People are so nice.
Ed Brayton is not the person I was hoping to hear was leaving Freethoughtblogs.com. I can certainly understand why, though.
Update: adding a poignant public post from a network colleague:
[Personal problems blah blah] I know there’s some shit going down on our blog network that I need to address, and I will once I’ve found enough spoons. I know a lot of my readers are hurting right now. Please let me know if there’s anything in particular you need me to do to help you. Unless you want me to join Ophelia’s pity party. That I cannot do.
This isn’t a pity party I’m having. It’s a disgust party.
Judging from the reasons Ed has said are why he’s leaving, it’s because of people like Chris Hall.
They’re certainly why I’m leaving!
Why does everyone from ftb go to patheos? I don’t like that website, so I won’t be reading him anymore.
It pays 3 times as much.
But Ed says it’s not about the money! So that can’t be it.
Hang in there, Ophelia.
I don’t often comment. But you can count me as a semi-hidden supporter.
Bloody hell. Chris Hall sounds just like the very worst Christian sermon: one which takes some hum-drum life situation, and then instead of making a tangible moral point, concludes with “and that’s a bit like Jesus, you know.”
Instead here everything has to be used as an excuse to make it about Ophelia.
Next step — “Nope, it’s definitely not about Ophelia, in fact I’d never even heard about Ophelia until I spontaneously decided to recite the mantra which we’re all reciting, completely spontaneously”
Erica – well if you’re asking specifically why Ed left, he explains that in a post.
The money is why he went to Patheos rather than setting up his own blog, I should think.
I’m glad Ophelia is leaving FTB because:
1. She wants to.
There’s no doubt that FTB will be poorer for it but I for one am looking forward to whatever she decides to do next. I know I’m not alone.
I personally am a strong advocate of leaving things.
I leave things routinely. You might say habitually.
Some therapists have told me that this is an issue I should address. That’s usually a sign it’s time to leave that therapist.
I think periodic reboots are good. I’ve noticed that people who don’t do them typically end up with all kinds of baggage like mortgages, garages so full the car won’t fit in, children and all kinds of nasty shit like that.
I’m also good at burning bridges, so if you ever need to borrow some gasoline…
I used to really like participating in Dan Fincke’s blog when it was here, and was rather upset when he moved there (for the money, which is fair enough).
Leaving aside the platform itself, from Wikipedia:
Jafafa – I am too, very much so.
The one exception is this job / living situation I have, which is so ideal I’ll never leave it until they throw me out. Its major benefit? Right now I can lift my eyes from the screen and look out at Puget Sound dotted with sailboats, and mountains clouds and sky. Not leaving that.
I hadn’t heard of Dana Hunter before this post so I read a couple of her blog posts and a few comments.
One of the commenters (a detractor of yours elsewhere) is concerned about whether it is cultural appropriation to eat a Doner Kebab.
You’re best off away from such silliness. Ophelia. And to be free of those ghastly ads as well. Good luck back at the original B&W.
Re the update. “[A] lot of my readers are hurting right now” because, I assume, someone put a gun to their head and forced them to come to Ophelia’s blog and read her words and then track down all of the Facebook groups in which she participates and read every comment there to see if she liked it, or failed to disagree with it.
But complaining about people who are smearing you is a “pity party.” Yeesh. Considering that about half of Dana’s infrequent posts over the last several months are about her personal problems of one type or another — not to mention the very tweet you quote — that’s one hell of a glass house she’s occupying.
(Note: yes, people can blog as frequently or infrequently as they like. And about whatever topics they like. But if you’re going to start poking at someone else for throwing a “pity party,” be prepared to have that standard thrown back at you.)
As an Italian, I know that I feel personally offended every time a mangia-cake has pasta or pizza. You culturally appropriative bastards!
Seriously though, I’m glad I’m not a blogger. This sucks. People say shitty things about you and it’s a pity party if you respond? Well, fuck that.
I wish I were an old potato. I’d have so many more eyes to roll.
I am the inventor of marshmallow parmesan… and that is just one of my crimes against humanity.
I didn’t read Ed much. Sporadically. Rarely regretted it when I did, though. He seemed like nice people, much as I recall. Hope he’ll be happy.
Now I understand it’s de rigueur I should take a swipe at someone else in saying goodbye to him, though, right? Because… Umm… Perhaps this is what Ed would have wanted?
Oooo! I want my funeral to be like that! Everyone ripping everyone else up. Eulogies all starting: ‘I’m sad he’s gone… But all the rest of you are assholes!’ That would just be awesome!
(/Anyway, re picking someone out to rip on, geez… I’m not sure… Can you leave it with me? I mean, sure, I hate a lot of people, but I’ll have to choose someone worthy of such an honour. I expect Ed’s only leaving the once.)
🙂
My main issue with Patheos is that they use Disqus, which is an absolutely horrible Javascript-heavy commenting system that causes my browser to slowly grind to a halt when I let it. (I run with NoScript, so I don’t usually let it.)
That said, I read Slacktivist over there, and have followed him since before he moved to Patheos. I just don’t read the comments anymore because my browser runs much more smoothly with scripting turned off there.
As for here, well, I used to read Dana’s blog, having grown up near Mt. St. Helens, but after that sort of stupid crack, I’m feeling a bit less charitable.
Which will leave Pharyngula as the only blog here I still read regularly. I just don’t usually go too deep into the comments.
My attempts at blogging haven’t amounted to much and didn’t generate an audience. At one time, I aspired to have a blog on FTB. Now I wouldn’t want one (without a housecleaning first).
Some FTB writers are still worth reading and commenting on (e.g. Myers, Singham, a few others) but some actively jump to conclusions and try to read the worst possible intent into anything said. They’re looking for conflict, to express sanctimony and for ego boosts (not going to name names). I don’t read or comment on many blogs for that reason, though there are some I read without comment because I have nothing to add or rarely do (e.g. Taslima Nasreen, Aron Ra, others).
I neither know nor care who Chris Hall is, but I am disappointed in Dana. Not that she or anyone else should care about my feels of course. Still, I enjoyed much of her writing (especially on geology and feminism) Oddly I found her weaker on atheism. However, I digress.
Today has sadly seen a significant implosion on FTB, which is a real loss I think. It’s not that good voices are being lost, just that the dispersal weakens the impact of the overall message. I’ll be reading you at your new/old home and will scrape some pennies together.
Sadly my reading list at FTB is going to be significantly reduced, not just by the departures of you and Ed, but by the fact that several Blogs I used to read on a ranging from several times a week to at least occasionally have turned into spaces I no longer want to venture. I guess I’ll see how the remainder fare over time.
Oh, and Patheos sucks as a portal
Rob, Chris used to blog here as “The Uncredible Hallq”, now at Patheos.
What the ever loving fuck is happening?
I just don’t even understand this. I like Ed’s blog. I like Dana’s. And I like Ophelia’s.
I wish you all the best but all this bullshit is bullshit. And no, the frequent burning of bridges is not fucking good general advice. That is shit advice.
Do not purge thyself of bridges always! Bad idea!
and leftover:
Speak for yourself. I think almost all of them are worth reading .
Also who the fuck is Chris Hall and why does he even matter? Fucking grr. Nevermind.
Oh! I’d forgotten. Didn’t like him.
Ya know, I was in Dana’s position last year about this time, ending a relationship and everything, and I’m pretty sure I also took the opportunity to insult a third party that had nothing to do with my sadness. Lemme check:
Wow, looks like I didn’t. I guess Dana’s just classier than me.
I’ve found Nosy’s associations with bigots problematic for some time.
Nope – y’all are thinking of Chris Hallquist, aka Uncredilbe Halq. Chris Hall is Greta Christina’s collaborator in Godless Pervert’s Social Club, and a frequent player in various internet and SF Bay Area “activist” dramas.
I’m supposing that you and I might have crossed some significantly different bridges. 😉
Umm, no, that’s an intentional oversimplification (to the point of misrepresentation) of what they actually said. Here’s the relevant part of the comment:
Arthur, Do think people wanting the cultural products of another culture, while at the same time having disdain for the actual people of that culture, isn’t problematic? Because you make it seem that you think that someone discussing the issue makes them worthy of mockery and dismissal.
Rob @ 23 – If you mean “I will scrape some pennies together” literally please don’t. I want only people for whom it’s painless to do it! Really!! I said that in the text of the Patreon thing.
SC, considering that Nosy now lives with a hipster racist who thinks his status as a gay man in West Hollywood makes everything he says ironic, me too.
Me too.
Dana? Ed? Chris?
I feel as if I’ve been dropped into the middle of a long story arc in a soap-opera I’ve never heard of. And I’ve been following Butterflies… pretty steadily for about 6 years.
Well now you’ll be able to follow the old-style Butterflies again, with no colleagues and no colleague-bonfires.
Now you’ll be on your own for the autos-da-fe!
Stephanie “Never Met a Public Denunciation Campaign She Didn’t Want to Enthusiastically Join” Zvan.
Oh, and get ready for it, SC (Salty Current) @39. Over on Twitter they are queuing PZ up for the next public denunciation campaign. It would be thrilling to watch if it weren’t so horrific.
This is a cross post from Jason’s blog:
I’m trying to think about how to say this without offending anyone. First of all, it is always important to support people who are transgender. That being said, I’m disappointed in all the conflict. The bloggers (and ex-bloggers) at FTB all have similar values that I was hoping everyone could see they are allies rather than enemies.
I’m going to put on my psychoanalyst hat on now: Part of this conflict may be a reaction to Ed Brayton leaving. It is not the cause but likely fueled more emotion. One can understand why he needed to leave but can also feel angry with him. Because it is not acceptable to express anger with Brayton, it gets displaced onto others.
Now I’m going to put on my supportive therapist hat on: I would suggest everyone take a breather. People have good reasons to feel hurt and angry but those emotions can also make communication difficult. Sometimes it is better to put aside these emotions when you try to convince someone of your point of view.
Now I will shut up. People who give advice are really annoying.
I would cross post this on Ophelia Benson’s blog but she is not here. I may do so at her new blog. Hopefully you all can see each other as allies eventually.
In any case, sometimes a divorce is a good thing even though I’m annoyed my 3 favorite bloggers (Ed Brayton, Ophelia Benson and PZ Myers) are on different sites. Damn my first world problems
Curiousa, you’re right. I shouldn’t rely on my internal memory! 😐
The Chris Hall post is friends only btw – if you didn’t notice.
tonyinbatavia/#40:
I clearly totally missed yet another potential dot com business opportunity. There should be service especially for this. Shunner or something…
(/Just think: I could be a pioneer in the emerging sector of antisocial media.)
Melby @ 43 – It was on Ed’s wall.
SC (Salty Current) (#39) –
No kidding, as I’ve just seen myself.
I hear it said once:
This place is turning into a room full of spiders, all turning on each other.
@ 39 – that Stephanie Zvan post – jeezis.
Ophelia, haters gonna hate, as the saying goes. But can anyone genuinely say that about Stephanie’s post? Heina, Dana and Jason have also all weighed in (more in sorrow than anger in my opinion), and i understand how that can seem like a pile-on. But it might be worth reflecting privately on what’s being said. Ask yourself if they have been waiting all this time to have an excuse to pounce and are now having a good old gloat. Seems unlikely, doesn’t it? Okay, so they weren’t very collegiate. But it seems to me that FtB doesn’t tend do the reflexive closing ranks thing. So isn’t it more likely they did see fault, either in the behaviours or the follow-up and spoke out honestly? Your lashing out at them, whilst understandable, is not useful. I suggest it’s time to take a pause, try and see what you might learn, and then see how those burned bridges can be reconstructed.
In the immortal words of SC, I wish I was an old potato so that I’d have more eyes to roll.
“What Is a Blogger To Do?” Since”not engage in the pile-on” isn’t an option, I guess there is nothing to do but write a self-righteous, passive-aggressive post. Make sure it’s a long one.
Zvan:
I continue to be stunned by what the situation has become. If you can’t start or join a campaign of public denunciation and shaming, you simply can’t imagine how to behave. Public denunciation is the sole arrow in your quiver. I can think of so many other ways you could respond to (what you regard as) someone’s bad behavior. They’re all suited to different situations, relationships, and goals. Sometimes public denunciation is the right response, but the choice to respond in that way should be carefully considered. One thing that everyone should remember is that wanting people to submit to your demands that they apologize or feel ashamed or change their behavior is not the only possible goal in every situation. So there’s no point in “I tried that and it didn’t work!” – there are many different definitions of “work” that don’t involve an admission of guilt and promise to reform on the part of the alleged wrongdoer.
You can comment on their blog (or FB wall or wherever), taking issue with things they’ve written that you think are harmful. You can express your feelings and concerns to them privately through any number of media, and treat them fairly if they respond. If they ignore you or are hostile, you can call them a jerk. You can say you still consider someone a friend or colleague even if you disagree with them on any number of important subjects. Or, you can break off ties with them. You can stop reading and promoting their work. You can take them off your feed and blogroll. You can unfriend or block or whatever them on Facebook. You can block them on Twitter (and no, I don’t mean you necessarily have to put them up for a collective blocking or start encouraging everyone else to do the same – I just mean you personally can block them). If they’re a friend or colleague and you feel you owe them an explanation, you can contact them personally and explain that you’re ending your association for reasons X and Y. You can then proceed to ignore them, and if people ask about it, you can explain or not as you see fit.
Seriously – you don’t have to prosecute them or compile public dossiers of their every word or action that you dislike. You don’t have to blow the reach and effects of their words out of all proportion. You really don’t. The only reason to do this is that you’ve already adopted the prosecutorial, denunciatory approach and so feel the need to justify it. But that approach, as I’ve said before, is often not appropriate, and it can be counterproductive, cruel, stalkerish, harmful to the person you’re denouncing, a waste of time and effort and emotional energy, built on misinformation or half-truths, unnecessarily escalating, divisive, and a boon to those who seek to manipulate and destroy communities. It also detracts from the efforts to publicly denounce someone’s words or actions in those cases in which it’s genuinely called for.
I have to wonder how these people dealt with these things before the internet.
Or, more pithily, that. 🙂
Gestetner machines and hand-delivery to mailboxes by the dark of night.
.
So I hear.
That was actually funny.
From Stephanie Zvan:
Emphasis added. This is more dishonest overgeneralizing. How, exactly, does critique of a particular model of gender identity, one not shared by all trans people, and denunciation of a very specific group of people, trans and not, who are lashing out at one individual over that critique, come to equal labeling all trans people as bullies whenever they advocate for themselves? What of the trans people who agree with Ophelia and disagree with Zvan? Why do supposed allies (and sometimes members) of an oppressed group so often do the same racist/sexist/heterosexist/cissexst/etc. homogenizing of the group in question that they decry as racist/sexist/heterosexist/cissexst/etc. when others do it, resulting in one subset of the group in question being presumed to speak for the entire group?
I really, REALLY wish all of these folks would pick up a copy of David Valentine’s Imagining Transgender: An Ethnography of a Category. With its myriad of self-conceptions of people who consider themselves transgender, not-cisgender, genderqueer, contextually gendered, “gay” (in the sense that I might use “queer”), etc., I think it would do so much to disabuse them of what I’m reading as their homogenizing notions concerning both trans people and sex/gender/sexuality generally.