A Catholic nun was so distressed by the abortion of an unnamed fetus that she made arrangements to give it a funeral and a name. That sounds nice, except that it is also extremely creepy.
With permission to proceed granted, she began making arrangements for his memorial service by first giving this child a name. A beautiful small wooden urn would be engraved– but what name should she choose, she wanted to know? I gently suggested “Victor”, in honor of her mother, Victoria who had passed away two days earlier and she happily agreed. The middle name would come to her in an equally tender way as she told me of a conversation with a young woman she had met the previous day.
This woman had confessed to Sister that she had aborted her baby, an action she deeply regretted. But she could never give her little girl a proper burial since the remains were lost, and this deep sorrow haunted the mother’s memory. But when Sister told her about her plans for Victor and that she could include her baby’s name, Marie, with his, it greatly consoled her.
And so the service was held on Thursday May 2, 2013 – the same day Sister’s mother was buried miles and miles away. A fellow nun, a lay associate, two deacons, a priest and a bereaved family mourning the recent loss of their own stillborn child gathered around the altar for Holy Mass with little Victor Marie in their center.
I don’t have a picture of Victor Marie, but I can kind of guess what he looked like. Like this:
Yep. They gave a full Catholic funeral to…a medicine bottle. Why? Because they had learned that many medications are made using cultured human cells, some of which were originally extracted from fetal tissue. This particular medication was made using the WI-26 cell line, a venerable product of the Hayflick lab, first isolated back in 1961. The work was described in this rather important paper:
Hayflick L, Moorhead PS (1961) The serial cultivation of human diploid cell strains. Exp Cell Res.25:585-621.
Look it up. They describe and evaluate a number of cell lines that were created for ethical medical uses.
This raises the question of the use of diploid human cell strains for the production of killed or attenuated human virus vaccines: and in particular poliovirus vaccines. The objections raised against using heteroploid cell lines in the production of human virus vaccines have been pointed out by Westwood: “It is the fear of malignancy more than any other single factor which precludes the cell lines at present available from use in the production of virus vaccines.” In view  of the filtration procedures used in making oral polio vaccines the question of feeding live cells can be discounted. As pointed out further by Westwood: “The risk lies in the possibility of inducing malignant changes in the cells of the human subject by the introduction of an, as yet hypothetical, virus or non-living transforming principle analogous to that inducing change of type in the pneumococcus.”
In order to make vaccines using attenuated or dead viruses, one needs to first grow them in something — and cultured cell lines are a safer source than, for instance, growing them in live human volunteers. Furthermore, there were concerns that cell lines that exhibited strong cytopathologies, such as gross chromosomal abnormalities, might also be infected with other viruses, and so might act as a vector for other diseases. Hayflick and Moorhead created a set of diploid cell lines that could more safely be used in the production of vaccines. These same cell lines are also used in other kinds of research.
But here’s the thing: there isn’t a baby in that bottle. It’s not clear what kind of medication they were burying, but if it were a vaccine, for instance, there isn’t even a remote descendant of fetal cells in the bottle: it would be a collection of viral proteins, dead bits of a virus, which had once upon a time grown on human-derived cells.
Which means that if Catholic rituals actually worked, they just sent a virus to Heaven.
I’m also thinking the priests are going to be very busy having funerals for millions of petri dishes and discarded 96 well plates and old bottles, on the illusion that they are all objects of Jesus’ concern.
It is like these people have not left the magical thinking stage that toddlers go through. They need a concrete object because they have trouble with abstract thinking.
“We’re gonna need a bigger boat”
-Charon
“They sent a virus to Heaven”
Now I have the image of angels with Ebola in my head. (Yes I know that virus wasn’t sent to Heaven, but I can still think it.)
… and Anteprepro wins the thread with only the second comment!
what a way to waste time and resources. But theists are champs at that and ignoring the needs of real people.
But on the upside, it’s good to keep those folks busy. If they’re mumbling and waving their hands over bottles of liquid, then they aren’t doing actually harmful things.
Strangely, they never have funerals for the 50% or so of spontaneous miscarriages that occur unbeknownst to anyone, thus condemning untold billions of poor little baybeez to hell. I wonder why that is?
“…they just sent a virus to heaven.”
Ya hear that?? Huh?? HUH??
You’ve pissed off the lord!
Dammit, people!
What baffles me the most about this kind of ridiculousness is how selective it is. I bet this delusional woman wouldn’t think of doing the same for the cells that she sheds down the drain every time she showers, she wouldn’t ask for her blood back after a test, or would never think of saying a prayer for that human hair follicle she killed when she cruelly attacked it with tweezers….human cells being destroyed all the time and not a fuck given…
It betrays something that is beyond fucked up…they selectively choose this kind of nonsense because it’s useful in perpetuating shame among their followers. They fucking love shame.
They sent a virus into Heaven. I am not sure what the implications are. Can you have biological warfare against angels? Quick, someone fetch the sophisticated theologians! Before it rains!
And all the miscarriages that occur. The Catholics are going to be quite busy.
Oops, I see Iris already commented about miscarriages.
****
anteprepro @ 10:
Oh, the implications are clear to me. They are quite dire indeed. You see, this is the start of a war against god.
Irisvanderpluym:
Those are God’s abortions, those little babes he called back home for unknown, godly reasons. So, of course, those abortions are moral. It’s when those uppity female humans make the decision that it’s all horrible, evil and wrong.
@ antipro #10
Is it bad for me to envisage all the angels with pertussis?
Miscarriages, periods, unimplanted fertilized eggs, intestinal linings, warts, pimples, shed hair, calluses, blown noses, clipping nails, lost teeth, spunk socks, eye crud, exfoliation, used loofahs, dirty pants, nursing bras, used condoms, hair brushes, nail brushes, dry skin flakes, faeces…if they’re going to start burying all the human cells we cast off, we’re all going to be living in a single 10 megametre tower in the centre of a worldwide cemetery in ten years.
I call a window seat (stamped it, locked it to infinity to the googolplexth power, no erasies or take backs, void where prohibited).
Uh oh. The deceased have notoriously ineffective immune systems.
“They sent a virus into Heaven”
And since angels are arguably of sub-pinhead size this is really really bad.
Well, yeah, since whooping cough is caused by a bacterium, not a virus. But herpes would work.
CaitieCat @15:
You *like* the view of the worldwide cemetary?
Naked Bunny @16:
I just got an image of a zombie calling in to work sick.
Does this mean that Peggy Lee’s “Fever” has officially become a hymn?
And so the service was held on Thursday May 2, 2013 – the same day Sister’s mother was buried miles and miles away.
This damn hypersentimental nun skipped her own mother’s funeral – a time when she could, hypothetically, have reunited with and supported the grieving members of her real-life family – for a cheap political stunt that could have happened any time?!?? Some people really should spend their entire lives in cloistered seclusion for the betterment of humanity.
when I was a child I was taught about limbo for souls that dies and had not been saved by jesus because they never got the chance to for instance hear of him like babies I would bet that these Catholics still believe in limbo.
childish magical thinking indeed.
uncle frogy
In the sense of directly promoting wars, abuse of women. children, and people not like Them, collecting tithes from those who can’t afford it, sabotaging education, equality, civil discourse, and rehabilitation, and so on, yer right. However, this absurdity is still consuming scarce resources.
Which is bad enough. But it gets worse. The resource-destroying ridiculousness is paid for with those (or probably additional) tithes, and has an distinct potential to indirectly promote wars, abuse, more tithing, less education, and so on, at least in part due to the not-inconsiderable influence this woo-mongers have on the legislature and courts.
Perhaps we should all carry Unggue Pots for our snot and fingernail clippings as well, lest they lack a proper burial.
Iyeska
Except he doesn’t call them home, because you need to be baptised to get into heaven. So these ‘babies’ get screwed over twice. Yes, the catholic fate is that evil.
Tony @19, of course I’d prefer the view of the cemetery. It’s got to be preferable to all of humanity collecting their every shed cell for Catholic burial. Just imagine the collection programming needed!
anteprepro,
Depends. Is God an antivaccer?
Oh, and in case anyone wants to see the original article
http://www.cogforlife.org/2013/08/19/baby-victor/
Zenlike:
Yes, I grew up Catholic, and was taught the old school doctrine. Somewhere along the line, people got upset about innocent little babies hanging about in limbo, so that was changed. I don’t keep up with Catholicism anymore (haven’t for a long time), but a majority of Catholics now believe that God the Monster lets all the little babies into heaven now.
She/it/they/he created viruses but not vaccines, so probably.
Saad:
Definitely. What does God need with a sharps tip?
Iyeska:
Well, Heaven does need a food source. What else are they gonna eat? Dogs!?
That’s why people are roasted in Hades, the Restaurant at the Other End.
I favor sending the zombie virus.
Mello Monkey@25
You should be anyway. If an enemy gets your fingernail clippings or such not, it makes their sympathetic magic attacks much stronger. Not sure how that compares to having your true name.
It’s a baby. A homeopathic baby.
Alverant @3
And how many dead angels will it take before “President” Yahweh finally closes the Pearly Gates?!
The only logical conclusion is that He’s intentionally letting in diseased souls to try to kill Real Heavenly Patriots!
AstroLad,
How would you tell who’s infected by the virus and who’s just really religious?
The Japanese beat them to it a long time ago with mizuko kuyo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizuko_kuy%C5%8D
I had an feeling in my head when I read this post and the related article. That feeling was similar to the one I got when I watched the Rifftrax version of the Star Wars Christmas special. Culture can do some downright ridiculous and astonishing things.
Actually, there are now rituals and buryial for miscarried fetuses, at least in Germany. The people who suffered them had to fight for them, because they wanted and needed a place and a time to say goodbye*. Same with stillbirths: It wasn’t catholic nuns that fought for the recognition of those births as, well, births, but it was the parents who had to first say goodbye to their dream and who then had to understand that the remains would be disposed of with the rest of the organic waste.
So fuck those nuns for yet again ignoring the actual suffering of real people over the imagined suffering of cell cultures.
*Just for the record: I personally didn’t give a shit. If science could have used the remains, I’d have been glad to donate. But I understand the people who care.
Just an anecdote, but my brother and sister-in-law actually had a service for their dead, named fetus. Me and my SO were rightly grossed out, but even more so when they reimpregnated within six weeks. People. A fetus is not a person.
Thinking twice about my comment in 39, “ridiculous and astonishing” are an “and/or” thing and I should have included at least one more modifier. I try to respect hopeful mothers, family and some others that that are emotionally connected to fetuses. That “other” category contains people worth distinguishing better.
=8)-DX
Knock it off, seriously.
It’s not your place to tell them how to react to a miscarriage. You may be “grossed out” at their way to deal with their loss, but it’s not your fucking place. You also need to make up your mind: Either the miscarriage is just a fact of nature in which case a service, funeral, whatever is totally over the top, or getting pregnant again quickly is becxause the fetus is oh so important.
So, what’s your approved period of time until people are kindly allowed to get pregnant again without you being grossed out. I just want to know if I meet it or if the existence of my daughter is a permanent offense to your sensitive feelings.
That’s what lots of people believe, probably including most Catholics; but all Pope Palpatine actually said was “there are reasons for prayerful hope” that limbo is empty or, IIRC, might not exist.
He couldn’t come out and just say it doesn’t exist. Because that would have meant there’s a way to salvation outside the church, and that mustn’t be. Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
the only people qualified to deliver a virus to heaven are will smith and jeff goldblum.
Giliell @ 40
We’ve had two such burials in my family. One was far enough along to just barely count as a stillbirth, the other a few weeks earlier that. The parents grieved, because they were wanted pregnancies, while also being pro-choice and not overly attached to fetuses in general. And in both cases, these were atheist burials.
They grieved the potential that they had lost and the idea that they had loved and the actual physical pain and threat to life the mothers experienced. Ritual helped them through this pain, by marking it and recognizing it as something real they’d experienced. Is that so terrible, =8)-DX?
DO NOT:
1. Tell anyone how you’re grossed out by their grieving rituals.
2. Assume you know better than someone else how they should feel about a wanted pregnancy.
3. Become so callous you never realize that for those who desperately wanted a child, a miscarriage is a death of their future hopes.
4. Assume your WASPY, neurotic, contemporary US attitudes toward death and dead bodies are “normal”, or universal. They are not. Your great-ancestors took fucking portraits of the dead and you would have too and you would not have found it weird at all.
For some families, bringing the dead fetus (or “baby”; the parents GET to call it a baby and you have no say in that) home for a few days or participating in the washing, winding, and burial of the baby is enormously comforting.
If you die of small pox in heaven, do you go to Meta-Heaven?
I understand that Catholic theologians have already definitively concluded that masturbation is a grave evil. Have they offered any thoughtful commentary on whether one compounds the sin by laundering or [gasp!] burning a cum rag?
Years ago I saw a joke that poked fun at the emotional arguments used by those who say life begins at conception. The cartoon showed a doctor standing beside a huge whiteboard with black dot right in the middle. The doctor is saying, “Here is the zygote. Let’s call him Timmy…“
Sounds like the censored Doonesbury storyline mocking Silent Scream (sorry, no italics on tablet).
#41,
A fetus may not be a person but your brother and sister in law certainly are. What a shitty way to treat them during their grief.
@52, Koshka
I didn’t see any mention of treatment in post 41.
brianpansky #53,
I suspect you misjudge the grieving process that parents go through when they lose a child ( or a potential child). What people say, or do not say is very important to them. I do not see how someone can hide being ‘rightly grossed out’ for a funeral for a lost wanted pregnancy without never talking about it with the parents. And having a friend or relative not mentioning a lost child is typically a hard thing to overcome.
Maybe in the situation mentioned in #41 the commenter was able to hide their disgust from their brother, or maybe the brother truly didn’t care but this would be an exception.
However commenter #41 can never be sure that their actions, words or lack thereof has not caused harm and this by itself is shitty treatment.
Iyeska 13:
…from which we can only conclude that he loooves abortions and wants us to have more of them.
Giliell 40: In my comment at 7, I was referring to the half of all fertilized eggs that spontaneously abort without the person knowing they were even pregnant. I empathize deeply with those whose very much wanted pregnancies end in the heartbreaking death of a fetus; their hopes and dreams for their family dies with it. They are understandably mourning a loss, and the rituals they choose to process their grief deserve our compassion and respect.
There is a very moving scene in After Tiller where a late term abortion is being performed due to devastating fetal abnormalities incompatible with life: in accordance with the parents’ wishes, the clinic staff secures a tiny coffin for the fetus, and offers them the option of holding the remains and saying goodbye. At all times they are 100% supportive and respectful of the feelings and wishes of their patients, whatever those may be. For those who may not grok it, that is pro-choice.
I believe that the people perpetrating this travesty intended to demonstrate their commitment to the pure ideology of the personhood of fetal cells. Instead, they are the answer to Voltaire’s prayer: “Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.” Anyone truly this concerned about their DNA would indeed be holding funerals for hair follicles.
Closeted at #35 wins the thread.
iris
No worries, I took your comment the way it was meant.