But of course it had to be » « Forever disappointed

Episode CCCLI: Going goth

Well, gosh, threadketeers, this week we’ve learned that atheist chicks are easy and goth. Easy is, well, easy, but I had to look up how to be goth. Just in case, here’s the answer.

Oh, my…I already liked Siouxsie and the Banshees and the Cure. I’m almost there!

(Episode CCCL: All hail the Swarmanoid.)

But of course it had to be » « Forever disappointed

Comments

  1. says

    Doesn’t burning a few IDiots at the stake count toward being Goth?

    And even if I don’t, they’ll always yowl–or in Luskin’s case, squeak–bloody persecution when asked to provide any kind of evidence.

    Glen Davidson

  2. Francisco Bacopa says

    I had no idea that Joy Division’s manager was credited with coining the term “goth”.

    JD is a great band. Look them up on youtube if you don’t know their music. Nothing like Peter Hook’s basslines and Ian Curtis’ brooding deep baritone.

  4. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    I like the music, but the estetics are way too much work.

    And PVC and leather becomes stinky in clubs.

  7. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Pteryxx, I now fully grok popcorn ratlets. Holeeeee shit, it’s *unbelievable*. I can’t stop laughing and boy, do I feel sorry for Esme.

    Aww! Video?
    (I’ve been sitting here quietly wishing I could house some of the ratlets (I’m particularly taken with the golden ones), but I’m moving soon and my mom has this whole fear of rats thing. She’s also afraid of sock monkeys and Ray Liotta, so… *shrug* what can you do.)

  8. Pteryxx says

    Caine: hee! I was taught the term looong ago in animal research. (“Um, ‘popcorn’ is a technical term here?” “Yep, just like ‘pinkie’.” ) (Also, *never* drop a cage of 15-day-old ratlets/mouselets. Gravity will CEASE for them. Sproinnng!) ~;>

  9. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Pteryxx:
    Do they float like astronauts in space?

  10. Pteryxx says

    Not quite, but they go off like tiny rockets. I’ve startled a cage full of popcorns in my hands, and some of them sproinged so far they hit me in the face (and those were MICE).

  11. says

    Josh @28 in previous thread: I hope you offered to take the guy and his wife out for a drive one day soon. Suggest a picnic — maybe they’ll bring half the food. You’ll probably hear all kinds of tales about Life with Car.

  15. says

    Cipher:

    Aww! Video?

    We’re going to give it a try next week, no guarantees! :D P.S. I love sock munkehs. I have a red and white striped one.

    Pteryxx, Magrat took a bad fall yesterday from doing a full court popcorn on me, she scared me half to death! Oh, and she fucking *bounced*. (Amazingly enough, she’s okay.) Next week, I’m going to pick up a pen for them to run around in, I can’t control them on my own without some sort of enclosure. Any sudden sound and *boom* popcorn ratlets going off all over the place! I’ve never seen anything like it.

  16. David Marjanović says

    *in fact, just here are hugs for everybody*

    *wallows in hug pile*

    I actually know an intersexed person who this happened to. At birth, the docs examined zir, decided that the penis was “adequate,” created a cosmetic scrotum, and sewed the vagina shut. Didn’t check the internals – zie has a complete and fully functional uterus and ovaries. Thirteen years later, zie started menstruating, but had no exit. Cue monthly agonizing pain and sickness, when zir body tried to re adsorb all that tissue.

    Of course, zie is now, as a result of all this (and the near-constant infections) is too unhealthy to be a good candidate for surgery to re-open the vagina. Apparently there is a huge chance of zie dying on the operating table.

    *is completely out of words at such cruelty*

    *passes the entire hug pile on*

    Zie would have major grounds for a lawsuit. The stress might be worthwhile if zie needs the help paying for medical bills.

    Oh yes, if the doctor whose degree should be retracted is still alive, or if anyone who ever granted them a degree is still alive.

    Cosmetic surgery for this purpose on babies is child abuse. Nothing less.

    Seconded.

    Ceci n’est pas

    un commentaire.

    The 50 Cutest Things That Ever Happened.

    …Later.

    Will be interesting to see if my favorite is in the list.

  17. says

    Cipher:

    She’s also afraid of sock monkeys and Ray Liotta…

    You can’t really blame her for the Ray Liotta thing.

    Last summer, he was filming a movie called Beyond the Pines in my town. While the other actors (Bradley Cooper and Eva Mendez, mostly) were seen out and about, the only place Ray Liotta went besides his hotel was this one Italian restuarant, by himself, and order the same dish night after night. Kind of creepy, but apparently he was a good tipper.

  18. Pteryxx says

    Caine: about weaning age they calm down to a more reasonable ratlike level. Enjoy popcorning while it lasts!

  19. carlie says

    She’s also afraid of sock monkeys and Ray Liotta…

    I tried to watch Corrina Corrina once. Couldn’t do it. I just kept yelling “Run, little girl! Ruuuuuunn!!!” at the screen.

  21. says

    Pteryxx:

    Enjoy popcorning while it lasts!

    Oh, I plan to, every moment I can grab! I have never in my life seen anything like it. I don’t even know how to begin to describe it, except that they go off like wild popcorn kernels, often for no fucking discernible reason whatsoever. Just the sheer excitement of being on the planet. :D It’s a truly joyful thing to watch.

    I’m really jazzed I get to go through this with Rubin’s crew. I’ll be a bit better prepared this time. Popcorning is something of a shock when you don’t know its coming…

  22. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    The Colorado shooting took place in the theater nearest my best friend and his family. I can’t get a callback, text, email, or Facebook msg from him, his mom, or his boyfriend. All day. I don’t know what to do.

  23. Beatrice says

    Josh,

    I’m sorry if this is a stupid suggestion that you of course thought of already, but is there anyone who lives reasonably close who you could call to check on them?

  24. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    No, Beatrice, there isn’t that I know of. Trying to find his siblings and nieces and nephews online.

  25. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Jebus, Josh, that is horrid!

    I hope your friend and his family are okay. I’m guessing that service in that area might be restricted? Maybe?

  27. Tethys says

    I am incensed over JAL’s slum lord. I have some experience in this area, and am trying to do some research on applicable laws.

    If I remember correctly, she is in Arizona?
    Can anyone confirm? JAL are you still here?

    I am reading their laws on the issue, and it looks like this is a clear and serious breach of rental laws.

  28. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Thank fuck. . .G just texted me. He’s in a work retreat today. Everyone is fine. He reminds me he and I went to the movies there last year when I was in town.

  29. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Josh@28, glad to hear it; that was scary.

  32. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Me too. I still feel like I’m gonna throw up, but it’s getting better.

  35. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Just got off the phone with G’s mom. Says shooter attended college she works at as of last year.

    Luckily no one we know was hurt (well, fucking unlucky as hell for so many people). The theater is literally across the street from G’s house, and given G likes to go to late movies it wasn’t a wild misplaced worry on my part.

    Phew.

  36. carlie says

    This is a much-needed balm for the week. It’s been up for awhile, so you may have seen it, but it’s an orchestra/choir flashmob in Spain. It’s beautiful.

  37. Beatrice says

    These flashmob videos always make me cry happy tears.
    I’m such a crybaby.

  38. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    “Ode to Joy” may be the most overplayed piece in classical music but it always makes me bawl. There’s some strange alchemy in that melody.

  41. says

    Josh:

    There’s some strange alchemy in that melody.

    It is what it says, an ode to joy. It evokes beauty, happiness, creativity, love, life, triumphant celebration. It makes us feel that we can be the rising ape meeting the fallen angel.

    Humans can be achingly beautiful. I sorely needed to be reminded of that today, so thank you very much, Carlie.

  42. Brownian says

    Glad to hear your friend is okay, Josh.

    “Ode to Joy” may be the most overplayed piece in classical music but it always makes me bawl. There’s some strange alchemy in that melody.

    Sometimes I put on NetFlix, queue up Immortal Beloved to this scene, and just let it wash over me.

    I’ve tried listening to it on the bus on my way to work, but that’s just embarrassing for all.

    If I’m driving, late at night, I’ll put on something from Paul Simon’s Graceland or The Rhythm of the Saints, sing at the top of my lungs and intermittently sob with happiness.

    Sometimes even music cannot substitute for tears. So I do both.

  44. says

    “I refuted this within hours of [an] article in the Washington Examiner suggesting that Bane would be tied to Bain Capital and Mitt Romney appearing,” Dixon told Comicbook.com ahead of The Dark Knight Rises’ release in cinemas in the UK and US on 20 July. “Bane was created by me and Graham Nolan, and we are lifelong conservatives and as far from leftwing mouthpieces as you are likely to find in comics.”

    Some critics, including the Guardian’s Catherine Shoard, have identified a different political affiliation in Bane’s determination to overturn Gotham’s wealthy, established order, one that Dixon said he was far more inclined to accept.

    “He’s far more akin to an Occupy Wall Street type if you’re looking to cast him politically,” said the 58-year-old writer. “And if there ever was a Bruce Wayne running for the White House it would have to be Romney.”

    You see why I hate that self righteous little shit face Dixon? Morrison actually made it a rule that Batman cannot beat up on low level thugs or druggies or the stuff because of the class issues. He either has to just intervene in violent assault or focus on organized crime; otherwise it’s a rich man beating up the peasants.

    Dixon glorifies Batman because of those issues. One of the many many many reasons I hate that shit guzzler.

    That and he couldn’t not open his stupid fucking mouth to politicize it. He is a total shit head.

  45. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Re: carlie’s post @ #36 – How anyone can dislike that video is beyond me. Wiping away tears as I type. I just wish I could’ve been there in person.
    ——————————————-

    Holy fucking Christ, Josh, I’m glad to hear your friend is OK. I can’t really imagine why anyone would do such a thing. One of the kids mentioned it, but it wasn’t until I read the thread that I learned the whole story. Fucking messed up.
    ——————————————

    *goes back to previous thread, makes notes of all suggestions for getting rid of offending recliner*
    ——————————————

    I wish I could just airlift a huge crate of everything you need right to your complex, JAL. And maybe drop a crate of whoop-ass on your manager’s front step. People like that make me wish I had fangs.
    ——————————————-

    Let’s just say that I had the strangest image when I saw “popcorning rats.” The reality isn’t just less strange, it’s also way cuter. Jeez, this is making me REALLy want a rat when my dog is too old to give a damn about chasing critters around anymore. I’d be afraid to let her around one at this point in her life, her still being peppy enough to try going after a skunk a second time (I swear she doesn’t remember what happened the first time she tried going toe-to-toe with one, the silly furball…)

  48. says

    @ Josh – so happy you heard your friend is safe.
    @ carlie – thank you for the video link; it brought tears of joy to these old eyes. After all the shit going down in Colorado I was in need of something cheerful.
    Oddly whenever I hear “Ode to Joy” I want to follow with this version of Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D Minor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgbgUrp1a70 and this version by ’80s Brit band Sky is my personal favorite.

  49. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Fun fact: I have the Ninth symphony playing on iTunes right now.

    Jebus, I love that set of music.

  51. says

    Brownian @ 42 – glad I’m not the only person in the world who does crazy things to Graceland – I put it on and try to keep up on my exercise bike. If I’m alone and driving I will sing (well sort of) along too – just belt it out at full volume as long as nobody can hear how bad I am :)

  52. says

    Caine, avec prémédité méchante langue – I just can’t (safely) play Toccata while driving – it makes me want to put my foot down and keep it there :o

  53. David Marjanović says

    Thank fuck. . .G just texted me. He’s in a work retreat today. Everyone is fine. He reminds me he and I went to the movies there last year when I was in town.

    *phew*

    Videos later.

  54. carlie says

    I just realized I didn’t cite it – it was at Shakesville today.

    I’ve watched it four times now.

  55. says

    Fantasy author Nora K. Jemisin replies to some arse who thinks white male expertise is a given but everyone else who might appear on a convention panel is more likely just a “token.”

    (I’ve thrown in paragraph breaks for better readability in a narrower column. See aforementioned arse’s comment for explanation of the numbering in the last paragraph.)

    But let’s consider your criteria, which will most likely produce a whole bunch of panels consisting solely of white men. 1) What’s the cost to the con of selecting panels that way? In the short term nothing; maintaining the status quo is cheap and easy. In the long term, substantial, because like most SFF cons Readercon has been “graying” (at least until it started making recent efforts to change the way it does things; dunno if that’s reversed or just slowed down the trend).

    Having just come back from San Diego Comic Con, where I was anything but a token woman on several panels and sooo not a token brown face in the crowd, I can tell you that the younger readers of SFFdom aren’t interested in hearing a bunch of old white guys patronize them. Why would they, when instead they can go to any number of cons where they’ll see faces like their own, hear voices like their own, speaking — with genuine, lived expertise — about stuff they actually care about?

    So potentially, maintaining the status quo costs the con… its existence. I’ve already discussed 2) and the fact that all-white-guy panels can only speak with relevance about stuff that white guys know and love, which would be fine if SFF consisted solely of white guys. And as for 3), again you have to consider the short term and the long term, or rather the small and big picture. If the con as a whole can stay relevant and valuable to the potential membership, then it will easily draw people who can pack a room. If the con’s pond grows smaller, it’ll draw increasingly small fish, until at the end you’ve got nothing but a bunch of very similar, very insular people gabbing at each other about the good old days. While everybody else goes to Comic Con.

    Sound familiar?

  56. David Marjanović says

    From the previous subthread:

    Cipher, you may be interpreting my extreme ratio of fucks as an indicator of greater stress than others. In this case, it’s a mostly calmly calculated response to indicate the gravity of the topic; I simply don’t believe I could be understood properly without all these fucks.

    I’m not sure if this works on the intended audience. To me, one of your first comments comes across as you completely losing your shit; it’s good that I knew beforehand that that was a wrong impression.

  57. carlie says

    Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D Minor

    DAH da DAAAAAAA!!!! Dadadadadaaaaah, daaaaaaaah.

    Sometimes it’s nice to be reminded with a really good performance that the standard classics got that way because they’re so lovable.

  59. carlie says

    I just adore the fact that, when confronted with an orchestra, the response of almost any child is to try to conduct it. :)

  60. says

    Same arse, and the struck-out text is my editorial comment:

    Before this Elevator moderator guy gets banned from cons for life (or something similar), is there any we can read what he said or even get his POV? I can’t think of a way he can defend his actions, but I don’t like a person not having a chance to defend himself.

    More idiocy:

    Is calling you “Missy” that bad? Perhaps it is. I’m a guy and my perspective is skewed. When you call out someone online for their behavior, it’s reasonable to ask you to explain said behavior beyond “it was bad”. (Not your quote, just a paraphrase.)

    I am not defending [moderator Theodore] Krulik.

    Did I mention that I am not defending Krulik? All I’m saying is this. Before we create a conga line of righteous indignation, can the OP explain more as to why Krulik was such a problem?

    And when told off thoroughly by a subsequent commenter, who then tells him “Good day” because she doesn’t want to argue with a goalpost-shifter, he continues to JAQ off. How dare she question his intelligence and empathy “simply because I asked for clarification by the OP instead of simply accepting her words at face value“?

    There’s even more from him, but none of it’s worth copypasting.

    On another note, Genevieve Valentine also mentions in her OP that she dealt with a persistent creeper at Readercon. A commenter who knows his name and googled on him found

    a number of comments on forums where anti-harassment issues were discussed (in regards to various anime/gaming cons). He seems to be of the opinion that if women are at a con, they are basically asking for whatever physical/verbal responses they get from men.

    And there are defenses of the creeper on her third page of comments, including the ever-popular MEBBE HE HAD TEH ASS BURGERS!! Sigh.

  61. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I’m not sure if this works on the intended audience. To me, one of your first comments comes across as you completely losing your shit; it’s good that I knew beforehand that that was a wrong impression.

    Makes no difference. What’s relevant is whether it’s possible to parse my meaning — which it evidently is.

  62. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    “MEBBE HE HAD TEH ASS BURGERS!!”

    What does this mean?

  64. ibelieveindog says

    Mark1957 said:

    glad I’m not the only person in the world who does crazy things to Graceland

    My mother had a pudgy Jack Russell terrier that I called my roly-poly little bat-faced girl.

    I’m going to take a break from real life, which was oh-so-shitty for so many people today, and do the Snoopy dance to some Paul Simon.

  65. says

    @Janine

    “MEBBE HE HAD TEH ASS BURGERS!!”

    What does this mean?

    It’s a South Park reference. “Ass burgers” means asbergers.

  66. says

    This is what I tend to listen to when feeling down.

    I’m up to posting 90 links to the roundup. Cipher, I apologize for the mass of editing which I’m sure you’re having to do.

  68. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I fucking hate LOLspeak. Long before she became the hero of misogynistic creeps everywhere, I stopped ERV because I could not take LOL.

    Damn, also I missed the Asperger’s/ASS BURGERS bit. Nice way to deal with people who have real issues, compare them to creeps.

  70. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    My mother had a pudgy Jack Russell terrier that I called my roly-poly little bat-faced girl.

    My sister has a pit bull that I call Murderface.

  71. says

    Sigh, My 8-year-old took my ipod nano, Louise, without permission, and apparently lost it in the empty lot where the neighborhood kids go to play and build forts. I guess it’s just gone. Dammit, I loved that nano. Had a beautiful gelskin on it and everything.

  73. hotshoe says

    Classical music …

    A different kind of “classic” music:
    Mickey Hart Band playing classic Grateful Dead tunes (and better than the originals, by far) available for free legal download from the band’s website links here

  74. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Caine, I can’t help but think of them as your Popplers. You could make a deal with Fishy Joe’s maybe.

  75. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Today my brother and I found a white damselfly behaving super weirdly and a wasp thing that was really really cute! (YES CUTE)

  76. carlie says

    dang, kristinc. Can the whole family go out and search for it? Might still be there somewhere. That’s so hard, to try and teach kids respect for people’s things without accidentally making them think that things are more important than they are. Good luck with what will be a tense evening.

  78. says

    @kristinc

    Sigh, My 8-year-old took my ipod nano, Louise, without permission, and apparently lost it in the empty lot where the neighborhood kids go to play and build forts. I guess it’s just gone. Dammit, I loved that nano. Had a beautiful gelskin on it and everything.

    I had one of those. Still have it somewhere, but haven’t used it in 2 years. I hated that thing. It would never let me do anything and it doesn’t support all my audiobooks under linux.

    First and last Apple product for me.

  79. cm's changeable moniker says

    this version of Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D Minor

    What? Where’s the ****ing fugue?!

    Oh. Here it is. /pedant ;)

  80. Nightjar says

    a wasp thing that was really really cute! (YES CUTE)

    Did you take any photos? I love wasps.

  81. says

    Can the whole family go out and search for it? Might still be there somewhere.

    Yeah, Misterc went out and scoured the lot for it, no dice. Tonight we plan to ask the neighborhood kids we know that often play there, and anyone my daughter may have visited with filched nano in tow. We’ll offer a reward. But I think probably whoever has it is going to keep their new free ipod.

    I’m pretty heartsick about it, it was a holiday gift from Misterc about 3 years ago and about the only thing I wanted that year. The novelty of such a wee cute thing holding alllll my music just never wore off. Sniff.

  82. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    So help me Spud, I laughed at Colbert’s lesbian joke.

    Sorry.

  83. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    I like the graphic versions of Bach & Co., but I really wish I understood music.

    –o–

    Apropos of nothing. I removed my keyboard, blew so air at it without any visible effect, and yet the intermittent shortcircuiting and the overheating has disappeared. I would be the least surprised if I actually drove out an evil spirit of sorts.

  87. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    *WTF?* *hears clucks and laughs in the backgroud*

    It looks like the goth contingent of the Pullet Patrol™ made a picture to startle a poor old fat man.

    *Shakes fist in general direction of the Pullet Palace™, hears more clucks and laughs*

  88. says

    “And if there ever was a Bruce Wayne running for the White House it would have to be Romney.”

    sooo romney is dark and obsessive, and leading a double life?

    (I know what he meant, I just strongly disagree. I hate wealth-as-a-virtue batman. Aren’t we supposed to hate bruce wayne when he is acting like a dipshit in front of the press to cover his secret identity? ugh.)

  89. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Skeptifem, it depends on the actor. I am sure that Adam West is meant for this one.

  92. rowanvt says

    >_> Anyone in the horde want a 6 week old chihuahua that is a weak parvo positive if she makes it?

    We wanted to do the parvo test while she still belonged to her former owner. We were offering her a free first exam to help offset the cost of the cost of the test.

    Her response, and I quote, “Well, I have the money but not for something like that.”

    Immediate response from myself and the other morning tech: “Would you surrender her to us? It won’t cost you anything at all that way.”

    So after this morning with one barely there positive, some SQ fluids + antibiotics + anti vomiting drugs later she’s bouncing around, sleeping, and generally complaining if she’s not being held.

    And she’s living in my empty 10 gallon fishtank.

  93. says

    Skeptifem, something I’d rather not say on the monstrous thread (because a lot of people in that thread don’t know my background):

    I see a lot of people rushing the “insane” route in order to distance because they can’t handle the idea of a regular, average (or above) person (to all appearances) doing something so terrible and shocking. If they don’t do that, there’s this awful thought that given certain circumstances, they might do the same sort of thing and that’s a thought they’ll do anything to deny and avoid.

    Most people deny having an inner monster, so to speak. I came to terms with my inner monster decades ago. I know I’m capable of monstrous acts. Most people, however, will go to any length to deny they could ever do X, no matter the circumstance, therefor, any person who does do X, regardless of circumstance, must be crazy.

  94. ChasCPeterson says

    better than the originals, by far

    I suspect you know nothing, but thanks for the link!

  98. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Caine, I have to be honest, I do not understand that attitude. I know that I can harbor very dark and disturbing impulses. There are people that I would love to see in pain. It is hardly an idea that I share with others. This is because I try to hold myself to an ethical standard. But it does me no good to deny that it is there.

    As it stands, I know that humans can commit great acts of kindness and generosity as well as vile acts. It is our history, our legacy and our future. This coming from nowhere except from ourselves. And I am always pissed off when good acts are attributed to a deity and when bad acts are attributed to demons. This is nothing less than to take away what choices that we humans can make, making everyday human actions in an other and somehow, supernatural.

  99. Tethys says

    Cipher

    Excellent photos of the Ichneumon wasp. I have no idea which species it is. I love her orange legs.

  101. says

    If they don’t do that, there’s this awful thought that given certain circumstances, they might do the same sort of thing and that’s a thought they’ll do anything to deny and avoid.

    That is a bit of a false dichotomy. People can have a hunch that a murderer is mentally ill (as a contributing factor) and also recognize that mental illness can happen to anyone. The question is more one of how justified people feel in heaping hatred on the accused.

    The argument you are making makes sense if you think of mental illness as equivalent with “crazy” as a slang term, or only as something that features hallucinations or delusions, etc. I don’t think everyone who is speculating views the problem that way. It is curious to me that this debate is so offensive when speculating on the mental health of a person who committed suicide is not. The majority of people who have committed similar acts had mental health problems.

    Most people deny having an inner monster, so to speak. I came to terms with my inner monster decades ago. I know I’m capable of monstrous acts. Most people, however, will go to any length to deny they could ever do X, no matter the circumstance, therefor, any person who does do X, regardless of circumstance, must be crazy.

    I think that most people know that people who act monsterously have something wrong with them. The debate is about what that something is (or could be), and to a lesser extent whose fault it is that something went wrong inside a person.

  102. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    The silicon chip inside her head has switched to overload.

  103. says

    Janine:

    Caine, I have to be honest, I do not understand that attitude.

    I understand it. Most people want to, and do, consider themselves to be good, decent people. A good, decent person would never commit such an act. Or so they tell themselves. And in order to maintain that illusion, they other the “bad” person as a monster, as a crazed nutjob.

    If I ever had the capacity to hold such illusions about myself, it was killed off at a very early age.

  104. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Cipher

    Excellent photos of the Ichneumon wasp. I have no idea which species it is. I love her orange legs.

    Thanks, Tethys! I liked the legs too. My mom said she was a Nightmare Before Christmas bug. Having looked through Bug Guide a little, I’m thinking Therion morio maybe? Does that seem right to you?

  105. says

    on another note: I am getting hits to my blog from some thunderf00t place and also a phpbb called “slymepit”. lovely.

    its more depressing than the search term results that send people my way, thats for sure.

  107. says

    Skeptifem:

    I think that most people know that people who act monsterously have something wrong with them.

    Well, that’s the thing – a lot of people, mass murderers in particular, don’t act monstrously at all until the day they walk into a restaurant, office, theater, whatever place and start shooting.

  109. says

    Well, that’s the thing – a lot of people, mass murderers in particular, don’t act monstrously at all until the day they walk into a restaurant, office, theater, whatever place and start shooting.

    That doesn’t mean there wasn’t something wrong with them.

  110. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I understand it. Most people want to, and do, consider themselves to be good, decent people.

    I guess I have too much of a grounding in history, I have too good of a grasp of the harm that “good, decent people” can do. And that I am an capable of it if I do not watch myself.

    There is no supernatural entity protecting me nor tempting me. The job is mine, like it or not. I just wish that those people who like to delude themselves, saying that they could never do that would face reality.

    But I will admit, it is rather harsh.

  111. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    *turns on cam*
    Alright ladies of the Pullet Patrol™, here’s some feed of the Redhead Eating a Popeye’s Chicken dinner.
    *turns off cam*
    *shows video of last Kninja Knitter™ practice lead by the Redhead*
    Any questions Ladies of PP?
    *silence from the Pullet Palace*

  112. John Morales says

    skeptifem:

    I think that most people know that people who act monsterously have something wrong with them.

    Most people probably imagine that, but it’s a pointless thought since we all have something wrong with us.

    (You don’t imagine anyone is perfect, do ya?)

  113. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    on another note: I am getting hits to my blog from some thunderf00t place and also a phpbb called “slymepit”. lovely.

    Skeptifem, for what it is worth, you have my sympathy.

  114. says

    Skeptifem:

    That doesn’t mean there wasn’t something wrong with them.

    No, it doesn’t. However, this is missing my point. The reason I’ve seen many people rush to other as “monster” / “insane” / “crazy”, etc., is that it’s a form of psychic defense. It’s a way to deny that circumstances could possibly see them doing such an act.

    Janine:

    I just wish that those people who like to delude themselves, saying that they could never do that would face reality.

    Afuckingmen. I wish they would face reality too.

    But I will admit, it is rather harsh.

    Sure it is, however, as you say, the responsibility is on us. You can’t take responsibility when you won’t face reality.

  115. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    *don’t tell the PP, but I Photoshopped Pullet silhouettes over menz silhouettes on the targets. The Kninja Knitters™ are deadly no matter what the target*

  116. says

    I guess I have too much of a grounding in history, I have too good of a grasp of the harm that “good, decent people” can do. And that I am an capable of it if I do not watch myself.

    A lot of the women I’ve known, myself included, grew up with a sense of constantly being wrong and horrible, and having to do all kinds of shit to not feel like total monsters all the time. It is impossible to know how many are in the camp of feeling like they could *never* do something awful vs feeling like they are always doing something irreversibly terrible (unless these ideas are related to self esteem measures, which seem to vary based on how people are raised and social attitudes).

    john morales

    Most people probably imagine that, but it’s a pointless thought since we all have something wrong with us.

    (You don’t imagine anyone is perfect, do ya?)

    why would you imagine all the problems to be essentially equivalent, or less worth examining because you think the extent is the only thing that is varied? We are discussing if problems exist which lead specifically to mass murder. If such a thing exists it should be worth a lot of attention to try and understand it.

    Fuck I feel like I am taking over this thread with this instead of leaving it in the monsterous thread. I don’t wanna hijack though I am enjoying the discussion.

  119. says

    No, it doesn’t. However, this is missing my point. The reason I’ve seen many people rush to other as “monster” / “insane” / “crazy”, etc., is that it’s a form of psychic defense. It’s a way to deny that circumstances could possibly see them doing such an act.

    “monster” puts all the responsibility on the shooter. “crazy” puts none of it on him. I don’t see those conclusions as equivalent.

    It could be a form of psychic defense for some people, but it could also be genuine speculation into what causes people to behave that way.

    I am starving and out the door to go eat somewhere. Thanks for the great discussion everyone.

  120. John Morales says

    skeptifem,

    why would you imagine all the problems to be essentially equivalent, or less worth examining because you think the extent is the only thing that is varied?

    What makes you imagine I imagine that?

    We are discussing if problems exist which lead specifically to mass murder. If such a thing exists it should be worth a lot of attention to try and understand it.

    Well, yes. But perhaps with a little more specificity than just the claim that there is “something wrong with them” would be appropriate, since as I noted we all have something wrong with us.

    Fuck I feel like I am taking over this thread with this instead of leaving it in the monsterous thread. I don’t wanna hijack though I am enjoying the discussion.

    Relax — you’re not. :)

    (Endless, this thread is)

  121. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Stanley Milgram called. Or sent a telex or something.

    Anyway he said bzzzzzt.

  122. says

    Skeptifem:

    “monster” puts all the responsibility on the shooter. “crazy” puts none of it on him. I don’t see those conclusions as equivalent.

    If you’re othering, they match up fine. “He’s a monster! He must be insane to do such a thing.” If you convince yourself of that, you’ve put the shooter at a safe distance from yourself, the “good, decent person who would never, ever do such a thing.”

    Enjoy your dinner.

  123. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    There Will Come A Day-Steve Wynn

    I love this song. (I know, I love lots of songs. I am very promiscuous.) I often think along the same lines. But I know that it cannot and should not happen.

    But it is a damned good release.

  125. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Now that’s just mean. You’re going to put those girls off their egg layin’. :D

    I can’t get in the way of that. Patricia would fire my sorry ass. So I toss out some extra grog soaked corn with a calcium/vitamin D supplement for the PP, which encourages egg production, then wear steel toed troll stomping boots and leather chaps under the tutu to protect from petulant pullets. ;)

  128. says

    I am getting hits to my blog from some thunderf00t place and also a phpbb called “slymepit”. lovely.

    ew.

    I’ve been getting links from TF’s new blog, too, but luckily been spared the slimepit-linkage so far

  129. says

    Janine:

    I guess I have too much of a grounding in history, I have too good of a grasp of the harm that “good, decent people” can do. And that I am an capable of it if I do not watch myself.

    Indeed. There is nothing special about humanity that makes us incapable of obscene, irrational violence. To quote Tim Minchin, “We’re just fucking monkeys in shoes.”

    There’s very little material difference between any random person in America right now and any random person who supported genocide throughout history. Cultural standards? Socialization? Sure. Sanity? Levels of rationality? Nope.

    I was perfectly willing and ready to kill a man once. It was self-defense, but that really doesn’t matter: the capacity to turn off empathy and seek another person’s death is there. I justified it through self-defense; others have justified it because they’re following orders, because they view the people they’re killing as something less than or other than themselves. We can aspire to rise above violence and we should, but that doesn’t mean that those who don’t are “other” than the rest of us.

  131. Tethys says

    cipher

    I think Therion is probably right. I wish bug-guide had a search by geographic region function.

    This picture looks very similar except for the head.

  132. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Jadehawk, eewwwwwww!

    Must be nice to know that someone is open about wanting you dead.

    Oh, wait. This is the internet. Nothing at all to worry about.

  133. 'Tis Himself says

    One of the best renditions of Cyril Tawney’s “Grey Funnel Line” is that of Cyril’s.



  134. says

    Any fashionistas here?

    I have my eye on two fabrics that I could use to make a dress with a sheer yoke, somewhat similar to this effect.

    What I’m wondering is, what do you do for a bra under it? Does it need a strapless, or just a bra in a coordinating fabric with straps that aren’t too utilitarian?

    I had a dress in mind that I could throw on for class or whatever, so a strapless bra seems a bit overkill, and going braless is not an option for me (and a camisole is a) too warm under a spring/summer dress and b) not enough support anyway).

  135. says

    I wonder if I could use my opaque dress fabric to make decorative “straps” under the sheer layer, placed to cover bra straps? I wonder if that would split my chest-shoulders up and make me look more wide shouldered though. Hm.

  137. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    I was puzzled by the spelling “womyn” that’s come up occasionally – only yesterday did it strike me that that it’s a deliberate attempt to expunge “man”.

    I feel stupid.

    And I really, really wish we could bring back “werman” for the male of the species, but I do realise that train has long since sailed.

    Odd that I’m so annoyed by neologisms, while trying to be a descriptivist. I guess my roots are showing.

  138. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Caine, I can’t help but think of them as your Popplers.

    Damn you Josh, now I have this stuck in my head!

  139. Pteryxx says

    I was perfectly willing and ready to kill a man once. It was self-defense, but that really doesn’t matter: the capacity to turn off empathy and seek another person’s death is there.

    This. I failed to fight back sufficiently in self-defense when my partner almost killed me; afterwards, I mentally prepared myself to kill if it ever happened again. I never had to learn if I actually could; fortunately, I suppose. But it’s not some mysterious inborn quality that someone either has or doesn’t.

  140. Tethys says

    kristinc

    What I’m wondering is, what do you do for a bra under it? Does it need a strapless, or just a bra in a coordinating fabric with straps that aren’t too utilitarian?

    Bra with clear plastic straps?

    Or you could line the sheer with an opaque flesh tone fabric if you have the sewing skills. Those fabrics are tricky to work.

  141. says

    Pteryxx:

    But it’s not some mysterious inborn quality that someone either has or doesn’t.

    No, it isn’t. After my rape and the attempt to murder me, first thing I did after I got out of the hospital and could actually move again, was to contact gang members I knew who could put me in touch with someone who could teach me to fight – dirty.

    I trained like hell. I haven’t been out without a weapon in 40 years. My weapons aren’t obvious though and it would be unlikely they would be found or taken off of me. If I was attacked again, I’d kill. In a heartbeat, given the opportunity.

  142. Tethys says

    Jadehawk

    OTOH, my search-terms are largely some asshole obsessing about my “willy” and fantasizing about my death

    Oh…ewww, yuck, gross,creepy, eww, eww, ewww!

    I suppose we could turn it into a meme.

    Death-willy creepers?

  143. says

    (I know what he meant, I just strongly disagree. I hate wealth-as-a-virtue batman. Aren’t we supposed to hate bruce wayne when he is acting like a dipshit in front of the press to cover his secret identity? ugh.)

    Yes we are. It’s the cover.

    BB especially went to effort to humanize Bruce away from the hyper rich. His father is shown to be a Doctor and works in a hospital despite wealth out of altruism. His family had a strong sense of social justice and trying to solve crime via economic revitalization. He spends the first part of his journey homeless and poor, having to steal himself and learning first hand the economic causes of crime and violence and in the end rejects the rather draconian vengeance view of justice that criminality is to be punished and exterminated. The Gotham of Nolan’s movies is shown to be one where crime flourishes due to the apathy and exploitation of the wealthy. It’s corporate and criminal greed and callousness that Ras Al Ghoul exploits to destroy the city, (The mafia’s control and Wayne Tech’s irresponsible business practices and war profiteering).

    It’s why a lot of modern writers want to go out of their way to show Wayne using his money to help people in both persona. Dini in both the comic and BTAS showed Bruce as taking an active interest in reforming Arkham and in trying to actually rehabilitate the people he imprisons. One episode of BTAS was entirely around this. The first Robin left after a situation where Batman captured a petty criminal who was acting out of desperation for his family, which Robin saw as heartless. He later learned that after Batman captured him Bruce Wayne gave the man a job.

    The simplistic Good/evil, criminal/citizen, mooch/galt is why I think conservative writers will have a fundamental problem with proper characterization and motivation.

  144. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Just a little note for those who are not aware of what the disabled can go through in a day

    I got home before 11:00 am (had a working lunch with the department at work afterwards), and got the Redhead “dewatered”, and made her lunch, and packed the lunch in a cooler for her to get at her convenience, along with auxiliary materials. Then, about 12:45 pm, she tries to get out to eat said lunch. In backing up, gets entangled in extraneous footwear (been trying various footwear for the night “dewaterings”), and got she a wheel chair handle caught on the corner the portable shelves, which threatened to dump a microwave oven. That made her stuck without phone (and I’m unavailable due to the departmental luncheon) for about 2 hours, until I came home about 1:50 pm to rescue her.

    Doesn’t seem like much, be she was unable to control her environment for a couple of hours. Very frustrating.

  146. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    Oh ouch.

    Nerd, hope pullets go well.

    Kristin, sorry, never understood fashion.

    Caine, ptxx, yes. It’s easy to say “It’s not me who can do this”. We all are capable of killing, we just need an excuse for it.

  147. Akira MacKenzie says

    Alright ladies of the Pullet Patrol™, here’s some feed of the Redhead Eating a Popeye’s Chicken dinner.

    Sorry, I can’t read or hear the word “Pullet” without thinking of this:

  148. says

    blockquote>Or you could line the sheer with an opaque flesh tone fabric if you have the sewing skills. Those fabrics are tricky to work.

    Hm, might be the most workable solution. Since the sheer swiss dot I have in mind is very thin, it probably wouldn’t be too difficult to just double it up with a suitable lining and sew as if it were one layer (with French seams and bias binding).

    I suspect the hardest thing about this plan would be finding the right shade of “flesh” lining, since I am pale and yellowy.

    Maybe finding a fabric that matches the background of my dress print would be a better bet.

  150. says

    ohfer … I don’t even have a clue how I managed to produce that mess.

    sorry.

    Or you could line the sheer with an opaque flesh tone fabric if you have the sewing skills. Those fabrics are tricky to work.

    Hm, might be the most workable solution. Since the sheer swiss dot I have in mind is very thin, it probably wouldn’t be too difficult to just double it up with a suitable lining and sew as if it were one layer (with French seams and bias binding).

    I suspect the hardest thing about this plan would be finding the right shade of “flesh” lining, since I am pale and yellowy.

    Maybe finding a fabric that matches the background of my dress print would be a better bet.

  152. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    but how very frustrating it must be for her and worrying for you.

    Definitely, but it does put emphasis on the need for a “radio phone holster” for her handset, so it can move with her as she moves. And the idea of cell phones still makes my knees itchy with her ‘tude’.

  154. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Ah PZ, first cyberpunk and now goth, are you trying to drown me in nostalgia?

    Mind you, despite owning Bauhaus’ “Bella Legosi’s Dead” on blue vinyl I wasn’t really a goth. Never bothered to dye my hair for instance.

    When I think of goth and the catharsis of surrendering to the knowledge that everything and everyone we love will end I think of Anne Clark’s “Our Darkness” and that particular version too. That unrelenting, hard edged rhythm spoke to my experience of urban angst, the lyrics mirrored the voice of my depression. “Doubting all the time/ Fearing all the time/ That like these urban nightmares, we’ll blacken each other’s skies.” And at that point I’d lose my shit completely. I’m the sort of person from whom nicknames slide off into an embarrassing puddle at the feet of the giver. Good thing too, ’cause after seeing me explode into a whirling blur of gawky elbows and knees during the demented sax solo in that song, one friend tried to saddle me with Moulinex.

  155. ImaginesABeach says

    Nerd, people make jokes about “i’ve fallen and i can’t get up” but those systems are not expensive and can be set up to call you and can make a huge difference in the ability of people to be safe at home.

  156. John Morales says

    FWIW, my mom is physically debilitated, and wears a cellphone as if it were a necklace; it’s pre-programmed with various emergency numbers. She has actually employed it once, successfully.

    (They’re really small these days)

  157. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Nerd, people make jokes about “i’ve fallen and i can’t get up” but those systems are not expensive and can be set up to call you and can make a huge difference in the ability of people to be safe at home.

    The Redhead puts those systems in the same category as a cell phone. Almost over her dead body. My father has one (rings the senior facility he lives in first), so I know they can be useful, as he has fallen a couple of times in the last year.

  158. left0ver1under says

    One of the most common misconceptions about goths is a preoccupation and desire for suicide and self harm. A few years ago, the British Medical Journal published a study on goths and suicide attempts.

    http://www.bmj.com/content/332/7549/1058

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Parenting/3098

    Goth Youths Prone to Suicide Attempts and Self-Mutilation
    By Jeff Minerd, MedPage Today Staff Writer
    Published: April 14, 2006

    “Although only fairly small numbers of young people identify as belonging to the Goth subculture, rates of self-harm and attempted suicide are very high among this group,” Young (*) said.

    “One common suggestion is they may be copying subcultural icons or peers,” he said. “But since our study found that more reported self-harm before, rather than after, becoming a Goth, this suggests that young people with a tendency to self-harm are attracted to the Goth subculture.”

    “Rather than posing a risk, it’s also possible that by belonging to this subculture young people are gaining valuable social and emotional support from their peers,” he suggested.

    * – Robert Young, a research associate at the University of Glasgow

    Just look at gay people, kids who are bullied, or any other group. When they find a sense of community, acceptance and equality, they tend to be happier as well. Inclusion leads to good mental health, isolation damages it.

  160. Pteryxx says

    For y’all’s entertainment: fractally wrong science from some dude selling a book.

    http://www.thefinaltheory.com/scienceflaws.html

    Q: How can a fridge magnet cling against gravity endlessly without draining a power source?

    A: It can’t … fridge magnets are impossible according to today’s science.

    It certainly takes tremendous energy to cling to the side of a cliff, supporting our own weight against gravity, and before long we would tire and fall. Yet a fridge magnet clings endlessly to the fridge by magnetic energy. And, as both our science and our experience tell us, such an expenditure of energy requires that a power source be drawn upon to support such effort. Yet a permanent magnet not only maintains its strength indefinitely (no theory or textbook shows the power drain characteristics of a permanent magnet as it clings against the pull of gravity), but there isn’t even a power source in sight!

    —

    Q: How do heavy objects rest on a table without its molecules giving way, collapsing the table?

    A: Science has no viable explanation for this today

    This mystery is similar to the mystery of the fridge magnet. Atomic bonds are said to result from electromagnetic energy attracting and holding atoms together. Yet, there is no denying that tremendous ongoing energy expenditure is required to hold the structure of a table together under the weight of a heavy object. Where does this energy come from? How quickly does this subatomic power source drain as it expends all this energy? Today’s science has no explanation for this everyday occurrence, so such questions are never discussed.

    —

    Q: How can freezing water expand, even bursting metal pipes, with no energy input to explain it?

    Energy continually drains from the water as it cools toward freezing. So, how does the water suddenly expand with such force from within that it easily bursts metal pipes? No solid answers to this mystery can be found from today’s scientists — only confused hand-waving diversionary responses that still do not answer this clear energy balance violation.

    → This mystery is solved in Chapter 4 via the new atomic and subatomic principles.

    —

    Q: Why is Einstein’s Special Relativity Theory so bizarre? Is our universe really that strange?

    A: Einstein’s Special Relativity Theory is all a mistake.

    Not only can clear errors be found in all supporting experiments and thought experiments, but even Einstein’s own mathematical support for his theory has clear fatal errors.

    One of the flaws is so striking that two key lines were omitted from Einstein’s published Special Relativity derivation found in his own book, Relativity: The Special and General Theory, published in 1961. A closer look at this derivation shows a large leap of logic that cannot be properly followed unless several missing lines are filled in. There is only one mathematically viable way to fill in these missing lines, which is shown below in simplified form:

    Line 1: x = a + b — note: speed-of-light term, c, has dropped out entirely by this point
    Line 2: x = a + b * (c2/ c2) — the undefined symbol, c, is artificially re-introduced
    Now, let the symbol y stand for the expression (b * c2)
    Line 3: x = a + y / c2 — the symbol, c, is kept from cancelling by hiding it within y in the numerator

    The two missing lines, now added above as lines 1 & 2, show that the speed-of-light term drops out of the derivation entirely and should never have appeared in the final equations. The above improper mathematical operations are the only way to add it back in, yet do not actually add the speed of light back at all, but only the meaningless letter C from the alphabet. Any letter from A to Z could have been chosen, showing how meaningless and arbitrary it was to choose the letter C, which was used to represent the speed of light earlier in the derivation before it dropped out completely.

    Endless fun for science SIWOTI! (Note: Not literally endless.)

  161. cicely says

    Minorly Threadrupt.
    –
    *hugs* for Josh; I’m glad your friend is okay. Scariness.
    –
    kristinc that’s very pretty top. Maybe something black with satiny spaghetti straps?
    –

    And I really, really wish we could bring back “werman” for the male of the species, but I do realise that train has long since sailed.

    I read that as “wereman”. Intriguing D&D possibilities….
    –

    Nerd, yikes. I’m glad the Redhead was okay, but how very frustrating it must be for her and worrying for you.

    This here, what Caine said.
    –

  162. says

    I read that as “wereman”

    yes, that’s where it comes from.

    werewolf

    late O.E. werewulf “person with the power to turn into a wolf,” from wer “man” + wulf (see wolf; also see here for a short discussion of the mythology). The first element probably is from PIE *uiHro “freeman” (cf. Skt. vira-, Lith. vyras, L. vir, O.Ir. fer, Goth. wair). Cf. M.Du. weerwolf, O.H.G. werwolf, Swed. varulf. In the ancient Persian calendar, the eighth month (October-November) was Varkazana-, lit. “(Month of the) Wolf-Men.”

  163. ibyea says

    @Pteryxx
    That whole thing is just a major WTF for me. He/she must have skipped the class in which Newton’s second law was taught.

  164. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Well, that was wretched.
    The MarkWatches blog has run into Spuffy disaster. Caution: Mark and his mods are doing their best, but there is all kinds of fucked up bullshit in that comments section. I read every single goddamn comment. On the bright side, it’s nice to be reminded that it’s not just FTB – other sites put up with the same tired, sickening bullshit. On the other hand, it’s horrible to be reminded that it’s not just FTB…

  166. John Morales says

    Cipher, “Spuffy”.

    Wow, that’s a nice one!

    (Without loking Spike + Buffy, right?)

    —

    Yeah, my wife and I were amused at that (rather kinky) relationship.

  169. cicely says

    John Morales,

    You are wrong! I am familiar with (well, not familiar familiar, if you know what I mean, *winkwink*) the wolfwere and the the jackalwere, and more informally with the hyenawere. The track my mind went on was:
    1) A quasi-lycanthropic disease in which a woman, at the full moon, transforms into a man.
    2) Likewise, but in which some demi-human involuntarily transforms into a human, with relevant changes to racial stats and abilities.
    3) Both of the above, at the same time! Wheeeee!

    Neener!
    :)
    –

  172. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    It’s like, here’s an interesting, squicky, emotionally complex plotline dealing with abuse and consent and self-destruction. And here are a group of feminists with varying degrees of life experience in the matter, eager to think about it and talk about it and try to get at its complexities. Here are a group of clueless people who need Feminism 101, and who are just baffled at everything that’s going on. And over here are a group of assholes who feel entitled to shit all over that discussion with victim-blaming, attempts to use other people’s abuse experiences to invalidate their point, and rape threats, creating such a horrifying clusterfuck that nobody else is able to feel safe to discuss anything at all.
    Awesome.

  175. says

    Argh, does anyone else’s immune system take a hit when the outdoor temperature swings wildly? I was already vulnerable because of sleep deprivation and three separate but minor bouts of heat exhaustion in the past week. But then my metabolism started to get used to the weather. When the temperature resettled in the 70s Fahrenheit during the day (with low humidity) and began to drop into the 50s F at night, I began to shiver… and yesterday I woke up with the sore throat that’s been going around, and I spent at least half the day sleeping.

    I’m up right now because I crashed out at 7 p.m. I am going to feed the cat, then go back to sleep.

  178. Tethys says

    btw, does anyone know if there’s a time-limit on how late after a tooth-extraction one can still get an implant?

    There is no time limit. I’ve done full mouth reconstructions on people after they’ve worn dentures for years.*

    The limiting factors are bone density, metals bio-compatibility, and money.

    I would recommend getting something to maintain the space.
    Talk to your dentist about the various options. Sadly, a temporary solution will still be expensive. It may be more cost effective in the long term to work out a payment plan and go for the implant and crown asap.

    *I am a dental ceramist, though I don’t work in the field anymore.

  179. Dhorvath, OM says

    Jadehawk, I don’t know, but my dentist assured me on last pull that I had time to work towards that solution.

  180. says

    Talk to your dentist about the various options.

    there’s no such thing as “my dentist”. the dentist I went to for the extraction was only able to squeeze me in on a “acute pain management” exception to their “no new patients” rule. And in any case, this being the poor people’s dentist, they don’t do bridges and implants. IOW, I can’t get a place-holder.

  181. Dhorvath, OM says

    Jadehawk, the term”My dentist” refers to the dentist who pulled my molar, not a regular person who I visit.

  182. says

    glad to know that there aren’t any inherent time-limits. still, I’m worried that the teeth are going to start doing weird shit to close the gap before I have enough & before I figure out where I could get the implant done, anyway. So, still wondering how much time I’d realistically have until the gap starts causing that kind of problems?

  185. says

    ah, ok. well, in my case the guy who pulled the tooth can’t advise me on anything unless I’m in excruciating pain. because I’m not actually one of their patients and they’re not accepting new ones.

    *sigh*

    I want go go back home to civilization *homesick*

  186. Tethys says

    Jadehawk

    I wish here would go back to being civilized.

    Tooth movement is highly individual. Lateral movement with-in the jaw happens continually. Hyper-eruption of the opposing tooth is what you want to prevent. It depends on which tooth too. Anterior teeth (canine to canine) are more prone to it than posteriors.

    You can also have a single prosthetic tooth with clasps made.
    They can be cemented into place with little to no preparation to the adjacent teeth. Done properly, it would get you by until you can get back home.

    All the best tools and porcelains come from Germany anyway.

  187. Nightjar says

    Energy continually drains from the water as it cools toward freezing. So, how does the water suddenly expand with such force from within that it easily bursts metal pipes? No solid answers to this mystery can be found from today’s scientists — only confused hand-waving diversionary responses that still do not answer this clear energy balance violation.

    That’s possibly the funniest thing I’ve read all week. Too bad it was apparently not meant to be funny.

    He/she must have skipped the class in which Newton’s second law was taught.

    And thermodynamics.

    ***

    *sigh*

    I want go go back home to civilization *homesick*

    *carefully touches with tongue the place where a wisdom tooth used to be before Monday, switches to the one whose extraction got scheduled for October*

    *is sympathetic*

  188. carlie says

    *sigh*

    Cat’s chasing a mouse around again. I hope it’s the same one. She was after it last night for awhile, caught it TWICE, and it got away both times. She appears to be hunting it again. She’s good with reflexes and following in the open, but once it goes under something, it’s like “whoa, where’d it go?” and she loses all ability to track it.

  189. says

    Having read some of Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States, I question whether “here” was ever “civilized.”

    Anyway, because I have TWS, I surf over to DailyKos, and what do I find but a diary by an atheist married to a U/U’er. He’s trying to convince himself that “the human mind naturally orients itself toward religion.”

    Great first comment:

    On what, exactly, do you base this assertion [—] Your own experience?
    My husband and I went to a UU church just a few months ago, looking for a social-justice oriented community. Within five minutes of walking into the place we knew we’d made a mistake and stayed put through the service out of politeness.

    Far, far too churchy for either one of us; we don’t need it, weren’t seeking it and were repelled by it when we found it.

    Should I therefore conclude that all of humanity is wired to avoid religion?

    On the other hand, I did find this over at dK:

    Make a Chick-Fil-A Fried Chicken Sandwich at home with this copycat recipe. Less sugar, less salt, and less funding for anti-human-equality organizations.

  191. says

    @kristinc

    Any fashionistas here?

    I have my eye on two fabrics that I could use to make a dress with a sheer yoke, somewhat similar to this effect.

    O,o nice. I love that look.

    What I’m wondering is, what do you do for a bra under it? Does it need a strapless, or just a bra in a coordinating fabric with straps that aren’t too utilitarian?

    I had a dress in mind that I could throw on for class or whatever, so a strapless bra seems a bit overkill, and going braless is not an option for me (and a camisole is a) too warm under a spring/summer dress and b) not enough support anyway).

    And strapless, I find, isn’t very comfortable anyway …

    Thin black straps? Or nude or transparent?

  193. randay says

    Don’t you watch the tv series NCIS? One of the chief characters is Abby, a Goth forensic scientist and computer expert. I’ve heard that she is the most popular in the show.

  194. Vilém Saptar says

    Hi TET!
     
    Off the top of my head,

    commiserations to JAL and mouthyb about your situations. Hope things get better soon.
     
    Good to hear no friends of Josh, or anyone else, were hurt in y’day’s shooting. But sorry about those who were.
     
    Going to catch up now…

  195. Vilém Saptar says

    And also commiserations to Jadehawk on the tooth extraction and crutches…

  196. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Hi Audley! I saw it Thursday night.

    Shall we squee?

    *squees*

  197. rowanvt says

    It looks like the chance a fellow tech and I took on the 6 week old parvo puppy is going to pay off. There’s been no vomiting since yesterday morning and no diarrhea. A single day of medications and she’s up and bouncing and playing and demanding more food than I’m allowing her.

    It’s so nice to have one of these guys actually make it on conservative care but sucky we have to see parvo pups this young at all.

    Stupid owners. -_-

  198. says

    Esteleth:

    Shall we squee?

    1) Super jealous that you saw a midnight showing– Mr Darkheart couldn’t take Friday off, so we had to push our plans back a day.
    :(

    2) SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

    3) I’m already planning to see it again. :p

  200. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Audley:

    I’m going to go see it again tomorrow.

    Vs gur zhfuebbz pybhq bs gur ahpyrne rkcybfvba vf gung ivfvoyr, naq gur jvaq jnf oybjvat vaynaq, gura Tbgunz vf tbvat gb unir n UHTR snyybhg vffhr.

    Ohg gura, gurl qvq qb n ybg bs svffvba/shfvba unaqjnivat.

    Qvq lbh frr gur Ebova eriryngvba pbzvat?

  201. Ogvorbis says

    Секој пат кога ќе го видам гниење тринаесет кодирање морам да се борат со потребата да се отстрани моите очила и избришете ги со мека крпа.

  202. Ogvorbis says

    And this definitely comes under the heading of “You Can’t Make This Shit Up!”

    I wonder if xe is a researcher? or trying to get laaaaaaid? or a wildlife photographer? or trying to set the goats on fire?

  203. says

    Esteleth:

    I’m going to go see it again tomorrow.

    I wish I could, but almost all of the theaters around here are sold out for this weekend. It was a stroke of luck that I was able to get tickets for a showing last night.

    I’ll wait until next weekend to see it again, I think.

    Snyybhg? Cssg. Gung’f ybat grez rssrpgf– jub pnerf nobhg yrhxrzvn naq ovegu qrsrpgf?

    Fcrnxvat bs gur ceboyrzf jvgu gur “ngbz obzo”, ubj va gur uryy qvq Gur Ong fheivir jryy rabhtu sbe Yhpvhf Sbk gb gel gb svk gur nhgbcvybg? (Vg vf cbffvoyr V zvffrq fbzrguvat ‘pbf gur wnpxnff grrantref shegure qbja gur ebj xrcg trggvat hc naq jnyxvat va sebag bs hf sbe ab tbqqnzarq ernfba, evtug hc hagvy gur raq bs gur zbivr.)

    V unq fcrphyngrq gung Wbfrcu Tbeqba-Yrivgg jnf tbvat gb or chfurq va gur Avtugjvat qverpgvba, fb xvaq bs? V thrff? V qb yvxr gung Puevfgbcure Abyna unq fnvq gung ur jnf arire tbvat gb unir Ebova nf n punenpgre naq gura farnxrq gung va. :)

  204. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Извините! Гниль тринадцать кодирования, однако, лучший способ не испортить шоу.
    *очищает очки.*

  205. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Audley:

    Gur Ong jnf qrcvpgrq nf uvqvat ba n ebbs jvgu n pnzb pbire bire vg. N engure IVFVOYR pnzb pbire ng gung.

    Ohg V thrff vg jbhyq gnxr fbzrbar sylvat bire gb frr vg?

    V jnf nyfb zber guna n yvggyr fxrrirq bhg ol gur vzcyvpngvba gung bapr Onar rg ny jrer qrsrngrq, gura ubbenl Tbgunz jbhyq or bxnl ntnva. Zzuzz. EVTUGB.

  206. Ogvorbis says

    Македонски, а не руски јазик. Слични, иако, јас ви даде тоа.

    Јас разбирам таа цел. Мојот ум, мали и бескорисни како што е, само оди чудни места со неа. Гледам она што изгледа како мафијаш тип мојата прва реакција е да се мисли дека има нешто во ред со моето око носат.

  207. says

    E,

    V jnf nyfb zber guna n yvggyr fxrrirq bhg ol gur vzcyvpngvba gung bapr Onar rg ny jrer qrsrngrq, gura ubbenl Tbgunz jbhyq or bxnl ntnva. Zzuzz. EVTUGB.

    Jryy, gur one jnf frg njshyyl ybj, rira vs gur zbo ceboyrz unq orra pyrnarq hc. Tbgunz vf xvaq bs n cvg, vf jung V’z fnlva’.

  210. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Oggie:

    Фер доволно. Сето тоа е кирилица!

    И јас лесно ќе признаам дека јас сум користење на софтвер за превод на интернет.

    Audley:

    Jryy, gur one jnf frg njshyyl ybj, rira vs gur zbo ceboyrz unq orra pyrnarq hc. Tbgunz vf xvaq bs n cvg, vf jung V’z fnlva’.

    Gehr rabhtu. Fgvyy. Gur bpphcngvba crevbq (rvtugl-fbzr qnlf?) jnf fubja nf onfvpnyyl erzbivat nyy gur evpu naq cbjreshy. Bxnl. Fb…?

    V nyfb jnf n ovg fxrcgvpny gung gur pbcf haqretebhaq jbhyq or svar. Naq fgvyy funira! Naq abg univat sebmra!

  213. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Oggie:

    Јас се судрат вашата тупаница со рудникот.

  214. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Audley:

    Jvyyvat fhfcrafvba bs qvforyvrs, zl qrne.

    Onu. *qvfzvffvir trfgher* Gurer vf jvyyvat fhfcrafvba bs qvforyvrs, naq gurer vf BZTJGSOOD.

  215. Ogvorbis says

    Ах. Првите се судрат социјалистички! Ние злото се!

  216. Ogvorbis says

    [meta]

    Someone who is unfamiliar with this place could be quite confuzzled by now.

    [/meta]

  219. Owen says

    Google translate understands Macedonian – thank goodness – but I was rather hoping it would also grok rot-13. Sadly, it thinks it’s Icelandic…

  220. Ogvorbis says

    Ó. Fjandinn. Íslensku? Jæja, get ég séð það. Íslenska hefur hellingur og hellingur af auka undarlegt greinarmerki og bréf áhrifahnappalista.

  221. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Google translate has gotten a shitload better since last I used it.

    All your private/public message are MINE.

  222. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Google translate has gotten a shitload better since last I used it.

    Maybe, but, keep in mind that it’s going to work best when the author already used Google Translate to convert their words from English.

  223. says

    Did I ever mention that Amanda Marcotte is fucking awesome?

    What drives political polarization more than anything else is the continued assertion that all statements are created equally, and are therefore equally polarizing. If one side (say, a hypothetical political party called the GOB) routinely launches insane accusations (say, that a president is hiding his birth certificate or he’s besties with Terrorist Jim over there), and the other makes hyperbolic but supportable statements in response, equating the former to the latter empowers the former. If anything you do is equally as bad as what the other guy does, the side less committed to any semblance of propriety or restraint is constantly justified in its actions by the very existence of the other side.

    Or a hypothetical blog community like the Slimepit…

  224. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I love the idea that Icelandic is really just rot13.

  225. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    I needed to translate some Portuguese this week, and google did a fair enough job. At least the translation made sense in the context in which the document was to be used.

  227. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Oh. Also, I have been working on a research proposal with a Brazilian collab, and I find that his translation of my own words back translates in Google more-or-less acceptably. Maybe it’s just Portuguese. I want to know more about how that works, anyhoo. I remember a few years ago working on some German docs, in which my own shitty German seemed to be better than Google’s. Not so just recently.

  228. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    chigau, これは、政治局の侵入です。 あなたのカレンダーを確認してください。

  229. julietdefarge says

    What, no cape?

    Anyway, don’t forget to learn to dance like Zoe Jakes or Rachel Brice. On YouTube, of course.

  230. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Heh, Chigau. I don’t know who it is a TZT!

    F’ing Google translate!

  232. chigau (女性) says

    ॐ
    カレンダー？
    何のカレンダー？
    なぜ私は知らされませんでしたか？
    (I wish I could get past です/〜ます in Japanese)
    —
    Antiochus Epiphanes
    I didn’t use google translate for
    あなたたちは、これはTZTだと思いますか？
    just my own limited ability
    I’m right and google translate is wrong.
    and that’s the truth.
    so there.

  233. Beatrice says

    Ah, so The Dark Knight Rises is worth watching. Good to know, I was planning it as a birthday treat in a couple of weeks.

  234. says

    Beatrice:

    Ah, so The Dark Knight Rises is worth watching.

    Holy shit, yes. The biggest argument that Mr Darkheart and I have had so far is whether or not it’s the best of the series (I say no, he disagrees because he likes that it’s pretty much an epic).

  236. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Jesus tapdancing Christ!

    On the one hand, I’m glad to see the woman-hating blather of right-wing Christians get smacked down in Christo-speak. On the other, I really wish the author of the blogpost could see that these nutjobs hate her, think she is not a person, and see the blatant woman-hating of the Bible as a feature, not a bug.

  238. Beatrice says

    Audley,

    Great, I’m already looking forward to it.

    —-

    Caine,

    Heh, I’ve just started reading Witches Abroad.

  239. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Chigau: I didn’t mean to imply that you used translate, but that I did. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    In reality, you* represent some form of higher and quite alien intelligence to me. I understand too little of your commentary given the level of entertainment that it affords me. Which is to say that I don’t always get it, but I want to.

    I would not impugn you thus.

    *theophontes, too. And some others.

  240. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    And so, it’s off to the HomeDepot for me. I need to figure this drywalling thing out.

  241. says

    Beatrice:

    Heh, I’ve just started reading Witches Abroad.

    One of my favourites, I’ve read it more than once. I don’t think anyone will end up saddled with Lillith or Lily, but you never know. :D

  244. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    chigau, 知りません。私は1つを持っていないので、私は、あなたがカレンダーを持っていたと仮定。私はあなたが私よりも上位ランクと思いました。

  246. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    You mean, when she’s not appropriating the work of women of color,

    Heh. Weren’t you just praising Tim Wise the other day?

    or whining about hipsters being oppressed?

    Goddamn you’re such a fucking liar, Daisy.

  248. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Caine: Hardibacker or DensShield for a shower enclosure*? I am stymied. Also, some people like green board for bathrooms, and some people don’t.

    *I think cement board is too heavy since I’m doing this alone.

  249. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Can I briefly express confusion over a 32 oz steak?

    Oh, and it costs $46. Comes with a side of market veggies.

  250. says

    /rolls eyes

    Commencing on another coke bender, are we, Strange Git? (Yeah, cue cries of “ableism” now. It’s not OK to trigger poor SGBM but it’s OK for him to trigger other people.) Because I’m betting that’s why you can suppress your assholery for only a few weeks before you start policing other people’s comments like the wannabe Red Army soldier you are.

    Into my killfile with you, fuckstain. I have better things to do than engage with you.

  251. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Commencing on another coke bender, are we, Strange Git? (Yeah, cue cries of “ableism” now.

    This is actually another great example of your dishonesty.

    When have I ever complained in any way about people commenting on my drug use?

    Never.

    (For the record, the answer to your question is no.)

    Because I’m betting that’s why you can suppress your assholery for only a few weeks

    Please. I never suppress it. You only notice when it’s aimed at you and your friends.

    It’s not OK to trigger poor SGBM but it’s OK for him to trigger other people.

    Haha. What?

    Am I triggering you by calling you a liar?

    You have a particular habit of observing people complaining about something that bothers them —

    and yes, it’s obvious that hipster hatin’ bothers Marcotte, and yes, I think it’s as comical as you do

    — but you lie by claiming that they’re calling it oppression.

  253. says

    AE:

    Hardibacker or DensShield for a shower enclosure*?

    Ohhhh, a shower enclosure! Those can be tricky. DensShield needs to have every seam and every penetration (nail holes, etc.) seriously sealed or you’re looking at failure. I’d go with Hardibacker, however the debate between those two goes on and on forever…

    Do a search using the bit I quoted (minus the asterisk) and you’ll come across many a forum debate between the two. Helpful, eh?

  254. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    *pretends she has any idea what Caine is talking about*

  255. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    What even?
    …
    What is even going on?
    —
    *coughs*
    Soooo… I’m sitting here trying my best not to charge into the nightmare that is Mark’s comment section with my gas mask, sniny fangs, and polka-dot spiked waders. Trying to stick to messages of support for the people who are doing good work in there and getting a load of shit for it. As I was telling my friend, he and his mods are getting a bunch of shit for being “mean” for stuff as tame as telling people to fuck off and stop talking, so I wouldn’t be super helpful.
    —
    My mommy might make delicious mint brownies today!

  258. says

    Or excited, even. I think I needs more tea…

    Ixchel, rather than yelling “liar!” anytime someone writes something you disagree with, you could go the somewhat more tedious route of explaining your disagreement first, rather than after the “liar!”. Just a thought.

  259. Patricia, OM says

    I just wasted $6.50 to see Ice Age. Has anyone seen the latest Spiderman?

  261. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Ixchel, rather than yelling “liar!” anytime someone writes something you disagree with, you could go the somewhat more tedious route of explaining your disagreement first, rather than after the “liar!”. Just a thought.

    When it’s complex, yes, that’s a good idea.

    But if someone says “X said Y” and someone else responds “liar” then the meaning is obvious: “it is a lie that ‘X said Y'”.

  262. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I’m puzzled by the existence of the latest Spiderman. Didn’t people really like the other ones? They were just five years ago! Why do we need a new one?

  263. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    What I left for WMDKitty over at Ophelia’s (after I got my violent fantasies under control):

    You are a self-centered fucking asshole, WMDKitty, and your position on this is morally monstrous. Who gives one FLYING FUCK what you want in bed? That has nothing to do with whether baby boys get their dicks chopped.

    What a disgusting, egotistical, inhumane, heterosexist bag of shit you dropped here. Don’t tell anyone you “disagree”. You don’t get to “disagree” about someone else’s bodily integrity, and you don’t get to “disagree” about what is and is not mutilation unless it’s YOUR OWN BODY.

    Gack, you’re putrid.

  265. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    You really don’t want to know what I’d like to do. I’m actually glad I’m not having this conversation in person because. . . whoo boy. Not good.

  267. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Cipher:
    Re: The Amazing Spider-man-
    The studio wasn’t happy with the performance of the third movie and wanted another. I suspect they wanted a new take on the series and simply agreed to a reboot though it wasn’t billed as such in the lead up to the new movie. I also think they realized Kirsten Dunst and Tobey Maguire were getting too old to play the lead characters.

  268. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Anyone know how to make the cheesy goodness sauce that rests atop enchiladas? I have some ground chicken and garlic/herb tortillas wraps (made a delicious pizza with that last night) and want to try that out.

  269. says

    Josh:

    You really don’t want to know what I’d like to do. I’m actually glad I’m not having this conversation in person because. . . whoo boy. Not good.

    I know, I know. We’ve had other idiots here who have used the “personal preference sexually” excuse and of all the stupid, infuriating excuses, that one bothers me the most. Leaving aside the fact that no one should ever make a body changing decision for someone else, so what if you prefer circumcised sexually? You planning on living forever and fucking every single male ever born, including those related to you? Huh?

    It’s very hard for me to believe anyone could bring that up as a legitimate argument.

  271. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Patricia:
    I was prepared to dislike the Spiderman movie bc I liked the Sam Raimi ones. It turned out that I quite liked it. I even saw it in 3D which is a rarity for me as I detest the money grubbing exercise of ‘throw objects at the audience and inflate the ticket prices’.
    The film has a darker tone to it but does capture more of the science background of Peter parker quite well.

  273. says

    @Josh

    Ah, the “chopped looks better” defence?

    I hate it. I just argued with someone about that on a forum where this topic came up. It is such a ridiculous argument. Firstly, what is considered right looking is dependant on what everyone else’s look like. Secondly, what someone else like to see someone having is non of their fucking business. Period.

  274. Ogvorbis says

    Can I briefly express confusion over a 32 oz steak?

    </blockquote
    If you are feeding five people, that is a very decent sized steak. If it has a bone in, maybe 4 people.

    They were just five years ago! Why do we need a new one?

    I think five years is one cultural generation, so rebooting an icon every five years would make sense.

    Anyone know how to make the cheesy goodness sauce that rests atop enchiladas?

    I use canned or bottled green or red enchilada sauza (which, if it is a good brand, is usually as good as my own concoction but with far less effort). For the green stuff, I will cut it with about 1 part chicken broth (for a chicken, cheese and onion, or pork enchilada) to three parts bottled sauza so that, as the enchiladas bake, the sauza doesn’t solidify. For red enchilada sauza (pork or beef filling), I cut in 1 part dark beer or beef broth to 3 parts sauza for the same reason. Then, when the enchiladas are almost ready, I sprinkle on handfuls of cheddar, jack, muenster or mozzarella shreds.

    I have also had good luck cutting the green enchilada sauza with a little sour cream and some cheddar or jack cheese instead of the broth. As it cooks, it becomes kinda creamy and cheesey even with very little actual cheese.

  275. Beatrice says

    That many legged thing that Josh said he found in his house… Eeee. I just saw it, or at least something very similar (it was moving fast, I didn’t exactly take a long look before grabbing something to smash it with) on the wall. There is now a big (big!) stain on the wall above my computer. Big.

    Do they come in too many or there could have been just that one? Josh, you apparently have the experience with that kind of thing.

  276. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Ogvorbis:
    Thank you for the tips.
    I didn’t know certain sauces went with certain dishes. I wonder why green sauce isn’t found on beef enchiladas or red sauce on chicken…

  278. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Beatrice:
    That many legged thing is a great fondue option :-)
    J/k

  279. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Caine: Merci beaucoups*.

    DensShield may be beyond my meager abilities. I’m leaning Hardibacker.

    *this is how my autocorrect function likes to spell this: Merck beau pups.

  280. Beatrice says

    Did I mention that I don’t like bugs in my territory? They freak me out.

    I once spent most of a night awake walking around the room , keeping eye on a big spider. I was too afraid to try and catch it, but I didn’t want to wake grandmother (I was around ten, I think). The only time I left the room was when I had driven myself to such panic that I had cramps and a rather urgent need to visit the toilet. I woke her up then, but still didn’t manage to fall asleep that night.

    I’ve made my piece with spiders, but most other things I still can’t stand. Freaking out now.

  281. Ogvorbis says

    I wonder why green sauce isn’t found on beef enchiladas or red sauce on chicken…

    It certainly can be, no reason why not except [Dah-dah-dah-dummmmmmmmmm!] Tradition! Light coloured meats and light coloured sauces, dark coloured meats and dark coloured sauces — tends to bring the visual colour palette together prior to the colour going on your palatte.

  282. Beatrice says

    That many legged thing is a great fondue option :-)

    This joke is wasted on me, I don’t get it :(

  284. hotshoe says

    Ogvorbis:
    Thank you for the tips.
    I didn’t know certain sauces went with certain dishes. I wonder why green sauce isn’t found on beef enchiladas or red sauce on chicken…

    Red sauce is fine on chicken. And a lot of Mex-American restaurants make red-sauce chicken enchiladas, or flautas, or mojado burritos w/ red sauce on the plate. etc … but since chicken has a milder flavor than beef or goat, chicken can let the flavor of green sauce shine through better. So it makes a nice change.

    the easy way to make chicken enchiladas w/ flour tortillas and bottled green salsa

  285. says

    I must admit I have never understood that sort of fear of tiny insects.

    Sure, I’m grossed out by large, hairy spiders. I usually kill those too. I was even further desensitised to large spiders when I lived in Australia though. Other type of bugs don’t bother me at all. Except those who’re annoying – like flies of course.

    But then, I’ve always been fascinated by nature. I wanted to become a biologist when I was a teenager. When I was a kid I often played with ants. I still enjoy studying insects while they crawl along my arm and hand.

    Oh, and only a few weeks ago I had a long snake crawling along my arm. Awesome!

  286. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Beatrice, I was trying to make with the funny. I need to work on my delivery.

  287. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Hotshoe, that recipe is awesome and that site seems to be as well. Merck beau phosphate.

  288. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Wow my phone somehow turned PIPE into PHOSPHATE. Sheesh.

  289. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    Wow my phone somehow turned PUPS into PHOSPHATE. Sheesh.

  292. Ogvorbis says

    Sure, I’m grossed out by large, hairy spiders.

    Large hairy spiders are good. They are big. They have a more difficult time hiding. They don’t hang upside down on ceilings.

    When I lived in Arizona, we waited, eagerly, for the two weeks when the female brown tarantulas were sexually receptive (damn, that sounds really kinky phrased that way) and the males all came out of hiding to go get their one chance a year at sex. We would catch one of the males, walk down to the visitor center at Grand Canyon, put the spider on our shoulder, or back, or head, or some other handy perch, and walk in. In anywhere from 15 seconds to 5 minutes, screams and the sounds of stampeding visitors would fill the lobby, followed very quickly by one of our dads charging out of his office to yell at us for disturbing the wildlife.

    I usually kill those too.

    Spiders are our friends. They eat bad bugs. There are only two in the US that can even inflict a fatal bite. Spiders are harmless.

    Unless, of course, you are in Australia where the spiders really are out to get you, in which case, swat away.

  293. Beatrice says

    I never get big scary spiders in this apartment and I’ve (mostly) gotten over the fear of those non-scary small ones. Besides, any bug they get rid of is a bug I won’t encounter.

  294. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    It’s that time of the year again:

    After Stalin was denounced, the Soviet leaders decide that they don’t want him buried in the USSR anymore, so they consider their options. One smart comrade comes up with the idea of exhuming him and burying him in another country. They ring around to the leaders of the other countries but don’t have any luck – nobody wants the old tyrant in their backyard, even if it is under the ground.

    At the end of a long day, another comrade comes up with an idea – “What about Israel – they seem to be becoming a military power, and maybe we can let them think we are their allies to weaken their partnership with the USA”. They all decide that’s a great idea and take it to the the President the next day.

    He looks at them with horror and yells “Israel – how could you suggest such a thing?!?! You KNOW that’s the country with the highest rate of people coming back from the dead!!!”

  295. says

    @Ogvorbis

    Hehe, fun story :P

    Spiders are our friends. They eat bad bugs. There are only two in the US that can even inflict a fatal bite. Spiders are harmless.

    Unless, of course, you are in Australia where the spiders really are out to get you, in which case, swat away.

    I know they keep bugs away, so I only kill them when they crawl into my bed. Which they frequently do when I’m staying at my parent’s house.

    I no longer live in Australia, I live in Norway now. Big spiders are very rare, but I have seen one of those large hunting spiders. They can be a couple of inches.

    @Beatrice

    I never get big scary spiders in this apartment and I’ve (mostly) gotten over the fear of those non-scary small ones. Besides, any bug they get rid of is a bug I won’t encounter.

    I live on fourth floor in a 10 year old apartment building built with concrete elements. There are no cracks anywhere. And the building is surrounded by asphalt.

    There simply are no bugs here. In my 2.5 years living in this apartment, I have killed one tiny spider that probably came in through the open window.

  296. Beatrice says

    Jadzia626,

    We have a garden outside the town and I’m pretty sure most bugs get inside via fruits and veggies we bring from there.

  297. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    I can take spiders.
    Roaches?
    Hell to the FUCK no.

  301. Walton says

    Argh. How did I do that? That’s what I get for posting in a hurry.

    Here’s what I actually intended to link to.

    (I had the Charmed video open in another tab, because someone on Facebook posted a song which I, to my shame, immediately recognized as the Charmed theme tune. But anyway.)

  302. Nightjar says

    Oh, Walton, thanks for fucking up that link. I was all ready to have my faith in humanity (what rests of it, anyway) destroyed again, but then I started giggling uncontrollably instead. I needed that.

    OK, now to follow the fixed link… *sigh*

  303. birgerjohansson says

    Norwegians will honour the memory of those killed at Utöya Sunday, on the first anniversary.
    — — — — — — — —
    (I am not posting the comment below at the assigned thread, since it does not refer directly to cause and effect of the recent spree killing in USA)
    -Before the recent atrocity is blamed on comics, I want to point out that the Joker character is only one of many nihilistic characters of popular culture, going back to Mr. Punch, and beyond.
    So a loon with a tenous hold on reality can find many, many characters to identify with before going off to kill -remember the “Rambo” killer in Britain a couple of decades ago.

    The fictional character that most closely resembles the spree killers would be a character invented by a member of the Italian “futurist” movement a century ago.
    (a member of the movement once said that the quintessential futurist act would be to randomly fire a revolver into a crowd of people)
    A curious offshoot of the futurist movement was a series of detective novels about a detective chasing a nihilistic villain called “Fantomas” across the world (the name has since been recycled for other villains). The real protagonist was actually Fantomas, showing that an unhealty fascination for people who are seemingly evil for evil’s own sake goes back long before the craze of serial-killer novels.
    — — — — —
    Back in 1986 or 87, Heavy Metal Magazine (the one for science fiction and fantasy) had a story with uncanny similarities to real life.
    A guy takes an obsessive interest in the chain saw film, turning up at late-night shows dressed as “leatherface” and letting his life fall apart around him. At one show he finally snaps, starts killing people in the audience, and is shot.
    (of course, this was when a lot of people still thought film and TV was directly responsible for violence. Since there have been no similar spree killings during films before today, it seems the human psyche actually is quite robust)

  304. Patricia, OM says

    Tony – Thanks for the reply on Spider Man. Will probably go see it today or tomorrow.

    Speaking of red sauces, had my first taste of red bell pepper sauce on some crab cakes during the kite festival, oh YUMM!

  305. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Reproductive-freedom-related resources?
    Right now we have that fact sheet by Jacqueline Homan, I’mNotSorry.net, this piece, and Anatomy of an Unsafe Abortion. I know of more but I haven’t managed to round them up mentally yet.

    Also, if anyone has the opportunity, baked goods and favorite beverages for mouthyb would not go amiss. Holy mother of fuck the amount of work she’s put in on that Wiki page has been unbelievable. I’m in awe.

  306. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I’m sorry – for the “this piece” link above, it’s the personal story PZ linked to a while ago called “The only good abortion is my abortion.” So, trigger warning applies, etc.

  307. carlie says

    I see the multiple reboots of Spiderman, Superman, the Avengers, what have you as no different than the dozens of versions of Sherlock Holmes and Hamlet and whatnot there are out there. Classic stories that are endlessly adaptable.

    Boy, WMDKitty is even worse than I thought. I weighed in too.

  308. says

    FossilFishy @ previous thread

    I’ve hurt myself enough to know the difference between “Ouch, this is going to be embarrassing.” and “Fuck, this is going to require professional attention.” I knew instantly that my immediate future would involve imposing on those whose skill set would be better used helping people who were in need through no fault of their own. The “I told you so.” brain region started to wind up its clockwork even before I’d untangle myself from the bike. That bastard who had the gall to be as fit as me, [rode] right by me as I lay there bleeding. He was moving fast enough that I don’t blame him for not seeing how bad I was, but I like to think were the situation reversed I would have gone back to see if he was alright. Of course, that might be my permanently damaged ego talking, it’s always been a little off what with all those knocks to the head.

    Of course he should have stopped! When someone goes down, you stop. When someone is pulled over, you stop. Even if the chances are 10:1 that they don’t need anything.

    And thanks for your thanks.

  309. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    How to have a good day:

    Meet up with friends you haven’t seen in a long time. Give gifts, some of which are backlogged from previous trips you’ve taken because your room is still a bit of a mess and you had to dig around. Add in some decent beer, Coke, iced tea/lemonade, and some great burgers. Stir in a helping of sitting on a bench at the beach and just talking and chilling, along with a heaping spoonful of puns, another of political talk, and another of making fun of Fundies. Sprinkle with some sunshine and more soda.

    I only wish my friend K hadn’t developed diabetes. Poor guy, he can’t enjoy all the things he used to, and he got a sudden nosebleed in the parking lot when we left the burger bar. Also, he’s now using crutches to help with walking – I don’t know if it’s the diabetes or something left over from his years in the armed forces kicking up. Well he made it here all right, and hopefully he’ll be able to enjoy his retirement properly.
    ——————————————————

    Jesus Christ, how can WMDKitty equate circumcision to ear piercing? The latter has nothing to do with sexual performance, much less how what you feel during sex. The aftereffects of a botched circumcision don’t go away as easily as holes in the ears (barring infection). I’m tempted to tell her to just ask any guy she’s interested in if he’s uncut or not; she’ll surely find some twit who suits her tastes, and the rest of the male population can rest easy knowing they’ve avoided getting stuck with such a shallow bonebrain.
    ——————————————————-

    LOl @ Walton’s borked link.

  310. cicely says

    Ogvorbis, why do you limit the confuzzlement to the unfamiliar? I know that I’m confuzzled….
    –

    I’m puzzled by the existence of the latest Spiderman. Didn’t people really like the other ones? They were just five years ago! Why do we need a new one?

    I’ve been told that they have to keep their use of the property active, or risk losing it. Unsure how true this is.

    I do know that I’m starting to suffer from a serious case of Batman/Spiderman fatigue. So many reboots…so very tiresome. If it weren’t for the endorsements by people whose judgement I trust, and for the fact that it’s the end of the trilogy (with no option for extension into a series), I wouldn’t bother going to see the new Batman flick, and I’m seriously considering giving Spidey a miss, at least until he reaches the Cheap Seats.
    –
    I wish my Bitsy-cat would quit eating the daddy-longleggses in the bathroom. They’re on Staff.
    –

    Spiders are harmless.

    We do have the reclusive variety hereabouts. They are not considered Staff.
    –
    Charmed opening credits???? Just what do they suspect is trying to immigrate?

    (And I can’t help but thinking…unless you are significantly Native American, do you really stand on the moral high ground wrt illegal immigration? Seems ludicrous to me.)

    (And no, I’m only insignificantly Native American, so I don’t have the high ground, either.)
    –
    Game time!!!
    –

  312. Ogvorbis says

    Ogvorbis, why do you limit the confuzzlement to the unfamiliar? I know that I’m confuzzled….

    Бидејќи не оние од нас кои често овој сајт се доста се користи за да изгние тринаесет необичноста, да се спомене гледање на работите во повремени други јазици showing up. За оние кои се запознаени со блог, исландски, македонски, и гниење тринаесет текст може да доведе непосветен да се верува дека тие залута во еден блог разговара малите коза обожување меѓу американските домаќинки. Оние од нас се користи за заминувања и доаѓања на бескрајната тема разбере дека овој вид на привремена квантната домати фиксација е сосема нормално (за дадената дефиниција на нормалното, што е).

  313. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I’m having a massive, horrible fit of panic because of the stupid financial aid situation.
    And because when I was printing out my application documents, my goddamn printer ran out of ink.

  314. Patricia, OM says

    Cipher – Tankard of three minute grog on its way!

    Oops, almost forgot, “There, there.”

  316. Pteryxx says

    (semi-threadrupt)

    *anklehugs Cipher and leaves ink stains* <_<

    Cipher (uh, that was you, right?) re abortion resources – the recent BoingBoing article was titled 'The only moral abortion is my abortion' as a callback to a famous article collecting stories of anti-abortion women who still have abortions. It's linked lots of places, here's what I think is the main:

    http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

    I don't have access to my stash right now, but there were a lot of great links in the … uh *searches* … the Dumbest Anti-Choice Arguments thread.

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/06/06/a-compendium-of-the-dumbest-anti-choice-arguments-ever/

    —

    Okay…Gytha, Magrat, Amelia, Agnes, Giles, Oliver, Chester, Theo, Vasco, Basil & Cole. I think. Subject to change on having teh sexing verified.

    …Scuse, but how many males and females is that? (Names to me are just… names. Bunches of semirandom letters and noises.)

  317. says

    Pteryxx, it’s four females – Gytha, Magrat, Amelia & Agnes. Giles, Oliver, Chester, Theo, Vasco, Basil & Cole are males. This is assuming I haven’t massively fucked up on the sexing. We will be taking them with us when Esme goes in for surgery on Aug. 6th, so we’ll have our vet double check.

    If I’m not mistaken, the boys already have ball bulges. That is possible at this point, right? (They’re 21 days old.)

  318. Pteryxx says

    Thanks Caine! Yeah, they *can* have balls showing at 21 days, though it might just be the pouches… rat balls slide up and down the inguinal canals, so they can pull them back in at will or when upside down or startled; thus it’s hard to tell for sure.

    …You’re really talented with those bizarre word thingies that get used as individual identifiers. They’re all wonderful-sounding (as far as I can tell), excitingly unusual-looking, go together well as a group, and because of all that I’m completely confused. Oh well!

  319. says

    Pteryxx, it’s the pouches I’m seeing, I’m pretty sure. They are obvious and stand out and the biggest visual difference between the boys and girls. Thank you!

    They’re all wonderful-sounding (as far as I can tell), excitingly unusual-looking, go together well as a group, and because of all that I’m completely confused.

    Hee. Well, some of them are after people or characters.

    Gytha, after Nanny Ogg, one of the witches in the Discworld series.

    Magrat, after Magrat Garlick, another witch in the Discworld series.

    Agnes, after Agnes Nitt, another witch in the Discworld series.

    Amelia, after Amelia Earheart.

    Vasco, after Vasco de Gama.

    Giles, after Sir Giles de Mer, a selkie knight in the Dragon Knight series by Gordon R. Dickson.

    Basil, after Basil Rathbone, one of my all time favourite actors.

    Cole, named for Ronald Colman, another of my all time favourite actors.

    Oliver, Chester and Theo are just names I like a lot. :)

  321. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    Pteryxx, I have the same attitude to names. They’re weird and semirandom.

    Dad’s giving me weird looks as to why I think rats are cute.

  322. Pteryxx says

    oh, I think in my case it’s brain wiring. I do much better with images and concrete concepts than with the amazing neurotypical dance of name/face/traits/history/preferences. It’s interesting to me how very Cainey that list of names is – and, they’re all named after *other names* because that’s how she sees the world. My own rats were named things like Dram, Scuzz, or Sample.

  323. Pteryxx says

    …Oh, I’m particularly proud of this one. I once named a particularly high-strung and jumpy lab mouse Precipitate.

    <_<

  326. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    ‘Rupt past 310.

    Just got done giving Francine a valve adjustment. Holy fuck, but I hate those little screws on the valve cover—I couldn’t get two of them back in (fuckers just would NOT thread) so will try again tomorrow when I’m less frustrated. I was yelling ‘fuck,’ ‘bastard,’ and ‘bitch’ involuntarily until I realized my neighbors probably didn’t need to hear this.

    Woot, though—pick-up and performance boost! Hopefully better economy too; those fuckin’ valves were sooooooo tight and out of adjustment.

  327. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Shame I’ll be away on the day you learn for sure how many ratlets are girls and how many are boys, Caine. Will just have to do a lot of catching up when I get back home, as I’m not sure I’ll have a ton of time for internet.
    ————————————————

    Nice to see WMDKitty took time to actually think for a bit. I’m still not sure she really gets it, though. Well, there’s hope I guess.
    ————————————————

    Thunk:

    Dad’s giving me weird looks as to why I think rats are cute.

    Before posting here, I’d have agreed with him. The only rats I found even remotely cute were the white ones. I forget who it was who said they found the hooded ratlets to be very adorable, but I agree. Even cuter than plain white.

  328. Pteryxx says

    I forget who it was who said they found the hooded ratlets to be very adorable,

    I think that was V— S—-r… and that’s how names and memory work for me. lawl

  331. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Nice to see WMDKitty took time to actually think for a bit. I’m still not sure she really gets it, though. Well, there’s hope I guess.

    She’s still being willfully thick and stupid. Worse, she seems to be hoping no one will remember that her original rationale for circumcision was because it made for a better fuck for her. No such luck, WMD. It’s right there on the page. You can stop pretending you have a higher and more noble concern.

  332. says

    Worse, she seems to be hoping no one will remember that her original rationale for circumcision was because it made for a better fuck for her.

    Which it isn’t. That’s both stupid and wrong.

  334. says

    PTI:

    Shame I’ll be away on the day you learn for sure how many ratlets are girls and how many are boys, Caine.

    Well, assuming I’m right about 4 girls, that’s not too bad at all, in the money sense (getting them spayed.) How Rubin’s crew is going to go, I don’t have a clue yet.

  335. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    That’s beside the point, Ing. It’s fucking outrageous that she’d defend routine circumcision on those grounds even if that were true. I’m beyond gobsmacked she’d even think such a thing in her own head.

  338. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Latest WMDKitty to me:

    “I’m not the one going into hysterics over a bit of skin.”

  339. cicely says

    No Game.
    :(

    Nice BS session, though, on the Care and Feeding of Superhero Franchises.
    –

  340. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Oh and also? Sick to fucking death of comic book superheroes everywhere, all the time. It’s beyond “a little much”.

  341. says

    Hello everyone! Had a fantastic day– met some friends for a late lunch, then I went to buy crafting supplies (unsuccessfully, but whatever) with my younger (non-asshole) sister. I’m feeling very content and relaxed.

    Caine:
    I showed my mom your ratlet pics today. She wasn’t too fond of the nekkid ones, but the current post of Esme’s litter made her squee!
    :D

    (She also told me that she misses my old rat Simon. Me too, Ma, me too.)

  343. says

    Pteryxx:

    SEE I WAS RI—T! *flexes and poses*

    You were! You’re better at it than you think. :)

    Josh, I’m with you on the comic book flicks, I’m not going to see the latest batman or spiderman. I’m burnt out on them.

  344. says

    Hello Josh!

    DarkFetus is doing well (and me too), but I’m constantly getting kicked and punched– at this point, I’d like an hour or two of peace and quiet.

    On the other hand, it pleased my mom and dad to no end when they finally felt her kicking. :)

  346. says

    Audley:

    I showed my mom your ratlet pics today. She wasn’t too fond of the nekkid ones, but the current post of Esme’s litter made her squee!

    Hee. They get to everyone. The cute is seriously almost too much to bear. Now, whenever I get near the condo, they rush to the doors, start climbing them, rush up the ladders to me and it just makes my heart ache.

    Poor Esme, though. She’s always right at one of the doors where they open, giving me these imploring looks – “oh gods, please get me away from these kidses!” She’s still very much ferocious mom though. The other day, I used my cutting board and several artboards to cordon off a small area around the condo to let the popcorn *pop* and Esme went berserk. (She and Rubin were having a day out of the condos.) Esme kept trying to push her way in and succeeded a few times, each time grabbing a kid and running off with it. Fun day, that.

    All of Esme’s ratlets are eating dry food and salad now and every one of ’em is a tea drinker. They are all still nursing, too. I feel so bad for Esme when they are nursing and nipple wars breaks out…she gets such a look on her little face.

  347. says

    Caine:

    I feel so bad for Esme when they are nursing and nipple wars breaks out…she gets such a look on her little face.

    D:

    How many nips to rats have, anyway? (I never thought to even look for a rats nips before. I suppose Esme and Rubin are pretty nippletastic at this point.)

  348. Pteryxx says

    *blush* Thanks Caine, I’m really not… just had the impulse to make an example of how I see names (or rather, don’t see them).

    To me, you’re mostly C— (ratlets!!)(survivor)(admire)(namey)(quick/erudite) and a long tail of other associations. There are a whole bunch of people who I mostly admire who are C— (active on feminism threads) and I keep getting them mixed up… and at least one is a newcomer. Back when Cipher was ClassicalCipher, then she was C—–C— and much easier for me to recognize. >_>

    What I don’t have associations for, you may have noticed, are specific conversations, who lives where, who’s friends with whom, or details of anyone’s lives (unless they’re blatantly relevant, such as ratlets). Every time I go to your page I’ve forgotten that you also embroider, for instance. For that sort of thing, I have to keep notes and logs of relevant threads.

    Social skills wise, this makes me very bad at the small talk expected of friends, except in areas of common interest (such as ratlets, again). Workplace politics… forget it; the context just isn’t there. Online text and chat work soooOOOO much better with logging and everyone’s comments marked with their name.

  349. says

    Audley, they have 12. And they are, indeed, nippletastic. Male rats don’t have nipples. Strangely enough, I never thought about that, prior to the whole ratlets business, I never once looked, I just assumed they were there.

  352. Pteryxx says

    Nipples work well for sexing pups too; right at the fuzzy stage, females will have visible nipples and males won’t. Once they’re thoroughly furred it’s harder to tell.

  354. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    I sometimes remember names by number of letters. Therefore, I always trip up Cicely, Caerie, Cipher, and carlie, as they all have six. Caine has five.

  356. says

    Caine:

    Male rats don’t have nipples.

    That would explain why I have no idea about rat nipples, I guess.

    Pteryxx:

    Caerie, that’s it! I keep seeing her name and thinking she’s you.

    I have the same problem right off the bat, too*, but that’s because of my dyslexia and bad habit of skimming names (when I should be paying attention to Caine’s suffix, for instance).

    Caine and Caerie just don’t “read” differently to me.

    *Completely different commenting styles, so by the end of the post, I’ve figured out who it is.

  358. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    Ah, please leave it to me to mess up everyone’s casing.

    I even capitalized my own nym once. :/

  359. Pteryxx says

    I mostly go by, I guess, some short of shape/rhythm/outline combination. When I was newer, for quite a while I mixed up Ing and Josh. (might be clearer as I– and J–.)

  360. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    And also by color of gravatar. I’m orange, Tony and Jadehawk’s blue, Caine’s light red, and skeptifem/ixchel is green. Zombie Porcupine is burgundy or something, and Nutmeg brown. That’s my main associations.

  363. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    And mind you, ixchel and skeptifem are “light green” to me, and Walton and Jadzia, dark green.

    People whose gravatars aren’t a solid color (Audley, Josh, Kat), I just remember the pictures.

  364. Pteryxx says

    Heh – I don’t *remember* anyone’s avatars, but if they change, suddenly I don’t recognize the name anymore. *headdesk*

  365. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    For some people, I never noticed purple.

    Now I have to remember Beatrice and David Marjanovic as light purple, and cm as dark purple.

  366. Pteryxx says

    lawl! My associative brain recognizes “David Marjanovic” as:

    D
    a
    v
    i
    d

    M
    a
    r
    j
    a
    n
    o
    v
    i
    c

  367. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    And WMDKitty continues to dissemble and tell me (in all caps) to calm the fuck down, and that I’m in hysterics.

  368. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    Jacklewis is a purple avatar, and its Slimepit buddy tigzy olive…

    Also, Esteleth is yellow, and Ms. Daisy Cutter cream.

  370. Pteryxx says

    Caine and Caerie just don’t “read” differently to me.

    *Completely different commenting styles, so by the end of the post, I’ve figured out who it is.

    Audley, same here… I’ll be reading Caerie and wondering why Caine is being so polite. (For what it’s worth, I’m not dyslexic… whatever wiring difficulty I have, it’s specific to names.)

  371. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Worse, she seems to be hoping no one will remember that her original rationale for circumcision was because it made for a better fuck for her.

    Which it isn’t. That’s both stupid and wrong.

    The proximate reason she said that, though (beginning at comment #12), was because the previous comment suggested that infant circumcision reduces penile sensation.

    There’s good evidence against this claim, but nobody challenged it.

    +++++
    PS, Josh, your implied correlation between pro-circumcision and “crazy” is idiotic.

  372. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Ixchel: Go for the gold. My careless use of “crazy” is clearly more noteworthy than WMDKitty’s circumcision apologia. What, do you think I’m so stupid that I need you to explain to me what her proximate reason was? Piss off.

  374. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    And ixchel, please take it to TZT so we don’t get smacked by PZ for fouling up the lounge. That will have the added benefit of me not being around to engage you because I don’t care to play.

  375. says

    The proximate reason she said that, though (beginning at comment #12), was because the previous comment suggested that infant circumcision reduces penile sensation.

    There’s good evidence against this claim, but nobody challenged it.

    I thought it had been mentioned.

  377. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I got such a freaky picture of a spider thing today!
    I haven’t put it up yet, but I’m excited.

  378. says

    Ixchel:

    The proximate reason she said that, though (beginning at comment #12), was because the previous comment suggested that infant circumcision reduces penile sensation.

    That hardly excuses her idiotic rationale.

  380. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    My careless use of “crazy” is clearly more noteworthy than WMDKitty’s circumcision apologia.

    What is this, she’s worse so don’t criticize you? А у вас негров линчуют?

    I don’t care if she’s a neo-Nazi. In that case it would be wrong to correlate her Nazism with “crazy”.

    What, do you think I’m so stupid that I need you to explain to me what her proximate reason was?

    No, but evidently folks here* need me to explain how to argue her out of her beliefs.

    Therefore I gave y’all the evidence that directly undermines her reasoning.

    Use it or don’t; I don’t care whether you convince her in particular. But I do care that people generally become aware that there’s good evidence against the claim.

    *Note that the first bit of my response, above the +++++, was to Ing. (Ain’t all about you. ;)

    +++++

    Also yes, SG, we noticed. It was sort of blindingly obvious with how she was trying to respin it as us trying to turn women into fuck toys.

    Noticed, but failed to challenge the claim.

    +++++

    That hardly excuses her idiotic rationale.

    Did I say otherwise?

    Isn’t it apparent that I’m bothered by the claim itself?

  381. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    That hardly excuses her idiotic rationale.

    Which is completely transparent to anyone with the coarsest familiarity with ethical prioritization. Or one not given to riding hobby horses obsessively. Almost like OCD. Yeah, I said it. And I get to, having the condition myself.

    Know what else? I’ve been calling my daily psych meds my Crazy Pills™ for 20 years. And in public!

    Neener-neener.

  382. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    No, but evidently folks here* need me to explain how to argue her out of her beliefs.

    Oh for goodness’ sake. Do that in private.

  383. says

    Ing:

    In fact I’d say that it makes it worse.

    I agree.

    Ixchel:

    No, but evidently folks here* need me to explain how to argue her out of her beliefs.

    No, they do not. If you think you can argue her out of her beliefs, then go fucking do it yourself. Stop this asinine lecturing people, please.

  384. says

    Cipher:

    I got such a freaky picture of a spider thing today!

    Oooh. A spider or a spider thing? If it’s a spider, I hope it’s an orb weaver. I love orb weavers.

  385. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I am not entirely certain that it is a spider, as it looks like it has eight legs and two segments but it’s all… odd-shaped? But sadly, I don’t think it’s an orb-weaver.

  386. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Or maybe it is!
    I fail at spider identification :P I have no idea how I managed to hold steady enough to take that picture, considering I can barely look at the picture now.

  389. Brother Yam says

    Hey y’all

    I have a question for the hive-mind: a friend of mine has a very inquisitive 6 year old that has requested books about evolution and DNA. The evolution part was fairly simple, but does anyone know of a book that explains DNA in a general way? He’s a bright kid, so I would think that a book for a 10 year old may suffice, but I’m stumped as to a suggestion. Any ideas?

    Thanks in advance…

  390. says

    @SG

    Oh, right. I forgot that women aren’t supposed to enjoy sex — we’re supposed to just lie back and let him rut away for three to five strokes and pretend it was “good for us, too”.

    Never mind what WE enjoy or want…

    You are factually wrong. And frankly you’re engaged in a bizarre bit of “they’re only good if they can pleasure” dehumanizing of males.

  392. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Thanks! :D
    My mom and I are both trying to narrow down the type of orb weaver, but we’re both squicked somewhat by spiders in general, so neither of us is succeeding.

  393. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Caine and Josh, your replies.

    +++++
    Ing, good show. And now you have evidence to back your assertion.

  394. Amblebury says

    Hello, everyone. I’ve not been around much of late. I’m presently at work. Wet Sunday + library = lotsa peoples. Some a little fractious. Particularly the gent who was somewhat incredulous, (in a kind of it’s-your-fault sort of way,) on being informed Evelyn Waugh was male.

    So it goes. I’ll catch up when I get home.

  395. Tethys says

    Yay, spider identification!

    It is a nursery web spider. Pisaurina mira.
    ____

    Just got home from Mom’s 70th birthday party. It was very loud, and we had a good time playing games. My two nephews who have autism symptoms have been on the Feingold diet since April. They have transformed into sweet, talkative, growing, happy children!

    Before this all family events involved one or both of them turning into a destructive demon child who is screaming at a ear-bleed inducing pitch.

  397. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    I’m fortifying my anti-cicely defenses in a big pot on the stove.

  400. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Ummmm…what did I miss?

    See, I caught cicely skulking about these parts last night, going through my cupboards and dumping out all my legumes. So I’m taking a stand. Split pea soup will stop her pesky meddling.

  401. Tethys says

    You’re made of pure awesome.

    *blush*

    In another former job I was a horticulturist and director of IPM* for the amusement park atrium in the center of the Mall of America.

    *integrated pest management

    We released many different beneficials as part of the program.
    My favorite was the Australian Lady-beetle Cryptolaemus montrouzieri aka mealybug destroyer.

    The larval form is really amazing.

  405. says

    Josh:

    See, I caught cicely skulking about these parts last night, going through my cupboards and dumping out all my legumes. So I’m taking a stand. Split “pea” soup will stop her pesky meddling.

    Aha! You know she’s going to set the horses on you now, right?

  406. says

    Today we went to the senior community where my inlaws live, because they’re having a yearly community yard sale. In previous years pickings have been slim, on the order of a few vintage tablecloths and a bracelet or pair of shoes — my hypothesis for this is that when people join these communities, they get rid of the accreted cool stuff of a lifetime during the moving process, so there’s not much for them to sell once they’ve settled in.

    But not this year! This year apparently there was so much stuff they couldn’t even display it all in the community hall, and by the time we got there they’d breezed right past the “cutting everything to half price” strategy and gone straight to the Defcon 5 of yard sales, the “whatever you can cram in a bag is a dollar, and we mean whatever” strategy.

    I brought home vintage crewel-work handbags, corningware, chiffon scarves, costume jewelry (including a Sarah Coventry set that’s apparently quite hard to find), dish towels and embroidered pillow cases, and an electric fondue set. I felt a little bad knowing I was going to resell a lot of these things on ebay for much more, but the nice old ladies kept urging us to take more! push it down harder in the bag! you can fit this in here and you need it, everyone needs one! etc, etc.

    At a separate sale I found the gem of the day though — a button collection with hundreds of buttons. Hell, hundreds of mother-of-pearl shirt buttons alone. As I sorted through them (hello, aspie here, of course I sorted through them practically first thing) it became clear that this was the collection of someone who has spent decades not just buying new buttons but saving the buttons from every piece of clothing that wore out. Many many of the buttons have worn edges — for the mother-of-pearl buttons alone, dozens and dozens of shirts/blouses must have passed through her hands for at least 40 years.

    That collection is practically a history of buttons since the 1940s or so. There were shoe buttons and cufflinks in it too — the lady seemed strangely reluctant to actually sell them all, and I got the feeling that this was someone who sewed for as long as she can remember, who can’t sew anymore because of eyesight or dexterity or because she has no one to sew for, and who really felt it in the moment someone offered her money for her button collection.

    (We paid the first price she could bring herself to name. I plan to sell the buttons I can’t personally see myself using, and while I wouldn’t be surprised if I recouped the cost we paid her, I don’t expect to make a profit from it.)

  409. cicely says

    I’m fortifying my anti-cicely defenses in a big pot on the stove.

    :( :( :(
    But Josh, I mean you no harm! And can’t possibly plan an invasion of your premises for any sooner than we finish buying back my ass; a year or so, at minimum! And anyways, I am small and utterly harmless!
    –

    See, I caught cicely skulking about these parts last night, going through my cupboards and dumping out all my legumes. So I’m taking a stand. Split pea soup will stop her pesky meddling.

    *small noise of outrage & offense*
    I never did!
    I would never dump out any beans you might own, and if i were to do anything at all to The Legumes Which Should Not Be Named, it would only be because I desperately needed porcupine stuffing in a hurry!

    And besides that, you can’t justly call it “skulking”, which implies stealth, and my cane makes way too much noise for that.

    And my eyes are old and feeble; the sound of my inept rummaging (in the dark, yet!) would in itself preclude stealthy skulkery.

    So there!
    –

  411. says

    Also, I think that WMD Kitty is being screamingly wrong to the point of collapsing into evil on that thread. But even so this is wrong: folks here need me to explain how to argue her out of her beliefs. For multiple reasons. 1) If you genuinely know how to argue her out of her beliefs (which I doubt), then go and do it yourself. 2) Josh is venting, not looking for teh majikal solution. 3) The rest of the thread doesn’t “need” to be dragged into this. If we want to, we can go there already.

  413. says

    Alethea:

    Also, I think that WMD Kitty is being screamingly wrong to the point of collapsing into evil on that thread.

    She’s gone ’round the bend on a number of issues lately. I don’t know what in the hell has happened with her.

  415. cicely says

    Aha! You know she’s going to set the horses on you now, right?

    I do not have ado with the Horses; They’ll just have to set themselves.
    –
    kristinc, it sounds like a noteworthy swag-pile. I am envious.
    :)
    –

  416. Tethys says

    Cipher

    You are welcome! I love that there are others who appreciate identifying things by Latin nomenclature.

  417. Tethys says

    I have too many raspberries.

    I started freezing them in jam sized batches. It’s been way too hot for canning.

  418. says

    The things I found that I am puzzled about (in the button collection of awsum) look vaguely like cufflinks — they each have one glass cabochon in a metal setting — but they include a sort of spring loaded mechanism about an inch long and slightly pointy, sort of like a finishing nail in thickness and sharpness. I can’t find any sort of cufflink they could be, they’re not collar stays or shoe buttons, what they hell are they?

  420. Tethys says

    Alethea

    I HAZ A TRILOBITE! Also a mososaur tooth and a fossilized cockle shell.

    Very cool! Pics? Do you know what type of trilobite?

  421. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Tethys, is it weird for a damselfly to be white and black? I’m asking because mostly we have Common Blue and then some sort that is narrower and mostly black with a blue or green tip of its tail, but Jake found one yesterday that was white where I would have expected to see blue.

  422. says

    I don’t have pics. It’s tiny, about 2/3 the size of my little fingernail. The gift came with notes, and it says Elrathia kingii, 507 million years old (Cambrian), Wheeler Formation, Utah, USA. The mososaur tooth is from Morocco and the cockle shell from Western Australia.

  423. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Alethea, since you want to argue here instead of TZT,

    But even so this is wrong: “folks here need me to explain how to argue her out of her beliefs.” For multiple reasons. 1) If you genuinely know how to argue her out of her beliefs (which I doubt), then go and do it yourself.

    No thanks. I don’t comment at B&W, and I don’t care whether you convince her in particular. But I do care that people generally become aware that there’s good evidence against the claim.

    2) Josh is venting, not looking for teh majikal solution.

    Again: “Note that the first bit of my response, above the +++++, was to Ing. (Ain’t all about [Josh]. ;)

    3) The rest of the thread doesn’t “need” to be dragged into this. If we want to, we can go there already.

    This is a response to everyone else who talked about WMDKitty here, not just me.

  425. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Cicely: All right. Perhaps we can come to detente. Put down that cane and I’ll put down the dried peas. :)

    Mopar: Please don’t tempt me so. Yes, yes, I want to fly to Oklahoma and drive that Volare wagon home to give Francine a companion.

  427. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Holy hell, is there someone out there jogging this late at night? Or hammering something? I can’t tell, the pounding sounds almost like footsteps but it’s not regular enough to really be someone running at a steady pace.

    I miss the owl. It was cool to hear one in our yard the other night. I wish it would come back.
    ——————————————————-

    She’s admitted that she was wrong. I hope I’m just imagining the note of “Just chill out, OK?” in her last post. It’s late, I probably am.
    ——————————————————-

    What with the talk of horses and peas, I’m now imagining the Four Horsemen attacking everyone with enormous bags of frozen peas. And the horses themselves eat some of the peas and belch putrid clouds of gas to stun or render victims comatose.
    ———————————————————

    One more thing to finish for class, for which I need to re-watch one of the videos. I’ll have to tell J we need to cancel, there’s no way I could get out of the house with only like fours hours of sleep. For once I’d like a Sunday where I don’t rush to get an assignment done before bed, lazy arse that I can be.

  428. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Oh Caine, my love affair with Mopar is sick and intense. What year was your Satellite, and what engine?

    My shirt smells like exhaust and oil. . and Slant Six love after lovingly caressing Francine’s valve tappets this evening.

    How’d you end up with an Elky, and is it as easy to work on as a Chrysler?

  429. Tethys says

    Caine

    Oooh, aggressive mimicry. Fascinating

    We released adults, and hoped for larva. They look very much like fuzzy white alligators. They lived up to their name. A few of them on a plant would totally eliminate the mealybugs.

    Most of my section was no spray because I had reproducing populations of various beneficials.

    I miss growing camellias, and Australian Tree ferns.
    It was one of my favorite jobs ever.

  430. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Note for fairness: WMDKitty has retracted and apologized at Ophelia’s.

  431. says

    Josh:

    Oh Caine, my love affair with Mopar is sick and intense. What year was your Satellite, and what engine?

    Annie was a ’65, 318. Blue paint (original), black interior, bucket seats. She was so goddamn sweet, I get all teary just thinking about her. It about killed us to lose her – we were in Utah, getting ready to move to ND when she lost a transmission band. So, we sold her and took the ’71 Pontiac LeMans with us to ND.

    How’d you end up with an Elky, and is it as easy to work on as a Chrysler?

    Bought it from a friend for $400.00 and I’d say yes, they’re easy to work on. However, it can be a pain in the ass finding stock parts. Catalaine needs a new radiator and we’re still trying to track one down.

  432. Tethys says

    Cipher

    Is this your damselfly? It is a very common variety.

    Mature adults differ from most other blue damselflies in having expanded white edges to the tibiae, paired black markings down most of the abdomen, broad pale brown double antehumeral stripes, wider head and a pale brown pterostigmata

    Juveniles are blue.

  433. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Ooooh “Catalaine.” You told me that before, but I’d forgotten. Fab name. I heart her even though I’ve never known a General Motors girl.

  434. says

    Tethys:

    Most of my section was no spray because I had reproducing populations of various beneficials.

    Yay! for you. That’s a great way to go.

    Josh:

    Note for fairness: WMDKitty has retracted and apologized at Ophelia’s.

    That’s good news.

  436. says

    WTF is up with the gun thing where people apparently hear “maybe we should control assault rifles and other high calibers more because its very easy to do a lot of damage with them” and hear “we should irradiate every gun because they are magic and make people want to murder”

  437. Tethys says

    Juveniles are blue.</strike

    Newly emerged adults are bluer is much more accurate, as the juvenile form is aquatic.

  438. Tethys says

    Gah! Sorry, I meant to hit preview not submit.

    Newly emerged damselfly adults are bluer. They change color when they become sexually mature.

  439. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Caine she’s gorgeous! Tell me she’s rarely out in the snow like that.

  440. Tethys says

    Tell me she’s rarely out in the snow like that.

    ND doesn’t salt the roads in winter. Vehicles don’t rust there like they do here in MN. My Grandfather’s Studebaker wood side pick-up truck doesn’t have hardly any rust on it.

  442. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    How DO you keep her from rusting? Is it as Tethys says, a lack of salt?

  443. Nutmeg says

    Survived the bachelorette party.

    The movie and dinner were both easy to get through. We all had to wear stupid little bachelorette party buttons declaring us “wild” or “sexy” or “flirty”. But I managed to “lose” mine on the way from the movie to dinner, so that was good.

    The pre-gaming (does that term exist outside of MB?) session was tolerable. It was pretty tame compared to what I was worried about. We played “Pin the Junk on the Hunk” and decorated cookies shaped like penises. I took David M’s suggestion and focused on my enthusiasm about cookies, which made it less awkward.

    After that we went to a club. I lack the spontaneity required for dancing, so I just stood awkwardly while my friends were dancing. People-watching was somewhat interesting – it made me wish I could read people better, because there seemed to be a lot of interesting interactions going on, but I couldn’t quite figure them out.

    Of course, I got mildly lost on the way out of downtown, so I ended up going for a midnight drive around the seedier areas of the city before I found my way back to a main route.

    I am so glad that tonight is over.

  444. says

    Josh:

    Is it as Tethys says, a lack of salt?

    Yep, pretty much. It’s easy to control rust on cars here. If you do find a spot rusting, and take care of it right away, no problem. Snow is just water, it doesn’t cause much damage. Salt is the killer.

  445. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    WMDKitty has retracted and apologized at Ophelia’s.

    Then I was wrong; citation not needed, my arrogance unfounded.

    I’m sorry. Apologies to Josh and Ing.

  446. Walton says

    Also, Walton, really? Charmed? FOR SHAME!

    *blushes*
    *hangs head in shame*

    In my defence, it does feature Alyssa Milano…

  447. Tony the Parkour Kat [safe and welcome at FtB] says

    So I got to thinking about WMDkitty and her awful reasoning and arguments for circumcision. Where is the fundamental disagreement here? Does she disagree about circumcision being about bodily autonomy? Does she understand the concept of of the human right to bodily autonomy? Does she just not agree that circumcision is bodily mutilation? Does she understand what it means to be mutilated? I’m trying to grasp why she has the opinions she does in an attempt to know how best to argue with her.
    I tend to think that she doesn’t grasp bodily autonomy & she doesn’t agree that circumcision is genital mutilation. So how to proceed?
    (Apologies if this has been addressed. Until I can get online-internet was cut off bc bill is not paid, should be Monday-Im limited in my ability to get online; my phone isn’t really suited for this kind of discussion; being limited like this made me realize how much I value this space here at PHARYNGULA in general and TET in specific. I really enjoy having you folks to chat with and learn from)

  448. John Morales says

    Audley,

    DarkFetus is doing well (and me too), but I’m constantly getting kicked and punched– at this point, I’d like an hour or two of peace and quiet.

    O mom-to-be, I guess now you viscerally understand “the Quickening”. :)

  449. John Morales says

    [meta]

    ॐ, toeing the line ain’t a good idea — imagine you’re on probation.

    (Need I write more?)

  450. jonmilne says

    Okay then…

    Bruce Wayne – By far the best performance as Bruce Wayne that anyone has ever delivered. Bale definitely plays the vulnerability card well and really makes for an ultra convincing “fallen icon who needs another woman to make him recover” persona.

    Batman – Well, at least they fixed the Chain Smoker voice a little bit. Still very imposing and menacing, but I’d still take Keaton’s Batman anyday.

    Villain – certainly the weakest of the trilogy, but considering the sheer strength of competition, that’s hardly a knock against either Bane or Tom Hardy’s performance as him. Yes, there are some speech deciphering issues, but it’s only a minority part of the film, and when most of the time you hear him speak, it’s fucking scary as hell. Absolute brilliant one-liners, and of course his physical parts in the movie are absolutely fantastic. Those who wanted a certain something from the Bane vs Batman encounters won’t be disappointed I believe. For Batman movie villain performances, I’d certainly put him above the Schumacher villains, and hell nearly all the Burton villains aside from Nicholson’s Joker.

    Supporting cast – Caine, Freeman and Oldman are all as reliably great as ever, but Hathaway and Gordon-Levitt steal this movie with their scenes, because they’re really that awesome in their roles – it’s official, Hathaway makes a better Selina Kyle/Catwoman than Michelle Pfieffer. This is the thing I love about Nolan: he’s brilliant about turning good actors on the verge of being great into truly astounding performances. The woman who plays Miranda Tate (cough cough) is pretty damn good as well and she’s another extra special reason to watch this movie. Having Neeson and Murphy back was a joy too.

    Plot – by far the best of the series. We may see less Batman as a result, but fuck it, less is more. I loved the real sense of despair here, and how well and truly fucked up the shit gets in Gotham. The police also look far less like idiots than they did in BB and TDK, which was refreshing.

    So yeah, overall, brilliant movie, best one I’ve seen of 2012, and definitely far better than the other two comic book movies this year. Don’t get me wrong, I loved both Avengers and Amazing Spiderman, but when put next to this movie, they look like Justin Bieber and Ke$ha to The Dark Knight Rises’s Freddy Mercury. It’s one of the only movies I’ve ever been to that got a standing ovation. That shit just doesn’t happen around here.

    What’s the spoiler policy with regards to discussing this movie?

  452. John Morales says

    PS

    What’s the spoiler policy with regards to discussing this movie?

    <snicker>

    This. Is. Pharyngula.

    (The policy is don’t annoy PZ; you’re a regular, try to figure the specifics out yourself)

  453. Pteryxx says

    jonmilne: Post whatever spoilers *under cover of rot13 encoding* plz.

    Here’s a handy encoder/decoder, there are others online:

    http://rot13.com/

    Encoded text looks like this:

    wbazvyar: Cbfg jungrire fcbvyref *haqre pbire bs ebg13 rapbqvat*.

  455. jonmilne says

    Bxnl, fb nsgre nyy gur npgerff’f qravnyf nobhg ure gehr vqragvgl, ubj qb lbh guvax gur eriryngvba bs Zvenaqn Gngr nf Gnyvn Ny Tuhy pnzr bss?

  456. Pteryxx says

    forgot to mention – please put a topic in plaintext, such as ‘DKR spoilers below’, because folks also rot13 other topics and sometimes triggering material.

  457. jonmilne says

    Right, sorry, that last post was indeed DKR Spoilers:

    Bxnl, fb nsgre nyy gur npgerff’f qravnyf nobhg ure gehr vqragvgl, ubj qb lbh guvax gur eriryngvba bs Zvenaqn Gngr nf Gnyvn Ny Tuhy pnzr bss?

  460. Pteryxx says

    *anklehugs Setar*

    …maybe you could call and give them your notes for now, to follow up when you can? Written testimony also counts.

  461. Vilém Saptar says

    Hello!

    Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan, Pteryxx, Caine, yes, that was me! I was partly making up for thinking the hoodie ratlets were laggards in furring last week, but they really are cuter, but then again they all are lovely.
     
    Alethea, Trilobite? You get coool gifts!
     
    thunk, I get my own colour association? Aw, thanks! (This is cool, since I rarely clock more than a couple comments every sub-thread and it’s only been like a month I’ve been here.)
     
    Ing, you mean “eradicate”, right? I’m guessing your autocorrect is in overdrive, you said “irradiate” on that “I wish we didn’t have Atheists saying this” thread too.
     
    Setár, harassed? So sorry to hear that. Hope you are taking care of yourself and getting help if you need.
     
    Tony, are you really into that parkouring stuff, or is that just a nym? Also, I dunno if you know, WMDKitty admitted their mistake and apologized.

  462. says

    Pteryxx, it’s calling in the first place that’s the problem. It’s dealing with people, more specifically dealing with police, that sets me off.

    Plus, I have been heavily conditioned to believe that these sorts of debilitating reactions I have do not matter, because of the amount of times that my peers and family have brought them on with little if any (real) apology.

    -sigh- and, of course, there is the part of my head that feels really weak and pathetic for having a minor anxiety attack over reporting because I know my fellow choicers are behind me and want to see the asshole brought to justice.

    But I can’t do it. I just can’t. If I had someone sitting next to me to kind of keep me in it and help me through, sure. But not on my own. Not sitting here alone. I can’t do that. I’ve done that too many times and had it come out with no result. And I don’t want to break down into a crying mess.

    ><;;;;;

  463. Pteryxx says

    aw, Setar, I’m sorry. I wish I were close enough to be moral support. As you know, it’s not worth doing collateral damage to yourself in the process. *telepathically wishes for one of your fellow supporters to check on you*

    …Maybe contact a crisis center? They have advocates specifically for this sort of thing – one went to court with me.

  464. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    I lurves me a spider. One of these showed up in my back garden this week. Squeeeing was heard by all.

  465. Ogvorbis says

    Happy Friday!

    Does anyone know a medication that could stop me dreaming at night?

    Boy is going on vacation up to Maine. Girl is living with future SiL. Wife and I are actually going to have five days with just the two of us.

    Just the two of us. We can wander around the house naked if we want. I can cook (not bacon) naked if I want.

    Neat.

  466. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Does anyone know a medication that could stop me dreaming at night?

    Caffeine?

  468. says

    John,
    You made me smile this morning. ;)

    Jonmilne,
    I agree with your assessment of DKR, although I think the The Dark Knight overall was the best. It worked very well with the simpler story, since it didn’t detract from Heath Leger’s Joker.

    Anyway, now I’m off to try to figure out how to copy-pasta on my Kindle, so I can read what you rot13ed!

  470. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Brother O: No, no, no. I’m sorry. A winky emoticon maybe would have helped I guess.

    I’m sorry about your dreams…I thought my humor would have been interpreted like a shoulder-chuck, or something. Please forgive me.

  471. Ogvorbis says

    Antiochus;

    No, you’re right.

    Who the hell am I to dump my psychological shortcomings on you? I have a really good life, happily married, I job that I enjoy most of, and a few nightmares and panic attacks from two minor isolated tangential events in my life. Y’all are not therapists or psychiatrists (or, if you are, you are smart enough not to try to help people with delusions of problems) and I need to stop treating this place like the couch in a psychiatrists office. I apologize for dumping this shit here and will stop doing so. All of it.

    I have no idea who I am even talking to here. I mean, I recognize the nyms, I have gotten bits and pieces of life histories, of careers, of families, of pets, but you really are a bunch of strangers to me. You don’t know who I am and I don’t know who you are. Anyway, I feel really shitty that I have been dumping my bad dreams (and that’s all they are — if I can’t handle a bad dream then I just need to fucking grow up, right?) on you when some around here have real issues they are trying to deal with. Not fair on my part.

    I just feel so damn out of it. I am scared when I see a camera pointed towards me and I don’t know why. The smell-induced panic attacks and the olfactory hallucinations from 2001 I can handle — I know whence they came and I know they are just residue — but when I hit up against something I don’t understand, I don’t remember why it affects me I get a little nervous. I remember most of what that bastard did to me (and others) and that’s enough, I don’t need to remember more.

    Anyway, I really do apologize for dumping on the family thread. You don’t need to know this shit, right? I need to stick to what I am actually good for — bad jokes, recipes, fire stories, and trains. I’ll try. Just remind me if when I fuck up again.

  473. carlie says

    No no no no no no no. Ogvorbis, we do know you, and you do know us. It’s been years now that we’ve all been writing back and forth. It’s like pen pals, only in much closer to real time. Lots of us have dumped things here that we can’t quite cope with telling people we see in person every day, and lots of us have found out that no, we’re not the only person with that problem the way we thought we were. I wish you could come to Rhinebeck (or any other gathering where there are Horde people); it’s kind of stunning the way these relationships just ease right into in person without even a pause. You’re real, and we’re real. Sure, we don’t all know what each other looks like, or what our favorite place to go for lunch is, or what music is most likely to be wafting out of our office (well, maybe Janine :) ). But I see people every single day IRL who I know those things about, but don’t know what really makes them tick; I don’t know what subjects they’re most passionate about, I don’t know which of their relatives set them off and how, I don’t know what they lie awake worrying about at night. We just know different sets of information about people online than people who live within a 10 mile radius of us. That doesn’t make it lesser.

    The reason that people have suggested professional assistance is both because some of us have been through things that were helped with professionals, and because we know we only have the skill set to listen and sympathize but not the full suite of knowledge of Things That Can Help. Not because we don’t want you to talk about it when you need to. Anybody who doesn’t want to read about it can easily skip over. You’re dealing with a lot of shit that is not your fault and you never should have had to go through – please don’t be hard on yourself because of it.

  474. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Interesting article. I do not know the answer to the question posed in the title (except, “trying a 14-year-old as an adult is a bad idea”).

    Worst quote was from the prison warden about how back then, they struggled with a 14-year-old in gen pop. Now, they know what to do, even have a special ward for them.

    Stay out of the comments. Trolls ahoy. Armchair psychiatrist trolls ahoy.

  475. says

    I’m still feeling profoundly tired, despite lots of sleep, and I’m paranoid as hell that what is probably a bog-standard (no pun intended) mosquito bite on my midsection, the scab of which I picked off a while back, is a deer tick bite. Probably not. I’ve had it for two weeks now and it hasn’t gotten bigger or grown a red ring around the original wound. The scabless wound looks a bit like a bull’s-eye, but, again, that would have remained covered had I not picked at it, the way my parents always warned me not to.

    How would I get a tick bite on my midsection? Well, it’s possible that one of the large dogs belonging to the friends I visited two weeks ago had one in his coat, and he brushed up against me. It’s also possible that a tick crawled over me while I was sleeping in their basement, which was much cooler than the upper house but quite damp. However, neither is highly likely — my midsection was covered, and the basement had recently been sprayed for pests.

    Ogvorbis:

    We would catch one of the males, walk down to the visitor center at Grand Canyon, put the spider on our shoulder, or back, or head, or some other handy perch, and walk in. In anywhere from 15 seconds to 5 minutes, screams and the sounds of stampeding visitors would fill the lobby, followed very quickly by one of our dads charging out of his office to yell at us for disturbing the wildlife.

    /howls

    Josh:

    I was yelling ‘fuck,’ ‘bastard,’ and ‘bitch’ involuntarily until I realized my neighbors probably didn’t need to hear this.

    /roffles some more

    Thanks for the laughs.

    and Slant Six love after lovingly caressing Francine’s valve tappets this evening.

    Yay, auto-eroticism.

    Thunk:

    and Ms. Daisy Cutter cream.

    Huh. Huh-huh. “Cream.”

    Kristin: Hooray for yard-sale booty! (And other kinds of booty, but I digress.) That button collection alone made the rummaging worthwhile.

    When I visited Josh last weekend, I braved the heat to visit two nearby sales, and I got lots of books, half a dozen CDs, and toiletries on the cheap.

    Christ, Setár, I’m so sorry you had to deal with that shit at the counter-demo. And those fuckrags do their best to upset pro-choicers because, like Phred Phelch, they’re hoping pro-choicers will be provoked into physically attacking them.

    FWIW, I understand what you mean by conditioning. Like I said before, gaslighting in your formative years is tough.

    Ogvorbis, what Carlie said.

  476. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Oggie, if you want to trade emails, I can offer you a friendly ear (or eye).

    Seriously, I mean that. Also, what carlie said.

  477. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    Og: Seriously. What Carlie said. Life is difficult enough.

    Again, sorry. I’m an insensitive jackhole.

  478. Walton says

    Ogvorbis,

    (and that’s all they are — if I can’t handle a bad dream then I just need to fucking grow up, right?)

    No. Don’t blame yourself. As Carlie said,

    You’re dealing with a lot of shit that is not your fault and you never should have had to go through – please don’t be hard on yourself because of it.

    QFT.

  480. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Og, everything Carlie said is true. Also, *hugs.* This “my problems don’t count, they’re not as bad as everyone else’s, I should just get over it, everyone else has enough to deal with” stuff – a lot of us do it. Maybe it’s part of the thing that abuse does? Makes us feel like whatever is going on with us, we’re not worthy of being taken seriously, even by ourselves. I don’t know. But it isn’t true. :(

  481. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Correlates and Treatments of Nightmares in Adults; section on treatments is about halfway down the page.

    Effect of illicit recreational drugs upon sleep; following what Chas mentioned, cannabis at bedtime can reduce REM sleep. Google shows a lot of users reporting that they have few or no dreams.

    Possible side effects and contraindications for everything, so talk to a doctor.

    Also, even if we are strangers, I prefer a world in which strangers can share their problems

  482. Walton says

    I want coffee.
    *growl*

    I sympathize. Sadly, I’ve been unable to drink much coffee lately, since it’s started to irritate my digestion. :-(

  484. thunk, safe behind a toasty heat shield says

    Daisy Cutter:

    Whoops, I fucked up.

    I should replace that with light tan. I meant the color “cream”. Herp derp, full apologies.

  488. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Walton, I get an upset stomach from it too, but I can’t really quit. The most I could do was to cut back in an effort to reduce the heart palpitations.

  489. Ogvorbis says

    I appreciate the support and encouragement.

    I just feel weird telling about this pseudonymously when those closest to me in meatspace don’t know, y’know?

    [Trigger Warning]

    I figure I’ll give things another week or so and, if I’m still panicky over the sight or thought of a certain type of camera I’ll make an appointment with a psychiatrist I saw in the past. I have seen professionals to discuss, and learn coping strategies for, the olfactory hallucinations and olfactory-induced panic attacks. I figured that what worked for one set of failures would work for another and, for the most part, it has. When I see a man using an older, large body single lense reflex film camera to photograph a child, I panic, a flashback (not even sure if that’s what it is but I lack the vocabulary for this stuff) begins but is cut off, and I end up ‘surfing’ the panic — like being at the beach and being lifted off your feet by a large wave: the wave moves your body as it passes, but it doesn’t change where you are (hey, don’t laugh, imagining it that way works really well for me). I can be aware of the physical sensations of the panic — sweating, elevated respiration, short-term confusion, looking for ways to leave — without succumbing to the full mental panic.

    And a big part of this is toxic masculinity (not sure who used that phrase the other day, but it is fucking brilliant!). I know that what my scout leader did was his choice and it was not my fault. But there is always a big part of my brain (well, not my brain, but rather the thought patterns and memories imprinted within the electrochemical processes that are me) is telling me that men/boys don’t get raped so it was my fault and I need to ‘man up’, ignore it, put it behind me, and deal with it like a man. And, oddly, accepting that it was my fault worked for about 35 years.

    I’m just rambling now (obviously), but I wonder why a successful coping strategy, a successful denial strategy, stops working? I mean, burying worked for most of my life so why not now? What changed? What did I do (I typed ‘wrong’ on the end of that and went back and removed it (my Freudian slip is showing, eh?))?

    So thanks to all for your input and, most of all, for a nonjudgemental place for me to dump my failures. Much appreciated.

  490. says

    Ogvorbis, a lot of sedatives and pain meds suppress REM sleep, so they suppress dreams. That’s how I get by – without those meds, I don’t sleep. I can’t cope with dreaming of any kind.

    If you smoke enough pot, it will go to dream suppression. A little might not work or have the opposite effect. Of course, what with you working for the govt, this might not be the best idear.

    If you can hit a doctor up for help, see if you can get a scrip for Prazosin. It’s been helpful on dream suppression in PTSD. I think it’s actually for hypertension, though, so you definitely need a doc’s clearance.

  491. Pteryxx says

    Ogvorbis: seconding what carlie said so brilliantly.

    Having awful memories come back after decades is normal – it’s unpredictable and not directly attributable to any one thing the person’s done or hasn’t done. I think of it as a slow, subconscious learning process, like an erosion of the layers and walls of denial that formed to seal it off. Probably the environment of discussion and support contributes, but on a scale of years.

    Also, denying abuse by ‘being tough’ and minimizing it to oneself is so common, rather than looking for a reason for it, it makes more sense to just accept it as characteristic of the process. I’ve mentioned before a conversation I had with two friends where all of us, simultaneously, could see how *the other two* were definitely being abused while still excusing our own abuse as somehow beneath consideration. It’s a cognitive illusion like all the others, IMHO.

    This might be helpful (if disturbing) in recognizing the phenomenon – the writing of counter-terrorism expert Jessica Stern on realizing as an adult how her own childhood trauma decades earlier influenced her choice of career.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/books/30stern.html

    When she began investigating terrorism, by studying chemical weapons at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in the mid-’80s, her interest was thought to be “more than a little weird,” she recalled recently.

    “I think they thought I was nuts.”

    And at the time she thought the subject was just something she had fallen into. “But I now see that there’s a pattern,” she said, sitting in the white farmhouse, not far from the Harvard campus, where she lives with her third husband, Chester G. Atkins, a former Massachusetts congressman, and her 8-year-old son. “I’ve really been studying perpetrators and violence all my life.”

    How she came to this realization is the subject of her new book, “Denial: A Memoir of Terror,” which Ecco published last week. The book recounts how, in 1973, when Ms. Stern was 15, she and her younger sister were raped at gunpoint in their home in Concord, Mass.

    And this interview:

    http://www.theworld.org/2010/06/a-memoir-of-terror/

    SHARP: And what did you come to understand about how the terror you experienced affected you personally, and also how it shaped your interest in studying terrorists?

    STERN: Well in retrospect, it seems hard to believe that I wouldn’t realize that I was pursuing really cruel men, violent men and that I must have been trying to tame some terror that I wasn’t even aware that I felt. I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and, like many people who have PTSD, I disbelieved he diagnosis. That’s true also for veterans where the connection is even more obvious.

  494. says

    Sorry for being obvious.

    Ogvorbis, stuffing it down inside lets us function but we remain the walking wounded and sometimes that gets to be too much.

    I had a lot of improvement from something called a letting go group — small groups with 6-week to 8-week to 12-week enrolments to talk about it, remember it, forgive ourselves, feel it again, and let the pain drain away. It helped a lot. It also gave me an insight into how many cheerful, competent people are carrying around old pain. It doesn’t go away but it becomes much more bearable and, more important, more in the past.

    It was related to children of alcoholics / children from dysfunctional families concepts.

  495. Patricia, OM says

    I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and, like many people who have PTSD, I disbelieved the diagnosis. That’s true also for veterans where the connection is even more obvious.

    There’s a jewel of wisdom.

  497. onion girl, OM; social workers do it with paperwork says

    RHINEBECK 2012 UPDATE

    Hello, Hordelings! :) Just a quick update on Rhinebeck–things are progressing all according to plan (this is Phase 1 of our quest for total world domination, you know. Or Phase 42…can’t quite remember).

    We will be staying at the same hotel as last year, and our room block is already booked. For new folks, the hotel has suites of doubles & queens with a sofabed that include full kitchens with full-size fridge, microwave, dishes & glasses, etc, full free breakfast, free wifi & slightly over-size rooms for hanging out in.

    Friday night will be the check-in/pizza party, Saturday will be the festival (or other activities if you so choose!), Saturday night will be the fancy dress dinner at a local Italian restaurant, and Sunday will be brunch before we (sadly) depart! There’s an option for folks to come up one day early on Thursday night but you will need to book that hotel stay separately.

    As stated earlier, the con fee is $350* (thought it is possible that may go down slightly depending on attendance); that includes all of your hotel costs**, pizza party, Rhinebeck festival fee, and Sunday brunch. The only thing not covered is your transportation, lunch at the festival (maple sugar cotton candy & funnel cake! Deep-fried things on sticks! Local cheese & meat ((bacon!)) delights!), dinner Saturday night, and any sheep-related purchases. ;)

    There’s a Rhinebeck mailing list and everyone who filled out the registration form will get that information soon; that will cover the planning for car-pooling, roommates, etc. If you’re interested in coming and haven’t filled out the registration form, please do so now! More info to follow; email Muse, Mattir & myself at the Rhinebeck email address with questions!

    *We are being complete godless socialists by having everyone pay into the big pot to cover costs; we also may be able to help some folks out financially to sponsor their attendance. Anyone who wants to kick in a little extra to help out other folks who might be short is welcome to do so!

    **We have a paypal address that you can, if you like, send money to periodically in order to space out the fee–that way it will be paid before you even get there in October! :)

  499. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Prazosin is one of the medications mentioned in this first link, but there are many others. It might be better to email that study to the doctor prior to the appointment, rather than requesting a particular drug.

  500. Ogvorbis says

    Thanks, all.

    One frustrating thing is the discussions in my office regarding Paterno’s stature being torn down. No one disagrees, we all think it is the right thing to do — a statue of someone who enabled child rape? not good. But one coworker asked how it was supposed to help the children who were raped. Specifically, he stated that if something like that happens to a boy, how does he not kill himself? how could he ever get married or have kids? how could he be a normal human being? and on and on. I pointed out that most children who are raped or molested are affected by the experience but find ways of coping, or almost coping, with what happend through denial, blaming themselves, guilt, or medications. His response to that? “How would you know?” and I walked out.