Oh, no…not another debate

Is there any point? Isn’t this whole thing over now?

Anyway, tonight the competent, experience woman is going to have to share the stage with the ignorant, egocentric man, and give him unearned equal time. The topics that Hillary Clinton will discuss have been announced:

  • Debt and entitlements
  • Immigration
  • Economy
  • Supreme Court
  • Foreign hot spots
  • Fitness to be President

Note that I said these are what Clinton will discuss. Trump will be off in argle-bargle land, ranting about how great he is and how his enemies will face his wrath and vengeance. One thing I’ve noticed about these debates, though, is that they don’t discuss…science. I think the politicians are afraid of the subject.

But here’s something brilliant: Gaius Publius explains how every one of those topics could be turned into specific questions about climate change. All it would take is some intelligence and willingness to dig a little deeper on the part of the moderator…

Oh, crap. The moderator is Chris Wallace? Fuck it, he’s a schmuck.


  1. anthrosciguy says

    I see the first category is designed to bring yet another question or questions written by Peter Peterson about how we should cut Social Security and turn it over to his cronies in the form of fees.

  2. starfleetdude says

    anthrosciguy, I figure #1 let’s Hillary Clinton portray herself as the protector of Social Security while setting up Trump to be a fear-monger about it. That’ll go over like a lead balloon among seniors in Florida and Arizona.

  3. Terska says

    She needs to insist on expanding Social Security and debunk the Social Security is going broke myth. Medicare for anyone over 50. If the Cheeto Benito whines about the debt she can mention that he has made the debt worse by not paying his fair share and gloating over it.

  4. Reginald Selkirk says

    Foreign hot spots

    “Well, I don’t know, you know there’s lots of different ways of doing it. It’s a very complicated subject. They say that more people were killed by women in this act than killed in Vietnam, OK,” Trump said. ..

    Stern responded, “I even went as far to say that you’re braver than any Vietnam vet because you’re out there screwing a lot of women.”
    “Getting the Congressional Medal of Honor, in actuality,” said Trump…

    “I’m having a good time, but Howard, you know the one negative: It’s very, very dangerous out there,” said Trump.
    “Yes it is, it’s your Vietnam,” added Stern.
    “It’s Vietnam,” added Trump. “It is very dangerous. So I’m very, very careful.”

    source quote

  5. robro says

    Oh, crap. The moderator is Chris Wallace? Fuck it, he’s a schmuck.

    And he’s from Fox…so yeah, he’s a schmuck, a shill for Rupert and his boys.

  6. Silver Fox says

    This isn’t about the debate, but it is (sort of) about the Trump campaign here in VA. Last night my repugnant, flaming right winger, porcine faced neighbor’s Trump-Pence sign went missing. Though it irked me every time I drove into my driveway, I swear that I was not the one who took it. My wife, a big-hearted, tolerant soul, suggested that he removed it himself in disgust at Trump’s latest string of nauseating, sexist gaffes. I have no way to prove otherwise, but I highly doubt it. It is worth noting that his Bush, McCain and Romney signs never disappeared. This campaign is very different than those were. Emotions are running so high, the anger so deep, that I fear encountering anyone on the other side of the divide. When I do I keep my mouth shut and go quietly about my business. You know. Guns and shit.

  7. howdydodat says

    The very fact that Wallace has worked so long for such a morally bankrupt network speaks volumes, but I think he will surprise you guys with his questions. He was tough in the primary debates.

  8. Mobius says

    Trump is a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

    Clinton, IMHO, has her bad points and I wish we had a different Democrat candidate. But in comparison to Trump, it’s no contest.

  9. asclepias says

    I’m sure I’ll see some of it by accident as other people in my house are going to watch it, but I’m not planning to watch any of it on purpose. On the other hand, it’s sort of like a train wreck–terrible to see, but hard to look away.

  10. Ragutis says

    Granted, it’s a low bar, but Wallace is probably one of the the toughest interviewers on Fox. He doesn’t toss all softballs, and he occasionally follows up or calls out someone for deflecting or avoiding the question. Democrats more often then not, but still. And with Ailes gone, I don’t think Trump has that many friends at Fox anymore. The morning morons, Hannity and O’Reilly seem to be about it. I guess we’ll see in a few hours.

    Trump seems to be doubling down on the craziness though for the debate. He needs to win over A LOT of undecideds and 3rd party voters to even have a chance, but looking at who he’s invited as “guests”, it looks like it’s all gonna be Benghazi, emails, and Bill Clinton’s infidelities. Red meat for the base, but turn offs for everyone else. I think he’s either just out to do as much damage as possible or looking ahead at having a solid audience when he figures out how to profit off this spectacle. Perhaps both. Likely both.

  11. John Morales says


    Knowledgeable, competent person vs. ignorant buffoon.

    Candidate vs. candidate.

    Evidently, ignorance and buffoonery are not a fatal impediment to attaining candidacy.

    (And, also evidently, chutzpah and bullshittery made him the chosen candidate for the Republican Party!)

  12. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Ha ha. Trump keeps basically saying, ‘I know you are, but what am I?’

    Should we tell him???? And would he listen?????

  13. ck, the Irate Lump says

    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls wrote:

    Should we tell him???? And would he listen?????

    Like a toddler, he’d probably just repeat it until we got tired of telling him.

  14. ck, the Irate Lump says

    SC (Salty Current) wrote:

    “Such a nasty woman.”

    Plus all his interjections of Wrong! every time Hillary repeated something Trump has said in the past.

  15. cartomancer says

    Watching Trump warble on in his disjointed way about the conflicts in the Middle East is terrifying. He’s like the leery bloke in the back of the pub who will give you his ridiculous opinion on everything, whether you asked for it or not.

    How does thirty years of running sleazy casinos badly prepare him for understanding the complexities of military strategy? Why does he even think he is qualified to form an opinion on it? How does twenty years of building gaudy eyesores, diddling workers out of their pay, running a pretend university and starring in a dire TV series make him at all suitable to pronounce on matters of Middle Eastern policy? How does hawking cheap meat out of a photography shop make him an expert on international geopolitics?

    I mean, I certainly don’t know enough about the situation to diagnose what needs to be done. But I don’t claim I do. It is painfully obvious that this man is utterly unsuited to any political appointment.

  16. Ed Seedhouse says

    Poor Donald doesn’t have the stamina to be able to keep up a pretense of sanity for 90 minutes.

  17. says

    Cross posted from the Moments of Political Madness thread.

    When asked, twice, Trump refused to say that he would accept the November election results.

    The Republican nominee for president refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power following the election. [from Shane Goldmacher]

    Trump’s answer on accepting the outcome of the vote is the most disgraceful statement by a presidential candidate in 160 years. [from Bret Stephens]

  18. says

    Trump’s actual comment in response to the question about accepting the results of the election: “I’ll keep you in suspense, okay.”

  19. says

    Josh Marshall’s analysis of Trump’s “keep you in suspense” comment:

    That kind of ‘suspense” is precisely what makes democratic polities collapse. Vicious cycles of civic violence and violation of democratic norms have the pernicious of distorting and transforming the behavior of those who believe in democratic institutions. They create a setting in which it becomes rational to take steps that undermine them further. If you really don’t know if your opponent will accept the result of the election, you start taking steps to guard against what happens if he doesn’t. You take steps to protect yourself, your political future, maybe your safety and property. This is the death spiral of democracies.

    It is hard to weigh in the balance Trump’s violations of our democratic order but this was a considerably greater violation than the pledge to jail Clinton if he becomes president, though that was as former Attorney General Michael Mukasey accurately put it, “a watershed.” Yet they are both parts of the same civic cancer: politics through raw power and violence, as opposed to a combat of political forces, often unruly, mediated by the rule of law and respect for democratic institutions. The universal acceptance of those core rules allows everything that is vital in politics take to place. It’s really that bad. […]

  20. says

    Hillary Clinton really put Trump’s tendency to claim that things are “rigged” in perspective.

    […] “This is horrifying. Every time Donald thinks things aren’t going in his direction, he claims everything is rigged against him,” Clinton said. “The FBI conducted a yearlong investigation into my emails. They found nothing. He said it was rigged. [snip of comments about Republican primary results in Iowa and Wisconsin] He said the Republican primary was rigged against him. He claims the court system and the federal judge is rigged against him. [Snip detail about Trump University.] There was even a time when he didn’t get an Emmy for his TV program three years in a row and he started tweeting that the Emmys were rigged against him.”

    “Should have gotten it,” Trump interrupted.

    Clinton categorized this pattern of behavior as an inherent trait of Trump’s before arguing that he’s talking about breaking the tradition of a peaceful transition of power in the United States.

    “This is a mind-set. This is how Donald thinks, and it’s funny, but it’s also really troubling,” she said. “That is not the way our democracy works. We’ve been around for 240 years. We’ve had free and fair elections. We’ve accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them, and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election.” […]


    Video also available at the link.

  21. What a Maroon, living up to the 'nym says

    And if we could run our country the way I’ve run my company, we would have a country that you would be so proud of.

    Which company is that? Trump U? Trump steaks? The various Trump casinos?

    Or perhaps the Trump International Hotel in DC?

  22. What a Maroon, living up to the 'nym says

    More on the Trump International Hotel:

    The 263-room five-star hotel in the historic Old Post Office building opened last month. But even with a prime location near the White House, swanky interiors, and aggressive promotion by the candidate himself, empty rooms have forced the hotel to reduce rates during a peak season. At the same time, the hotel has lost two planned restaurants, Hispanic employees are making claims of discrimination, and protesters are gearing up to do whatever they can to cause trouble for the hotel.

    Some of the issues even predate Trump’s presidential campaign: When the government inked a 60-year, $200 million lease with Trump in 2012, rival hoteliers took the unusual step of warning Uncle Sam that the deal could turn into yet another Trump business failure.</blockquote?

  23. ck, the Irate Lump says

    What a Maroon, living up to the ‘nym wrote:

    And if we could run our country the way I’ve run my company, we would have a country that you would be so proud of.

    Which company is that? Trump U? Trump steaks? The various Trump casinos?

    Well, he’ll just have the U.S. declare bankruptcy when things don’t go his way, and get out of the business of nation…-ing.

  24. microraptor says

    Mobius @10:

    Trump is a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

    His supporters are even worse.

  25. blf says

    I got a chuckle from this snippet of Donald Trump refuses to say if he will accept election result in final debate:

    Embarrassingly for Trump, who has claimed victory in the wake of previous debates because he won instant — easily rigged — online polls, he was also declared the loser on an online survey conducted by the pro-Trump website Breitbart.com.

    Teh trum-prat’s brownshirts have spiraled so far down their hole they’re failing in their manipulation of their own polls.

  26. Joey Maloney says

    The point was to give Lord Littlefingers another chance to stick his foot in his mouth and see if this time he’d insert it so far that he’d disappear down his own throat. And he succeeded brilliantly.

  27. birgerjohansson says

    This is marvellous. I can feel shadenfreude with a clean conscience when the vulgo-conservatives crash and burn.
    — — — — — — —
    “This is horrifying. Every time Donald thinks things aren’t going in his direction, he claims everything is rigged against him,”
    Ze joos did it!

  28. congenital cynic says

    I only lasted 26 minutes. Had to stop watching. Find it totally nauseating listening to that ignoramus prattle on in vague generalizations.

    But I’m very glad I don’t live in the US. I think that no matter which way this goes, it’s going to be bad. If Trump were to actually win (and I don’t think he will), it would be an unmitigated disaster. But if he loses (as I suspect he will), he has primed the violent propensities of his base, and even if there is only a small percentage who are nuts enough to turn that bravado into action, I think there will be incidents of violence.

    From here it looks like the country has gone crazy over the last 20 + years. Scary when you live next door.

  29. johnhodges says

    Hey, if Trump refuses to accept the results of the election, we can just charge him with sedition and put him on trial. What fun that would be. Most amusing would be his followers’ moral outrage that we could even think of such a thing.

  30. agents15 says

    The fact that he’s losing a Breitbart online poll as of right now is absolutely hilarious.

    Debates need to be multimedia affairs with projectors and pre-loaded clips on a list, just to prevent/cut back on lying by candidates.
    Clinton: He lied about supporting the Iraq war.
    Trump: Wrong!
    Clinton: Roll clip 15.

  31. Lagerbaer says

    To pick up your assessment of Wallace as a Shmuck: Overall I’d say he did a good job. Much better than expected, and better, in my opinion, than Lester Holt. He did lob obvious softballs to Trump (2nd amendment) but he did on occasion interrupt Trump’s ramblings and held his feet to the fire. That got Trump to give his disastrous statement that he would “hold the country in suspense”…