Can we be done with Vox Day now?

This is not a competition, but I debunked Vox Day’s stupid evolution “disproof” in one fairly short written post. If you want a lot more, Gutsick Gibbon has put up a 3½ hour video that makes the same criticisms at greater length and with more math from Zach Hancock.

I listened to the whole thing while working on class stuff…at 1.5x speed. It was good, if verbose, but as someone who is not a population geneticist, I did learn a few details, so that was worthwhile. I haven’t been following her series with the creationist Will Duffy, because I’m on of those people who think he is disingenuous and dishonest, and he’s not worth the time, and I also think those videos are poor representatives of good science communication (way too long, with way too much time given to the lying twit), and I’d rather see videos like this one, where two smart educated people have a conversation. But apparently, Erika’s mother likes them, so that’s reason enough to keep doing them.

Vox Day’s amazing ego, and Bill Dembski don’t care

It’s been a long time since I paid any attention to Bill Dembski or Vox Day/Theodore Beale, but they seem to have found each other in an unholy marriage of stupidity. Vox has “published” a new article called MITTENS 3.0 — MITTENS is an acronym for Mathematical Impossibility of The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection — and it attempts to use mathematics to disprove evolution, using the data from the Long-Term Evolution Experiment by Richard Lenski.

It’s not really “published” in the sense of scientific publishing. There was no peer review, but just a dump of his assertions to an archive with no critical assessment. He compares the data from the LTEE to known divergence rates between Homo sapiens and chimpanzees, asking whether documented mutation rates in E. coli are sufficient to account for the 35 million single-nucleotide variation between two primate species. He says not.

The numbers are clear. At the non-mutator rate, 191 fixations can be accomplished in 252,000 generations. The requirement is 205 million. The shortfall is 1,075,000-fold.

Unfortunately for him, he exposes his methodology. He looks at the rate for a single mutation to go to fixation, divides the number of generations (252,000) by that rate, and concludes that there has only been time to accumulate 191 mutations. That’s true, if each trait has to wait for the previous mutation to go to fixation before it can be selected/drift to fixation itself. This is not how evolution works. Evolution is a property of populations and involves massively parallel action on multiple traits and individuals at once. Vox is using the typical simple-minded sequential estimations that simple-minded creationists have been using for decades to disprove their cartoon version of evolution. It’s ridiculous.

But Bill Dembski sees a naive “disproof” of evolution and decides that he and the author must be bestest buddies, and grants him a long interview in which Vox gets to thump his chest and gloat. Nowhere in this interview does Bill bring up Vox Day’s long history of coarse racism and ugly misogyny, nor does he bother to dig into the mathematics of Vox’s “disproof,” which is surprising since Dembski is purportedly a mathematician. Instead, it’s a long exercise in sucking up to Vox’s ego.

For instance, Vox has an undergraduate degree in economics and East Asian studies from Bucknell University, a small private liberal arts college. He does not have a science degree, and by his own admission he did not exactly apply himself to his studies.

Bill: You graduated from Bucknell University with majors in economics and East Asian studies. Please describe your training in economics in detail. What mathematics, probability, statistics, econometrics, or modeling did the program teach you, and which parts of that training have proved most relevant to your work on evolution?

Vox: My econ program covered all of those things except probability, although I didn’t take a course in modeling because my focus was on the historical process of development in late-developing countries like Japan and the Soviet Union. I did independent studies under Michael Moohr and Robert Chernomas, so my studies were a little bit more Marxian than was customary at the time. I would say developing an intuitive grasp of statistics, their limits, and how important it is to understand them contextually is what proved to be most relevant to all of my subsequent work, in games, evolution, and philosophy.

That’s not a very detailed answer. Any student who tells me that their achievement was developing an intuitive grasp of a subject is bullshitting me. Then he confirms it: Vox Day was a slacker who learned nothing in college.

Bill: Did you pursue any graduate study, professional research, or sustained independent work in mathematical economics or mathematics more generally after Bucknell?

Vox: None whatsoever. My biggest educational regret is not dropping out after my first semester sophomore year. I consider academic credentials to be a pointless waste of time. At Bucknell I seldom went to class and sometimes didn’t even bother buying the textbook. Once my professors realized that I was doing fine academically without doing the reading or attending the classes, they switched me to independent studies. I barely went to to a class my senior year.

He wishes he dropped out after his first semester, he seldom went to class, and didn’t bother reading the textbook — and he probably thinks that means he must have been a genius, rather than a lazy goof. It doesn’t speak well of Bucknell or his professors that they decided to get rid of him by putting him in a program of independent studies, rather than flunking him. I sorta sympathize with them. You get attached to your students and want to help them succeed, so you coach them through and design a limited curriculum that matches their abilities to allow them to finish the program. I guess we’re doing the students no favor if that just means their ego is stoked.

So if he has no background in or comprehension of biology, how did he write MITTENS? He explains it all:

Vox: AI did all the calculations and wrote the first draft of everything. It also provided about 750 of the 20 effective criticisms that improved the paper. I don’t think most people understand the first thing about the proper way to use AI to augment your outputs. If you don’t really know what you’re doing, AI will do nothing but defend its training and convince you that you’re wrong. I address this in great detail in Hardcoded, a book I wrote about the process of writing PZ and TFG.

[PZ is his book, Probability Zero, and has nothing to do with me; TFG is The Frozen Gene, another book he hacked together with AI. Isn’t AI wonderful? So many words, so much nonsense.]

Apparently the proper way to use AI is to hammer its outputs through multiple iterations until it tells you the answer you want to hear.

Well, but surely he had the work reviewed and evaluated by his colleagues? Nope, he has no colleagues. He has more AI.

Vox: My first, foremost, and primary form of feedback is from my Red Team. For all my papers, non-fiction books, and translations, I run them through a Red Team Stress Test comprised of ChatGPT, Deepseek, Gemini, and Grok instructed to take a hard oppositional stance. They produce detailed and extensive criticisms, most of which are obviously erroneous in some way, but even when incorrect, often produce new lines of attack. I seldom bother with human feedback. But both PZ and TFG were sent out pre-release to about ten volunteer readers, who ranged from a world-class physicist to a number of mathematicians with PhDs. I got some very good suggestions for improvement from a few of them, and even an Introduction and an Appendix from Dr. Tipler. But none of them had anything to add that fundamentally altered the work; I discovered and resolved the Kimura and LTEE [Long-Term Evolution Experiment] anomalies on my own after the fact.

Oh, well, he’s got the approval of notorious crank Frank J. Tipler, who has written multiple books on the physics of the supernatural and also writes for the Discovery Institute. So much credibility, wow. I’ll have to quote Wikipedia on Tipler to give you a little background.

Frank Jennings Tipler (born February 1, 1947) is an American mathematical physicist and cosmologist, holding a joint appointment in the Departments of Mathematics and Physics at Tulane University.[2] Tipler has written books and papers on the Omega Point based on Pierre Teilhard de Chardin’s religious ideas, which he claims is a mechanism for the resurrection of the dead. He is also known for his theories on the Tipler cylinder time machine. His work has attracted criticism from many, for example cosmologist George Ellis, who has argued that his theories are largely pseudoscience.

The bulk of the wikipedia article is about all the people who reject his nonsense. But sure, Vox Day has one supporter with legitimate academic credentials, that he was too lazy/incompetent to earn for himself. Otherwise, he’s just smarter than Kimura and Lenski.

He really does think he has disproven all of evolution all by himself, with a paper that contains all of 11 citations (a number I’d find unacceptable in an undergrad student paper that was much more narrow in its scope). Even worse, 7 of those citations are to the LTEE, and contradict his conclusions, and 2 are to ape genome sequencing papers whose authors would be surprised to learn how their work is being distorted. At least he has 2 that reinforce his argument, sorta, but they’re both also written by Vox Day.

So this is an argument made by an unqualified buffoon who churned it out of a battery of AIs, written with negligible knowledge of the scientific literature, and rubber-stamped by a couple of biased dorks from the Discovery Institute. But have no fear, his anti-evolution sentiment is not based on religious dogma at all.

Bill: To what degree, if at all, do religious considerations motivate you, not so much in the arguments you make but in the fact that you are making arguments against neo-Darwinism at all? In 2008, you published a book titled The Irrational Atheists, taking on what were then “the New Atheists” — Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, and Harris. They all lean heavily on Darwin to support their atheism. Did your religious leanings or your anti-atheistic leanings at all motivate your work criticizing evolution? Briefly, can you state your religious faith, whatever it may be?

Vox: Not at all. My faith is not based upon the historical origins of homo sapiens sapiens or any other species. I believe in material evil and I believe that Jesus Christ is the only thing standing between Man and his enslavement by that evil. I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God… In sum, I’m a Nicene Creed Christian.

And he has a flaming sword. Can’t argue with that.

The incredible self-annihilating creationist argument

This is an amazingly stupid argument.

This guy claims that he can disprove abiogenesis. He has two arguments:

  • Hydrolysis. All the molecules would be soaking in water, and water breaks down chemical reactions. He compares this to monkeys with typewriters, with the addition complication that they have to type in the rain.
  • Chirality. The typewriter has to be twice as big to accommodate both the left- and right-handed molecules, and if the monkey types the wrong handedness, the whole paragraph it’s typing is ruined.

I trust you can see the colossal flaw in his claim. If true, then no chemical reactions could occur in modern, living cells — all that water would be dissolving everything. If chirality was a problem, then no protein could be assembled without picking amino acids having the wrong handedness. The thing is, hydrolysis and condensation reactions are going on continually in the cell, and the whole system pivots on maintaining an equilibrium of disassembly and assembly. As for chirality, enzymes have extremely specific chirality requirements, and will only process molecules of one handedness — and only synthesize molecules of the necessary chirality.

To refute him, I only have to point out that he is mostly made of water, yet he isn’t dissolving in front of me, and that before he self-liquidates, his proteins are made up of only L-amino acids, and not a random mix of L- and R-enantiomers. This is basic biochemistry, and he doesn’t understand it.

Somebody may have confronted him with these facts, compelling him to slump into slimy racemic puddle years ago. H e hasn’t posted in over 3 years, and didn’t have more than 200 followers. Poor dumb creationist.

A discussion with Aron Ra

Aron Ra has been battling a particularly pretentious creationist who insist that he has evidence for creationism. Here’s the short list of his arguments:

  1. Taxonomically Restricted Essential Genes (orphan genes)
  2. pervasive molecular convergence
  3. upstream development gene regulatory networks cannot be mutated without lethal disturbance

Aron sent me a more thorough summary of his claims that I’ll include below the fold, but it was really a lot of pompous noise from a guy who had been gleaning scientific terms from the creationist literature, which he presented as evidence that refuted evolution and therefore, in creationist illogic, proved creation.

So we had a little dialogue about these claims. It could have been a debate, but the creationist ran away and refused to join the conversation.

[Read more…]

Shenanigans afoot!

AiG is losing their tax incentives, so they’re going through various arcane legal maneuvers right now to…it’s not clear. They’re trying to convince the city of Williamstown to build a fire station on a peculiar piece of property, surrounded by AiG land? They want to build a Tower of Babel attraction to get new tax incentives? They’re meeting behind closed doors with city officials? Nobody knows, except the overpaid officals at Answers in Genesis.

Seeing all the convoluted nonsense they can squeeze out of the Bible, wait until they’re done twisting the law.

A very polite inquiry

I received an email asking about eye evolution.

hi dear myers, im a turkish student. i study EEE but i have a deep profound curiousity towards evolution. i know that you mastered in evo devo. even though i didnt read any of your books since i live in turkey and could not find them.. i wrote an article in my own way concerning evolution and tried to express my feelings. im learning english by myself, i didnt want to use translator so you can see my sincerity and effort. to be honest i just wanted to express my feelings and get some advices and opinions from you, im just confused..

Here is the article i have written:

That’s perfectly acceptable English, so he shouldn’t be shy. However, as you’ll quickly see, he seems to think “article” is a synonym for “paragraph”. It’s not much of an article. I agree, he’s confused.

One thing about evolutionary biology that concerns me and feels unable to perceive is cells and organisms acting like as though they know what to do when constructing an organ.

That’s a common and fundamental misconception, the reading of intent and purpose into a series of events. Cells don’t “know” what they are doing — their genes are responding in a mechanical way to the environment. So error #1: trying to impose teleology on the system.

although it happens through blindwatchmaker situation, i still cannot grasp. for instance, an eye is a complex system and it feels like even though some may say it is a trial and error state throughout the evolutionary process it seems it happened with permission of a creator..

“Complexity”…that always comes up, and it’s irrelevant. Chance processes can easily produce complexity, and trial and error is an effective (if wasteful) way to build an eye. Natural selection and drift don’t need permission. They happen whether you like it or not.

it is still unclear to me a system like an eye whether it can build itself in such a short amount of time. cells behave as if they know which part they contribute whenever building an immense and flawless eye.

What is a “short amount of time”? Developmentally, an eye assembles itself in hours, days, weeks, or months, depending on the species, using nothing but physics and chemistry, and no one has seen the finger of a deity coming down to nudge cells into place. Again, it’s not about the cells “knowing”.

Oh, wait, he means such a short amount of time on an evolutionary scale? Silly. I’ve seen a zebrafish eye assemble in less than 24 hours, so I’m not that impressed with an eye organizing over hundreds of thousands of generation. It’s pretty cool, don’t get me wrong, and there’s much to learn about the process taking place from the pre-Cambrian to 400 thousand years ago, but it’s not an intimidatingly difficult thing to accomplish. It’s well within the power of evolution, and we have examples of the intermediate steps.

some may say there are genes such as HOX which responsible for the case i mentioned, its still unclear to me ,since i approach the problems as a philosophical problem..by saying “approaching as a philo problem” i meant digging deeper the origins of it..

i hope i could transfered my inquiries…

Oh god. Everyone babbles about Hox genes even if they know nothing about them — this is a shortcut the writer is using to pretend to knowing something about molecular genetics. He doesn’t. You know, you could at least say Pax genes instead of Hox, since Pax is more directly relevant to eye development. Hox genes are patterning genes that define segment identity along the body (or limb) axis, while Pax genes are involved in tissue differentiation and organogenesis.

It’s especially bad to trot out the sciencey word “Hox” just before telling me you approach eye evolution as a “philosopphical problem.” I don’t care about your philosophy, I want to know about the material process, with evidence. Philosophy in this case is simply his efforts to make post-hoc rationalizations for his preconceptions — he’s giving philosophy a bad name.

Darwin came up with memetics?

Oh boy, chew on this comment on my YouTube channel:

@Toytime-TV
I Got you PZ…It goes like Yah, Darwin noticed adaptation and developed an expansive theory to encompass his study of that progress in an attempt to understand the nature and origin of creation because the vastness of his theory held millennia of time spans causing him see patterns and repetition throughout the ages, which caused him to then develop the theory of memetics, which sir truly is the language of the divine as it can only be understood over long periods of study, causing one to MUST believe in an Originator of the system of sequences he had uncovered. Most of your smartest people throughout all of time held the belief of a creator, even if they loosened the ideology and imagery. You can believe too PZ, being a smart man like you denotes, you must. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmgYIzpSGgk

Don’t bother with the included link: it’s just an old one-eyed man dancing. No real content.

This is somehow a reply to my video in which I said that evolution wasn’t simply made up by some guy, Darwin. The comment starts out OK, saying that Darwin developed a theory to explain what he observed in nature…but then they go on to say that Darwin invented memetics (not true, you can blame Dawkins for that one), and that it is a divine language and that you MUST believe it originated in a creator. I think we’ve all heard that before. Then they tell us that the smartest people throughout all of time held the belief of a creator, and concludes with a little flattery that being a smart man I must also believe.

I guess I’m not as smart as @Toytime believes, because that is a load of horseshit.

Jeanson sinking deeper into the swamp

Portrait of a pseudoscientist

Nathaniel Jeanson, that incompetent “geneticist” who was employed by Answers in Genesis, has a new gig: he has been hired by Columbia International University as a visiting research professor. This is not a step up in prominence. It’s actually kind of a step backwards, but the creationists will crow about the words without recognizing the meaning.

A “visiting research professor” is often a prestigious appointment, but it’s not an effective research position — it’s more of an attempt to bring a big name into connection with a university, and possibly forge new partnerships (Note: Jeanson is not a big name, except to the intellectually impoverished creationist community.) I’d be interested to know what the quid pro quo here might be, because he’s not going to improve the reputation of CIU.

Curiously, if you read that announcement from CIU, there’s no reference to Answers in Genesis anywhere in it. They name-drop Harvard and the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, but the noisy loud creationist/Christian organization that has been associated with him for years? Not a whisper.

It’s unclear what they are going to accomplish with this appointment. He is still employed at AiG, they don’t discuss what his teaching duties will be, other than just talking to students. This is purely an attempt to swap titles and connections, but CIU is going to do this without openly acknowledging AiG.

This is also not going to help Jeanson’s career. CIU is a private Christian college that used to be called Columbia Bible College. It requires a whole lot of fundamentalist bullshit to graduate from there.

There are seven doctrinal points which students must consent to as a part of their admission to and candidacy for a degree from CIU. These are biblical inspiration, natural separation of humanity from God, salvation by grace through faith in Christ, the historical doctrine of the Trinity, the bodily resurrection of Christ from the dead, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer, and the evangelical mandate to witness to the gospel of Christ. The doctrine of Premillennialism is officially held by the school, but students are not required to adhere to this doctrine. CIU requires all teaching faculty to affirm Premillennialism.

That’s a fake school. It’s a Sunday School with delusions of grandeur.

Anticipating Kent Hovind’s next wack-a-…what?

I’ve been featured in Kent Hovind’s regular Wack-An-Atheist nonsense, as have many other opponents of creationism. Now a different person has criticized him, Dan McClellan, a bible scholar, who points out that no, the bible does not discuss dinosaurs.

Ol’ Kent is going to have to flail about a bit in response, and I’ll be looking forward to it. I’m going to predict that what he’ll do is declare McClellan to be an atheist by default.

Also, I despise those tik-toks or whatever that feature someone just smiling and nodding along, but making sure that their face is on screen the whole time. I’ve seen a few lefty videos like that. Speak up and contribute something!