs might be…

     ● Flamethrower testing in progress
     ● ↓ This side up ↑
     ● Danger! Peas!!
     ● If you can read this, you are too close
     ● Parachute required by law
     ● Frequent eruptions of boiling lava
     ● Gravity has been discontinued for maintenance. This elevator will float away into space
     ● Suicide bombers only
     ● Reserved for politicians
     ● Contaminated, Radioactive, and Frequent Electric Shocks

    Or just put a kraken inside.

  335. Beatrice says

    She said she did. (could have just been embarrassed that she missed it, I guess, but people regularly pull something like this (just as our lift regularly breaks down))

    I don’t think I’ve ever had a repairman come on time. I love when they call from the car, claiming they are in the street right across from mine and that they’ll be over in 5 minutes… just to come an hour later.

  336. Beatrice says

    Contaminated, Radioactive, and Frequent Electric Shocks

    One out of three. Might be two, there is something seriously wrong with that one dog.

  337. broboxley OT says

    Once was in Lorado TX and got a “rescue me!” call from Tulsa Oklahoma at 9am. Drove there, arriving about 9:30pm, spent the night and drove home to atlanta. (vacationed ruined) Drove to Atlantic City the next day to visit a friend, spend a few days then drove back to Atlanta. Now as for pets on the road, Almost every motel6 (with very rare exceptions) take pets. I have the motel6 app on my phone as we travel with our dog. Motel 8 is sometimes pet friendly.

  338. says

    Hello a_ray! It’s good to see you! Thanks for the well wishes.

    I def won’t say no to a handmade blanket! (And I feel like you can probably never have too many.)

    I want a NASA/shuttle style countdown.

    Also booooooo to the shitty Community news.

  339. blf says

    Man gets community sentence for Facebook post about dead soldiers:

    A man who posted a Facebook message following the deaths of six British soldiers which said: “All soldiers should die and go to hell” has been sentenced to a community order and told to pay costs of £300 by magistrates.

    Azhar Ahmed … admitted posting the message two days after the deaths of the soldiers in March this year but told a trial at Huddersfield magistrates court last month that he did not think it was offensive. The remarks were derogatory, disrespectful and inflammatory, the court ruled last month as a district judge found him guilty of a grossly offensive communication.

    At the trial in September, District Judge Jane Goodwin said the law was not there to stop legitimate political opinion being strongly voiced. But she said the test was whether what had been written was “beyond the pale of what is tolerable in our society”. She said Ahmed’s post cleared this hurdle and she was satisfied that the message was grossly offensive.

    The first amendment is important. The above suppression of free speech happened in an alleged democracy.

    The Grauniad is publishing this in the UK. Notably, it is repeating exactly what Mr Ahmed wrote. Whether or not the autocratic nutters will now try to “punish” the newspaper, the author, or the editor remains to be seen.

    So what that that Mr Ahmed’s opinion / statement is offensive to many people. So fecking what! Using two examples from USAlien, so are Westboro’s many statements, and also the Innocence of Muslims. Yet neither making them nor repeating them will cost the makers a fine or even time in court.

  340. blf says

    US Protestants no longer a majority, says study:

    For the first time since European settlement the US does not have a Protestant majority, according to a study, with the number of Americans claiming no religious affiliation on the rise.

    The percentage of Protestant adults in the US has reached a low of 48%, the first time Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life has reported with certainty that the number has fallen below 50%.

    The drop has long been anticipated and comes at a time when there are no Protestants on the supreme court and the Republicans have their first presidential ticket with no Protestant nominees. [and there’s an uppity muslim in the White House </snark>]

    … The Pew study, released on Tuesday, found about 20% of Americans said they have no religious affiliation, an increase from 15% in the past five years.

    … American voters who describe themselves as having no religion vote overwhelmingly for Democrats. Pew found Americans with no religion supported abortion rights and gay marriage at a much higher rate than the US public at large. These “nones” are an increasing segment of voters who are registered as Democrats or lean toward the party, growing from 17% to 24% over the past five years. The religiously unaffiliated are becoming as important a constituency to Democrats as evangelicals are to Republicans, Pew said.

    More growth in “nones” is expected. One-third of adults under the age of 30 have no religious affiliation, compared with 9% of people aged 65 and older. Pew researchers wrote that “young adults today are much more likely to be unaffiliated than previous generations were at a similar stage in their lives”, and aren’t expected to become more religiously active as they age.

  341. says


    I think my wife mentioned Motel 6 as a pet-friendly place. This should be fun.

    I think I mentioned earlier, I drove 12 hours to get here with three cats in the car. I came really close to losing my shit, because there was no single five-minute stretch without one of the cats complaining about being in the carriers. And then once once got started, they’d start talking among themselves. By about hour #9 I started responding to them in cat as well. It got pretty fucking surreal, let me tell you.

  342. blf says

    Pakistani girl shot over activism in Swat valley, claims Taliban:

    A 14-year old Pakistani activist who championed education for girls has been shot in the head by a Taliban gunman.

    The attack on Malala Yousafzai, who became famous for highlighting Taliban atrocities, happened as she sat in a bus preparing to leave the school grounds in Mingora, the main city in the Swat valley which was the scene of intense fighting between the army and the Taliban in 2009.

    [A Taliban spokesman, Ehsanullah Ehsan] said the teenager’s work had been an “obscenity” that needed to be stopped: “This was a new chapter of obscenity, and we have to finish this chapter.”

    Fazal Maula Zahid, a member of Swat Qaumi Jirga, a local anti-Taliban group working for peace in the valley, said the gunman had asked which of the girls was Malala.

    One of the girls pointed to Malala, but the activist denied it was her. The gunman shot both of the girls.

    As part of her campaign for girls’ education she wrote an anonymous blog for the BBC about the chaos at the time, including the burning of girls’ schools.

    Her efforts were recognised by Pakistan’s prime minister who awarded her the country’s first National Peace award and a reward of around £3,300 after she missed out on winning the International Children’s Peace Prize for which she was nominated in 2011.


    Also in the article:

    Also on Tuesday a case before the supreme court highlighted other problems faced by women when justices ordered an investigation into the alleged barter of seven girls to settle a blood feud in a remote district in south west Pakistan.

    A tribal council ordered the barter in early September, the district deputy commissioner, Saeed Faisal, told the court. He did not know the girls’ ages but local media reported they were between four and 13.

    [Chief Justice Iftikhar] Chaudhry ordered Faisal to make sure that all members of the tribal council appear in court on Wednesday, as well as a local lawmaker who belongs to one of the two subtribes believed involved in the incident.

    The tradition of families exchanging unmarried girls to settle feuds is banned under Pakistani law but still practiced in the country’s more conservative, tribal areas.

    Is this where the USAlien thugs go to learn ethics, welfare, responsibility, and justice?

  343. birgerjohansson says

    Martin Rundkvist at the Aardvarchaeology blog has a request for readers:

    “Let’s make a list of religious prophets! But only the ones who, having convinced their faithful followers that they spoke the word of God, suddenly received revelations to the effect that *God totally wanted them to fuck children or adolescents*. I know of three to start with. Let’s have some more, with references!”
    Martin has already listed Muhammed, Joseph Smith and David Koresh. More examples?
    — — — — — — — —
    Protists: Scientists reclassify eukaryotic microorganisms
    Energy-efficient graphene membranes may lead to enhanced natural gas production, less CO2 pollution
    Selective tumor treatment: β-galactosidase releases active agent from prodrugs
    Scientists identify genetic signatures for aggressive form of prostate cancer
    Vitamin variants could combat cancer as scientists unravel B12 secrets

  344. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    Today in little things that make Esteleth giddy:

    I got a new parking space!!! ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

    *dances wildly*

    Why am I so happy?


    My old parking space was a “lockbox” space. Which is to say, there is such a parking shortage here that the lots have three deep parking. Like, two cars with a third sandwiched between them. One of the outside cars has to have a little lockbox hanging on its door, containing a key to the car.

    Hella uncool!

    Previously, I was assigned to a lockbox space. I now have a non-lockbox space!!


    Now, what else was I going to do today?

    …oh right. Seminar!

  345. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Welcome back ARIDS. You were missed.


    I want a NASA/shuttle style countdown.

    Remember the “hold” at T minus nine minutes while all systems sychronize? I think you are there.

  346. Therrin says

    Just got off the phone to FFRF – dress for the convention can run from tux to sweat pants.

    In Portland, formal means socks under the Tevas.

  347. carlie says

    My old parking space was a “lockbox” space. Which is to say, there is such a parking shortage here that the lots have three deep parking. Like, two cars with a third sandwiched between them. One of the outside cars has to have a little lockbox hanging on its door, containing a key to the car.




    I could see having an emergency page to make that person come move their car, but leaving a key? No fucking way. Besides the fact that a lot of cars have damned expensive keys, what with the electronics and all.

  348. blf says

    My old parking space was a “lockbox” space. Which is to say, there is such a parking shortage here that the lots have three deep parking. Like, two cars with a third sandwiched between them. One of the outside cars has to have a little lockbox hanging on its door, containing a key to the car.

    French solution is to leave the handbrake off so the (locked) car can be pushed out of the way. Usual method of “pushing the car out of the way” is to ram it with another car (not necessarily your own, I’ve seen people ram their car into car A, ramming car A into car B, and then occupy the spot formerly containing car B). The ramming is usually bumper-to-bumper, but from the dents you’d never realize that…

  349. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    If slavery were so God-awful, why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it?

    Ethical monsters like Arkansas State Rep. Loy Mauch are too fucking stupid and self centered to realize that a big fucking government is needed to keep a segment of the population enslaved. Slavery was the reason why the southern representatives insisted on having a militia, the owners needed a way to suppress uprisings.

    Please, someone try to explain to me why the Tea Party are not fucking racists!


  350. blf says

    Please, someone try to explain to me why the Tea Party are not fucking racists!

    The theebuggers aren’t racists or bigots ‘cuz they say so. So there. Pffffft! And unlike you stewped liturdal nazi gay uppity mooslin athiset commies, they don’t make babies in public. So they’re not f***ing either. Pffffffffffffft!!!

  351. Matt Penfold says

    The theebuggers aren’t racists or bigots ‘cuz they say so

    Amd calling someone a bigot is just like how the Nazis killed the Jews. How do we know this ? A former Archbishop of Canterbury has said, and would such a person lie I ask you!

  352. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Arkansas making it big in the news for fuckneuttery today

    A candidate for the Arkansas legislature, Charlie Fuqua, says children who don’t demonstrate “respect for parents” should be put to death, the Arkansas Times reports. Fuqua is a former member of the Arkansas legislature and has received support from the Arkansas Republican Party and two sitting members of Congress.
    Here’s the key passage from Fuqua’s 2012 book, “God’s Law: The Only Political Solution“:

    The maintenance of civil order in society rests on the foundation of family discipline. Therefore, a child who disrespects his parents must be permanently removed from society in a way that gives an example to all other children of the importance of respect for parents. The death penalty for rebellious children is not something to be taken lightly. The guidelines for administering the death penalty to rebellious children are given in Deut 21:18-21:

  353. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    If slavery were so God-awful, why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it,…

    Because the society that the religion came from had slaves and it was accepted as being proper. Frankly, most of us have a more ethically based view of this than they did. Why does Loy Mauch want to have a regressive view of humanity?

    …why was it in the Constitution…

    Because it was the only way for all of the very different colonies to band together against England. They were not forming a government because the colonies of the Carolinas and New England had so much in common. They did not. It was the only way to fight against England.

    …and why wasn’t there a war before 1861?

    And yet the US came close to civil war many times in the decades before 1861.

    The South has always stood by the Constitution and limited government.

    How limited is a government that needs a well armed militia to suppress a slave uprising. Shit, this is not a new concern; one can read about this in The Republic by Plato. A slave owning society will become a tyranny if it is not already one.

    When one attacks the Confederate Battle Flag, he is certainly denouncing these principles of government as well as Christianity.

    Wrong, when one attacks the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia, one is attacking a government and a religion that is grounded on racism. Loy Mauch needs to defend the idea of why it is ethical to hold a segment of humanity in bondage.

  354. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    I once got in an argument with someone who I have approximately 25% sequence identity over the Civil War and slavery.

    The conversation went something like this:
    Me: The issues being fought over in the Civil War boil down to slavery.
    Cupcake: No, not all. Property rights were a huge issue.
    Me: As in the right to keep other people as property, i.e. slaves?
    Cupcake: Ugh! Why do you have to keep saying “slave” like it is a dirty word?!

  355. birgerjohansson says

    Audley Z. Darkheart,
    Yes, the glorious founder of the LDS church got himself some very young brides once he gave himself licence to bonk multiple wimminz. Or not-quite-yet wimminz.

    Broboxley, thank you.
    Examples of other pedophile phrophets will be appreciated.
    — — — — —
    Good news
    I had helped provide a hundred posters about a missing cat for his owner.
    The cat was returned today after a volunteer group who provides for homeless cats identified him through the ID chip. Since the cat went missing September 20, I had not been hopeful.
    The local shop is selling off some cat food at a discount, since they are altering the inventory. I am buying some of the stuff to donate to an 80-year old lady who spends all her time to take care of cats waiting for new homes.
    — — — — — — — —
    “If slavery were so God-awful, why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it?”

    They were obviously arseholes. Next question.
    — — — — — — — — —
    Since the Taliban value martyrdom, let’s deny it to them.

    Next time you catch a member of a death squad, give him a massive dose of insulin or whatever. Then send his permanently comatose body back to his fellow killers and let them provide for him.

  356. Esteleth, Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo says

    Next time you catch a member of a death squad, give him a massive dose of insulin or whatever. Then send his permanently comatose body back to his fellow killers and let them provide for him.


    Firstly, hello ethics!

    Secondly, insulin overdose is fatal in some people.

    Thirdly, explain to me how this is not torture.

    Fourthly, “I didn’t actually kill him myself” is not an acceptable defense for murder-for-hire.