Oh goody, Soraya Chemaly and David Futrelle were on an NPR talk show – On Point – today to talk about Rodger and misogyny. Before I listen, how about a quick look at the comments…
…uh oh.
Coastghost • 16 hours ago Perhaps Americans have grown too unaccustomed to reading various plays by Aristophanes or certain epigrams by Martial or certain satires by Juvenal, or certain poems by Villon or certain stories by Machiavelli, or certain aphorisms by Schopenhauer or certain stories by Maupassant . . . . perhaps if we had not become so keen to shield our eyes from what vexes or discomfits, we would today be well-equipped to consider familiar themes upon their recurrence.
Perhaps we’ve cultivated overmuch our taste for only the palatable.
Or perhaps contemporary utopian feminism may not be telling us anything wholly true (or actually realistic) about either women or men.
Yeah. Good point. It’s in literature, it’s been around forever, why not just shrug and enjoy it?
Good good good point. Hatred, contempt, dismissal, belittlement, obstacles, violence – those are all good things. It’s utopian to want to change anything. Chill.
I was watching a documentary on R. Crumb this weekend and a couple of women were talking about some of the racism and misogyny in his comics and their comments were countered by white men talking about how critics just aren’t “getting” it. Both of the white men seemed to be arguing that it was not racism/sexism but satire of racism/sexism. One of them was particularly patronizing and chalked it up to silly americans being too dense to understand.
It’s interesting how often people in a privileged group feel entitled to explain to a less advantaged group, what they are allowed to be offended by and how gauche they are for thinking otherwise.
I think Coastghost’s real “point” is that he or she is much, much, much smarter, more sophisticated, and better read than the rest of us, and we should bask in his or her glory, lament that we aren’t all so fabulous, and beg to be granted the benefit of his or her wisdom on the merits of feminism, or any other topic.
Don’t follow the link and read the comments. The MRA and Allied Trades Association is in full rant.
Who’s this “we” this airbag is gassing about?
It’s a good bet Coastghost isn’t vexed or discomfited by any of the familiar themes the hoi polloi are supposedly shielding their eyes from.
It’s a good bet Coastghost wouldn’t know Juvenal from a juvenile delinquent.
Juvenal? Does he mean the Sixth Satire? What?
That’s one of the most skewering attacks on cultural misogyny an ancient author ever penned. It’s essentially exaggerating the fashionable anti-woman sentiments of late first and early second century Imperial Rome to the point where they seem genuinely ridiculous. Has he really cited Juvenal without the understanding that Juvenal is a satirist who created grotesque, obnoxious and self-congratulatory characters to lampoon popular views? Does he really think the comically over-the-top “all women are whores and adulterers and we’d be better off without them” message of Juvenal’s dramatic curmudgeon is a genuine indictment of women, rather than of narrow-minded Roman men? Has he actually studied Juvenal at all?
I expect he thinks Swift was a cannibal apologist and Aristophanes an agitator for female suffrage and the genuine efficacy of sex strikes too…
Yeah, as far as I can tell, gasbag didn’t say anything. Except “ignore feminists”. I don’t what the hell makes (apparently feminists) ill-equipped to “consider” anything. Recurring unpalatable shit is still shit, always was.
Feminists have analyzed the recurring theme of misogyny (and racism, antisemitism,…) in great detail.
“Or perhaps contemporary utopian feminism may not be telling us anything wholly true (or actually realistic) about either women or men.”
They are always so vague. Why do men think they know what a woman’s “true nature” is and why does it take so much effort on their part, the threats, the denial and violence, to get women to follow their “true nature”?
Gasbag’s is not be telling us anything wholly true except showing how to make a ten-dollar word salad.
Apart from the comments, which were mostly execrable, I was pretty disappointed with the segment. The first 30 minutes were dominated by the male interviewer waffling between talking honestly about how uncomfortable it made him feel to be implicated in societal misogyny, and pretending to be an unaffected, objective host. And Soraya was the only woman in the entire segment. Fortunately the callers towards the end of the hour rescued the whole thing from awfulness.
Well, and when Dave Futrelle came on, the host seemed to be trying to get him to agree that, essentially, Soraya was extreme. Dave seemed both surprised and confused by this, and I only wish he could’ve been better prepared to just say “everything Soraya just said, and more” and then move on to other points. And had the host been able to get past his own squirminess*, a lot more could’ve been said. Instead, there were a lot of “yes, but do you really think it’s that bad” sort of comments, and then the guest would have to say “why yes, yes it is, and what’s more, it’s actually worse than that, and here’s another anecdote to help you understand”. I am glad that Soraya took the last 40 seconds to make a really important point about hate crimes, rather than answering the host’s question, which would’ve just been redundant.
Also, if that was “a hard look at misogyny”, Tom Donvan has lived a life without paying too much attention to what women have been saying for a loooong time. I mean, did he even read anything by his guests before sitting down in front of the microphone?
*I am reminded of what a friend posted regarding #NotAllMen — “I’m going to make a youtube video titled “Things All Men Do” and the only content will be “Say But Not All Men!”