Ah. I did a little more exploring in the comments to see where we’ve heard from “Skep tickle/skeptixx” before. It’s interesting.
Funny! Thanks the for the link to their source; I’m enjoying looking through them all.
Don’t lose hope, Ophelia – maybe you’ll “get” to say something in the next one…
Yup that’s our “Skep tickle” – that’s her sneering contempt in a nutshell.
She was much more prolific on a post I did about the horrific Delhi rape and the broader subject of hatred of women. The two are, in fact, connected, and hatred of women is, in fact, an important subject. Pitchguest and other pit creeps showed up to scream that I was making it all about me, again, and “skeptixx” joined in with energy.
Are you seriously trying to draw a comparison between a brutal, fatal, physical attack and criticisms of your [fill in the blank, including skepticism] as a blogger???
Get a grip. It really isn’t about you and your self-absorbed concerns.
Not to mention that you seem to be revising history as you go:
In spite of all the stupid lies the hate-campaigners keep recycling about me that I’m so stupid and scaredy and radfem that I see innocent emails from supporters as threats for no earthly reason (the prediction that I might be shot is never mentioned), I actually don’t spook easily.
You don’t, hunh. “Certain people should be ‘shot’” ring a bell? https://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2012/11/certain-people-eh/
Alice did the reality check:
Hey Ophelia – I looked at this, and it actually *is* a reference to vaccinations. She and other pro-vaxxers at TAM were signing a Jenny McCarthy poster. Check out the other pics in that album.
And you replied:
Vaccination. That didn’t even occur to me. Are these people making me a little paranoid? Looks that way.
How about actually discussing what approaches might actually help achieve a goal of actually preventing rapes? And, pro tip, coddling your precious ego isn’t one of those approaches.
Your rapier intellect has skewered my arguments, Sally Strange! How could I ever have thought:
1) That Ophelia’s post, purportedly about “An iron rod in the woman’s body”, being >50% about herself…would suggest self-absorption on her part?
2) That quoting the portion of Ophelia’s post about the “prediction that [she] might be shot” then linking back to her prior post in which she expressed concern about what she saw as a threat that she (?) might be shot, and quoting the portion in which it was revealed that it was just a play on words in Harriet Hall’s signature on an anti-vaxx poster, which others also signed, after which Ophelia admitted that maybe she was a little paranoid….would be help show that, at least in that example, Ophelia did react in a “scaredy” fashion, directly contradicting her claim that it’s a “stupid lie” to use “scaredy” to describe her?
3) That skeptics acting like skeptics – you know, actually investigating people’s claims, comparing statements from now with those from the recent past, calling out things like false equivalence…would be welcomed at a “freethought” site?
4) That a regular poster at FtB such as yourself, presumably one who considers himself or herself to be a feminist (though in fact I do not know your history or self-description)…would, apparently simply because I’m critiquing Ophelia’s statements, assume I’m male?
5) That working for the past 20 years in women’s health, as I have, which has in fact meant not only using the bathrooms there and not only reading the pamphlets but in fact choosing which ones we’ll post, oh and also screening women for risk of intimate partner violence (IPV) and treating women who have been victims of IPV…would teach me a darned thing about IPV? (Which the attack in India was not; that was stranger violence.)
Silly me. I stand corrected (not).
Oh look – she “doxxed” herself in that last item.
Mmm, I think I’ve seen this pattern before: form a circle, ignore the substance of the comments you don’t like, and start flinging ad hominems. Tribalism for the win!
Tribalism is it. What does she call the pit, then? Generous liberal internationalist universalism?
Tell you what. Anyone who is seriously interested in trying to prevent rape, how ’bout taking a look at this 2011 summary from the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence (US): Rape Prevention and Risk Reduction: Review of the Research Literature for Practitioners (or another similar resource if you know of one), then go ahead and propose some practical approaches. You can use the writing skills you learned in 4th grade if that’s where you learned them, or you can bring subsequent education to bear if applicable.
The studies mentioned in it are probably from the US & other western countries; if you can find any literature that might be more pertinent to India, please do present it.
The National Resource Center on Domestic Violence may not know what they’re talking about, though; I don’t see that they list, among the measures shown to reduce the risk of rape, any of the following: avoidance of signing anti-vax posters with puns involving the word “shoot” in case someone might misinterpret it, or photoshopping people’s heads onto posters (which I’ve never done, but I understand some people have done, and I admit to occasionally having laughed at), or creating parody twitter accounts, or even skeptically questioning people’s claims.
@Stacy #30 Hahaha. In a half-assed effort not to actually have to try to address the real-life problem, Stacy insults someone on-line.
@Sassafras #29: That’s helpful. I had heard about that one but hadn’t previously seen that post. But seriously?? That’s a “prediction that [she] might get shot”?
Did you see the line that actually referred to some risk of her being “shot” in these communications which purportedly were warning her to stay safe?
I’m happy that PZ was not shot (gun or uppants camera) at GAC, but that gives me scant reassurance that you will *not* be shot either way in Las Vegas.
“Prediction” is “a statement of what will happen in the future.” This is not a prediction. This seems like someone trying to get Ophelia freaked out with what frankly looks like either tongue-in-cheek warnings, or paranoid warnings from someone who overheard a few words and made assumptions about what it meant. And it worked; it freaked her out. She believed enough not to go to TAM, yet she elected not to tell the police?
Yeah, I can see how that is analogous to a woman (and to a lesser degree her male friend) being savagely assaulted by strangers on a bus in India, and how it helps prevent situations like that from occurring in the future.
Mmm. Insults supplanting evidence-based arguments, or at least that’s what it looks like.
I don’t usually frequent FtB, in part because it’s so painful to see supposed skeptics acting like this.
But anyway, since we’re here, let’s recap a bit, shall we?
Bad Jim #33: “No iron rod perforating a woman’s intestines could ever be as important as their most precious treasured grievances.”
– I hope that makes you feel better to say & think, m’dear. If you’ve done some important work in women’s rights, women’s health, etc, I’d love to hear about it.
Ophelia in opening post: “It creeps me the fuck out that open boastful misogyny has become so popular and mainstream lately. I think it’s strange that the vocal boastful misogynists don’t worry about this. … I think it’s strange that so many people think it’s good to foster a climate of ragey hatred.”
– Oh, she’s not talking about her own experiences? My bad. It sure sounded like it. Whose experiences is she talking about, then? And her claim that “open boastful misogyny has become so popular and mainstream lately” – does she mean universally, or does she mean directed at herwomen she knows? Does she mean since Elevatorgate, or is she talking about a different time frame?
Let’s move on. So, what do you all propose to reduce rape?
Ophelia #2: “Rapists need to stop attacking women.”
– Great idea. How do you propose taking steps to achieve that? Like, exactly what steps would you propose? What has been tried so far, and what evidence is there that it works?
Rodney Nelson #11 “We need to change the rape culture found throughout the world. We need to make rape as socially, as politically and as morally unacceptable as murder is.”
– Just an aside, the woman in India was raped and murdered (though the murder occurred as part of the rape; hard to know how she & her friend would have fared if rape were considered unacceptable by her attackers but other crimes were still on the table).
– “Change the rape culture found throughout the world.” Presumably, one might go to the countries with the lowest per capita rates of rape to learn what the secrets to their success are, right? (Understanding that under-reporting seriously impacts the official rates of this crime.) So, you could try a site like this (hey, look! I can use Google!): Rapes (per capita) by country to find Egypt, Armenia, and Azerbaijan as the 3 with the lowest (reported) rates. Canada and Japan also have low rates.
– Of course, to find out where your efforts could best be used, you’d want to look at the top of the list. Congo isn’t on this list but in 2012 was said to have the highest rate in the world. Lesotho is at the top here, followed distantly by New Zealand, Belgium, and Iceland. So you’ll want to pack your back & off you go to the Congo, Lesotho, New Zealand, Belgium, and Iceland, to start implementing the changes you think will work! (Whether or not you stop by Egypt, Armenia, and Azerbaijan on the way to take notes.)
SallyStrange #19 As for what will actually help bring down rape rates? Well, according to research, the most successful rapists are repeat rapists who use drugs, alcohol, and threats of violence (rather than actual violence) to rape. They usually rape acquaintances too. Why? Because … everyone … thinks that date rape isn’t really rape because the woman must have secretly been “asking for it.” That means no more victim blaming, like Abdul was doing here. You can help out by criticizing Abdul*, who is actively working AGAINST decreasing rape rates, rather than attacking Ophelia, who is working FOR decreasing rape rates.
*Abdul Alhazred #1 proposes arming women & repeats this in #6. (His prison rape bit was weird.)
– All right, so we can help out by criticizing someone who is proposing deterrence by arming women. That’s the first practical step mentioned so far. Even if we extend it to criticizing everyone who proposes this step – presumably a relatively small number of people – how has that actually helped?
– Oh, and we can stop making any critical comments about Ophelia’s posts, because that is counterproductive (and might end up raising rape rates? Hmm)
What did that awful slimy troll skeptixx suggest in this thread, related to rape rates? #16 “How about actually discussing what approaches might actually help achieve a goal of actually preventing rapes?”
– Well, we have an answer as above: attack Abdul! That’ll apparently feel useful, even if it does fuck-all to actually reduce anyone’s risk of rape.
#28 “Anyone who is seriously interested in trying to prevent rape, how ’bout taking a look at this 2011 summary from the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence (US): Rape Prevention and Risk Reduction: Review of the Research Literature for Practitioners (or another similar resource if you know of one), then go ahead and propose some practical approaches. …if you can find any literature that might be more pertinent to India, please do present it.”
I don’t suppose anyone is interested in listing the 3 general approaches to rape prevention, and for extra credit describing the potential upsides and downsides of each, and what evidence there is to support the efficacy of each general approach?
How would that make you self-righteous? Wouldn’t it be something to celebrate? I mean, isn’t the goal to actually help bring about changes in the world (understanding that most change occurs gradually, over years, through the efforts of many people)?
Don’t worry, there’s probably still time. Perhaps there’s some volunteer work you could do that would help move society in this direction. If you’re male (as your ‘nym suggests), how about joining forces with a group like this one: http://www.mencanstoprape.org/ ? Maybe going into high schools to talk to adolescent males, help instill an understanding of rape culture and practical tips to combat the messages they get from society.
Or, no less involved but on a more individual level, maybe being a Big Brother to a boy who might benefit from your positive influence.
It’s cool that she lectures us on how to do good things while she does good things by whipping up frothing rage at me at the slime pit. She’s an example to us all.