I’ve started on a bottle of wine

It’s the only way I’m going to be able to survive this debate.

First question to both: do you think you’re a good role model for children? Clinton answers with her goal to bring people together; Trump babbles like a man on quaaludes about the trade deficit, people getting shot, fixing the inner city. HE DOESN’T ANSWER THE QUESTION. Weird.

Asked about the #trumptape, his answer is it was just “locker room talk”, but look! Over there! ISIS is chopping off people’s heads! ISIS, ISIS, ISIS.

Good god, he’s awful and incoherent.

Clinton responds: he’s unfit, and this is exactly what Trump is. Points out all the groups he has denigrated over the course of this campaign.

Waiting for Trump to explode.

Trump: it’s just words. He’s going to help the African-Americans, the Latinos, and Clinton has done nothing. Sniff. Sniff.

New question: Trump says the campaign changed him. When did that happen?

Trump: That was just locker room talk. Bill Clinton was worse. Hillary Clinton laughed at a victim of rape. Sniff.

He doesn’t answer the question again!

Clinton: When they go low, we go high. The audience can judge whether he respects women. Trump never apologizes. Cites several of his attacks and racism that he never apologized for. You owe the president an apology.

Trump: No, you do. Emails. Emails.

Then he threatens that, if he wins, he’s going to get a special prosecutor to go after her.

Clinton just smiles. Tells people to go fact-check him at hillaryclinton.com, and that it’s a good thing Trump isn’t in charge of the legal system.

Trump: Because you’d be in jail. She’s getting to him.

Christ. He just keeps interrupting and whining. It’s one on three, he says. He’s a bullying coward.

Next question: What will you do about Obamacare? Clinton responds with a discussion of what’s work and what needs to be fixed. Trump: “it’s a disaster”. No details. Sniff. Canadian health care is so awful. He just keeps repeating that disaster word.

Next question: how will you help Muslim Americans deal with rising islamophobia?

Trump starts talking about how Muslims have to report terrorists. Radical Islamic Terror!

Clinton points out that Muslims have been in America since the Revolution, mentions Capt. Khan, who gave his life for the country. It’s dangerous to engage in the demagoguery Trump indulges in. Says we’re not at war with Islam, and it plays into the hands of the terrorists to do as Trump does.

A question to Trump: What about your claim that we need a total ban on Muslim immigrants? Trump now calls it “extreme vetting”. Clinton wants to allow in more Muslims! 100s of thousands of people!

Q to Clinton: you propose allowing more Syrians in. How can you justify that risk? She says she’s not talking about allowing risky people in, but is not going to ban people on the basis of their religion, like Trump wants.

I need more wine. Trump is such an asshole.

Tax cuts. Trump says he’s going to reduce taxes for everyone. Clinton says she’s going to raise taxes only on people making over $250K.

Did Trump avoid paying federal income taxes? He took advantage of tax loopholes, like Buffet and Soros…refuses a direct question to say how many years he avoided paying federal taxes.

Somehow he’s talking about ISIS again.

Clinton was a disaster (his word for the evening) as a senator. Clinton recites a long list of her accomplishments in office.

Fuck. If Trump says “disaster” one more time…

Black man asks a question. Trump responds with “inner city” and “disaster”. Fuck him.

“Would you be a disciplined leader?” Trump can’t even be a disciplined debater.

Supreme Court: Clinton will appoint judges who support Roe v. Wade, and marriage equality. Trump will appoint someone like Scalia. Enough said.

Energy policy: Trump says we have “clean coal”. Damn the EPA. Right.

I give up. Can’t take no more.


  1. Petal to the Medal says

    My way of coping with the debate is to go to a room that has no TV, connect my noise-cenceling headphones into my iPod, & listen to my “Alienation” playlist. To each his own.

  2. slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says

    locker room talk
    even though it was not in a locker room
    and on a media sponsored bus. was the microphone not obvious?
    you know what locker room talk really is? disinhibition. where people let their mouths run freely without first considering.
    so all his locker room talk is the opposite of an excuse, but a glimpse of his actual attitudes.

  3. grendelsfather says

    Apparently, premiums and copays never went up before Obamacare. Good to know.

  4. says

    Cross posted from the Moments of Political Madness thread.

    Hillary Clinton is doing very well. She offered facts in her answer about fixing Obamacare.

    Anderson Cooper actually managed to bring Trump to heel a couple of time.

    Trump foolishly attacked Anderson Cooper once, and he continued to interrupt Clinton after being asked to refrain from interrupting.

    Ken Starr spent about a billion dollars of taxpayer money prosecuting the Clintons. He did not put either one of them in jail. That was in the 1990s.

    Donald Trump is now reintroducing all of Ken Starr’s failed accusations.
    No matter what mistakes or sleaziness took place in the 1990s, I don’t see how Trump’s approach is going to work to his advantage.

    Donald Trump is sniffing again.
    And he answered the question about his “locker room talk” by saying that ISIS cutting off heads is worse, as PZ noted.

  5. robro says

    So he’s sniffing again, unh. Another bad mic?…right. Actually, the way he was talking on that 2005 tape sounded like he might have been running lines. Typical Hollywood fashion, you know. It tends to loosen the tongue and the ego. I wouldn’t be at all surprised that he has a long standing habit. I also expect he’s a drinker.

    Actually, the way he seemed to fatigue at the end of the first debate suggests someone who was getting to far from his last little pick-me-up.

    “Locker room talk” is the mantra the Fox pundits came up with to gloss over this. Locker room talk isn’t appropriate even in a locker room. And besides, he’s running for president, not BMOC.

  6. slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says

    They need to keep his mic off when he is supposed to remain silent.

  7. slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says

    Big mistake to make these “debates” more casual. A little more rigidity formality, where each speaker is given the single working microphone during their response period, to be handed to the opponent for response, with a buzzer indicating end of time limit. If speaker is in the middle of a terse sentence, let them finish the statement, then *click*.

    Trump is continually overspeaking Clinton and arguing with the moderators about Clinton exceeding her time by seconds when she is actually answering the question. He rants and complains about the current subject of the question when ask for his proposed solutions. He just complains about the situation while never offering any proposals. He rants and raves and usually overruns his allotted time, bigly [his word].

  8. slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says

    re 11: I left out a phrase.
    I meant to say the formality would be an improvement. That bold phrase was inadvertantly ommitted from 11 (distracted by listening to the Drumph-rants).

  9. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Sounds like a good thing I’m planning on downloading the debate from Youtube and watch it when both the Redhead and I are not eating dinner.

  10. says

    Wine sounds like a good idea. Husband is wallowing in cable political news, and I’ve been hiding in the back of the house with Patches. So far I’ve watched more of my online class videos while taking notes, then sorted and put away all the clean laundry while listening to the local classical music station. I can still hear the debate, but at least I can sort of tune it out. Next I’m making a fresh batch of nectar for the hummingbirds. I’m also rereading the Newsflesh series – politics, government conspiracies, and zombies. And yet, still more fun than the real world tonight, and almost more believable.

  11. slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says

    Wonder if Seth’s Closer Look (Seth Meyer) will highlight Drumph discussing 33 thousand deleted emails, which in his final accusation increases it to 39 thousand. With no emphasis, just casual mention of the number.
    Also when asked to apologize for his lewd talk, Drumph immediately went after Bill Clinton. Essentially excusing himself with “he did it too”, without ever directly answering the question.

  12. says

    Did anyone else wonder from what conspiracy theory sewer Trump dredged up the idea that Hillary Clinton used some kind of technologically wonderful “acid wash” to delete her emails?

    Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump falsely claimed Clinton “acid washed” 33,000 personal emails to delete them, calling it “an expensive process.” // The FBI said Clinton’s tech team used BleachBit, which is a free software program. It does not use chemicals.


    Associated Press: “TRUMP: “When a secretary of state illegally stores her emails on a private server” // “THE FACTS: Clinton’s use of a private server to store her emails was not illegal under federal law.”

    Factcheck.org: Trump said Clinton ‘illegally’ stored emails on her private server while secretary of state, and deleted 33,000 of them ‘so the authorities can’t see her crime.’” // “The FBI on July 5 cleared Clinton of wrongdoing, and found no evidence of a cover-up.”

    CNN: “Trump asserted that Clinton’s private email server was hacked when she was secretary of state.” // FALSE

  13. asclepias says

    I abandoned it about 45 minutes in. Went up to my room and drowned out the rest with a couple of episodes of Frasier (other people still listening). I’ve decided who I’m voting for, so I don’t need to raise my blood pressure.

  14. says

    FACT CHECK: (C) on a government document stands for “confidential”. Not classified. [from Tom Winter]

    The letter “C” meant “colored” when Trump and his daddy were profiling tenant applications. [From Larry Wilmore]

    All political events have a plan for hecklers. But it’s hard to prepare for one of the participants in the events doing the heckling. [from Rachel Maddow]

  15. says

    Martha Raddatz actually did a small amount of fact-checking. Expect Trump and all of his followers to complain bitterly about that during tomorrow’s news cycle.

    We already saw Trump complain during the debate that Anderson Cooper and Martha Raddatz interrupted him more than they interrupted Hillary Clinton. That might be because you so often weren’t answering the question, Mr. Trump … and/or you were interrupting when it was not your turn to speak.

  16. cartomancer says

    I’m not sure why I sat up until 3.30am on a Sunday to watch the whole of this. I’ve never sat through a whole Donald Trump segment of anything before, and I suppose I just wanted to enjoy a little bit of schadenfreude as the puffy orange one was confronted with the collapse of his entire bid to be your king. Didn’t prove to be nearly as fun as I had hoped.

    You don’t have much by way of moderators, do you? I can’t imagine a Dimbleby or a Paxman or Stephen Sackur letting Trump get away with all that blather. And they only confronted him once, towards the very end, with some half-hearted speculation about possible reasons for strategic decisions in Iraq. I’m not used to such deference among TV news people toward politicians.

    Perhaps I’ll wait until November for my schadenfreude fix, to see how he copes with a crushing defeat.

  17. What a Maroon, living up to the 'nym says

    Back when I used to watch TV News (Channel 5 in Boston about 35 years ago, with Chet and Nat), Martha Raddatz was my favorite correspondent–she always struck me as intelligent and serious. Good to see that she’s still going strong.

  18. says

    Trump once again argues the Clinton campaign started birtherism. Still not true. [from Sara Murray], Reference link, “No, Hillary Clinton did not start the ‘birther’ movement.

    LIVE FACT-CHECK: Claims that Hillary Clinton started, pushed the birther movement False. [from PolitiFact]

    Fact check: Donald Trump’s ridiculous claim that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement [from Sarah Parvini] Washington Post link.

    The claim that Clinton was in any way involved in the birther movement is patently false. [from WIRED]

    Donald Trump says that “in San Bernardino, many people saw the bombs all over the apartment.” That is not true. [from BuzzFeed] Link

    FACT CHECK: No law enforcement source I have talked to said there were Muslim neighbors of the San Bernardino terrorists that saw something. [from Tom Winter]

    LIVE FACT-CHECK: Trump’s claim of a neighbor seeing something in San Bernardino, not reporting it is False. [from PolitiFact] Link

    “Many people saw the bombs all over the apartment in san bernardino.” A complete and total lie. Never happened. [from Kurt Eichenwald]

    There is NO evidence that there were bombs all over the apartment of the San Bernardino shooters. Trump just casually says that all the time. [from Sam Stein]

  19. mumbles says

    Trump doesn’t deserve to step foot on stage with Hillary Clinton. You might as well put me up there, to just babble while she states everything clearly. Just boo loudly, and throw things at me if that ever happens.

    I’m still worried about what’ll happen in 2020. But for now, I’m a bit happy.

    I don’t want to say that Hillary has it in the bag. In truth, there is no bag. However, I do feel somewhat confident.

  20. says

    Rudy Giuliani is on the air claiming that the moderators gave Hillary Clinton more time to talk than they gave to Trump. False. Trump actually talked 1 minute and 5 seconds longer than Clinton (and that is not counting all of his interruptions while Clinton was speaking).

    Giuliani says the moderators were biased.

  21. Menyambal says

    Watching “Sharkboy and Lavagirl” with a person who loved it as a kid. Sounds less surreal than the Trumpery.

  22. says

    From President Obama:

    One of the most disturbing things about this election is just the unbelievable rhetoric coming at the top of the Republican ticket. I don’t need to repeat it. There are children in the room, […]

    But demeaning women, degrading women, but also minorities, immigrants, people of other faiths, mocking the disabled, insulting our troops, insulting our veterans that tells you a couple things. It tells you he is insecure enough that he pumps himself up by putting other people down.

    Not a character trait that I would advise for somebody in the Oval Office.

    Bold emphasis is mine.

  23. says

    On social media a lot of people are posting screen grabs of Trump looming over Hillary Clinton, of him walking up behind her and hovering way too close.

  24. mumbles says

    Y’know what?

    Screw Rudy Giuliani. He’s no alter boy. 9/11 humping (grumbles angrily).

  25. says

    Hillary should throw Bill under the bus, but handcuff him to Trump first, thus:
    “Mr Trump you appear to be confused about which Clinton you are running against. If your point is that you and Bill are a couple of misogynists, I don’t have to defend either of you.”

  26. quill says

    I agree with a number of commenters above: When the time limit expires the microphone of the candidate whose time is over should turn off.

  27. ragdish says

    She praised Ali ?

    But she was no Ali tonite. She did OK but it wasn’t the Ali knockout we all hoped for. The orange haired gnome was giving the presidency to her on a silver platter. She could have buried him tonite but she didn’t. Why?

  28. says

    I saw a few minutes of the movie Thirteen Days to other night. I’ve watched it a couple of times because I enjoyed it.
    But what struck me was the thought of Donald Trump being in the same position as JFK.
    I think we would agree that what was left of the human race today would still be suffering in a nuclear winter.
    Because there is no way that bully would have been able to think or negotiate his way out of that situation.
    And that sums it up for me.

  29. mumbles says

    It’s a bit funny to see folks objecting to the moderators for not stopping folks at 2 minutes.

    I don’t care.

  30. Menyambal says

    Wow. Donald has to insist that he is the best at respecting women. He doesn’t offer any evidence, he just says that nobody has more respect for women than he does. Which, if we get meta, means he respects women more than they respect themselves. In any case, he is the best.

    Seriously, does the guy not have an Id? Is he just Ego? He doesn’t seem to think about what he is going to say, not even to the extent of crafting a sentence, but damn, he is proud of himself.

  31. Azkyroth, B*Cos[F(u)]==Y says

    New question: Trump says the campaign changed him. When did that happen?

    Whenever he started to smell funny and was crying?

  32. birgerjohansson says

    The debate happened when Europeans were asleep, so we have been watching replays of the juciest segments. U-ullp.

    When I was repulsed by some especially gross incident in Beavis and Butt-Head, I knew that it at least was not for real, so I could watch it with a clean conscience.
    This is like watching a road crash site with paramedics rushing to and fro. I feel embarassed when I watch, although I know it is irrational for me to feel embarassed on the behalf of Trump.

    I would like to believe that this is the beginning of the unraveling of the vulgo-conservatives.

  33. anthrosciguy says

    If the Canadian healthcare system is so very bad, why did Sarah Palin sneak over to Canada to get healthcare?

  34. Trickster Goddess says

    @ 8 robro

    I also expect he’s a drinker.

    Actually, according to a library book I’m currently reading, (Trump: A Graphic Biography by Ted Rall), Trump doesn’t drink due to his brother, Fred, Jr., dying from alcoholism at an early age. Junior wanted to be a pilot but was forced into the family business. His heart wasn’t in it, so he didn’t do well and was given a hard time about it by Dad and took to drinking.-

  35. anthrosciguy says

    Ragdish, If Hillary Clinton is too hard on Trump, the talk is about how bitchy she is.

  36. philhoenig says

    I wonder if it would be easy to set up some sort of filter to, say, start raising the pitch of someone’s voice when they speak out of turn. The more and longer it happens, the more ridiculous they sound until eventually they can’t be heard at all, except by bats.

  37. jrkrideau says

    I was just trying to imagine Trump on a visit to the UK or Germany.

    President Trump meets for a cozy conversation with Prime Minister May. In the background, various presidential and prime ministerial aides and a small squad of SAS in full battle dress to protect the PM from molestation.

    Proceed to Germany, small squat of the GSG 9 in the background feverishly reading the rules of engagement—shaking hands is acceptable?—as Chancellor Merkel and President Trump enter from opposite sides of the room.

  38. dannysichel says

    robro@8 – for all his many many many other flaws, Donald is not a drinker. His parents were alcoholics, and his beloved older brother was an alcoholic who died young. As a result, Donald is a teetotaler.

    He bought his son a vineyard, and licensed his name for vodka, but doesn’t drink the stuff himself.

  39. says

    Trump doesn’t deserve to step foot on stage with Hillary Clinton.

    This is true, and it’s galling to have to watch this spectacle and see people discussing this hairball the Republicans coughed up as a plausible president. I’m torn between anger over this and seeing the whole situation in the terms of a children’s book or maybe video game. To reach this great accomplishment, Clinton has to face decades of obstacles, threats, and attacks. On the precipice of the presidency, she faces her final test – an absolute ogre, the embodiment of the backlash against equality and social justice, who incites others to destroy her and threatens to throw her in a dungeon, surrounded by screaming mobs chanting “Lock her up!” and subsidized by shadowy powerful forces.

    I was watching the debate with a friend, and at one point when he was looming behind Clinton I had a moment of fear and my friend at the same time said “He’s not going to assault her, is he?” I was thinking how the Secret Service would have to be right there. How insane is it that people have to think about securing a presidential candidate against her opponent?

    Breaking news: Paul Ryan has announced that he won’t be defending Trump and will focus on down-ballot races.

  40. says

    I’m torn between anger over this and seeing the whole situation in the terms of a children’s book or maybe video game. To reach this great accomplishment, Clinton has to face decades of obstacles, threats, and attacks. On the precipice of the presidency, she faces her final test – an absolute ogre, the embodiment of the backlash against equality and social justice, who incites others to destroy her and threatens to throw her in a dungeon, surrounded by screaming mobs chanting “Lock her up!” and subsidized by shadowy powerful forces.

    Holy shit – John Oliver used exactly the same analogy on his show last night! I swear I was saying it to my friend just before the debate, and that she’s not Sean Hannity.