1. chigau (違う) says

    This has nothing to do with anything here but
    I really wish that people who use spreadsheets would fucking well learn how to use them.
    Stop sending me your mangled, buggered, versions of the tidy one I sent to you.
    Just follow my instructions.

  2. ednaz says

    rq, Hooray for House!!

    Sending hugs and courage and strength and fortitude. ( Not sure what that means, I’ll have to look it up. I think it has something to do with bran cereal.) Anyway! Sending everything you might need for the days ahead.

    Also, I believe you have the right to be selfish. (When being selfish means wanting perfectly reasonable things.)

  3. ednaz says

    chigau (違う)

    Here, have a bottle of rum. When it’s empty, you can use it on the noggins of the people who send you buggered spreadsheets. : )

  4. chigau (違う) says

    Thanks. A fine idea!
    Now to sleep (and not dream of buggered spreadsheets)
    (srsly, a baboon could manage)

  5. Camcaran says

    Eurasian magpie
    I too have a needle phobia (among many others), but I donate blood. I cried my eyes out the first time I went there, but it got easier every time. If you decide to go, tell them of your phobia.

  6. John Morales says

    Maybe a bit of cheer for some here: Portraits capture powerful women

    A new exhibition profiling some of Australia’s most influential and high-achieving women is on show in Canberra.

    First Ladies at the National Portrait Gallery maps the great achievements and milestones of Australian women over the past 100 years.

    It features the portraits and stories of 21 women, many of whom achieved notable firsts and were considered ahead of their time.

  7. says

    Good morning
    Bah, I feel like the little one passed her cold on to me :(

    Actually, when I decided to donate plasma it was partly motivated by my own desire to overcome my needlephobia I acquired as a child when I needed regular blood-tests to ensure that I wasn’t actually suffering from tuberculosis.

  8. Camcaran says

    I started donating, simply because I thought it was something that people should do. But it has been more than helpful with the phobia.

  9. Camcaran says

    I have several phobias, and I usually just get mad when people tell me I just need to get used to x. But in case of needles it has actually worked. I’m still nervous and a bit afraid before a blood test or something, but at least I’m not crying in the waiting room.

  10. says

    I’m not generally prone to phobias (anxiety is a different issue), so the needle thing was about me getting in control again. As a child, I didn’t understand. I couldn’t understand why they treated me as sick even though I felt perfectly healthy.* So, what happened in my eyes was that people were hurting me for no reason at all against my will. I regularly went totally out of control in the clinic. I would try to run, I would scream, kick and bite with the result that adults would catch me and restrain me what added to my sense of being violated. It was not about the pain. This was capilar blood drawing, hardly hurts and I hurt myself much more every day. It was about being violated, having my autonomy disrespected, people doing things to me and needles became synonymous for that. I would prefer lots of pain at the dentist’s instead of an injection. Donating plasma meant that I chose to have a needle put into me.

    *When tested for the school entry, my tb-test was positive and there was something strange on my lung x-ray. My parents were given the choice to either have me treated for TB which would have meant heavy medication with big side-effects or those regular tests on which basis further treatment or lack thereoff would be decided.

  11. rq says

    Good night, ednaz!


    Warning for the squeamish, I may be elaborating more than I mean to initially.
    My Fear of the Blood Test gets worse every time I have to go, especially after the time the nurse fucked it right up and gave me a giant bruise in the crook of my elbow. So I grit my teeth, breathe deeply and sit through it. My mum likes watching the blood collect, but I can’t do that. I don’t mind needles (vaccines – just a poke!), but the extraction of bodily fluids by a medical professional… *shudder*


    Seeing as how you’re a landowner (otherwise I have to ask, whose lovely property is the recipient of your love-nest-to-be?), I can accept hugs from you and the tugging of the forelock will not be necessary.
    As for relationship stress, you have me beat. By comparison, my journey of moving to different country – dating – pregnancy – break-up – birth and revelation – anger – together-again (never mind actual marriage!) took us over a year. You say three months? Impressive.
    But it’s a constant work in progress, as I’m sure you know.
    ([Warning] HUGE Personal Information Dump [/Warning])
    We discuss things and talk about them, and then strangely enough there’s little to no action on them. And I don’t know if I’m doing something completely wrong, or if there’s more that I can do, but I’m so tired of repeating the same words, hearing the same pretty ideas about change, and seeing no follow-through. I’m just tired. I don’t feel happy anymore, not in that deep-down everything-is-really-ok sense. I don’t feel ok anymore, and frankly I’m losing patience. And I hate that. But I told him, and once again I tried to explain to him how utterly shitty I feel when he tells me I should just suck it up because I have it good, because it’s bad for me to want a trip without the kids while it’s perfectly ok for him to do it (to which I asked, If you really appreciated us (by his logic), then why would you even consider going, even if it is a paid trip???).
    Well, now he has 6 days in the clear air of the Swiss Alps and no wife and children to derail his train of thought. And I have 6 days to think about what I can do, because I honestly don’t know at this point. I don’t want to expect something different and be disappointed again. I’m willing to have a discussion and to give it some time (because, you know, we’ll be moving, and even I can accept that it might be a tad difficult to get out on our own somewhere), but at least a show of effort or an offer to go out a couple of weeks down the line would be all the difference.
    And if nothing changes, I just don’t know. What scares me the most? We’re moving from the big city to a relatively small town with less access to all kinds of places (including my work, for what it’s worth). We’ve agreed we need a second car, but I worry about how long it will take for us to get a second car. And…
    Anyway. It’s not like he’s intentional about all these things, he’s just ignorant and unwilling to accept that something might be wrong (because he’s fine!). My opinions and explanations are met with a dubious “Well, if you say so…”, or “You’re probably right” (my feelings? I’m probably right?), and a few comments about how he doesn’t see the problem anywhere. Dammit, I’m showing you the problem! *sigh* He’s leaking privilege all over the place, not even realizing it, and refusing to do anything about it when it’s pointed out. Being too harsh or direct puts him on the defensive (“But what about me? Now I feel guilty! Waah!”). I would love for him to read a few things here and there, but he doesn’t (read, that is). I would love for him to have someone to talk to about this kind of thing, but none of his friends are even close to the level of less-sexism and privilege-acknowledgement that he has (seeing as he is fairly low on the scale, that should say a lot…).
    Sometimes I just don’t know what else to do, besides start planning my own (single) outings and trips (within family budgetary constraints, of course). I don’t know what else will make him see. I’ll probably be labelled selfish no matter what I do, but honestly, I just want him to realize that I am not happy and there are things that we can do about it.

    Well, that was all about me, but it had to come out somewhere and sometime.
    Yay house?

    Ech. Leaving that there just because. I swear, soon I’ll stop complaining about myself and talking about my problems. I feel like an ass for putting them out there, and I’m sorry, but really it’s the only venue I have right now, where I can bounce some ideas. And maybe I am a little bit in the wrong, but I’m sure that will be pointed out to me, as well. I know I’m not perfect. I’m a bad housewife, actually, because I don’t particularly like being one. I’ve never been a big fan of children as a concept (I assure you, I like mine and I love them a lot), and to be honest, I never had any planned for myself, except in the general Oh, one day, one day, maybe…. But that’s neither here nor there. What I mean is, maybe I’m just doing it wrong, too. I don’t know.
    I’m going to try to not talk about myself for a while after this, sorry everyone. I probably sound like privileged ass most of the time. Sorry for that. :(

  12. Camcaran says

    Mine is just plain old irrational fear. Might have a reason behind it or not. But I think I understand at least a little what you have felt like. As I understand the donating was helpful for you. I’m glad. =)

  13. says

    Some unsolicited advice: If you basically agree on changing some things or others when you talk but it never happens, maybe it would help to make a concrete plan?
    To say “we want to spend time as a couple” is one thing, to say “We’ll go for dinner/movies/bowling the first Saturday of the month” is another one.
    It worked for us when we always complained that “we would like to spend time as a family” and it never worked because there was always something else. Then we decided that we will spend Saturday afternoons as a family and it worked out.

  14. bluentx says

    Good morning! Tho I’ll have to be going to bed soon. *sigh*
    Congrats on the house!

    … it’s bad for me to want a trip without the kids while it’s perfectly ok for him to do it..

    Fuck that shit! Ooo, I’m having a flashback… Sounds exactly like my first ex. [I hold the family record for divorces-2]Three seperate marriage councilers told him (#1) he had a control problem. He’d ‘be good’ for a few weeks then start all over again. It was then that I first realized I had a problem with depression and anxiety.
    You sound more together than I was though and I didn’t have the internet on which to vent (late 90’s). Don’t let him ‘bully’ you or undermine your confidence like mine did!
    And don’t you dare hold back, thinking that we’re ‘tired of your complaining’. That’s what communes are for, man. Sharing, growing, communicating. Right on? (Sorry, talk about a flashback : )
    Keep talking to him and to us. * a million hugs*

  15. rq says

    Unsolicited advice from those more experienced is always welcome. :) Thanks.
    We tried the concrete plan bit the last time, and still no results – we’d decided on the second Saturday, once a month (unless, of course, emergencies)I threw out a few ideas the first couple of months and got turned down; he suggested we go skiing the week before last (and he knows it’s an activity I don’t particularly like).
    Yes, we lost the schedule because things, but it looks like the next attempt will be an even more concrete plan – as in, writing it in the calendar and putting a reminder on the cell phone and the like. And actually making sure we look for date/activity ideas, and worst comes to worst, just heading out blindly. I’m thinking what might help is if we arrange the baby-sitting well in advance, so that once they arrive, we have no choice but to leave…

    Thanks for that, too. When I start to feel guilty about making him feel guilty, I try to pull back a little bit and see if I should be feeling guilty at all or not (as in, am I being reasonable in making him feel guilty, or not?). I admit, a few times I’ve been over the line, and I struggle to admit that, but I’m getting better. But sometimes, like now, I honestly believe I’m allowed to make him feel a little bit bad about me not feeling good, if it will make him think about why I feel bad (and not how I make him feel bad all the damn time). And yes, that reinforces the confidence that things need to be discussed and changed, instead of moi retreating back into being quiet and sullen and pretending to be happy with a situation that’s making me miserable. Work in progress, I say! Yay for the commune!

  16. bluentx says

    Keep us informed on the progress (of house and home).If you need any help moving I’ve got a truck, but it may be a little tricky getting there ; )
    I think it’s time for bed.
    Good night and good morning all!

  17. rq says

    Good night! ;)
    We’ve got some help in the truck/van department (I mean, we need it – we have to move a piano) but the offer is very much appreciated!

  18. rq says

    Well, my skills at putting a piano back together are rather poor, and since I want to play it again sometime… I think we’ll avoid your family’s solution.

  19. rq says

    For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can’t readily accept the God formula, the big answers don’t remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. (Charles Bukowski);

    I talk to God but the sky is empty. (Sylvia Plath);

    An angel’s arm can’t snatch me from the grave; legions of angels can’t confine me there. (Edward Young);

    “Judge not, that ye be not judge”… is an abdication of moral responsibility: it is a moral blank check one gives to others in exchange for a moral blank check one expects for oneself. There is no escape from the fact that men have to make choices; so long as men have to make choices, there is no escape from moral values; so long as moral values are at stake, no moral neutrality is possible. To abstain from condemning a torturer, is to become an accesory to the torture and murder of his victims. The moral principle to adopt… is: “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.” (Ayn Rand) (Yes, I know, her, but…);

    Martyrs have been sincere. And so have tyrants. Wise men have been sincere. And so have fools.
    (E. Haldeman-Julius)


    These are a few… I have more, somewhere! :)

  20. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    That’s the beauty of the Lounge, rq, it’s never really the wrong thread for an accidental post… ;)

    In general I am anti-quote, as in I strongly dislike reading the quotes other people think are wise, usually think people put way too much stock into a statement if it’s quotable, and despise the quote-of-the-week section of SGU (and interviews in general, I really dislike the interview format, but that’s neither here nor there). That said, I quite liked some of the above quotes, so thanks for mis-posting.

    Regarding your 515- Please don’t ever feel bad about sharing the personal information you’d like to share here. If nothing else, know that I find it valuable and am interested to keep up with what’s going on. I am pretty sure that I’m not the only one by a long shot.

    Though our situations are not identical (I don’t have kids or work, unfortunately. Unfortunately to the work part, not the kids part), I also moved to a new country in order to live with my now-husband and something you said struck a chord. Things are generally good, but the bad things are so cyclical. We have the same arguments over and over again, but the problem is that he never seems to remember. If I bring up something that we had decided ought to be changed, I would feel okay if he said, “That’s true, we did decide that, thanks for bringing this to my attention.” Instead he says, “I don’t remember us talking about this before.” I feel like we have several core issues and the little things that bug me are worse because they are all symptoms of the larger problems. If they were little isolated incidents, I could handle them one by one but instead I feel like everytime I have to start from the beginning and explain how this little thing that happened is just like this other little thing that happened and I’m noticing a pattern.

    Sorry for the above ramble, but in any case, I felt less alone when you described your situation. Thanks for sharing and I hope it’s okay that I shared too. As far as advice goes, I don’t feel I should offer any because I don’t know what I’m doing. Of course, I hope things improve for you, especially after you get settled from the move. And congratulations! Enjoy your new roses when they bloom!

  21. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    I know of a few of us who moved to a new country for the purposes of lurrve. Myself, rq, FossilFishy… are there any others?

  22. rq says

    Thanks for that post. It’s comforting to know that some issues are universally transferrable. Just proves we’re all people, at the core… Do you mind my asking from where and to where did you move? (It’s just curiosity, so if you don’t feel like divulging, please don’t feel like you have to!)
    I definitely understand what you mean about having to start over all the time, though. That feeling gets reduced over time, and if I make enough of a fuss (because things are, for some things, tending quietly to the positive, albeit extremely slowly). I hate having to make a fuss, though, but the less emotional conversations tend to be ignored – which, in a way, emphasizes the importance of emotions in any discourse: it is all too easy to pass off quiet, ‘rational’ conversation as not worthy of enough attention. It is easy to forget, to pass over as ‘just another conversation’, easy to ignore. Making a fuss – with requisite emotions (although preferably avoiding the panic attack, as occurred on Thursday) – serves to show that this stuff is important. Granted, usually in the wrong kind of way (‘Fine, if it will make you calm down!’), but still… Once the direction has shifted, then it can be re-discussed more calmly once actual results can be seen and commented (so it’s not just theory).
    But I hate having to make a fuss, yes I do, because I’m not trying to make a fuss. But all the little things (as you say) keep being ignored or unheard, and that adds up to a hell of a lot of emotions (at least for me).
    Thanks for sharing and yes, feel free to share. :) It helps (both of us, most likely!). :)

  23. rq says

    Actually, I have a hard time providing supporting evidence, but I didn’t come here for luuurrrrve (as you so beautifully put it ;) ); it came with the idea of staying, if that makes any sense. It was potentially there but I stayed because of the job and thus became an actuality. I suppose it’s close enough for your purposes, though. :)
    Oh, and I’m not a huge fan of quotes myself, but one of my all-time favourites is this one by Chekhov: “Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day-to-day living that wears you out.”

  24. says

    Peeks in…
    …I have never been this threadrupt. Work has been so busy, I have not been able to even check The Lounge, let alone respond to anything. The project that I wanted to get done is on the back burner unfortunately. I cannot even find the time to get online. I hope this changes soon, because 12-15 hour days may give me a fat paycheck, but I do not want to get burnt out. Hugs and congrats to all who need them.

  25. rq says

    Don’t get burned out! Yay for fat paychecks! Boo for incomplete projects! More *hugs*! :)

  26. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    Woops, rq, I knew I should have couched that statement as possibly not an accurate representation… sorry, and sorry to you too, FossilFishy if I also misrepresented your situation.

    I’m originally from the US and I moved to Sweden. People always ask me how different the two places are and I keep saying that the differences feel very small to me compared to the differences between living in a city or city suburb and living in a small town that’s best located by describing it as between the two large lakes.



    …it is all too easy to pass off quiet, ‘rational’ conversation as not worthy of enough attention. It is easy to forget, to pass over as ‘just another conversation’, easy to ignore. Making a fuss – with requisite emotions (although preferably avoiding the panic attack, as occurred on Thursday) – serves to show that this stuff is important. Granted, usually in the wrong kind of way (‘Fine, if it will make you calm down!’), but still… Once the direction has shifted, then it can be re-discussed more calmly once actual results can be seen and commented (so it’s not just theory).
    But I hate having to make a fuss, yes I do, because I’m not trying to make a fuss.

    This. I never intend to get so upset that I’m crying or panicking, but it’s very difficult to manage when I feel ignored or not taken seriously. I despise when my husband says, “I don’t want to argue.” I don’t want to argue either, it’s not like I like it, but it’s what happens because of [insert specific problem here], so now we need to resolve it.

  27. rq says


    I never intend to get so upset that I’m crying or panicking, but it’s very difficult to manage when I feel ignored or not taken seriously. I despise when my husband says, “I don’t want to argue.” I don’t want to argue either, it’s not like I like it, but it’s what happens because of [insert specific problem here], so now we need to resolve it.

    YES!!! (Unfortunately I have to run, so that’s all I have time for. But it completely summarized our situations, too.)

  28. Beatrice says

    I’m in a very good mood.
    There is no particular reason for it, but it’s a rare occasion that I feel completely free of worry or upset, and I’m smiling for almost no reason… so I wanted to share.
    *hugs* and *chocolate cake* all around

  29. David Marjanović says

    Yay! Happy Beatrice! :-)

    Somebody actually counted the words Sarah Palin spoke while employed by Faux Noise and calculated how many dollars per word she got.

    Why you totally need a gun. Comes with ALL the trigger warnings! If you don’t need them, pay special attention to the bottom left corner of the picture.

    Open-access paper that must be seen to be believed, but is quite encouraging. :-)

  30. David Marjanović says

    *facepalm* Failed to close the <b> tag after the trigger warnings. The open-access paper has nothing to do with “needing” a gun.

  31. says

    *hugs* I can’t offer much advice, but I hope things go well.

    The moral principle to adopt… is: “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.”

    I prefer “Judge carefully, lest you be held to the same standard.”
    Yay for the good mood, hopefully it persists.

  32. says

    Moment of Mormon Madness: mormon women from the “Young Womens” organization of the LDS church sing a song that is based on Katy Perry’s “Call Me Maybe.” If one of your triggers is badly executed choreography done in the service of oppressing women, avoid this video.

    I sincerely hope that Katy Perry sues their pants off.

    Excerpts from the lyrics:

    Forget that text or that tweet,
    The temple is really neat …
    You missed out so bad
    The temple is so rad
    So ask this question
    Am worthy today?…
    Your leaders just can’t be beat
    We love you like crazy.

    This, my friends, illustrates Molly Mormonism perfectly. And those wild young women probably thought they were being bold by performing the “Gangnam” moves. Ride ’em young mollies, ride ’em.

  33. Minnie The Finn, qui devient bientôt vierge says

    Another serious case of threadrupcy here.

    How are y’all keeping, and have you booked your travel for Stockholm in August yet? =)

  34. Portia, wishing for spring says

    rq and Parrowing
    I can totally sympathize. I think my relationship with S is disintegrating for many reasons, but what you describe is among them. I don’t have much time right now otherwise I would commiserate further. Lots of *hugs*.

    Don’t either of you ever feel sorry for letting it out here when you need to. As you both said above, hearing other people have similar frustrations is really helpful to me.

    Hi! I’ve missed you! Glad you’re getting fat paychecks though :)

    Aren’t those days so nice? Glad you’re having a good mood day. Om nom nom Chocolate cake.

    I turned away some chocolate cake last week, because it was overly sugary tasting. S literally took my pulse.


    I submitted my application to the local prosecutor’s office. I am so nervous. But my favorite federal judge (read: the only one that knows who I am and is a totally kickass person) called this morning and emphatically approved my use of her name as a reference. So I’ve got that going for me, which is nice. Is it customary to write a thankyou note for that sort of favor?


    *hugs* all around.

  35. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Portia – I would, but I send thank you notes to people on a regular basis. I don’t see how it could hurt and it is polite.

  36. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says


    […]but I’m so tired of repeating the same words, hearing the same pretty ideas about change, and seeing no follow-through.

    And my sense of uneasiness grows.

    But I told him, and once again I tried to explain to him how utterly shitty I feel when he tells me I should just suck it up because I have it good[…]

    Does he ever feel that he has it rough?
    Somewhere in this world, there must exist the Sorriest Man Alive—the poor bastard that literally (in the literal sense of the word) has it worse than anyone on Earth. (Okay, okay; realistically it’s more likely to be a category of Equally Sorriest Men, but that ruins the shape of the story and undercuts the Moral, so handwave it, okay?)(And I use “Man” deliberately, in this instance. I don’t think that substituting “Human” gains us anything in this instance, if, as appears to possibly be the case, he has problems empathising with women in general.) (Anyways. Onward.)
    And he is almost certainly not that Man.
    Following what he seems to be using as “logic”, until and unless he is that Man, when he feels abused by fate, he must “just suck it up”…because, relatively speaking he “has it good”.
    Also, *hugs* and sympathy.

  37. Portia, wishing for spring says

    Maryam Namazie has one square of a godbothere bingo card over at her post about Hijab Day:

    Dear sister, my heart goes out to you. You are so far gone from the truth that there is no hope for you. You left our beautiful religion and that is not enough, you also need to denounce Islam in any way you are able to. I feel so sorry for you and will remember you in my prayers because God is all forgiving and even you are worthy of forgiveness. Live and let live peacefully! Salaams

    Snicker. Sounds the same from any Abrahamic tradition doesn’t it?

  38. Portia, wishing for spring says

    Oh, and Maryam reposts the nude photo of herself from the calendar, so be warned if someone is looking over your shoulder.

  39. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Didn’t finish my point. Or grind it into the dirt. Whichever.
    The point is that, by this “logic”, he must never aspire to have anything better, or anything more, or anything easier…because he’s already got it good.
    (Incidentally, this is more-or-less what I think when, interminably, we are told that we (meaning, American women) shouldn’t complain of harrassment because Muslim women have it worse, or that it’s a travesty to get upset about female genital mutilation because a far larger number of males are routinely circumcised, or…you get the idea. By implication, we must, as a species, arrive at a consensus as to which injustice is the Worst In The World, and concentrate on no other, “lesser” injustices until that one is solved…and then the Next Worst, and so on. Yeah. Right. That’ll get the job/s done. </sarcasm>)

  40. Minnie The Finn, qui devient bientôt vierge says

    Cicely: I hear you. That is something I regularly get here at home. While BoyToy is a lovely person in many ways, logic is not one of his strong points. I get regularly Godwinned in many conversations, and the consensus here (according to him) is that any feminist issues are a waste of breath since in Finland, things are generally okay.

  41. says

    A Moment of Mormon Morning Madness. Only in Utah?

    A software company with offices in Utah is afraid that a possible sexual innuendo in its street address may make business go, well, soft.

    The address? Morning Glory Road.

    Xactware Solutions Inc., concerned that sharing a road with the uncommon slang term for an erection might distract customers or simply make them confuse software with hardware, asked the city of Lehi to change the name to Morning Vista Road. They said it did not fit their “international corporate image.”

    The city, according to the Salt Lake Tribune, complied — though they didn’t understand the problem. ”We never knew about the ulterior definitions until that came to light a little while ago,” local economic development director Jonathan Gardner told the paper.

    Another local resident, Emily Scanlon, told the Tribune she thought the company was being ridiculous.

    “I’ve lived here for four years and not once have I ever thought of morning glory as that,” she said.

    The Tribune noted today that other Utah towns with streets named Morning Glory have no plans to rename them.

    Gotta hand it to the mormons. They see sex everywhere … and then they proceed to repress it.

  42. Minnie The Finn, qui devient bientôt vierge says

    Lynna: That’s inspiring. From now on, whenever I have secksytimes with BT, I’m going to call it a Mormon Moment. And post online about it. Sooner or later, LDS will notice it. I will be waiting for their response excitedly.

  43. The Mellow Monkey says

    Xactware Solutions Inc., concerned that sharing a road with the uncommon slang term for an erection might distract customers or simply make them confuse software with hardware, asked the city of Lehi to change the name to Morning Vista Road. They said it did not fit their “international corporate image.”

    Oh shit. Just wait until somebody tells them about the flower.

  44. chigau (違う) says

    A pleasing view, esp. one seen through a long, narrow opening: “a vista of church spires”.
    long, narrow opening
    church spires

  45. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Beatrice: Hurrah for the good mood, and long may it wave!

    Tony: Fat paychecks are good, but burn-out is not. Take care of yourself. Remember, some of us are worriers.

    Portia: Sorry to hear that your relationship is disintegrating.
    Hurray for application!

    Minnie: *pouncehug*

  46. Portia, wishing for spring says

    Thanks, cicely. I’m sad but it is what it is. I’m just trying to navigate the predictable emotional reactions. We haven’t ended it officially. He is in a really rough place, though, so that conversation is not one I want to initiate. We’re just sort of drifting apart. It’s better than fighting all the time, but I do miss him. A lot.
    Hi, Ogvorbis!

  47. Minnie The Finn, qui devient bientôt vierge says

    Cicely, Chigau: pouncehug back!

    Ogvorbis: looooong time no see. A special hug for you. Hope you are well, and if not, then more hugs. With chocolate, bacon and loads of bling.

  48. Owen says

    I have been guilty of being that guy too. I’d like to think I’m getting better, but it’s a long slog. Keep the pressure on him, rq, and maybe he’ll come round. But I should expand on that – if nothing happens, its not your fault for not keeping enough pressure on.
    One thing that worked well for my relationship was to have “date night” once a week. We get a babysitter, and go out for dinner for a couple of hours. It doesn’t stop us flopping around the house like a couple of exhausted walruses the rest of the week, but at least it’s a bit of a break.

  49. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    Thanks, Portia. Ugh, that stage really sucks- the one where you know the end is likely near but you’re not sure whether you should push for it or hope that things change. *hugs* back at you. Congratulations on getting the application in on time and for the incredibly awesome recommendation!


    Hiya, Ogvorbis!

  50. Portia, wishing for spring says

    Thanks Parrowing. I really appreciate the hugs.

    I just spoke to S and invited him to a family party tomorrow night. Now I wish I hadn’t let it slip to Dad and Uncle that we were sort of falling apart. But it will be great to have S there to help buffer me from Dad’s awful horrible no-good person of a gf. S says he might actually come.

    The last couple of weeks we haven’t seen much of each other. He broke a streak of us not seeing each other by coming to rescue me from car trouble, and then broke a not-talking streak by alerting me about the application deadline. So it’s sort of like we are there for each other when we really need each other, which is comforting.

  51. opposablethumbs says

    Extra big hugs for rq, Parrowing, Portia – and I’m sure there was somebody else too ::shakes brain:: Is it OK if I just put some extra ones over here, for anyone who needs one? Because frankly, I reckon most of us could always do with a few extra hugs.

    Yay for the application and rec, Portia

    And hello Ogvorbis, good to see you again.

    Hugs also to Tony (hopefully yay paycheck and yay good working environment, and NOOO to burnout – you take a break asap, you hear?)

  52. Portia, wishing for spring says

    …he just told me he’s hanging out with my cousin’s husband tonight. It’s not a new friendship, but it’s interesting/weird to me that it’s still going on. Oh crap…I feel some false hope surging up. (Family has no idea we have problems).

  53. Portia, wishing for spring says

    thanks opposablethumbs :) hugs gratefully accepted. and thanks for the yays! :)

  54. says

    Hi everybody
    So, mum’s feeling better, her blood tests are getting better plus she seems to have take a push now that there’s some hope.

    Don’t feel bad. Some time or other most of us have used the Horde as our emotional back-up.


    So, in memory of my great-aunt, have I ever introduced you to Boomer?
    She gave it to me when I was 4 or 5 and he’s been my best friend ever since.

  55. Pteryxx says

    *threadrupt random hugs*

    Job offer in Prague as a writer for antivirus group Avast:

    January 29th, 2013
    Job offer: AVAST seeks experienced IT journalist or blogger
    Leave a comment Go to comments

    AVAST typically has a lot of great news to report and we’re looking for a full-time native speaker of English — with a background in IT journalism (this is important!) — to join our team in Prague.

  56. Ogvorbis says

    Back from Maine.

    Enjoyed good food and weird company. My parents are incapable of discussing anything without playing uproar. They have learned to cap it at a low level, but DAMN!!

    They keep the rubber bands in the refrigerator to keep them from drying out.

    During the time I was there, temperatures ranged from -15F to 59F. And it rained. Hard.

    Sister has a Maine Coon kitten, smokey black in colour. Cute.

    And on Monday, Wife and I helped Mom go through the process of buying a new used car to replace their 12-year-old Mercury sedan. Ended up with a 3-year-old Honda with 23k miles. Very tiring.

    Hugs to rq and Portia.

  57. Nutmeg says

    Hi, Ogvorbis! Welcome back!

    *hugs* to rq, Portia, and Giliell and anyone else who’s needing them


    Thanks again to everyone here who reassured me when I freaked out about my suspicious mole last week. I freaked out again this week about some more changes, and got in to see my dermatologist today. It’s NOT melanoma. It’s a bunch of irritation plus scar tissue plus ingrown hairs plus med side effects. I’ll have it and another slightly irritated mole removed in a few months, as a precaution.

    I was brought up with the idea that melanoma not caught early = big big trouble, so I haven’t slept properly in a week or eaten properly in 3 days. I am quite relieved to have the official declaration be “nasty-looking but not actually that scary”.

  58. Ogvorbis says


    That is good news.

    Of course, putting up with a perturbed mole could be annoying. Maybe you could let it go at a golf course and, after it works out its irritation, pick it up again? I mean, golfers love moles, right?

  59. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Hurrah for irradiated moles, instead of melanomas!
    What superpowers has it got?

  60. Nutmeg says

    Thanks, cicely and Ogvorbis.

    Jules is active on PET and seems to be fine. I can pass along a message to her or ask her to check in here, if you’d like.

  61. rq says

    Beatrice, thanks for the chocolate cake! May the good feelings continue!

    Portia, *hugs* for the relationship issues, for the small hope that may be false, and happy *hugs* for getting a good reference!

    Minnie the Finn, yup, seksizm is apparently dead in Latvia too, because, you know, we had a woman president. And all those girls/women doing the administrative portion of scientific projects choose to do that part of the work. Who knew??

    cicely, thank you so much for that story, you made me laugh. On a slight tangent, and for reasons not-quite-remembered, my sister and I began calling (then-proto)Husband the SAP. Now I can change that to SMA. Has a nice ring to it. :)
    And yes, I see your point. I’m thinking to get my point(s) across I’m going to have to start using his logic, which… well, for the supposedly rational and naturally-born logical half of the human species, doesn’t sit well with me. I wonder, though, how it will work on him.

    Hi, Ogvorbis! Glad you had a good trip!

    Owen, the issue is not so much agreeing on having a date night, but actually having one. Where disproportionate amounts of effort is being spent in just thinking about it. (I love the image of wallowing walri (tee hee, Bad Latin!), I may use that in future – may I?) Thanks for the words of encouragement.

    Giliell, great news on the mum front! *hugs* And Boomer is way cute. Very huggable.

    opposablethumbs, thanks for the hugs!

    To everyone: Thank you for all the emotional support. I know I can be wrong sometimes, and it doesn’t fix problems, but I feel a heck of a lot less panicky and anxious, knowing that there’s a crowd out there having my back, random advice, and similar situations/feelings. Seconding Parrowing and everyone else with the thought that, sometimes, it’s nice to be in an ‘echo chamber’. ;) Feeling less alone does a lot to compensate for the regular feelings of alone.
    Now to put the three munchkins to bed! I loves me a good challenge, and the thought that there’s cold beer waiting on the other side. Back in a mo.

  62. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Nutmeg: Would be so kind as to pass along this package of *hugs&chocolate&bacon&booze* to her?

  63. Beatrice says

    If I want to get the Eddie Izzard tickets for a reasonable price (or any price, the best places are gone already, I think the whole thing might get sold out in a couple of days. The performance in Belgrade is already sold out.), I should probably buy them next week. So, to go or not to go? I would have to go by myself. :/

  64. rq says

    Nutmeg, that’s good news!


    Tomorrow, The Princess Bride: everything still on? I’ll be switching on ca. 11PM my time (GMT+2), and probably just sitting here and commenting, so anyone who’s available, I would welcome the company! (I pick that time because chances are I’ll have all three wee ones in bed by that time, and asleep.)

  65. Ogvorbis says

    By the by, tomorrow, in the United States, is Ground Hog Day. So be sure to get some nice pork sausage for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

  66. rq says

    Not to sound stalkerish, but maybe we can both go alone? I want to go, and I’m seriously considering doing it alone. So, we could do it alone together…? (I know you don’t like doing things alone, but maybe if it’s together in spirit (haaaahahahahaha…)?)
    Because I have to get tickets soon, too – he’s in a small venue here, and I don’t know how keen Latvians are on him (to judge by general reaction, not particularly, but you never know… foreigners, don’tcha know *snicker*).

  67. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Mmm mmm mmm! I do love me some ground hog! Add some spices and fry that right up!

  68. Beatrice says

    You know, I think I’ll go. And I’ll even buy a nice seat. My eyesight isn’t the best, even with the glasses, and it would be nice if I could actually see the guy.

    He’s apparently quite popular here, considering that he’s performing in three different towns.

    You should definitely go too. We’ll be each other’s spirit company.

  69. Portia, wishing for spring says

    I heartily endorse both of you going to see Izzard by your respective selves, not that it counts for much :) I’ll just be jealous that I couldn’t go, and that the three of us couldn’t go together : )

    I’ll also enjoy reading the PB comments tomorrow, though I’ll be unable to participate in the actual watching. I have seen it enough times that I’m sure I can follow along, ha

  70. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Ogvorbis, that is an excellent suggestion!

    Audley, I guess I could do a song and dance routine for you…if I could sing. Or dance.

  71. says

    DarkBaby is upstairs in the nursery and I’m downstairs in the living room, so I’d have to be laughing pretty loudly. :D

    OMG, that was all three of my cats at about 3 pm! Also, my tortie Harley has figured out that I’m home all day now, so the begging never stops.

  72. Ogvorbis says



    Of course, you are a mother. You are not allowed free time. You must be making the castle acceptable to your master, you must be ironing socks, or waxing the toaster. Get to it. And make me a sammich!

    That work?

  73. Beatrice says

    Good thing about going alone: there is one seat left in the second row and it will be mine. ha

  74. Ogvorbis says


    I have a maple bacon chocolate bar.

    And we are having a strip steak (one steak for the three of us) and roasted Brussels Sprouts for dinner.

  75. says

    Welcome back Oggie and…someone else just came back from a while away; I can’t seem to find them and I’m terrible with names. *hugs* to you both/all though. Additional *hugs* for those suffering from relationship issues; those are always hard.
    Good to see you again, if briefly, yay for fat paychecks, but watch for burnout.
    It’s a slow day at work today since there were no students, so I’ll probably be around a little more than usual.

  76. Portia, wishing for spring says

    Good thing about going alone: there is one seat left in the second row and it will be mine. ha


    mmmm Chocolate and wine

    Your life will most certainly be more giggle-riddled going forward.

  77. Ogvorbis says

    . . . I’m terrible with names.

    I know how you feel, Dalivicuna. I’m lousy remembering names, too.

    I think that Minnie the Finn has been away for a while and showed up a little while ago?

  78. dontpanic says

    For those talking about a “needle phobia”, that’s not it for me. Its really not a phobia in the usual sense of being scared. Its a post-event reaction, not so much of an anticipation … there have been times I’ve been nervous/anxious beforehand, but others when I’ve been quite calm.

    Not to sound unsupportive or dismissive but I want to throw another viewpoint into the going away on a business trip to somewhere “nice” mix. I think my wife has an unrealistic expectation about how “fun” that foreign trip is. I find them quite stressful. Yeah, perhaps I’m officially away from home for 6 days. Day 1: travel, yes, only travel; by the time I reach the destination I’m exhausted (connections made, TSA navigated, hotel to find, etc.) ; there’s no option of “oops, missed a connection, oh well I’ll skip activity X I was planning for the first day” or “I’ll just change my schedule around”. I get where I’m going and I’m already dead tired. Then there are 3.5 days of meetings from 8 or 9 am to 5 or 6 pm. I’m expected to be aware of what’s going on, comment coherently, bring up objections, suggest solutions, vigorously argue w/ colleagues. Much more intense than a normal workday. Half the evenings we might go out for dinner as a group at which time work issues continue to be discussed. Those when we’re on our own, I’m stressed/anxious by the foreignness of the location (especially in non-English speaking countries, as I’m crap with languages so I’ve never mastered any others at even a basic level). Then later in the evening I’m really exhausted, but at least one night (likely two) I’ve got a talk to prepare for the next day. Perhaps, on the last day we’ll finish off mid-day and I’ll have a bit of free time. Sometimes, I’ll take another full day at location. And then travel back is a full day of travel stress.

    So that “6 days” in exotic location really amounts to 0.5 to 1.5 free time after an wearying schedule. And I don’t take too much in extra days because [a] those sending me put a limit on how much vacation one can tack onto such a trip (1/2 the working days) to avoid abuse; [b] its expensive and I’m trying not to spend extra $ on “me” [c] I need to get back to take on some of the childcare duties that were in conflict with her teaching schedule (i.e. when spawn was younger and she taught 4-11pm (including driving) then someone had to be home to feed the child dinner, etc).

    I know its frustrating for the person staying at home; I just want to point out that its not so easy-breezy for the traveller either. I don’t/wouldn’t have objections if she wanted to take off on a trip of her own (within budget limitations) and have encouraged her to do so with her friend. I guess this is a good reminder that I should encourage that she do that more. We were doing “date night” things, semi-regularly but have sort of fallen out of the habit.

  79. birgerjohansson says

    Vittra: Nordic ‘folklore zombie’ to hit Swedish cinemas
    Not really a zombie. The vittra…think of the dangerous thingies that inhabited the forest in the Moomin Valley children’s books by Tove Jansson.
    — — — — — —
    I am my own worst enemy. I just ate a whole 300 gram (2/3 pound) parcel of chips, on top of dinner. I don’t feel very well.
    — — — — — —
    Germany has a big debate about misogeny. One politician is exposed as an asshole who made lews comments to a woman reporter instead of answering the questions. This is the top guy in the Liberal party, the coalition partner of Angela Merkel’s Christian Democrats.

  80. rq says

    Yay for me-time! Mine just started. Hello, beer. Hello, Lounge.
    Also, for some strange reason, this picture has been making me laugh for the past two days.

    Since you have acquired your ticket (yay!!), I shall do the same. It’ll be my present from me to me, for my time. (Yes, I’ll be nice when co-ordinating with Husband, but I’ll tell him I’m going with you. In spirit.)


    Turns out I left the cat out on the balcony all afternoon. Oops! And here I am, alone with all three children. oOOoooo….
    And yes, we’re going to visit the Horses tomorrow (because I looooove theeeemmm). Somebody needs to be thanked for the final acquisition of House, and we were supposed to go last summer, during the boys’ knight-craze. (Although yesterday I spent about an hour going through an academic book on archaeology with Middle Child looking for all the sword photos… so the knight attraction might not be all the dormant after all!)

  81. Beatrice says


    I, umm, did something while trying to buy that seat so now it shows as taken but I haven’t given my card info or anything yet. Ah, if it doesn’t come back, I’ll just take another place.

  82. rq says

    It’s not a business trip. It’s an all-expenses paid ski trip. Annual. From his work to the employees. Annual. I can handle business trip, because that’s work.
    I have trouble handling long ski trips when I can’t even get a weekend off. Petty? Maybe so.
    Also painful.
    But thanks for that perspective. When Husband starts going on business trips (real ones), I’ll be sure to remember it.

  83. rq says

    Noooooo!! Need good seats!!!! :( I hope a better spot opens up just for you.
    Or maybe it shows up as reserved because you’re about to pay for it…? I have no idea how online booking really works. /bullshitting
    Good night!

  84. opposablethumbs says

    Nutmeg, huge YAYs for the mole news. Very glad to hear that it’s non-scary.
    dontpanic, I may have misunderstood but I thought rq mentioned that this was a 6-day skiing trip. Work-related only in the sense that it was work-organised and work-paid-for, and involved work colleagues. I thought it was all networking and skiing, so not the punishing schedule of an actual work work trip. But I may have misunderstood, of course.

  85. Portia, wishing for spring says


    Hm. Well good luck. I hope you get the second row one. The better to see the hopefully-fabulous shoes he’s wearing.

    And good night.


    Congrats on the good news, btw.

  86. rq says

    You didn’t misunderstand. Although it’s not even a networking trip. Purely social, in-house employees only (so yes, all the guys that he works with are going on the trip, too). No punishing schedule.

    They might be dropping in (dropping in!) on the skeleton championship in Saint Moritz tomorrow, too (ok, seeing as I’m definitely the bigger skeleton fan of the two of us, this is just me being insanely jealous about actually going to an event and seeing the best skeletonist everrrrr (who just happens to be Latvian) live).

    And anyway, the issue isn’t so much the fun ski trip. It’s being told that I don’t deserve the same under any circumstances, because that would make me… ungrateful.
    (Some of this also directed at dontpanic.)

    This is the sound of me closing the topic: *snickety snick*

  87. opposablethumbs says

    Oops, I posted without refreshing re rq and the skiing trip. But I didn’t misunderstand!
    Beatrice, if the bookings site is anything like the ones I’ve struggled with (and sworn at) here in the UK it is quite capable of showing it as taken if you clicked on it and then didn’t go straight to the checkout. They’re bloody annoying like that. If you wait a bit, the phantom seat-taken status might time out, and show it as available again?

  88. dontpanic says

    It’s an all-expenses paid ski trip. Oh, my, sorry, I missed that it was only work related in that very limited respect. There are some conferences that colleagues attend (I don’t ski so not of interest to me) that are I think are organized as work 2/3 day, ski the other 1/3 and I must have slotted what you said into that framework in my mind. But simply a ski trip? Hmmm.

    Well, fuck that. The company is shooting themselves in the foot right there, by introducing stress into their employees private lives; you can’t be the only spouse/significant-other who feels put out by that approach. Seems counter productive.

    Petty? Maybe so No, not petty on your part to be resentful. Now I’m pissed off on your behalf as well.

    Sorry, if I added to the stress.

  89. Portia, wishing for spring says


    I totally get you on the “you’re not worth the effort it takes to make your life a little fun” bit. It’s infuriating. For a while, S had time, money, and energy galore for weekend trips with friends (without me) but zero time to do anything special with me or for me. When I needed attention or set-aside time for us, he has work or kid stuff or parent obligations (his parents, who are a super-presence in his life). When I demand to be treated like a person, and not a fucking piece of furniture that will just be whenever he wants, then I’m too needy and whiny and just too much to deal with. Yeah. Shit sucks.

    So, my solution for myself is to do things with friends and not concern myself with him, to the extent that I’m able. It’s been kind of nice. In a bittersweet way.

    On a completely separate note, I got a half-price gift card for a local yarn shop. The 2 year old’s birthday party is right nearby it, so I am going to treat myself to some expensive yarn tomorrow. Woohoo!

  90. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    Yes, I will be watching the movie tomorrow night! Downloaded Found my old copy :D



    I am my own worst enemy. I just ate a whole 300 gram (2/3 pound) parcel of chips, on top of dinner. I don’t feel very well.

    I suppose I am as well *she says as she rolls up and puts away the 300 g bag of chips that she was in the middle of after having eaten dinner earlier*


    Good night, all!

  91. Beatrice says

    opposablethumbs, you were right, It resolved itself after some refreshing.

    I know it’s a closed topic and all, so I’ll just send *hugs*.
    Portia, yay for treating yourself to something you like.
    Good night for realz this time.

  92. rq says

    YAY!!! :) You reckless person you! tee hee… Well, I have to admit, Eddie Izzard is a little avant-garde. ;)

    It’s ok for misunderstanding. Not many companies do that kind of thing. It’s for team spirit, because it’s a 95% male company (Want to bet which positions the women have? *whisper* Secretaries and accountants!), so bros before… or something. No, you didn’t add to the stress (it’s already pretty way up there :P), it is currently a pretty hot topic to me, so I also touch off pretty easy. I’m not angry or mad or resentful (at you), and thanks for the support. :)
    Apparently next year they’re changing things up a bit (because I agree about the stress-in-the-family bit and that reflecting badly on the company), since it’s also a small company, and while most employees started as single young bachelors, more and more of them have (a) child(ren) and spouses/SOs, and I think even a few of the management are starting to feel a bit of pressure from their other halves in this respect. Next year they’ll apparently just dish out an amount of money per employee for a trip of their choice. It sounds a lovely idea, but I hope nobody holds it against me if I say that I’ll believe it when I see it.
    Was that staying on topic?
    Damn. I suck at maintaining my own boundaries. Bed for me, then.

  93. Portia, wishing for spring says

    Oops, I missed the “closed topic” line, sorry rq
    I hope you sleep well!

  94. rq says

    In the shop: Yarn!!!
    After a heavy knitting sesson: MORE YARN!
    Also, YES. Being treated as a person = totally awesome. Too bad it takes so much effort, when other things don’t. It makes me wonder about priorities.
    As I said, we’ll see how things play out once he gets back and we move and blablabla (once life gets out of the way again), but if I have to, I’m prepared to take my own entertainment into my own hands. It’s just really annoying that it comes to that, because honestly, I married Husband for a reason. Several, actually, several excellent reasons. One of which was enjoyable time spent together. *sigh* Is nothing ever easy?

    Get thee to bed! See you tomorrow. ;) Good night!


    I haven’t eaten a package of crisps on top of dinner (I did have extra cake…), but I think I’ll to bed as well anyway. Good night!

  95. Ogvorbis says

    This is pitiful.

    1815 hours.

    And I am heading for bed.

    Amazing how tiring an 11 hour drive, much of it in heavy wind, heavy rain, or snow, can be.

  96. Portia, wishing for spring says

    tehehehehe kittehhhhs :)

    I really hope it works out that things are easier once your lives settle down. Lots of *hugs*in the meantime.

    Sleep well

  97. dontpanic says

    Yeah, those can be wearing. Many moons ago I once had to drive from the Chicago west suburbs to Lansing, IL, normally 4 – 4.5 hours, during the tail end of a blizzard. Around the bottom of Lake Michigan w/ the inevitable “lake effect” snow. Took us 14 hours. I had to go because of (then to be) wife’s birthday, but was convoying with friend who had to show up for muster / induction into the military (where showing up late is, ah, discouraged). Keeping up the hyper-awareness necessary to drive safely in such conditions is grueling.

  98. thunk, hull overheating says

    Indeed. Sorry, portia and rq, that privileged assholes have to find an excuse to keep you treated like shit.


    That’s rough. Lake effect snow is known for its suddenness. Also, I think Illinois does not occupy both sides of lake Michigan.

  99. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    One last thing before sleepytime:

    Is everyone getting ready for this year’s Puppy Bowl?! I will be trying hard to find a stream. I hear there’s some other event going on on the same day…

    Puppy Bowl!

    (Crossing my fingers that I didn’t screw up the link.)

  100. morgan says

    Yay Puppy Bowl!!! I hear they even have hedgehog cheerleaders this year! Wouldn’t miss it.

  101. carlie says

    My ridiculous kid:
    Summary: hit head. Got concussion. Terrible symptoms for three weeks straight, worsening even. Got MRI. Day before MRI, got hit in the head and fell down and hit his head again. Day of MRI (Thursday), came home after school, was walking strangely… more normally, more easily. Friday (today), stayed after school for musical practice (slept through a lot of it), seems almost back to normal. He says he is still dizzy and headachey, but not nearly as bad.

    My only conclusion is that it was indeed an otolith dislodgment that caused the symptoms, and the hit/fall in the hall at school pushed them (or most of them) back into place. Insert jokes about knocking sense into him here.

  102. carlie says

    Parrowing – Child 2 and I never miss the puppy bowl. This year – hedgehog cheerleaders!

  103. thunk, hull overheating says

    I’ve never watched the Puppy Bowl, but puppy headbutting seems more fun than macho man headbutting

  104. says

    … I can’t believe my wife and I had a fight over a Coach purse. Grrrrr… I was a bonehead and forgot that she wanted a new one. She could have just reminded me! Anyhoo, now I’m helping her shop for one.

  105. carlie says

    Catching up:

    Glad to hear, Nutmeg! Silly moles. :(

    I also miss Jules.

    rq – sorry I missed this earlier. You’re definitely justified in feeling put out, and I hope you manage to get through to your spouse that you DO work hard too, just in a different location than he does.

  106. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I have new running shoes. I have ACTUAL Running Shoes. Having my feet hurt instead of my shinbones is an interesting new experience.

  107. says


    Give them a couple of days. My feet are just now getting used to having actual cushioning and support again, and I’ve had my new shoes for a couple of weeks.

  108. Portia, wishing for spring says


    Glad kid is mostly ok : ) Sounds like there’s at least one person on the planet klutzier than me! (I’m interested to find out that Chrome recognizes “klutzier” as a word).


    I am really, really tired of otherwise (or so I thought) reasonable people telling me that Sandy Hook was a government set-up, or some such other offensive nonsense. My sweet, smart 31 year old cousin said this to me. Shortly after she said she thinks trans* people are “weird” and “unnatural.” I was trying to figure out exactly what to say, and our other (uber conservative “gay is a disease”) cousin looked at me and looked at her and said “We’ve had this discussion with [Portia]. She will not agree with you.” So at least one or two people know they will get argued into the ground when they say bigoted crap around me. It’s a start. : p

  109. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Give them a couple of days.

    My feet are worn out from the actual running, which the lack of shin pain enabled. ^.^

  110. says

    I am really, really tired of otherwise (or so I thought) reasonable people telling me that …
    Yes. So, so much. Although I’m just about as annoyed by the people who don’t buy into that bullshit saying “But they sincerely believe” that or “everyone has different [valid] opinions’ or similar acomodationist jackassery.

  111. Portia, wishing for spring says

    Ugh yes I am also sick of that one. My dad is super accommodationist and my mom quietly mumbles something about me being “just as judgmental” when I say something antitheist…


  112. says


    There’s nothing wrong with being judgmental per se that I can see. It’s all about what standards you’re using to make the judgment. If people are making judgment based on shitty standards, their judgements are not the same thing as the judgments of people who are using rational reality based standards.

  113. Portia, wishing for spring says


    That’s an excellent point. I mean, we’re asked to make moral judgments all the damn time, aren’t we? That’s the point of every freaking emotional appeal in every fucking human interest story ever written. We are asked to make moral judgments when we vote, when we work, and even when we buy vegetables. It is all about the criteria for judgment. And some people just can’t take it when their bases for judgment are pointed out as oh-so-fragile.

    Whew. Rant.

  114. says

    On a related note, I really think that there need to be two distinct subcategories of the term ‘opinion.’ If one feels that bowlers are more stylish than fedoras, or that Jim Morrison was a better songwriter than John Lennon, that’s an opinion; there’s no objective answer, and whatever you believe is as true for you as the opposite belief is for someone who holds that. If you believe that you really like Morrison, and aren’t a fan of Lennon, you’re right, pretty much guaranteed (assuming you’ve listened to both, of course). On the other hand, if your opinion is that gay people are just choosing to defy god, or that what the country really needs to solve its problems is to ban abortion and make christian prayer mandatory in schools, then we’re talking about facts, and the fact that that’s your opinion carries no actual weight, because there we can empirically observe the effects that these things have, and they aren’t what the people whose opinion it is say they are.

  115. bluentx says

    I weep for humanity…
    There is a long list of comments on FB on George W. Bush announcing the death of …Barney Bush. The dog.
    These people are writing as if they think George is actually reading every word, like they’re best pals! Then again, George isn’t doing too much these days……..

  116. bluentx says

    Jeez! Now I done it to myself!
    I’m picturing GW in front of a computer, in a dark room, wearing a stained and torn sleeveless undershit, two or three days worth of beard growth, blood-shot eyes, empty whiskey bottle on it’s side on the floor… He’s waiting for each and every comment to come through…

  117. Portia, wishing for spring says

    I think the weak plans I had for the evening have fallen through. I have the heat set high but my toes are still cold. I think I might huddle in bed and watch tv.

  118. says

    I’m just… oh so depressed.

    I’m almost so close to being a grown-up! I can’t tell if I am or not, or which side of the line I’m on, or which side I want to be on. I’m just oh so very shallow. Never mind. Good times!

  119. says

    On the other hand, I did make this really amazing meatloaf the other day…

    Question: How do you cook something “bacon-wrapped” where the bacon is nice and crispy, and the thing it is wrapped around doesn’t dry out? I did “bacon-wrapped meatloaf patties” that were seriously incredible, but the bacon got fed to the dog because it was soggy and gross.

  120. Nutmeg says

    iJoe: I’ve had success with bacon-wrapped stuff on the barbecue or campfire. Not sure how you would do it without a flame, though.

  121. says


    You should only have food in your house about the size and shape of a baseball for the next week, and you should feed your kid by tossing him food just far enough away from his center of gravity that he has to lean and reach for it… I can give you recipes if you need them. :)

  122. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    Improbable Joe, I’d try pre-cooking the bacon in whatever way you normally do, up to the point it still flexes, let it cool, wrap with it, and cook the wrapped thing. But supposedly the bacon fat moistens the wrapped thing, so that might not work.

    (Icky bacon is icky. My mom used to cook green beans with bacon, in one step, and wind up with the world’s nastiest slice of slimy bacon—-I fry bacon, then fry green beans in the grease, then crumble the bacon back in, and it is incredibly different.)

  123. rq says

    Good morning!

    re: the offspring
    Teenagers. They never do what you want/expect them to. ;) I hope all his parts are mostly back in place, and that he recovers well (also from all subsequent head injuries)!

    Improbable Joe
    Do you place the meatloaf patties in a covered dish? For crispiness, things like that can be cooked without the lid – the bacon will keep the wrapped patty moist, but the bacon itself should come out crisped. Also a higher temperature for the first ~15 – 20 minutes or so should do the trick. Or removing the lid + higher temperature for the last 15 – 20 minutes (although I suppose meatloaf patties don’t take all that long to cook…). We usually try one of these tricks.
    Also, I don’t want to grow up!

    I laughed out loud, too.

  124. says


    That’s a good idea, I’m going to try it next time. I don’t think enough bacon fat rendered off of the slices to have any effect on the moisture of the meat. I’ve created a sort of seasoned slurry that makes any meatloaf awesome by definition, the bacon is only a fancy flourish.

  125. says

    Good morning rq!

    I actually put the bacon-wrapped meatloaf open and on a roasting rack so that it would have heat hitting it from all sides and wouldn’t swim in juices, and at a pretty high temp. I just realized that the likely problem is that the meatloaf was already so moist that it was steaming the bacon from the inside, even as it was crisping from the outside.

  126. rq says

    Ah, the physics of thermal systems…! :)
    I’m sure there’s a solution somewhere out there, because crispy bacon is a Necessity of Life. (I have to admit, though, when I eat it alone or on sandwiches, I like it crispy around the edges, but meaty in the middle of the slice… Travesty? Perhaps. But you can’t make me change my mind.
    Speaking of which, I haven’t had real bacon in years.)

  127. bluentx says

    Good Morning, rq.
    The Ramones!
    Loudest concert I’ve ever been to! (My ears were still ringing when I woke up the next morning.)

  128. bluentx says

    Meant to say: Loud but FUN!
    The audience participation was almost as good as a midnight showing of Rocky Horror!

  129. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    On a related note, I really think that there need to be two distinct subcategories of the term ‘opinion.’ If one feels that bowlers are more stylish than fedoras, or that Jim Morrison was a better songwriter than John Lennon, that’s an opinion; there’s no objective answer, and whatever you believe is as true for you as the opposite belief is for someone who holds that. If you believe that you really like Morrison, and aren’t a fan of Lennon, you’re right, pretty much guaranteed (assuming you’ve listened to both, of course). On the other hand, if your opinion is that gay people are just choosing to defy god, or that what the country really needs to solve its problems is to ban abortion and make christian prayer mandatory in schools, then we’re talking about facts, and the fact that that’s your opinion carries no actual weight, because there we can empirically observe the effects that these things have, and they aren’t what the people whose opinion it is say they are.

    In other words, we need to stop confusing “position” with “taste.”


    Also, how threadrupt am I? I am still drunk, and had a friend drive me HOME for the first time ever. I have mixed feelings again. :(

  130. says

    Good morning

    Yay for Nutmeg

    Maybe I’ll join you tomorrow

    The German misogyny debate
    The important thing is that the article in which Laura Himmelreich (the journalist) talked about Rainer Brüderle (the politician) was just the starting point and it se t of an avalanche where women started to speak up about everyday sexism (Hashtag #Aufschrei, those on my twitter might have noticed that my tweets were more in German than usually). And I tell you, it was all there:
    -Why didn’t she talk about it back then?
    -Since she didn’t report it to the police nothing happened
    -If women don’t want men to talk about their tits they need to hide them, why do I think I have the right to wave my tits around?
    -She should apologize to him
    -Men are men and women are women!
    – Why aren’t you talking about Mali?

    Point in case, I just talked about it with Mr.
    His initial statement was “What he said wasn’t that bad, come on”. We talked a bit. In the end I asked him to imagine the reaction hadn’t it been Brüderle talking about how well a woman’s tits would fill a Dirndl, but Westerwelle, the gay minister of foreign afairs talking about how well a male journalist filled his undies.
    His own spontaneous reaction showed him the problem…

  131. Beatrice says


    Maybe I’ll join you tomorrow

    If this is about the movie, we’re watching it tonight.

  132. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Now my friend has my phone because I was trying to get him to go ahead and order the sushi he wanted instead of canceling his plans to take care of me.


  133. strange gods before me ॐ says

    My opinion is that all opinions are claims about facts.

    If someone says “gay people are just choosing to defy god”, they are making a claim about reality, as you noted. About a facet of reality that other people have similar degrees of access to investigate, and so can reasonably challenge.

    If someone says “I really like Morrison, and am not a fan of Lennon”, then they are also making a claim about reality. In this case about a facet of reality, the content of their own mind, which other people have less access to. We might reasonably assume they are reporting reliable introspection, and thus that the claim is true.

    If someone says “Jim Morrison was a better songwriter than John Lennon”, this is different from the preceding claim. It is a claim about reality outside their own mind, a claim that Morrison is better, and not just more liked by the speaker.

    Before assuming that this claim is impossible to evaluate, consider an easier instance of this type of claim, easier because the gap is wider: “Morrison and Lennon are both better songwriters than strange gods is.” This is a fact, and it shows that claims of this type can be evaluated for their truth value. Perhaps we have not yet developed precise enough methods to determine all close calls. And, less likely but possible, perhaps the problem is computationally intractable. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a correct answer (which someone could arrive at by chance via an unreliable method).

    The social problem, imho, is that a lot of people hold the incorrect belief that we should respect each other’s opinions.

    We should not.

    We should kindly argue about who is a better songwriter and be ready to tell people they are wrong if they think Jerry Garcia is better than Robert Smith. We should tell people who are wrong about gay rights that not only are they wrong, they should stop arguing about it. We should assume that a speaker reporting their personal feeling that they find gay sex gross is reporting reliable introspection, and we should tell them to shut the fuck up anyway because they are only hurting people by talking. We should assume that a speaker reporting personal preference about who’s a better songwriter is reporting reliable introspection, and therefore not fight about it — not because there isn’t a correct answer, but because the speech is not socially harmful and the speaker is the person best situated to know the answer.

  134. says

    We should kindly argue about who is a better songwriter and be ready to tell people they are wrong if they think Jerry Garcia is better than Robert Smith.

    You got a citation for that one?

  135. Beatrice says


    It sounds like you are feeling guilty. This is an isolated incident, you don’t regularly burden your friend with having to take care of your drunk ass. It happened, and I’m sure your friend won’t resents you, it could have happened to him too and you would have probably done the same and took care of him. Friends take care of drunk friends and all that. :)

    Being a person who guilts herself beyond a healthy point, I realize this may cause you far more anguish than changing plans to take care of you ever caused your friend. In that case, I’m not sure how much It’s ok, it wasn’t trouble from that friend will help, let alone from us. But really, don’t upset yourself too much, and if you can’t help it… well, trying not to drink enough to get drunk will probably be the best solution.

    Getting drunk makes me feel horribly guilty about not having complete control over myself, even if I’m not at the point where a friend has to take care of me, so I usually don’t drink too much. It just isn’t worth despising myself the other day. But I’m hoping you don’t go that far and you’re just a bit drunk-sad. In which case, I hope you’ll feel better when you sleep it off!

  136. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Now that the joke has reached its intended audience, I’ll note I don’t actually feel confident that I know which one is better, though I do believe there is a right answer.

  137. says


    Two things have happened.

    I realized that I haven’t felt a single urge to self-harm this time. Not one. Wow. This feels really weird, man.

    I had an epiphany about the anger — I’m angry at myself for being weak and “allowing” myself to be abused. I know, on a rational level, that it wasn’t my fault, but part of me… part of me believes I deserved it. I’m angry at him, yes, and I’m not what you’d call fond of him (I’d like it if he were discovered dead in a ditch, but would never act on that thought; I’ve seen enough violence for several lifetimes).

    But mostly I hate myself for being a perfect victim and playing right into his manipulations. I did a lot of things that I am not proud of. I agreed with him and went along with whatever his scheme was just to keep him happy. He always found something that was “wrong” or wasn’t to his satisfaction. There’s… there’s a lot of guilt and self-blame and, well, I recently broke something on my parents’ property (a gate), entirely by accident, and I was scared to own up to it because I didn’t want to make Dad angry. I know that the worst thing Dad will do is swear a lot, but still… my instincts are going “large angry male — HIDE!” I did own up to it, by telling Mom. Felt good, actually.

    And then there’s the fear. I’m afraid of being vulnerable again. I’m afraid to trust. I’m afraid to get comfortable. I’m scared shitless of letting people in. So I get anxious. Then panicky. Then comes angry flailing to push people away, because I don’t deserve to have good people around me, and all I’m gonna do is drag ’em down with me. (Reality says otherwise, I know… but this involves my brain, and my brain is far from being a perfect rational machine.)

    ….and for a quick check in to let you know I’m still breathing, that was a Wall Of Text™

    Back to self-reflection and nourishment of the “soul” (so to speak).

  138. ChasCPeterson says


    but back to the songwriting thing: I think that imagining a single Great Chain of Songwriters is absurd on the face of it. Music (like Life) evolves in a tree (albeit with many reticulations) and allowances must be made for genre. Any criteria (objective or not) that could be applied to judging among, say, 19th-Century German Lieder would be nearly 100% inapplicable to the Garcia/guy-from-The-Cure comparison.

  139. Beatrice says


    Good to hear about your progress. I hope it helps you deal with those feelings.

    (And just to aid your rational part a bit, of course the abuse wasn’t your fault and you didn’t deserve it.)

  140. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Any criteria (objective or not) that could be applied to judging among, say, 19th-Century German Lieder would be nearly 100% inapplicable to the Garcia/guy-from-The-Cure comparison.

    Assuming (not conceding) this is true, then, normalize for genre. A measure of Lieder-artist’s-proficiency-within-Lieder-genre-constraints will be unitless.

  141. says

    Do you accept hugs from the queen of having a bad conscience, i.e. me?
    I was always the friend yo could rely on, and you could also rely on me not bothering you with my shit, so yeah, accepting that sometimes things are about me is still hard.
    But you’re clearly more important than Sushi.

  142. ChasCPeterson says

    I don’t think there’s enough normalization possible to permit nonsubjective comparisons of Schubert and Woody Guthrie, or even, like, Joni Mitchell and Chuck Berry. Cole Porter and Carole King. Stephen Foster and Bob Dylan. If each of these examples (and of course your favorites too!) have, as I believe, that certain je ne sais quoi of greatness in songwriting, there’s more in that each is a different je ne sais quoi. No statistically normalized criteria will trump the essential subjectivity of such judgment.

  143. rq says

    Pile of assorted *hugs* full of je ne sais quoi for anyone in need who wants, but mostly to soothe all the hurt feelings out there.
    Should I tell cicely that the offspring have fallen under the spell of Horse (homeopathic Horse, to boot)?
    No, better not.

  144. Ogvorbis says

    Wife and I are watching The Weather Channel right now. There was an advert for Hallmark in which they claimed, for Valentine’s Day, that “Yes, we have a card that says that!”

    Wife immediately opined, “Bullshit. There are lots of things that the cards don’t say. Such as, ‘Happy Valentine’s Day: Your Fly is Unzipped.'”

    Others that got tossed around: Your library books are overdue; you have spinach in your teeth; you have toilet tissue dragging on your shoe; etc.

  145. strange gods before me ॐ says

    I notice that I’ve been using better as though its meaning was identical with skilled at something, where something is as yet undefined, but that usage is incorrect.

    What I said here should be rephrased by substituting more skilled for better.

    Assuming that skilled at producing in listeners a feeling of having identified a certain je ne sais quoi of greatness is the moon at which the finger points, that feeling is a psychological phenomenon which can be studied by a science of aesthetics. And so we could learn to say what quoi is, and then, assuming the necessary algorithms are not computationally intractable, sort all songwriters — ultimately removing most of the fun from the debate. :)

  146. Portia, wishing for spring says

    Damnit. I did so well avoiding the various plagues going around, and now I have a sore throat. Damn damn double damn. No birthday party ice cream for me today : (

  147. rq says

    Here, what flavour will the ice cream be, Portia? I could look up some medicinal qualities of the ingredients for you, if you like… So you can justify having ice cream. ;)

  148. Portia, wishing for spring says

    You are a Justifier Extraordinaire! Thank you very much, I will now make a sugary assault on my inflamed throat and feel no guilt! Huzzah!

  149. says


    Lynna: That’s inspiring. From now on, whenever I have secksytimes with BT, I’m going to call it a Mormon Moment. And post online about it. Sooner or later, LDS will notice it. I will be waiting for their response excitedly.

    Morning Glory! (and afternoon glory, and evening glory, and middle of the night glory)

    That sounds like a good plan Minnie. I for one would love to be treated to Finnish sexy times.

    I think you may find yourself obligated to have lots of sexy times in order to satisfy the Pharyngulite appetite for such mm’s.

  150. says

    Bryan Fischer offers proof that the Republican Party is NOT the party of Stupid:

    Last week, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal spoke at a Republican National Committee meeting where he declared that the GOP has got to “stop being the stupid party” and that is not sitting well with Bryan Fischer, who got fired-up over it on today’s “Focal Point” broadcast on the grounds that Jindal was buying into Democratic attacks and helping them brand the GOP in this manner.

    And the GOP is not the stupid party, Fischer insisted, because “conservative ideas are not stupid; they are wise, they work, they are strategic, every one of them; conservatism works every single solitary time it is tried, we don’t have to apologize for a single solitary conservative idea.”

    Fischer recognized that sometimes conservatives might “misspeak” on occasion, as Todd Akin did with his infamous “legitimate rape” remark … but that just proves Fischer’s point because Akin was “completely accurate about that,” thus demonstrating that “our ideas are not stupid and the people who advocate them are not stupid”…

    Video also available at the link:

  151. says

    Following up on the Moment of Mormon Morning Madness @552: an ex-mormon offers this:

    Iron Hardware
    69, Takeitupthe Avenue
    Vagjay Jay

    I guess there are addresses invested with way more sexual innuendo than the Morning Glory address that mormons objected to in Utah.

  152. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    Good luck, iJoe!


    Urghlalediurgl. What’s that? You don’t know what that sound means? Why, clearly it’s the exact description of how I’m feeling right now. Dizziness, achiness, chills, and upset tummy. :-/

  153. says

    Much empathy to all those suffering flu symptoms. Arrrggghhhh. May you heal soon, and well.

    Don’t send that shit to everyone in the Lounge.

    Seal up your ports!

  154. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    Good luck!!! Don’t get lost! May the house still be there when you return!! Have fun! Uhhhh… Way to go! Congratulations! Yay! Ummm… :) See you later?

    Hot tea with ginger and honey coming down the USB! Ready your mug! (Ginger does wonders for the upset-tummy feeling, at least things usually feel better once I’ve puked it out. ;) )
    Will you be princessbriding with us anyway? Or will you let a lowly virus stand in your way? (No pressure…!)

  155. rq says

    Oh. I missed Lynna’s insistence on sealing USB ports. No wonder it’s all sloshing back over my own keyboard. :/

  156. Beatrice says

    Groundhog Day …I hated that movie the first time I saw it and haven’t watched it since. Maybe I would like it better now.

  157. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says


    Or will you let a lowly virus stand in your way? (No pressure…!)

    Never! I’m feeling okay sitting up so I think I can manage. But, umm, rq, you don’t have to or anything *scuffs foot against the floor*, but could you maybe sneakily open your port back up? Before Lynna notices? Only I don’t have any ginger and honey tea… come to think of it, the only tea I have is chai.

  158. chigau (違う) says

    How did those rodents see their shadows when the sun wasn’t up?
    I don’t think this groundhog stuff is an accurate way to predict weather.

  159. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says


    Groundhog Day …I hated that movie the first time I saw it and haven’t watched it since. Maybe I would like it better now.

    I also hated it the first time I saw it. I think I’ve caught it again a few times since (it’s one of my mom’s favorites). Not that I would be opposed to watching it again.

  160. Matt Penfold says

    We just has St. Swithin’s Day in the UK, where folklore has it if the weather is nice, we will experience some severe cold and snowy weather before spring, whereas if it is dull, overcast and maybe raining, winter will soon be over.

    It was a lovely sunny day this St Swithins’, here in Wales.

  161. rq says

    Matt Penfold
    Was St Swithin, by any chance, a groundhog?

    *quietly opening port for a SLOOSH of tea, as described above*
    Here you go! But shhhh!!!!!

    I also hated Groundhog Day the first time I saw it. But I saw it again a couple of years ago, and you know what? I kind of liked it.
    Maybe… maybe tomorrow after all? ;)

  162. says

    *hugs* for the ill

    Good luck, IJoe
    Granting that there are at least potentially semi-objective standards for music, change my argument to “Which tastes better, apples or pears.” There is a substantive difference between that type of opinion, where no one but the holder has any knowledge of the facts (which one they prefer), vs an opinion based on public facts, like political positions.

  163. carlie says

    My first tweet this morning was a quote from Groundhog Day. It’s one of my most favorite movies.

  164. Ogvorbis says

    Wife and I are going with Girl and the Future-in-Laws (sounds like a band) to a sushi hibachi restaurant. We have no clue what to order at a Japanese restaurant. Wife likes tempura and udon but neither one of us is wild about raw fish (though I like tuna tartare). Should be interesting.

  165. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    I think GMT +2, as in rq‘s 11 pm. Am I correct in thinking you are in CET? Because if so, we start at 10 pm.

  166. Ogvorbis says

    And I have to wonder just how many times our housecat has been killed or maimed by a vacuum cleaner. It terrifies him. Big time.

  167. rq says

    +2. Otherwise I have 40 minutes to get the eldest to fall asleep and youngest in bed… :/ Is that still ok?

    Sushi is like magic. Magic wasabe. /jealous
    Most of everything else on the menu is delicious, too. With few exceptions. (Usually. I have no idea of the quality/reputation of the place you’re going to.)

  168. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says


    Ooh, ooh! Get chicken teriyaki! …Or, you know, don’t order based on my preferences. That works too. Have fun!

  169. Beatrice says

    Parrowing, yep, I’m on CET
    rq, I’m home and doing nothing so any time is fine.
    I was just checking for what time to make popcorn :)

  170. Beatrice says


    Aw, thanks.
    Seriously, people, when are we going to start on making this happen? This commune of ours sounds better and better every day.

  171. morgan says

    We could locate it somewhere near Glen Beck’s proposed new “city” of Independence, Tx. That would just bug the hell out of him. Might even make him cry.

  172. Portia, wishing for spring says


    (Just don’t over do it, Portia. ;) )

    Muuahahahaha i had six flavors of frozen yogurt. Thankfully it was the pay-by-the-ounce style, so I had just a little dollop. MMmm it was yummy.

    And I’ve been craving sushi for a few days now. Yum.

    I started my day with ginger and honey tea, how did you know?!

    Now I’ma try to make some bread for my aunt’s party tonight.

  173. rq says

    Oh Portia, you’ve been a naughty girl again!
    Sounds delicious. What flavours did you have?
    And good luck with the bread.

    My computer clock says 8 minutes until movie time.


    Observation of the day: Sometimes it’s easier to take the kids places sans Husband, because it eliminates a lot of unnecessary discussion and cajoling on Saturday mornings when our thoughts differ as to the family’s expected activity level of the day. Yes, sometimes I enjoy being a tyrant.

    Science fact of the day: Lithuania is now a planet.
    Source: the following conversation, today ca. 2PM, on the way home –
    Eldest: When I grow up, I’m going to buy a horse and I’m going to teach it to do cartwheels.
    me: I don’t know if horses can do cartwheels.
    Eldest: I will teach it. And it’s going to be so strong, it will be able to hold four planets, one on each foot.
    me: Four? Wow. Which ones?
    Eldest: Lithuania, Saturn… I guess that Mars planet or something…


    4 minutes.

  174. rq says

    Oh and morgan. Potentially a good idea, but how’s Texas for natural resources (besides oil, haha)? Arable land, etc. Although, if we’re close enough, we could probably leech off of Independence, and make them wonder how those hippies down the road are doing so well when their own energy-efficiency is in the huge negatives. (Except I doubt they’d be particularly prepared for an apocalypse.)
    Now that’s a thought.

  175. rq says

    Children’s rooms are archaeological digs.


    The first time I watched this movie, one of the girls I was watching with kept insisting that I watch Cary Elwes’ lips every time he says ‘As you wish’. I still do that, for some odd reason.

  176. says

    The US government and state governments have used, (are continue to use), money from taxpayers to promote one-man-one-woman marriage, often to the detriment of single mothers and other constituents.

    Below are a few excerpts from a much longer article “One Marriage Under God”:

    In 2002, the Bush administration diverted over $100 million dollars from existing welfare programs to create the Healthy Marriage Initiative, a national program to disseminate the importance of matrimony. Displaced funds included $14 million from child welfare, $6.1 million from a child support enforcement program, $9 million worth of support for refugees, and $40 million from a development strategies program focusing on Native Americans. Three years later, the US government sanctioned up to $150 million more per year to support “healthy marriage and responsible programs.” A change of political parties has not tempered the flow: in the last fiscal year, Congress approved $75 million in spending on marriage promotion activities and $75 million for responsible fatherhood initiatives.

    As the sociologist Melanie Heath shows in her fine-tuned “One Marriage Under God: The Campaign to Promote Marriage in America,” Oklahoma’s program takes several forms. At the core of the program is Prevention and Relationship Enhancement Program (PREP),… The audience for these courses is mostly heterosexual, white, and middle class. … and a special course taught to welfare recipients, compulsory in exchange for aide…

    Heath follows the Oklahoman PREP classes over the course of almost a year …The homophobia she encounters is staggering. …This is as strong case as any for the reality of what Adrienne Rich described as “compulsory heterosexuality.”

    Again and again, the PREP classes stress the importance of traditional markers of gender: … “All women … want to feel like a princess. If you make her feel like a princess, she will make you feel like a king, if you get my drift.” … “Back in your place, ladies!” these workshops might as well announce. In case the message wasn’t clear, one workshop Heath attends adds a reading of Ephesians 5:22-24: “Wives submit to your husband as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church, his body, of which he is the Savior.”

    In Pleck’s case studies, marriage promotion laws come across as a means of getting the upper hand on the poor …throughout the 1960s, women on welfare …were intensely scrutinized for their potential cohabitation….Surveillance and policing from outside was not enough … During “Operation Bed Check,” an Oakland raid in January of 1963, inspectors entered hundreds of homes at midnight to determine whether a man was inside. This overtly paternalistic program vividly illustrates how the dissolution of these private hierarchies had been transformed into a matter of public concern.

    Our current welfare system, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), lists marriage promotion as one of its explicit goals. States routinely discriminate against the single or the nonmarried; funds are allotted in order to encourage couples to marry, however unwillingly. “One area of greatest success for the backlash against the sexual revolution,” Pleck writes, “was welfare policy, where prejudices about sexuality, marriage, and race were joined with taxpayer desires to cut the welfare rolls.”

  177. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    I’m pretty sure I had a large crush on Cary Elwes when I was younger because of this movie.

  178. rq says

    Haha, Beatrice! :) You have to watch especially closely on the last one, when she asks for the jug. So you know for next time. ;)

  179. rq says

    Oh and then he had appearances in The X-Files, which is neither here nor there.


    Unemployed in Greenland!!!

  180. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    I had a friend who named her ferret The Inconceivable Vizzini. She also liked this movie.

  181. rq says

    At least it was a ferret. I can’t imagine yelling The Inconceivable Vizzini throughout the neighbourhood just to get the dog to come home. ;)

  182. rq says

    Also, I love the politeness and concepts of fair-play in the movie (at least in the duel between the Dread Pirate Roberts and Inigo, and also his fight with Fezzik). It’s just so… Polite and fair. You know, the way a nice, clean world should work.
    (Also speaks to the confidence of the characters in their own abilities. You know, I know I can beat you in a fair fight, so… take a break!)

  183. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    I really need to read this book. I was wondering why the cliffs are called the Cliffs of Insanity and then I realized I would probably know if I had read it.

  184. rq says

    Actually, I’m not sure if it was explained… Well, in a basic way, as in, people trying to climb these cliffs go insane because the cliffs can’t be climbed.
    I think Beatrice is actually reading the book (in process), I read it years and years ago. But I hearilty recommend it. Be warned, though – it’s very different from the movie. In set-up and concept, that is. The basic story is the same.

    And I’m not left-handed, either!!!!

  185. Pteryxx says

    ahh, spoilers! *hides*

    (Is anyone watching this who *hasn’t* seen or read it before? … Just me? k. )

  186. Beatrice says

    My reading is a slow process since I only read a little bit in the evenings. And my problem with reading in bed is that I soon fall asleep, no matter how interesting the book.

  187. carlie says

    Mm speaking of kissing books, Chapter 2 of The Boss is out.

    Boy howdy, is it! I’m quite enjoying it so far.

    And yes, Parrowing. Men in Tights ruined him for me, though.

    I so wish I had never seen that movie. :(

  188. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    And yes, Parrowing. Men in Tights ruined him for me, though.

    At least he can speak with an English accent.

  189. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    I guess I was too young to remember anything about Men in Tights. I know I’ve seen it but I don’t remember much. The crush on Cary Elwes was definitely gone by the time or immediately after I saw Liar, Liar.

  190. Beatrice says

    Faithfulness? He died 5 years ago, and she is only engaged now, but she didn’t wait enough? Hmph

  191. rq says

    It does make a bit more sense in the context of the book, but yes.
    I mean, as far as she knew, he was dead

    I love Humperdink’s little fanfare every time he rides off.

    Then you and books is a bit like my mum and TV – anything after 9PM better be short and to-the-point!

    Oooh, Janine! I had a question for you re: books. You mentioned 1491 in Thunderdome; I’m wondering, have you read Stolen Continents (same theme) by Ronald Wright? Just curious about your thoughts on the book.

  192. carlie says

    That is one part that bugged – besides that yes, 5 years is a long time, the other answer is that “Well, I would be dead if I didn’t”. It’s not like she had an actual choice whether to get engaged to the prince or not.

  193. rq says

    Turns out youngest is running a bit of a fever. Dammit, children, get sick when you’re alone with your father! We were supposed to have a good time!
    (Still watching the movie, all is well, carry on!)

  194. rq says

    Not fair at all. More stories end with that dream ending than the ultimate fairy-tale ending.

  195. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Oooh, Janine! I had a question for you re: books. You mentioned 1491 in Thunderdome; I’m wondering, have you read Stolen Continents (same theme) by Ronald Wright? Just curious about your thoughts on the book.

    No, I have not read it.

  196. anonymouschristian says

    Hello, I’m a Christian, but because of what I’m going to write and how easily findable certain online stuff is, I don’t want to reveal my identity. Quite simply, I’m here because in my personal life I’m suffering a great deal of bullying because of my facial appearance, social awkwardness, Scottish accent (I live in England), my tendency towards shouting against those who call me names and hit and kick me, and because I have learning difficulties in class as well as having suffered seizures before and because I support gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose.

    I’m really sorry that all that’s a mouthful, but that’s everything I can think of when trying to look from the POVs of the bullies. The point is I’m writing here because I desperately need a support network outside of my Christian surroundings, because it’s proven really unhelpful and has depressed me even more to the point where I’m actively considering suicide.

    I suffer from acne on my skin as well as a big head as well as being a little overweight for my age, which means I constantly get picked on at my college as they basically laugh at the fact that because of my looks I’ll pretty much never be able to find a girl who would ever want to be with me. I’ve tried so many products to try and improve my looks but it’s like nothing works at all and I just get derided further. I’m not someone who is good at making conversations easily so I often feel like a third wheel and I have only very few friends (like 1 or 2) who I’ve ever really managed to get close to in my entire life, which my bullies also take the piss out of me before because they’ve got bigger gangs of friends. And then there’s my accent, which because of it being Glaswegian means it’s a very easy target for ridicule and I have no way of being able to handle it especially when they get into the nationalist derision of Scottish people.

    I do have a temper problem and have a habit of shouting abuse and attempting to defend myself when subjected to abuse physical or psychological by the bullies, and while I’m okay and even good in some classes, other classes I really don’t perform well in at all and I get ruthlessly bullied for the fact that in those classes I have used learning support advisors. Because I also have a minor form of epilepsy (meaning that I’ve only ever had full blown seizures once every few months due to my medication being fairly effective, I get people acting out my seizures in a really horrible way. And then there’s my support for gay and pregnant woman rights, which gets me abuse and death threats because my friends think I’m a moral monster.

    The reason I’m coming here is because everything else I’ve turned to just seems to make things worse. My parents just tell me to “ignore them” and tell me not to be silly and melodramatic, and they as well as many counsellors and not so close friends of mine keep trotting out the really fucking annoying cliches like “many people have it worse than you” and “it will get better” and insisting that I have “so much to live for”. The teachers also tell me they’ll sort out the situations and yet nothing ever happens and the bullies are still there.

    Worse still are, ironically, the people who are supposed to form my core support group, with my local Church members simply telling me that all I need to do is pray to God with all my heart and he’ll stop the bullying, even though I’ve been doing this for years and years and nothing ever happens, while other Christians are telling me that God has a plan for me that will benefit me, and yet the situation I’m in is not remotely beneficial and I fail to see how it can possibly get any better. I’m told to take solace in Jesus’s love for me, but I’ve asked him to intervene so many times and yet I still get beat up and abused and spat on, and I end up feeling more suicidal by the moment. And of course the fact that they chastise me for supporting positions they don’t agree with doesn’t help either.

    And then there’s my closest friends. They have been genuinely heartwarming towards me and have managed to lift my spirits by constantly including me in whatever fun events they have planned and I can happily have conversations with them where I don’t feel as awkward with them, but sometimes they still slip into the cliches that make me feel down, and combined with the fact that the wave of abuse I get on a daily basis, it’s sadly not enough for me even though I really wish it was because I can’t stand what’s happening in terms of the bullying and general lack of caring I receive from the majority on a daily basis.

    Which is why I’ve come here. One of my closest friends basically told me that maybe I need to go outside the Christian circle for help, and that she’d heard good things about some atheists who apparently are quite good at helping out really desperate people due to them also being humanists, so I was directed to FreeThoughtBlogs since there’s supposed to several people who have that expertise.

    I’ll admit that as much as I respect the atheist position, I’ve always just assumed, to a possible fault, that the Christian position was better, and I’m really sorry if it turns out that like in my position at college I’m in the wrong. Everything else I’ve tried has failed, and I feel so hopeless and pathetic and I feel like I’m doomed to forever getting bullied and always being alone romantically and always isolated in terms of how many friends I’ll ever be able to make and hold on to. I’ve got nowhere else to turn and it’s becoming increasingly difficult to resist just ending my life because it’s not like most people in my life would even fucking care, in fact they’d probably welcome it. A group I’ve been part of and still would like to be part of have massively let me down and caused me to question everything about how useful being a Christian ever even was to me, since it did nothing to stop my bullying and just provided me complete non-solutions to my problems.

    I need someone, anyone, who can genuinely understand and help me, because I just feel completely lost and I don’t see the point in continuing my life.

    Yours sincerely,

    Anon Christian

  197. rq says

    The bizarre dialogue is the best. But try ruling the world sometime*!
    (Not to fifty!!!)

    *Sounds like privilege to me.

  198. rq says

    I prefer her earlier words: I’m not a witch, I’m your wife!
    And no swimming! But have fun storming the castle!

  199. Ogvorbis says

    unagi (freshwater eel) is always cooked.
    (and yummy)

    I tried eel once. Once. Eel made me ill. Violently. I know it wasn’t the eel, it was food poisoning, but, well, I just can’t get past that memory.

    Potentially a good idea, but how’s Texas for natural resources (besides oil, haha)?

    Texas has a long wild fire season, so FossilFishy would feel right at home.

    I’m pretty sure I had a large crush on Cary Elwes when I was younger because of this movie.

    I’m hetero male and I had a bit of a crush on Cary Elwes thanks to that movie.

    Janine: The same author as 1991 has also done 1693 which focuses on the Columbian exchange — for good and ill.

  200. rq says

    I think that is the single funniest line in the whole movie. And I was going to quote it, dammit! Way to steal my thunder! ;)

  201. rq says

    Be warned, I, too, have an over-developed sense of vengeance!
    (When I was younger, I actually felt most emotionally and otherwise aligned with Inigo, for no particular reason – my father wasn’t brutally murdered by a member of the aristocracy and I have not spent my life learning fencing to avenge him. But I think it’s because both of our names start with ‘I’ (my real one does, at any rate).)

  202. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Anon Christian,

    No guarantees that we can help, but you can open up here, and we’ll do our best not to give useless advice. I do think that from the way you are hurting you might benefit from talk therapy with a professional — also no guarantee but sometimes it helps. I’m wondering, is it a Christian college? Or are you interacting with a mostly Christian group of peers at a secular college? I ask in part because if it’s a secular college you might get decent on-campus therapy. You still might at a Christian college; it’s not as though they never employ qualified people, but if it’s a highly evangelical campus then they might not encourage evidence-based practices.

  203. Ogvorbis says

    But I think it’s because both of our names start with ‘I’ (my real one does, at any rate).)

    So, in real life, you are iq? How very intelligent of you.

  204. rq says

    You have no idea. ;)


    Agreed, this was fun! And interesting. :) Maybe we really should do Groundhog Day sometime. (Or anything else we decide.)

  205. anonymouschristian says

    @strange gods before me

    It’s a secular college. But I have real difficulty connecting with any kind of counsellor, especially an on-campus one, because I can’t shake the feeling that the only reason they are there is because they are paid to be. And from the counsellors I’ve had, nothing’s convinced me against this belief.

  206. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Janine: The same author as 1991 has also done 1693 which focuses on the Columbian exchange — for good and ill.

    That would be 1491 and 1493.

    1991 would be the year that punk broke. Allegedly, 1693 is the year that champagne first popped.

  207. Ogvorbis says

    You have no idea. ;)

    Considering my usual level of discourse, that goes without saying.

  208. Ogvorbis says

    That would be 1491 and 1493.

    Yeah. That. Sorry.

    (and it shows that my #810 was dead on!)

  209. rq says

    Expect those beliefs to be challenged here, quite heavily. Be ready to be wrong.
    But. If you ever need to vent, to ask for advice, to say things that just need to be said, I can guarantee that you’ll probably have no better place than this. (From personal experience. Plus, I’m probably biased in favour of this group.) From the diverse experiences of the people commenting here, someone will have a helpful word or idea.
    If you’re open to hearing things you might not like (not insults, just ideas that you might not agree with initially or ever), if you’re open to learning, and are prepared to be considerate, accepting and welcoming of others, then this is definitely the place for you.

    Just don’t try to convert or evangelize. I’m pretty sure that’ll be shut down pretty quick.

    That’s not much of a welcome, I know. So, in case all of that sounded a bit harsh, have a warm drink, a comfortable seat, and see if this place is for you!

  210. Ogvorbis says

    If you ever need to vent, to ask for advice, to say things that just need to be said, I can guarantee that you’ll probably have no better place than this

    Quoted for truth.


    One of the most amazing things about this place is that, no matter what has happened, there will be someone here who, while not having your experiences, has experienced something close enough to allow empathy. I’m not sure I can help much (have too much cluttering up my own minimind) but even if you don’t hit something I can grok, I’ll still ‘listen’.

    Yes, therapists are paid for their job. Then again, they chose that job, chose to go through school studying that, because they want to do that job.

  211. rq says

    I thought you were a historian. Shouldn’t you know your dates inside out and backwards to boot?

  212. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says


    I’m glad you decided to comment here. I’m afraid I don’t have any useful advice, or at least any advice that you haven’t heard before. Please do keep commenting if you find that it’s helpful to you. I don’t get the impression that you have any interest in proselytizing, so maybe this will end up just feeling like a nice place to chat for you? I’m trying to find a way to offer you hugs without making it sound like I’m trivializing your situation (assuming you like hugs from internet strangers, and if you don’t, then feel free to leave the hugs on the floor). I do care about what you’re going through and I hate that you’re going through it.

  213. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Yes and no, I mean, yeah they might have preferred to stay home on any given day, but they get into the profession in the first place because they want to help people.

    I view therapy in such a way that I don’t mind the transactional nature of it, though. I’m not there to make a friend; I just want help from someone who is fairly likely to be able to help. They’re paid to keep what you say confidential (within certain legal limits) and they’ll do what they’re required to do. Well, I can’t tell you how to feel about it; that’s just my perspective.

    I do expect that you’ll be welcome here if you decide to stick around. You might be the only Christian here at this time, but Leigh Williams was a Christian too and welcomed here. If you see fit to venture off the Lounge thread, though, you might want to change your pseudonym first (just make a note saying that you’ve done so). Some people on the non-Lounge threads just would not expect an overtly Christian commenter to be engaging here in, uh, good faith. We get a lot of trolls, is all.

  214. Ogvorbis says

    thought you were a historian. Shouldn’t you know your dates inside out and backwards to boot?

    I am an historian. And I do not remember dates (well, I do remember that there are two important dates in English history: 1066 and I can’t recall the other one). I am very good at remembering the order that things happen and am (usually) quite good at getting things in about the right era, but I don’t remember dates. I am also mildly dyslexic — especially with numbers (when I sold cars, I once drew up a sales contract for an Isuzu Trooper for $61,149.00 — luckily, my sales manager spotted it and changed it to $16,149.00 before we put it in front of the customer).

  215. Beatrice says


    I’m glad you have a couple of close friends who support you. You are also welcome to vent here, and we’ll try to give you as much comfort and kind words as we can.

    I can’t offer much help beyond listening to you, but I find that just sharing troubles here and receiving a whole bunch of *hugs* and compassion can sometimes help.

    If you haven’t yet, follow SGBM’s link in #792. There’s good advice there.

  216. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says


    I view therapy in such a way that I don’t mind the transactional nature of it, though. I’m not there to make a friend; I just want help from someone who is fairly likely to be able to help.

    I like this aspect of therapy as well. I acknowledge that even a therapist cannot always react in a way that isn’t influenced by what they think I want to hear as opposed to what they think I ought to hear. I do trust, though, that most therapists will try harder to do so than most friends will. That’s not to say that it isn’t also nice to have friends to talk to (for some people, not necessarily all), but when I seek therapy I don’t expect or desire friendship.

  217. Parrowing buıʍoɹɹɐd says

    I do, however, desire and expect to have my name remembered, which did not always happen with one of my therapists. :-/