Stephanie has a good collection of items in her post Within the Movement – items that are more than just “trolls on the internet.”
- If announcing a conference about the role of women in secularism on your organization’s site is met with charges of misandry or comments on a report of the conference have to be shut down, with the problems coming from registered users, that happens within the movement.
- If a speaker and writer hosts a discussion for about a year that is devoted to tearing down those who call harassment an issue, posting personal information and lies, tracking everything said or tweeted in obsessive detail, that happens within the movement.
- If an atheist organization’s leader declares publicly that what you received couldn’t have been a real threat and uses that organization’s podcast to grossly misrepresent what you did receive, that happens within the movement.
And that’s only some of it.
Are you suggesting that Ron Lindsay is incorrect when he claims the “movement” is misogyny free?
Every movement is difficult with the internet so prominently intertwined with every aspect of its operation.
No, that is unacceptable behavior by people that associate themselves with ‘the movement’ and they are subject to laws covering defamation.
Also, what movement are you talking about?
I’m an atheist and a skeptic, but these are not ‘movements.’
Addressing issues in the community is not a ‘movement.’
Yeah, now that I think about it, what movement?
mikmik, you need to read Ron Lindsay’s blog post to understand what’s meant by “the movement.” Ophelia and Stephanie are using Ron’s definition.
Sigh, did you read the article? It is my position, exactly, and that is that other ‘movements’ have the A+ territory covered already, and while Ron agrees with the philosophy and intentions of A+, he calls into question the need for A+, and warns of it dividing the atheist community at a time when progress has been occurring in these areas already.
In fact, you should read some non-american blogs. The ones I have read, and I just came back from the
The self-pity Olympics are in full swing I see.
Or be subjected to the most vulgar sexual abuse. Or you might have people call for your firing. Or you might have them write to your place of work and try to cause trouble for you there. Or you might find yourself attacked and humiliated from a public podium for an internet disagreement. Or you might find yourself smeared as a shoe-obsessed ditz who just wants to please the boys…
Oh, whoops. Got my facts wrong there. Those are the things you lot did. They’re what you directed at anyone who disagreed with the self-pity fest that’s been going on for a year.
And let no one forget that for all the whining about ‘privilege’, this all started because Dawkins was fed up seeing a phenomenally well-off brat whining about being offered coffee, all the while ignoring the cruelty and barbarism visited on their sisters under Islam every day.
I’ll let you get back to your hankies and tubs of ice cream now.
“being offered coffee”
Penny: Oh, you think coffee means coffee, that is so sweet.
MikMik, Icany speak for anyone eelse, but i dont need everyones acceptance, least of all a blatherskites.
“However, who they want to be separated against must be clarified”
Please comment on that blog, it may give them a clue.
“The self-pity Olympics are in full swing I see.”
And yet you are the one whining here,”mwaaa you started it” and you are the one seemingly in need of a hanky. boo hoo
Oh brother, I don’t use the term lightly, but you’re a damn liar.
“…this all started because Dawkins was fed up seeing a phenomenally well-off brat whining about being offered coffee, all the while ignoring the cruelty and barbarism visited on their sisters under Islam every day.”
If you knew anything about the facts of the matter, you would know full well that Ophelia, PZ, Skepchick, and just about everyone who has ever blogged on FtB has a history of criticising Islamic practices that make women’s lives miserable. But, you know, why learn anything about someone before slagging them off?
Oh bother, 5
I don’t suppose you could be bothered to provide some form of corroboration for your accusations, particularly 1 and 2?
As for [3], yes, Greg Laden did that to Abbie Smith. It was a scumbag move which I absolutely do not agree with, widely decried by many and not okay.
Satisfied?
[4] Stef McGraw, seriously? Are you still on that?
Suppose for sake of argument that that is exactly what happened and you are not Eliding a fuckton of context – does that justify the abuse RW has received since then?
[5] Again with the Elisions. Stop doing that, it makes you look dishonest.
[6] No no no. They didn’t get criticized because they were on the “wrong” side, they were criticized because their “arguments” were ridiculous, which is what you’d expect. If I made a ridiculous excuse for an “argument”, I sure as shit would like to know about it.
It’s like telling someone they have dog shit on their shoes. I’d rather hear “Jesus Christ you got dog shit on your shoe and it’s stinking up the fucking place” and investigate whether it’s true that I have dog shit on my shoe than have everyone be all quiet and giving each other significant *looks* and never inviting me over to their house again because I smear dog shit on their carpet.
Seriously, you don’t get to present half-truths and outright lies as the One Holy Truth and create a new truth. That’s pretty… religious of you.
“The most vulgar sexual abuse”? Seriously? You think Abbie Smith is the one who was subjected to the most vulgar sexual abuse? You’ve got that backward. She dishes it out, and encourages others to dish it out, and as far as I’ve ever seen she doesn’t get any.
Yes, Atheism+ is divisive. There’s the people who want to combine their atheism with social justice and those who don’t. If you prefer your atheism to be pure and unsullied by meaningless trivia like social justice, the you won’t join A+.
Reading Ron Lindsay’s post and his later comment, it appears to me that what he’s really worried about is a new organization competing with his for money and participation. His complaints about A+ are too self-serving, particularly his insistence that while he supports social justice, it shouldn’t override his organization’s secularist agenda.
My other objection to Lindsay’s comments is he’s ignorant about what’s happening in atheism/skepticism these days. He knows what’s going on inside his self-described movement, but atheism/skepticism is more than organized secularism. He’s unaware of the rampant rape and death threats, the objectification of women, and the sheer outpouring of hatred the rest of us have seen since Rebecca Watson uttered “guys, don’t do that.” But that ignorance hasn’t stopped him from pontificating about A+. CFI stands for “Center for Inquiry.” Lindsay didn’t do enough inquiring before he displayed his ignorance for all to see.
From the same liar who argued the other day that Abbie Smith had said only one “nasty” thing.
Totes not misogynist, nope.
Speaking of elisions, why does no one ever mention that Greg wrote to Abbie’s PI about a matter of professionalism? Abbie was publicly slagging off Jen’s scientific work–attacking Jen professionally.
Keeping the professional and the personal separate is exactly the kind of thing a PI works with a trainee on. If someone isn’t clear that using science to go after someone personally is a big no-no by the time they get their PhD, they could be in big trouble.
Also, who tried to get anyone fired, except for maybe Sara (she’s now declining to answer questions on what she was asking CFI to do)?
Quiet, everyone. Oh brother is talking. Go on, dear. Tell us all about it. As many times as you need, to get it out of your system.
@mikmik
Have you read the post here at Butterflies & Wheels titled, “Has it already been repudiated?“? Because the recognition only seems to extend so far until it trounces uncomfortably on the free speech of misogynists at which point it is ignored or shrugged off.
@footface
Heehee! The problem is that they never do shut up about it, here or there. Which is why it seems so obsessive. As if we didn’t hear them loud and clear the first time someone complained how much they didn’t like so-and-so and how much of a [insert sexist slur of your choice here] that person is.
This post has been updated: http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/09/13/within-the-movement/ Sara Mayhew had some objections.