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Aug 01 2012

Biblical marriage

Jamila Bey is awesome. If we had biblical marriage, I’d ask her to join my harem.*

That is all.

*Offer void if my dearly beloved only wife concusses me.


Here’s the video. Advance it to 19 minutes to skip the god-bothering and see Jamila in action.

75 comments

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  1. 1
    PZ Myers

    Also, if she turns me down, she should know that the woman’s consent is not part of biblical marriage, either.

    Actually, I think she does know that.

  2. 2
    Regular Joe

    Take her as a war prisoner, PZ, while killing her family, friends, and neighbors. Or, just rape her and give her father 20 or so goats and a few good laying hens. You have options.

  3. 3
    chigau (違う)

    She sounds dangerously uppity.
    You wouldn’t stand a chance.

  4. 4
    Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)

    WTFZOMGRAWR If we don’t defend marriage against two men or two women marrying, we won’t be allowed to have biblical marriage! And then we won’t be able to legally rape women and buy them “used” from their fathers!

  5. 5
    PZ Myers

    My wife will suspect something if she comes home and finds 20 goats in the back yard.

    Also, can we skip the rapey/murderey part? I think if only I gather enough goats, I can acquire her biblically with no violence involved. (Oh, I know, that wouldn’t be very biblical, but this is the 21st century. A little progress is surely ok.)

  6. 6
    Anthony K

    My wife will suspect something if she comes home and finds 20 goats in the back yard.

    I just tell the GF™ that it’s a Croatian thing.

  7. 7
    PZ Myers

    Huh. It’s a very Old Norwegian thing, too. Perhaps my Viking Ancestors were part of a Lost Tribe of Croats?

  8. 8
    dianne

    The problem is, Jamila Bey is so awesome that if my partner said he’d like to have a biblical marriage with me and her as his harem, I’d say yes just so that I could be married to Jamila Bey. Your wife may feel the same and help you collect the goats.

  9. 9
    PZ Myers

    YES! WE WILL DO OUR PART TO RESTORE BIBLICAL MARRIAGE!

    Next: Shopping for concubines!

  10. 10
    Anthony K

    Huh. It’s a very Old Norwegian thing, too. Perhaps my Viking Ancestors were part of a Lost Tribe of Croats?

    Uh, if you like, you can tape a couple of cats to your chest to make up a respectable pelt of body hair, and we can consider you an honorary one.

  11. 11
    steve84

    @Regular Joe
    The correct price for rape is 50 shekels of silver, which is about 550 grams or 19.4 ounces. In today’s prices that’s roughly 535 Dollars (at $27.6 per ounce)

  12. 12
    Anthony K

    Next: Shopping for concubines!

    But I don’t have a Costco membership.

  13. 13
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    That was fucking amazing. I, too, would like to marry Jamila because of that courage.

    Shall I collect goats in anticipation?

  14. 14
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Okay, I have cause now to deflounce.

    PZ: you are NORWEGIAN?! *shakes head*

    I don’t know if me and my Swedishness-by-extraction can, uh, continue to deflounce.

    As for the OP, have people seen this graphic, spotted all over the net? 100% Biblically accurate.

  15. 15
    PZ Myers

    Only one quarter Norwegian.

    One quarter Swedish.

    3/4 weird scots/irish/english/unknown mongrel blend.

    and 3/17 mutant alien.

    It’s complicated.

  16. 16
    Sili

    You could always give her father 200 philistine foreskins.

  17. 17
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Or you could go the Dinah-and-Sechem route, give her father your own foreskin and the foreskins of your sons. But lock your door, because her brothers will break in and stab you to death.

  18. 18
    Gregory in Seattle

    Betty Bowers Explains Biblical Marriage

    What more needs to be said?

  19. 19
    PZ Myers

    Where would I find 200 philistines?

    <eyes Pharyngula commentariat>

    I have just had a wonderful idea!

  20. 20
    Sili

    It’s complicated.

    MISCEGENATION!!!

  21. 21
    Stella

    It’s a very Old Norwegian thing, too.

    It’s also a very Old Danish thing, although the traditional Danish way of obtaining Jamila would probably be to show up with a mob of armed, drunk mates and demand that her family hand her over in exchange for you going away.

  22. 22
    usingreason

    Stick around for the bit following Jamila in the video as well; you get to learn how permitting same-sex marriage ‘correlates’ to other bad things and … well, stupidity ensues.

  23. 23
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    MISCEGENATION!!!

    Hmm.

    1/4 English, 1/8 Scottish, 1/16 Irish, 1/8 Scots-Irish, 1/16 Swedish, 1/4 German, 1/8 Bavarian.

    BEHOLD! THE NORTH-WESTERN EUROPEAN MUTT.

  24. 24
    kreativekaos

    One Philistine willing to donate foreskin for a Biblical cause.
    ( If I can find it,… I know I left it lying around here somewhere.)

  25. 25
    chigau (違う)

    I don’t have a foreskin.
    Don’t even try.

  26. 26
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    PZ:

    Next: Shopping for concubines!

    I have to work up to that. I’m still trying to shop for pillars of salt.

  27. 27
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I don’t have any foreskins on me.

    They’re all in the lab.

  28. 28
    madscientist

    Goddamn, I can’t stand these filthy lying hateful preachers. Jamila does good.

  29. 29
    John Kruger

    Does she get any more time after the 19 minute exchange? It is hard to force myself through the inane, fact dodging, bigoted talking points.

  30. 30
    John Kruger

    If there was any doubt, I was talking about the stuff Jamila was not involved in.

  31. 31
    kayden

    So this idiot pastor and his idiot group are going to go around and yap against same sex marriage to convince African Americans to vote against Obama?

    Good luck with that. One poll I saw showed African American support for Romney at a whopping 1%.

    My blood pressure is up just listening to him. Interesting that someone who lived through/suffered through state-enforced racism would now turn around to advocate discrimination against gays. No empathy at all.

    And how in the world does gay marriage hurt African American families? Does not compute.

  32. 32
    sqlrob

    Next: Shopping for concubines!

    That sounds like a new reality show.

  33. 33
    SteveV

    The abyss beckons
    or: “We’re All Doomed”

  34. 34
    kreativekaos

    Kayden, I agree. It’s always been amazing to me how African American bigots can’t see the reflection of their own bigotry in the prejudices that they suffered.

    And I wondered as I watched the video, is their position the same position that Civil Rights icon Martin Luther King, Jr. would take??? Somehow, I doubt it.

  35. 35
    Ophelia Benson

    Jamila IS awesome. I met her at Women in Secularism. I was awed.

  36. 36
    The twelfth vote

    PZ, I’m sure you’ve already seen it, but JT has an awesome post up about this stuff, too.

  37. 37
    peterh

    To marry her, you’d first have to marry her sister and then go through seven years of indentured servitude – read here slavery.

  38. 38
    kreativekaos

    Another thing: They say they’re not ‘political’.

    It seems to me that if you take a social position, go on the road to promote it, look for monetary support to bolster the message, and have press conferences attacking a sitting political figure (Obama) over an issue that does, in fact, have a political component,….. then they are in fact getting (you guessed it)–POLITICAL.

  39. 39
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    So this idiot pastor and his idiot group are going to go around and yap against same sex marriage to convince African Americans to vote against Obama?

    The idea is not to get them to vote for Romney. The idea is (as so many conservative ploys have been lately) to keep them from voting at all. They will never vote conservative, but that doesn’t matter if they never vote.

  40. 40
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    My response to displays like this, aside from noting the unfortunate cut of his moustache, is emotional. Angry, saddened, bewildered at the lack of historical and self-awareness. His answer to the question about the critics who say he’s being homophobic and bigoted is tragic.

    Oh, and this is another opportunity to link to my recommendation of Vito on HBO. Do try to see it if you can.

    (Jamila Bey was excellent. I loved how she made it specific and got the point across without having to rely on a substantive response from him.)

  41. 41
    silomowbray, sans frottage pour la douche

    IIRC, Chris Rock once commented: “If you’re black and Christian, you have a damned short memory.”

  42. 42
    kayden

    @kreativekaos:

    You’re right. Mrs. King was very pro-gay rights.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coretta_Scott_King

    And Dr. King worked with Bayard Rustin, a gay civil rights activist (among other accomplishments).

    These African American bigots, in my opinion, are not heirs to the civil rights movement. Just like the segregationists, they’re on the wrong side of history.

  43. 43
    kreativekaos

    Kayden,… exactly. Thanks for the link.

  44. 44
    kreativekaos

    (Makes me wonder if these fervently bigoted African American pastors and their flock really understand MLK’s (and presumably many of his close allies and friends) would likely be against them on this subject. It would be an interesting situation to observe if MLK were here today. I wonder if they would be so adamant to hold the positions that they espouse in the press meeting.

  45. 45
    Larry

    But I don’t have a Costco membership

    Concubines. Aisle 3. Next to the lawn mowers and the one-gallon tubs of chocolate peanuts. Be aware, however, you can only buy them in shrink-wrapped palettes of two.

  46. 46
    nickcharles

    Count Mildred Loving amongst famous black civil rights figures who took a strong pro-LGBT stance.

  47. 47
    J Bowen

    My wife owns me. I love her.

  48. 48
    Regular Joe

    @Steve84 Have you ever priced goats? I’d rather pay the going rate in silver….much cheaper, and easier to keep, store, exchange, etc.

  49. 49
    joshfisher

    Does the gentleman, at 19:52, say, “Would you have this nigger removed?” I don’t think so, but I don’t know what he’s saying then.

  50. 50
    Shplane, Spess Alium

    Did MLK ever actually say anything about homosexual rights? Not that he didn’t do great things, but to the best of my knowledge we have no way of determining how he would have felt about gay marriage one way or the other. People are not homogenous, and sometimes a person who is really great about one thing can be really awful about another (See all the skeptical misogynists).

    The real world isn’t D&D. You can’t look at someone’s alignment and discern their reaction to everything they might encounter from it.

    Of course, it doesn’t seem incredibly unlikely that he would be on the side of gay marriage. Just certainly not definite. If someone has a quote or something, I’d certainly be interested in it.

  51. 51
    joshfisher

    Skepchick’s transcript gives: “Would you have this lady removed,” I think. I don’t hear it, still. But I’m satisfied with that.

  52. 52
    Paul

    @50

    Unclear. There is this, wherein he supposedly stated in a 1958 Ebony magazine article that a boy liking other boys was a “problem” to be addressed. Confounding facts being that there were LGBT advocates in his inner circle, his wife was an LGBT advocate and felt that Dr. King would have been a fierce advocate for them, but his daughter was very much not as I recall.

    I tried to find an electronic version of that magazine article, to no avail.

  53. 53
    sadunlap

    Over 40 years ago Kurt Vonnegut created an absurd character: a black neo-Nazi. In the sam book, Mother Night, he introduces the metaphor of thought processes as a clockwork of wheels and meshing gears which, in some people’s heads, have teeth missing. This makes the machinery lurch a bit. He explains these strange cases of contradictory nonsense by way of too many teeth missing from too many gears.

    The way that the speaker blocks out all the elements of “biblical marriage” that does not support his position sooooo reminds me of that gem from Vonnegut.

    Oh, around the 28 minute mark he starts asking for money. Of course.

  54. 54
    frankarmstrong

    Many 19th century African Americans, freed from literal slavery, found comfort in spiritual slavery, where they had a distant master who would one day punish them or, if all went well, allow them up to the house. Of course it would be in poor taste to point this out. Cough.

  55. 55
    feralboy12

    In the sam book, Mother Night, he introduces the metaphor of thought processes as a clockwork of wheels and meshing gears which, in some people’s heads, have teeth missing. This makes the machinery lurch a bit. He explains these strange cases of contradictory nonsense by way of too many teeth missing from too many gears.

    Also, he differentiates between those who willingly file off those teeth and those who have them ground down by “the clutchless shifts of history,” which I’ve always thought was one of his best lines.

  56. 56
    carlie

    Many 19th century African Americans, freed from literal slavery, found comfort in spiritual slavery, where they had a distant master who would one day punish them or, if all went well, allow them up to the house. Of course it would be in poor taste to point this out. Cough.

    Oh, sure. And that was SO DIFFERENT from all the white plantation owners who also comforted themselves with spiritual slavery with a distant master who would punish them or allow them up to the house. Stupid bigot.

  57. 57
    macallan

    1/4 English, 1/8 Scottish, 1/16 Irish, 1/8 Scots-Irish, 1/16 Swedish, 1/4 German, 1/8 Bavarian.

    BEHOLD! THE NORTH-WESTERN EUROPEAN MUTT.

    Thank you, in the name of everyone who grew up north of the Weisswurstaequator, for distinguishing between german and bavarian.

  58. 58
    imthegenieicandoanything

    That one could make this piece-of-shit nobody bigot watch his own press conference, and ask him, “Wouldn’t you say that you look like a very bigoted, ill-spoken, stupid asshole?” only to see him taken aback by the question really says it all.

    Being a believin’ Christian really outs one as a basically self-deceiving jerkoff who really can’t tell right from wrong, save when it puts cash directly into their grubby, sweaty little hands.

  59. 59
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Thank you, in the name of everyone who grew up north of the Weisswurstaequator, for distinguishing between german and bavarian.

    If I failed to, I’d get relatives in Stráẑný (if you’re trying to find that in Germany, GIVE UP. It is not in Germany) AND in Hamburg screaming at me.

  60. 60
    birgerjohansson

    “Over 40 years ago Kurt Vonnegut created an absurd character: a black neo-Nazi”

    We actually have one of those in Sweden!
    He is in prison now for double murder and bank robbery.

    So, PZ is 50% descended from vodka drinkers, with some genetic input from whisky drinkers.
    If he had Finn ancestry on top of the Irish, he would be able to out-drink everyone in the world (BTW, Swedes rarely make fun of Finns because of their fierce reputation).

  61. 61
    kreativekaos

    Shplane@50, Paul @ 52:

    Shplane, you may have a point, since I’m not sure we have any actual comment by MLK on this particular subject, however, Kayden posted a wiki link at #42 showing King’s wife Coretta championed LGBT rights in later years.
    Given how MLK incorporated anti-war sentiments within his call for civil rights, did not support the Vietnam War and always came from a point of defending human rights in general, I think it would be a safe bet that he would not support the prejudicial mindset of some in the African American community (particularly ‘leaders’, as exemplified in the video) that view LGBT rights, in this case same-sex marriage, as something immoral, unethical or otherwise indefensible.

    Could be totally wrong on that; who knows how he may have changed his views had he been around in the ’80s or ’90s. But I think based on the arc of his knowledge and wisdom, and his civil rights experience through the early and mid ’60s, but feeling is that he would be critical of those who would deny the foundational social institution of marriage on the basis of a same-sex relationship. I think his main concerns all fit together: anti-violence/anti-war, mutual human respect for all and from all, demolishing prejudice and bigotry, and defense of basic human rights,… including same-sex marriage.
    But hey,… ultimately, who knows, given the nutty world 30 plus years of conservative craziness has left us.

  62. 62
    sadunlap

    feralboy12

    Also, he differentiates between those who willingly file off those teeth and those who have them ground down by “the clutchless shifts of history,” which I’ve always thought was one of his best lines.

    Thank you. It’s been decades since I read Mother Night and I had forgotten that line until now.

    BTW the movie version was fantastic. It forced me to change my mind about Nick Nolte (because of that movie I think he’s great).

  63. 63
    Ingdigo Jump

    Many 19th century African Americans, freed from literal slavery, found comfort in spiritual slavery, where they had a distant master who would one day punish them or, if all went well, allow them up to the house. Of course it would be in poor taste to point this out. Cough.

    Your time line is way off. African American culture had become very theistic back when the slave trade was rampant.

    a) it was the only form of community most slaves were allowed
    b) it was encouraged by slave owners
    c) Desperate people become superstitious.

  64. 64
    Sili

    My response to displays like this, aside from noting the unfortunate cut of his moustache, is emotional

    You mean the sides shoulda been straighter?

    /Godwin

  65. 65
    jonathanray

    Equating opposition to gay marriage with Martin Luther King’s civil rights movement is the most breathtakingly ironic idiocy I’ve heard this year. How exactly are they being oppressed by consenting adults being free to marry each other?

  66. 66
    Konradius

    A couple of months ago there was this episode of real time with Bill Maher. Al Sharpton was one of his guests and gay marriage was discussed. All guests (and Bill) were pro gay marriage btw.
    Now I don’t (didn’t) like Al that much. But in this episode when discussing if state referendums should be used to advance gay rights he launched into a great rant with as the most impotant line:
    Rights are not decided by majority rule!

    So it’s good to note that not all black christian leaders are like the people on stage in this video.

  67. 67
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    What kind of biblical mirage was this again?

  68. 68
    David Marjanović

    If we had biblical marriage, I’d ask her to join my harem.

    You wouldn’t. You’d ask her father to put her into your harem.

    Right?

    Thank you, in the name of everyone who grew up north of the Weisswurstaequator, for distinguishing between german and bavarian.

    Thank you, in the name of everyone who grew up south of the Weißwurstäquator, for distinguishing between Piefke and Bavarian! :o)

    (And that’s before we even get to the Franks. Neither they nor the Bavarians are at all happy about the fact that their land belongs to Bavaria.)

    “Over 40 years ago Kurt Vonnegut created an absurd character: a black neo-Nazi”

    We actually have one of those in Sweden!
    He is in prison now for double murder and bank robbery.

    *headdesk*
    CRASH
    *headfloor*

    what is this I don’t even

    …really, how did that work?

    You mean the sides shoulda been straighter?

    X-D

  69. 69
    katansi

    This guy is just a terrible fucking person who, yet again, fails reading comprehension of the book he’s supposedly promoting.

  70. 70
    Fred Salvador, Onion Jumbler

    1/4 English, 1/8 Scottish, 1/16 Irish, 1/8 Scots-Irish, 1/16 Swedish, 1/4 German, 1/8 Bavarian.

    How many of those countries were you actually born in? :-P

    In all seriousness, as much as I, an English-born Englishman whose mother happens to be Scottish (albeit via an exceptionally wide and largely Celtic/ Liverpudlian gene pool) find many reasons to disdain the hyphenated American bandwagon, I do have a twisted form of grudging respect for the few Irish Americans who join Orange Lodges and march on the 12th in their silly little parades. Nobody who jumps on that particular bandwagon (no pun intended) is concerned about being perceived as “cool”.

    Equating opposition to gay marriage with Martin Luther King’s civil rights movement is the most breathtakingly ironic idiocy I’ve heard this year.

    Did someone actually do this? If so, I wish the courts would equate “waving one’s social privilege in the faces of others” with “waving one’s unwashed anus in the faces of others”. That would produce a fairer world in no time at all.

  71. 71
    truthspeaker

    Sadly, my foreskin was disposed of by the staff at Mercy Hospital in Dubuque, Iowa, forty-some years ago.

  72. 72
    jnorris

    Preacher refuses to defend the Bible, WOW!

  73. 73
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Where would I find 200 philistines?

    I have just had a wonderful idea!

    If you can time travel back to 1966 you are welcome to it.

    1/4 English, 1/8 Scottish, 1/16 Irish, 1/8 Scots-Irish, 1/16 Swedish, 1/4 German, 1/8 Bavarian.

    BEHOLD! THE NORTH-WESTERN EUROPEAN MUTT.

    Hmm. 1/2 English. 1/4 Polish. 1/4 German. With some Italian, French, Scots Irish, Finnish, Hungarian, Russian, and Abenaki thrown in. Quite muttish.

    what is this I don’t even

    …really, how did that work?

    [Speech Pattern = pseudoFreud]Vell, you know, Vonnegut iss just dis guy, you know?[/Speech Pattern] (Think Zaphod Beeblebrox’s psychiatrist and it’ll almost make sense).

  74. 74
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    A couple of months ago there was this episode of real time with Bill Maher. Al Sharpton was one of his guests and gay marriage was discussed. All guests (and Bill) were pro gay marriage btw.
    Now I don’t (didn’t) like Al that much. But in this episode when discussing if state referendums should be used to advance gay rights he launched into a great rant with as the most impotant line:
    Rights are not decided by majority rule!

    So it’s good to note that not all black christian leaders are like the people on stage in this video.

    Al Sharpton was James brown’s tour manager in the early 70s. Just Saying’.

  75. 75
    mikee

    Did he refer to his campaign as the Mandate campaign

    Mandate?

    Man date? Hmmmmmm, lol

    Such a good token woman on stage behind the pastor, listening quietly, not saying anything. No wonder he couldn’t deal with Jamila – she rocks!

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