Not exactly irrelevance, I think – she’s popular, anti-feminism is popular, sexism is popular, misogyny is popular, people like Penn Jillette and even Jaclyn Glenn are popular. They may be doing the right thing in terms of pure numbers. In terms of quality, though, I think they’re doing the entirely wrong thing.
UnknownEric the Apostatesays
I can’t necessarily figure out their endgame.
1. Be obnoxious
2. Gain lots of obnoxious followers
3. ????
4. Bring down theism everywhere!
I mean, putting some benches in Florida and complaining about crosses on public land are okay, but when they’re pretty much THE ONLY THING YOU DO…
UnknownEric the Apostate, I’m guessing there’s $$$$$ in there some where.
…there always is.
A. Noydsays
I know it’s beside the point, but that ad has such a horrible layout.
funknjunksays
Well, as far as I can figure it, there are two obvious possibilities: 1) There’s a calculus to embracing anti-feminism 2) The secular/atheist “leadership” is simply vehemently anti-feminist. Not sure what the calculus would be; maybe there is a mass of support which would disappear if the movement were openly supportive of feminism and the goals that have been espoused over the last 2 or 3 years by some in the passionate conversation that has occurred? “Leaders” are certainly not concerned about the loss of the pro-feminism (for lack of a better term) voices and labor. I just think that most of the people considered leaders in the movement are sexist dude-bro sympathetic schmucks at this point. It’s been an eye-opening and saddening experience, but that’s what I believe now. Doesn’t make me want to join in, that’s for sure….
Al Dentesays
A. Noyd @7
Badly composed billboards and other ads are one of AA’s trademarks. It’s my belief that Silverman automatically rejects any ad that looks almost professional. “No, that’s too good looking, make it more cluttered and difficult to read, also the background color should be babyshit yellow or something equally obnoxious.”
I guess what it is, is that we keep making a fundamental error when thinking about these groups. American Atheists is NOT a civil liberties organization devoted to making real and positive change in American society or government. American Atheists is a ego-stroking club/cash grab/tax scheme, designed mainly to collect money to enrich its “leadership” while doing no actual leading or activism whatsoever. If you look at their website, it is pretty obviously a cheat and a scam. 8 tabs on the home page, three of which are ways to give them money.
Menyambalsays
I’m hanging out with an atheist right now. I have two dogs on the bed and some curry on the stove. What do I need those folks for?
The main problem I see with them is their name, that is certainly true outside the US. I have met more than one person who simply assumed American Atheists’ views are those of the majority of American atheists.
A) Be popular with anti-feminist (or more broadly, anti-SJ) atheists.
B) People who aren’t really into religion but who are culturally conservative (sexists, etc.) might find the more non-liberal atheism to be appealing enough to show an interest.
Yeah, i think a lot of organizations are really about feeling important and getting paid for doing something that just amuses oneself for the leadership roles. If they aren’t really doing anything else, it’s just an entertainment sector organization which may or may not also offer some sense of fellowship. Or mutual admiration society. Whatever. Whether they promote atheism as an option or make atheism look less palatable are just side effects.
See Yemisi Ilesanmi’s Nigerian Atheists articles for the bits about looking for funding. It’s a sad hoot.
Wowbagger, Designated Snarkersays
F [i’m not here, i’m gone] wrote:
People who aren’t really into religion but who are culturally conservative (sexists, etc.) might find the more non-liberal atheism to be appealing enough to show an interest.
It’s kind of the mirror-image of liberal theists, who try to appeal to atheists by trumpeting their positive attitudes to social justice. But instead of “Hey, sure we believe in God but we don’t hate gays!” it’s “Hey, we don’t believe in God but we won’t call you out for being a misogynist asshole; that’s A-OK with us!”
palmettobugsays
Dark money poisons everything. I’d bet there is Koch or Cato money exerting influence on several skeptic and atheist orgs. Or at very least, there are other rich jerks exerting influence.
Even if the extended backlash to A+ and elevatorgate hadn’t turned me off of movement skepticism/atheism forever, Jaclyn Glenn’s recent video and Dave Muscato’s dismissal of Courtney Caldwell in favor of ranting know-it-all Penn Jillette would have done it. Seeing the two of them featured on something like this just confirms that I want nothing to do with Atheism/Skepticism as the movements presently exist.
Silentbobsays
Betcha can’t guess who’s the “Secular VIP of the Week” at the Richard Dawkins Foundation.
Silentbobsays
… BTW, how to I upgrade from Steerage to VIP class?
Silentbobsays
… Not that I’m classist or anything. It’s just I’m fond of the complimentary canapes and champagne.
Silentbobsays
… Which we get to enjoy while Richard (pbuh) lectures us on how frightfully horrid it is for women in Islamic countries.
Yeah, AA seems to be going out of its way to chase down and capture irrelevance for itself.
AA seems to be confusing being unapologetically atheist with being abrasively, arrogantly atheist.
Not exactly irrelevance, I think – she’s popular, anti-feminism is popular, sexism is popular, misogyny is popular, people like Penn Jillette and even Jaclyn Glenn are popular. They may be doing the right thing in terms of pure numbers. In terms of quality, though, I think they’re doing the entirely wrong thing.
I can’t necessarily figure out their endgame.
1. Be obnoxious
2. Gain lots of obnoxious followers
3. ????
4. Bring down theism everywhere!
I mean, putting some benches in Florida and complaining about crosses on public land are okay, but when they’re pretty much THE ONLY THING YOU DO…
They also put up racist billboards.
UnknownEric the Apostate, I’m guessing there’s $$$$$ in there some where.
…there always is.
I know it’s beside the point, but that ad has such a horrible layout.
Well, as far as I can figure it, there are two obvious possibilities: 1) There’s a calculus to embracing anti-feminism 2) The secular/atheist “leadership” is simply vehemently anti-feminist. Not sure what the calculus would be; maybe there is a mass of support which would disappear if the movement were openly supportive of feminism and the goals that have been espoused over the last 2 or 3 years by some in the passionate conversation that has occurred? “Leaders” are certainly not concerned about the loss of the pro-feminism (for lack of a better term) voices and labor. I just think that most of the people considered leaders in the movement are sexist dude-bro sympathetic schmucks at this point. It’s been an eye-opening and saddening experience, but that’s what I believe now. Doesn’t make me want to join in, that’s for sure….
A. Noyd @7
Badly composed billboards and other ads are one of AA’s trademarks. It’s my belief that Silverman automatically rejects any ad that looks almost professional. “No, that’s too good looking, make it more cluttered and difficult to read, also the background color should be babyshit yellow or something equally obnoxious.”
I guess what it is, is that we keep making a fundamental error when thinking about these groups. American Atheists is NOT a civil liberties organization devoted to making real and positive change in American society or government. American Atheists is a ego-stroking club/cash grab/tax scheme, designed mainly to collect money to enrich its “leadership” while doing no actual leading or activism whatsoever. If you look at their website, it is pretty obviously a cheat and a scam. 8 tabs on the home page, three of which are ways to give them money.
I’m hanging out with an atheist right now. I have two dogs on the bed and some curry on the stove. What do I need those folks for?
They do seem skeevy.
The main problem I see with them is their name, that is certainly true outside the US. I have met more than one person who simply assumed American Atheists’ views are those of the majority of American atheists.
funkjunk
A) Be popular with anti-feminist (or more broadly, anti-SJ) atheists.
B) People who aren’t really into religion but who are culturally conservative (sexists, etc.) might find the more non-liberal atheism to be appealing enough to show an interest.
Improbable Joe
Yeah, i think a lot of organizations are really about feeling important and getting paid for doing something that just amuses oneself for the leadership roles. If they aren’t really doing anything else, it’s just an entertainment sector organization which may or may not also offer some sense of fellowship. Or mutual admiration society. Whatever. Whether they promote atheism as an option or make atheism look less palatable are just side effects.
See Yemisi Ilesanmi’s Nigerian Atheists articles for the bits about looking for funding. It’s a sad hoot.
F [i’m not here, i’m gone] wrote:
It’s kind of the mirror-image of liberal theists, who try to appeal to atheists by trumpeting their positive attitudes to social justice. But instead of “Hey, sure we believe in God but we don’t hate gays!” it’s “Hey, we don’t believe in God but we won’t call you out for being a misogynist asshole; that’s A-OK with us!”
Dark money poisons everything. I’d bet there is Koch or Cato money exerting influence on several skeptic and atheist orgs. Or at very least, there are other rich jerks exerting influence.
Even if the extended backlash to A+ and elevatorgate hadn’t turned me off of movement skepticism/atheism forever, Jaclyn Glenn’s recent video and Dave Muscato’s dismissal of Courtney Caldwell in favor of ranting know-it-all Penn Jillette would have done it. Seeing the two of them featured on something like this just confirms that I want nothing to do with Atheism/Skepticism as the movements presently exist.
Betcha can’t guess who’s the “Secular VIP of the Week” at the Richard Dawkins Foundation.
… BTW, how to I upgrade from Steerage to VIP class?
… Not that I’m classist or anything. It’s just I’m fond of the complimentary canapes and champagne.
… Which we get to enjoy while Richard (pbuh) lectures us on how frightfully horrid it is for women in Islamic countries.
(… OK, I’ll stop now.)