Pope Francis has a new book out. Ever wonder what he thinks of trans people?
The head of the Catholic Church has claimed people who ‘manipulate’ their bodies are similar to ‘Herods’ that ‘destroy, that plot designs of death, that disfigure the face of man and woman, destroying creation.’
Now you know. He also seems confused about genetics, gender, and nuclear bombs.
"Let’s think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings, the pope writes. "Let’s think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation."
Fascinating. Also, nice because I can say I told you so — I didn’t trust this smilin’ fascist from day one.
Relatively minor quibble: this Pope really doesn’t seem to understand the “order of creation” he pretends to defend. Hasn’t anyone in the Vatican told him that some people are BORN with a mix of “male” and “female” features? That’s part of the “order of creation.”
Another thing people are born with: birth defects. Does the Pope also oppose all attempts to correct such defects using technology?
Hey, what gives?! What happened to the “Who am I to judge” stuff?
I agree. A lot of trans people are definitely da bomb.
But why is it only transitioning that is so bad? Aren’t there other way of changing one’s body that are also manipulating God’s creation? Like having a tumor removed?
Oh, but he says all this while smiling. He smiled benignly when he wrote it.
For some people, that’s enough. He has faith and faith is a benign smile.
While we’re thinking of “the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings,” let’s also spare a moment to consider the glorious coming time when Jesus will purge the earth of the wicked so that they may be delivered into Hell. Oh, the blood and fire, the wailing and gnashing of teeth, the mass destruction and suffering! Sorta makes that nuclear war thing look like small potatoes, don’t it?
Perhaps the Pope doesn’t quite understand the lingo. He may have intended to mean that, ‘Trans people are da bomb!’.
Damn you Saad.
I suppose it will not help telling him that those christians who do textual criticism of the bible for a living (comparing old manuscripts, woking out which texts that have been inserted later) consider the part about cruel Herod freaking out in Bethlehem to be rubbish?
.
Also, if gay people are nuclear weapons, we can use them to power my “Orion” nuclear pulse-jet to Mars and back.
What?
Wait, I get it now. Someone let the pope surf the internet.
…so shape-changers are not approved of by the church? I suppose we will see a lot of lycans and werewolves converting to buddhism.
.
But if Jesus turns into a cracker millions of times and back, does not that make Jesus the biggest shape-changer of all ????
As long as you don’t propel that gay-bomb pulse jet down the throats of good traditional Christians, I guess that’s okay.
I get it! He thinks trans people are on the way to turn into the alien from “Who Goes There?” !!!
Yes, and let’s think of all those horrible medicines we have created that “manipulate” and “do not recognize the order of creation”. Why, they completely destroy the perfect order of disease and death that God created. You silly, vile and heretical humans! The nerve.
Raging Bee,
The christian Pentagon technicians of the early sixties considered using a nuclear ramjet to ferry bombs to the USSR. And the fallout from the unshielded engines was considered a bonus. The plane would circle around Russia after dropping the nukes to inject even more radionucleids into the air. The arrival of ICBMs led to the closedown of the project.
— — — — — — —
I thought the genetic “default” body setting was female, and the Y chromosome interrupts this genetic transcription.
The natural order is for people to get eaten by leopards. We can compensate for the existence of trans people by throwing christians into Colosseum.
Those christians who do textual criticism do not actually use manuscripts when wok-cooking. It was supposed to be “work”, but the “r” took off early for the weekend.
Oh crap, I got my ears pierced.
Mormons are okay with one piercing in the ear for women. Two is an abomination and god doesn’t like it. God is very particular.
Old age is slowly disfiguring the Pope. Dying will disfigure him further. He should do something about that.
Well, laddies and gentlewomen, this was the most liberal “candidate” who was electable for being pope.
That says a lot about the institution, doesn’t it.
<sing>But he cannot give them smallpox anymore.</sing>
It’s more complicated than that, actually. That’s part of why there’s such a large spectrum of outcomes.
Speaking of the order of creation, Frankie, can you now clarify whether “man” was put together before or after “the beast”?
I can hear the chorus of Franny Fans (who sadly include some self-professed atheists) now: “But…but…he had his picture taken with poor people. I mean, ACTUAL POOR PEOPLE!”
“Old age is slowly disfiguring the Pope. Dying will disfigure him further. He should do something about that.”
Flash-freezing! Once we learn to reset DNA and organelles to factory settings (young), we can thaw him out and give him real immortality, without that messy part where the dead rise from their graves.
The Pope had his minions set up shower stalls for the poor near/in? the Vatican grounds. That move reflected the fact that either the Pope or his minions had actually talked to poor people and found out that they really wanted a place where they could get cleaned up.
Now if he would just listen to trans people, and to PZ.
#7: I thought this one was awesome.
equating trans issues to nuclear destruction capabilities sounds to me a lot like the Conservopox attitude that allowing people to do something; means Everybody_Has_To_Do_it. Eg. Gay marriage: “if we allow gay people to marry, then every man must marry a man,” ( “gay marriage means normal marriage is outlawed”. pffft) etc.
I got my body modified a couple of years ago, with the addition of a lot of metal. Now I see that I should have just remained a cripple for the rest of my life instead of getting the broken back and leg fixed.
Hey Frankie, you wanna know what’s unnatural? Celibacy.
Sastra @ 7:
Wow. That was amazing. Damn hairless apes, destroying creation in all manner of ways.
Trebuchet @ 24:
In Frankie’s case, you may well be right, but there’s no need to class a whole bunch of good folks in with him, for whom celibacy is perfectly natural.
You don’t understand. The Catholic Church is cool and hip and superprogressive and it is totally down with social issues and young people’s problems. And most of all, they are just care about people….it is the most important thing to them, that people are happy and live full, meaningful lives. Everything else is secondary, you guys….
*retches*
Fuck this piece of shit fascist. He wouldn’t be progressive even in surrounded by inquisitioners. He is just a better liar than others have been…..but inside he is just as putrid and hateful as all the others.
Funny. I did not even need to have “The Bestest Pope Evah!!!” condemn the likes of me to intensely hate him.
the simple fact that RCC owned hospitals won’t do abortions was enough for me.
But who am I to judge?
Nope, the smiling mask is still on. Sadly, that’s enough to fool those who want to be fooled.
Trans person here. I give zero fucks about what the head of one of the world’s biggest organised religions thinks about my gender identity. Unfortunately many do, and it’s sad for all of those trans people impacted by the smiling, nice pope who says that they are a blight on creation.
Beatrice @ 29:
Yes, it is, and that’s damn scary. Every time I read something Francis has said or written, I get the very strong sense that he wouldn’t be at all displeased to bring the Inquisition back into power, and he’d be smiling all the way.
So what are his thoughts on cosmetic surgery? Piercings? Tattoos? Male circumcision? There are many different forms of body modification, after all. What about medically necessary body modifications, such as organ transplants or removing gangrenous limbs? If having “top surgery” to transition from woman to man is wrong, what about a radial mastectomy to save a person’s life? Or getting surgery to alter the size or shape of the breast?
Maybe his complaint is with hormone therapy, which would explain the Church’s fierce objections to The Pill. But what is the official stance on women taking estrogen to ease menopause? If transmen should not be allowed to take testosterone, what about cismen who use it to enhance “male performance” or just maintain a more vigorous old age?
While my mother wasn’t RCC, her sisters were, and they strongly influenced her.
According to them, anyone who altered their body in any way was committing a sin.
Thus, they criticized a woman who had surgery for breast reduction or enlargement.
Plastic surgery to change the facial appearance was a big no-no unless it was to repair an injury or a deformity.
My cousins and I weren’t even allowed to get pierced ears because it was a sin to alter our bodies.
I got my ears pierced soon after I was married, and I think that all of my female cousins did the same.
Quite obviously, this is where it all comes from:
I am a sex machine ready to reload
Like an atom bomb about to
Oh oh oh oh oh explode
– Queen, Don’t stop me now
A few comments on the Pope on the occasion of his new writings hating on trans* folk.
1. Rictus != smile.
2, in re Raging Bee, #1:
No, of course not. But you have to understand it’s not a birth defect if the big G intended it. Thus thalidomide causes birth defects, because the intelligence of humans intervened to cause the problem. Tay-Sachs, however, is a gift from God to his chosen people. Don’t fuck with it.
3. Pope Rictus said:
You know what else does not recognize the order of creation? French grammar. What the fuck is with that? Those long, pulsating trains driving into a cavernous station? Sure, “la gare,” okay. I get it. But then “La plume est plus forte que l’epee”, and holy fuck that gets weird with the order of creation doesn’t it?
Don’t even get me started on metamaterials. Those satanic physical chemists!
4. I’m just glad that he didn’t go the too-easy route of, “Sure, knit your custom knickers as you will, but don’t trim a custom quim or erect an ….well, you know what I mean.”
I’m tired of “transsexual people are demented self-mutilators” and “transgender folk are cowardly postmodernists lacking the necessary sexual organs for SRS”. It’s nice to see a true Pontifex Maximus, uniting two sides that are far too often divided…
Oops,
#5:
Methinks our dear Pope Rictus is a tad bit less than familiar with actual procedures – and anatomy – involved in SRS.
To be fair, Crip Dyke, most cis people have no idea what is involved with SRS.
The attempted insults about SRS by transphobes is proof of that.
Well, we all know there’s a godly order and we all know where men and women are in that order. There’s only so much space on the topmost step of the ladder and those manyl man feet are big.
Pope Francie is very tolerant:
If you’re straight, cis, catholic, married and have 3 children you are totally allowed to beat them and the pope won’t say a bad word about you as long as you don’t hit them in the face.
Also, pay taxes. Unless you’re the RCC in which case it’s ok to have some offshore mailbox companies to avoid paying taxes on your extensive property.
Ol’ popey head wouldn’t be too popular down here in Nu Zild then. Maybe he ought to be a bit more culturally aware. Hasn’t he ever heard of ta moko?
@Janine the Jackbooted Emotion Queen, #37:
and yet, and yet, and yet…
Most of them seem to know “naughty bits” aren’t dangling off our noses.
Okay, okay, MOST of the time…
The only source seems to be the GSN article: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/pope-francis-compares-trans-people-nuclear-weapons190215
The only other independent confirmation of the Pope’s position is a bigot friend of his https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/austrian-bishop-pope-francis-told-me-gender-ideology-is-demonic
I have little problems believing the Pope is a smiling hateful bigot, but with a single source I fear I’m not getting the full picture.
And with this I have all I needed…
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/kids-in-poor-countries-suffer-when-west-pushes-sex-agenda-pope-says-71803/
Pope’s complaining that aid comes with gender theory strings attached.
Oh the irony.
New Pope! Now with 10% less evil!*
* still 90% evil. Percentage of reduced evil may vary. Not all reduced evil in the Pope himself guaranteed to apply to the rest of the Church.
Incidentally, I would guess most of the Catholic (and Protestant) idiocy on trans issues – and for that matter, gender issues in general – is based on the sentiment expressed in Genesis 1:27 and similar: “So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” The idea that humans might not all fall neatly into the male/female dichotomy – that some people may have brains that work better as female with a body containing male features or vice versa, that the external genitalia might not all go the same way (intersex), and so on – these ideas are contradicted by the ever-so-special Book, and for the deeply religious, the Book always trumps mere reality. Gender essentialism is baked in.
Of course, around here this is all belaboring the obvious, I suppose.
@#2 Saad, You might want to look up the full context of Pope Francis’ “who am I to judge?” statement. http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2013/july/documents/papa-francesco_20130728_gmg-conferenza-stampa.html Francis was actually asked an uncomfortable question about a monsignor who was rumored to be in a gay relationship and what he would do about the so-called “gay lobby” within the Vatican, and within his long answer Francis said “If someone is gay and is searching for the Lord and has good will, then who am I to judge him?” In other words, he won’t judge a gay person as long as they do what the Catholic church tells them. All he was doing was talking in weasel words to look good to the press without explicitly contradicting Catholic teaching. Before he became pope, Francis did a lot of judging towards gay people if they did things the Catholic church didn’t approve of like getting married or adopting children. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/14/pope_francis_on_gay_rights_his_5_worst_quotes/ So really his recent statements opposing marriage equality and transgender people shouldn’t shock anyone.
I’m guessing this means Francis won’t be reading Questionable Content.
Mithrandir @ 44:
That has bothered me since I was very young. I assumed that this meant god was one of those people (as seen in bad movies featuring freak shows) that was split down the middle, one half female, one half male. The nuns were not impressed when I brought this up in school one day.
… Because a city like the Vatican is %100 natural.
Meet the new pope
Same as the old pope…
F.O., my Italian’s a little bit rusty but I’ll try to find you some actual quotes from the book, which I found here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Francesco-questa-economia-Italian-Edition-ebook/dp/B00S1YWBFE
Andrea Tornelli, Giacomo Galeazzi, “Papa Francesco: Questa economia uccide” (Piemme, 2015)
Unfortunately from a brief glance I can’t find the quotes in the limited sample that is available as a preview, and I don’t particularly want to pay for the privilege of finding the exact language Cranky Franky used.
birgerjohansson,
You might want to re-read PZ’s post from the day before yesterday, but here’s the pull quote:
A PDF of the same material found on Amazon’s Kindle edition (front matter, prologue, chapter 1) is available as a preview on the publisher’s website; it’s apparently been out since January but I haven’t seen a discussion in the Italian press focussing on the quotes against trans people.
Further bibliographical data – ISBN 978-88-566-4495-1 / I Edizione 2015 / © 2015 – EDIZIONI PIEMME Spa, Milano / http://www.edizpiemme.it
Well, that wasn’t too hard. It seems the quotes check out and haven’t been grossly mistranslated or misconstrued (assuming also Tornelli and Galeazzi didn’t invent them). Blogpost, referencing a gay news media website in Italy.
It is impossible to write an anti-gay-marriage law that will not tell some apparent males that they’re only allowed to marry other apparent males:
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/marriage.html
That’s the best way to put it I have yet seen.
Not of interest to Catholicism; the latest three popes, at the very minimum, haven’t taken the creation stories literally. …Also, in the quote in comment 52, it’s “the order of the created” – the universe; not the act of creation, but the result of that act.
Not being Jewish, Muslim or American, he’s probably against circumcision – but not too much, because he’d immediately remind you Jesus was circumcised. He might go full Jesuit on you, and you’d come out with a massive headache. :-)
Bookmarked and highly recommended, even though a few of the embryological details are off.
TBH I appreciate the fact that the Pope is attacking wealth inequality (from the top of one of the most opulent organizations in the world…)
Whether it’s just a PR stunt or not, it is giving visibility to what I think is one of the greatest concerns of our times.
Still, WTF, he just compared trans people to a genocidal tyrant!?
@Xanthë Thanks!
Again: 10 % less evil.
Like most of the hierarchy, dude needs to get laid bad, and I’ll take one for the team if I have to.
I’m still trying to find a good source without buying the book.
@Yanthe, if you click on the Italian link at the bottom of the blog post, it circles back to the GayStarNews source. There’s a good chance it’s just translated into Italian from English.
INTERNET Y U NOT SOURCE WELL
Maybe it will pop up in the interwebs or even in a library.
Quoting Shigekuni Honda (22 February 2015 at 4:58 pm),
Annoying isn’t it! It circles back to GSN mentioning that it broke the story, so yeah, looks like someone needs to pay up before you can check the quote. :3