Despite the fact that the scientific evidence supports their innocence, the kangaroo court in Libya has found the six medical workers guilty of intentionally infecting children with AIDS. The mob, at least, is happy.
“For the second time, justice has spoken out with a ruling against those criminals and the punishment they deserve, because they violated their obligations and sold their consciences to the devil,” Abdullah Maghrebi, the father of one infected child, told the BBC.
I can sympathize with a father with a sick child, but in this case, may he continue to live in his devil-haunted world, and may no modern medical care ever come again to his entire pariah nation. No medicine, no vaccinations, no surgeons—leeches and lancets and the usual contrivances of the pre-eighteenth century world should be all they get. That is my curse on Libya. The sad thing is that many of these deluded fools would consider it a blessing.
Makes me so mad!!!!!
god damned Libyan rednecks.
CNN Story
The sentence was passed this morning. Death.
The father, instead of placing the blame on what actually killed his child, has not only permitted the faulty system to go unrecognized and thus unchanged, but has accepted the deaths of six innocent people instead of justice.
Sympathetic? Why? He can burn with all the rest.
Well, if they got rid of that rather unfunny joke Qadhafi, I’m sure it wouldn’t be that bad…
Well, if they got rid of that rather unfunny joke Qadhafi, I’m sure it wouldn’t be that bad…
Morons, utter fucking morons.
I’m foamin’ at the mouth.
Moronic fucking bastards.
Is it only a coincidence that the only creationist in our biology department here is a Libyan?
It’s interesting that he won’t eat pork…but drinking beer (to excess) seems OK.
Can one pick and choose dogmas?
Unfortunately, I dont think this ruling will only hurt humanitarian efforts in Libya. Whats to stop this from happening anywhere else, too? How did the international community help the Tripoli Six? How would they help me if I got caught up in a situation like this in, say, Zambia?
This wont just hurt Libya. Im going to go throw up now.
Gaddafi wants something.
He’ll probably “pardon” them at the last possible moment, for some (as-yet-unspecified) payoff.
Probably best if we all focus our energies in getting the Six out of there and letting Libya rot. Might as well save the people sensible enough and let the rest find out the hard way. Harsh, but it’s the only thing we can really do until somebody over there gets a functioning brain.
Hopefully, the common sense of health care practitioners.
There are people living in Third World conditions right here in the middle of the US. There’s no need to travel across the globe and risk being falsely imprisoned and executed in some Third World manure pile when you can deliver quality health care to the poor and desperate right here in this Third World manure pile.
Behold islam, the religion of peace and reason.
Why didn’t I think of this much earlier! It’s pretty obvious.
Why didn’t I think of this much earlier! It’s pretty obvious.
May I remind you that Libya is not, in any way, a democracy? It’s quite possible that the majority of the Libyan people don’t support this idiocy at all. Even if a majority do, it’s very likely that *some* don’t, and may be unable to disassociate themselves from the rest of the country by emigration.
For that matter, if you yourself haven’t yet left the U.S., think about what you’re similarly associated with. The idiots deserve whatever they get, but don’t tar the whole country with that brush. Since I want to deny responsibility for the actions of an antidemocratic tinpot dictator I didn’t vote for, I have to extend the same courtesy to others.
You can risk being falsely imprisoned and tortured here, too. Well, you won’t be tortured *here*, but you’ll be siezed here and tortured somewhere else, which is almost as good.
Some days it’s hard to tell this country from a banana republic, anymore.
Well, technically, Libya is governed according to Qaddafi’s “Third Universal Theory” as detailed in his “Green Book” — it’s not just Islam — it’s worse — it’s a bizarre mixture of Islam and Marxism.
Well said, Chris. The poor masses don’t deserve to “rot” any more than all of us in the US deserve to be demonized for torturing so-called terrorists.
This is an abomination though. I’d support a surgical military operation to get these people out of there, but damn… the consequences of such an effort. If we hadn’t blown all international good will and understanding with the rest of the western world by our actions in the Middle East, we could probably have afforded to blow some karma by attempting such a rescue. As it stands now, the USA is the last country that needs to be doing something like that.
Perhaps the French might feel an obligation to rescue these people from the hands of the savages?
G. Tingey,
He’s already done that, and Bulgaria refused to ante up. He called it “compensation for the victims”. It was to the tune of like half a bil or some ridiculous amount like that.
In fact, wikipedia is saying it’s more.
“Although he concurred with the guilty verdict, Gaddafi had proposed releasing the six medics if, in return, the Pan Am Flight 103 bomber Megrahi, serving a life sentence in a Scottish jail, were to be released and $5.7 billion compensation were paid to Libya for the care of the HIV-infected patients. Bulgaria refused, on the grounds that it would be admitting the guilt of the medics.”
Sure enough they won’t get any modern medicine there. What volunteer will set foot in their country?
Expect Lybia to become the repository of all the diseases we couquer everywhere else.
“Although he concurred with the guilty verdict, Gaddafi had proposed releasing the six medics if, in return, the Pan Am Flight 103 bomber Megrahi, serving a life sentence in a Scottish jail, were to be released and $5.7 billion compensation were paid to Libya for the care of the HIV-infected patients. Bulgaria refused, on the grounds that it would be admitting the guilt of the medics.”
That’s just terrible. Gaddafi, you are sick. Offering to let people live if you get paid off. My faith in humanity is just about nil these days. Stories like this are so disheartening.
Yes, I always thought that famous one-liner by Joseph de Maistre, “Every country has the government it deserves”, was just a little too smug and self-serving. I can’t think of a reasonable example of a despot whose rise to power can be simply chalked up to a localized overabundance of assholes…
It might feel good to collectively point the finger at a particular nation and say “the people deserve all the misery they get”, but I think it’s lazy and ignorant to do so. In the case of Libya, the Tripoli six incident is going to have a chilling effect on foreign healthcare workers volunteering in this country. In such a closed society, this is not a good thing. I don’t see how the Libyan people deserve to be yolked with such a dysfunctional healthcare system, much less such a regime.
Gaddafi had proposed releasing the six medics if, in return, the Pan Am Flight 103 bomber Megrahi, serving a life sentence in a Scottish jail, were to be released
It’s quite a compliment to Scotland that he expects the Scottish authorities to care more about the lives of Bulgarians than he cares about the lives of Libyans.
This is precisely what will happen to the US if the religious fuckwits here have their say.
Speaking of irresponsible despots and crumbling healthcare infrastructure, retro-crazed Turkmenbashi is single-handedly bringing back the bubonic plague by making his country an unchecked breeding ground for infectious diseases. Check out the following:
Wonderful thread, PZ. Once again, look at what you have spawned.
I’m not sure that all Americans disagree with this ruling. After all, the defense argument says that the HIV strains were ‘evolving’, which is just a theory! I.D. advocates and Libyans alike reject the evidence.
Anyway, screw Qaddafi.
I typically loathe the use of military force, but in this case I think the EU would be justified in using it. These health care workers are absolutely innocent, and I don’t think that Belgium should have to sit back and watch a pack of backwards barbarians execute them. If Libya insists on executing them, I would not see much wrong with Belgium or the EU acting to free them by force.
They’re Bulgarians.
Just FYI.
Yes, you’re right. Saw this story on CNN international a bit ago and I swear the screen text identified them as Belgian. Nevertheless, I stand corrected on the nationality.
It is not unusual for foreigners to be scapegoated by the legal systems of despotic regimes.
In 1996 two British nurses, Deborah Parry and Lucille McLauchlan, were accused of murder by the Saudi government, tortured, sexually abused, and threatened with crucifixion. (George Galloway took the Saudis’ side in the matter and after their release attempted to prevent the nurses from practicing in the United Kingdom.)
A Canadian man, William Sampson, was arrested in 2000 and then tortured and raped in a Saudi jail on trumped-up charges of terrorism. He later wrote a book about his ordeal (‘Confessions of an Innocent Man’).
Just a recommendation, try BBC News International, they tend to be a little less biased…as far as western media goes.
I’ve written to the Canadian prime minister asking that Canada add its voice to calls for this sentence to be suspended and a fair trial held. Not hopeful that this will make much difference, but worth trying at least.
Yes, it is fairly obvious that it is a negotiating ploy, I think that unfortunately most Westerners simply do not understand Arab culture enough to comprehend the haggling process:
Libya: “Your people have poisoned our children, give us $10mil per child or we will kill them”
Bulgaria: “Our nurses are innocent. We cannot afford that, but as we are worried about the plight of these children, who cannot afford their own medical care, we can cough up $5mil total.”
L: “Is no good, these are evil people and we will shoot them tomorrow.”
B: “Wait, let’s see what the Americans can offer.”
L: “Pah, we will not accept the Great Satan’s blood money.”
B: “The Americans are offering $50mil to build a new hospital, and another $500mil over the next decade for physician training”
L: “Your nurses will be on the next flight to Bulgaria”
…
And right now, the Libyans are wondering why the Bulgarians are trying to play hardball by not paying the ransom, and the Bulgarians are wondering why the Libyans are such monsters to threaten to execute their nurses, because neither side understands the other.
(Oh, and as I mentioned on Orac’s blog, “Abdullah Maghrebi” is an obvious pseudonym…quite a clever use of Arabic wordplay, though).
It is not unusual for foreigners to be scapegoated by the legal systems of despotic regimes.
They don’t even have to be all that despotic:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/03/29/murders-fox060329.html
My reading of that case is that it would be bad for tourism if people got the idea they were likely to be knifed by resort staff, so the local cops tried to pass it off on other tourists (who were by then safely out of the country — like, we don’t want to have actual arrests and a trial, cuz we know the case won’t stand up). Of course no one here was buying that, and it blew up in their faces because now it looks like tourists have a choice between being murdered by resort staff, or being framed for it by the local cops.
No where near as horrendous as the other cases cited — but still enough to make one think twice about furrin travel.
“typically loathe the use of military force, but in this case I think the EU would be justified in using it. These health care workers are absolutely innocent, and I don’t think that Belgium should have to sit back and watch a pack of backwards barbarians execute them. If Libya insists on executing them, I would not see much wrong with Belgium or the EU acting to free them by force.”
Forget it. The EU would rather blame Israel for it. And the UN will do nothing about it.
But if ever there was a point where NATO should put a scare into some nation, this is a good one. You simply can’t allow the Belgians and Palestinian to suffer such horendous consequences for putting themselves at risk to help these people. I mean this is beyond ridiculous. One wonders what it takes for the EU to get pissed off.
I posted this just now at PT. I said:
It’s not only that in any given human population there is a surfeit of those who take it upon themselves to explain the mysteries of existence. It is also, and the more sorrowful, that there are exponentially more who will nod sagely and agree. “Two hyperbolic ingredients that irritate the faithful to the point that they will do harm to the infidel from over the hill.
I guess if you couple widespread ignorance of contemporary knowledge, iron-handed state rule, the sense that “we Libyans have only begun so save (read “mimic”) face and must insist that we speak truly,” with the notion that science is merely another political tool like someone else’s life, you can expect this sort of thing. Another entry into the log of things we should have learned to avoid.
The good news is that such people become somewhat more predictable than your basic infidel …”
I’d add that I agree that the decision has come not only from the courts and reflects calculation by the club of intimates that runs this poor demonstration of human civilization the calls it self sovereign against a scrim of destitution. Against the chance of casting the illusion of humanitarianism they place caregivers on the cul-de-sac of execution. Regular people that came to address a woeful situation but apparently didn’t produce results soon enough.
This needs to have a very large finger pointed at it by a lot of people. This should not stand. This is evil.
I find your “curse on Libya” silly. When the case broke out, it was first blamed on poor hospital hygiene, aggravated by the cuts decided by Gaddafi against the city of Benghazi. Afterwards, the Libyan regime has been successful in scapegoating the Six. I see no need to blame ‘the mob’, or all Libyans, for having succumbed to this campaign of distortion.
I guess that ordinary Libyans don’t read Nature, and only get a limited amount of news from abroad. As a matter of fact, the European media have been mostly silent during the months of the trial. Top-level European officials have recently visited Libya discussing of gas, oil and infrastructures to build. The visits were reported on the media, and only the German foreign minister had a word to say on the case. Would you expect Libyans to suspend their beliefs until more evidence is available, when even some of your readers are ready to endorse military action? I mean, what do these readers think of international law?
The verdict is appalling, and the Six must be saved. Nonetheless, I also care for the innocent Libyans who are victims of their oppressive regime. They deserve justice as well.
What will motivate the Libyans to overthrow their oppressors if they’re not actually oppressed – if they continue to receive quality health care, for example?
If there are any Americans expressing outrage for this here, you’re being F-ING HYPOCRITES! Everything the Libyan court has done is perfectly legal under U.S. military law – the indefinite detention, the confession under torture, the barring of exculpatory evidence. Heck, the whole POINT of Guantanamo was to deny accused terrorists (bioterrorists in this case) basic human rights and the ability to defend themselves in court. Because the charges are so terrible, they don’t deserve a fair trial, or something. After all – won’t someone PLEASE think of the children?!
Yeah, dam hypocrites, the lot of you.
Geez. Take a breath, oh Honored Citizen of Our Respected Neighbor to the North. Many of the people posting here do consistently object to the improprieties you cite. However, many Americans were blinded by 9/11, and though the blinders are starting to come off, the sheer volume of misguided or immoral policies implemented under the Bush administration will take some time to identify and to undo.
And I humbly suggest if you want to say “fucking” at least show some spine and type the whole damn word, hmmm? If you’re not comfortable typing “fucking” then do what I do: don’t say it. Find another word. It’s not that hard.
– Украинка-Американка
Well, Ms. or Mrs. Ukranian-American, I apologize for my contracted obscenity, it’s my personal preference. I hope the venom was not lessened by the omission.
I don’t really see how “blinded by 9/11” mitigates the enormous crime being comitted in the US, any more than “blinded by the brutal murders of our children by bioterrorists” exculpates those Libyans cheering on for an execution.
Who do you think “the rest” that the Libyans will be burning with are?
No one can pardon such an enemy of humanity.
No one can pardon such an enemy of humanity.
Bite me, a Canadian citizen.
Everything you describe was designed by the Bush White House to circumvent our justice system and to avoid the intervention of honest Americans. And only a dwindling minority of Americans support the son-of-a-bitch.
Seriously, Big Talker From the North, if you’ve got some feasible plan to free these people, we’d all love to hear it.
I admit it is somehow easier to be outraged by something happening halfway across the world that it is to be outraged by things happening right under our noses. However, that doesn’t make it wrong – or hypocritical – to be outraged by foreign events, particularly when expressed by people who also object to the misdeeds perpetrated by the US government ostensibly in our name. That was the point of my post, explicitly stated, that in your own blind outrage you ignored completely, Mr. or Ms. Canadian Citizen.
You’re not wrong to point these things out, but are you, by your own standards, hypocritical by not prefacing your outrage at America with a litaty of what is also wrong with your own country?
Also, your analogy is imperfect. 9/11 happened. “Brutal murder by bioterrorists” did not. The Lybians are outraged over a fiction. Americans are outraged (and some are willing to allow the governemt to cross lines that should n to be crossed) over a very real attack on our home soil.
sigh… make that “litany” and “should not be crossed”, and “government” …
Me the bad editor!
I linked to your article from Libya sentences medics to death – and that’s a good thing
they will not get away with it.
If they do this thing, they will be made to pay, by a much higher power than they can ever imagine.
um, yeah I agree that this is a good site for any people who are using it.