Women had more rights in pre-Islamic period.

Pre Islam Arab Women 4th to 6th century C.E. Women in Islam. 21st century Women in Iran Sassanid era (226–651 C.E.) Scythian woman warrior. Ancient pre-Islamic Persia had female warriors and chieftains. A Persian Sassanid Female Warrior. Before Islam. Muslim women in Iran. 21st century Artemisia was a daughter of Hecatomnus, the founder of the Hecatomnid house that had ruled Caria since the beginning of the 4th century. She was the warrior-Queen of Halicarnassus (now in modern western Turkey). Artemisia statue in Bodrum, Turkey. Muslim women in Turkey. 21st century. Al-Uzza, Warrier Goddess. Pre Islamic Arabia. Allah, the moon god and his three daughters, Goddess Al-Lat, Goddess Al-Uzza, and Goddess Manat. Pre Islamic Arabia. Pre Islamic Arab pagan goddess Al-Uzza temple, Petra, Jordan. Islam brought this slogan. Khadija Bint Khuwaylid was a successful business woman. She inherited her father’s business and made it a much more profitable one. She was from a noble family. She earned three titles: Ameerat-Quraish (Princess of Quraish) and al-Tahira (the Pure One), and Khadija Al-Kubra (Khadija the Great). She was a nice and a kind woman. She helped the poor. Khadija was a very wealthy woman, many men asked for her hand in marriage but she refused to marry them. Some of her relatives requested her to hire a man called Muhammad from Quraish tribe. Even though he was illiterate he was known to them as a clever man. Khadija employed Muhammad as an agent for her trade with Syria. Muhammad used Khadija’s  trade caravans for work. He helped her make profit in business. He was considered a trustworthy hard working man. Khadija was so impressed that she doubled Muhammad’s salary and then decided to marry him. She was 40-year-old when she married Mohammad, a 25-year-old man. Khadija  married twice before marrying Mohammad. She gave birth to three daughters when they were together. Khadija had other children from previous marriages. Mohammad had his first revelation when he was 40. He was financially dependent on Khadija. He did not marry other women until Khadija died. After she died, Muhammad married 12 more women including a 6-year-old child.

Muhammad was worried that his wives might get angry with him and leave him. He was so jealous that he revealed some verses.

The Quran: 33.30 O wives of the Prophet! If any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the Punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for Allah.

33.31 But any of you that is devout in the service of Allah and His Messenger, and works righteousness,- to her shall We grant her reward twice: and We have prepared for her a generous Sustenance

He was worried that his wives would attract the attention of other men. So he asked them to wear veils.

33.32 O wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just. 33.33 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance ; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

Muhammad desperately wanted his wives to be submissive. He threatened his wives.

The Quran: 66.5 It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you, Muslims (who submit to Allah), believers, obedient to Allah, turning to Allah in repentance, worshiping Allah sincerely, fasting or emigrants (for Allah’s sake), previously married and virgins.”

Many verses of the Quran and the Hadith (Sayings of Muhammad) prove that Islam did not elevate the status of women, rather it was the cause of the humiliation, subjugation, denigration of women. Here are a very few examples.

The Quran 4.34 Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Bukhari Hadith Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301 says

Once Allah’s Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o ‘Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle ?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” The women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her religion.”

Bukhari Hadith Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648 says

‘…Then ‘Umar went on relating the narration and said. “I and an Ansari neighbor of mine from Bani Umaiya bin Zaid who used to live in ‘Awali Al-Medina, used to visit the Prophet in turns. He used to go one day, and I another day. When I went I would bring him the news of what had happened that day regarding the instructions and orders and when he went, he used to do the same for me. We, the people of quraish, used to have authority over women, but when we came to live with the ansar, we noticed that the ansari women had the upper hand over their men, so our women started acquiring the habits of the ansari women. Once i shouted at my wife and she paid me back in my coin and i disliked that she should answer me back.She said, ‘Why do you take it ill that I retort upon you? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet retort upon him, and some of them may not speak with him for the whole day till night.’ What she said scared me and I said to her, ‘Whoever amongst them does so, will be a great loser.’ …’

Bukhari Hadith Volume 2, Book 18, Number 161 says

‘I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! Why is it so?” The Prophet replied, “Because of their ungratefulness.” It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet said, “They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds. If you are benevolent to one of them throughout the life and if she sees anything (undesirable) in you, she will say, ‘I have never had any good from you.’

Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 54, Number 460 says

Allah’s Apostle said, “If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning.”

Sahih Muslim Hadith Book 008, Number 3466 says

Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Woman is like a rib. When you attempt to straighten it, you would break it. And if you leave her alone you would benefit by her, and crookedness will remain in her.


  1. arungupta says

    In “Women and Gender in Islam”, Professor Leila Ahmed (she has a new book out on the veil) narrates:

    “That women felt Islam to be a somewhat depressing religion is suggested by a remark of Muhammad’s great-granddaughter Sukaina, who, when asked why she was so merry and her sister Fatima so solemn, replied that it was because she had been named after her pre-Islamic great-grandmother, whereas her sister has been named after her Islamic grandmother.”

  2. Snoof says

    The first image (which I presume to be Pre Islam Arab Women 4th to 6th century AD) appears to be missing.

    An interesting comparison, nonetheless.

  3. Pierce R. Butler says

    … fasting or emigrants (for Allâh’s sake), previously married and virgins.

    Muhammad and the writers of the hadith seem inordinately fond of non-sequiturs.

  4. lordshipmayhem says

    Yet again we are able to demonstrate that the writers of a religious text were driven not by a holy revelation but rather by local, contemporary issues and the authors’ prejudices, fears, and desires.

    Like the Higgs Boson, no gods involved.

  5. says

    Taslima Nasreen, your small kernel here easily outweighs the vast but rotten feast of claims by Islamics about the historical role of women. Keep planting the seeds of doubts in their rhetoric.

  6. sumdum says

    Holy crap, Morag the immortal from Oglaf is Al-Uzza!
    (p.s., Oglaf is very NSFW, google at your own peril)

  7. sumdum says

    On a more serious note, that Bukhari hadith 301 is a stellar example of circular reasoning. Allah is a dumbass.

    • Abdullah Al-Saraireh says

      hilarious since Christians don’t know whether jesus is god or his fuckin son make up ur mind at least mother fuckers

      • BobHollyJr says

        For Catholics, Jesus IS god, god’s son and god’s ghost. it’s still more respectable, barely, to follow the made-up teachings of a fictional man/god/ghost than the perverted rantings of a pedophile. Go. I can hear the lunacy in your head calling you home… go be with satan, you filthy pig.

        • Gertrude van Voorden says

          Jesus being the son of God is only a recent invention, about which there was much debate.Read former catholic nun Karen Armstrong on that. Preferably before you go insulting people. As for the prophet Mohammed being a pedophile i must desillusion you. For i recently found that was topped and by what is written in the Talmud regarding 3 year old girls to be used for sex, whenever a man felt the urge, and even more so because of Isaac marrying Rebecca, when she was 3 years old and according to judaic law that marriage was immediatelty consumed, contrary to the prophet Mohammed marrying Aicha where there are stories how he played with her with dolls. Scientific research claims the current bible is written by joseph of Arimethea Flavius for Caesar Flavius and Jesus is a metaphor for his son Titus Flavius. There is much online, how different biblebooks to not correlate. And the later added book Revelations, not present in the Aramaic bible, but when translated into english, the translator was forced by the publisher to add the book, prophesies what currently seems to be happening. Many fundamentalist american christians expecting that Israel will rule the world with an iron rod. Ariel Sharon shouting that out loud also somewhere on a YouTube film. It is now feasible technologically to full execute Revelations, Rapture/Ascension included. Rothchild built a new supreme court in Jerusalem, and who googles the interior, can see how that is based on satanic, dark occult, illuminati symbolism. Jesus equalling Lucifer, known as the fallen angel by many, but now promoted as the God of Knowledge. Historically so far noone has been able to proof the existence of Jesus. For all we know these sacred texts are planted scripts, through which the Illuminati intend to gain worldcontrol. With their promoting of the need for a 95 % worldpopulationreduction and with right now many wars going on and the Ebolascare, a very real possibility. Just read a good scientific historybook written my a muslim himself and you will learn that there were many different women around back then. Women knocked in their teeth by men, warriorwomen, and amazones who held male slaves and ditched their babyboys at the village closeby to be raised there. Preislamic women were also sexually very free. The great fear of muslim men today the return of the days of the jahalya, i probably do not spell that right. As i always used to say to my exhusband, an algerian muslim, were you there. many commenters project in the past from how muslim men behave today. And yes it is said countless times in the Quran that women are equal to men, with in one place the addition, but men will not understand that. Now hundreds of time, men did not do their homework as the Quran advises. To study as far as China. To study other cultures. Scandinavian f.i. where women were equal. And where now there is an epidemic of rapes, by muslim men, often asylumseekers, where before there was none. Not only scandinavian girls/women are targeted, but also muslim girls not wearing the hidjab. So much for the advise that there can be no force in the religion. As for christianity Prechristianity women owned all the land, christianity stole it from them. And feminism, that is a plot thought up by the Illuminati, Gloria Steinem a paid CIA agent, to alienate the two genders, cause most families to breakdown, thus reducing cohesion in societies. Thus reducing safety within societies. The same with immigration, which causes western societies to break down, multicultural societies too much to handle for most, so hatespreaders like dutch Geert Wilders and now US Ayaan Hirsi Ali have it easy to spread islamofobia. One cannot buy the Talmud, thus most in the world are not aware of a quote that jews will have to kill all the goyim, non jews. or that a 3 year old girl can be raped, because her hymen, like tears keep flowing again and again, will grow back again. The biblebooks are based on much older spiritual texts and in those days it was custom to borrow entire stories of much earlier cultures, Gods and Goddesses. This whole play for equality by the feminist movement, caused many women to live single, celibate, lonely lives. Their careers making them convenient taxpayers, but also taking them away to raise their children, which are now raised by nurseries and the state at an ever earlier age, mindcontrolled, brainwashed, not taught to think for themselves. Many women with careers suffer major Burnouts because they cannot combine raising children with having a career. They also do not have time for social relations or commitments, no time to take care of their elders/parents, who sit in 24 hour nappies, urine leaking down their legs, for lack of staff, the government cutting back on healthservices more and more. Now both men and women have become workslaves. Dutch research showed to keep things going, social relations, hobbies, raising children, with men and women both working they should not work longer then 25-30 hours. When a person is that occupied with work, they have no time to keep up with what is going on in the world, let alone research history to gain some further understanding about how we got where we are right now. They also have no time to invest in either spiritual growth or psychological maturing or healing traumas of which many in western societies and possibly islamic societies suffer. Maybe it is too late to realize genderequality, to reverse ecocide, make this human world work. Maybe this planet, this earth is better off with humanity extinct. For most seem to care more about their own little egos then about their future generations having a life on this planet and about this planet being healthy, florishing. One can read the Quran as advises on how to form a cooperative, cohesive society. Or islam can present itself to the world as dominant men, who do not hesitate to cut bloody wounds in their own babyboys for a Shia festival, and themselves, or as dominant men wanting to force the entire world, all western nations on Sharia law, women wearing black niqabs, judging all those who think and believe differently. Regardless of the words in the Quran that Allah sent over a 100 different prophets, sacred messengers to many different peoples all over the world. Regardless of a command not to seed hatred for Allah in non islamic countries. Muslims failed big time in correcting their own brothers and sisters in becoming fanatics, in wrong interpretations of the Quran. Where it says that a muslim should place noone between her or himself and Allah. In my view that includes scholars, whether islamic or western and even more so, one’s husband or any other man. But as with all oppression it is the victims themselves who will have to liberate themselves, it will not be granted to them by their oppressors or perpetrators. And in that journey lies treasure, the Greater jihad. Selftransformation.

          • nana says

            so your argument against muhammed being a pedophile is ‘some jew did it too’??really?

          • Arual Drol says

            Wow. You need to get your information from credible sources sweetie. Nothing in the Torah gives an age for Rebekkah. The story itself clearly calls her a young woman and the storyline indicates that is what she was. How many three year olds carry giant water jars and have adult conversations with strangers.

            I will not defend the Talmud though since I do think it is a source of a lot of crap. However, Talmud is not scripture, and to Christians it is nothing at all.

            It would seem you have been reading Islamic propaganda and not questioning it?

            The trinity is not a recent construct. It certainly is older than Islam.

          • Arual Drol says

            Your comment smacks of a delusional CONvert who has set aside all reasoning and common sense.

          • secular says

            “As for the prophet Mohammed being a pedophile i must desillusion you. For i recently found that was topped and by what is written in the Talmud regarding 3 year old girls to be used for sex, whenever a man felt the urge, and even more so because of Isaac marrying Rebecca, when she was 3 years old and according to judaic law that marriage was immediatelty consumed, contrary to the prophet Mohammed marrying Aicha where there are stories how he played with her with dolls.” Wow are u serious. Because talmud is apiece of shit, so Mo wasn’t all that bad. Especially because the mythical Isaac laid the pipe on 3 Yr old & Mo played with dolls with 6 yr old bride, it makes it all good. Why this deflection & conflation.

  8. says

    Didn’t the Kaaba belong to three goddesses before the time of Mohammed? I keep reading what terrible bloodthirsty deities they were but I can’t help thinking that history is written by the winners.

  9. says

    Very well written Taslima.. The muslims in times of Muhammad were tyrants and arrogant because of their growing military power and wealth…but, the muslims of today are either just plain ignorant or choose to turn their eyes away..

    Same holds for any religion for that matter!

    Keep writing and keep well!

  10. F says

    We, the people of quraish, used to have authority over women, but when we came to live with the ansar, we noticed that the ansari women had the upper hand over their men, so our women started acquiring the habits of the ansari women. Once i shouted at my wife and she paid me back in my coin and i disliked that she should answer me back.She said, ‘Why do you take it ill that I retort upon you? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet retort upon him, and some of them may not speak with him for the whole day till night.’ What she said scared me and I said to her, ‘Whoever amongst them does so, will be a great loser.’ …’

    I am always fond of those so certain of their beliefs that they openly admit that their personal problems are the cause of their beliefs. “I don’t like that, and it scares me that I have to deal with it.”

  11. S Babu says

    This is good stuff, Taslima. I am sick of hearing from Islamist ‘feminists’ about what a great stride forward Islam was for women in the Middle East at that time. Maybe, MAYBE it was (though I doubt it), but what about now, when it seems to be a great leap backwards?

    From your examples, I am also reminded of Zenobia, the queen of Palmyra (I think it is somewhere in Syria now?) who had fought campaigns against Julius Caesar.

    In India’s Islamic period we had ONE female leader — Sultana Razia. What difficulty she had to cling on to power even for as long as she did!

    From Mohammed and Khadija’s story, I conclude that Mohammed’s inflated ego was hurt by being in a marriage where his wife wouldn’t be submissive to him. Therefore he made it his life’s business to grind down his wives and women everywhere. What a disgusting person.

  12. William Burns says

    When were these images of pre-Islamic women produced? They don’t look contemporary. How representative were these women of ordinary pre-Islamic women? Why is it considered liberating for a woman to be a warrior? Did Muhammad’s sayings about women differ from the conventional male wisdom about women before Islam? A lot of cherry-picking here.

    • says

      The problem is, the history of culture and tradition of many regions were destroyed by the invaders and unfortunately if something was left was almost nothing but a few cherries. We find the evidences for women being warriors and goddesses. We at least can guess what kind of society let people worship women or let women to be warriors like men. The images of pre-Islamic period are not produced very recently. I used some reproductions. Muhammad’s sayings probably do not differ from the conventional male wisdom about women before Islam. But then we have to admit that Muahmmad was just an ordinary conventional man of his times.

      • William Burns says

        The worship of powerful goddesses has virtually no correlation with a high status for women, as can be seen in Hindu India or classical Athens.

        • sudhir kumar says

          For records:
          i) Hindus don’t have a dress code for women.(like christians have in bible)
          ii)ever heard of all the warrior princess from ancient India or Indian mythology? ..there are so many.
          iii) ever heard of ‘swayamvara’ , the right given to a princess to chose her own prince out of all the princes. Can you give even one example of such apractice from your ancient history?
          iv)Do you know, who was the first lady prime minister or head of a state on the planet Earth – Indira gandhi.
          v)now come back to modern India- Have a look ate annual Secondary exams results of India .. Girls have a much higher average than boys.
          vi) Out of 5 lacs Engineers India produces every year, 2 lacs are women. Check for statistics of your country now.

          • Gertrude van Voorden says

            Take care of your Dalits, before making such a claim of women friendly attitudes in India

          • Shefali says

            I agree that India needs to change the way the Dalits, etc., are treated. Hinduism has good and bad points. However, for every Hindu god there is a corresponding goddess, whereas in the monotheistic religions God is male. Yet little girls are selectively aborted in India because boys are considered more desirable. That being said, I think all the religions (Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism) treat women better than Islam.

      • Ikram says

        Taslima Madam,

        Nowhere in Quran or Hadith, Muhammad (PBUH) claimed himself to be a Suparhuman or someone supernatural. It has been mentioned in the Holy Quran in so many places that Muhammad (PBUH) and all other prophets were ordinary men choosen by Allah for special purpose. So you are right saying “But then we have to admit that Muahmmad was just an ordinary conventional man of his times.” Muhammad (PBUH) lived an ordinary life, faced all kinds of conjugal problems and shared all the problems instead of trying to hiding or misinterpreting.

        Your comparison between historic and present time arab zone women is pretty convincing (though authenticity of those drawings are questionable) for those who see things only on the surface. Do all the glorious histroric women represent all the women of that time? I think not. Exception can not be example. Pictures of women wrapped in black from top to bottom is also quite misleading. It is not how muslim women are told to wear Hijab. They should cover their head, bossom keeping face, hand up to wrist and foot open and they should not wear dresses that reveal curves of female body. On top of that, in Holy Quran, Men are advised to use and practice Hijab before advising women to use hijab.

        You quoted many hadiths, but you never mentioned that unlike pre-islamic culture, islam orders men to give “Den Mohor” to women during wedding instead of taking dowry, and it is a must for men. This is only one example. Since you have read hadith a lot, I hope you have gone through all those as well. Now, what talibans or others do is their own view. There are fundamentalists in every religion. No one should blame a religion for some tribe’s or group’s way of practicing it. I have read Mr. Abdullah Al-Saraireh cutting negetive remark about Jesus (PBUH) and Mr. BobHollyJr cutting counter negetive remark. Both of them are wrong. Throwing mud at each other is not good. But for Mr. BobHollyJr I would like to say that it is a part of our religious faith as muslims to regard and respect Jesus (PBUH) as one of our holy prophets and our faith links back to Moses (PBUH) and previous prophets. We muslims respect all the prophets.

        If you find it charming and interesting to humiliate Islam, you may. People have done so for ages and centuries. People did so against all the major religions. it’s not a big deal.

        Through this writing I would like to request all the bloggers to read Quran and Hadiths themselves instead of relying something that had been quoted out of context. Read both with open mind and cur your remark. Everyone can cut bad remark, but islam dislike this, because islam is a peaceful religion and it believes in peaceful coexistence instead of fighting. You will realize it if you read it all.

        May Allah bless us all.

        • Gertrude van Voorden says

          Could you let me know more about this Den Mohor. I would like to understand it more. And just to let you know, in no way do i agree with the comments many women made. As for the clothingdestructions where do those come from?

          • Ikram says

            Meaning of Den Mohor (Dower) :
            Meaning 1:
            Dower rights of women are mandatory in any Muslim marriage. In Arabic language it is called mahr, mehr or meher. It is a gift which becomes payable to wife immediately after marriage but before sexual intercourse. It is not essentially to be money but can be any valuable thing like property, ornaments or anything else which is agreed between the Muslim marriage partners. It is in fact a financial gain which the wife receives as a respect by virtue of the marriage contract itself.

            However, it is not a ‘bride price’ in any sense. The main difference between a dower and bride price is that former is paid to the wife while the later is paid to the parents. You can understand that the wife is not selling anything to the husband. It is just a token of respect and a part of financial rights of the women in Islam.

            Source : Quran & Sunnah ( http://quranandsunnah.blog.com/archives/608/)

            Meaning 2 :
            A settlement from the groom to the bride is a mandatory condition for all valid Muslim marriages: a man must pay mahr (donatio propter nuptias in Latin) to his bride. It is considered a gift which she has to agree on. The dower can be any value as long as it is agreed upon by both parties. When the groom gives his bride the dower, it becomes her property.

            Upon divorce, the dower’s disposition depends on which party initiated the divorce and the circumstances surrounding it. A woman whose husband initiates the divorce (Talaq) is entitled to keep her dower. However, if the woman initiates the divorce (in the procedure called khula), the circumstances of the marriage are dispositive. If the divorce is sought for cause—meaning, in an Islamic context, her husband’s abuse, illness, impotence, or infidelity—the woman is generally considered to have the right to keep the dower; however, if the divorce is not sought for a generally-accepted cause, the husband may request its return.

            The amount promised or paid to the bride forms part of her personal property and is of assistance to her in times of financial need, such as a divorce or desertion by the husband. While the Mahr is usually in the form of cash, it may also be a house or viable business that is put in her name and can be run and owned entirely by her if she so chooses.

            Source : Wikipedia

  13. Joseph Heston says

    I find it amazing that humans, who are supposed to be an intelligent species, is regressing instead of progressing. Won’t these male-dominated religions realize is that without women, there would be no humanity? Also to shift gears from Islam to Christianity, according to the bible, Jesus was supposed to be born of a virgin. Now where did the Y-chromosome came from? If virgin births are possible, wouldn’t the offspring be always female? When you get right down to it, all of the Abrahamic religions are misogynistic.

    • says

      Of course they realize that which is why the extremists of the three Abrahamic religions make all these laws to control women and their sexuality. Right now the religious right is passing all these laws to try to keep us homebound and pregnant and denying us control over our own bodies. However enough of us are not buying into this “god’s will” way of thinking and are refusing to return to the old ways…at least not without a fight. We’ll see what happens in November.

      • haris says

        tell me one thing why the woman is given less from fathers assets
        2. why tow women can give the evidence as equall to one man in Isllamic Law

        keep the rest at bay

    • Gertrude says

      Islam is not maledominated in its origin.Again and again it states in the Quran that women are equal to men. With in one place the addon: But men won’t understand that. The prophet also agreed to women being forced to wear the hidjab because men have too much filth in their minds. That said western science has found that men are 20 times more visual then women. Possibly the occupation by Male chauvinistic generals from Great Britain destroyed the power and equality women had in those times. Maybe women should strengthen their female brains and get empowered in their own way, have some compassion and empathy with this increased visual sensitivity by men. Our brains differ and whatever God must have thought that to be a brilliant plan.

      • secular says

        “The prophet also agreed to women being forced to wear the hidjab because men have too much filth in their minds. ” Of course he knew that because he carried such filth in his own mind. – marrying 6 yr old, layin teh pipe on his own ex-daughter-in-law. So his solution was to further restrict women in light of man’s filth and not with strong admonishments to men. “Islam is not maledominated in its origin.Again and again it states in the Quran that women are equal to men. ” do words mean completely opposite to some of you apologists to come up with this type ludicrous nosense?

        • Gertrude says

          Why comment if you have no knowledge? It was the wifebeater Omar who introduced the hidjab to be worn by force for islamic women. Aicha seems to get younger every day. Apparently what you miss is that this woman was a commander of an army and a scientific scholar, debater in salons together with the granddaughter of the prophet. That is not being an apologist, but being serious, taking time, investing in studying historic islam, what you clearly never bothered to do. As in the western world pedophilia, and childporn watchers on the Dark Web are on the rise, the youngest victim in the Amsterdam nursery case, just a baby of 19 days. there are more serious things to worry about then at what age the prophet married Aicha. As she was the daughter of his best friend and promised by birth to some man, who did not become a muslim, there may have been other reasons to marry Aicha. Most of the wives of the prophet proposed to him and not the other way round. As for who Mohammed truely was, i only have one answer, as always, i was not there, and the same question as always Were you?

    • Arual Drol says

      Well… the whole concept of virgin birth in humans in that day and age (before in vitro fertilization) in nonsense unless you accept it as miraculous and in that case you could still get a Y chromosome from somewhere because well.. it’s a miracle.

      • Gertrude says

        Not very respectful to comment on one of my comments with insults, not leaving a replymode. Just like many others commenting on social media, i base myself on articles read earlier and on studies done. Something you clearly lack. otherwise you would know virginbirths are still happening today. https://www.google.nl/search?q=rebecca+was+3+years+old+when+she+married+isaac&oq=rebecca+was+3+years+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l2.7563j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
        The age of Rebecca correlates with the advice in the Talmud, as read in an article. to rape a 3 year old girl or boy, whenever a man feels the lust. It also explains why she could not get pregnant at first, but later did. As for carrying water, here are some pictures of children doing that. Some of a very young age. https://www.google.nl/search?q=children+carrying+water+jugs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiM1uDJ2pPMAhVMuRQKHR3aDfQQ_AUIBygB&biw=1067&bih=503
        You assume many things. F.i. that my knowledge about islam is based on conversion. Which you seem to need to insult by putting CON suggestively in capitals. Also that i lack reasoning and am delusional. Personally i find any person who needs to insult elders of lacking any moral values and manners. Possibly the University of Amsterdam does not qualify for you. But i really am tired of this post and the off way of replies that lack any debatingskills based on facts and knowledge. And no i cannot vouch that Rebecca was 3 years old. None of us can vouch for anything for the simple fact that we were not there and that current historians informed us that our entire history of the past 2000 years has been forged and is a complete lie. I also cannot vouch for that Talmudic quote, i read it in an article online. With so many opposing theories of everything, none of us can vouch for anything but what one personally experienced and even that is a matter of perspective. Maybe you should attempt to read properly and try and understand someone commenting, or do your study and come with references and links to disprove certain arguements in a respective manner. At 65 i am rather tired of trolling. As it is i have ditched all religious labels/stigmas. Yes i became a muslim at one point, not because of conversion, but because the Quran was in line with my esoteric knowledge at the time and at least a book i could understand, unlike the rambling of the christian bible. As a woman i have no doubt i am equal to men, i walked my path and my pain and transcended all internalized oppression. As me i abhor wars, oppression and enslavement of others, as well as the trolling commentaries on social media, which denigrate intelligence and make the beauty of worldwide debates completely unvalid. In my world every person has freedom of speech and the right to their opinion and none have the right to harm others or to insult others or to lie about anything. The latter both advised by islam as well as judaism as i again read in articles. Your surname btw means ‘turd’ in dutch, with i saw fitting.

        • secular says

          Well I see your brief for Mo laying the pipe on Aisha @ 9, is Isaac laid the pipe on Rebecca when she was 3. Lady talmud, OT, NT, & Koran are crappy & vile pieces of fiction. Where as MO & Aisha are real historical people. Can you tell the difference between reality/history and fairy tale fiction? BTW just because you are 65 doesn’t mean you are automatically deserving of some intellectual respect. Your chronological age does not automatically bestow upon you any inkling of any wisdom. You sound more like a 4 year old who thinks Santa is areal white bearded FATSO. You became a muslim because you were too eager to trade in a set of superstition, bigotry, downright delusion for another set of the same.

          “Your surname btw means ‘turd’ in dutch, with i saw fitting.”, Wow. And you are complaining, when you are so adept in flinging turd around.

  14. lorn says

    The amazing part of how Mohammed changed the world is not that he imposed his own lusts and desired upon the women he desired and the surrounding society. Most people will try to impose their will. No, the amazing part in this drama is that eh surrounding society was so gullible and easily fooled that even with a manifest lack of proof he was able to claim to be the mouthpiece of God, and they believed it.

    Of course it seems that the history of credulousness is ongoing. A smooth tongue, a willingness to lie and manipulate, and the gall to do it without guilt or signs of deception, often brings both riches and acclaim. Done well enough, followers.

    • says

      There’s a movie out right now called “Kumare” where an American filmmaker pretends to be a guru and actually acquires a following some of whom stick by him even after he reveals his deception. If it could happen today it could certainly happen 1500 years or so ago.

  15. lpetrich says

    I’m reminded of how Christian apologists brag about how pro-woman their religion allegedly is.

    But where are all the female Christian religious leaders? They seem very recent, and in only some sects. Likewise for Islam. Where are all its female leaders?

    Susan Jacoby concluded in Freethinkers that US feminism has mostly been secular. Might that also be true of feminism elswhere?

    • Gertrude says

      Well done. Showing how gullible you are yourself. Feminism is another ideology introduced by the CIA to manipulate society. Gloria Steinem a paid CIA agent. Being secular does not protect a person against being totally brainwashed. As for female leaders in those early islamic times, you should have done your homework. Apparently according to an algerian muslim man, the advice of the prophet was to turn to Aicha for religious advice after his death. Still islam could be another krypto, fabricated religion. But it is lame to keep insulting muslims for what history teaches them. Pre christianity it was women who owned all the land. Many names of goddesses were changed into male names by the roman catholic church, whilst retaining the rituals and worshipping. When looking at the algerian revolution, algerian feminists were a complete and embarrassing sellout, totally siding with the french, who committed heinous warcrimes before.

  16. Jeremy says

    This is not true in any way, in the pre-islamic era things like infanticide were common, where girls were killed because families needed boys to do the work. Islam raised the status of women “Heaven is beneath the heel of the mother”. I’ve lived in arab countries and for the most part things like acid and people covering up their whole body is because people are uneducated, Islam encourages us to be modest not to cover up our entire bodies. Lets be realistic here with these “before
    ” and “after” comparisons, try and understand a culture before you try and look harder from your pedestal before soaking in this propaganda.

  17. kumarpradeeksha says

    Yes women had more freedom in pre-islamic period.So that mohamed first wife was a business women.

  18. says

    Good grief…. Where do I start? In some cases, you’re giving quotes without their original context, which can completely change the interpretation of a quote. Overall, your argument is purely based on your subjective interpretations. Take this for an example: “He was worried that his wives would attract the attention of other men. So he asked them to wear veils.” How does a husband wanting to protect his wives from the stares of other hungry men considered oppressive? You’re one line analysis did not sufficiently justify your view point. Just to make things clear, the veil was enforced in order to bring respect and honor to the wives of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.). Why is it empowering for women to walk around in bikinis but oppressive for women to cover? Tell me — aren’t the women in bikinis objectified? Quite frankly, aren’t they the ones that get hoots and hollers from men who only want to get in their pants? And this is all coming from a 17 year old hijabi who has experienced only the benefits of hijab. I am not oppressed and do not appreciate others who are solely basing their analysis on subjective interpretations to speak on my behalf. If you look at how the wives of the prophet actually lived, you can see that they had many rights.

    Don’t get me wrong; I’m all for expressing viewpoints and educating others. However, you’re giving people wrong information, which they are taking as truth. I can’t respect that on any level.

    • BobHollyJr says

      An apologist arguing about context, I’ve never see that before! I could easily go to any pro-terrorist koran hosting site and find the most reasonably worded interpretation of that passage, and in under five sentences, explain the hatreds and fears of the “profit” and of the pedophiles who transcribed it’s words. I use “it” to describe the asshole because it was an inhuman beast, not fit to be fed to swine after the slaughter!

      I see that you are not disputing the “Married a 6 year old” bit. or was she 9?

  19. md dawood alam says

    taslima whatever you have said about Allah and his prophets is totally absurd as you too know? lets see what will happen after your death,the day will come when your pen will stop working and your whole body will just like garbage then you find what is truth now you enjoy and become celebrity of foolish but definitely you will be a big looser if you don’t return to Islam its my challenge.. you just remember my name and time.. ok

    • Praagya Singh says

      Remember name and time?? Seriously?? lol 🙂 Getting personal ehh are we? 😛

      Okay a couple of trivia question for you – Do muslim apostates suffer any more/less in hell than those who were never muslims (Top grade Kaffirs)in first place?

      Number two – Do people get stoned for Zina in Jannah as well? There seems to be a lot of Zina going up there isn’t it?? 🙂

    • Gertrude van Voorden says

      As there is no force in islam and as what you write qualifies as a threat, either you are not a muslim or not a good muslim. Remember you can never know what someone may be like tomorrow. You always should greet someone with light and love and respect in your heart. You breech the most important advice of Allah, to never breed hatred against Allah, You just did.

  20. zack moe says

    So, just because they cover their body means they have no rights???????? Get urself a life and stop complaining about people faiths.Be Atheist and be happy.DONT PREACH IT

    • BobHollyJr says

      Because they are legally worth less than men, they have no rights. Because they are murdered for not covering head-to-toe in many islamic “nations” they have no rights. Because they cannot, by law, refuse the man that they are sold to, at age 9, sex, they have no rights. they cannot leave the house without a male relative to escort them, or they are killed.

      • Gertrude van Voorden says

        Islam guaranteed women’s right better then anywhere else in the world at that time. Do your history learn some facts and refrain from derogatory comments. And any woman of whatever age has to consent in the Quran to a marriageproposal. As for that age, 8 year old girls were forced to marry, without that option of consent, during mediëval european times. Over and over again the Quran states women are equal, with one add on, yet men will not understand this. And with women in those times being raped every 10 minutes, reason the hidjab was called for in the first place, having a male escort may not have been such a bad idea. And again in these times as many young women came to find, often it is not safe for a woman to walk alone in the Streets. She risks rape and murder whereever she goes at whatever time she goes. Rape in clear daylight, murder in a meadow when returning after having been to the disco. And these women are not wearing hidjabs, they are bright, modern brillant women, their lives stolen by men.

        • nana says

          so you admit that modern Islam is pretty much the same as european medieval times?well,that explains a lot.and if the streets aren’t safe for women with or without a hijab(trust hijabis get rape too) then thats more indicative of the ow impulse control of muslim men who are apparently hypersensitive to flashes of female skin….

          • Gertrude says

            Could not reply to your previous reply. Just grow up and if you do not understand what i am writing or what i mean, just keep silent and do your own studies. Do also your own empiric research. Wear a hidjab, then come back to me to tell me if you sense a difference like i did when i wore one. Nice and quiet, going from point A to point B without hassles, being whistled at, proposed sex to, by men. Also the incredible cohesion between women all belonging to the Uma. There have also been some designers with beautiful designs, hidjabs included. And in earlier times my dutch christian mother always wore a headscarf when going outside. Just like our dutch nuns wore clothing close to Niqabs or Burqas. Only their heads were shaven underneath, where covered muslim women are often gorgeous with matching clothing once inside the house/family. Modern Islam should be debated in terms of islamic scholars/scientists, universitytrained and No i do not mean extremist or fanatic imams as the american western ones are mostly biased and/or despicably hateful not respecting at all our dutch constitution where we have freedom of religion. I recently saw a docu that Roman Catholics suffered similar treatment in their foundation days in a protestant society as today many muslim do. Obviously you have no clue what pedophilic sexual abuse of children implies. If you really want to worry about how men treat children Google Fallujah birthdefects. Illegal weaponuse by the americans causing 50 % of pregnancies to end in abortions/miscarriages or serious birthdefects. Yeah we should be deeply ashamed about what happens in our name. And with the internet today we do not have the excuse of Wir haben es nicht gewusst, for we can all know it if we invest some time to read alternative media/truthseekers. Today there are innocent muslim men in Guantanamo, often tortured and/or imprisoned for years. Many are waiting for some western country to give them asylum. I am again deeply ashamed that my dutch government refuses to do so for fear Geert Wilders might object. Whatever you object to in islam, you can find very similar, just as fanatic, extremist, fundamentalist, zionist in christianity and possibly other religions. But you can also meet people with kind hearts who are members to any of those religions. It is not only dumb, but also extremely ignorant to judge people on their religion or to forbid them having theirs. We dutch fought hard wars to keep the privilege of freedom of religion. I am deeply embarrassed about the tone and the words this antiislam debate has taken pushed by many islamofoobs. Atheism or satanism are surely not better alternatives, where rotten apples are not found.

  21. Natasha Alexandria Sepehri says

    I am a Zoroastrian women. My father and relatives fled Iran during the revolution. I was born and raised in America. My mother is American. My interest in my culture has lead me to read much about the philosophy and principles behind Pre-Islamic Iran during Zoroastrian rule. I can say that IT WAS MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER FOR WOMEN. Any Pre-Islamic ancient history can tell you this much. We had rights, we had equal status, and we were educated. Ancient life for women wasn’t peaches and cream, don’t get me wrong. But the overall attitude towards the abilities of women was one of worth, of equal status. There are of course unintelligent women as well as there are unintelligent men, but women had way more opportunities to succeed if they could. I have no interest to visit Iran as it is today, that is not a country I am proud of. My roots come from Ancient Persia, I can tell this is where I get my fire from.

    • svensksvensson says

      Islam = Lies, Corruption, Dissimilation, Dodging of Historical Truth etc. etc. :(…Thank you for telling it as it is/ Kheily mamnoon!!! 🙂

      I am not Zoroastrian but I have 10 000 times higher respect for that religion compaired to Islam! 😉

      Khoda hafez 🙂
      /A Secular Christian or Atheist Guy

      • Gertrude says

        Really should do your research. According to some historians all socalled history of the past 2000 years is fake/false. Possibly islam was created by the Illuminati/the Vatican. But muslims are people like any other, with fanatics, extremists, and kindhearted people who live according to their cultural traditions. With the loss of cohesion in western societies, before strengthen and induced by religion, society becomes more unsafe. So possibly you prefer martial law as threatening in the USA or the 100 mile US border where they can search your computer, ipad, mobile or just about anything you carry. Israeli style checkpoints are not far away in the USA, apparently already ordered.

    • Gertrude van Voorden says

      Can you share some resources. I am interested. Am on this search to find what women were like in all cultures pre monotheistic religions.

  22. says

    What a bad comment on the part of my beloved prophet S.A.W who are you to judge him ?? You don’t have the right!! know first his bibliography before insulting him!! Or better just shut ur mouth up if you don’t have correct information about him!!

    • Gertrude van Voorden says

      Sorry you got hurt. But your response is not the correct response. Muhammed needs no defense and the world needs empowered women, who are able to maintain the light in their hearts no matter what the insults or lies. Spread the peace.

  23. amina says

    Your picture of ‘Iranian’ women does not represent the norm for Iranian women, in that this is not the type of clothing that the vast majority of Iranian women wear. Unless it is some type of parade where they are wearing special costumes, I’m guessing the picture isn’t even in Iran at all!

    If you are going to pass judgements about the world and condemn other people, you need to at least be accurate!

    • Ashwin says

      Dear Amina… These are of Persian Women from the Pre-Islamic era… Of course they do not resemble the cultural attire of modern day Iran or Turkey. Preislamic Persia had many cultural and trade ties with ancient India and there are many references to the traditions and culture of ancient Persia

  24. Gertrude van Voorden says

    So all of you. This is the way of satan. Create Thesis and Antithesis and make them fight and vilify eachother and they will gain total power over us. Agreeing to disagree. Correcting someone when you have better, more valid information. And always keep LOVE in your hearts. Islam is the only religion of heartenergy, intended and bend on spreading peace in this world of ours. Remember one of the first advises during the Ramadan. It is forbidden to enter into any conflict. A hard one to stick to, i know. At least try and refuse this intended separations of powers that thrive on that. Spread your essence, your beauty, peace and love, and build cohesion. For islam is about taking care of eachother, building communities and a nation larger then one tribe, larger then fictional borders of countries.

  25. Jackfrost77 says

    your assumptions are incorrect I studied this extensively at university the fact is that although pre-islamic arabia at one point was a matriarchy and goddesses had high status the roman empire changed all this when they conquered arabia as the ‘law of man’ replaced local laws.for instance men could only hold valid representation and such and so a patriarchy was formed there and everywhere.When mohammed made his reforms(call it religion if you want) he was between to very different society and the reforms he made did improve the status of women greatly.

    You can critique islam and religion all you want but ultimately its irrelevent patriarchy emerged ultimately not because of some vile gender conspiracy but because men were better biologically suited for the gathering of resources threw trade or war and so a natural patriarchy and dispensation of labor emerged it isn’t evil it is changing with the emergence of modern technological means and these reforms will continue for at least another century until we gain equilibrium fully.

    However you feel about the abrahamic religions the fact is Islam was the most progressive when it comes to women,women have right to property and equal pay as examples.no such thing exist in the bible

    • Gertrude says

      Study the ancient irish legends, and you will find you are totally wrong, off and insulting to women. WW II proved that women can practically do anything a man can do when the need arises. Before christianity it was women who owned all the land. Still the case in many indigenous cultures. All children get hypnotized with cultural values before the age of 6 and thus start believing they have to act in a certain way. In some cultures punishable by death if they don’t. Men, male foetuses are the weaker race and die more often. With pollution it is again women who are stronger and better equipped to survive. Gathering and hunting was not the privilege of men in many ancient cultures. Your argument has thus no basis but is the parroting of the beliefs your parents, society indoctrinated in you.

  26. Benjamin Clarke says

    This is full of generalisations. There have been plenty of powerful female Muslims throughout history, such as Chand Bibi and Malalai of Maiwand; just as much, I’d say, as the pre-Islamic Middle East. The Middle East circa 1000 AD was the most progressive area of the world, with huge booms in scientific and technological progress. Islamic literature, also, is quite respectful of women; look at the Arabian Nights. Obviously there are exceptions, such as certain passages in the Quran that require women to be submissive, but then again, variants of those passages appear in the Bible.

    Islam also ranges in its extremity and treatment of women. I would argue that Islam’s treatment of women reflects more of the culture of Muslim countries than the religion itself. Islam currently is at the same place Christianity was at in the Middle Ages; it’s fairly extreme and domineering now, yes, but it may improve. And stigmatising Muslims only leaves them behind as the world progresses.

  27. a human says

    This is on of the funniest topics I have ever read !!!!!
    I dont see any proof that women had more rights in pre- islamic period in what you said….
    so please stop throwing words without any meaning…..

    • Gertrude says

      Do your googling/study before you reply. They really did. In christianity women were owned by fathers, husbands, sons, or brothers of husbands or whatever men. Only the greek heterae, the female intelligentsia had some status. However Plato never included women to vote in his proposals. Most women were slaves anyway and if married locked up in their homes.

  28. syed hamid bayezid says

    spirituality is an integral part of the human being, be it man or woman. it is necessary that the divinity, centering around which spiritual experiences find expression, be without limits or boundaries. the divinity cannot be something whose essence can be encompassed by the mind.
    calling the divinity as a “she” is limiting its essence, because it inevitably presupposes an opposite.

    are feminists unable to view the divinity without limiting the divinity ? if so, then feminism debilitates human spiritual growth and understanding.

    • Gertrude says

      Feminism was invented by the CIA. So all women were duped in believing it was about their equality or empowerment. All people have free will. That includes choosing a spiritual path or not. With so much bla bla, hypocrisy in most religions/spirituality and possibly with pollution our airs with poisons, radiation EMF etc. this connection is really getting harder and harder to truely intuitively sense. All major religions have been infiltrated or are founded by krypto jews. Who follows alternative news knows one has to worry what those intending the NWO have planned for all those major religions.

  29. Bijoy Bharat Das says

    The name Islam itself means peace. Mohammed had ordered General Amnesty to all the kaffirs. It was a pagan custom to eat the liver of the enemy. But Mohammed (P.B.U.H.) asked his followers to eschew this. I do not know how the Taliban interpret Al-Qoran. But human being is “Ashraful Makhlooqat” the noblest of all creations and surely Allah cannot order killing of humans even if they are unbelievers. It is Allah who will change their heart.No amount of compulsion or rewards will do that. Truly Mohammed was a simple man chosen by Allah as his prophet.Quran does not deny existence of other prophets like Noah, Moses, Jesus, Iona etc. mentioned by name and also Rama Krishna Buddha unnamed. Stop this mud slinging and abstain from blasphemy. Wherever Allah had ordered infidels to be put to death, please see the context, the suras and the verses.

  30. muslim girl says

    taslima madam,
    all i can say is that taking things out of the context and portraying them as per your own wishes and desires does nothing but to prove that we ourselves dont know whats going on. i believe that if you would try to spend some time studying islam with an open mind then your blindfold will be lifted. and also try to interview those mslim women who are truly trying to follow islam and are successful in their fields too..try productivemuslims.com and you will knw what muslims are capable of !!
    i do the veil and wear the abaya AND i am a doctor,a writer and an artist!! does it sound like oppression to you? there are soo many others like me..

    i knw there are alot of blacksheeps among us trying to defame islam but truth will never be oppreseed…islam is the key to peace whether you want to believe it or not.. read about our prophet muhammad sallallau alaihi wasallam..and you will know wat love ,peace,tolerance is!!

    • Gertrude says

      Great all your achievements. However do not choose denial when it comes to the many problems, issues muslims have and create in western societies. Among those the Netherlands. They are disappointingly real and apparently impossible to find solutions for. Recently we had some documentaries about hijadis going to Syria. Girls, women lured to join men overthere often with lies how they can equally participate, to end up locked up in some house if they are lucky. We need muslims worldwide to join and judge what is happening in the islamic world, the radicalising of many youths.

  31. nana says

    @gertrude-maybe i dont understand what you’re saying because your thoughts seem to be all over the place.Truth of the matter is move to muslim governed country and then wear your so called hijab of enlightenment and see how life really is under sharia for women instead of sitting in your armchair in the Netherlands or wherever and spouting the tenets of a religion you neither understand nor have experienced as a daily part of life.What a religions holy texts say and what its followers choose to do are two entirely seperate things but in the case of the quran its followers aren’t that far off the target as evidenced by recent world events.Enjoy your cozy life while relying on the quran for “empirical” evidence.

    • Gertrude says

      @nana As you are trolling, you must be a troll. Possibly even being paid for that. The Israeli government invested millions in that. It is you who is all over the place and apparently even have no clue about why the hidjab was introduced and forced onto women. Some good study done on that by a female scientist. You also have a lot of presumptions, like i do not understand the religion. For that matter it is said in the Quran itself that understanding true sacred knowledge is beyond the human capacity to understand. Or that i was not a follower. You do not even understand the concept of empirical, which implies i was a follower wearing a hidjab. Also with CPTSD/DID/Developmenatal Disorder my life has never been cosy. Nor do i see life in western countries as cosy. You thinking that implies you have no idea about what goes on in western societies. Read the Franklin Scandal coverup by John de Camp. https://www.google.nl/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=john%20de%20camp%27s%20book%20the%20franklin%20cover-up or the belgian case Dutroux. You also seem to have little to no knowledge about the many warcrimes by americans or the Russians during WW II or in later wars. Or f.i. King Leopold in the Congo who slaughtered 10 million black people or made them into slaves, often mutilating them/torturing them. John Pilger does good docus, f.i. about the more then 72 invasions by the USA after WW II. Warcrimes in Iraq, warcrimes in Gaza. The islamic world simply does not have that capacity nor the weapons. And Isis is being supplied by american weapons, a sloppy accident??? or intentional. Emptying out middle eastern countries so that the Greater Israel can be founded?? As for Sharia you do not seem to understand the concept. It is not a static concept but always evolving. Nor does that imply that states forcing the Sharia are true to islam and/or doing so in the correct way. Much like Plato’s concept of Democracy never meant equality or included either women or the population’s lower ranks. Islam can neither be defined or limited by its followers as is stated too in some hadiths. And for the extremists and fanatics in islam, they have their counterparts in christianity and judaism. Human nature regretfully. According to a french newspaper Al Bagdadi founder of ISIS is a jew born to two jewish parents. Many truthseekers believe it was the USA who started this movement, just like they did Al Quaeda. All that said that does not exclude many muslim youths follow extemist calls for the jihad in f.i. Syria or elsewhere or that some practices of Sharia or childmarriage like in Yemen or Iraq are not despicable. Or that multicultural societies are not having major problems with integrationissues. Personally i worry as much about Bilderberg group. or Tavistockgroup or those intending to force the NWO on us. Or the call for populationreduction by f.i. Ted Turner, who proposes a reduction by 95 %, or Bill Gates who genocides with vaccinations and openly states vaccinations are good for worldpopulationreduction. At this moment Australia is about to force vaccinations on people or exclude them from childbenefits and taxreduction. The USA is about to also enforce vaccinations, which can sometimes be deadly or cause terrible diseases. Just google executive orders and find that americans have neither rights or properties and are themselves property by their very birthregistration. All religions have been infiltrated by and changed by krypto jews. Wahhabi islam was created by a krypto jew who faked his entire genealogy. And possibly the elite in power control the masses through religions, meaning all religions. Questions is whether there is a spiritual, divine basis in these old sacred texts. Science, theology has a hard time proving what is true in those and what is false, changed,later added etc. Although Mohammed can be proven to have existed, that cannot be said for Jesus and if Jesus existed never as the romantic white male pictured to us. Personally i no longer have an answer as to the existence of gods but still uphold people’s rights to their own culture and religion and think debates for abuses in that religion or the need for change should be done in a different tone of voice then yours. Islamic cultures have been robbed for ages, not in the least by their own, like in Saudi Arabia. The slaves in Kuwait are also a known fact, just as that most of Kuwaitis are spoiled brats who have no clue about sustainability or the implication of their rich lives. Which again does not necessarily mean they are bad in all ways. For apparently they do well in familylife. Do some reading on the Illuminati, their tactics of thesis and antithesis, maybe they you will understand why muslims and islam are made into the scapegoat to be ridiculed,, cartoonized by the entire world. Try find some docus by real muslim scientists who debate islam or the sharia. you could be pleasantly surprised. All this namecalling you are doing does not serve humanity at large and will never produce or lead to a solution. You can break with familymembers, but we cannot divide this planet into multiple planets or regions where muslims and those of other religions live separately, never having to deal with eachother. Maybe a religion like islam is the last vestige of familylife, cohesion and thus has to be destroyed by the elite in power so they can have the ultimate control.RFID chips will soon be implanted in every american, that will be the end of freedom. Not called Sharia, and possibly even far worse then Sharia. In Germany legal prostitution in large brothels is on the rise. Childpornography is everincreasing, including snuffmovies. Feminism was a farce, plotted by the CIA. At the cost of familylife and often not increasing female empowerment or equality. According to regular research women and men should not work more then 30 hours a week to meet their social obligations. With all genders having to work many more hours to meet their financial obligations, a lot of problems in western societies have risen. F.i. taking care of the elderly. Those in power are in power worldwide through their secret organisations. sects.cults.fraternities. Connect through all religions, countries, races etc. This is the last i will reply, for i do not enjoy or engage in this kind of biased discussions/mudslinging. Personally i believe wars are a waste and humanity should focus more on increasing sustainibility and cooperation between peoples or groups, whilst allowing others to be who they are, choose how they want to live their lives. Personally i believe there is enough for all but not for the greedy for which billions does not suffice.

      • nana says

        See what i mean?You’re rambling again and hopping from unrelated topic to topic.What does anything i mentioned have to do with war crimes or the illuminati?I’ve lived all over the world and trust me when i tell you that you need to LIVE there and EXPERIENCE life as muslim woman in a muslim run country before you can spout your mouth off about equality.The one thing i can’t stand is people who dont research what they choose to believe in and the validity of the likely biased info they get when they run to google as you encouraged me to do.Anybody can write anything Gertude.Just because its on paper or a screen doesnt make it true.In any case i dont wanna argue with you.There usually no point with people like you.Only time will tell.

        As to the original post,if you do he most basic research you can see that women had more social mobility before islam.Had khadijas success not predated islam then it wouldnt have happened at all because lets be honest,over the course of its existence what has islam done for women that women elsewhere havent already done for themselves?its not as if it gave them the right to bear witness in a court of law,the right not to be killed for being raped and nit having the luck to have two male witnesses nearby,nor the right to inheriting equal property.Gertrude mentions the alleged positive family life of kuwaitis and Saudis… have you ever LIVED in or with any of those families as a member and not a guest?i doubt it.Not everybody is bad but when the tenets of your culture and religion encourage certain attitudes its easy to do bad things to those you love in the name of some false righteousness.

        • Gertrude says

          You have lived all over the world?? So what does that prove and does it mean anything. You start of your reply with that i am rambling, just as you have started every reply in a negative tone and wording. Have i lived in those countries? No i haven’t. Visited Algeria but that is about it. But am living in a multicultural society, did a module islam at amsterdam university and was a muslim for over a decade and was married to an algerian asylumseeker for 7 years. Besides that did a lot of reading on women and islam. Not as a defense. Personally i believe everyone has the right to mingle in any discussion and should not be excluded. But i have really had it with all the trolling, seeding dissent that is happening on the internet in about every comment and the bashing/abuse of all muslims. And yes i believe that debate is organized by the Illuminati, although you lacking that study will not have that insight. So i did my extensive research and did read the Quran, dutch translation, which is not good enough i agree, but i do not speak or read arabic, about 5 times. Which is more then many muslims, who sometimes never read the Quran. Your reply that you do not want to argue with me because there is no point, contradicts your initial reply. For it was you who started this and not i. As for women having more rights prior to islam, that is untrue. There were many different societies in those days, including amazones with male slaves and tribes where women got their teeth bashed in for any action not approved of by men. I know the women you talk about, don’t have her name ready, know they had promiscuous sex, even when married and insisted on equality if joining islam, which was guaranteed by the prophet. i also know that besides khadidja most of his 9 wives proposed to him and not the other way round. I also remember a story about a woman fleeing her abusive brothers through the desert and being welcomed by the prophet. Personally i wished someone had bothered to translate the 2000 hadiths by Aicha as she corrected several of the now adopted hadiths by a man who was a former slave of those amazones. The prophet has not a favorable view of men in those times, as some of his quotes prove. As with all history i was not there and one can never fully or absolutely know what a person was like and what was the truth. But is is not only me. Several muslim women in this thread told you they were neither oppressed or abused.
          As for familylife in Kuwait i just saw this part of a docu about birth in different societies. Very interesting. The last one was about Kuwait by a belgian documentarymaker, with the same anxiety about muslim society as yours. For me not the first docu about women in arabic societies. And some are indeed very negative. F.i. The stoning of Soraya M. My point is that western christian societies, did not and do not behave any better. And women would be wise to chose their own empowerment, do their own research and start asking questions about why this defaming islam, the prophet etc. is taking place. Those cartoons in Denmark ordered by a jew should tell you something. An ex CIA worker telling the world that all events were false flags should also tell you something. You like many others are being manipulated and without criticism adopt all the memes western media feed you. You cannot state that women had no right to equal inheritance or needed more witnesses if testifying in court, without putting that in context. As for that matter, women had a right to inherite, which they did not in western, christian societies in those days, when they were always property to some male in the family. Aicha and the granddaughter belonged to salons, where they debated issues. Aicha commanded an army. She was a scientist. So wiser questions would be why and how has that changed throughout time. Not only in arabic, islamic cultures, but when reading irish legends, also in that and other western cultures. Christianity changed many names of female goddesses into male names as well as many practices. If you want a debate, with anyone, start of with respecting free will of the other and a feeling of connection in your heartbrain with the other. Do not arrogantly presume you are more knowledgeable or your point of view is the only point of view, let alone that western women have no right or place to enter this debate. When debating islam, the position of women, you are debating my neighbours, some friends and dutch multicultural society in general. Still hoping you have not sided with the likes of Geert Wilders, again of jewish origin, which he hid from the public. Women should not loose awareness of the many serious problems we are facing. Wars being only one of them. Geoengineering, GMO, vaccinations, worldpopulationreduction, false flags, issues that need our attention. When you are talking about preislamic women you are talking about the jahaliya if i spell that correctly, the worst fear of many muslim men. And from what i read i am not sure if they really were that positive. In the Bible it states that women had the rulership over jerusalem, but lost it because they started using magic. Maybe there is much more to what happened in the past then we currently understand of have true history downloaded to us to have an inkling. In the times of Abraham there were atomic wars. Now proven by finds of villages that are still radioactive. But never taught when teaching christian history in christian churches, where we were made to believe of people in those days as just being shepherds. What you see as rambling is my understanding that the position of western women has not improved with the coming/indoctrination of feminism. And that feminists sometimes played very bad roles, like in Algeria, where they sided with their occupiers, the french. As for rape. Sadly in scandinavian societies rapes has become epidemic and yes all done by muslim men, where before in those societies, which were very female oriented, there was no rape. In my view women need to learn to stand together, no matter what religion or lifestyle they chose or were downloaded through the hypnosis of their childhood/the indoctrination by their parents. That too needs to be healed, but we cannot wait for every woman to do so, nor is that likely to happen. People only change that childhood hypnosis if they cannot live with that programming, we are talking about severe trauma then. As for those amazones. To dump babyboys at a village, to be raised there, when born to them or to use men as slaves in not the kind of society i wish for either.

      • nana says

        oh,and that child porn you talk about,your beloved google has statistics that show most searches for child porn as well as bestiality are from where?surprise surprise…muslim majority countries and fittingly enough,those under strict sharia.

        • Gertrude says

          You have no clue about which childporn i am talking about. Read about the Franklin Scandal coverup. Know about the 1400 people, often on high levels,implicated in the UK, which are now being found out. Or about the young man from letland originally, who violated, abused, raped babies in the nursery in amsterdam he was working in. The youngest just 19 days. If your claim is that most childporn comes from islamic countries, at least supply a link to prove that and do not say things like that out of the blue. Here in the west, also in Australia we have serious problems with pedophilia. Maybe google children disappearances, like i did about a year ago. Or read about Chris Stevens stealing children in muslim countries to supply the elite with material for their satanic practices, childrape, murder, torture, cannibalism. Again as young as babies. And worse stories. But i guess you are too stagnant to really want to inform yourself. And that is your right in countries where free will, freedom of expression is still honoured. But sadly you seem incapable of respecting the rights to make their own choice for people, women included, in islamic cultures. Again like in the fake, false flag French Revolution, Thesis and Antithesis, put 2 groups against eachother and destroy them both to further your own gains, that is the motto of the Illuminati. Whether men or women or of whatever religion we are obsolete, called the empty feeders, time to eliminate us all. So think carefully whose side you are on or joining. I am the descendant of french Huguenots, slaughtered for their beliefs. Most or all of those heretic sects were founded by krypto jews. With the internet a lot surfaces about history, through which we can learn that we were never taught the truth in school, including about Hitler, WW II, holocaust etc. Women are not the better gender. But possibly it is only women standing together which can shift this negatively biased world strategy into more lifesustaining, respecting indigenous cultures as well as attitudes of how to steward this planet. Your socalled western democratic freedom has some very bad sideeffects. One of them being the falling apart of families, the loss of cohesion in all western societies, the rise of militaristic police, the fear for martial law and the not knowing what is really going on, Fema camps etc. As for oppression, i believe it is every person for themselves who has to liberate themselves from that, not always easy and sometimes costly to the point of paying the price of death. But like with the rapes in India, a countermovement has started, men included, which demands schooling for girls, women. On the other hand those in power start schooling projects, view the docu
          Schooling the world, where they genocide indigenous cultures and customs, forcing them to study in english, speaking about children, which will result in the loss of one’s own culture, the adoption of western culture, ultimately most likely leading to being either eliminated or subjected to total control through RFID chips. Watch Aaron Russo on YouTube. The western world preaching freedom is not free at all. Maybe watch some docus about Guantanamo bay and know that many people are imprisoned in the USA, using the Patriot act, without ever having a trial in court.

  32. nana says


    there you go.ive given you the bread.can’t chew it for you as well.Gertrude….jus read over what you just sent and then explain how you dont realize your thought process is a bit off to say the least.Also,im not at all anxious about islam…see unlike you i can live and let live.If aferall,like the quran says there is no compulsion in religion then im sure muslims who are unsatisfied can leave,right?without threat of death for apostasy,right?and if your answer to disturbing issues abt islam is going to be to point out ‘the west’ which i never brought up or cited as an example of shining brilliance then you are simply proving that you innately sense the lies withing what ypu choose to believe.Also,the illuminati and elders of zion as well as Hitlers ghost say hi.cheers.

    • Gertrude says

      You are really arrogant. You have given me the bread???? When you do not get someone’s way of thinking that person’s thoughtprocess is off?? And you state about yourself that you can live and let live?? Clearly not. What you mention about leaving islam is curious. For in the Quran itself it states Allah has no problem with that. It would thus be very interesting to find out how and when that got changed into calling out fatwas to kill someone, when leaving islam, or insulting the prophet. When you criticize a certain group of people, you also need to have the guts to do some introspection and judge if the culture you support is all that great or has faults within itself now or in history. Elders of Zion are those your peers? Then i get why you enter a thread like this. If you can live and let live then what is your issue with islam or muslims? What also is your strategy to return some cohesion to multicultural societies that were forced upon us, after we, the dutch, historically forced them upon others. I must say i had more affinity with a turkish girl going to some turkish islamic conference the other day then i have with you or your likeminded people, even when they supposedly belong to the same nation, culture, race and gender as myself. Hitler himself states in a vid that it was Roosevelt/the USA who started WW II. So i guess you are not in touch with his ghost but with a ghost entirely different. I won’t be reading any other reply. In fact i tried to get off this thread/page for months as it is just like always, ignorant people, incapable of debating and thriving on insulting/putting down others. Maybe you should leave the disturbing issues within islam to muslims themselves and focus on the disturbing issues within your own culture/nation. And if that is Israel. Then hear my point of view. Israel is an illegal state forced upon the international community on false premises. They committed warcrimes again and again even before it was ever founded and recently again in Gaza. Israelites never lived in Egypt, according to a new recent book and were just a small jewish tribe in Yemen. Ashkenazi jews are really khazars was again proven by recent research and even admitted by Netayahu with a proposal to send settlers to the Ukraine/the Krim, intending to make a third jewish state. You entering this thread has nothing to do with any support of women worldwide, but only serves those intending to destroy humanity. One advantage of trauma is that words like yours do nothing to me. And obviously my words are incapable of seeding any knowledge in you. With which i end this useless and fruitless debate.

  33. says

    It’s a shame you don’t have a donate button! I’d without a doubt donate to this excellent
    blog! I suppose for now i’ll settle for book-marking and
    adding your RSS feed to my Google account. I look forward to
    fresh updates and will talk about this website with my Facebook group.
    Chat soon!


Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *