Is there scientific™ term for premature portcullisification?
leobutchsays
I’m a huge fan of Megan Mullally and the Supreme Music Program. Their CD’s are among my favorites. (Big As a Berry often goes for hundreds on Ebay). I’d consider giving a testicle to see her cabaret act. She’s a musical chameleon, and I’ve never heard a better cover of “Danny Boy”.
By the way, is that the actor who plays Ron Swanson on “Parks and Recreation”?
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Portcullis’d!
And yes, I know I’m anthropomorphizing and that’s silly.
‘sokay, I anthropomorphize depression. I hate that sonofabitch.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
So, okay, poison shampoo has been applied and hair combed through. I combed Mr Kristinc’s, and he made a sorta-valiant attempt at combing mine but it ended up working better for me to comb it while he watched and made sure I didn’t miss any spots.
Prodigious amounts of laundry have been done (turned out to be a good time to decide what we can get rid of, after washing it of course; we have way more clothes and shit than we need.) The freezer is full of hand-crocheted hats, armwarmers, and specialty t-shirts I’m terrified to dry on high heat.
I’m reasonably sure Mr Kristinc and I are clean (we’ll keep checking). The one infested kid’s treatment period should be over tomorrow, and he just started scratching again. Argh. I hope it’s nothing.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
My internet connectivity issues continue apace.
And it is snowing. There’s already a good 3-4 inches, and it is expected to snow all night. Great.
I’m going to bed. *sulk*
Crudely Wrottsays
It may be noted that the Invisible, Purple, Fire Breathing, Flying Dragon that lives in the corner of the room just above and behind my right shoulder (up there by the ceiling) was watching as I played this video. It’s reaction? “Meh. Not too clever and not country enough. Needs a hook”.
And there you have it, folks, right from the dragon’s mouth.
Algernonsays
I anthropomorphize depression. I hate that sonofabitch.
I do too!
It really *feels* like an entity to me. I used to have a nightmare some times where this “stuff” would begin spilling into the room. Except it was not spilling at all, but rather it was some complete void and there would ultimately be no escape from it. It seemed almost smart, like a slime mold made of antimatter. And it knew where the fuck I was.
That’s how it seems to me. Irrational or poetic, your choice.
chigau (違う)says
I watched PZ’s video and was experiencing earworm.
Then I watched Benjamin Geiger’s linked video (Dixie Chicks) and was instantly cured.
It’s a miracle!
Watched for one minute and stopped. It’s like someone compressed all the asinine bits about fundies into four minutes of mental pain.
———————————-
My new MP3 player is growing on me. It’s smaller than the Fuze, but without the annoying touch controls of the Fuze+. I figure this Clip Zip will do until something better and a bit bigger comes along. No more gritting my teeth while Mom blares country music in the car.
———————————-
Well, the kid in kindergarten who was a total terror is not finishing out the year here. At first it seemed like a case of him just being too energetic and not knowing how to handle that, or maybe another kid who was just bored because he wasn’t being challenged enough. But now we realized he’s like his dad: a bully. Trying to stab people with pencils, bothering the other kids when they’re not doing a damned thing to piss him off, ramming his desk into another student’s, and not even caring when her fingers got caught and badly bruised. Really, he needs help, and it’s not the kind of help we can provide, as we don’t have the funding to afford a psychologist on staff. And if someone else’s child gets hurt because of him, who gets the blame? We do. How nice.
I predict that someday this boy’s going to meet someone who’s brave enough to stand up to him, or someone who’s just bigger and tougher, and he’ll get a rude wake-up call from reality . . . if he doesn’t somehow get himself killed first. I won’t miss him, honestly. He’s the second kid in my almost-three years at the school whom I will not miss seeing every day. In fact, I’ll be relieved when he doesn’t show up tomorrow, although explaining why he’s not around to the kids could be tough. Or not. We’ll see.
—————————————-
Guitar – My left ring finger is developing a pronounced dent in the tip as opposed to my other fingers. Might be due to me having to reach and press more with it than the others. But all my fingers now have nice roughened patch. I don’t know why, but it’s satisfying to touch those patches.
—————————————–
*raises glass to Korematsu*
I hope such a senseless act never happens again.
—————————————-
Remember how last summer I was seeing Phineas & Ferb every day? Now most days I’ve got the theme from Maya & Miguel in my head. So far neither character has appeared in my dreams, but should that happen, I’ll have to find something to purge with after work.
I anthropomorphize depression. I hate that sonofabitch.
Depression always seemed to me to be more of a force of nature, like a thick fog rolling in. Definitely something from outside myself, though.
What I do anthropomorphize is inanimate objects that don’t do what I tell them to do, feeb at critical moments, or in a few cases, hurt me. I had an electric shaver once that not only ripped whiskers out of my face, it made a weird noise and refused to work after I smacked it against the wall. Then it bounced up and hit me in, shall we say, a sensitive place when I threw it on the floor.
The scene ends with me holding onto the cord and swinging the shaver around the room smashing it against every available surface.
I know it’s not rational; it appears to be something I inherited from my mother. I once came home to find the rocking chair in splinters on the floor, and I never found out what it did to piss her off so.
Somewhere, in a landfill not so far away, lie the remains of a coffee maker…
I’m not going to watch it. I’m so pissed of at Pennsylvania declaring 1012 “The Year of The Bible” that I want to throw up until there’s nothing left but bitter bile.
Kristinc @5
I feel for you, my dear. We went through that routine several times with five children – four of them girls with long, thick hair. I’m so glad that they are all adults now!
Have a very big glass of wine tonight.
chigau (違う)says
Y’all really should watch the whole video.
trust me
Bah, I’ll take the Chinese New Year over “Year of the Bible.” Because dragons are cool, and probably wiser and more fun to be around.
Eskeptrical Engineersays
leobutch @3
Yes, that’s Ron Swanson. Nick Offerman and Megan Mullaly are actually married in real life, which gives the Ron and Tammy relationship on the show a new spin!
Ichthyicsays
Pennsylvania declaring 1012 “The Year of The Bible”
I was gonna say…
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Depression seems to me like a trickster spirit telling me lies. Only, of course, the danger is that when I’m in a depressive period, it sounds very much like the truth. My mother once told me that I remind her of that Red Dwarf episode where all the crew are hallucinating lives filled with their worst fears because some malignant alien is trying to get them to kill themselves.
Oh, anthropomorphizing inanimate objects. My ipod, power drill, chop saw, sewing machine and stand mixer all have names, so no, of course I would never do that.
Crudely Wrottsays
Because dragons are cool, and probably wiser and more fun to be around.
Oh my, yes.
Ichthyicsays
*watches video at top*
Stick an American Flag in it, it’s done.
chigau (違う)says
Is intermittent, single-word dyslexia possible?
All day, when I see the word “Islam” I read “salami”.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
My parole officer is soooo proud of me
Crudely Wrottsays
There is an old Stooges line that sort of goes like, “Salam, salami, baloney”.
My profile thus far today, dragons and stooges. No, I have no excuse, just a wide grin.
Crudely Wrottsays
My parole officer is soooo proud of me
What did you do this time, Rev?
Algernonsays
Depression seems to me like a trickster spirit telling me lies. Only, of course, the danger is that when I’m in a depressive period, it sounds very much like the truth.
Oh my, that is what I see my paranoia and anxiety as. It’s more upsetting to me than depression. Depression won’t lose me my job, though it might end my life if I can’t recognize it in time. But I get these horrible periods where the information coming in is just.. skewed. I’ve found that a heavy dose of anti-anxiety meds, and r*talin can shove me through it some times at least enough not to “show” at work, etc. It is amazing to me though, how clear it becomes that it is a disorder when you do that.
I mean, I can go from truly “seeing” only the horrible to seeing opportunity in minutes that way. But it is so completely real. That’s what is sad. Or rather what is sad to me is that I realize that I am perceiving reality in both states. There is some truth, at least in my case because I do not and never have had truly delusional experiences, to both… but the ability to *use* that effectively is jammed. And it does, indeed, seem like “something” has gotten my ear.
To me it kind of helps to think of it anthropomorphically then. Even if it is just a tool I create whereby I imagine to justify the inexplicable shifts in consciousness.
It also makes it hard though because it has led to me doubting myself when my perceptions were highly accurate. What I’ve come to realize is that no matter what my perceptions are actually highly accurate. It’s my ability to understand the *significance* of those perceptions that gets messed up some times.
LOL, looks like I didn’t move fast enough to keep the first post from going up. Oh well, minor misspelling, not too horrible.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
But it is so completely real. That’s what is sad. Or rather what is sad to me is that I realize that I am perceiving reality in both states.
Yes, that’s exactly it. I don’t know to what degree my anxiety and my depression are intertwined, but I know that in many ways my life really does objectively suck and present huge barriers to me ever finding my way to a better place. I know it’s untrue that anybody! can improve their life! if they just want to! enough! (did the cheerleader come through in those exclamation points?) and I know that many people simply slip through the cracks and fail to ever be happy because of the barriers present to them.
So, when my depression “whispers” those things to me, it’s very hard to dismiss them. That used to be my favored method of dealing with depression, simply keeping the mindset that anything depression tells me must be a lie. But the more life experience I have and the better a critical thinker I become, the harder it actually gets to talk myself out of hopeless depression thinking. In my case I’m untreated, so I don’t have the option of taking some meds and seeing if it looks better in the morning.
Crudely Wrottsays
Algernon:
What I’ve come to realize is that no matter what my perceptions are actually highly accurate. It’s my ability to understand the *significance* of those perceptions that gets messed up some times.
I haven’t dealt with such as you seem beleaguered by but I am struck by something in your worry. From time to time some deep dreads have visited me.
Might I assume that you have at least a couple of, for want of a better term, some sort of anchor, some talisman or a simple rote method of grounding yourself in reality? I would imagine that you do and I only mention this because at times in my life such concepts of a reliable and deeply rooted sanctuary have proved useful to me.
Hand holds. Footing. A place that provides good purchase. Bread crumb trail. String tied to the real world.
I’m not sure what the world seems like to you. I’m only reasonably sure what the world seems to me. But there have been times of long fear. My good fortune is that I always marked my trail on the way in and left some clues in order to find my way out should the need arise. That and a good mental map of the territory have been of great value.
I hope your way becomes easier as time passes. Clarity comes with time, that’s its big drawback.
Sir Shplane, Grand Mixmaster, Knight of the Turntablesays
So I just broke up with someone because she is more religious than I can handle.
I’m not actually sure why I’m saying that here, since I don’t give a shit about whether or not anyone sympathizes. Maybe I’m hoping we’ll have some discussion on the topic? That would be cool.
Who here thinks I did the right thing?
sueficssays
I call Poe on that video. It would be too terrifying to be a true profession of faith.
chigau (違う)says
It’s a Joke!
Satire!
Everyone involved is a professional comedian!
Crudely Wrottsays
@Shplane,
Would you not have broken up with her had she been less religious?
If so, what level of religiosity would not be too much?
I ask not flippantly but because I am in a situation that has some similarities along with some deeply embedded complications that stubbornly persist.
That said, I submit that there is no “right thing” to do in any situation. Rather, there is a set of options that can accomplish something like a “right outcome” in any given situation. Depending on your point of view and whether you have an ox being gored or an iron in the fire or money in the pot or your eternal soul hanging in the balance. Or just a casual interest . . .
Algernonsays
I would imagine that you do and I only mention this because at times in my life such concepts of a reliable and deeply rooted sanctuary have proved useful to me.
Hand holds. Footing. A place that provides good purchase. Bread crumb trail. String tied to the real world.
More and more as of late, but in the past not at all. I do think that while KristinC is right that one can’t just “decide” to think themselves into a better place, that generating changes can help. The real kicker is that if your ability to recognize opportunity is fucked up… how do you improve things?
For me, finding people to whom I can openly confess my mental state as a mental state has helped tremendously in sorting out the best way to use the information coming in, and separate it from the triggered areas that are not useful to me. But finding and trusting people is so hard I can easily see it being a non-option too. I think on some level though, yes, if it weren’t as you say I wouldn’t be capable of creating the anthropomorphism of disorder. Because, if one has a strong enough concept of self then one can perceive this as an “other” even on a conversational level as a way to describe the sensation. This indicates a connection with “reality” or at least a more healthy version of the self; because without that connection, there can not even be a sense of “self” to be taken over, influenced, or hurt.
One other thing I’ve come to realize though is that releasing the concept of dichotomies has been helpful for me. Instead of splitting people/actions/motivations/events/concepts of self/etc into a hard decision where I have to “reject” one or the other, with enough effort and security one can actually form a more whole and accurate picture. Hyper-vigilance is a useful tool if you can figure out how to use it.
Dancing Buildings: Those are the actual architects of the buildings are depicted by the suites that they are wearing.
@ Alethea
One might have expected jijjouweren?
That would be far too familiar!
Algernonsays
So I just broke up with someone because she is more religious than I can handle…
Who here thinks I did the right thing?
I do. Because you said “than I can handle” and that is all you need.
It doesn’t matter if some one else could handle it, after all. There’s no reason on earth you should ever be in a relationship with anyone who is more or less anything than you “can handle” after all.
Algernonsays
Some times I look at my post and *wish* there were an opportunity to edit it. I have an annoying habit in typing whereby I repeat phrases several times. I don’t do this when I speak, and when I take time to edit what I write, I usually fix it.
But when chatting online I often do not catch it until after I smack down that submit button.
Akira MacKenziesays
I anthropomorphize depression. I hate that sonofabitch.
I tend to use literary allusions myself. I ‘m Mr. Hyde when I’m manic and I’m Hamlet when I’m feeling depressed. When I’m manic, I get really megalomaniacal. I start to imagine myself as ultimate-kick-ass-savior-of-the-world. I’m always “right” and I don’t care what happens to the people who are “wrong.” In fact, I want to see those capitalist, religionist bastards suffering or, better yet, dead. If only people would listen to me and take my obvious genius seriously, then the world would change for the better and I would be the hero!
HOORAY ME!!!!!
On the other hand…
When I’m depressed, I’m human shit. No one loves me. I’m fat. I’m ugly. I’m stupid. No woman would ever want me. I’ll never find a descent job. I’ll never make enough money to be independent of my guilt-tripping, Cat-lick, Rethuglican father. When he dies, I’ll be lucky to end up living in a cardboard box. I’d tuck a pistol under my chin and stop prolonging the inevitable, but I don’t want to give my bastard father or my mother’s fundy relations the satisfaction of confirming their stereotype that atheists living depressing, joyless lives where suicide is the ultimate result. I live only to spite them, if you want to call that “living.”
FUCK ME! AND FUCK THE WHOLE WORLD TOO!!!!
And since I’m a rapid-cylcer, I get to teeter-tooter back and forth between these states a few times a month–Hell, a few times a week on occasion. Sounds like fun, doesn’t it?
Rey Foxsays
Who here thinks I did the right thing?
Not really enough evidence presented to render a judgement in this particular case.
Also, a fly went into my mouth. I guess that’s all right since the whole fly was in there, but still.
Just make sure to eat both wings.
Crudely Wrottsays
Algernon asks,
The real kicker is that if your ability to recognize opportunity is fucked up… how do you improve things?
Opportunity is a rather constant condition, I think. That is, I’ve been able to walk away from situations with unexpected profit as well as unwelcome concern when neither were obvious. Perhaps I’m influenced by the inner notion that life is really pretty cool and people are mostly friendly, often entertaining and sometimes instructive.
If so, life in general is very hard to improve upon except for the added value that a single person, say, you or I, can provide. There is always room for that kind of contribution. Each of us are capable (I keep telling myself) and history testifies to the long range effects of individual efforts that endure long after the passion of the times has cooled and been forgotten.
Looks like it was a good night to decide to join TET. I got fired today partly because of my symptoms of depression (which I anthropomorphize as a cheeky little velociraptor; a nod to the idea that my decision-making skills are being hijacked by the ‘lizard brain’). I’m medicated and therapied but still fucking up in ways that, as mentioned above, really do make life shitty.
Also, thought it would be a grand plan to come out to my family as atheist; I was informed that I was disparaging those who love me by referring to religion as ‘a cognitive dissonance in the intelligent believer’s mind.’ Lots to think about.
I may be an omnivore but not that much omni. U-uuulp.
John Moralessays
Phledge:
I got fired today partly because of my symptoms of depression
Here in Oz, that would likely be problematic for your employer, should you decide to chase that up.
Also, thought it would be a grand plan to come out to my family as atheist; I was informed that I was disparaging those who love me by referring to religion as ‘a cognitive dissonance in the intelligent believer’s mind.’
Seems to me that you were informed that someone claims to believe that is the case.
Good morning
Last night, my daughter went to sleep sitting upright in a laundry basket with her head firmly supported by both hands while her bed was full of toys.
Don’t ask me.
I figured out that it was no use getting in a fight over this and just put her into her bed after I tok her for her pee.
How do you call an athropomorphised creature that keeps you from getting off your ass to do the things you need and want to do and then comes back to haunt you with a bad conscience so you put any thought of your failure to do the task and the task itself so much to the back of your mind that your sense of failure grows quicker than moss takes over a lwan?
Phledgesays
Thanks, John. The odd thing about losing my job is that I was working for a friend, and I’d been missing work on the days where I just could. Not. Cope. It’s really not her fault that I wasn’t able to rise to her needs. And just like Giliell, the failure is crushing me.
As far as the family goes, this is not the first time I’ve been at odds against them; only it’s the first time I’ve challenged their sense of self and their relative intelligence. Which reminds me: anyone have a good recommendation for an “atheist virgin” book? My little brother is a bright but braindouched godbot who’s willing to read one, ONE book if I send it to him. He’s not ready for Dawkins or Hitch anytime soon, methinks, but is there a concise, well-written volume that would start the wheels turning?
He’s not ready for Dawkins or Hitch anytime soon, methinks, but is there a concise, well-written volume that would start the wheels turning?
Oh, I don’t know – Dawkins’s The God Delusion is written for the lay person and is very basic, covers all the main goddist arguments.
Phledgesays
Thanks for the welcome, Caine. I really liked The God Delusion but I was almost completely free of any religious restraints at that time so I thought it was just easy for me to read because of where my mind was at the time. I’ll try it with him, thanks. Note that he’s sending me The Reason for God by Timothy Keller, and I’ve agreed to read it. I’m willing to look at one source of nonsense apologia for a family member. :)
I really liked The God Delusion but I was almost completely free of any religious restraints at that time so I thought it was just easy for me to read because of where my mind was at the time.
I see. I read it as an atheist and so did Mister and we both thought it was very basic and simple, as we had figured out all that stuff years before. I think it might at least be thought provoking for a theist.
Hold off on a decision for a few days, I’m sure other recommendations will be coming in from the rest of the horde.
-So, in theory, we could introduce compulsory neuro-imaging of political candidates to find out beforehand if they are sellouts on various issues.
Would have been nice to have applied this in the Democrat primaries a few years ago…
“Scientists discover new clue to the chemical origins of life”
Studies like that only create more gaps. More gaps only give GAWD ™ more places to hide out in. (Did you read the comments? Holy fuck … the goddists pull in like sharks to chum. If they are reading science blogs, how is it that they never gain a clue?)
well, that’s interesting. looks like other people experience depression completely differently from the way I experience it. For one, I don’t anthropomorphize or externalize it, it feels entirely internal (maybe because it only ever varies between slightly bad and horrible; I’ve no idea what “non-depressed” feels like); and two, it neither screws with my self-perception (I still know I’m intelligent; and lovable; and even relatively good-looking, despite becoming increasingly fat (90kg as of today *blecch*) nor with my ability to see opportunities to achieve things and goals; rather, it makes anything I could possibly achieve feel about as significant/fulfilling than finishing a quest in WoW. Meaning, all this opportunity and ability I have, I can only use to reduce the nastiness of the depression. But nothing about my life now or about any possible futures really seems quite “worth living for”. For example, maintaining a 4.0 GPA is a goal of sorts, and it keeps me distracted enough for now, but once over, all I get out of this is a summa cum laude I can hang on my wall. pretty meaningless and pointless, ultimately. and I feel the same with any other “goal” I can imagine trying for, and as a result my life feels like me trying to distract myself long enough until I die of natural causes
Very interesting discussions/impressions of how people see depression. It has been a long time since I really looked at mine as opposed to dealing with it. Thanks to all for being open and providing food for thought. Relatively recently I have realized that there were two interrelated, but still semi-distinct parts to my depression: First, what I call the, for want of a better word, normal depression to which I am prone, and; second, the depression following my last wife’s suicide. It has been useful for me to separate them, at least somewhat. Notably, the separation has allowed me to start to lose the anger at her suicide. The anger was pretty much the last stumbling block to acceptance of the fact.
Hmmm, rereading my last, it appears I have been working and looking at my depression. Odd how one sometimes does not see the very obvious.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
Does it count if I don’t actually have depression diagnosed, but I don’t see what else the deep pit I’m in could possibly be?
I’ve fucked up my grades and I feel like my degree means nothing. My skills are nearly nonexistent and I don’t have good enough grades to get a job out of this country (or in it, for that matter). I tried to do better, but each failure just proved that I’m not good enough. And then I would stop trying. If I’m going to fail, what’s the point, right? Maybe I’m not as stupid as I currently think I am, but contemplating that makes me despair even more because that would mean I could have done better if only I wasn’t such a fuck-up. Which makes everything my own fault and another reason to hate myself.
I have a job shifting papers that will end in two weeks. After that… I have no idea what I’ll do. I live with my parents and they don’t mind supporting me until I find a job, but Ineither can nor want to live like that forever.
I don’t have many friends. One moved back home (6-hour drive from here) and we’ll se each other when she finds time to visit. The other currently has a lot of health problems in the family and I can’texpect her to listen to my whinging. Other people I’m not close enough to to confide in.
I’ve taken learning french and it kept me afloat for a while (goal setting Jadehawk mentions). But now I’m not satisfied with my progress and the whole thing where I can’t talk to people is a big part of it. Talking to someone I don’t know is difficult and doing it in a language I’m not fluent in makes me all flustered and useless.
I’m not even going to start about relationships. I don’t think that’s even a possiblity for me. I’m way too good in driving people away if they by some chance take an interest in me.
It definitelly feels internal, whether it’s a depression or something else. Getting my master’s degree was a goal that kept me going for a while, but now I have nothing but disappointment in my own incompetence.
Navelglazing to follow, don’t read if you don’t want to.
Hmm, I don’t think I’m depressed, although at times I am very down.
I just can’t cope with some type of freedom, which is the freedom to postpone things.
Looking back, that has always been a problem, but not that bad since the freedom was very restricted.
I never needed to force myself to do things I didn’t like in my free time during my schooldays. I just went there and everything was fine. I can totally function under pressure, in fact, I function best under pressure. If I have to be somewhere at 14:00, I’ll be there, if I have to finish something by next week I’ll do it, only when I can postpone things I end up in trouble, abd it has led to the point where I postponed getting my degree to a point it became a spectacular failure and every time I postpone things they become shamefull so I avoid them.
Yes, my counsellor was impressed when I said that I manage not to think about college, or making a phone call for a whole week and by “not think” I really mean “not think”.
Well, cry over spilled milk.
I don’t hate my life.
I don’t hate myself.
I know I can do things, and I even know that I do have a talent for teaching and I like it. I like it when I see people making progress.
New plan: Since I don’t function without a timetable, I make one myself for every day. So far I’ve kept it for today.
Navelglazing, sorry.
machintelligencesays
Phledge @ 51
Let me be the first to recommend Red Neck, Blue Collar Atheist by Hank Fox. It is written in a folksy style which makes its beautifully argued assertions and masterful metaphors hit all the harder. You can read a few chapters on his blog, but you will have to scroll back to Oct. 11 2011 to see them.
Is anyone else as against this as I am? I can’t believe this is getting so much support, most recently by that clown Boris Johnson.
Where’s the line I can queue for smacking them?
Yes, surely, hitting your children is the way to teach them that violence is not the answer to conflicts.
Did I mention that the words “parental rights” need to be purged from the vocabulary?
Private Ogvorbis, OMsays
Is there scientific™ term for premature portcullisification?
Well, I hear there are some medications which can keep it up longer (though if it lasts for more than four hours . . .).
I’m reasonably sure Mr Kristinc and I are clean (we’ll keep checking). The one infested kid’s treatment period should be over tomorrow, and he just started scratching again. Argh. I hope it’s nothing
You will all (trust me, been there) have the dreaded phantom itch for the next six months. (and as I write this, my scalp just began to itch . . .).
Pennsylvania declaring 1012 “The Year of The Bible”
Does this mean that people will actually read the verdammkt thing and realize that it has absolutely no relevence to 21st century life? Well, aside from the parts about murder, rape, child abuse, misogyny, smitings and smotings?
Is intermittent, single-word dyslexia possible?
All day, when I see the word “Islam” I read “salami”.
Mayhap you are just hungry?
But remember, sometimes a salami is just a salami (except when it isn’t, of course).
I anthropomorphize depression.
I do, too. Depression is the bully (not the one who was in PTI’s class) who keeps picking and picking and picking until I react and when I react, I know it is my choice to react and is thus my fault. I can tell when I am entering a depressive episode when I start reacting to everyone around me as if they are attacking me. Depression is a bully who alters my perception of the world and whispers in my ear that they are lying, they are out to get me, they are secretly laughing at me behind my back. The bully tells me that no matter what I do I will fail. And everyone will know.
Oddly, my horrible dreams from ten years ago do not seem to coincide with depressive episodes. They seem to result more from specific external stimuli of smell. Depression, however, is that fucking bully who is hanging over my shoulder, filtering everything anyone says to me.
And that was far more than I intended to type, but what the hell, right?
I may be an omnivore
Oddly, I passed a Dodge Omni which was broken down on the side of the freeway. One of the car’s front wheels was 200 yards further up the shoulder.
If they are reading science blogs, how is it that they never gain a clue?
They do not read for content, they read for discrete quotes which can be used to butress their pre-concieved notions.
Does it count if I don’t actually have depression diagnosed, but I don’t see what else the deep pit I’m in could possibly be?
— — — — — — —
“If they are reading science blogs, how is it that they never gain a clue?”
Presumably they only read the bits that in a superficial reading seem to support their beliefs. Just like the way too many read the political articles in the newspapers & blogs. Those who actually read newspapers & blogs.
— — — — —
Pennsylvania declaring 1012 “The Year of The Bible”
WIN!
— — — — — —
The concept of dragons was probably inspired by the findings of big dinosaur fossils. So dragons are cool whether you consider them symbolically or literally.
waltonsays
Not enough time to catch up with everything, but…
Ugh, here in the UK there is a call for our laws on smacking your children to be relaxed, essentially giving parents protection under law for violence against their own kids.
Is anyone else as against this as I am? I can’t believe this is getting so much support, most recently by that clown Boris Johnson.
I strongly oppose it. The defence of “reasonable chastisement” should have been scrapped years ago, and “corporal punishment” outlawed completely, as it has been in some European countries. Inflicting violence on children in order to “punish” them is child-abuse, and there is evidence that it causes psychological damage in later life. Worse still, it inures them to violence, and teaches them that having power and control over someone else means having the right to inflict violence on them. That’s a toxic message.
Also, David Lammy is an idiot. As is Boris Johnson. Britain’s major parties are generally like Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
I got fired today partly because of my symptoms of depression
*hugs* That’s awful. What line of work are you in? And which country?
I’ve fucked up my grades and I feel like my degree means nothing. My skills are nearly nonexistent and I don’t have good enough grades to get a job out of this country (or in it, for that matter). I tried to do better, but each failure just proved that I’m not good enough. And then I would stop trying. If I’m going to fail, what’s the point, right? Maybe I’m not as stupid as I currently think I am, but contemplating that makes me despair even more because that would mean I could have done better if only I wasn’t such a fuck-up. Which makes everything my own fault and another reason to hate myself.
More *hugs*.
Private Ogvorbis, OMsays
Some districts in Russia and Uganda claimed a 100% turnout (of voters) and 100% of votes going to the winner…
Wasn’t there one district in Ohio that did that in the last Presidential election?
The concept of dragons was probably inspired by the findings of big dinosaur fossils.
As were giants. This comes much later (1676) but I seem to remember that the first dinosaur bone to be classified under the modern system was (and no, I am not googling this one) Scrotum humanae — the distal end of a femur. It really did look like a giant scrotum turned to stone.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
The concept of dragons was probably inspired by the findings of big dinosaur fossils. So dragons are cool whether you consider them symbolically or literally.
Being depressed sucks. It’s a physical feeling of malaise and exhaustion that I can’t shake no matter how hard I try. I need to talk to a gender counselor as soon as I can, but I’m scared to do so.
Being dehydrated sucks. Being dry so much that your throat, eyes, and lips are dry hurts. You can’t breathe, plus you’ve got a headache, you’re sore, and you’re tired.
Being depressed and dehydrated is the worst feeling I’ve had in a long time.
Loudsays
@walton #69
Inflicting violence on children in order to “punish” them is child-abuse, and there is evidence that it causes psychological damage in later life. Worse still, it inures them to violence, and teaches them that having power and control over someone else means having the right to inflict violence on them.
Good call. It’s ridiculous that a child would be less protected by law from violence than an adult would.
People are actually trying to say that if parents could discipline abuse their kids, then the London riots wouldn’t have taken place. Utter shit.
birgerjohanssonsays
Beatrice, also check out “Big cats and their fossil relatives”.
Beautifully illustrated.
— — — — —
Reading the thread about islamic non-science (hadith this and hadith that) made me recall the name Hastur, the rival of Ctulhu that lives on a world in the Hyades star cluster. Is there any way we can shoehorn him (it) into some contemporary religious narative? Like, inventing germ theory before microscopes, or whatever.
Pteryxxsays
Joining the Depression Front… oddly, the depression or whatever is the only part of my psyche I don’t anthropomorphize, or rather crittero-morphize. All my stomping, flapping, roaring mental menagerie goes away, and there’s just bleak silence full of unseen knives. I’ve been nicknaming it my “internal abuser” because it sounds exactly like the gaslighting he pushed on me, that nothing I liked or did or even was, mattered. I’m just trying to learn, during those times, to take it on faith that the rest of my self is loyal and will return.
I woke up to this story on NPR about ketamine for treatment-resistant depression. I wish there were more information therein on whether K is a one-shot or a long-term treatment, let alone side effects, contraindications, etc. Still, it’s interesting that here is yet another bad, bad “recreational drug” that can help the deeply depressed when pharmaceuticals fail.
The comment thread is drawing the self-righteous “natchurrrraaaaal” scolds who consider any sort of psych medication inherently bad. Yep, I’ve had something like 15 years of therapy total in my life, I take SSRIs so I can work and pay taxes and all that shit, and that makes me a “cheater” looking for the “easy way out.” Fucking puritanical douchemops.
I don’t anthropomorphize my depression at all. I don’t tend to anthropomorphize things. I like the fact that things are things, not additional sentient beings that I would have to cultivate relationships with. That would be exhausting.
I’m sorry you lost your job, Phledge. It sucks especially that it was with a friend. I hope you manage to maintain your friendship with her.
Pteryxxsays
@Giliell: I have what I call an “autoforgetting” function. It works best on anything related to trauma or progress. ~;>
Also, “navelglazing” makes me smile and think of Zen-like contemplation of donut holes.
waltonsays
Katherine,
Being depressed and dehydrated is the worst feeling I’ve had in a long time.
Inflicting violence on children in order to “punish” them is child-abuse, and there is evidence that it causes psychological damage in later life. Worse still, it inures them to violence, and teaches them that having power and control over someone else means having the right to inflict violence on them.
I was pretty lucky when I was a kid. The worst I’d get was the “wooden spoon” from my mother, but she never hit very hard.
One incident I will never forget was when I was in primary school (I think the equivalent in the US is “elementary school”). Apparently I did something bad, and was sent to the principal’s office. All the kids in the school knew that the principal had a massive walking cane that he kept inside his office, and I noticed it leaning against the wall as I walked in the room. I remember seeing him tower over me, asking me what I did (as if he didn’t know), and how I told him I was sorry. As I was talking he walked slowly to the other side of the room, picked up the cane and walked back in front of me, holding it behind his back. I was shitting bricks. I pleaded with him not to hit me with it, several times. Eventually, he put it back in its place against the wall. I am getting chills just writing about it here.
To be honest, I now think that it was only an empty threat. I don’t really believe anymore that he actually hit anyone with that thing. But I still think that it’s a kind of psychological torture.
Pteryxxsays
How do you call an athropomorphised creature that keeps you from getting off your ass to do the things you need and want to do and then comes back to haunt you with a bad conscience so you put any thought of your failure to do the task and the task itself so much to the back of your mind that your sense of failure grows quicker than moss takes over a lwan?
Aw, but the image is safe. It’s just the lizard Oglaf uses to sell books. “Buyer’s Remooooorse!” (Also, ‘e sells plushie Cumsprites. ♥ )
Personally, I think the cumsprites are kind of… context-specific. I’d LOVE to live in a world where someone’s orgasm was marked by a little spray of fireworks, and they (and whoever they were with, if any) walked around with sparkles floating around their head for the next day. I’d smile and give them a thumbs-up.
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Imagine it on a shelf next to one of these…
waltonsays
How do you call an athropomorphised creature that keeps you from getting off your ass to do the things you need and want to do and then comes back to haunt you with a bad conscience so you put any thought of your failure to do the task and the task itself so much to the back of your mind that your sense of failure grows quicker than moss takes over a lwan?
I get this feeling often, FWIW.
====
I was pretty lucky when I was a kid. The worst I’d get was the “wooden spoon” from my mother, but she never hit very hard.
I was never hit by anyone at all when I was a child. It wasn’t something that my parents would ever have even considered doing, and it wouldn’t even have occurred to me that it was legal for them to do so (though I later learned that the defence of “reasonable chastisement” still technically exists in English law, although it’s very limited). And in schools it has been illegal in England since 1987. (I was born in ’89.) When I was eleven or twelve, I can remember a temporary teacher we had, who was from Montserrat and an extremely devout Christian, being fired because she slapped a student (apparently; I didn’t see it myself).
Appallingly, in the US, I gather that “spanking” children in schools and the home is still legal and normal in many places, especially in the South. This is astonishing and horrifying to me.
I got the wooden spoon from my mom when I was bad. Even at a young age I was smart enough to act like it was the worst thing ever even though she would barely tap it; my sister would say baffling smart-aleck things like “that didn’t hurt” and she would get toys or TV priveleges removed.
Thinking about this actually reminds me of an example of the danger of religious patriarchy: my mother only did the wooden spoon to appease my dad, who believed in capital punishment and would actually spank us if my mom wasn’t around to do the wooden spoon. She couldn’t tell him that she didn’t want to do physical punishments because she was supposed to submit to her husband.
Some time after they divorced she finally felt comfortable telling me about some of the things they disagreed on and I got a better sense of how much my mom was looking out for me; looking back I can think of a lot of times she could have been a lot less miserable if it weren’t for her religious rules preventing her from opening her mouth.
You know, the fashion industry has figured out that some women are smaller than average, and has created “petite” clothing for us. This makes my life a lot easier.
At the moment, I would really appreciate it if the pharmaceutical industry would figure out something similar. It would be nice if a doctor could look at me and say, “Hmm, she’s short and small. Maybe she should get a lower dose of drugs. I’ll give her the petite version.”
But no. Instead, I’m at home waiting to be sure that I’m done puking, because the lowest available dose of birth control pills that might help my acne is still way too high a dose for me and my body thinks it has morning sickness.
*******
On a brighter note, I’m almost done the revised version of The Paper That Does Not Die. One week to go, and then I can submit it and think about something else for a while.
I’ve had doctors tell me repeatedly that drugs don’t work that way. Supposedly doses are completely independent of body mass. Never mind that the standard doses of many drugs simply don’t work on my 350 lb ass.
Pteryxxsays
Appallingly, in the US, I gather that “spanking” children in schools and the home is still legal and normal in many places, especially in the South. This is astonishing and horrifying to me.
Here in Texas, there’s a Christian radio station (next to NPR) that I’ve heard describe how parents MUST hit the child as severely as it takes to make them obey, or else the parents will be responsible for their own child’s damnation. Also, God will guide their hands to ensure the kid doesn’t die. I wish I’d had the stomach to tape it.
ibyeasays
Dang I hate physical punishment. Especially because I was at the receiving end of it when I was a kid. Stupid Korean culture thing. It got me a gigantic bruise on the entire length of my my lower leg once. Thankfully, my parents don’t do that kind of things anymore, otherwise my sister would have been the victim of it.
Pteryxxsays
@Nutmeg (with sympathy): are they the kind of pills you could cut in half, to teeny-ize the dose?
Loudsays
@Pteryxx #93
Here in Texas, there’s a Christian radio station (next to NPR) that I’ve heard describe how parents MUST hit the child as severely as it takes to make them obey, or else the parents will be responsible for their own child’s damnation.
That’s sickening :(
Religious bullshit aside, here in the UK this proposed legislation does leave a massive grey area for the hitter to exploit. How much is too much? Do you hit harder for more severe behaviour? It’s just so wrong.
Rey Foxsays
Perhaps I’m being needlessly pedantic here (but if I can’t here, then where can I be?), but “anthropomorphizing” specifically means imparting human characteristics onto things. I think most of these examples only work if agency is considered as strictly a human trait. Unfortunately, I don’t have a better word to use.
People are actually trying to say that if parents could discipline abuse their kids, then the London riots wouldn’t have taken place.
I wonder if any of those people would have liked to walk the streets of London in the 1800’s.
Pteryxxsays
Perhaps I’m being needlessly pedantic here (but if I can’t here, then where can I be?), but “anthropomorphizing” specifically means imparting human characteristics onto things. I think most of these examples only work if agency is considered as strictly a human trait. Unfortunately, I don’t have a better word to use.
Personification?
(Also, if y’all get needlessly pedantic about the question “Can we be needlessly pedantic here?” won’t you get into an infinite pedanticity loop? <_< )
chigau (違う)says
Wouldn’t using violence to “correct” children’s behaviour teach them that violence is the way to “correct” anyone’s behaviour?
Rey Foxsays
won’t you get into an infinite pedanticity loop?
Well, I don’t know, that depends on what you mean by “infinite”, and anyway, the Second Law of Thermodynamics would mean that…help!
It is far easier to convince a child that there is a hell, because it’s inherently easier to scare the shit out of little kids by just making stuff up. Tell an adult that there’s a monster under the bed or in the closet and they will look at you like your nuts. Tell a child the same thing and you will find yourself a few years down the road wishing your health insurance had better coverage for therapy.
Warning a child about the dangers of rabid dogs, nefarious strangers, getting lost or what can happen if they dart out into traffic are all part of a parent’s responsibility to protect their kids. Warning a child about an invisible monster who is always out to hurt or kill them in the most horrible ways, is incredibly sneaky, lurks around every corner and is more powerful than any adult – even mom and dad – is not only irresponsible parenting, but borders on child abuse.
Nutmegsays
Yeah, it baffles me that doctors don’t always consider body mass. My mom is small like me and she’s gotten lots of over-prescriptions over the years. This isn’t the first for me, either.
I could try to cut them in half and gradually scale up the dose, but I think I’ll just give up. I was trying the birth control pills as a supplement to my ultra-heavy-duty acne meds. This was my second attempt – last time, a few months ago, they just made me really nauseous and moody, and I gave up after a few days. It’s annoying, because the lower-dose pills don’t work for me anymore. So if I ever actually meet a guy I want to sleep with, I’ll have to get an IUD, which will probably also be made for someone bigger than me.
Oh well. Breakfast stayed down, so I’ll be off to the lab soon.
*****
On anthropomorphization: I’m lucky not to suffer from anything worse than a very mild case of winter blues, which I don’t personify. I do tend to personify the good side of me, the side that fights off those feelings. To me, it seems like a semi-distinct personality inside of me, one that’s more intuitive and realistic. It makes itself known primarily through snarky but encouraging thoughts, and somehow seems a bit more “male” than my regular internal monologue. Sometimes I picture it fighting off the blues with a large club. Irrational, but effective.
waltonsays
Wouldn’t using violence to “correct” children’s behaviour teach them that violence is the way to “correct” anyone’s behaviour?
QFT
cicely (Now With 37.5% Less Fleem!!)says
So I just broke up with someone because she is more religious than I can handle.
[…]
Who here thinks I did the right thing?
If she’s more religious than you can handle now, is it likely that it’d be easier to handle with more time and emotion invested in the relationship? Probably not. I think, better to end it now, if it is truly an intractable incompatibility.
–
Welcome in, Phledge and antidenialism.
–
I always visualised my depression as my thoughts and self circling a drain, in constant danger of going down, *slorrrrp!* There is no “up”, there is no light and no color; just grays shading to black. It was almost impossible to fall asleep for the feelings of uselessness and hopelessness, but once asleep, I was extremely reluctant to wake up and drag myself through another bleak, joyless day; even the bad dreams seemed like a better bet.
– *hugs* all ’round.
–
I got the wooden spoon, too. The trend in striking implements is darkly funny.
***
I mentioned Max Blumenthal’s book Republican Gomorrah (super cheap for Kindle, in the US at least) a few weeks ago. A good part of it deals with James Dobson and how his ideas about violence towards children have shaped the Religious Right. Here’s an interview with him about the book. He starts talking about Dobson shortly after the 30-minute mark.
Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhDsays
I don’t externalise as such, but when I am down I often have the perception of ‘rational’ me observing the things I am doing and thinking and saying, and knowing that they are counterproductive and not helpful, but if very down not able to affect those things. I don’t get too bad episodes, certainly not in recent years, but when I do get them I find the knowledge that it will pass a comfort.
Predator Handshakesays
cicely @104: I know what you mean about the depressive sleep. I remember vividly the awful way I was in one night toward the end of my junior year of college: I was supposed to go work on my engineering lab project (my group was making a turbine flow meter) and normally I would have been super excited about getting a little stoned and playing around with pipes and tools and glue. Instead of doing all that, I decided to go take a nap at 7pm to escape the feelings of dread I was having.
There was a Dr. Steve Brule sketch that reminded me of this where he says “go to bed early, ya doofus, cause when you’re sleeping there’s no lonely times, just dreams.” That characterizes what my depressive state was like pretty well: knowing that I needed to do something and getting a little stressed about it, then sleeping instead of doing the thing I needed to do.
So I’m in the forest with a guy, just hiking together, having a good time. While we’re walking, I see this horse, and it’s got a saddle blanket which says “Lakers” on it. ‘Oh hey, the Lakers are here, maybe this horse got away from them.’ I say. My friend and I get the horse and walk towards the lake because, you know, the Lakers are going to be swimming.
Sure enough, we get to the lakeside and there’s a few horses tied to a big log and some towels and bags and such. We tie up the horse and then the Lakers come out of the water – wearing their full jerseys, by the way. So now we’re hanging out with the Lakers, eating some lunch, talking, and one of them imparts the fact that he had to (literally) kill to get a position on the team, and that they have to be really careful of donations cause it might be a poisoned fruit basket that they’re receiving.
That was about the time I woke up and was very confused…
One of our favorite producers of schlock art, Jon McNaughton, is at it again. This guy is also a mormon, and he sells lots of “art” in the morridor. You too can pay $940 for a framed painting of Obama keeping everyone in chains.
To get the full effect, you have to click to enlarge, or view the “Read More” provided with each painting.
The New Yorker published an interesting article about “GroupThink” and/or “brainstorming.” Like most people, I enjoy having my conclusions confirmed, and this article confirmed my suspicions that committees often don’t work. Sometimes brainstorming groups can be a waste of time. Committees sometimes get in the way of coming to workable solutions, especially if their working environment stresses being polite.
The article discusses a popular book that outlines the rules for a good brainstorming technique, and these rules include banning criticism and negative feedback. But those scientists, they can’t leave a poorly researched conclusion alone. They tested the premise, and found that banning criticism and negative feedback guaranteed poor results.
Guess what, debate, criticism and even off-the-wall negative feedback are effective and lead to an increase in suggested solutions to problems, and also to an upgrade in the quality of solutions offered.
The link given above lets everyone read an intro to the article, but only subscribers can access the whole thing. I’ll list few of the interesting tidbits below for those that don’t have a New Yorker subscription. These are all excerpts, word for word:
The brainstorming groups slightly outperformed the groups given no instructions, but teams given the debate condition were the most creative by far. On average, they generated nearly twenty per cent more ideas.
Nemeth’s studies sugest that the ineffectiveness of brainstorming stems from the very thing that Osborn though was most important. As Nemeth puts it, “While the instruction ‘Do not criticize’ is often cited as the important instruction in brainstorming, this appears to be a counterproductive strategy. Our findings show that debate and criticism do not inhibit ideas but, rather, stimulate them relative to every other condition.” Osborn thought that imagination is inhibited by the merest hint of criticism, but Nemeth’s work and a number of other studies have demonstrated that it can thrive on conflict.
There’s this Pollyannish notion that the most important thing to do when working together is stay positive and get along, to not hurt anyone’s feelings,” she says. “Well, that’s just wrong. Maybe debate is going to be less pleasant, but it will always be more productive…”
Another good article from The New Yorker is “The Caging of America,” which is a close look at the mass incarceration of American citizens, and of illegal immigrants in the U.S. The article also exposes the prison systems that benefit financially from keeping six million people under correctional supervision — “more than were in Stalin’s gulags.”
This entire article is available to everyone (six pages online) Below are a few excerpts.
I believe that very few men are capable of estimating the immense amount of torture and agony which this dreadful punishment, prolonged for years, inflicts upon the sufferers. . . . I hold this slow and daily tampering with the mysteries of the brain, to be immeasurably worse than any torture of the body: and because its ghastly signs and tokens are not so palpable to the eye and sense of touch as scars upon the flesh; because its wounds are not upon the surface, and it extorts few cries that human ears can hear; therefore I the more denounce it, as a secret punishment which slumbering humanity is not roused up to stay. – Dickens, 1842
Our growth is generally dependent upon our ability to obtain new contracts to develop and manage new correctional and detention facilities. . . . The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by the relaxation of enforcement efforts, leniency in conviction and sentencing practices or through the decriminalization of certain activities that are currently proscribed by our criminal laws. For instance, any changes with respect to drugs and controlled substances or illegal immigration could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them.
The above quote is from the 2005 Annual Report of the Corrections Corporation of America, a private company that spends millions of dollars lobbying U.S. legislators, and that has ties to several right-wing politicians.
“The system of mass incarceration works to trap African Americans in a virtual (and literal) cage,” the legal scholar Michelle Alexander writes. Young black men pass quickly from a period of police harassment into a period of “formal control” (i.e., actual imprisonment) and then are doomed for life to a system of “invisible control.” Prevented from voting, legally discriminated against for the rest of their lives, most will cycle back through the prison system. The system, in this view, is not really broken; it is doing what it was designed to do. Alexander’s grim conclusion: “If mass incarceration is considered as a system of social control—specifically, racial control—then the system is a fantastic success.”
The article goes on to destroy the Republican Party’s claim that it is this system of mass incarceration that accounts for the drop in violent crime.
Louissays
Ok people, random thought for the day:
I was just reading this week’s “Nature” and “Science” and was reading about the use of stem cells for certain types of blindness.
I hate to say it but in my ongoing recognition of my own Fundy Over-exposure Induced Bitterness, Lethargy and Exasperation Syndrome (FOIBLES) one of my first thoughts was that I can see some quack-a-fundy somewhere claiming that this is how Jesus made the blind see. Jesus, son of god, sons are young, stems cells are “young” cells, Jesus touching the eyes introduced special Jesus Stem Cells (TM) into the eyes of the blind people…ergo Jesus makes the blind see.
It disturbs me that some area of my brain is so attuned to utter batshittery from various quarters that it actually REPLICATES appreciably accurate pastiches of this stuff and serves it up to me when I am reading real science.
If I see Ray Comfort I’mma gonna kick him square in the nuts. Fucking mind virus spreading assclam.
Louis
carliesays
I’ve had doctors tell me repeatedly that drugs don’t work that way. Supposedly doses are completely independent of body mass.
They concluded that for women who use birth control pills (as compared to women of lower weight), those who are overweight are 60% more likely to get pregnant while those who are obese are 70% more likely to experience contraception failure.
Do the birth control pills have to have higher doses of hormones to be effective treatment for acne? Because I googled it, and it seems Ortho Tri-Cyclen can be used as a treatment. They have a low hormone version of that called Ortho Tri-Cyclen Lo. I take that one (not for acne) and I’m very small and it hasn’t caused me any problems.
Watching StevoR be a reprehensible asshole in the Rep Larry Pittman thread, I continue to be amazed at how willing people are to accept large amounts of doubt when being wrong could mean the execution of an innocent person.
And yet for many of those same people,when it comes to a subject like Evolution, ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY is required.
Myeck, he’s also in this thread insisting that space exploration takes precedence over social programs to help the poor, because OMG HUMANITY WILL GO EXTINCT IF WE DON’T GET OFF-PLANET!! Which means he’s going to vote for Swingrich because Newtie made noises about space exploration while pandering for votes to Floridians.
Nutmegsays
@ StarStuff
I’m not sure. My dermatologist told me that Alesse, which I was using before, didn’t have high enough progesterone to help with acne. It’s only a minor nuisance that I can’t use it to help with acne – I’ll just continue to fry my oil glands with the heavy-duty acne meds. I was mostly just pissed off this morning because stuff that anyone else can handle makes me puke.
If I ever need birth control for its original purpose, I’ll look into some of the low-dose options. Alesse seemed to be too low of a dose, but I’ve lost about 10% of my body weight since I was last on it, so maybe it would work okay for me again.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
Which means he’s going to vote for Swingrich because Newtie made noises about space exploration while pandering for votes to Floridians.
What’s amusing is that Swingrich thinks the private sector will take over for NASA on space exploration, and StevoR bought that line of bullshit. There is nothing that would prevent the private sector from doing anything under Obama either. I’m afraid the spark of reason is not present there.
waltonsays
Another good article from The New Yorker is “The Caging of America,” which is a close look at the mass incarceration of American citizens, and of illegal immigrants in the U.S. The article also exposes the prison systems that benefit financially from keeping six million people under correctional supervision — “more than were in Stalin’s gulags.”
Thanks for posting that. I’m glad people are drawing attention to this issue. The scale of mass incarceration in America (both in the criminal justice system, and of non-criminal immigration detainees) is appalling and comes at a terrible human cost, and the detained population is staggeringly high: not far off 800 per 100,000, far more than in any other industrialized country. (And then there’s the huge racial disparity and institutionalized racism; among African-American males, 4,749 per 100,000 were incarcerated in 2009, vastly higher than the general population.)
(By the way – not intended as criticism of any sort, just a general point of information – most immigration lawyers and immigrants’ rights activists, in my experience, prefer to talk about “undocumented” or “irregular” migrants, rather than using the colloquial phrase “illegal immigrants”. For one thing, the phrase “illegal immigrant” has no legal meaning, and nowhere appears in the Immigration and Nationality Act or in the Code of Federal Regulations; it’s political shorthand, but it isn’t a legally meaningful term. For another, the phrase “illegal immigrant” has come to be associated in American (and in British) culture with discrimination and stigma; when a group of people are popularly labelled “illegals”, as though their entire identity were “illegal”, it contributes to their exclusion from society, as well as to the false perception that they are excluded wholly from the protection of the law or that they have no rights. That’s why I prefer not to talk about “illegal immigrants” or “illegal immigration”, since I feel like, in so doing, we’re implicitly conceding a bit of rhetorical ground to the xenophobic right wing.)
waltonsays
I’m not going back to the Pittman/StevoR thread right now; I’m not in the mood to deal with that level of stupidity. Death-penalty-apologetics is one thing that really, really, really pisses me off, to the point that it makes me feel stressed and angry to have to deal with it.
KGsays
Watching StevoR be a reprehensible asshole in the Rep Larry Pittman thread, I continue to be amazed at how willing people are to accept large amounts of doubt when being wrong could mean the execution of an innocent person. – myeck waters
StevoR thinks, or pretends to think, that there is some magical way in which it could be ensured that all trials come to the correct conclusion. That he also credits the words of a many-times proven liar running in an election, tells us all we need to know about StevoR’s intelligence. Unfortunately, near-unbelievable stupidity is far from the worst thing about StevoR.
KGsays
Wouldn’t using violence to “correct” children’s behaviour teach them that violence is the way to “correct” anyone’s behaviour? – chigau
Well, only those smaller and weaker than themselves, or otherwise unable to retaliate.
KGsays
From the article Loud@65 linked to:
Lammy denied that supporting parents’ right to physically punish their children in any way condoned violence or abuse against children.
If I seek out David Lammy and physically punish him for saying this, that obviously won’t be violence or abuse, will it?
Walton, good point about the use of “undocumented” as opposed to “Illegal.” Thanks.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Yeah, the medicine dosages being dependent on body weight: DUH. I mean, I work in an animal lab. Every time the animals are dosed with anything, the dosage is always given in g/kg (that is, g of drug per kilogram of body weight). So a 200 g mouse gets 15 mg of drug while a 250 g mouse gets 18.75 mg of drug. This is basic pharmacology. If a doctor – or pharmacist – doesn’t get this basic concept, WTF is wrong?
I’ve noticed that my dosage of meds has had to be adjusted several times in the past few years – and that these adjustments have very neatly tracked my body weight.
cagsays
God is love.
Our Heavenly Father
Who is love incarnate, demonstrating once again that us mere humans, who believe that love generates affection, compassion, sacrifice and understanding, are without knowledge. You who are omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent surely know better than us. Us wretches could never be so loving that we would let millions of children starve to death
Us humans could never be so loving. We would not conceive of post partum abortion the way our loving lord does. We could never love so fully as to smother our loved ones with collapsed buildings or a wall of water. We are so inadequate that our thoughts never entertain the idea of loving our dear ones with diseases to rack their bodies unto death. Lord, our love is like nothing next to yours.
Amen.
sisusays
@ Nutmeg: you mentioned an IUD before… there are hormonal and non-hormonal versions available. I wonder if the hormonal IUD might be easier on your body, since it’s a continual release of the hormones instead of getting the dose all at once when you take the pill? Not a doc personally, but it might be worth asking your OB/GYN about.
Nutmegsays
Thanks, sisu. At the moment the question is purely academic. I’m far too shy to meet guys and I’m not even all that sure that I want to. Maybe someday I’ll be in a position to look into it.
carliesays
Ha ha! I made a tumblr. I’ll probably be tired of it within the month, but for now it amuses me.
I think anthropomorphising or otherwise externalising depression is an incredibly useful technique in maintaining whatever recovery you can manage. Yeah, of course it’s not technically true – but it’s a helpful model for many people. My own version is what I call “brain spam” – those “you’re worthless/you should kill yourself” thoughts are not “me” but my brain misfiring and sending persistent and annoying junk mail that I have to keep deleting.
@Giliell: you mean navel-gazing, not glazing ;) I wasn’t thinking of doughnuts but of windows. Glazed doughnuts are an abomination unto Nuggan. Or unto the lord of cinnamon sugar, anyway.
@Katherine, why are you dehydrated? Go drink something right now! If it’s an illness, get well soon! (Gastrolyte or “sports drinks” are your friends.)
We-ell, I was thinking of navel-glazing, only on a completely different topic *ehm* *blush*
On a cheerfull note, #1 told me today that I am the bestest mum in the world.
What did I do to earn such praise? I bought doughnuts. Which brings us back to the glazing…
Spanking
I once suggest to people who were in favour of spanking that the next time, instead of giving them a ticket with a fine for parking violation, the cop should tell them to lower their pants, bend over the hood of the car and give them a spanking.
Somehow they thought I was talking nonsense and that would be ridiculous and stuff.
ChasCPetersonsays
the dosage is always given in g/kg (that is, g of drug per kilogram of body weight). So a 200 g mouse gets 15 mg of drug while a 250 g mouse gets 18.75 mg of drug. This is basic pharmacology.
And it’s always been wrong (it works OK for animals of similar body size, but not for extrapolating very far).
This even has a name, the “elephantine fallacy”, after poor Tusko, killed by a directly scaled dose of LSD.
Katrinasays
Totally thread bankrupt, but I wanted to chime in to second the recommendation for the electric nit comb. It is a fabulous way to periodically check your own hair. It wouldn’t work on my daughter’s long, curly locks, but the boys and I used it frequently during our last outbreak. I like having it now because I can grab it at the first sign of suspicious itching and don’t have to rely on my far-sighted husband’s best efforts.
Fortunately, he is still my most reliable go-to when it comes to checking suspicious skin moles.
Now, back to reading in a pitiful attempt to catch up.
How weird! They understand the First Amendment protects freedom of religion – and then totally get the meaning of freedom of religion fucking wrong! WTF.
I once suggest to people who were in favour of spanking that the next time, instead of giving them a ticket with a fine for parking violation, the cop should tell them to lower their pants, bend over the hood of the car and give them a spanking.
Are we trying to discourage or encourage parking violations here?
Ing: I was being flip. Of course, it’s a bad idea. Lots of people fantasize about things that IRL are bad ideas.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
Dear busy people in cars:
When I am crossing the street at a brisk pace in a crosswalk with the green Walk sign lit, and the car in front of you has stopped to let me cross, and you honk your horn, I cannot help but think that you want the driver of the stopped car to run me over, thereby denting my lunchbox and killing me to death. This does offend me somewhat. Please keep your vehicular homicide wish to yourself. Thanks and have a nice day.
Love, Cipher
waltonsays
I once suggest to people who were in favour of spanking that the next time, instead of giving them a ticket with a fine for parking violation, the cop should tell them to lower their pants, bend over the hood of the car and give them a spanking.
Are we trying to discourage or encourage parking violations here?
Yeah, Giliell’s scenario did sound strangely like the setup for some bad erotic fanfic of some sort…
In seriousness, this touches on the other reason why I strongly oppose spanking of children. I think there’s an argument to be made that spanking on the buttocks is inherently sexual, on a subliminal level, even if it’s not intended or understood as such. The buttocks are an intimate area of the body, and the idea of ritualized physical dominance and humiliation is also something that many people instinctively sexualize. (It’s no accident that lots of people fetishize spanking, of the consensual adult foreplay kind; judging by its prevalence in erotic art and literature throughout history, it’s probably not a stretch to say that it’s the most common sexual fetish.)
For precisely this reason, I’d argue that spanking of children is abusive, and can border on sexual assault, even if it’s not done with any sort of sexual motivation. And I gather that there is evidence that it can be damaging to children’s psychosexual development, though I know that’s a controversial area in the empirical literature.
(Consensual adult spanking, on the other hand, is A-OK in my book.)
waltonsays
On second thought, I’m sorry if #152 was inappropriate or clumsily-expressed, particularly the first sentence. It’s not really appropriate to be flippant about this topic, and I’m sorry.
waltonsays
(I get extremely socially-anxious when discussing topics like this, as I worry that I’ve never quite got to grips with the rules of social propriety. Sometimes I end up overcompensating for this by apologizing too much.)
Ichthyicsays
so.. update on the whole tablet thing.
after all the feedback and research, I decided to go with the ASUS transf. prime for a tablet, AND get a kindle 3g touch for outdoor use.
but…
turns out that the ASUS prime is only for sale in NZ in one online store, and it’s exactly DOUBLE the price it is in the States.
I can’t even order it in the States though, because it also turns out that ASUS stopped shipping them to the states because of problems with wifi and GPS connectivity, so nobody in the states has one for sale that ships to NZ.
OK, so, next option; instead of the tablet/reader combo, I’ll just buy a B&N Nook tablet. It’s cheap for what you get, has way better hardware and is expandable, unlike the Kindle Fire, and everyone tells me it works great for PDF’s too.
but wait…
Turns out B&N have NO PLANS to ever sell the Nook in NZ. OK, so I can buy it in the states and have someone ship it to me…
but wait…
turns out B&N also don’t plan to provide ACCESS to any of their app or bookstore to New Zealanders either.
*pulling hair out now*
Is it any wonder NZ has such a high internet piracy rate?
hell, you basically have to hack, or steal, just to get ACCESS to anything here. It’s not like we wouldn’t pay for it, if the price wasn’t gouging, or if it was even available.
so, now, I have no clue what I should do.
I could have someone buy me a Nook from the states, ship it to me, and then I could hack it to install the full version of android (which would void the warranty), or if going 10″ tablet maybe I could settle for an ipad2 instead, since at least Apple doesn’t price gouge here, though frankly it is an inferior tablet compared to the ASUS.
On second thought, I’m sorry if #152 was inappropriate or clumsily-expressed, particularly the first sentence.
Pfft, that was mild. I was racking my brains for a reply along the lines of Starsky & Hutch & the Naughty Naughty Lawyer Who Drives Too Fast in His Lexus.
Phledgesays
Walton #152, I thought the response was perfectly in line with what others were saying. ;)
I am not a parent, nor will I ever be one, but my sister–let’s call her Emily–has two fantastic daughters aged 7 and 9 years. We’ve talked a lot about what makes these two girls tick, and the bottom line (no pun intended) is that she and her husband dole out repercussions that are most like what the kids would experience were they adults engaging in the same type of behavior. And always, ALWAYS with an explanation of this. Our parents, on the other hand, continued spankings (non-bare-bottomed) until we were well into our teens. I had already come to the realization that, if you still have to keep spanking us at this age? Your punishment doesn’t work, assholes. It got to the point where I would just bend over and laugh.
Thanks for the welcomes, everyone. For those who asked, I was working as a scribe in a family practice office. Which opens up a whole ‘nuther can o’ worms, since I’m actually a medical school graduate with my first year of residency behind me. I should be working as a fucking doctor but I made some horrendous choices (oh, Cheeky Velociraptor, you are irrepressible!) and didn’t secure ongoing post-graduate medical education. Trying to reverse that enormous mistake has been a huge undertaking.
changeable monikersays
I’ve driven a Lexus IS300. The suspension would never survive.
The acceleration was quite impressive, though.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Tell them to tell that to all the obese women who got pregnant because their birth control dosage wasn’t high enough.
Or, apparently, the fat people with cancer who didn’t receive high enough chemotherapy dosages. Horrifying.
Senior Catholic officials said that students at Catholic universities should know what to expect, and that those who disagree with the policies can choose to go elsewhere. “No one would go to a Jewish barbecue and expect pork chops to be served,” Mr. Galligan-Stierle said.
ibyeasays
On SteveoR
That guy is really stupid. He actually believes Newt Gingrich, just because his pet project got mentioned. He acts like humanity will go extinct right now or something. If he is really worried about human extinction, he should worry about the environment.
That guy is really stupid. He actually believes Newt Gingrich, just because his pet project got mentioned. He acts like humanity will go extinct right now or something. If he is really worried about human extinction, he should worry about the environment.
I thought Ben was being funny. He’s not very good at it, but neither are most of us.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
I just posted something on FB that could be worse:
Dear Superbowl fans, I have four parking spaces and a spare bed. The parking spaces are $150 each, the bed is $1000 a night. One to a customer.
It’s only 52.7 miles from the field of your dreams. Call me at 555-1212.
(p.s. Hookers cost extra.)
++++++++++++++++++++
p.s. I’m always going to be about an hour behind what everyone else posts, because FTB can’t even manage to load 25 comments at a time on my dial-up. I think it says something about me that I persevere.
I’m not sure what it says, but I’ll leave that as an exercise for the students.
Ing – “Is the godless community salient enough that we can afford to start ostracizing members now?”
Now that’s funny!
chigau (違う)says
The Sailor
Benjamin Geiger’s #140 is much too soon.
and, given his history here, it is more evidence that he just doesn’t get it.
Your FB ad might be funny if I understood it.
Happiestsadistsays
My thoughts as well, chigau. It’s too soon on a bunch of levels, and Benjamin Geiger really, really doesn’t get it a lot of the time.
chigau, yeah, I actually do get it, but are you talking about here, or other places that you know about?
+++++++++++++++
My FB post stands on it’s own. There is some context but I deliberately mentioned it here.
+++++++++++++++
“Also we like TLC better.”
Oh, right. Because it makes me feel nicer by comparison.
Be sure to let me know when it’s okay to do Lincoln assassination jokes.
Happiestsadistsays
Hey Benjamin, Sheila Nabb’s out of her coma, she would totally love to hear your funny joke! I mean, she can’t laugh because her jaw’s wired shut, but hey.
I love elevator creep jokes. They remind me that even though I have a fucked up knee and too much walking puts me in incredible pain, I do love taking the stairs just because of funny creeps like you.
Phledgesays
Yeah, Ben @#174, these humorless feminists just can’t let the doods have any fun. Broken face, shmoken face. What I wanna know is, was she asking for it?
The Sailor
We’ve got lumps of it round the back.
(translation: What?)
++++++++++
I honestly did not get the FB ad.
I’m a Canadian, not-a-sports-fan. I have no real understanding of the Superbowl.
++++++++++
However, I have alway adored the Smothers Brothers.
My mental illness has different avatars. Some are anthropomorphic, and some are more like objects. For example, my depression’s current manifestation is the Black Hole. Emotion gets sucked in and nothing ever comes out. My ability to give a fuck is severely diminished, and I don’t even care that I don’t care.
Do you care? Probably not. Do I care that you probably don’t care? Nope. But it is somewhat comforting to know that others assign avatars or metaphors to their brains’ fucked-uppedness like I do.
I’m guessing “the lunchbox discussion” was the time I asked for advice about transporting lunch to school, and everyone got butthurt that I actually pointed out problems I saw with their suggestions.
Rey Foxsays
I completely forgot about (didn’t hear about? I dunno) the more recent story.
Perhaps you should listen to the chucklefucks more.
Algernonsays
Oh for fucks sake.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Yep. Being irritated with Benjamin couldn’t possibly have anything to do with his consistently painting past interactions with himself in the role of victim.
There are lots of times I fucked up because I was depressed/angry and it was easier to get out of the car/lose the job/relationship … and that’s what I did. I fucked up. But sometimes it isn’t fucking up. Sometimes you have to do what you think is right. I can’t always tell the difference.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
My depression isn’t anthropomorphic, it’s me. I can’t put it on any other thing or person. I also realize it’s not always how I am. It’s not even most of what I am. That’s what I’ve learned about me, and I’m going to keep working on it.
To protest a bill that would require women to undergo an ultrasound before having an abortion, Virginia State Sen. Janet Howell (D-Fairfax) on Monday attached an amendment that would require men to have a rectal exam and a cardiac stress test before obtaining a prescription for erectile dysfunction medication.
“We need some gender equity here,” she told HuffPost. “The Virginia senate is about to pass a bill that will require a woman to have totally unnecessary medical procedure at their cost and inconvenience. If we’re going to do that to women, why not do that to men?”
The anti-abortion bill’s original sponsor, however, seems to have missed the point:
[Howell] pointed out that there are only seven women in the Virginia senate, and six of them voted in favor of her amendment, along with 13 male senators. Sen. Jill Vogel (R-Fauquier County), the sponsor of the mandatory ultrasound bill, voted against it.
“I do believe that erectile dysfunction in this context is different from pregnancy,” she said on the senate floor.
Happiestsadistsays
Of course not. We’re all just mean and don’t understand his clever humour and inability to feed himself like an adult.
Happiestsadistsays
I love Janet Howell’s amendment so much. I’m also not surprised that it went over its target’s head.
Phledgesays
Must be nice to have the privilege to ‘completely [forget] about’ the story of a woman with all the bones in her face broken by a man in an elevator with her.
Must be nice to have the privilege to ‘completely [forget] about’ the story of a woman with all the bones in her face broken by a man in an elevator with her.
You mean the privilege of being human, and therefore having a fallible memory?
Whatever you say, HAL.
Happiestsadistsays
Waaaaahhhh, better whine some more about how mean people are instead of bothering to read the news on occasion than to say “oops, my bad”? Admitting you said something inappropriate is human, Benjamin. Acting like a petulant child because we’re so gauche as to point out your fuckup is simply stupid.
chigau (違う)says
Geiger
The whole elevatorgate thing was never a joke.
Never A Joke.
If you knew or forgot about a more recent elevator thing is not relevant.
It was never a joking matter.
Ever.
Admitting you said something inappropriate is human, Benjamin.
And I did so, yet you continue to act like a fuckwit.
waltonsays
I love Janet Howell’s amendment so much. I’m also not surprised that it went over its target’s head.
Yeah.. I suppose it was too subtle for the Republicans to grasp. (After all, some of them apparently couldn’t figure out that the Onion article about the “Planned Parenthood Abortionplex” was satire.)
Happiestsadistsays
Quite, chigau. It’s just in even worse taste now. As opposed to being a “joke” about the hilarity of making women fear for their safety (Oh, but you’re being self-deprecatingly supportive of rape culture! That’s totes okay then!), it’s a quick glance to the news to see a woman who was attacked in an elevator who’s been lucky enough to be out of her induced coma in time for reconstructive surgery.
I don’t even get how it’s supposed to be self-deprecating humour. I mean “Lol, I’m such a creep the only way I can talk to women is to make them feel unsafe, while enjoying the nearly total support of my peers!” How is pointing out the privilege you have to freely scare people supposed to be self-deprecating?
Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: HOW DARE YOU THAT’S NOT FUNNY.
(I guess we’ve found the kernel of truth in that stereotype…)
Happiestsadistsays
Yes, I’m such a meanie. You never said anything was wrong about your shitty joke, other than it’s even more poorly timed right now.
Maybe if every time you did something fucking stupid you didn’t decide to whine that we’re all fuckwits and butthurt and actually tried to be less of an asshole, you’d have an easier time when you do fuck up. At this rate, we’ll never know.
Happiestsadistsays
Yep, we’re all just humourless. Certainly not that you’re about as funny as you are a Cordon Bleu chef.
Alright Ben, you should probably shut the fuck up now before you dig yourself deeper into the shit pile. Seriously, do you even read what you’re saying? Or do you really just need attention this much?
Pteryxxsays
I don’t even get how it’s supposed to be self-deprecating humour.
I read “I’ll be in the elevator!” as basically intent to troll.
Walton, it’s hard to believe it, but the US Republicans actually double down on ignorance. They don’t believe it themselves, but they think the yokels will fall for it again.
Ben, stop digging. Your joke sucked. It blew up in your face. It happens. Apologize and move on.
I see upthread where you said it was intended to be “self-deprecating,” but I don’t see any admission that it was inappropriate.
chigau (違う)says
Q: How many MRAs does it take to wallpaper the bathroom?
A: Just one if you slice him thin enough.
Is that funny?
chigau, well, it would of if I hadn’t heard it before. but I did sort of *snerk* because it’s funny on different levels.
+++++++++++++
janinesays
Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: HOW DARE YOU THAT’S NOT FUNNY.
That is is as funny now as it was when it first plopped out forty plus years ago.
Oh, wait, Ben is playing the Homer card; It’s funny because it is true.
meh
Phledgesays
You mean the privilege of being human, and therefore having a fallible memory?
Hmm, you wouldn’t happen to be old enough to remember who Lorena and John Wayne Bobbitt are, would you? Strangely, a lot of men remember that story very, VERY clearly. Besides, it’s pretty weak to cry memory loss when the event. Just. Happened.
Like feralboy said: just stop digging. Admit that your joke was a misogynist lead balloon and come join the rest of the convo. If I understand correctly, this group doesn’t bite unless requested.
In other news, woot! to the Howell amendment. Of note is the fact that the cardiac screening is a ridiculous cost for the payoff, and the rectal exam isn’t going to tell you anything about whether a patient is safe to receive an ED drug. I despise the mandatory ultrasounds, especially since many of them would end up being transvaginal at the usual gestational age at which women obtain abortions. Why can’t these douchebag misogynist religiots just let doctors do their fucking jobs?
Hmm, you wouldn’t happen to be old enough to remember who Lorena and John Wayne Bobbitt are, would you? Strangely, a lot of men remember that story very, VERY clearly.
Now that you mention it, yes, I remember it, mainly because it was a media circus (and I was actually paying attention to the media at that point). It doesn’t spring to my mind unless something brings it up (pun, as it were, entirely unintended).
Besides, it’s pretty weak to cry memory loss when the event. Just. Happened.
Not “memory loss”, “lack of memory imprint”. I forget what I study in class most days. (And a more appropriate analogy would be: I don’t remember what happens in class on days when I don’t go to class. I can’t remember something I never learned about in the first place.)
Mathematicians ask, “How can I concieve of it?”
Engineers ask, “How can I build it?”
Business majors ask, “How can I make a profit off of it?”
Arts majors ask, “Would you like fries with that?”
An engineer, a mathematician, and a computer scientist were traveling by jeep in the Serengeti. Suddenly, the engineer noticed a zebra with no stripes.
The engineer exclaimed, “Hey, look! A black zebra!”
The mathematician responded, “No, all we know is that there exists a zebra that is black on one side.”
The computer scientist was curled up in the fetal position, muttering, “a special case… a special case…”
More serendipity : BBC – Why do some people never get depressed? Linky.
(Or do their journalists read TET?)
…
[topic: dehydration]
Always have some oral rehydration salts (ORS) handy. To make your own in an emergency:
six level teaspoons of sugar
1/2 teaspoon of salt
1 litre (5 cups) of boiled water.
(The above saves lives. Your body may fail to absorb water properly if your osmotic balance is out (especially in case of diarrhoea). Therefore the need to get the electrolytes right.)
No one told me it joke night. I’m glad, they would have lied to me. Again.
Phledgesays
Sailor, what do you call a nosey hot pepper? Jalapeño business.
SallyStrange (Bigger on the Inside), Spawn of Cthulhusays
Oh hai Ben. I was wondering when the next time you would reveal how badly you fail at being a decent person would be. And here it is. You are posing as the victim because people told you that it is Not Cool to make a joke putting yourself in the role of Schrodinger’s Rapist. Yes, Schrodinger’s fucking rapist. Yes, I’m going there, because you already know the reference. And you also have your demonstrated history of being unwilling to respect the previously stated boundaries of a member of this community. You were disinvited from PET because of behavior like this. Go ahead and keep telling yourself that it’s all because just one or two people didn’t like you, and it’s a total coincidence that this keeps happening over and over again! HaHaHAHahaha…
But anyway, no. You don’t get to make that joke. You just don’t. Or, at the very least, you don’t get to make that joke around these parts and not expect to get any blowback. Go post on r/atheist if that’s the kind of joke you want to tell. It’s not like there’s not a vast, vast internet out there where “Haha you’re afraid of me!” is appreciated as the height of cleverness and wit. The whole misogynist world is waiting for you to join it, Ben. Those horrible feminists are just too mean and too deluded to ever appreciate you. The Sailor is right: you are intelligent and perceptive enough to be capable of learning. And yet, you do not learn. We must conclude that you have no desire to. If that’s the case, then why the fuck continue to hang around here, where you’re simply not welcome, at least until you can start treating women like people? No logical reason, I think that much is a safe guess.
For precisely this reason, I’d argue that spanking of children is abusive, and can border on sexual assault, even if it’s not done with any sort of sexual motivation.
Would you be happier if people amcked the children in the face instead?
We’ve been here before, please stop mixing adult sexuality with normal adult-child interaction.
Believe me, if I cut out every interaction that lots of adults consider a sexual turn-on, I couldn’t touch me children with pliers.
A normal parent-child relationship is inherently intimate in nature, but not sexual.
I can give you another example:
My husband and my children consider my boobs to be very, very wonderful things. Yet their motivation and reasoning is completely opposite.
Sally
If Ben learned, he’d have to hand in his victim-card and collect a decent human being-card, but that comes with terms and conditions attached.
I guess if he makes somebody cry, he gets all upset how that bad person can inflict all their pain on him.
Stop crying, you make the poor lad uncomfortable.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
What’s the difference between a large pizza and a Ph.D master’s in math?
A large pizza will feed a family of four.
I’ve only recently realized this is one of those it’s funny because it’s true jokes. Without the funny.
Apologies, Beatrice. I got laid off two years ago and haven’t found a job yet, so if it’s any consolation you are not alone. Full disclosure: I’m not a mathematician, but that joke works with “Bachelor’s in Journalism” as well.
I hope that your luck improves very soon.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
No apologies needed, I like dark humour. I’m just bitter.
I hope that your luck improves very soon.
Yours as well.
Phledgesays
Heartbreaking to me that brilliant minds have spent years of their lives earning degrees in studies that comprise the foundation of our civilization, yet cannot earn sufficient keep to raise a family. Meanwhile, Normal Americans™ are disgusted that evolution is taught in schools and a candidate for the presidency speaks French. I am hopeful that decrying outdated modes of thinking, such as belief in god(s), moves us away from this nonsense and back to a place where all of us can be productive members of society.
Hmm, seems to me that this joke works with about every degree you can get.
German versions:
What does a PhD in history with a job say to a PhD in in history without a job?
Would you like your fries with or without ketchup?
What do you do with a PhD in philosophy?
Drive a cab.
I think it’s interesting how many people who earn college degrees in the end get stuck with the occupation they did during their college years to earn money.
Why did they have to earn money?
Right, working class/ lower middle class parents.
Where do they end up?
Working class/ lower middle class.
I spot a pattern here…
Not so cheerful news: The road has turned into its usual state of ice with a bit of snow on top. We are about the last road in the whole city to get winter service.
Still, it’s not as bad as it was two years ago when I had to carry a baby and a toddler through slush so high it ran into the top of my boots…
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
You know what’s funny? I’m currently shuffling papers and calling people in a place that actually “does” mathematics. But I’m not here because of my degree, I do nothing that is even remotelly connected to my degree and I have no chance of staying here. I got it because my mom works here. I know, nothing to brag about, but I wasn’t willing to decline when I know that even if I didn’t take it, someone else’s kid woul have.
My pride and integrity are worth a four months salary, apparently.
I didn’t believe people when they said that you can only get a job in this country if you have connections. Sadly, it seems to be true. I’m just a nobody with nobodies for parents, so all I can get is four months of an administrative job, while watching competitions for permanent jobs going by with results known in advance.
I am qualified for a job in this place (even with my low self-esteem I can see that), but I’m never going to get it. People with degrees that have nothing to do with math get those jobs because they have someone to pull the strings.
NuMadsays
Be sure to let me know when it’s okay to do Lincoln assassination jokes.
Actually, if one were to make a Lincoln assassination joke on the model of your elevator joke, the Secret Service might feel that it was, indeed, “too soon.”
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
This new movie about Margaret Thatcher looks like a horrible sequel to Iron Man. I can’t figure out what the writers were thinking. I don’t remember her being a big part of the story in the comic books.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Geez Ben, and you wonder why you have a hard time finding a girlfriend? There’s no way it could be your charming demeanor could it?
There’s never a good time for an elevator joke, for crissakes. Even assuming the recent story of that woman beat near to death in an elevator never happened (and you don’t know how much I wish it didn’t) there would still not be a time and place for it. It’s a rape joke, period. It’s playing on the fears of a woman being placed in a situation that she’s uncomfortable with and that is a situation where something bad could easily happen to her.
You either would have to be entirely non-empathic, or just a complete idiot to make a joke like that and expect people to laugh.
Hm,ok. Try this one. An interesting example of a bunch of people totally missing a historical occasion. And you may find that if you strum the chords, Am Dm G C might resemble the general idea of the song…:-)
I see the cartoon in your linky features Mr Creosote as the capitalist. Link:”It is wafer thin.”
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Heh, I didn’t even notice that.
waltonsays
I am hopeful that decrying outdated modes of thinking, such as belief in god(s), moves us away from this nonsense and back to a place where all of us can be productive members of society.
I doubt that. In Britain, belief in deities is much less prevalent, and the fundamentalist cult of ignorance is much less popular, yet it’s still not easy getting a decent graduate job.
Would you be happier if people amcked the children in the face instead?
We’ve been here before, please stop mixing adult sexuality with normal adult-child interaction.
Believe me, if I cut out every interaction that lots of adults consider a sexual turn-on, I couldn’t touch me children with pliers.
A normal parent-child relationship is inherently intimate in nature, but not sexual.
Yes, of course that’s true. But with spanking, there does seem to be some evidence that it can be, even if wholly unintentionally, damaging to a child’s psychosexual development; though this is admittedly disputed.
chigau (違う)says
rorschach
I don’t read music so I put
Am Dm G C Am Dm G C Am Dm G C F G Am F G Am F G C Am F G Am
into a google search and it gave me a “do you really mean?”
Am Dm C Am Dm C Am Dm G C F G Am F G Am F G C Am F G Am
Don’t you ♥ the internets?
I still don’t know what the tune is.
Walton
Your google-fu seems weak on this. Most of the papers on the first page only refer to either, and those that refer to both seem crap (if you read the first result, that makes me shake my head a lot). I don’t think that we need to discuss that spanking is inherently bad, abuse and should be a criminal offence everywhere, but the psychosexual component seems to exist more in the minds of the adults than in those of the children.
I’d like to see real data to support that hypothesis.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Awesome. Back of my throat getting itchy, random coughing, slight tiredness.
Perfect. Have 12 people coming for dinner on Saturday night and I’m getting sick.
I’m guessing “the lunchbox discussion” was the time I asked for advice about transporting lunch to school, and everyone got butthurt that I actually pointed out problems I saw with their suggestionsannoyed that I made a “Yes, but…” excuse for every suggestion.
FIFY.
As for “being human,” so is everybody here, and you’re one of the very few who has a problem remembering not to make misogynist jokes, or snide comments about how feminists have no sense of humor because we aren’t laughing at jokes that treat violence against women lightly…the way the rest of society treats it.
I’m really unsurprised you take PUA tactics seriously. It’s about right for a guy who’d rather find a “cheat code” to “win pussy” than to change any personal traits that women view as red flags.
Sailor, making excuses for this whiny, petulant manchild doesn’t make you look good. It makes you look tone-deaf to sexism.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
I’m really unsurprised you take PUA tactics seriously. It’s about right for a guy who’d rather find a “cheat code” to “win pussy” than to change any personal traits that women view as red flags.
And then whinge incessantly about how he just can’t understand why no women find him appealing.
The schtick is painfully tiring and transparent.
chigau (違う)says
On a slightly other topic:
the only person who has said to my face that space-aliens built the pyramids was an engineer;
the only person who has said to my face that men have one fewer ribs than women was an engineer.
(Actually students and 30+ years ago.)
Have things changed?
Chigau: One of the NYT commenters notes that Fordham University, the Catholic college that is the main focus of the article, “accepts federal funds in the form of tuition loans guaranteed by all taxpayers.” Another notes that, as a religious school, it is tax-exempt.
He haz him some smarts, and he iz capable of learning.
No one has denied his ability only his will.
Non freewill version
No one has denied his intellectual ability only his emotional ability.
I’m really unsurprised you take PUA tactics seriously. It’s about right for a guy who’d rather find a “cheat code” to “win pussy” than to change any personal traits that women view as red flags.
Hence why TLC is the popular one! Let’s all pay attention to TLC now!
Seriously though Ben, if you want to examine TLC since you seem to think the situation is a lot like your’s and look for differences that could explain the difference in response to him it might be helpful.
waltonsays
I don’t think that we need to discuss that spanking is inherently bad, abuse and should be a criminal offence everywhere, but the psychosexual component seems to exist more in the minds of the adults than in those of the children.
I’d like to see real data to support that hypothesis.
You might be right. I’ll be the first to accept that I can’t really view this objectively or without preconceptions.
SallyStrange (Bigger on the Inside), Spawn of Cthulhusays
Fuck Mr. Ben “always changing my ‘nym so you bitches have to keep reading my self-pitying rants” Geiger. His destructive narcissism distracted me last night from what I was going to say. I was going to post about how my truck is out of commission, literally hours before I was to make the very last trip out of Vermont to my new place. Boo. I ended up spending an extra night here. Lucky for me, a friend is working an overnight and let me stay in his apartment. With, I might add, a giant tub that’s long enough to stretch out full length in! (Okay, I’m short, but that’s still pretty cool.)
I’m really hoping that starting over in a new place will allow me to get back on track. These past few months have been awful, from a personal financial perspective. Being sick for 2 weeks during January really put a big hit to my income. Bleh.
chigau (違う)says
Ms. Daisy Cutter
re public funding for the university
huh.
I’ve noticed that engineering and programming draw a lot of conservatives/libertarians and religious fundies. Not all engineers or programmers fit into any of these categories, of course. But ISTM that there’s a sort of linear thinking required in both professions that allows for a lot of mental compartmentalization.
For the hell of it, I Googled the question “Why are so many engineers libertarians?” One of the hits was this /r/AskReddit thread. Here is what was voted as the “best” answer, and bold is my emphasis:
I’m a 27 year-old engineer who was once liberal and is now (fiscally) conservative. I changed pretty much when I started working. I work with a lot of aerospace, defense, and power generation companies so my livelihood is tied to the military-industrial complex (my views on that are another conversation entirely), but I don’t think that is what changed my way of thinking. I’m very analytical in the way I look at things and tend not to let my emotions “think” for me. I see things as very “black & white”. I could care less about drug legalization (I wouldn’t use regardless), gay marriage (wouldn’t affect me), and other things like that which are contentious. I think government spending on “social programs” is out of control. There shouldn’t be a social security system, welfare system, and other “pork”. The government should exist solely to create and enforce a minimal set of laws designed to keep society from devolving into anarchy (property rights, safety on one’s person, etc…) and to protect the land-mass (and population therein) from outward threats. We’ve lost the plot long ago, as I see it.
BTW, I would self-identify as libertarian…mostly.
Another commenter claims that engineers understand “efficiency: better: “No system is 100% efficient which easily translates to more traditional conservative views of less government.”
Pteryxxsays
fyai, Steven at Zingularity’s in too much pain to blog and can’t get medical leave. I don’t know what if anything we can do.
Crap, I typed a colon after “efficiency” when I should have typed closing double quotation marks.
janinesays
PZ, just a heads up. Piltdown Man has hijacked jemimacole’s Why I Am An Atheist thread. He is jonathangray this time around. And you know the horde, we insist on poking at every pile of shit with a stick.
Another commenter claims that engineers understand “efficiency: better: “No system is 100% efficient which easily translates to more traditional conservative views of less government.”
Which is moronic. Even in Engineering I can’t imagine they actively jettisoning important user functions and going off to lunch because it’s ‘hard work’.
Engineers really need to stop acting like authorities in everything but their own field that’s the real problem with those ilk
Not engineers period, but engineers that are morons.
waltonsays
I’m really hoping that starting over in a new place will allow me to get back on track. These past few months have been awful, from a personal financial perspective. Being sick for 2 weeks during January really put a big hit to my income. Bleh.
:-( I’m sorry to hear that.
And *hugs* for Beatrice, Phledge, evilisgood and everyone else with work-related troubles.
Ing, #266: Well, yeah. I mean, humans are messy, irrational blobs of flesh that muck up the elegant simplicity of engineers’ designs.
Predator Handshakesays
Re engineers: although I’m not working as one, I got my bachelor’s in chemical engineering. My class was pretty small; maybe 20 people maximum in a given course and 100 total in the program. There were a few students in my class who were casually religious, which is to be expected here in the south, and none of them ever really brought it up at all. We all got to know each other pretty well and as far as I know, everyone at least accepted evolution. There was one guy who was my first experience with a reddit atheist; he was always showing people gross shit on 4chan and talking about Ron Paul, but nobody really took him seriously and he would actually shut up if we told him he was out of line so it wasn’t ever too bad.
Ahh, my new meds insurance company changed my generic BP med. It’s the same compound so no problem, right? It was 2x the strength, and I didn’t notice until I tried to get up from my chair.
Thank you, I’ll be here all weak.
+++++++++++++
theophontes, the dragon book and Magical Kingdom pix were adorable.
+++++++++++++
Rey Foxsays
I’m very analytical in the way I look at things and tend not to let my emotions “think” for me. I see things as very “black & white”.
Which is more annoying, the Straw Vulcan, or the Selfish Vulcan?
Something a little on the lighter side from Manboobz: The website’s 2011 Troll of the Year. David Futrelle lists, in paraphrases, the troll’s philosophy as shared with Manboobz regulars. I will share about a dozen that people here should find especially amusing, with the outright MRA shite deleted for your reading pleasure:
Science
Evolution is impossible, because otherwise we’d be able to watch dogs evolve into super-dogs. Unless anyone can produce evidence of dogs with super-powers, evolution is a myth.
The theory of evolution claims that life came from rocks. It also states that evolution doesn’t occur anymore because rocks are no longer in make-life mode.
The theory of evolution is the same as the Big Bang theory, which is also impossible.
In the animal kingdom, females entice males with their spectacular plumage and elaborate mating displays.
Female animals cannot feed themselves and rely on males to support them. Even in cases where this seems untrue, the males are still tougher. For example, female lions do all the hunting in the pride, but if they come across a really tough enemy, like a hyena, they run and get the male lion to fight for them.
Mathematics
There are only three percentages in statistics: 0%, 99%, and 100%. In statistical analysis, all numbers should be rounded to one of these three. COROLLARY: If people notice this and start suggesting that you’re just making your statistics up, it is mathematically acceptable to add some other really high numbers at random.
“Zero-sum game” is a fancy term for a game that ends in a tie.
There are two kinds of numbers, quantative and qualative.
Medicine
Children are lined up and injected with a dangerous chemical called flouride to make them stupid.
Mammograms cause breast cancer. Doctors advise women to get mammograms at least once a week until they develop cancer from it.
All drugs and medication are unsafe except marijuana.
After an abortion, the fetus is chopped into pieces and thrown into the nearest river or lake to feed the fish.
If the FDA worked, we’d have cures for cancer, diabetes, and every disease and ailment. Since we don’t, it’s not doing anything useful and should be abolished.
Algernonsays
PZ, just a heads up. Piltdown Man has hijacked jemimacole’s Why I Am An Atheist thread. He is jonathangray this time around. And you know the horde, we insist on poking at every pile of shit with a stick.
For the record I am leaving him alone this time. I promise. I promise promise promise. Though I probably creep him out. Heh… even trolls have trolls.
chigau (違う)says
I had an “aha!” while reading Ms. Daisy’s Reddit quote @262.
Libertarians think they way they do because they honestly think that stuff going on in the society in which they live has no effect on them.
In other words, libertarians are stupid.
I have to admit I was flabbergasted to see Pilty profess his love for William S. Burroughs. Not something I expected.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
And you know the horde, we insist on poking at every pile of shit with a stick.
You’re right. Why do we do that?
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
[Redhead update]
While a good amount of progress has been made, with feeling and some small amount of muscle function returning on her left side, it is obvious that coming home at the moment isn’t a logical option (and she agrees). Further daily rehab is needed in an in-house setting for her to come home to our handicap unfriendly house. I’m looking at nursing homes with rehab that are in my insurance network. Bleah, what a pleasant task.
Any advice from the horde is welome.
[/Redhead update]
chigau (違う)says
Nerd
That sounds very hopeful.
I have no advice, just a *hug*.
waltonsays
I have to admit I was flabbergasted to see Pilty profess his love for William S. Burroughs. Not something I expected.
Eh, what? No, you’re misunderstanding him. He hates Burroughs. See this thread on my blog.
Algernonsays
Another commenter claims that engineers understand “efficiency: better: “No system is 100% efficient which easily translates to more traditional conservative views of less government.”
Did anyone write in to say that this is why engineers will never be physicists? Because they should.
cicely (Now With 37.5% Less Fleem!!)says
Benjamin, I get that you intended it as self-deprecating humor, and I get that you don’t understand why it was a lead balloon, but it didn’t work for the same reasons that Ted Danson in blackface didn’t work (historical context—racism≠funny), and Prince Harry in a Nazi costume didn’t work (historical context—Nazis=Holocaust≠funny). In this case, it’s that the whole Schrodinger’s Rapist phenomenon (and associated baggage) isn’t funny.
–
I’m guessing “the lunchbox discussion” was the time I asked for advice about transporting lunch to school, and everyone got butthurt that I actually pointed out problems I saw with their suggestions.
More that it certainly seemed that you were going to find any and all suggestions and attempts to help completely impossible; in much the same vein as earlier attempts to suggest ways and places to meet women always were met with a general “that can’t possibly work”, and your apparent impatience that we couldn’t instantly come up with a fool-proof answer that you hadn’t heard/tried yet. It quacked a lot like a pattern, Benjamin; “Help me! But I can’t be helped! Why aren’t you helping me?”
–
To protest a bill that would require women to undergo an ultrasound before having an abortion, Virginia State Sen. Janet Howell (D-Fairfax) on Monday attached an amendment that would require men to have a rectal exam and a cardiac stress test before obtaining a prescription for erectile dysfunction medication.
I like it!
:)
–
Richard Austinsays
Ichthyic:
I see a few (not a bunch) of 32 GB and 64 GB Primes on Amazon. Not sure what price point you were looking for; these are $600ish and $750ish.
It looks like TigerDirect has at least one 64 GB for $600ish.
If you need a US address, let me know. Dstarfire at hotmail and such.
“There shouldn’t be a social security system, welfare system, and other “pork”. The government should exist solely to create and enforce a minimal set of laws designed to keep society from devolving into anarchy ”
Ahh, a police state, the exact thing they fear is happening. This asshole needs to lose his job and discover the real world as it exists for most people.
IRT ‘engineers’, there are as many fields in engineering as there are in PhDs, don’t be hatin’ on engineers in general.
One thing I learned when I was using my engineering degree was that I can’t control how the people around me affect me, but I can control the people around me. I got away from that system.
I also got lucky. After being an aerospace engineer (OK, I was a turbine rotorcraft maintenance engineer) I became a sound engineer. The pay usually sucked, but the benefits were incredible … until I was old enough to need medical and retirement.
Now I do medical research programming, a bit of engineering, and social engineering to get the task accomplished. I work with light instead of sound and no one applauds at the end of the day, but everything I’ve learned in school/life gets applied.
I like that.
waltonsays
Nerd: *hugs* for you and the Redhead, and best wishes to her for a speedy recovery.
I did not know this word ‘sarchasm’, and yet I also don’t get it.
+++++++++++
Nerd, the facilities you require are so local and personal I have zero advice. I am glad that she has you as an advocate. Research shows that having someone who will fight for you has much better outcomes. If there is another way I can help please let me know.
The recent trials in Canada over so-called “honor killings” has ex-mormons quoting from their prophet, Brigham Young.
Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands.
Quoted from a speech given by Brigham Young, Delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, March 16, 1856. Reported By: G. D. Watt.
Of course Brigham Young is also the guy that said he thought as much of adding another wife to his household as he did of buying another cow for his herd.
Still, I didn’t think he’d be that hard on his brother.
Dhorvath, OMsays
Ah shit Nerd, that sounds pretty hard. Please let us know if you need anything. Add another grog from the Island and please take care of yourself too.
“There shouldn’t be a social security system, welfare system, and other “pork”. The government should exist solely to create and enforce a minimal set of laws designed to keep society from devolving into anarchy ”
Ahh, a police state, the exact thing they fear is happening. This asshole needs to lose his job and discover the real world as it exists for most people.
FOr some reason they don’t see that a social welfare system is part of those laws. Both alternatives to having it (Peasant revolt or having to step over child corpses in the street) are lubricant for said anarchy.
FOr some reason they don’t see that a social welfare system is part of those laws. Both alternatives to having it (Peasant revolt or having to step over child corpses in the street) are lubricant for said anarchy.
Well, you know, if all those poor people were rational and logical like that guy, they would have bootstrapped themselves out of poverty. Including the kids. So they don’t deserve anything, and if they either revolt or have the inconsideration to lie around on sidewalks dying, that’s what the cops, the prison system, and Mr. Libertarian’s firearms collection are for.
Nerd, I’m going to echo a few other comments up-thread and say that The Redhead is going to benefit from having you in her corner.
The entire medical establishment is astonishingly good at not really paying attention to little things like coordinating care when many doctors are involved. The patient needs an advocate, and an intelligent one at that.
Well, you know, if all those poor people were rational and logical like that guy, they would have bootstrapped themselves out of poverty. Including the kids. So they don’t deserve anything, and if they either revolt or have the inconsideration to lie around on sidewalks dying, that’s what the cops, the prison system, and Mr. Libertarian’s firearms collection are for.
Ironically, in a life boat scenario anyone with such an attitude would rationally be the first choice to toss over board as dead weight.
It is libertarians attitudes like that and the alleged correlation to engineers that makes me wonder if some of the Dilbert scenarios and complaints laid there aren’t more due or equally due to an inability to work well with others rather than bad/stupid management.
It’s a sociopathic political philosophy. Don’t get me started on the people I used to know who actually blamed the VA Tech shooting victims for not fighting back…
It is libertarians attitudes like that and the alleged correlation to engineers that makes me wonder if some of the Dilbert scenarios and complaints laid there aren’t more due or equally due to an inability to work well with others rather than bad/stupid management.
Some of them, I’m sure. Especially, if we’re talking strictly about scenarios depicted in Dilbert, given what we know of Scott Adams’ character.
That said, corporate America as a whole is pretty fucked up, and a lot of companies actively reward sociopathic behavior on the part of their higher-ups.
Of course. It is though making me question what the other side of the story is.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
I’d just like to send my best wishes to the Redhead, and to Nerd too.
janinesays
I usually try to avoid the pile on. Nerd, I wish I had any words of advice about Redhead’s recovery but I have none. Except this, you seem to be smart enough and caring enough to find out what needs to be done and do it. I wish you strength and I wish Redhead well.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
[Redhead update]
The decision for further in-house rehab wasn’t hard. My health insurance will only pay for 28 days of “acute care rehab”, which is rehab in a hospital setting. They will pay for further rehab as “extended care rehab”, which is in a nursing home setting, and is cheaper for them. She still has the last week in acute care rehab to go, and we (the case-worker, the Redhead, and myself) are just looking ahead.
She is at the first stage of relearning to walk though. She stands on the good leg, grabs a bar with her good arm, the therapist moves her bad leg forward, and she scoots the good leg up to even with the bad leg. Repeat until tired, which isn’t very long (but getting longer). This isn’t good enough for getting around our old house.
I’ve let my fingers do the mousing and have knocked the potential list down to four candidates (found some ratings on-line). The case-worker wants a list of the top three choices to start the negotiations for transfer tomorrow. From my perspective, the one problem is that the all candidates are a ways away, making it difficult to see her every night after work, or quickly in an emergency.
[/Redhead update]
I was absent when whatever happened to the Redhead happened, but from the sounds of things, I’m assuming a right-side stroke. I’m really sorry to hear that, but I’m glad progress is being made. One thing I’ve learned from my wife on these things (she’s an SLP at an inpatient rehab clinic) is that everybody is different. But stay strong, keep working, and trust the therapists, even when what they’re asking sounds weird. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
janinesays
It is not like one looks to Barney Google and Snuffy Smith for a reflection of the human condition but WHAT THE FUCK?
I’m wondering if people have athei-dar. I got approached by a Christian while I was at Panda Express waiting for my optometrist appointment; she asked whether she could say a prayer for me. We actually had a reasonable discussion for a few minutes, she did her thing, then we went our separate ways.
In a press release on Colbert’s Super PAC site, the late-night comedian explains just what it is that he’s managed to accomplish: “We raised it on my show and used it to materially influence the elections – in full accordance with the law. It’s the way our founding fathers would have wanted it, if they had founded corporations instead of just a country.”
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
I don’t think that we need to discuss that spanking is inherently bad, abuse and should be a criminal offence everywhere, but the psychosexual component seems to exist more in the minds of the adults than in those of the children.
What horrified me about the data walton linked to was how it appeared to assume a masochistic adult sexual identity = damage. Just, no.
waltonsays
If we’re on the subject of libertarians, it amazes me that Ron Paul has somehow managed to convince everyone – both his supporters and his critics – that he is The Libertarian Candidate™.
When one looks closely at what he stands for, he isn’t “libertarian” in anything but a very superficial sense. He supports a smaller and weaker federal government, and believes more powers should be returned to the states, but that isn’t at all the same thing as actually supporting individual rights (indeed, a reliance on the rhetoric of “states’ rights” was the classic argument of the old Southern segregationists who opposed civil rights). He supports tougher immigration controls and militarizing the border. He favours overturning Roe, and thinks that states should be able to outlaw abortion. And with his absurd “We the People Act”, he supports severely limiting the jurisdiction of the federal courts to enforce the Bill of Rights, a proposal which would be a disaster for the rights of minorities. And so on. He isn’t a libertarian; he’s an old-fashioned paleoconservative.
Yes, he looks libertarian in comparison with the rest of the Republican candidates, but that’s only because the party as a whole has moved so far in the direction of extreme authoritarianism and militarism. It’s great that he’s opposed to torture, undeclared wars and targeted killings, and I agree with him on those issues, but it’s hardly enough to make him a libertarian by any reasonable objective standard. (And even there, his foreign policy positions seem to be grounded less in actual humanitarian concerns and more in a sort of knee-jerk nationalist isolationism, along the lines of “we shouldn’t be sending our American boys to fight in foreign wars”, which is also a traditional paleoconservative position.)
I disagree with actual libertarians on plenty of issues, but one of the things that most frustrates me is the way that so many of them unthinkingly throw their support behind Paul, despite the fact that he clearly doesn’t live up to his rhetoric. I don’t think a Paul administration would be good for individual liberties, on any measure. He might scrap the War on Drugs and adopt a less aggressive foreign policy, but any benefit from these measures would be outweighed by the rolling-back of federal civil rights protections; and his administration would probably be an active setback for women’s reproductive rights, immigrants’ rights, and the rights of minorities in general. By contrast, the actual libertarian candidate in the race, Gary Johnson, is a marginal figure who’s been largely ignored even by libertarians.
waltonsays
What horrified me about the data walton linked to was how it appeared to assume a masochistic adult sexual identity = damage. Just, no.
I certainly wouldn’t make such a claim, and never have. I apologize if it seemed that I was doing so.
Seriously, Walton after hearing almost every one basically say “I couldn’t care less” when problems with the philosophy is pointed out and their disdain for minorities and women, Ron Paul is their freaking candidate.
Happiestsadistsays
kristinc @ #312: Yeah, that really unsettled me as well. Adult people consensually fucking in ways they find fulfilling and enjoyable is not my definition of “damage”.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Thoroughly thread bankrupt. Home computer is cranky, so I am pharyngulating from work. In other news, working for an institute of higher education has its perks in largely unrestricted internet.
Spanking: I was spanked as a kid. The ‘rents used a wooden spoon, on the grounds that children should not associate their parents’ hands with both punishment and love. Not sure how that works (the implement of punishment was held in the hands, after all), but whatever. Spankings were uncommon. The usual pattern was this:
1. Kid misbehaves.
2. Parent notices, calls attention to misbehavior.
3. Kid is sent to go get the wooden spoon.
4. Parent takes wooden spoon, scolds.
5. Kid is told to put the wooden spoon in sink and desist from misbehavior.
Basically, my siblings and I were punished by threats of spankings, rather than actual spankings.
I’m torn about the benefit of this as compared to actual spankings. On the one hand, I do not approve of spanking as a tool of discipline and, should I ever have children, I will not spank. I also am highly skeptical of the value of threats of violence. Should parents be feared by their children? On the other, what is worse – threatening violence or carrying it out? How does this equation change when applied to a parent/child relationship, with the inherent power, size, and strength differentials?
I’m also very conflicted about the one time I remember actually being spanked. I was caught doing something that had a serious potential of causing me major bodily harm or even killing me. I had been explicitly forbidden from doing what I was doing because of this very danger, and the danger had been explained to me in a manner that was understandable to someone my age. I did it anyway (don’t ask me why, but I’m guessing boredom and not giving a shit). On the one hand, are rules like “don’t hit your children” open to suspension in extreme circumstances? If so, what counts as an extreme circumstance? Does playing with kindling very near a lit fire count? Running into the road without looking for traffic? Swimming in an unsafe manner? Playing with the mechanism securing an overhead hundred-pound weight (this what I was doing)? On the other hand, I think one reason why I remember that spanking (it was 3 or 4 swats) was the fact that my parents were so obviously furious with me in a way I had never really seen before. If they had merely scolded me, their fury so evident, would the lesson have stuck? If they had scolded me, and the lesson not stuck, what then? More scoldings? An eventual upgrade to spanking? How much leeway should be given based on the child’s personality? If the child is, say, mentally behind and the parents are skeptical of their ability to understand a verbal explanation or scolding, but the child is physically large and quick enough to evade methods of physical containment, is spanking then justified? I’m troubled by the implications of my own question, but I also recognize that children are not formed from cookie-cutters.
Bah. This verged into teal deer.
____
Sending good thoughts to the Redhead, and to you, Nerd. I wish you both the best.
____
I saw a study once (and now I can’t remember where that examined self-described revolutionaries and plotted them by academic major in college (or profession if they hand’t gone to college). People came from all sorts of majors and backgrounds, but there were some trends.
Right-wing revolutionaries are more likely to be engineers, mathematicians or lawyers. Left-wing revolutionaries are more likely to be artists or otherwise people who studied the humanities or social sciences. Non-engineering physical scientists were pretty evenly distributed, IIRC.
The hypothesis was that since engineering, math, and the law, being based on rules and laws, encourages a rule- and law-based mentality (and attracts people who already have this mentality). Conservativism features rules that must be obeyed and a tendency for black-and-white thinking.
The humanities, arts, and social sciences, by contrast, are people-based. A great deal of attention is paid to respecting different viewpoints, and in many cases, it is emphasized that there is no one right answer. Liberalism, especially socialism and communism are based on the group, the greater good, and sharing of resources evenly.
While of course this sort of analysis is simplistic – it utterly ignores the authoritarian/libertarian axis, for example – i do think there is a certain amount of truth to be found in it.
waltonsays
Seriously, Walton after hearing almost every one basically say “I couldn’t care less” when problems with the philosophy is pointed out and their disdain for minorities and women, Ron Paul is their freaking candidate.
Well, that’s the problem with modern American libertarianism right there. For some of them, the adage that “libertarians are just conservatives who want to smoke pot” isn’t so far off the mark.
The trouble is that the libertarian movement, in practice, is mainly run by and for affluent middle- and upper-class white people, and so those are the people whose interests it effectively serves. When the average white male corporate-funded mainstream libertarian talks about “freedom”, it’s mostly a prelude to an endless whine about taxes or regulation of business. They rarely appear to give a damn about the forms of state violence that hurt minorities and the poor, even though in principle they ought to be opposing those things.
Libertarians could be talking about the ways in which state coercion can hurt the poor and marginalized – like the atrocity of institutional racism in the criminal justice system, say, or the harm caused by restrictive immigration laws. But although some libertarians do talk about these issues (Radley Balko, for instance), the libertarian movement as a whole tends to ignore that stuff, and focuses on the issues where the money is and which play to their wealthy base. Which is why I don’t call myself a libertarian any more. (That, and the infestation of AGW-denialism and extreme anti-environmentalism in the libertarian movement, something which is seriously dangerous in the present circumstances.)
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Walton: I know you didn’t mean to make that claim. Enough people do, though (and the assumption is pretty blatant in the links I clicked through to skim), and it messes enough with the heads of otherwise healthy adult masochists, that you might want to be more careful to avoid appearing to imply it.
Happiestsadist: as well as the very basic correlation-causation problem. If it’s present in adulthood, it must have been caused in childhood, otherwise it wouldn’t be there, and it’s bad, therefore something that happened in childhood was damaging.
waltonsays
kristinc @ #312: Yeah, that really unsettled me as well. Adult people consensually fucking in ways they find fulfilling and enjoyable is not my definition of “damage”.
Lest there be any doubt about this question, I do not think that an interest in sexual masochism of the consensual adult kind is a sign of “damage”. I have never made that claim, and I don’t think it’s true. That isn’t at all what I was arguing.
===
Esteleth: Spanking is never justified. Restraining a child to prevent them hurting themselves or others is obviously justified, but there’s a categorical difference between that and deliberately inflicting pain on the child in order to punish them.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Walton, I agree. Like I said, I do not approve of spanking, and, should I ever have children, I will not spank.
The teal deer blathering that I posted @318 was mostly just me hammering my keyboard in a rather disjointed fashion. I do wonder, though, about the situations (and they do exist) where restraining the child is beyond the capabilities of the parents. I am not (not, not, not) advocating spanking as a solution there, I know too well how counterproductive that in fact can be (google “Judge Rotenberg Center” some time if you want to be horrified). I just wonder what the appropriate thing is.
Rey Foxsays
#318: That’s what thread bankruptcy looks like??
waltonsays
Meh. Sorry for being needlessly aggressive. I feel stressed and anxious (even more so than my usual state of mind), and I can’t even work out why. I’m guessing there’s something vitally important I should have done that I’ve forgotten to do, or something along those lines.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
@323 Bah.
Pteryxxsays
Nth’ing support for Nerd and the Redhead.
If they had merely scolded me, their fury so evident, would the lesson have stuck? If they had scolded me, and the lesson not stuck, what then? More scoldings? An eventual upgrade to spanking? How much leeway should be given based on the child’s personality?
For what it’s worth, I’m a tough aggressive sort, I was very obedient, and my parents never even mentioned physical punishment. They still reduced me to quivering terror and eventual PTSD.
Honestly I wonder how much parents end up punishing and dominating disobedient kids because the kids don’t trust them.
There’s a relevant passage from “Animals Make Us Human” about negative conditioning w.r.t. punishment (it’s easy, thoughtless, and creates resistance) but I dont’ have it here.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
That’s a very good point, pteryxx.
Quite honestly, I think that one of the worst things that a parent can do is blatantly lie to a child. If the child is told, “If you do your homework, I’ll buy you ice cream,” and then there is no ice cream, the child – especially if this is a pattern – will stop believing what the parent says. Likewise, if the child is told, “If you don’t clean your room, you’ll be grounded for a week,” but the promised punishment doesn’t appear, then the parent is revealed as a pushover.
Overzealous punishments create fear. Uneven application of punishment creates fear and mistrust. It is a nasty, nasty cycle.
Silisays
Utterly and completely devoid of time and energy to catch up even remotely, but I have question for the learned audience:
Does anyone know if there’s any connection between the Odyssey’s Idomeneus and his foolish promise that forced him to sacrifice his son, and the Bible’s Jephthah who likewise had to give up his daughter? (And isn’t the story of Agamemnon and his daughter the same as well?)
Richard Austinsays
I wasn’t going to mention this, but since Pteryxx did, I’ll pile on…
I wasn’t ever hit. My mother once proudly commented that all it ever took was the mere threat of her being angry with me to get me to behave. This was also, to her, proof that I couldn’t be Aspie, since it proved I had enough empathy to know I’d done wrong and be sorry for it.
My response was that, no, it wasn’t empathy – it was sheer terror. My father had left when I was 6; they divorced, but no one told me what was going on. From then on, I was dead terrified that if I did anything at all to upset my mom, she’d leave too. I couldn’t tell the difference between “momentary angry” and “packing my bags and leaving you angry.”
This obviously didn’t go over well. But, yeah, punishment doesn’t need to be physical to be abusive.
I still think spanking (or even threats of spanking) are to be avoided in any situation possible. Where that line is, I don’t know, and that “I don’t know” is part of the reason I never want children.
John Moralessays
Nerd, my sympathy for you and the Redhead.
(Seems like you’ll be doing extra travelling for a while.)
Re: spanking
Well, spanking was considered the punishment of choice when I was a kid, too. I don’t think is scarred me, but i remember vividly the emotion I associated with it:
Red hot firey rage and fury.
My parents didn’t hit that hard that I would have cried from the pain. I was a tough kid and didn’t cry much over pain (I wouldn’t have gotten anything done if I had. Too many bruised knees, cut fingers, etc.).
But the rage about this violation of my bodily autonomy, and the betrayal of trust, that hurt.
I think there are two things to distinguish:
Restraining a child in order to prevent damage is much different than spanking as a punishment.
Quite honestly, I think that one of the worst things that a parent can do is blatantly lie to a child.
Yep, threats without consequences make you a ridiculous joke.
Side-tip: Don’t try to rear your child using punishment and rewards. The reward for doing your homework is getting your homework done.
Algernonsays
I couldn’t tell the difference between “momentary angry” and “packing my bags and leaving you angry.”
Me either. My mom, FWIW, always said the same thing. She used emotions well. Even the slight look of disappointment was enough to mortify me and fill me with self loathing. I also had the added fear of “momentary angry” vs “batshit crazy (be scared but don’t *look* scared)” and “momentary angry (justified)” vs “momentary angry (it’s not really my fault but it’s easier if I take it and we never talk about it after)” and then just “oh shit these people will kill each other.”
It isn’t surprising, then, that she was able to wield rejection and withholding well, as tools.
Nerd
Best wishes for the Redhead. I hope you fine a good location.
Happiestsadistsays
Esteleth @ #327:And with that, you summed up exactly why I’m a fucked up shell of a person now. Whee.
At least I have dark-chocolate lavender biscotti. Even if I need to dunk it in soy milk because of the whole “cracked-tooth/likely concussion” debacle on Sunday.
Happiestsadistsays
Also, to Nerd: while I can’t offer any advice, I do wish you both strength and luck. *passes another mug of internet ale*
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Side-tip: Don’t try to rear your child using punishment and rewards. The reward for doing your homework is getting your homework done.
When my younger kid was small I even swore off certain kinds of praise that often seem to function as rewards. More as an intriguing experiment than because I thought it was a live or die parenting issue, but the effect was fascinating: when I forbade myself to say “good job!” over and over again I ended up saying things that actually meant stuff, like “it is so good to have an extra pair of hands to help with this” or “you picked up super fast! We even have time for an extra story!”
I fell completely out of the habit of reward-praise without even realizing it, and now hearing parents say “good job! good job! good job!” to their small children over and over and over sounds …. weird. Kind of almost lobotomizingly weird.
More sympathies for Nerd and well-wishes for Redhead.
On a couple of other topics:
Yes, the lunchbox discussion was as described. A letter-perfect yes, but game, and without any of the MRA/PUA baggage. Given that Ben was stuck here on something so simple as making a packed lunch, his chances of learning anything more complex and challenging were basically zip.
Not that I entirely endorse transactional analysis, but the pattern-spotting part of it is very useful.
And on spanking – I really don’t think an occasional swat in extreme circumstances (eg running out onto the road) is likely to hurt a child noticeably. It may not be the best option, but we all fall short of perfection at times. At least the lesson there isn’t “violence is always the answer”, because it’s so rare. It’s more like “people can lash out in extreme situations”, which has the merit of being true. Especially if you can discuss it later.
The problem arises when it’s routine or extreme or both. A lot of truly terrifying child abuse is hidden under the mantle of parental discipline – the Pearl’s “Train Up a Child” book is a very influential case in point. Pure evil. And it passes under the radar a lot, because people think it’s merely about the same mild spanking that they were brought up with.
Well, I think I can look comfortably back and see that at least that wasn’t a problem: Whatever I did, my parents’ love for me was never in question.
Although my mum has always been a manipulative asshole sometimes. Queen of bad conscience she was, but as long as she was healthy she never tried to pull the crap she’s been pulling the last year.
Which is the hope I have for my own attempt at parenting:
I try to give them the safety and security that I will never leave them (well, sure, accidents happen, but they’re not something you want to prepare your kids for) and that I will always love them. I hope that will be more important than the mistakes I’ll obviously make.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
And on spanking – I really don’t think an occasional swat in extreme circumstances (eg running out onto the road) is likely to hurt a child noticeably.
I don’t think that what you are talking about is intended to cause pain as much as command attention. When my daughter was very young a slap on the hand was much more effective at getting her attention than raising my voice.
Nerd, is it possible you could spend the night there occasionally? I want to fix this and I can’t.
+++++++++++++++++++++
I can fix a lot of things, and as Red Green advises, I’m handy to have around.
++++++++++++++++++++
I say this in the most optimal way; I’m glad my parents are dead. I loved them, they loved me, but boy were they fucked up. It’s so difficult to see your parents as people, they did the best they could. at some point one has to take responsibility for ones self.
This is a long way around of saying ‘swatting a toddler’ is completely different from a beating. and I don’t care what the implement was, just fucking don’t do it.
(Wow, where did that come from!? Sometimes I don’t know what I’m going to say until I type it.)
KGsays
Amusing UK news story: someone called (until today), Sir Fred Goodwin (of whom few not-Brits will ever have heard, but he’s quite the hate figure here) has had his knighthood revoked, and is now plain Mr. Fred Goodwin again. Whether he has to go to Buckingham Palace and go through the knighting ceremony backwards, I couldn’t say – Walton will know. He was CEO of the Royal Bank of Scotland (there was nothing royal about it AFAIK) when it went belly-up in 2008 and had to be effectively nationalised. (It’s currently 80%+ publicly owned and this event follows on the heels of a recent brouhaha about a bonus of just under £1 which was to be awarded to its current CEO, despite a huge plunge in its share price over the last year – under pressure, said CEO nobly declined it, and will have to get by somehow on his £1.25 million salary.) Fred was knighted “for services to banking”, and is being deknighted for “bringing the honours system into disrepute”. Quite how you can bring something so thoroughly disreputable into disrepute, I don’t know. They didn’t de-lord Jeffrey Archer when he was convicted of perjury and imprisoned, so as Goodwin hasn’t actually been convicted of any offence, it seems rather unfair by comparison, though I can’t say I’m shedding any tears for him.
changeable monikersays
Hmm.
What if a child is hurt by, say, having to forcibly pick them up off the floor? (“Can you brush your teeth please?” “I’m too tired.” “You weren’t five minutes ago when you were jumping around on the sofa.” *pickup* “Owww!”)
What if a child hurts themselves while you’re restraining them; blocking a kick to the shins, for example? (“Owww, you hurt me!” “No, you hurt yourself.”)
What if a child shows emotional distress as a result of a reasonable request? (“Can you put your shoes on please, we’re late and you have to be at school in seven minutes.” “I told you never to say that again!” *kidrage*)
[I could go on. Maybe kid #1 is just difficult. The others are better.]
This shit is hard. It’s not helped by absolutist comments from non-participants sitting in the peanut gallery. :-/
KGsays
Oh, and one more addition to the best wishes for the Redhead and her Nerd.
I guess I can’t claim to be thread bankrupt, since I’m going to reply to specifics; I’m just many payments in arrears…
Nerd, add mine to the pile of hugs for you and the Redhead!
*** Sarchasm is the official word of the day!
***
Re spanking: I confess I didn’t read Walton’s links (and I agree strongly with the observations that adult interest in sexual pain play ≠ damage), but I’m not so sure about this…
the psychosexual component [of spanking] seems to exist more in the minds of the adults than in those of the children.
I was spanked as a child, both at home and at school (the latter was rarely carried out, but well known to be a possibility). It is, of course, purely anecdotal, but I can recall daydreaming about being spanked by female elementary school teachers in a way that was, in retrospect, clearly erotic, even though I was too young at the time to have any real notion of what sex even was, or any conscious way of identifying erotic thoughts. I think by the time a child is physically large enough to be plausibly spanked, s/he already has some sense of the buttocks as private parts, and may well have some proto-sexual awareness regarding them. It doesn’t strike me as farfetched to suggest that spanking can be a confusingly mixed stimulus for children, even without adults projecting their own sexuality onto the situation.
But, of course, I also agree that there’s no need to go there in order to condemn corporal punishment of children: You had me at hitting kids.
I also agree with the several people who’ve commented that threats and yelling aren’t much better than actual hitting. We never hit our daughter and rarely raised our voices (and even then, only in alarm, rather than in anger)… and she turned out quite nicely. Of course, she also didn’t test our resolve on these matters: I can’t recall any transgressions that would’ve merited a spanking even if we had believed in them. How the arrow of causality figures into these facts is left as an exercise for the student. ;^)
***
Side-tip: Don’t try to rear your child using punishment and rewards. The reward for doing your homework is getting your homework done.
Heh. Not a parental situation, but I recall a high-school math teacher who responded to every one of our requests for extra credit with “virtue is its own reward.”
So by not doing punishment/reward you mean to raise by clearly showing the results of actions are consequences to the actions rather than external actions of authority figures?
waltonsays
They didn’t de-lord Jeffrey Archer when he was convicted of perjury and imprisoned, so as Goodwin hasn’t actually been convicted of any offence, it seems rather unfair by comparison, though I can’t say I’m shedding any tears for him.
AFAIK, it would require an Act of Parliament to deprive someone of a peerage. In medieval times, a peer who was convicted of high treason usually lost his peerage (just before being executed) by an Act of Attainder, but obviously this does not happen in modern times. The last time an Act of Parliament was used to deprive someone of a peerage was the Titles Deprivation Act of 1917, by which those British peers fighting for the German side in WWI (most of whom were Hanoverian relatives of the Royal Family) forfeited their British titles.
By contrast, most orders of knighthood and other decorations can be removed at the will of the Sovereign (acting on the advice of the Honours Forfeiture Committee) where retention of the appointment or award would bring the honours system into disrepute. See this written parliamentary answer from 2009. The Committee has no power over peerages, however.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
Afaik I received precisely one parental swat, ever (my mother, on the occasion of grabbing me back from running straight into traffic). As far as I can remember, she said – when she could speak again from the heart-stopping shock – that it was so I wouldn’t forget. I suppose it’s possible that I do remember precisely because it only ever happened that once, and under the circumstances I think it was perfectly OK for her to have one split second of reaction like that anyway.
I very much agree that a punishment-based system is unutterably fucked up. People like the Pearls make me wish I could shut their mouths permanently by any means necessary; I don’t mean I’d vote for the death penalty, but I wish I could stop them from spewing their poison and getting children tortured and killed.
.
.
.
.
Totally separate thing: does anyone out there by any remote chance have a pdf (or whatever file format) of I Got Rhythm – just piano chords for a jazz standard accompaniment, so that a melody line instrument (clarinet) can play the head and then improvise over the top? Because the one sonspawn had, and which he needs for his audition on Sunday, has gone missing … and nobody can remember what book it came from (it was just a single sheet of photocopied A4). I know it’s a long shot, but the horde is nothing if not multifaceted, multitalented and multidisciplinary so it’s always worth asking … anyway, just in case, any and all pdfs (or whatever file format) gratefully received at entrenous (at symbol thingy) aporias (little dot-like dot) net. Many thanks if anyone can help!
[I could go on. Maybe kid #1 is just difficult. The others are better.]
I know you weren’t really asking *me*, so this is just thoughts… but I think it has to depend on the kid. Not that I have any experience past my own; and I was a damned bombproof kid – I didn’t have tantrums, I didn’t disobey or try to manipulate my parents (didn’t even realize that was an *option* until some TET or other this past year) so obviously whatever worked on me, isn’t going to work the same way on a kid who DOES pull those kinds of tricks. Because kids are also people, just ignorant, curious, impulsive ones. Damned if I know how to counter-manipulate a neurotypical; but the few times I have worked with kids, they have absolutely LOVED me and been nice to me, and I’ve been told it’s because I talk to them as equals. *spreads hands*
Most of what I’m learning comes from animal training and Temple Grandin. Right now I’m reminded of what she says about genetically high-strung horses versus calm ones: a trainer can scare a horse to teach it, and a calm horse will habituate to the scaring, while a high-strung horse will get more and more afraid, and a *traumatized* horse may go berserk or turn mean and fight back. But that depends on the horse, not the technique.
waltonsays
Yeah, the peerage removal act showed just how well the Victorian idea of all nations being ruled by one family fit in during an age of nationalism.
Oh, I wasn’t saying that this was a good thing. (WWI was a horrible atrocity by any sane person’s definition, and I strongly oppose nationalism and aggressive war in all circumstances, as you know.) Just explaining the legal situation.
The reason for the Act was that the former ruling houses of Hanover and of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha were both directly descended in the male line from British royalty, and held British peerages. (The House of Hanover was descended from Queen Victoria’s uncle Prince Ernest Augustus, and that of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha from her consort Prince Albert through her second son Prince Alfred.) So there were several people who held both British and German royal titles at the outset of WWI (hence the 1917 Act).
(Another interesting genealogical fact: Queen Victoria’s eldest child, Victoria, Princess Royal, married Frederick III of Germany, and was thus the mother of the infamous Kaiser Wilhelm. If Britain had had equal primogeniture instead of male-preference primogeniture, the Princess Royal, rather than her younger brother Edward, would presumably have inherited the British throne on Queen Victoria’s death. Since Princess Victoria died a few months after her mother, the throne would then have passed to Wilhelm, who would have been simultaneously King of Great Britain and Emperor of Germany. I guess this could probably make an interesting plot for an alternate-history novel.)
Walton, now tell of all of the British royals who were Nazis and Nazi sympathizers.
Indeed, there were some. For instance: one of Queen Victoria’s and Prince Albert’s grandchildren, Charles Edward (Karl Edouard), who inherited Prince Albert’s throne as Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, was one of those who forfeited his British titles as a result of the 1917 Act, by virtue of having fought for Germany in WWI. In 1918, with the abolition of the German subnational monarchies and the creation of the Weimar Republic, he was also forced to abdicate his ducal throne. He subsequently joined the Nazi Party, and reportedly tried to negotiate a pact between Britain and Nazi Germany before the outbreak of WWII. After the war, he was fined heavily by a denazification court, and lived the rest of his life in seclusion.
waltonsays
(Not that any of the above had anything more than a tangential relation to the conversation. I just have a geeky interest in the history and genealogy of royalty. Maybe I should have taken up collecting Pokémon cards instead.)
Rey Foxsays
Best of wishes to the Redhead household.
I am fucking pissed off at the Susan G Komen for the Cure is stopping it’s partnership with Planned Parenthood. Can’t mainstream organization stand up to the fucking wingnuts?
Yeah, I wish that I donated to them, so I could stop.
This cracked article is not something I expected to see there. It’s a very pleasant surprise. (P.S. Don’t read the comments unless you want little pieces of brain and skull on your walls.)
Antiochus Epiphanessays
changeable moniker: Praxis is is different kettle of corn entirely, innit. We have a five year old that tests our resolve energetically. She will one day defeat us…I just hope by then she has some sense of her own.
Dang, it’s 7:30 pm at the end of January here in Chiwaukee, and it’s still 50 degrees out. One weird winter so far. I still have the snow thrower at ready though.
Thanks for all the well wishes and grog. I think we’ve identified our first choice, but we’re still working on numbers two and three. So far, since I’ve been totally in my insurance’s network, my co-pays have been minimal, and both of us hope to keep it that way.
A toast to the patient women and men who carry out the various forms of therapy on stroke patients. I’m seeing the fruits of your labor with the Redhead. Thank-you! Thank-you! Thank-you!
What horrified me about the data walton linked to was how it appeared to assume a masochistic adult sexual identity = damage. Just, no.
A lot of that research seems to be either chronologically dated or, if you will, ideologically dated (e.g., based entirely in Freud). I wonder if current research in child and/or sexual development is freer of kink-shaming?
Bill D.: Children, generally speaking, have sexual feelings and impulses; even small children masturbate. (This does not make it okay for adults to perform sexual acts with them, of course.) So, yes, it’s conceivable that being spanked can create erotic associations with spanking for them.
And, unfortunately, the history of corporal punishment in schools indicates that punishers not infrequently indulge their libidos as well as their physical aggression. When you read the Pearls or James Dobson on spanking, the subtext leaps off the page at you. Or at least it does if you’re not a right-wing authoritarian with a fucked-up relationship toward sexuality.
Regarding Wrong Paul and libertarianism: Walton, I have to agree with Ing. Even libertarians who lean more to the left, such as Corey Robin, seem to have a blind spot when it comes to how women, people of color, and sexual/gender minorities will fare under strong local law and weak federal law. And Robin has no excuse for this oversight, as his theory of “democratic feudalism” states that wingnuts wish to weaken federalism for just this reason.
Richard Austin: I wish people would not correlate ASDs with lack of empathy. The spectrum doesn’t necessarily make you less empathetic, but it impairs your ability to demonstrate empathy and to fake it for social purposes. IME some of the least empathetic people I’ve ever met have been extremely socially smooth.
I’ll repeat what I said at Greg Laden’s: I’ve never been a fan of the Komen Foundation, due to its promotion of what Gayle Sulik calls “breast cancer culture,” with its infantilization of women, its simplistic feel-good messages, and its glossing over any discussion of environmental carcinogens that corporate donors might find uncomfortable. Their dumping Planned Parenthood, sadly, validates my distrust.
Ok this Susan G Koman for the Cure bullshit has me torn as fuck.
They do good work. They help women.
And now that they’ve caved into pressure they’ll still help women, but in a diminished way, in more ways that just the money they raise. I understand the feeling of wanting to apply the counter pressure to the anti-choice assholes pressure, but I also understand that despite that this obvious lapse in guts to stand up to them they still have a goal of helping women.
It really fucking pisses me off because it’s forcing people to make a choice in not supporting a group that ultimately will still help women’s health issues. They’ll just now also be a willing participant in demonizing a very important part of women’s health issues.
Mother fucking fuck. FUCK
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
In honor of Opportunity starting it’s ninth Earth year on Mars, picture of Sojourner, Spirit/Opportunity, and Curiosity (in transit, about six months from landing) showing the increase in size of the rovers over the years.
waltonsays
Bill D.: Children, generally speaking, have sexual feelings and impulses; even small children masturbate. (This does not make it okay for adults to perform sexual acts with them, of course.) So, yes, it’s conceivable that being spanked can create erotic associations with spanking for them.
And, unfortunately, the history of corporal punishment in schools indicates that punishers not infrequently indulge their libidos as well as their physical aggression. When you read the Pearls or James Dobson on spanking, the subtext leaps off the page at you. Or at least it does if you’re not a right-wing authoritarian with a fucked-up relationship toward sexuality.
That’s more-or-less what I was trying to say, albeit clumsily. (My brain is not working well today.) But I’ll drop the subject for now.
====
I want a diet soda. *whines*
Therrinsays
showing the increase in size of the rovers over the years
“Wee, not so wee, and frikkin HUGE!”
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
I wonder if current research in child and/or sexual development is freer of kink-shaming?
I noticed that it was all dated too and wondered, can there really be no more recent material than this. Maybe there is, and maybe it’s less shamey, that would be nice.
Based entirely on completely unscientific anecdote-sharing, I wonder if it’s simply more likely that childhood spankings (and the attendant feelings) feature more prominently in the memories of kinksters because as children they were, well, budding kinksters.
Based entirely on completely unscientific anecdote-sharing, I wonder if it’s simply more likely that childhood spankings (and the attendant feelings) feature more prominently in the memories of kinksters because as children they were, well, budding kinksters.
Indeed. There are also plenty of adults who have an interest in adult consensual spanking and who were never spanked as children. I know this is only anecdotal, and I’m not aware of any up-to-date empirical research on the subject, but I’m inclined to doubt that there’s any particular relationship between childhood experience and the development of that particular interest. I certainly wasn’t asserting that such a relationship exists.
(Admittedly I didn’t make my argument very clear, and should have explained myself better.)
I wonder if it’s simply more likely that childhood spankings (and the attendant feelings) feature more prominently in the memories of kinksters because as children they were, well, budding kinksters.
Could there be a genetic component, I wonder?
cicely (Now With 37.5% Less Fleem!!)says
On the subject of lying to children with threats of punishment that are never carried out, there’s nothing quite so useless, or so productive of a lack of trust in a parent, than very outrageously, blatently implausible, over-the-top lies.
For instance, a perenniel threat to one of my sisters was that as punishment for (fill in trivial misdeed), she was going to come home from school and she’d find the horse dead in the pasture. Really? Having spent much good money (that we could ill afford in the first place) on a horse, its veterinary bills and its upkeep, is it likely that Parent would actually shoot the horse, and thereby recoup none of that money? No. Now, just as good from Sister’s viewpoint (slave of The Beast as she was) would have been a threat that she’d come home from school to find the horse’s new owner loading him into a trailer. But, no, by going for the “kill”, Parent threw away any chance that the threat would be carried out, given everything we knew about hir personality.
After a few thousand rounds of this (tailored to the individual, of course), is it any wonder that none of us trust or believe Parent? I think not.
–
Hours of top-of-the-voice shrieked ranting, wherein everything you ever did (or are presumed to have done) is dragged out and raked over afresh, don’t tend to inspire feelings of affection, either.
–
(Neither does constant shaming and belittlement.)
–
(I believe that I would have preferred to have more spankings, instead.)
–
Rey Foxsays
Rev 369: Could you post another version of that pic that is big enough to decipher?
Bill D.: Children, generally speaking, have sexual feelings and impulses; even small children masturbate.
Oh, I absolutely agree, and didn’t mean to undersell this aspect. As a culture, I suspect we vastly underestimate — and probably undervalue — the sexual nature of children, adolescents, and teens. Of course, no such comment can be made without instantly adding…
(This does not make it okay for adults to perform sexual acts with them, of course.)
…with which all decent people must agree. I should add that I didn’t mean to suggest that adults who administer corporal punishment necessarily have anything sexual in their minds (even subconsciously… though your point about the Pearls and Dobson is well taken). But even if the adults’ motives are “pure” (seriously, how “pure” can you be if you’re hitting a child, but…), this…
So, yes, it’s conceivable that being spanked can create erotic associations with spanking for them.
… can still be the outcome.
kristinc:
Based entirely on completely unscientific anecdote-sharing, I wonder if it’s simply more likely that childhood spankings (and the attendant feelings) feature more prominently in the memories of kinksters because as children they were, well, budding kinksters.
Mebbe so, but I’m not sure whether my own previously shared completely unscientific anecdote supports the hypothesis. My adult self is, at best, only theoretically kink-curious, with slightly kink-leaning tastes in erotica, and even that came relatively late in my adult sexual development: I could hardly call myself a “kinkster,” and I think it’d be a stretch to attribute my childish proto-erotic response to spanking to a budding kinky orientation.
What I do quite seriously worry about is that spanked children will come to associate sexual feelings — for which they may not yet even have words or coherent concepts — with admonition and disapproval; that can’t possibly be the basis for healthy, sex-positive development. Kids are going to encounter enough reasons in our fucked up culture to feel guilty about their sexuality; we should probably avoid starting them off that way in early childhood, eh?
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Sorry rey that’s from failbook. That’s all i’ve got.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Walton:
There are also plenty of adults who have an interest in adult consensual spanking and who were never spanked as children.
Yep. And I know of at least a couple whose completely non-corporal discipline (being lectured and time-out on a special stool, respectively) involved those childish sexual feelings.
Daisy Cutter:
Could there be a genetic component, I wonder?
The most fascinating informal hypothesis I ever heard was that maybe it’s rooted in the same genetic component as substance abuse issues. Not that it’s destructive like substance abuse, obviously, but that the drive to mind-altering activities could be a common root. I doubt we’ll know much about it being genetic until people stop being shamed out of admitting it, though.
Bill D: Yes of course that’s not the only reason for remembering spanking or even remembering being aroused by it; I was thinking in terms of group data.
What I do quite seriously worry about is that spanked children will come to associate sexual feelings — for which they may not yet even have words or coherent concepts — with admonition and disapproval; that can’t possibly be the basis for healthy, sex-positive development.
Agreed. That’s no good at all.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Annnnnnnnd we just found lice on the other kid, the one we thought was uninfested. FML. Starting the third sanitation process.
The project we’re doing for Operating Systems (quantifying the effects of threads on processing speed) is fairly straightforward: given an input list of N numbers, output the corresponding Fibonacci numbers. For those that don’t remember:
This is fairly easy to implement iteratively. So, that’s how I did it. Net result: For input values ranging from 1 to 92*, I was able to process a million input numbers in about half a second. That’s not enough to do analysis on; the actual processing time gets overwhelmed by the setup and teardown, plus the overhead of timing.
So I reimplemented the function in a recursive style, hoping it would be slower.
It was.
For a test run, I created a smaller data set of only 10,000 input numbers. So, I started the program running.
And I waited.
And waited.
And waited.
Fifteen minutes later, I killed the process because the log file was approaching 2GB in size.
Eventually I realized something. This implementation does no memoization, so every time Fibonacci(n) is computed, it has to recompute Fibonacci(n-1) and Fibonacci(n-2). When Fibonacci(n-1) is computed, it has to recompute Fibonacci(n-2) and Fibonacci(n-3).
As you can see, Fibonacci(n-2) gets recomputed twice. Each of those computations recomputes Fibonacci(n-3), plus the computation stemming from Fibonacci(n-1), for a total of three. The two computations of Fibonacci(n-2) and the three computations of Fibonacci(n-3) each recompute Fibonacci(n-4), for a total of five. Fibonacci(n-5) gets recomputed eight times, Fibonacci(n-6) gets recomputed thirteen times, and so on.
In other words, Fibonacci(n-x) gets recomputed Fibonacci(x + 1) times. Keep in mind that Fibonacci(92) is 12,200,160,415,121,876,738. So, when I tried to compute Fibonacci(92), it would have computed Fibonacci(1) twelve quintillion times.
Good thing I didn’t wait.
* I didn’t pick those numbers for the reason you think, Nat King Cole be damned. Fibonacci(92) happens to be the largest that will fit in an unsigned 64-bit integer.
Annnnnnnnd we just found lice on the other kid, the one we thought was uninfested.
Lice find a way.
I’m guessing, at least, that you don’t have the added complication of feeling sympathy for your vermin. I had to take out a mouse today from my kitchen, after my third try with the trap finally got him. Which resulted in a cute, furry little button eyed varmint with a broken neck, needing to be disposed of. So I’m feeling relieved that he’s no longer crapping behind the fridge or in the drawer I rarely open, or climbing around in the dirty dishes, but it will take a couple of days to shake the image of his little black beady eyes staring accusingly at me from that mangled body.
I really hate killing.
Therrinsays
Re-setting up my system on an old drive (reason for which is conveniently encapsulated here). In searching Google for FtB Killfile, one of the results was this, which made me chuckle.
I’m having second thoughts about the word chuckle, it sounds like a small amount of violence.
NuMadsays
Lice find a way.
Dr. Ian Malcolm?
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Well, NuMad, I think — oh, hang on a sec, I have to move my glass of water before it spills. Something seems to be shaking it.
llewellysays
walton | 31 January 2012 at 2:29 pm :
If we’re on the subject of libertarians, it amazes me that Ron Paul has somehow managed to convince everyone – both his supporters and his critics – that he is The Libertarian Candidate™.
Monsters like Ron Paul and Lew Rockwell have been working to transform the Libertarian movement into a Neo-Confederate movement since the 1980s. Since the Libertarian movement was already dominated by selfish white guys, it should not be surprising they succeeded.
Most Americans are not at all clear on the distinctions between the US Federal Government and its various layers of state and local governments. They don’t know a damn thing about the 14th Amendment, except, perhaps, that it had something do with slavery. When Ron Paul says he does not want the Federal Government to be able to make war, or to make drugs illegal, they cannot understand that he wants to turn these powers over to the states, because they can’t conceptualize a distinction between the Federal Government and the State Government. To them, it’s all “Government”.
Libertarians love to think they are particularly smart, and particularly well-informed, but they’re not; they’re just less able to recognize when they’ve gone wrong. And like most Americans, they too are often unable conceptualize a distinction between Federal Government and State Government. Thus Ron Paul’s neo-Confederism sounds like Libertarianism to them.
Like much of American politics, it’s not hard to understand once you recognize the widespread ignorance about how American government works.
chigau (違う)says
Partial bankruptcy but here goes:
more hugs for Redhead and her Nerd.
—-
feralboy12
the mice shitting in your cupboard were trying to kill you with hantavirus, your response was self-defence.
—-
in general
if hitting children with your hand could confuse them about the same hand being both loving and cruel, will the wooden spoon confuse them about cookie dough?
—–
Heard in passing:
Hit your head on the corner of tofu and die!
Pteryxxsays
What I do quite seriously worry about is that spanked children will come to associate sexual feelings — for which they may not yet even have words or coherent concepts — with admonition and disapproval; that can’t possibly be the basis for healthy, sex-positive development.
agreed – and for the screwed-up authoritarian-fetish punishers like the Pearls, that’s likely feature not bug. Hence, why there are horrific scare tactics like the radio program I heard: if you don’t spank your kids and spank them hard, they will SUFFER HORRIBLY and it’ll be all your fault. Not just damnation either – they had testimonies from born-again adults about how awful their lives of drugs, sin and STDs were because their parents didn’t beat it out of them early.
It also reminds me of this lovejoyfeminism article suggesting embryo-is-a-person beliefs cause post-abortion trauma, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy:
The truth is, those after affects Santorum speaks of are only suffered if you’ve spent your life believing that personhood begins at conception. If you honestly don’t believe a first trimester fetus is a person, then having an abortion won’t bother you at all. No trauma. No depression. No ruined life through the constant rememberence of the “child” you killed. Nada.
Sally
Have some virtual bread and salt at your new place. I really hope that this will be a new kickstart for you.
re:spanking
What if a child is hurt by, say, having to forcibly pick them up off the floor? (“Can you brush your teeth please?” “I’m too tired.” “You weren’t five minutes ago when you were jumping around on the sofa.” *pickup* “Owww!”)….
I think that unless you’re lucky with a very tame child, or have no self-respect whatsover, or don’t care much about the child being run over by a car, you don’t make it without restricting them bodily from time to time.
But I think it’s pretty different from spanking, because the act of restriction is connected with the situation at hand.
But putting a child over your knees and spanking them has no internal connection with, say painting at the wall whatsoever.
As I said, I recall the humiliation, that they were simply doing something because they were bigger and stronger, and that I was totally powerless
punishment vs. consequences
Yes, that’s what I’m trying to do. I admit that from the child’s perspective, especially when they’re pretty small, the difference might seem to be nonexistent.
The logical consequence of cutting holes into your clothes is that you’re not allowed to have the scissors, the consequence of sticking your bubble-gum on the floor is that you’re not getting any more, the logical consequence of being downright nasty to your sister is that the two of you can’t play together and if that means that one must stay at home while the other one visits grandma, the one staying at home is you. Which actually “punishes” the victim, too, because her sister so far hasn’t found anything yet that would make the little one love her and admire her any less.
But we’re not going to learn from the consequence of falling out of the window or running into the street.
And there are elements that look like rewards, like at the end of a trip to town there’s ice-cream and watching the water fountain.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
If my post appears dozens of times and clogs up your screen, I really apologise. All I’m seeing from here is that I hit “submit comment” and it just vanishes. And I really want to post to say thanks to Alethea! Dammit dammit dammit.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
Been having trouble posting – no idea why :-(
.
Alethea, thank you for the links! Much appreciated. I don’t play or anything, so I’ll have to show the spawn and ask him
after school, but I don’t think that’s what he’s after (all I can tell for sure is that these look different from the one
he was using before, which we’ve managed to mislay).
The closest we’ve come so far is the pdf accessed via the “free scores” page (link removed in case it was what kept causing this post to disappear the other dozen times I tried)
which spawn says is close but not quite what he’s after so we’re going to go on looking to see if we can find a better
one. It’s to give to the unknown (adult, teacher) accompanist; spawn won’t be using a score himself because this part
of the audition is all about improvising after the head.
Sounds to me like the main limit would be knowing what key you need it in.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
Hours of top-of-the-voice shrieked ranting, wherein everything you ever did (or are presumed to have done) is dragged out and raked over afresh, don’t tend to inspire feelings of affection, either.
My mother and grandmother were always very fond of draging out past trasngressions and using phrases like “I will never forgive/forget you that”, which would then be followed by silent treatments. Sometimes for days. It would slowly make me miserable, until I was ready to apologize for whatever I had or hadn’t done wrong, ever. On more memorable occasions, I was afraid they would really never talk to me any more or at least never treat me as anything more than someone you live with and have to address occasionally.
Worse: when they didn’t yell at me, just stopped talking to me. I usually had no idea what I’ve done. I don’t think I could liste to my child pleading for me to tell them what is wrong and just answer with “Nothing. Leave me alone.” and curt Yes and No for a while.
changeable monikersays
@opposablethumbs, another one, just in case (I haven’t diffed it vs. Alethea’s ones):
Ach verdammt, I’ve got a sore throat, acough and a headache, my health has really been letting me down those last weeks.
My mother and grandmother were always very fond of draging out past trasngressions and using phrases like “I will never forgive/forget you that”, which would then be followed by silent treatments. Sometimes for days. It would slowly make me miserable, until I was ready to apologize for whatever I had or hadn’t done wrong, ever.
Ah, yes, the silent treatment, one of mum’s specialities, too. Only that I’ve grown out of it, because the last time she tried it was before christmas, and yes, I mean 2011.
She went “I don’t want to talk to you” and I respected that. 3 days later she called and asked, very indignatedly, how long I was planning to keep that up until I talked to her again.
There are some things I have sworn that I will never do to my children.
Yes, sometimes I will tell them that no, I don’t want to chat now, and I don’t want to sing now, because what they did made me sad or angry, but that really is for me to calm down. They don’t have to do anything to make things up again.
Therrinsays
“Newt is like a flaming bag of poop you can vote for.”
–Stephen Colbert
Rolling in toxic stuff? Hmm…reminds me of politics.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
We’ve actually had a long talk a couple of years ago, when I explained how much this used to bother me (at that point I was responding to it similarly as you, but it still hurt sometimes). We have agreed that if one of us is mad and wants some peace and quiet it’s the best if she simply tells the other that she doesn’t want to talk at the moment. We leave each other alone for a while and there is no emotional manipulation that came with the unexplained silent treatments in my childhood.
Of course, sometimes we still end up yelling at each other, but we don’t argue nearly as much as we used to.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
So, we were just discussing The Secret at work. I argued that one of its greatest faults (besides being batshit) is victim blaming. Even if it makes someone feel better, others will feel worse because they will be convinced that their troubles are their own fault. Boss said that in that case, we would have to ban all religions. One other coworker and I looked at each other over the table, she said “Great, what’s the next step?” and I “Ooookay, where’s the problem?”
*evil laugh*
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
B-flat major, I think (I’m going by the one he said was a possible).
KGsays
What I do quite seriously worry about is that spanked children will come to associate sexual feelings — for which they may not yet even have words or coherent concepts — with admonition and disapproval; that can’t possibly be the basis for healthy, sex-positive development. – Bill Dauphin
But as I understand it, for many adult consensual S/M enthusiasts, arousing those and kindred feelings (shame, humiliation…) is a big part of the turn-on: “I’ve/you’ve been a naughty boy/girl” and must be punished”, etc.. Accepting that what consenting adults choose to do sexually is (except in the most extreme cases) unproblematic, it’s still of interest to ask whether childhood beatings have a causal role in pushing adult sexuality in an S/M direction – or for that matter, I guess, away from it – if only because the formation of adult sexuality is scientifically interesting in general.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
Thank you changeable moniker! This is great, I’ll have a couple of options for spawn to check out after school today (should be a relief after the chemistry exam … :-) ). Much appreciated!
McCthulhu's new upbeat 2012 nym.says
Some people take their Star Wars fanboy/girl schtick a little too far into the weird area (hint – you thought they smelled bad on the OUTside):
Ah, yeah, serious talks with mum. Not two concepts that go together well. So I’ll just prevent her from doing it to my kids.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
She got that dear in the headlights look, but didn’t really protest much. No one’s head exploded, I’m afraid. :)
But dissing religion was fun anyway.
Beatrice, anormalement indécentesays
That’s deer, damn it! I even previewed.
Algernonsays
But can’t a lot of these issues with not *knowing* whether people are enjoying something or not be solved if we worked more toward a culture where people would listen to each other and be more honest?
I mean, I’m not saying that’s a real possibility, but it does seem like a lot of the problem where things become abusive occurs at that point where the person abusing really doesn’t give a shit about the whole spectrum of thought and experience in the other.
Algernonsays
Or purposefully just wants to do damage to that person.
Algernonsays
In my case a lot of problems came/come from expecting adult-level reasoning in a small child, and projecting complex manipulative schemes onto rather simple situations.
An arcane bureaucracy of detached emotional contrivances becomes completely incapable of recognizing sincere emotion.
“Stop trying to make me feel guilty”
Algernonsays
Or better yet:
“Oh, yeah, now I look like the bad guy. You planned it that way didn’t you?”
Inescapable except by avoidance. There is no point in having people like this near you.
“Soul Train” creator Don Cornelius was found dead at his Sherman Oaks on home Wednesday morning.
Law enforcement sources said police arrived at Cornelius’ home around 4 a.m. He apparently died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, according to sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the case was ongoing.
The sources said there was no sign of foul play, but the Los Angeles Police Department was investigating.
Algernonsays
So, we were just discussing The Secret at work. I argued that one of its greatest faults (besides being batshit) is victim blaming. Even if it makes someone feel better, others will feel worse because they will be convinced that their troubles are their own fault. Boss said that in that case, we would have to ban all religions. One other coworker and I looked at each other over the table, she said “Great, what’s the next step?” and I “Ooookay, where’s the problem?”
*evil laugh*
LOL! I can envision that in comic format soooo well.
chigau (違う)says
Molly?
Minnie The Finn, avec de cèpes de Bordeauxsays
Hi Thread! A very bankrupt Minnie here. I’ve missed you all.
Only four days to go before Finland has a new president. The leader on the polls is a right wing business manager type of guy, while the other is a Green, openly gay guy.
Geez, I wonder which one wins?
Nevertheless, I went and voted today. Can you guess which one? :P
The black man pictured with his son on this mormon marketing page, http://mormon.org/choice/ is not mormon. He and the boy are subjects in a stock photo from Getty Images. Link to Getty photo.
LDS Church members in the USA have always been a sea of white with very brown or black faces. Now, with their “I’m a Mormon” advertising campaign, and with their revamped online presence, they are presenting themselves as having a significant number of members with dark skin.
Not true.
The PEW survey shows that about 2% of mormons were blacks in the USA up until a few years ago. Now the number in the PEW survey (last year) is 1%.
Church leaders are using advertising and websites to lie about their organization.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
I saw the funniest thing last night. I wore a crinoline petticoat under my skirt yesterday (because sometimes, a woman just wants to wear a big crinkly skirt). After I got home from work, I took it off. I tossed it aside and my cat was like OMG WTF IS THIS. She tried to get in a fight with it. I was initially worried (like, she could rip it apart), but then I realized that she was LOSING the fight. She got all tangled up in it and started mewing very pitifully. I let her out and put the crinoline away. It was fucking hilarious.
if hitting children with your hand could confuse them about the same hand being both loving and cruel, will the wooden spoon confuse them about cookie dough?
This. It never really makes sense.
I am quite grateful that my parents – even when they were in the throughs of fundiedom – never used TTUAC. *shudder* In fact, my mother has told that she has purposely burned one book in her life. She got a copy of TTUAC as a baby shower gift, read it, and set it on fire in horror. My visceral reaction to the idea of book burning aside, I struggle to determine a BETTER reaction to TTUAC.
Minnie The Finn, avec de cèpes de Bordeauxsays
Esteleth: you just made my day with the cat vs. crinoline story. Thank you for the mental image =)
Feralboy, #379: Last spring, after I had a pest control specialist seal up my attic, I had five instances of hibernating bats emerging into the house. In four cases, I was able to trap them live and put them outside. The fifth one, however, hid behind my sofa for a few days.
When I returned from work, it was on the living room floor and not in good shape. (My cat, who is a great mouser, was utterly baffled by this Fledermaus before her.) I wrapped the bat in a towel and took it outside, intending to set it loose. It had sunk its teeth into the towel. When I attempted to pry it loose, it died right before my eyes.
I felt terrible. I don’t know that I’d feel as terrible if it had been a mouse or a squirrel, but bats (a) eat 10x their weight in insects per night, (b) are threatened by fungus (at least little brown bats are), and (c) are just kind of neat*. I ended up putting it into a wooded area behind my house.
*I’m not a goth, but I’m goth-friendly. When I saw this article several years ago, I characterized the items therein as “Things into which to shit bats.”
Fuck off, Piero. Especially clueful, leaving that comment at Black Skeptics, too.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
Good for your mother, Esteleth. The only place a not-yet-burned copy of that book belongs is in a courtroom, marked Exhibit A for the prosecution.
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
*runs in!*
It’s 50° outside!
Time to put on my booty shorts!
*runs out!*
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Totally agreed, opposablethumbs. I think the fact that my mother has a degree in developmental education (with a specialty in special-needs children) may have helped temper the Kool-Aid and helped her recognize the horror that is TTUAC. IIRC, TTUAC advocates not allowing for special-needs status of children in disciplining them, which is just ass-backwards from everything we know about the best way to raise and care for such children.
Whatever her motive, I’m glad that horror was her response. Growing up in a home headed by someone fundie (and later fundie-lite) was hard enough without daily beatings.
*nomnomnom*
The only thing better than home-made chicken broth is home-made chicken broth that you just have to take out of the freezer and heat up.
cicely (Now With 37.5% Less Fleem!!)says
I don’t believe that my mother could have handed out the Silent Treatment if her life had depended on it. She’d have exploded from the pressure of unspewed bile.
–
“Newt is like a flaming bag of poop you can vote for.”
–Stephen Colbert
:) :) :) :)
–
Hi, Minnie! :)
–
Minnie The Finn, avec de cèpes de Bordeauxsays
Hi Cicely <3
Dunno if this is a double post, my net is unbelievably wonky tonight.
Anycase, it's worth saying hi to Cicely twice, or more =)
chigau (違う)says
Hi Minnie!
—
My br ou se r ty pe s tw o ch ar ac te rs at a ti me .
It’s all very Captain Kirk.
Irene Delsesays
From the annals of “at her age, I was building cardboard dolls houses”: 10-year old Clara Lazen discovered a new molecule, which her 5th grade chemistry teacher published in a paper with Clara as a co-author. (All right, Emily Rosa’s record is not broken yet, but this is all sorts of awesome.)
FFS, sorry that this is bringing stuff from another thread in but I’m really sick of people denigrating my tastes as basically signs of low sophistication and intellect and then acting like it’s SOOOOOOOOOO crazy I take a personal offense to that. Because apparently there’s no way I can enjoy Ruby Gloom and Citizen Cane.
Ing
If it helps, I love Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays because then there’s a Girl Genius update.
Somehow sounds like the people who want to tell you what you have to do in your bedroom with a consenting partner to qualify as liberated.
On other notes, it would have been a great scarf if I hadn’t cut a hole into it.
waltonsays
Children have died, in more than one case, as a direct consequence of their parents reading the Pearls’ child-abuse manual. Like Esteleth, I’m not in favour of burning books in general, but I’d make an exception for that one.
So, to summarize the state of American society… smoking pot: illegal. Jaywalking: illegal. Being resident in the country without authorization: illegal, especially if one happens to be of the wrong skin colour. Beating one’s children with a switch: perfectly fine. Don’t you just love those priorities?
=====
FFS, sorry that this is bringing stuff from another thread in but I’m really sick of people denigrating my tastes as basically signs of low sophistication and intellect and then acting like it’s SOOOOOOOOOO crazy I take a personal offense to that. Because apparently there’s no way I can enjoy Ruby Gloom and Citizen Cane.
I sympathize. In general, I hate it when people are snobbish about others’ tastes in music, art and literature. I wish people would learn the principle of de gustibus non est disputandum. From where I’m sitting, most of the distinction between “high” and “low” culture is basically class-based snobbery aimed at allowing Art People™ to assert their superiority over the proles. It’s fine to dislike a particular cultural genre, but asserting that it’s “inferior” or “unsophisticated” because one doesn’t personally like it is just snobbery.
Minnie The Finn, avec de cèpes de Bordeauxsays
Hi Chigau!
It’s just past 9 pm in Finnish time, and I’ve had a few beers to celebrate the fact that 1) this week is not a _busy_ week work wise and 2) I just heard this morning that there’s a truckload of work coming my way soon. Enough to employ not only myself but my future business partner as well, at least for the next 6-9 months.
Also, wish I had something really deep and meaningful to post, but no such luck. I should be happy to live in a society where bad things don’t happen regularly. So, all I can offer you is happy little minnies =)
Sandiseattlesays
Anybody read “Physics of the Future” –Michio Kaku?
Currently writing a summary of a paper written by a classmate and coauthored by the professor teaching the course.
This isn’t awkward at all.
changeable monikersays
Clara Lazen discovered a new, potentially explosive, molecule
FIFY. Even more awesome. ;)
David Marjanovićsays
O hai! I’m in Berlin! I don’t think I’ll be able to catch up soon! But I’ll try sometime, because of how interesting and important the subject is.
(I still know I’m intelligent; and lovable; and even relatively good-looking, despite becoming increasingly fat (90kg as of today *blecch*)
For this, it frankly matters a lot how fat is distributed; absolutes are secondary. I’ll stop here… except… *nerves wracked* …to make clear this isn’t an attempt to talk about your boobs.
That said, have you tried my chocolate diet? :-} You never responded to that part of that e-mail.
nor with my ability to see opportunities to achieve things and goals; rather, it makes anything I could possibly achieve feel about as significant/fulfilling than finishing a quest in WoW. Meaning, all this opportunity and ability I have, I can only use to reduce the nastiness of the depression. But nothing about my life now or about any possible futures really seems quite “worth living for”. For example, maintaining a 4.0 GPA is a goal of sorts, and it keeps me distracted enough for now, but once over, all I get out of this is a summa cum laude I can hang on my wall. pretty meaningless and pointless, ultimately.
“Ultimately”…
I’m prone to thinking about “ultimately”, too. But the result is always the same: “in the long run, we are all dead”. The sun is becoming brighter and brighter, so, all else being equal, Earth will turn into another Venus about 2 billion years from now, around the time when the Andromeda galaxy will collide with ours, which might perturb the solar system or who knows what. Then comes the whole red-giant business in 5 billion years, and then sometime later the material for star formation will be used up, so no more stars will form, and the old ones will go out. Then, all matter will very, very slowly keep turning into nickel (which has the most stable nuclei), and/or the protons will keep very, very slowly decaying radioactively. And then, it’s not unlikely that the Big Rip will come, and then it’s ALL OVER.
This reduces me to caring about myself and my own somewhat more immediate fun. Not that I’m having a lot of fun so far *sudden hug for Beatrice*, but… I sort of don’t take meatspace seriously enough to actually fall into the depression just above which I keep hovering. I keep being distracted by shinyinteresting things.
And so, to bed, after I’ll have spent an hour on a train, in a bus, and waiting a lot in -5 °C and constant wind. I don’t have Internet at home yet.
My br ou se r ty pe s tw o ch ar ac te rs at a ti me .
It’s all very Captain Kirk.
That’s what long FtB threads were like for me in IE8. Switch to Firefox (now at 10), and the problem will just about evaporate.
David Marjanovićsays
blockquote fail! (And this time I typed it right at the first attempt!) The paragraph above “‘Ultimately’…” is a quote.
And I figure I wanted to say something about what you can do with a summa cum laude degree. The question is whether you want any of those.
What do you think of “if you save just one life, you save the whole world”? Apart from the fact that it’s bullshit in the really long run, of course.
“This is New York City. You can get anything delivered,” said Pamela Doan, a spokeswoman for the purveyors of all things that vibrate and lubricate. The door-to-door of service works like this: whoopie-makers can scope out items online, then call Babeland to place an order. A receptionist at the shop, which is located on Bergen Street near Flatbush Avenue, then assigns the delivery to a cyclist at the forward-thinking bike messenger company, Clementine Courier. A pedal-grinder then drops a “discreet-looking box” at any address in Brooklyn, usually in less than an hour.
not that “ultimately”; I was thinking more on a human, individual scale. Since I don’t really feel emotionally very passionate or inspired by any possible goal I’d like to achieve with my life, and have nothing “to look forward to” in the sense of delaying gratification, it all just amounts to a temporary distraction from remembering the pointlessness (and incidentally, I don’t think getting religious would help any, either. Religious depressives also all just kill time and distract themselves until death).
What do you think of “if you save just one life, you save the whole world”?
well, it’s crap, even on the human scale. to make a positive contribution means having to offset the amount of social, economic, and ecological resources one’s life consumes; and since I’m a Westerner, that’s a lot of resources that any dogoodery would have to offset. My best hope on that account is that Walton will become a super-effective super-humanitarian, because then at least I can take partial credit for turning him into a progressive :-p
And I figure I wanted to say something about what you can do with a summa cum laude degree. The question is whether you want any of those.
well, that’s the problem. i figured out that I’m seriously lacking in “wanting” things. it makes it very hard to figure out what to do with myself for the rest of my life O.o
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
Dog knows that hitting a child in anger is fucking appalling, but there’s something horribly twisted about deliberately planning to do so like some parents do. And to write and publish a how-to-abuse-your-child manual? That’s so evil I can’t even begin to grasp it.
as I understand it, for many adult consensual S/M enthusiasts, arousing those and kindred feelings (shame, humiliation…) is a big part of the turn-on: “I’ve/you’ve been a naughty boy/girl” and must be punished”,
From my own experience, there’s a big difference. The kind of feelings you describe occur within a safe happy sexy bubble and they can ideally be owned and viewed from a step back if necessary to make sure everything that’s going on is okay — being able to say “I really like it when I feel small and helpless, so if you do something like X that’s a huge turn on”.
There’s also the kind of shame and humiliation that makes you feel like you’re fucked-up and broken for wanting sex, or for wanting the kind of sex you do. That second kind really messes you up, not least because you feel as if you can’t talk to anyone about it (because you’re a damaged, sick freak, remember).
And I imagine having sexual feelings connected to the idea that you genuinely did something wrong and disappointed a person you love and care about would be … very confusing at the least.
Richard Austinsays
My line is usually that I can’t save the world, but I can help teach the world to save itself.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Something that I’m becoming increasingly aware of is how much employment in positions above entry-level menial jobs requires connections and ass-kissing.
I got into a decent university based on my grades, test scores, and ability to pay for it. Okay, so far so good (well, the “ability to pay for it” is a serious issue). Upon graduation, I got a job at a high tier university doing some pretty high-profile work. How?
Well, I met my current boss at a conference. Okay. No real problem there. Luck, paying attention, and being willing to put myself out there.
Except that I was introduced to him by a friend of his, who worked at the school I studied at. Said friend didn’t know me particularly well, but (1) knew of me and (2) wanted to kiss the ass of my advisor. So, he introduced us and told my now boss that I was smart and a good worker.
I now have a job.
Specifically, a job that (as far as I know) was not advertised widely. So, I have a decent, well-paying job with room for advancement at a good university because some guy wanted to kiss my advisor’s ass (in return for something, of course) and thus introduced me to a friend of his who had decided he needed a new employee, but hadn’t gotten around widely advertising this fact yet.
I’m bothered by this. I’m bothered that I lucked into a job and someone that was just as qualified (or more-qualified) missed out on it due to luck.
Nutmegsays
Esteleth: That’s what scares me. Sure, I’m reasonably smart and I get good grades and I can probably write a decent thesis when the time comes. But I am shy as hell and completely incapable of schmoozing at conferences and all that other stuff that grad students are supposed to do. It doesn’t help that I look like I’m about 14, so no one takes me seriously until they know me.
I’m still not sure what I’m going to do about this. I guess I have a year or so to try to make myself less shy before I finish my M.Sc. After that, hopefully I can get into a Ph.D. program and delay entering the real world by 3 to 5 more years.
I really hate that connections and schmoozing are required for a career in science.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Hell, Ing. I stopped looking at that thread to prevent myself from saying anything that would irk you further. And here I find you.
FFS, sorry that this is bringing stuff from another thread in but I’m really sick of people denigrating my tastes as basically signs of low sophistication and intellect and then acting like it’s SOOOOOOOOOO crazy I take a personal offense to that. Because apparently there’s no way I can enjoy Ruby Gloom and Citizen Cane.
Anyone on that thread could have taken what I wrote that way. You were hardly singled out. And to be clear, I didn’t “act like you were crazy” to take offense. I didn’t even insinuate it. I just pointed out that you gave some offense, yourself.
Be that as it may, I’m not sure how criticism of an art form is really any different from criticizing a particular piece of art. There is no piece of art that isn’t atomizable to the point that someone couldn’t find something good to say about it. I’m sure that is true of the artform as well. But so what? Would you object to a person disliking a single comic book, or simply their saying so?
Now consider this: you yourself said that 90% of comic books are irredeemably stupid. Therefore, you are only 10% less snobby than I am, and yet you feel that this is some kind of critical benchmark that renders you justifiably offended and me intolerably offensive. How fucking outraged should someone feel who likes more than 10% of the comic books that they read by your highly insensitive comment?
Nonetheless, a failing that I have is the tendency to inflame outrage in others rather than calm it. Whether your outrage was justified or not, I was an asshole to be insensitive to that. It won’t happen again.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Nutmeg, I get you. I’m on the autistic spectrum, rather antisocial, and when I’m nervous (like, when I’m in a high-stakes social setting) my symptoms really flare. Which is problematic, because people tend to be skeptical of the person who says in an artificially high voice (speaking very rapidly) that they are totally competent and intelligent, while flapping her hands around.
That luck – having a low-stakes meeting – saved me from what would have been several rounds of embarrassing myself publicly to no avail,
Antiochus Epiphanessays
I wish people would learn the principle of de gustibus non est disputandum.
This just means that differences in matters of taste can’t be resolved objectively. Sometimes the goal of a discussion of matters of taste is not to resolve differences but to articulate them. This hardly violates the principle.
John Moralessays
Jadehawk @450,
i figured out that I’m seriously lacking in “wanting” things. it makes it very hard to figure out what to do with myself for the rest of my life
Well, you don’t lack want to figure out what to do with yourself for the rest of your life.
(If you procrastinate enough, it will become moot)
Her mother is in the comments, whining about how “intolerant” everyone is of her intolerance. The mother’s name, appropriately, is Kathleen Kositzky Crank.
One hand reaches out
And pulls a lost soul from harm
While a thousand more go unspoken for
And they say, ‘what good have you done, by saving just this one?
It’s like whispering a prayer in the fury of a storm’
And I hear them saying
‘You’ll never change things
And no matter what you do
It’s still the same thing’
But it’s not the world that I am changing
I do this so
This world will know
That it will not change me
Nutmegsays
That is good luck, Esteleth. I’m not on the spectrum, but I’m not exactly Ms. People Skills either, and my shyness is probably bordering on social anxiety. I do fine when I can talk about research – it’s the plain old socializing that’s the problem.
I think the trick for me will be meeting a potential future employer when I don’t realize they’re a potential future employer. Either that, or meeting them in a highly structured situation where I know the rules.
At the moment, I’m just going to concentrate on writing a kick-ass paper and hope that that carries me through.
cicely (Now With 37.5% Less Fleem!!)says
Esteleth, you leave that damned gift horse alone. Its dentition is not your problem.
–
KGsays
being able to say “I really like it when I feel small and helpless, so if you do something like X that’s a huge turn on”. – kristinc
“Small and helpless” seems to me very different from “ashamed and humiliated”; and I think it’s significant that the language used in (at least, many stereotypical) S/M scenes is very reminiscent of a parent (or more generally, punishing adult authority figure) / “bad” child setup.
But I admit, this is outside my personal experience, both as a child (I was occasionally slapped, but always once or twice in immediate anger, never in a ritualistic way), and as an adult.
Her mother is in the comments, whining about how “intolerant” everyone is of her intolerance. The mother’s name, appropriately, is Kathleen Kositzky Crank.
Oh yes, she’s got her knickers in a knot there. It’s really, really nasty of all those people to have pity on her daughter and to blame her.
Seriously “best birthday present ever”?
How fucked up do you have to be, even at 14. The world doesn’t revolve around you.
Esteleth
There is probably somebody in this world more qualified than you for your job.
Are you actually qualified to do it? Do you do it well?
If both answers are yes, then, congratulations, you’re doing a job you’re qualified for well.
And probably in a crioline.
Rey Foxsays
From Ms. Crank’s many Thinkprogress rebuttals:
You know, marriage has been defined one way throughout all of human history.
Poor kid needs a new anthropology teacher.
(somewhere in Maryland, Mattir stirs…)
Pteryxxsays
Re “for all your dildo emergencies”: I snicker’d because that sex toy shop’s near Flatbush Avenue. >_>
as I understand it, for many adult consensual S/M enthusiasts, arousing those and kindred feelings (shame, humiliation…) is a big part of the turn-on: “I’ve/you’ve been a naughty boy/girl” and must be punished”,
…but I see that kristinc has done a better job (@454) than I ever could’ve. I will just add a couple of personal thoughts:
* My own interest in kink is not of this sort: I’m not particularly interested in erotic humiliation or power exchange. Instead, I’m interested in pain as an element of sexual pleasure, in way similar to the way I’m interested in spiciness as an element of culinary pleasure. This, BTW, makes it hard for me to find my ideal kinky erotica, since most spanking porn is about roleplaying punishment and humiliation, and very little of it is about actual lovemaking that incorporates consensual pain. </TMI>
* If the likely outcome of spanked children associating sexual feelings with guilt were just that they grew up to be happy kinksters, it wouldn’t be a problem… but as kristinc so eloquently pointed out, that doesn’t seem likely. (And, of course, there are plenty of reasons to oppose the spanking of children that have nothing to do with their sexual development.)
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
KG: all I have to go on is literally probably hundreds of hours of shooting the shit about this stuff, but it really seems to me that a lot of kinksters use words like “humiliated and ashamed” to mean “small and helpless” or similar.
They/we seek out consensual acts that would make us feel humiliated and ashamed if they were “real”, that is, if we were really being punished, if our sexual partners or significant others were really angry or profoundly disappointed in us. But they aren’t, so we aren’t, and I honestly don’t think many people at all seek out real literal shame. Humiliation maybe in that its root word is “humble”, but not shame. “Humiliation and shame” seems to be shorthand for “humiliation and shame roleplay” more than anything else.
As for the language — is there any more reliable way for one adult to assert superiority over another? You signal that someone is subordinate to you (and often make them viscerally feel that way) by talking to them as if they were a child, not an adult. The same language difference is present in a lot of explicitly adult-situation fantasy scenarios (cop/civilian, priest/nun, employer/servant, master/slave) because it’s such a universal means of condescension. I’m not sure the face value of it is that significant.
I didn’t look at the other thread that you and Ing are talking about, but…
Sometimes the goal of a discussion of matters of taste is not to resolve differences but to articulate them.
Articulating differences is distinct from making others feel stupid or unworthy because of what they like. I have no idea if this is what was going on elsewhere, but I know it goes on often.
My degrees are in English literature, and as an artsy-fartsy lit-crit guy, I luuuuuuuuv arguing about matters of taste; it’s fun for me. But I have also had others “articulate” their different opinions about matters of taste to me (right here on TET) in ways that seemed to claim objective truth for one opinion, and imply that my conflicting opinion was objectively wrong (and thus, it seems inescapable to conclude, that I was somehow deficient in my faculties for holding it). At the risk of being accused of tone trolling, it seems to me that what matters here is not so much what your argument is, but how you make it.
Reaching back a few posts, am I correct in inferring from this…
Now consider this: you yourself said that 90% of comic books are irredeemably stupid. Therefore, you are only 10% less snobby than I am, and yet you feel that this is some kind of critical benchmark that renders you justifiably offended and me intolerably offensive.
…that you said all comic books are stupid? If so, I disagree with your evaluation of the relative comments: What you report Ing as having said is effectively just a particular case of Sturgeon’s Law, and leaves room for a discriminating fan to discern (and peacefully disagree about) which 10% of comic books are not stupid. But saying they’re all stupid inevitably seems to declare anyone who likes any comic book to be stupid as well (or, at least, incapable of seeing the stupidity of the form). You may actually believe that, and you have every right to say so; are you really surprised if the people you say it to are offended?
I’m all for booty shorts, for almost any reason, but… it’s in the 50s here (CT), too (or was, ’til the sun went down), on frickin’ February 1!, and it’s freakin’ me out. I spent most of my life, until a little more than 11 years ago, in places that were flat and had no real seasons, and I was delighted to move to a place that had actual terrain and (most of all) real winters. Quite aside from concerns about what it means in the long term, I miss my winter!
Dhorvath, OMsays
Bill D,
This, BTW, makes it hard for me to find my ideal kinky erotica, since most spanking porn is about roleplaying punishment and humiliation, and very little of it is about actual lovemaking that incorporates consensual pain.
Careful with that word if you would be so kind.
I think I get what you are saying, (and I don’t know what to suggest, my kinks lie in diverse enough directions that I don’t run up against similar issues) but care can be taken with sentences like the above and how it frames what you like as “actual lovemaking” and what others like as not without losing the ideas you are trying to share.
but care can be taken with sentences like the above and how it frames what you like as “actual lovemaking” and what others like as not without losing the ideas you are trying to share.
Hmm, I understood it completely different:
actual lovemaking that incorporates consensual pain.
As opposed to lovemaking that has spanking/punishment/dominance roleplay elements but no actual pain
Just_A_Lurkersays
Instead, I’m interested in pain as an element of sexual pleasure, in way similar to the way I’m interested in spiciness as an element of culinary pleasure.
I just need to say yes to this. I was trying to find a way to explain myself and you did it so much better.
I’m not sure the face value of it is that significant.
Huh. I don’t know. I’ve never used such language. When I have done this role playing whether I’m the submission or dominant, this “you’re a bad boy/girl” is not necessary in the language. Maybe I’m just weird. I personally find it a turn off so I guess that just creates a need to find other ways to express it. It maybe reliable but its not the only way or necessary. Maybe that’s just it.
Dhorvath, OMsays
Giliell,
In that case there is a third interpretation, because I saw two and neither were yours. I inferred Bill was making a distinction between spanking and other sex acts with that actual, as opposed to saying that what he likes is actual lovemaking, but is was vague enough to raise my hackles. Now with your reading I am even more confused. Certainly had the actual moved in front of consensual I would have read it differently and in kind with your interpretation.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Gilliel,
I am qualified for my job and I think I do pretty well on the job.
I guess it’s just a nagging worry. Life ain’t fair and all that.
Today I wore jeans. No crinoline. I am, however, currently wearing an apron covered in cherries. It is very cute.
In other news, my power went out and I couldn’t find my flashlight. I did find a book of matches, and I very carefully used their light to reset my breaker box.
and very little of it is about actual lovemaking that incorporates consensual pain.
Careful with that word if you would be so kind.
I think I get what you are saying, (and I don’t know what to suggest, my kinks lie in diverse enough directions that I don’t run up against similar issues) but care can be taken with sentences like the above and how it frames what you like as “actual lovemaking” and what others like as not without losing the ideas you are trying to share.
Ahh, I see where what I said could be taken wrong; thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify: What I meant was that in most spanking porn (that I’ve been able to find, anyway) there isn’t any sex. Instead, most of what I’ve seen consists of fictional scenarios that are presented as actual punishment — a headmaster caning a schoolgirl, a husband spanking his wife, a landlady paddling her tenant — for (within the scenario) actual misdeeds. It’s supposed to be erotic for the audience (i.e., me), but it’s not presented as an erotic interaction between the characters in the scene.
In no way did I mean to be calling anyone’s idea of lovemaking non-actual, and I absolutely understand that power-exchange and consensual humiliation absolutely is lovemaking for many; it’s just that the scenes I can find don’t present their characters as if they were making love (of any sort). It’s not even as if they’re presented as people whose roleplay is lovemaking; they’re presented as if they’re really angry headmasters and chastened schoolgirls (etc.).
By contrast, I have found a tiny number of videos in which the participants clearly are making love, and consensual pain play is part (the major part) of their sexual repertoire. Sadly, those videos appear to have been one-offs even in the places I found them.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
What you report Ing as having said is effectively just a particular case of Sturgeon’s Law, and leaves room for a discriminating fan to discern (and peacefully disagree about) which 10% of comic books are not stupid.
Not incredibly on topic, but wouldn’t that also invalidate the argument that monotheists are mostly atheist as well, because they reject all gods but one. It may do so validly come to think about it.
But saying they’re all stupid inevitably seems to declare anyone who likes any comic book to be stupid as well (or, at least, incapable of seeing the stupidity of the form). You may actually believe that, and you have every right to say so; are you really surprised if the people you say it to are offended?
I don’t think it does. I enjoy many things that are, to use your own word, stupid. But, I admit to having engaged in some one-upmanship. I insulted the genre. I was insulted for that (this surprised me). I replied with something that I knew would be taken as insulting. And so on. I’m only surprised that people were offended by my first statement. The others were intentionally shitty, and were probably not misconstrued. I thought the conversation was mostly fun, but I guess it wasn’t too fun for Ing.
However, I didn’t know that until Ing reported here. I misinterpreted a winky emoticon for playfulness.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
this “you’re a bad boy/girl” is not necessary in the language. Maybe I’m just weird. I personally find it a turn off
I don’t think you’re weird. I also find it a turnoff, it feels too much like a stagy puton whenever a partner has tried it. I know there are people explicitly into being naughty children but it’s never been my kink and it doesn’t seem to be even close to the majority of Other People’s Kink that I’ve seen.
It’s pretty fascinating the different ways people are attracted to expressing power imbalance for sexual purposes. Military/cop stuff, institutional obedience like nuns, chattel slavery, harem slavery, about forty million different permutations of captive/kidnap, and that’s not even getting into pony/pet play (or the ways people incorporate pain without any element of power differential, or the relationships without any roleplay at all where it’s simply agreed that one person is in charge and all parties concerned get off on it).
(If you procrastinate enough, it will become moot)
only in the sense that it’ll expedite the process by eventually dumping me into a depression so deep I won’t crawl out of it again. Since it takes active effort not to be that depressed, procrastination won’t get me to a non-violent death. distraction from my own thoughts/emotions might work, provided it’s constant and harmless enough; finding something that would qualify emotionally as worthwhile would probably work a lot better though.
ChasCPetersonsays
aw, AE, you hurt Ing’s feelings?
Just for that:
comics : DFW :: The Cure : (say) Coltrane
changeable monikersays
I’m not usually one to snark about comments on the interwebz (otherwise what would I do other than mock people on YouTube?) but this has me confuzzled. The Economist has a new blog on China. Comments are coming in thick and fast. Comments including this:
My Westerner friends, if you hope to know and explain the essence of china, it’s basically useless to use your own political concept , your culture concept. etc.. the ONly to know the essence of it ia as follows:
I’ll give you a little enlightenment , that is , china is an aberrant place full of overanimalized being , or the ruling bloc /rulers there conspire to turn the populace into over animalized being , and sustain the overanimalized environment in both the reign and society systms…
Everyone is forced implicitly to behave , think like animals, which is characrized by ” 3D ” ,namely, de-morals, de-faiths , de-idelology …
The ego in the ruling bloc ‘s thought is animal, they force themselves like predators, the the underpriviladged like prey ,
most evil nature of them is they conspire to make the handsome degenerate and extinct by oppressing , discriminating , mentally maltreating , segergating the handsome in the work places , with the malicious purpose to ruin their career developments. This is the most antihuman nature of the chinese ruling bloc. Of course they will say ” our society is originally like this” , but acutally it’s the ruling bloc that tacitly support , tacitly enjoy this antihuman behavior , BECAuse they grab the chinese men they desire to have sex with like malignant tumor, and frantically make the handsome ( antibody ) die out .. Totally antihuman
I see four possibilities:
1. I’m too drunk to understand.
2. Chinglish.
3. {H,Sh}e’s insane.
4. Things are really fucked up.
5. It’s a disinformation campaign.
Nutmeg, #457: I’m not good at schmoozing at all, either. I’m lucky in that I’m able to earn a living without doing so, but I also realize that if I could do that adeptly, I’d be a lot better off financially.
Pteryxx, #469: I LOL’ed. How’d I miss that one? I wonder if they have a Chicago store anywhere near Wacker Drive.
Bill, #481: You seem to be basing your argument on the assumption that if there is no penetration of genitals or anus and no stimulation of either or of nipples, the scenario in question cannot be inherently erotic. I disagree; eroticism is all in the mind, and therefore all in the framing.
Specifically to spanking porn, I dispute whether it’s no different in its eroticism than a video of an actual schoolgirl being caned by an actual headmaster for an actual infraction of the rules. Without getting into details that are probably more than some people want to read, the former will likely use stock phrases, an overly sexualized school uniform, timing of blows, crying with a lot of gasps and not a lot of nasal mucus, etc. etc. Clichés, sure, but clichés get a lot of people off.
The caning of an actual, unwilling student? Certainly, that would turn some people on, but it’d be a different subset than those turned on by the spanking porn, though probably with some overlap. However, the eroticism in the first scenario is much more pronounced because it is being deliberately framed as erotic.
croweppssays
The citizens of the City of Cranston are shocked, SHOCKED! that as the losers they are expected to pay the totally unnecessary costs accrued in this slam-dunk case. I’m sure each person who threw a hissy fit at the School Committee meeting will be willing to chip in a Grand.
Not incredibly on topic, but wouldn’t that also invalidate the argument that monotheists are mostly atheist as well, because they reject all gods but one. It may do so validly come to think about it.
Not at all the same thing.
I insulted the genre. I was insulted for that (this surprised me).
Really? You were really surprised by that? I find that hard to believe.
Also, comics (graphic novel, whatever) is a medium, not a genre. There are many genres of storytelling embraced by the comics medium.
waltonsays
This just means that differences in matters of taste can’t be resolved objectively. Sometimes the goal of a discussion of matters of taste is not to resolve differences but to articulate them. This hardly violates the principle.
Sure. I should say that I haven’t read the thread in question (I probably should have done before responding to Ing’s comment), and didn’t mean to attack you personally.
Rey Foxsays
Oh crap, are we not talking about things that Chas likes again?
Rev. BDC, #420: I see your Jesus practical jokes and raise you this cartoon.
Just_A_Lurkersays
2. Chinglish.
Wait, what?
Yo, is this racist?
Just_A_Lurkersays
I thought of this in the Posing thread but want to cross-post since its mostly off-topic and will probably get more responses here:
Is butthurt homophobic? Like panties in a bunch is sexist? I never thought of it as such before, it just hit me to ask. I’ve used both, but stopped with the panties in a bunch once I realized “doh teh sexist”. Butthurt seems to be in the same line because of the whole toxic meme of straight men being so very protective of their precious assholes that much never be touched because that would make them gay. Huh. Thoughts?
Sidenote: I wish Yo, is the sexist and I’m not a sexist but.. were as popular as their racist counterparts.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Rev. BDC, #420: I see your Jesus practical jokes and raise you this cartoon.Rev. BDC, #420: I see your Jesus practical jokes and raise you this cartoon.
Ahh yes, Jewish family guilt.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
JAL, there’s also Spanglish and Konglish just off the top of my head, so I think it’s just a handy word-smoosh (don’t know the correct lingustic jargon although I’m sure it’s cool).
Pteryxxsays
…Natalie is SO AWESOME! eleventy!
First, she writes this great long well-thought-out post about so-called and self-identified allies:
Any bets that the Cranston school board members whining about paying their voluntarily incurred court costs are the same kind of people who are like “If you didn’t want to go to jail for 11 million years you shouldn’t have smoked weed! You do the crime you do the time”?
Just a Lurker: The consensus here seems to be that “butthurt” is wrong because, depending on how you perceive it, it regards either spanking or anal rape as “just desserts.”
Rev. BDC: As a (non-practicing) Member Of The Tribe, I find the cartoon hilarious, and so does my family.
changeable monikersays
J_A_L: “Yo, is this racist?”
I claim “no”, but arguments to the contrary are welcome. Note, however, that that was #2 on the list: #1 was “me” (deliberately).
Actually, I was hoping someone with better (i.e., some) Chinese could explain the more colourful phrases (“animalized”?!) in terms of the mismatch between Chinese and English.
Geez, drama in the Facebooks. (Not involving any other regulars here.)
This kinda sums up my attitude.
Is there scientific™ term for premature portcullisification?
I’m a huge fan of Megan Mullally and the Supreme Music Program. Their CD’s are among my favorites. (Big As a Berry often goes for hundreds on Ebay). I’d consider giving a testicle to see her cabaret act. She’s a musical chameleon, and I’ve never heard a better cover of “Danny Boy”.
By the way, is that the actor who plays Ron Swanson on “Parks and Recreation”?
Portcullis’d!
‘sokay, I anthropomorphize depression. I hate that sonofabitch.
So, okay, poison shampoo has been applied and hair combed through. I combed Mr Kristinc’s, and he made a sorta-valiant attempt at combing mine but it ended up working better for me to comb it while he watched and made sure I didn’t miss any spots.
Prodigious amounts of laundry have been done (turned out to be a good time to decide what we can get rid of, after washing it of course; we have way more clothes and shit than we need.) The freezer is full of hand-crocheted hats, armwarmers, and specialty t-shirts I’m terrified to dry on high heat.
I’m reasonably sure Mr Kristinc and I are clean (we’ll keep checking). The one infested kid’s treatment period should be over tomorrow, and he just started scratching again. Argh. I hope it’s nothing.
My internet connectivity issues continue apace.
And it is snowing. There’s already a good 3-4 inches, and it is expected to snow all night. Great.
I’m going to bed. *sulk*
It may be noted that the Invisible, Purple, Fire Breathing, Flying Dragon that lives in the corner of the room just above and behind my right shoulder (up there by the ceiling) was watching as I played this video. It’s reaction? “Meh. Not too clever and not country enough. Needs a hook”.
And there you have it, folks, right from the dragon’s mouth.
I do too!
It really *feels* like an entity to me. I used to have a nightmare some times where this “stuff” would begin spilling into the room. Except it was not spilling at all, but rather it was some complete void and there would ultimately be no escape from it. It seemed almost smart, like a slime mold made of antimatter. And it knew where the fuck I was.
That’s how it seems to me. Irrational or poetic, your choice.
I watched PZ’s video and was experiencing earworm.
Then I watched Benjamin Geiger’s linked video (Dixie Chicks) and was instantly cured.
It’s a miracle!
Watched for one minute and stopped. It’s like someone compressed all the asinine bits about fundies into four minutes of mental pain.
———————————-
My new MP3 player is growing on me. It’s smaller than the Fuze, but without the annoying touch controls of the Fuze+. I figure this Clip Zip will do until something better and a bit bigger comes along. No more gritting my teeth while Mom blares country music in the car.
———————————-
Well, the kid in kindergarten who was a total terror is not finishing out the year here. At first it seemed like a case of him just being too energetic and not knowing how to handle that, or maybe another kid who was just bored because he wasn’t being challenged enough. But now we realized he’s like his dad: a bully. Trying to stab people with pencils, bothering the other kids when they’re not doing a damned thing to piss him off, ramming his desk into another student’s, and not even caring when her fingers got caught and badly bruised. Really, he needs help, and it’s not the kind of help we can provide, as we don’t have the funding to afford a psychologist on staff. And if someone else’s child gets hurt because of him, who gets the blame? We do. How nice.
I predict that someday this boy’s going to meet someone who’s brave enough to stand up to him, or someone who’s just bigger and tougher, and he’ll get a rude wake-up call from reality . . . if he doesn’t somehow get himself killed first. I won’t miss him, honestly. He’s the second kid in my almost-three years at the school whom I will not miss seeing every day. In fact, I’ll be relieved when he doesn’t show up tomorrow, although explaining why he’s not around to the kids could be tough. Or not. We’ll see.
—————————————-
Guitar – My left ring finger is developing a pronounced dent in the tip as opposed to my other fingers. Might be due to me having to reach and press more with it than the others. But all my fingers now have nice roughened patch. I don’t know why, but it’s satisfying to touch those patches.
—————————————–
*raises glass to Korematsu*
I hope such a senseless act never happens again.
—————————————-
Remember how last summer I was seeing Phineas & Ferb every day? Now most days I’ve got the theme from Maya & Miguel in my head. So far neither character has appeared in my dreams, but should that happen, I’ll have to find something to purge with after work.
Been sharing Creepy Pasta with a friend.
And sadly the stuff I read here turned out to be more scary :(
Depression always seemed to me to be more of a force of nature, like a thick fog rolling in. Definitely something from outside myself, though.
What I do anthropomorphize is inanimate objects that don’t do what I tell them to do, feeb at critical moments, or in a few cases, hurt me. I had an electric shaver once that not only ripped whiskers out of my face, it made a weird noise and refused to work after I smacked it against the wall. Then it bounced up and hit me in, shall we say, a sensitive place when I threw it on the floor.
The scene ends with me holding onto the cord and swinging the shaver around the room smashing it against every available surface.
I know it’s not rational; it appears to be something I inherited from my mother. I once came home to find the rocking chair in splinters on the floor, and I never found out what it did to piss her off so.
Somewhere, in a landfill not so far away, lie the remains of a coffee maker…
chigau: Psych!
I’m not going to watch it. I’m so pissed of at Pennsylvania declaring 1012 “The Year of The Bible” that I want to throw up until there’s nothing left but bitter bile.
2012. I’m so pissed!
Kristinc @5
I feel for you, my dear. We went through that routine several times with five children – four of them girls with long, thick hair. I’m so glad that they are all adults now!
Have a very big glass of wine tonight.
Y’all really should watch the whole video.
trust me
bad, I’ll take the Chinese New Year over “Year of the Bible.” Because dragons are cool, and probably wiser and more fun to be around.
Bah, I’ll take the Chinese New Year over “Year of the Bible.” Because dragons are cool, and probably wiser and more fun to be around.
leobutch @3
Yes, that’s Ron Swanson. Nick Offerman and Megan Mullaly are actually married in real life, which gives the Ron and Tammy relationship on the show a new spin!
Pennsylvania declaring 1012 “The Year of The Bible”
I was gonna say…
Depression seems to me like a trickster spirit telling me lies. Only, of course, the danger is that when I’m in a depressive period, it sounds very much like the truth. My mother once told me that I remind her of that Red Dwarf episode where all the crew are hallucinating lives filled with their worst fears because some malignant alien is trying to get them to kill themselves.
Oh, anthropomorphizing inanimate objects. My ipod, power drill, chop saw, sewing machine and stand mixer all have names, so no, of course I would never do that.
Oh my, yes.
*watches video at top*
Stick an American Flag in it, it’s done.
Is intermittent, single-word dyslexia possible?
All day, when I see the word “Islam” I read “salami”.
My parole officer is soooo proud of me
There is an old Stooges line that sort of goes like, “Salam, salami, baloney”.
My profile thus far today, dragons and stooges. No, I have no excuse, just a wide grin.
What did you do this time, Rev?
Oh my, that is what I see my paranoia and anxiety as. It’s more upsetting to me than depression. Depression won’t lose me my job, though it might end my life if I can’t recognize it in time. But I get these horrible periods where the information coming in is just.. skewed. I’ve found that a heavy dose of anti-anxiety meds, and r*talin can shove me through it some times at least enough not to “show” at work, etc. It is amazing to me though, how clear it becomes that it is a disorder when you do that.
I mean, I can go from truly “seeing” only the horrible to seeing opportunity in minutes that way. But it is so completely real. That’s what is sad. Or rather what is sad to me is that I realize that I am perceiving reality in both states. There is some truth, at least in my case because I do not and never have had truly delusional experiences, to both… but the ability to *use* that effectively is jammed. And it does, indeed, seem like “something” has gotten my ear.
To me it kind of helps to think of it anthropomorphically then. Even if it is just a tool I create whereby I imagine to justify the inexplicable shifts in consciousness.
It also makes it hard though because it has led to me doubting myself when my perceptions were highly accurate. What I’ve come to realize is that no matter what my perceptions are actually highly accurate. It’s my ability to understand the *significance* of those perceptions that gets messed up some times.
LOL, looks like I didn’t move fast enough to keep the first post from going up. Oh well, minor misspelling, not too horrible.
Yes, that’s exactly it. I don’t know to what degree my anxiety and my depression are intertwined, but I know that in many ways my life really does objectively suck and present huge barriers to me ever finding my way to a better place. I know it’s untrue that anybody! can improve their life! if they just want to! enough! (did the cheerleader come through in those exclamation points?) and I know that many people simply slip through the cracks and fail to ever be happy because of the barriers present to them.
So, when my depression “whispers” those things to me, it’s very hard to dismiss them. That used to be my favored method of dealing with depression, simply keeping the mindset that anything depression tells me must be a lie. But the more life experience I have and the better a critical thinker I become, the harder it actually gets to talk myself out of hopeless depression thinking. In my case I’m untreated, so I don’t have the option of taking some meds and seeing if it looks better in the morning.
Algernon:
I haven’t dealt with such as you seem beleaguered by but I am struck by something in your worry. From time to time some deep dreads have visited me.
Might I assume that you have at least a couple of, for want of a better term, some sort of anchor, some talisman or a simple rote method of grounding yourself in reality? I would imagine that you do and I only mention this because at times in my life such concepts of a reliable and deeply rooted sanctuary have proved useful to me.
Hand holds. Footing. A place that provides good purchase. Bread crumb trail. String tied to the real world.
I’m not sure what the world seems like to you. I’m only reasonably sure what the world seems to me. But there have been times of long fear. My good fortune is that I always marked my trail on the way in and left some clues in order to find my way out should the need arise. That and a good mental map of the territory have been of great value.
I hope your way becomes easier as time passes. Clarity comes with time, that’s its big drawback.
So I just broke up with someone because she is more religious than I can handle.
I’m not actually sure why I’m saying that here, since I don’t give a shit about whether or not anyone sympathizes. Maybe I’m hoping we’ll have some discussion on the topic? That would be cool.
Who here thinks I did the right thing?
I call Poe on that video. It would be too terrifying to be a true profession of faith.
It’s a Joke!
Satire!
Everyone involved is a professional comedian!
@Shplane,
Would you not have broken up with her had she been less religious?
If so, what level of religiosity would not be too much?
I ask not flippantly but because I am in a situation that has some similarities along with some deeply embedded complications that stubbornly persist.
That said, I submit that there is no “right thing” to do in any situation. Rather, there is a set of options that can accomplish something like a “right outcome” in any given situation. Depending on your point of view and whether you have an ox being gored or an iron in the fire or money in the pot or your eternal soul hanging in the balance. Or just a casual interest . . .
More and more as of late, but in the past not at all. I do think that while KristinC is right that one can’t just “decide” to think themselves into a better place, that generating changes can help. The real kicker is that if your ability to recognize opportunity is fucked up… how do you improve things?
For me, finding people to whom I can openly confess my mental state as a mental state has helped tremendously in sorting out the best way to use the information coming in, and separate it from the triggered areas that are not useful to me. But finding and trusting people is so hard I can easily see it being a non-option too. I think on some level though, yes, if it weren’t as you say I wouldn’t be capable of creating the anthropomorphism of disorder. Because, if one has a strong enough concept of self then one can perceive this as an “other” even on a conversational level as a way to describe the sensation. This indicates a connection with “reality” or at least a more healthy version of the self; because without that connection, there can not even be a sense of “self” to be taken over, influenced, or hurt.
One other thing I’ve come to realize though is that releasing the concept of dichotomies has been helpful for me. Instead of splitting people/actions/motivations/events/concepts of self/etc into a hard decision where I have to “reject” one or the other, with enough effort and security one can actually form a more whole and accurate picture. Hyper-vigilance is a useful tool if you can figure out how to use it.
[previous incarnation of TET]
@ Sailor
Dancing Buildings: Those are the actual architects of the buildings are depicted by the suites that they are wearing.
@ Alethea
That would be far too familiar!
I do. Because you said “than I can handle” and that is all you need.
It doesn’t matter if some one else could handle it, after all. There’s no reason on earth you should ever be in a relationship with anyone who is more or less anything than you “can handle” after all.
Some times I look at my post and *wish* there were an opportunity to edit it. I have an annoying habit in typing whereby I repeat phrases several times. I don’t do this when I speak, and when I take time to edit what I write, I usually fix it.
But when chatting online I often do not catch it until after I smack down that submit button.
I tend to use literary allusions myself. I ‘m Mr. Hyde when I’m manic and I’m Hamlet when I’m feeling depressed. When I’m manic, I get really megalomaniacal. I start to imagine myself as ultimate-kick-ass-savior-of-the-world. I’m always “right” and I don’t care what happens to the people who are “wrong.” In fact, I want to see those capitalist, religionist bastards suffering or, better yet, dead. If only people would listen to me and take my obvious genius seriously, then the world would change for the better and I would be the hero!
HOORAY ME!!!!!
On the other hand…
When I’m depressed, I’m human shit. No one loves me. I’m fat. I’m ugly. I’m stupid. No woman would ever want me. I’ll never find a descent job. I’ll never make enough money to be independent of my guilt-tripping, Cat-lick, Rethuglican father. When he dies, I’ll be lucky to end up living in a cardboard box. I’d tuck a pistol under my chin and stop prolonging the inevitable, but I don’t want to give my bastard father or my mother’s fundy relations the satisfaction of confirming their stereotype that atheists living depressing, joyless lives where suicide is the ultimate result. I live only to spite them, if you want to call that “living.”
FUCK ME! AND FUCK THE WHOLE WORLD TOO!!!!
And since I’m a rapid-cylcer, I get to teeter-tooter back and forth between these states a few times a month–Hell, a few times a week on occasion. Sounds like fun, doesn’t it?
Not really enough evidence presented to render a judgement in this particular case.
Don’t.
Algernon,
Just make sure to eat both wings.
Algernon asks,
Opportunity is a rather constant condition, I think. That is, I’ve been able to walk away from situations with unexpected profit as well as unwelcome concern when neither were obvious. Perhaps I’m influenced by the inner notion that life is really pretty cool and people are mostly friendly, often entertaining and sometimes instructive.
If so, life in general is very hard to improve upon except for the added value that a single person, say, you or I, can provide. There is always room for that kind of contribution. Each of us are capable (I keep telling myself) and history testifies to the long range effects of individual efforts that endure long after the passion of the times has cooled and been forgotten.
At least the right one.
Looks like it was a good night to decide to join TET. I got fired today partly because of my symptoms of depression (which I anthropomorphize as a cheeky little velociraptor; a nod to the idea that my decision-making skills are being hijacked by the ‘lizard brain’). I’m medicated and therapied but still fucking up in ways that, as mentioned above, really do make life shitty.
Also, thought it would be a grand plan to come out to my family as atheist; I was informed that I was disparaging those who love me by referring to religion as ‘a cognitive dissonance in the intelligent believer’s mind.’ Lots to think about.
“Scientists discover new clue to the chemical origins of life” http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-scientists-clue-chemical-life.html
— — — — —
“Just make sure to eat both wings”
I may be an omnivore but not that much omni. U-uuulp.
Phledge:
Here in Oz, that would likely be problematic for your employer, should you decide to chase that up.
Seems to me that you were informed that someone claims to believe that is the case.
(Mere allegations are not yet facts)
Good morning
Last night, my daughter went to sleep sitting upright in a laundry basket with her head firmly supported by both hands while her bed was full of toys.
Don’t ask me.
I figured out that it was no use getting in a fight over this and just put her into her bed after I tok her for her pee.
How do you call an athropomorphised creature that keeps you from getting off your ass to do the things you need and want to do and then comes back to haunt you with a bad conscience so you put any thought of your failure to do the task and the task itself so much to the back of your mind that your sense of failure grows quicker than moss takes over a lwan?
Thanks, John. The odd thing about losing my job is that I was working for a friend, and I’d been missing work on the days where I just could. Not. Cope. It’s really not her fault that I wasn’t able to rise to her needs. And just like Giliell, the failure is crushing me.
As far as the family goes, this is not the first time I’ve been at odds against them; only it’s the first time I’ve challenged their sense of self and their relative intelligence. Which reminds me: anyone have a good recommendation for an “atheist virgin” book? My little brother is a bright but braindouched godbot who’s willing to read one, ONE book if I send it to him. He’s not ready for Dawkins or Hitch anytime soon, methinks, but is there a concise, well-written volume that would start the wheels turning?
Welcome to TET, Phledge.
Oh, I don’t know – Dawkins’s The God Delusion is written for the lay person and is very basic, covers all the main goddist arguments.
Thanks for the welcome, Caine. I really liked The God Delusion but I was almost completely free of any religious restraints at that time so I thought it was just easy for me to read because of where my mind was at the time. I’ll try it with him, thanks. Note that he’s sending me The Reason for God by Timothy Keller, and I’ve agreed to read it. I’m willing to look at one source of nonsense apologia for a family member. :)
Phledge:
I see. I read it as an atheist and so did Mister and we both thought it was very basic and simple, as we had figured out all that stuff years before. I think it might at least be thought provoking for a theist.
Hold off on a decision for a few days, I’m sure other recommendations will be coming in from the rest of the horde.
Good morning.
— — — —
“The price of your soul: How the brain decides whether to ‘sell out'” http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-01-price-soul-brain.html
-So, in theory, we could introduce compulsory neuro-imaging of political candidates to find out beforehand if they are sellouts on various issues.
Would have been nice to have applied this in the Democrat primaries a few years ago…
Hi all, first time poster here. For a talk on skepticism that I’m doing I have prepared some videos and I’m looking for some feedback and criticisms. Denialism – Religion, Denialism – Money, Grants and Corruption and Denialism – Suppression and Attacks. Any help would be appreciated.
@ birgerjohansson
Studies like that only create more gaps. More gaps only give GAWD ™ more places to hide out in. (Did you read the comments? Holy fuck … the goddists pull in like sharks to chum. If they are reading science blogs, how is it that they never gain a clue?)
well, that’s interesting. looks like other people experience depression completely differently from the way I experience it. For one, I don’t anthropomorphize or externalize it, it feels entirely internal (maybe because it only ever varies between slightly bad and horrible; I’ve no idea what “non-depressed” feels like); and two, it neither screws with my self-perception (I still know I’m intelligent; and lovable; and even relatively good-looking, despite becoming increasingly fat (90kg as of today *blecch*) nor with my ability to see opportunities to achieve things and goals; rather, it makes anything I could possibly achieve feel about as significant/fulfilling than finishing a quest in WoW. Meaning, all this opportunity and ability I have, I can only use to reduce the nastiness of the depression. But nothing about my life now or about any possible futures really seems quite “worth living for”. For example, maintaining a 4.0 GPA is a goal of sorts, and it keeps me distracted enough for now, but once over, all I get out of this is a summa cum laude I can hang on my wall. pretty meaningless and pointless, ultimately. and I feel the same with any other “goal” I can imagine trying for, and as a result my life feels like me trying to distract myself long enough until I die of natural causes
Very interesting discussions/impressions of how people see depression. It has been a long time since I really looked at mine as opposed to dealing with it. Thanks to all for being open and providing food for thought. Relatively recently I have realized that there were two interrelated, but still semi-distinct parts to my depression: First, what I call the, for want of a better word, normal depression to which I am prone, and; second, the depression following my last wife’s suicide. It has been useful for me to separate them, at least somewhat. Notably, the separation has allowed me to start to lose the anger at her suicide. The anger was pretty much the last stumbling block to acceptance of the fact.
Work in progress, of course.
Hmmm, rereading my last, it appears I have been working and looking at my depression. Odd how one sometimes does not see the very obvious.
Does it count if I don’t actually have depression diagnosed, but I don’t see what else the deep pit I’m in could possibly be?
I’ve fucked up my grades and I feel like my degree means nothing. My skills are nearly nonexistent and I don’t have good enough grades to get a job out of this country (or in it, for that matter). I tried to do better, but each failure just proved that I’m not good enough. And then I would stop trying. If I’m going to fail, what’s the point, right? Maybe I’m not as stupid as I currently think I am, but contemplating that makes me despair even more because that would mean I could have done better if only I wasn’t such a fuck-up. Which makes everything my own fault and another reason to hate myself.
I have a job shifting papers that will end in two weeks. After that… I have no idea what I’ll do. I live with my parents and they don’t mind supporting me until I find a job, but Ineither can nor want to live like that forever.
I don’t have many friends. One moved back home (6-hour drive from here) and we’ll se each other when she finds time to visit. The other currently has a lot of health problems in the family and I can’texpect her to listen to my whinging. Other people I’m not close enough to to confide in.
I’ve taken learning french and it kept me afloat for a while (goal setting Jadehawk mentions). But now I’m not satisfied with my progress and the whole thing where I can’t talk to people is a big part of it. Talking to someone I don’t know is difficult and doing it in a language I’m not fluent in makes me all flustered and useless.
I’m not even going to start about relationships. I don’t think that’s even a possiblity for me. I’m way too good in driving people away if they by some chance take an interest in me.
It definitelly feels internal, whether it’s a depression or something else. Getting my master’s degree was a goal that kept me going for a while, but now I have nothing but disappointment in my own incompetence.
Navelglazing to follow, don’t read if you don’t want to.
Hmm, I don’t think I’m depressed, although at times I am very down.
I just can’t cope with some type of freedom, which is the freedom to postpone things.
Looking back, that has always been a problem, but not that bad since the freedom was very restricted.
I never needed to force myself to do things I didn’t like in my free time during my schooldays. I just went there and everything was fine. I can totally function under pressure, in fact, I function best under pressure. If I have to be somewhere at 14:00, I’ll be there, if I have to finish something by next week I’ll do it, only when I can postpone things I end up in trouble, abd it has led to the point where I postponed getting my degree to a point it became a spectacular failure and every time I postpone things they become shamefull so I avoid them.
Yes, my counsellor was impressed when I said that I manage not to think about college, or making a phone call for a whole week and by “not think” I really mean “not think”.
Well, cry over spilled milk.
I don’t hate my life.
I don’t hate myself.
I know I can do things, and I even know that I do have a talent for teaching and I like it. I like it when I see people making progress.
New plan: Since I don’t function without a timetable, I make one myself for every day. So far I’ve kept it for today.
Navelglazing, sorry.
Phledge @ 51
Let me be the first to recommend Red Neck, Blue Collar Atheist by Hank Fox. It is written in a folksy style which makes its beautifully argued assertions and masterful metaphors hit all the harder. You can read a few chapters on his blog, but you will have to scroll back to Oct. 11 2011 to see them.
Ugh, here in the UK there is a call for our laws on smacking your children to be relaxed, essentially giving parents protection under law for violence against their own kids.
Is anyone else as against this as I am? I can’t believe this is getting so much support, most recently by that clown Boris Johnson.
Where’s the line I can queue for smacking them?
Yes, surely, hitting your children is the way to teach them that violence is not the answer to conflicts.
Did I mention that the words “parental rights” need to be purged from the vocabulary?
Well, I hear there are some medications which can keep it up longer (though if it lasts for more than four hours . . .).
You will all (trust me, been there) have the dreaded phantom itch for the next six months. (and as I write this, my scalp just began to itch . . .).
Does this mean that people will actually read the verdammkt thing and realize that it has absolutely no relevence to 21st century life? Well, aside from the parts about murder, rape, child abuse, misogyny, smitings and smotings?
Mayhap you are just hungry?
But remember, sometimes a salami is just a salami (except when it isn’t, of course).
I do, too. Depression is the bully (not the one who was in PTI’s class) who keeps picking and picking and picking until I react and when I react, I know it is my choice to react and is thus my fault. I can tell when I am entering a depressive episode when I start reacting to everyone around me as if they are attacking me. Depression is a bully who alters my perception of the world and whispers in my ear that they are lying, they are out to get me, they are secretly laughing at me behind my back. The bully tells me that no matter what I do I will fail. And everyone will know.
Oddly, my horrible dreams from ten years ago do not seem to coincide with depressive episodes. They seem to result more from specific external stimuli of smell. Depression, however, is that fucking bully who is hanging over my shoulder, filtering everything anyone says to me.
And that was far more than I intended to type, but what the hell, right?
Oddly, I passed a Dodge Omni which was broken down on the side of the freeway. One of the car’s front wheels was 200 yards further up the shoulder.
They do not read for content, they read for discrete quotes which can be used to butress their pre-concieved notions.
Yes.
I know others have commented on this, but it does seem to be just wonderfully funny.
“Democracy isn’t all it is cracked up to be” http://www.nature.com/news/democracy-isn-t-all-it-is-cracked-up-to-be-1.9925
Some districts in Russia and Uganda claimed a 100% turnout (of voters) and 100% of votes going to the winner…
— — — — — — —
“If they are reading science blogs, how is it that they never gain a clue?”
Presumably they only read the bits that in a superficial reading seem to support their beliefs. Just like the way too many read the political articles in the newspapers & blogs. Those who actually read newspapers & blogs.
— — — — —
Pennsylvania declaring 1012 “The Year of The Bible”
WIN!
— — — — — —
The concept of dragons was probably inspired by the findings of big dinosaur fossils. So dragons are cool whether you consider them symbolically or literally.
Not enough time to catch up with everything, but…
I strongly oppose it. The defence of “reasonable chastisement” should have been scrapped years ago, and “corporal punishment” outlawed completely, as it has been in some European countries. Inflicting violence on children in order to “punish” them is child-abuse, and there is evidence that it causes psychological damage in later life. Worse still, it inures them to violence, and teaches them that having power and control over someone else means having the right to inflict violence on them. That’s a toxic message.
Also, David Lammy is an idiot. As is Boris Johnson. Britain’s major parties are generally like Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
*hugs* That’s awful. What line of work are you in? And which country?
More *hugs*.
Wasn’t there one district in Ohio that did that in the last Presidential election?
As were giants. This comes much later (1676) but I seem to remember that the first dinosaur bone to be classified under the modern system was (and no, I am not googling this one) Scrotum humanae — the distal end of a femur. It really did look like a giant scrotum turned to stone.
The First Fossil Hunters: Dinosaurs, Mammoths, and Myth in Greek and Roman Times
A great book if you’re interested in reading more about that. Understandable even if you know next to nothing about paleontology.
Being depressed sucks. It’s a physical feeling of malaise and exhaustion that I can’t shake no matter how hard I try. I need to talk to a gender counselor as soon as I can, but I’m scared to do so.
Being dehydrated sucks. Being dry so much that your throat, eyes, and lips are dry hurts. You can’t breathe, plus you’ve got a headache, you’re sore, and you’re tired.
Being depressed and dehydrated is the worst feeling I’ve had in a long time.
@walton #69
Good call. It’s ridiculous that a child would be less protected by law from violence than an adult would.
People are actually trying to say that if parents could
disciplineabuse their kids, then the London riots wouldn’t have taken place. Utter shit.Beatrice, also check out “Big cats and their fossil relatives”.
Beautifully illustrated.
— — — — —
Reading the thread about islamic non-science (hadith this and hadith that) made me recall the name Hastur, the rival of Ctulhu that lives on a world in the Hyades star cluster. Is there any way we can shoehorn him (it) into some contemporary religious narative? Like, inventing germ theory before microscopes, or whatever.
Joining the Depression Front… oddly, the depression or whatever is the only part of my psyche I don’t anthropomorphize, or rather crittero-morphize. All my stomping, flapping, roaring mental menagerie goes away, and there’s just bleak silence full of unseen knives. I’ve been nicknaming it my “internal abuser” because it sounds exactly like the gaslighting he pushed on me, that nothing I liked or did or even was, mattered. I’m just trying to learn, during those times, to take it on faith that the rest of my self is loyal and will return.
*anklehugs* to the yous of y’all.
Hi, thread.
I woke up to this story on NPR about ketamine for treatment-resistant depression. I wish there were more information therein on whether K is a one-shot or a long-term treatment, let alone side effects, contraindications, etc. Still, it’s interesting that here is yet another bad, bad “recreational drug” that can help the deeply depressed when pharmaceuticals fail.
The comment thread is drawing the self-righteous “natchurrrraaaaal” scolds who consider any sort of psych medication inherently bad. Yep, I’ve had something like 15 years of therapy total in my life, I take SSRIs so I can work and pay taxes and all that shit, and that makes me a “cheater” looking for the “easy way out.” Fucking puritanical douchemops.
I don’t anthropomorphize my depression at all. I don’t tend to anthropomorphize things. I like the fact that things are things, not additional sentient beings that I would have to cultivate relationships with. That would be exhausting.
I’m sorry you lost your job, Phledge. It sucks especially that it was with a friend. I hope you manage to maintain your friendship with her.
@Giliell: I have what I call an “autoforgetting” function. It works best on anything related to trauma or progress. ~;>
Also, “navelglazing” makes me smile and think of Zen-like contemplation of donut holes.
Katherine,
*more hugs*
Feel better soon.
@Walton #69
I was pretty lucky when I was a kid. The worst I’d get was the “wooden spoon” from my mother, but she never hit very hard.
One incident I will never forget was when I was in primary school (I think the equivalent in the US is “elementary school”). Apparently I did something bad, and was sent to the principal’s office. All the kids in the school knew that the principal had a massive walking cane that he kept inside his office, and I noticed it leaning against the wall as I walked in the room. I remember seeing him tower over me, asking me what I did (as if he didn’t know), and how I told him I was sorry. As I was talking he walked slowly to the other side of the room, picked up the cane and walked back in front of me, holding it behind his back. I was shitting bricks. I pleaded with him not to hit me with it, several times. Eventually, he put it back in its place against the wall. I am getting chills just writing about it here.
To be honest, I now think that it was only an empty threat. I don’t really believe anymore that he actually hit anyone with that thing. But I still think that it’s a kind of psychological torture.
<_<
…Does this make me a bad person?
Image – Oglaf’s Lizard of Guilt
Pteryxx, #80: what about the Cumsprite?
(at work, not linking, sorry)
Aw, but the image is safe. It’s just the lizard Oglaf uses to sell books. “Buyer’s Remooooorse!” (Also, ‘e sells plushie Cumsprites. ♥ )
Personally, I think the cumsprites are kind of… context-specific. I’d LOVE to live in a world where someone’s orgasm was marked by a little spray of fireworks, and they (and whoever they were with, if any) walked around with sparkles floating around their head for the next day. I’d smile and give them a thumbs-up.
Hmm, idea for alien race…
@ KG (& Walton et al)
Serendipity? BBC article on exactly the issues we discussed recently: Linky.
@ Kitty
{theophontes leans back in leather chair, touches fingertips together and looks over the tops of bifocals} Hungover?
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Imagine it on a shelf next to one of these…
I get this feeling often, FWIW.
====
I was never hit by anyone at all when I was a child. It wasn’t something that my parents would ever have even considered doing, and it wouldn’t even have occurred to me that it was legal for them to do so (though I later learned that the defence of “reasonable chastisement” still technically exists in English law, although it’s very limited). And in schools it has been illegal in England since 1987. (I was born in ’89.) When I was eleven or twelve, I can remember a temporary teacher we had, who was from Montserrat and an extremely devout Christian, being fired because she slapped a student (apparently; I didn’t see it myself).
Appallingly, in the US, I gather that “spanking” children in schools and the home is still legal and normal in many places, especially in the South. This is astonishing and horrifying to me.
*hugs* and a big glass of orange juice for Kitty.
@theophontes:
No, just dehydrated and depressed.
I got the wooden spoon from my mom when I was bad. Even at a young age I was smart enough to act like it was the worst thing ever even though she would barely tap it; my sister would say baffling smart-aleck things like “that didn’t hurt” and she would get toys or TV priveleges removed.
Thinking about this actually reminds me of an example of the danger of religious patriarchy: my mother only did the wooden spoon to appease my dad, who believed in capital punishment and would actually spank us if my mom wasn’t around to do the wooden spoon. She couldn’t tell him that she didn’t want to do physical punishments because she was supposed to submit to her husband.
Some time after they divorced she finally felt comfortable telling me about some of the things they disagreed on and I got a better sense of how much my mom was looking out for me; looking back I can think of a lot of times she could have been a lot less miserable if it weren’t for her religious rules preventing her from opening her mouth.
@ Kitty
Then I prescribe hugs and orange juice.
{sends hugs through interwebs}
Bleh.
You know, the fashion industry has figured out that some women are smaller than average, and has created “petite” clothing for us. This makes my life a lot easier.
At the moment, I would really appreciate it if the pharmaceutical industry would figure out something similar. It would be nice if a doctor could look at me and say, “Hmm, she’s short and small. Maybe she should get a lower dose of drugs. I’ll give her the petite version.”
But no. Instead, I’m at home waiting to be sure that I’m done puking, because the lowest available dose of birth control pills that might help my acne is still way too high a dose for me and my body thinks it has morning sickness.
*******
On a brighter note, I’m almost done the revised version of The Paper That Does Not Die. One week to go, and then I can submit it and think about something else for a while.
Kitty, is the dehydration caused in part by indoor heating? A humidifier or air-mister might help.
Nutmeg:
I’ve had doctors tell me repeatedly that drugs don’t work that way. Supposedly doses are completely independent of body mass. Never mind that the standard doses of many drugs simply don’t work on my 350 lb ass.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934191.html
20 states allow corporal punishment of kids.
Here in Texas, there’s a Christian radio station (next to NPR) that I’ve heard describe how parents MUST hit the child as severely as it takes to make them obey, or else the parents will be responsible for their own child’s damnation. Also, God will guide their hands to ensure the kid doesn’t die. I wish I’d had the stomach to tape it.
Dang I hate physical punishment. Especially because I was at the receiving end of it when I was a kid. Stupid Korean culture thing. It got me a gigantic bruise on the entire length of my my lower leg once. Thankfully, my parents don’t do that kind of things anymore, otherwise my sister would have been the victim of it.
@Nutmeg (with sympathy): are they the kind of pills you could cut in half, to teeny-ize the dose?
@Pteryxx #93
That’s sickening :(
Religious bullshit aside, here in the UK this proposed legislation does leave a massive grey area for the hitter to exploit. How much is too much? Do you hit harder for more severe behaviour? It’s just so wrong.
Perhaps I’m being needlessly pedantic here (but if I can’t here, then where can I be?), but “anthropomorphizing” specifically means imparting human characteristics onto things. I think most of these examples only work if agency is considered as strictly a human trait. Unfortunately, I don’t have a better word to use.
I wonder if any of those people would have liked to walk the streets of London in the 1800’s.
Personification?
(Also, if y’all get needlessly pedantic about the question “Can we be needlessly pedantic here?” won’t you get into an infinite pedanticity loop? <_< )
Wouldn’t using violence to “correct” children’s behaviour teach them that violence is the way to “correct” anyone’s behaviour?
Well, I don’t know, that depends on what you mean by “infinite”, and anyway, the Second Law of Thermodynamics would mean that…help!
y’know, possibly appropriate:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/alstefanelli/2012/01/30/how-to-scare-the-shit-out-of-your-kid/
Yeah, it baffles me that doctors don’t always consider body mass. My mom is small like me and she’s gotten lots of over-prescriptions over the years. This isn’t the first for me, either.
I could try to cut them in half and gradually scale up the dose, but I think I’ll just give up. I was trying the birth control pills as a supplement to my ultra-heavy-duty acne meds. This was my second attempt – last time, a few months ago, they just made me really nauseous and moody, and I gave up after a few days. It’s annoying, because the lower-dose pills don’t work for me anymore. So if I ever actually meet a guy I want to sleep with, I’ll have to get an IUD, which will probably also be made for someone bigger than me.
Oh well. Breakfast stayed down, so I’ll be off to the lab soon.
*****
On anthropomorphization: I’m lucky not to suffer from anything worse than a very mild case of winter blues, which I don’t personify. I do tend to personify the good side of me, the side that fights off those feelings. To me, it seems like a semi-distinct personality inside of me, one that’s more intuitive and realistic. It makes itself known primarily through snarky but encouraging thoughts, and somehow seems a bit more “male” than my regular internal monologue. Sometimes I picture it fighting off the blues with a large club. Irrational, but effective.
QFT
If she’s more religious than you can handle now, is it likely that it’d be easier to handle with more time and emotion invested in the relationship? Probably not. I think, better to end it now, if it is truly an intractable incompatibility.
–
Welcome in, Phledge and antidenialism.
–
I always visualised my depression as my thoughts and self circling a drain, in constant danger of going down, *slorrrrp!* There is no “up”, there is no light and no color; just grays shading to black. It was almost impossible to fall asleep for the feelings of uselessness and hopelessness, but once asleep, I was extremely reluctant to wake up and drag myself through another bleak, joyless day; even the bad dreams seemed like a better bet.
–
*hugs* all ’round.
–
I got the wooden spoon, too. The trend in striking implements is darkly funny.
***
I mentioned Max Blumenthal’s book Republican Gomorrah (super cheap for Kindle, in the US at least) a few weeks ago. A good part of it deals with James Dobson and how his ideas about violence towards children have shaped the Religious Right. Here’s an interview with him about the book. He starts talking about Dobson shortly after the 30-minute mark.
I don’t externalise as such, but when I am down I often have the perception of ‘rational’ me observing the things I am doing and thinking and saying, and knowing that they are counterproductive and not helpful, but if very down not able to affect those things. I don’t get too bad episodes, certainly not in recent years, but when I do get them I find the knowledge that it will pass a comfort.
cicely @104: I know what you mean about the depressive sleep. I remember vividly the awful way I was in one night toward the end of my junior year of college: I was supposed to go work on my engineering lab project (my group was making a turbine flow meter) and normally I would have been super excited about getting a little stoned and playing around with pipes and tools and glue. Instead of doing all that, I decided to go take a nap at 7pm to escape the feelings of dread I was having.
There was a Dr. Steve Brule sketch that reminded me of this where he says “go to bed early, ya doofus, cause when you’re sleeping there’s no lonely times, just dreams.” That characterizes what my depressive state was like pretty well: knowing that I needed to do something and getting a little stressed about it, then sleeping instead of doing the thing I needed to do.
Oh yea, I forgot about this. Weird dream time:
So I’m in the forest with a guy, just hiking together, having a good time. While we’re walking, I see this horse, and it’s got a saddle blanket which says “Lakers” on it. ‘Oh hey, the Lakers are here, maybe this horse got away from them.’ I say. My friend and I get the horse and walk towards the lake because, you know, the Lakers are going to be swimming.
Sure enough, we get to the lakeside and there’s a few horses tied to a big log and some towels and bags and such. We tie up the horse and then the Lakers come out of the water – wearing their full jerseys, by the way. So now we’re hanging out with the Lakers, eating some lunch, talking, and one of them imparts the fact that he had to (literally) kill to get a position on the team, and that they have to be really careful of donations cause it might be a poisoned fruit basket that they’re receiving.
That was about the time I woke up and was very confused…
One of our favorite producers of schlock art, Jon McNaughton, is at it again. This guy is also a mormon, and he sells lots of “art” in the morridor. You too can pay $940 for a framed painting of Obama keeping everyone in chains.
To get the full effect, you have to click to enlarge, or view the “Read More” provided with each painting.
http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/page/view_collection/New%20Releases?artpiece=419
http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/page/view_collection/New%20Releases?artpiece=379
This second painting shows Barack Obama standing with his foot on the constitution, while pointedly ignoring the “Forgotten Man” on the park bench.
A satire of one of McNaughton’s paintings was featured in October 2009 on Pharyngula:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/gosh_i_think_ive_got_a_new_des.php
And here’s PZ’s first post about the right-wing kitsch that McNaughton puts out:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/the_goggles_they_do_nothing.php
@Katherine Lorraine, #108
Awesome dream, the ones that don’t make sense are always the best.
I was very tired on Saturday night and my dream was about mud wrestling in front of a dominatrix. I have NO idea where that came from!
We need to start photoshop contests on every new piece he puts out.
Katherine: I think you have next year’s team poster.
I bet it was Pau Gasol.
Ing: Googling on “Jon McNaughton Photoshop” brings up, among other things, One Nation Under Cthulhu.
Derp. I should have clicked on Lynna’s last link there.
@Ms Diasy Cutter
Uh yeah it was in the post. I was saying we should have contests to do that with all of his work.
Muppets fight back against Faux News.
The New Yorker published an interesting article about “GroupThink” and/or “brainstorming.” Like most people, I enjoy having my conclusions confirmed, and this article confirmed my suspicions that committees often don’t work. Sometimes brainstorming groups can be a waste of time. Committees sometimes get in the way of coming to workable solutions, especially if their working environment stresses being polite.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/01/30/120130fa_fact_lehrer
The article discusses a popular book that outlines the rules for a good brainstorming technique, and these rules include banning criticism and negative feedback. But those scientists, they can’t leave a poorly researched conclusion alone. They tested the premise, and found that banning criticism and negative feedback guaranteed poor results.
Guess what, debate, criticism and even off-the-wall negative feedback are effective and lead to an increase in suggested solutions to problems, and also to an upgrade in the quality of solutions offered.
The link given above lets everyone read an intro to the article, but only subscribers can access the whole thing. I’ll list few of the interesting tidbits below for those that don’t have a New Yorker subscription. These are all excerpts, word for word:
The brainstorming groups slightly outperformed the groups given no instructions, but teams given the debate condition were the most creative by far. On average, they generated nearly twenty per cent more ideas.
Nemeth’s studies sugest that the ineffectiveness of brainstorming stems from the very thing that Osborn though was most important. As Nemeth puts it, “While the instruction ‘Do not criticize’ is often cited as the important instruction in brainstorming, this appears to be a counterproductive strategy. Our findings show that debate and criticism do not inhibit ideas but, rather, stimulate them relative to every other condition.” Osborn thought that imagination is inhibited by the merest hint of criticism, but Nemeth’s work and a number of other studies have demonstrated that it can thrive on conflict.
There’s this Pollyannish notion that the most important thing to do when working together is stay positive and get along, to not hurt anyone’s feelings,” she says. “Well, that’s just wrong. Maybe debate is going to be less pleasant, but it will always be more productive…”
Another good article from The New Yorker is “The Caging of America,” which is a close look at the mass incarceration of American citizens, and of illegal immigrants in the U.S. The article also exposes the prison systems that benefit financially from keeping six million people under correctional supervision — “more than were in Stalin’s gulags.”
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2012/01/30/120130crat_atlarge_gopnik
This entire article is available to everyone (six pages online) Below are a few excerpts.
The above quote is from the 2005 Annual Report of the Corrections Corporation of America, a private company that spends millions of dollars lobbying U.S. legislators, and that has ties to several right-wing politicians.
The article goes on to destroy the Republican Party’s claim that it is this system of mass incarceration that accounts for the drop in violent crime.
Ok people, random thought for the day:
I was just reading this week’s “Nature” and “Science” and was reading about the use of stem cells for certain types of blindness.
I hate to say it but in my ongoing recognition of my own Fundy Over-exposure Induced Bitterness, Lethargy and Exasperation Syndrome (FOIBLES) one of my first thoughts was that I can see some quack-a-fundy somewhere claiming that this is how Jesus made the blind see. Jesus, son of god, sons are young, stems cells are “young” cells, Jesus touching the eyes introduced special Jesus Stem Cells (TM) into the eyes of the blind people…ergo Jesus makes the blind see.
It disturbs me that some area of my brain is so attuned to utter batshittery from various quarters that it actually REPLICATES appreciably accurate pastiches of this stuff and serves it up to me when I am reading real science.
If I see Ray Comfort I’mma gonna kick him square in the nuts. Fucking mind virus spreading assclam.
Louis
Yeah. Tell them to tell that to all the obese women who got pregnant because their birth control dosage wasn’t high enough.
@ Nutmeg
Do the birth control pills have to have higher doses of hormones to be effective treatment for acne? Because I googled it, and it seems Ortho Tri-Cyclen can be used as a treatment. They have a low hormone version of that called Ortho Tri-Cyclen Lo. I take that one (not for acne) and I’m very small and it hasn’t caused me any problems.
GAAAH. SFW but liable to spike your blood pressure.
Watching StevoR be a reprehensible asshole in the Rep Larry Pittman thread, I continue to be amazed at how willing people are to accept large amounts of doubt when being wrong could mean the execution of an innocent person.
And yet for many of those same people,when it comes to a subject like Evolution, ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY is required.
Myeck, he’s also in this thread insisting that space exploration takes precedence over social programs to help the poor, because OMG HUMANITY WILL GO EXTINCT IF WE DON’T GET OFF-PLANET!! Which means he’s going to vote for Swingrich because Newtie made noises about space exploration while pandering for votes to Floridians.
@ StarStuff
I’m not sure. My dermatologist told me that Alesse, which I was using before, didn’t have high enough progesterone to help with acne. It’s only a minor nuisance that I can’t use it to help with acne – I’ll just continue to fry my oil glands with the heavy-duty acne meds. I was mostly just pissed off this morning because stuff that anyone else can handle makes me puke.
If I ever need birth control for its original purpose, I’ll look into some of the low-dose options. Alesse seemed to be too low of a dose, but I’ve lost about 10% of my body weight since I was last on it, so maybe it would work okay for me again.
What’s amusing is that Swingrich thinks the private sector will take over for NASA on space exploration, and StevoR bought that line of bullshit. There is nothing that would prevent the private sector from doing anything under Obama either. I’m afraid the spark of reason is not present there.
Thanks for posting that. I’m glad people are drawing attention to this issue. The scale of mass incarceration in America (both in the criminal justice system, and of non-criminal immigration detainees) is appalling and comes at a terrible human cost, and the detained population is staggeringly high: not far off 800 per 100,000, far more than in any other industrialized country. (And then there’s the huge racial disparity and institutionalized racism; among African-American males, 4,749 per 100,000 were incarcerated in 2009, vastly higher than the general population.)
I’ve written a little about the detention of undocumented migrants recently. This article at Alternet is also a good analysis of the way that the institutionally-racist criminal justice system has the effect of entrenching racial inequities.
(By the way – not intended as criticism of any sort, just a general point of information – most immigration lawyers and immigrants’ rights activists, in my experience, prefer to talk about “undocumented” or “irregular” migrants, rather than using the colloquial phrase “illegal immigrants”. For one thing, the phrase “illegal immigrant” has no legal meaning, and nowhere appears in the Immigration and Nationality Act or in the Code of Federal Regulations; it’s political shorthand, but it isn’t a legally meaningful term. For another, the phrase “illegal immigrant” has come to be associated in American (and in British) culture with discrimination and stigma; when a group of people are popularly labelled “illegals”, as though their entire identity were “illegal”, it contributes to their exclusion from society, as well as to the false perception that they are excluded wholly from the protection of the law or that they have no rights. That’s why I prefer not to talk about “illegal immigrants” or “illegal immigration”, since I feel like, in so doing, we’re implicitly conceding a bit of rhetorical ground to the xenophobic right wing.)
I’m not going back to the Pittman/StevoR thread right now; I’m not in the mood to deal with that level of stupidity. Death-penalty-apologetics is one thing that really, really, really pisses me off, to the point that it makes me feel stressed and angry to have to deal with it.
StevoR thinks, or pretends to think, that there is some magical way in which it could be ensured that all trials come to the correct conclusion. That he also credits the words of a many-times proven liar running in an election, tells us all we need to know about StevoR’s intelligence. Unfortunately, near-unbelievable stupidity is far from the worst thing about StevoR.
Well, only those smaller and weaker than themselves, or otherwise unable to retaliate.
From the article Loud@65 linked to:
If I seek out David Lammy and physically punish him for saying this, that obviously won’t be violence or abuse, will it?
Walton, good point about the use of “undocumented” as opposed to “Illegal.” Thanks.
Yeah, the medicine dosages being dependent on body weight: DUH. I mean, I work in an animal lab. Every time the animals are dosed with anything, the dosage is always given in g/kg (that is, g of drug per kilogram of body weight). So a 200 g mouse gets 15 mg of drug while a 250 g mouse gets 18.75 mg of drug. This is basic pharmacology. If a doctor – or pharmacist – doesn’t get this basic concept, WTF is wrong?
I’ve noticed that my dosage of meds has had to be adjusted several times in the past few years – and that these adjustments have very neatly tracked my body weight.
God is love.
Our Heavenly Father
Who is love incarnate, demonstrating once again that us mere humans, who believe that love generates affection, compassion, sacrifice and understanding, are without knowledge. You who are omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent surely know better than us. Us wretches could never be so loving that we would let millions of children starve to death
hundreds of thousands die in tsunamis and earthquakes
one child die every thirty seconds from malaria
Us humans could never be so loving. We would not conceive of post partum abortion the way our loving lord does. We could never love so fully as to smother our loved ones with collapsed buildings or a wall of water. We are so inadequate that our thoughts never entertain the idea of loving our dear ones with diseases to rack their bodies unto death. Lord, our love is like nothing next to yours.
Amen.
@ Nutmeg: you mentioned an IUD before… there are hormonal and non-hormonal versions available. I wonder if the hormonal IUD might be easier on your body, since it’s a continual release of the hormones instead of getting the dose all at once when you take the pill? Not a doc personally, but it might be worth asking your OB/GYN about.
Thanks, sisu. At the moment the question is purely academic. I’m far too shy to meet guys and I’m not even all that sure that I want to. Maybe someday I’ll be in a position to look into it.
Ha ha! I made a tumblr. I’ll probably be tired of it within the month, but for now it amuses me.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/30/catholic-churches-evangelize-against-obama-en-masse/
I just found out that I’m going to be able to go to the CFI conference in Orlando this March! I’m super excited :D
I’m not sure whether I’m going to go to the CFI conference.
If I do, however, I’ll be the guy hanging out in the elevators at 4AM. ;-)
I think anthropomorphising or otherwise externalising depression is an incredibly useful technique in maintaining whatever recovery you can manage. Yeah, of course it’s not technically true – but it’s a helpful model for many people. My own version is what I call “brain spam” – those “you’re worthless/you should kill yourself” thoughts are not “me” but my brain misfiring and sending persistent and annoying junk mail that I have to keep deleting.
@Giliell: you mean navel-gazing, not glazing ;) I wasn’t thinking of doughnuts but of windows. Glazed doughnuts are an abomination unto Nuggan. Or unto the lord of cinnamon sugar, anyway.
@Katherine, why are you dehydrated? Go drink something right now! If it’s an illness, get well soon! (Gastrolyte or “sports drinks” are your friends.)
@ Ben
And if you do, I’ll be the girl taking the stairs.
We-ell, I was thinking of navel-glazing, only on a completely different topic *ehm* *blush*
On a cheerfull note, #1 told me today that I am the bestest mum in the world.
What did I do to earn such praise? I bought doughnuts. Which brings us back to the glazing…
Spanking
I once suggest to people who were in favour of spanking that the next time, instead of giving them a ticket with a fine for parking violation, the cop should tell them to lower their pants, bend over the hood of the car and give them a spanking.
Somehow they thought I was talking nonsense and that would be ridiculous and stuff.
And it’s always been wrong (it works OK for animals of similar body size, but not for extrapolating very far).
This even has a name, the “elephantine fallacy”, after poor Tusko, killed by a directly scaled dose of LSD.
Totally thread bankrupt, but I wanted to chime in to second the recommendation for the electric nit comb. It is a fabulous way to periodically check your own hair. It wouldn’t work on my daughter’s long, curly locks, but the boys and I used it frequently during our last outbreak. I like having it now because I can grab it at the first sign of suspicious itching and don’t have to rely on my far-sighted husband’s best efforts.
Fortunately, he is still my most reliable go-to when it comes to checking suspicious skin moles.
Now, back to reading in a pitiful attempt to catch up.
The Sailor #138
How weird! They understand the First Amendment protects freedom of religion – and then totally get the meaning of freedom of religion fucking wrong! WTF.
Lynna – @117 & 118 – Thanks for the excerpts. Looks like I may want a New Yorker subscription.
Back to catching up.
Giliell:
Are we trying to discourage or encourage parking violations here?
Ugh…Imagine Officer Pike as the casual paddling police officer
Ing: I was being flip. Of course, it’s a bad idea. Lots of people fantasize about things that IRL are bad ideas.
Dear busy people in cars:
When I am crossing the street at a brisk pace in a crosswalk with the green Walk sign lit, and the car in front of you has stopped to let me cross, and you honk your horn, I cannot help but think that you want the driver of the stopped car to run me over, thereby denting my lunchbox and killing me to death. This does offend me somewhat. Please keep your vehicular homicide wish to yourself. Thanks and have a nice day.
Love, Cipher
Yeah, Giliell’s scenario did sound strangely like the setup for some bad erotic fanfic of some sort…
In seriousness, this touches on the other reason why I strongly oppose spanking of children. I think there’s an argument to be made that spanking on the buttocks is inherently sexual, on a subliminal level, even if it’s not intended or understood as such. The buttocks are an intimate area of the body, and the idea of ritualized physical dominance and humiliation is also something that many people instinctively sexualize. (It’s no accident that lots of people fetishize spanking, of the consensual adult foreplay kind; judging by its prevalence in erotic art and literature throughout history, it’s probably not a stretch to say that it’s the most common sexual fetish.)
For precisely this reason, I’d argue that spanking of children is abusive, and can border on sexual assault, even if it’s not done with any sort of sexual motivation. And I gather that there is evidence that it can be damaging to children’s psychosexual development, though I know that’s a controversial area in the empirical literature.
(Consensual adult spanking, on the other hand, is A-OK in my book.)
On second thought, I’m sorry if #152 was inappropriate or clumsily-expressed, particularly the first sentence. It’s not really appropriate to be flippant about this topic, and I’m sorry.
(I get extremely socially-anxious when discussing topics like this, as I worry that I’ve never quite got to grips with the rules of social propriety. Sometimes I end up overcompensating for this by apologizing too much.)
so.. update on the whole tablet thing.
after all the feedback and research, I decided to go with the ASUS transf. prime for a tablet, AND get a kindle 3g touch for outdoor use.
but…
turns out that the ASUS prime is only for sale in NZ in one online store, and it’s exactly DOUBLE the price it is in the States.
I can’t even order it in the States though, because it also turns out that ASUS stopped shipping them to the states because of problems with wifi and GPS connectivity, so nobody in the states has one for sale that ships to NZ.
OK, so, next option; instead of the tablet/reader combo, I’ll just buy a B&N Nook tablet. It’s cheap for what you get, has way better hardware and is expandable, unlike the Kindle Fire, and everyone tells me it works great for PDF’s too.
but wait…
Turns out B&N have NO PLANS to ever sell the Nook in NZ. OK, so I can buy it in the states and have someone ship it to me…
but wait…
turns out B&N also don’t plan to provide ACCESS to any of their app or bookstore to New Zealanders either.
*pulling hair out now*
Is it any wonder NZ has such a high internet piracy rate?
hell, you basically have to hack, or steal, just to get ACCESS to anything here. It’s not like we wouldn’t pay for it, if the price wasn’t gouging, or if it was even available.
so, now, I have no clue what I should do.
I could have someone buy me a Nook from the states, ship it to me, and then I could hack it to install the full version of android (which would void the warranty), or if going 10″ tablet maybe I could settle for an ipad2 instead, since at least Apple doesn’t price gouge here, though frankly it is an inferior tablet compared to the ASUS.
grrr.
Walton:
Pfft, that was mild. I was racking my brains for a reply along the lines of Starsky & Hutch & the Naughty Naughty Lawyer Who Drives Too Fast in His Lexus.
Walton #152, I thought the response was perfectly in line with what others were saying. ;)
I am not a parent, nor will I ever be one, but my sister–let’s call her Emily–has two fantastic daughters aged 7 and 9 years. We’ve talked a lot about what makes these two girls tick, and the bottom line (no pun intended) is that she and her husband dole out repercussions that are most like what the kids would experience were they adults engaging in the same type of behavior. And always, ALWAYS with an explanation of this. Our parents, on the other hand, continued spankings (non-bare-bottomed) until we were well into our teens. I had already come to the realization that, if you still have to keep spanking us at this age? Your punishment doesn’t work, assholes. It got to the point where I would just bend over and laugh.
Thanks for the welcomes, everyone. For those who asked, I was working as a scribe in a family practice office. Which opens up a whole ‘nuther can o’ worms, since I’m actually a medical school graduate with my first year of residency behind me. I should be working as a fucking doctor but I made some horrendous choices (oh, Cheeky Velociraptor, you are irrepressible!) and didn’t secure ongoing post-graduate medical education. Trying to reverse that enormous mistake has been a huge undertaking.
I’ve driven a Lexus IS300. The suspension would never survive.
The acceleration was quite impressive, though.
Or, apparently, the fat people with cancer who didn’t receive high enough chemotherapy dosages. Horrifying.
Benjamin @#140: HAHA! Boy, that sure is a funny joke. And well-timed too! http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/arrested-mexican-confesses-to-beating-canadian-tourist/article2318957/ LOLZ, women have nothing to fear in elevators, and dudes should totally joke about cornering them there.
Oh, are you fucking kidding me?
On SteveoR
That guy is really stupid. He actually believes Newt Gingrich, just because his pet project got mentioned. He acts like humanity will go extinct right now or something. If he is really worried about human extinction, he should worry about the environment.
Well its not like it’ll cost him anything.
More fail from Reddit’s atheist community. TWs for rape jokes and victim blaming.
Ms. Daisy Cutter #161
I cannot see it in the linked article, does this institution receive public funds?
Is the godless community salient enough that we can afford to start ostracizing members now?
Ugh.
I thought Ben was being funny. He’s not very good at it, but neither are most of us.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
I just posted something on FB that could be worse:
Dear Superbowl fans, I have four parking spaces and a spare bed. The parking spaces are $150 each, the bed is $1000 a night. One to a customer.
It’s only 52.7 miles from the field of your dreams. Call me at 555-1212.
(p.s. Hookers cost extra.)
++++++++++++++++++++
p.s. I’m always going to be about an hour behind what everyone else posts, because FTB can’t even manage to load 25 comments at a time on my dial-up. I think it says something about me that I persevere.
I’m not sure what it says, but I’ll leave that as an exercise for the students.
Ing – “Is the godless community salient enough that we can afford to start ostracizing members now?”
Now that’s funny!
The Sailor
Benjamin Geiger’s #140 is much too soon.
and, given his history here, it is more evidence that he just doesn’t get it.
Your FB ad might be funny if I understood it.
My thoughts as well, chigau. It’s too soon on a bunch of levels, and Benjamin Geiger really, really doesn’t get it a lot of the time.
Also we like TLC better.
chigau, yeah, I actually do get it, but are you talking about here, or other places that you know about?
+++++++++++++++
My FB post stands on it’s own. There is some context but I deliberately mentioned it here.
+++++++++++++++
“Also we like TLC better.”
Mom always liked you better.
Remind me again why I listen to you chucklefucks?
Oh, right. Because it makes me feel nicer by comparison.
Be sure to let me know when it’s okay to do Lincoln assassination jokes.
Hey Benjamin, Sheila Nabb’s out of her coma, she would totally love to hear your funny joke! I mean, she can’t laugh because her jaw’s wired shut, but hey.
I love elevator creep jokes. They remind me that even though I have a fucked up knee and too much walking puts me in incredible pain, I do love taking the stairs just because of funny creeps like you.
Yeah, Ben @#174, these humorless feminists just can’t let the doods have any fun. Broken face, shmoken face. What I wanna know is, was she asking for it?
Asshat.
Benjamin will not be shunned by me. He has talent in photography, he’s probably a good teacher.
He haz him some smarts, and he iz capable of learning.
His joke, in my opinion, was self-deprecating. Or maybe it’s just the way I would do it.
I haz me some smarts, and I can learn.
I know Benjamin can too.
Broken face? Wait, what?
…
Dammit.
The Sailor
We’ve got lumps of it round the back.
(translation: What?)
++++++++++
I honestly did not get the FB ad.
I’m a Canadian, not-a-sports-fan. I have no real understanding of the Superbowl.
++++++++++
However, I have alway adored the Smothers Brothers.
Yeah, that joke was intended to be self-deprecating. I completely forgot about (didn’t hear about? I dunno) the more recent story.
I used to think Ben could learn, until the lunchbox discussion provided a beautiful demonstration of the opposite.
I just have to say that “asshat” has to be one of my favorite insults.
@ Alethea
Lunchbox discussion?
Alethea H. Claw: What’s this about lunchboxes?
My mental illness has different avatars. Some are anthropomorphic, and some are more like objects. For example, my depression’s current manifestation is the Black Hole. Emotion gets sucked in and nothing ever comes out. My ability to give a fuck is severely diminished, and I don’t even care that I don’t care.
Do you care? Probably not. Do I care that you probably don’t care? Nope. But it is somewhat comforting to know that others assign avatars or metaphors to their brains’ fucked-uppedness like I do.
You folks are pretty neat most of the time.
I’m guessing “the lunchbox discussion” was the time I asked for advice about transporting lunch to school, and everyone got butthurt that I actually pointed out problems I saw with their suggestions.
Perhaps you should listen to the chucklefucks more.
Oh for fucks sake.
Yep. Being irritated with Benjamin couldn’t possibly have anything to do with his consistently painting past interactions with himself in the role of victim.
There are lots of times I fucked up because I was depressed/angry and it was easier to get out of the car/lose the job/relationship … and that’s what I did. I fucked up. But sometimes it isn’t fucking up. Sometimes you have to do what you think is right. I can’t always tell the difference.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
My depression isn’t anthropomorphic, it’s me. I can’t put it on any other thing or person. I also realize it’s not always how I am. It’s not even most of what I am. That’s what I’ve learned about me, and I’m going to keep working on it.
I don’t know if everyone’s seen this yet, but Virginia state senator Janet Howell has come up with an appropriate response to Republican legislators’ constant attempts to restrict access to abortion.
The anti-abortion bill’s original sponsor, however, seems to have missed the point:
Of course not. We’re all just mean and don’t understand his clever humour and inability to feed himself like an adult.
I love Janet Howell’s amendment so much. I’m also not surprised that it went over its target’s head.
Must be nice to have the privilege to ‘completely [forget] about’ the story of a woman with all the bones in her face broken by a man in an elevator with her.
You mean the privilege of being human, and therefore having a fallible memory?
Whatever you say, HAL.
Waaaaahhhh, better whine some more about how mean people are instead of bothering to read the news on occasion than to say “oops, my bad”? Admitting you said something inappropriate is human, Benjamin. Acting like a petulant child because we’re so gauche as to point out your fuckup is simply stupid.
Geiger
The whole elevatorgate thing was never a joke.
Never A Joke.
If you knew or forgot about a more recent elevator thing is not relevant.
It was never a joking matter.
Ever.
And I did so, yet you continue to act like a fuckwit.
Yeah.. I suppose it was too subtle for the Republicans to grasp. (After all, some of them apparently couldn’t figure out that the Onion article about the “Planned Parenthood Abortionplex” was satire.)
Quite, chigau. It’s just in even worse taste now. As opposed to being a “joke” about the hilarity of making women fear for their safety (Oh, but you’re being self-deprecatingly supportive of rape culture! That’s totes okay then!), it’s a quick glance to the news to see a woman who was attacked in an elevator who’s been lucky enough to be out of her induced coma in time for reconstructive surgery.
I don’t even get how it’s supposed to be self-deprecating humour. I mean “Lol, I’m such a creep the only way I can talk to women is to make them feel unsafe, while enjoying the nearly total support of my peers!” How is pointing out the privilege you have to freely scare people supposed to be self-deprecating?
Now *that* was humorous.
Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: HOW DARE YOU THAT’S NOT FUNNY.
(I guess we’ve found the kernel of truth in that stereotype…)
Yes, I’m such a meanie. You never said anything was wrong about your shitty joke, other than it’s even more poorly timed right now.
Maybe if every time you did something fucking stupid you didn’t decide to whine that we’re all fuckwits and butthurt and actually tried to be less of an asshole, you’d have an easier time when you do fuck up. At this rate, we’ll never know.
Yep, we’re all just humourless. Certainly not that you’re about as funny as you are a Cordon Bleu chef.
Alright Ben, you should probably shut the fuck up now before you dig yourself deeper into the shit pile. Seriously, do you even read what you’re saying? Or do you really just need attention this much?
I read “I’ll be in the elevator!” as basically intent to troll.
Walton, it’s hard to believe it, but the US Republicans actually double down on ignorance. They don’t believe it themselves, but they think the yokels will fall for it again.
It’s hard to fault them.
Ben, stop digging. Your joke sucked. It blew up in your face. It happens. Apologize and move on.
I see upthread where you said it was intended to be “self-deprecating,” but I don’t see any admission that it was inappropriate.
Q: How many MRAs does it take to wallpaper the bathroom?
A: Just one if you slice him thin enough.
Is that funny?
Actually, yeah, that’s pretty good.
chigau, well, it would of if I hadn’t heard it before. but I did sort of *snerk* because it’s funny on different levels.
+++++++++++++
That is is as funny now as it was when it first plopped out forty plus years ago.
Oh, wait, Ben is playing the Homer card; It’s funny because it is true.
meh
You mean the privilege of being human, and therefore having a fallible memory?
Hmm, you wouldn’t happen to be old enough to remember who Lorena and John Wayne Bobbitt are, would you? Strangely, a lot of men remember that story very, VERY clearly. Besides, it’s pretty weak to cry memory loss when the event. Just. Happened.
Like feralboy said: just stop digging. Admit that your joke was a misogynist lead balloon and come join the rest of the convo. If I understand correctly, this group doesn’t bite unless requested.
In other news, woot! to the Howell amendment. Of note is the fact that the cardiac screening is a ridiculous cost for the payoff, and the rectal exam isn’t going to tell you anything about whether a patient is safe to receive an ED drug. I despise the mandatory ultrasounds, especially since many of them would end up being transvaginal at the usual gestational age at which women obtain abortions. Why can’t these douchebag misogynist religiots just let doctors do their fucking jobs?
She didn’t Bobbitt, she cut the whole thing off.
Sorry. Can we start over now?
Now that you mention it, yes, I remember it, mainly because it was a media circus (and I was actually paying attention to the media at that point). It doesn’t spring to my mind unless something brings it up (pun, as it were, entirely unintended).
Not “memory loss”, “lack of memory imprint”. I forget what I study in class most days. (And a more appropriate analogy would be: I don’t remember what happens in class on days when I don’t go to class. I can’t remember something I never learned about in the first place.)
Transvaginal ultrasounds are horrible. Not as horrible as the following joke, however.
What’s the difference between a large pizza and a Ph.D in math?
A large pizza will feed a family of four.
feralboy12:
Don’t be cutting the conversation short, now.
(I read about the reconstructive surgery they did on him. Apparently, they called it an “addidictomy”.)
evilisgood:
Mechanical engineers build weapons. Civil engineers build targets.
Mathematicians ask, “How can I concieve of it?”
Engineers ask, “How can I build it?”
Business majors ask, “How can I make a profit off of it?”
Arts majors ask, “Would you like fries with that?”
An engineer, a mathematician, and a computer scientist were traveling by jeep in the Serengeti. Suddenly, the engineer noticed a zebra with no stripes.
The engineer exclaimed, “Hey, look! A black zebra!”
The mathematician responded, “No, all we know is that there exists a zebra that is black on one side.”
The computer scientist was curled up in the fetal position, muttering, “a special case… a special case…”
Oh, Ben, you make being on TET less enjoyable sometimes.
Well, I’m off to bed. G’night all.
Glad to be of service.
And yeah, I should probably hit the sack too.
[topic: depression]
More serendipity : BBC – Why do some people never get depressed? Linky.
(Or do their journalists read TET?)
…
[topic: dehydration]
Always have some oral rehydration salts (ORS) handy. To make your own in an emergency:
six level teaspoons of sugar
1/2 teaspoon of salt
1 litre (5 cups) of boiled water.
(The above saves lives. Your body may fail to absorb water properly if your osmotic balance is out (especially in case of diarrhoea). Therefore the need to get the electrolytes right.)
Orange juice (and bananas) are also good.
No one told me it joke night. I’m glad, they would have lied to me. Again.
Sailor, what do you call a nosey hot pepper? Jalapeño business.
Oh hai Ben. I was wondering when the next time you would reveal how badly you fail at being a decent person would be. And here it is. You are posing as the victim because people told you that it is Not Cool to make a joke putting yourself in the role of Schrodinger’s Rapist. Yes, Schrodinger’s fucking rapist. Yes, I’m going there, because you already know the reference. And you also have your demonstrated history of being unwilling to respect the previously stated boundaries of a member of this community. You were disinvited from PET because of behavior like this. Go ahead and keep telling yourself that it’s all because just one or two people didn’t like you, and it’s a total coincidence that this keeps happening over and over again! HaHaHAHahaha…
But anyway, no. You don’t get to make that joke. You just don’t. Or, at the very least, you don’t get to make that joke around these parts and not expect to get any blowback. Go post on r/atheist if that’s the kind of joke you want to tell. It’s not like there’s not a vast, vast internet out there where “Haha you’re afraid of me!” is appreciated as the height of cleverness and wit. The whole misogynist world is waiting for you to join it, Ben. Those horrible feminists are just too mean and too deluded to ever appreciate you. The Sailor is right: you are intelligent and perceptive enough to be capable of learning. And yet, you do not learn. We must conclude that you have no desire to. If that’s the case, then why the fuck continue to hang around here, where you’re simply not welcome, at least until you can start treating women like people? No logical reason, I think that much is a safe guess.
@ Sailor/ Chigao
What would you call this then? Linky – HK Arts Festival (WOW)
.
.
.
.
.
.
(WOW = World of WearableArt)
Alethea – brain spam – that’s brilliant. I’ll use that.
PS: Dance architecture.
Good morning
Walton
Would you be happier if people amcked the children in the face instead?
We’ve been here before, please stop mixing adult sexuality with normal adult-child interaction.
Believe me, if I cut out every interaction that lots of adults consider a sexual turn-on, I couldn’t touch me children with pliers.
A normal parent-child relationship is inherently intimate in nature, but not sexual.
I can give you another example:
My husband and my children consider my boobs to be very, very wonderful things. Yet their motivation and reasoning is completely opposite.
Sally
If Ben learned, he’d have to hand in his victim-card and collect a decent human being-card, but that comes with terms and conditions attached.
I guess if he makes somebody cry, he gets all upset how that bad person can inflict all their pain on him.
Stop crying, you make the poor lad uncomfortable.
I’ve only recently realized this is one of those it’s funny because it’s true jokes. Without the funny.
Apologies, Beatrice. I got laid off two years ago and haven’t found a job yet, so if it’s any consolation you are not alone. Full disclosure: I’m not a mathematician, but that joke works with “Bachelor’s in Journalism” as well.
I hope that your luck improves very soon.
No apologies needed, I like dark humour. I’m just bitter.
Yours as well.
Heartbreaking to me that brilliant minds have spent years of their lives earning degrees in studies that comprise the foundation of our civilization, yet cannot earn sufficient keep to raise a family. Meanwhile, Normal Americans™ are disgusted that evolution is taught in schools and a candidate for the presidency speaks French. I am hopeful that decrying outdated modes of thinking, such as belief in god(s), moves us away from this nonsense and back to a place where all of us can be productive members of society.
Also, I want a pony.
Hmm, seems to me that this joke works with about every degree you can get.
German versions:
What does a PhD in history with a job say to a PhD in in history without a job?
Would you like your fries with or without ketchup?
What do you do with a PhD in philosophy?
Drive a cab.
I think it’s interesting how many people who earn college degrees in the end get stuck with the occupation they did during their college years to earn money.
Why did they have to earn money?
Right, working class/ lower middle class parents.
Where do they end up?
Working class/ lower middle class.
I spot a pattern here…
Not so cheerful news: The road has turned into its usual state of ice with a bit of snow on top. We are about the last road in the whole city to get winter service.
Still, it’s not as bad as it was two years ago when I had to carry a baby and a toddler through slush so high it ran into the top of my boots…
You know what’s funny? I’m currently shuffling papers and calling people in a place that actually “does” mathematics. But I’m not here because of my degree, I do nothing that is even remotelly connected to my degree and I have no chance of staying here. I got it because my mom works here. I know, nothing to brag about, but I wasn’t willing to decline when I know that even if I didn’t take it, someone else’s kid woul have.
My pride and integrity are worth a four months salary, apparently.
I didn’t believe people when they said that you can only get a job in this country if you have connections. Sadly, it seems to be true. I’m just a nobody with nobodies for parents, so all I can get is four months of an administrative job, while watching competitions for permanent jobs going by with results known in advance.
I am qualified for a job in this place (even with my low self-esteem I can see that), but I’m never going to get it. People with degrees that have nothing to do with math get those jobs because they have someone to pull the strings.
Actually, if one were to make a Lincoln assassination joke on the model of your elevator joke, the Secret Service might feel that it was, indeed, “too soon.”
This new movie about Margaret Thatcher looks like a horrible sequel to Iron Man. I can’t figure out what the writers were thinking. I don’t remember her being a big part of the story in the comic books.
Geez Ben, and you wonder why you have a hard time finding a girlfriend? There’s no way it could be your charming demeanor could it?
There’s never a good time for an elevator joke, for crissakes. Even assuming the recent story of that woman beat near to death in an elevator never happened (and you don’t know how much I wish it didn’t) there would still not be a time and place for it. It’s a rape joke, period. It’s playing on the fears of a woman being placed in a situation that she’s uncomfortable with and that is a situation where something bad could easily happen to her.
You either would have to be entirely non-empathic, or just a complete idiot to make a joke like that and expect people to laugh.
Am Dm G C Am Dm G C Am Dm G C F G Am F G Am F G C Am F G Am
I have neither a guitar nor a keyboard on hand, what song is that, Rorschach?
This is a fairly entertaining science blog. And it has a whole series on “pee”.
Algernon will know. I’m being all secretive.
Algernon may know but I don’t and it’s going to bother me and I can’t do anything when I have nagging questions in the back of my mind!
You’re killing my productivity!! *sob*
Hm,ok. Try this one. An interesting example of a bunch of people totally missing a historical occasion. And you may find that if you strum the chords, Am Dm G C might resemble the general idea of the song…:-)
Thanks XD
The Republican party have only themselves to blame.
@ Rev
I see the cartoon in your linky features Mr Creosote as the capitalist. Link:”It is wafer thin.”
Heh, I didn’t even notice that.
I doubt that. In Britain, belief in deities is much less prevalent, and the fundamentalist cult of ignorance is much less popular, yet it’s still not easy getting a decent graduate job.
Yes, of course that’s true. But with spanking, there does seem to be some evidence that it can be, even if wholly unintentionally, damaging to a child’s psychosexual development; though this is admittedly disputed.
rorschach
I don’t read music so I put
into a google search and it gave me a “do you really mean?”
Don’t you ♥ the internets?
I still don’t know what the tune is.
Walton
Your google-fu seems weak on this. Most of the papers on the first page only refer to either, and those that refer to both seem crap (if you read the first result, that makes me shake my head a lot). I don’t think that we need to discuss that spanking is inherently bad, abuse and should be a criminal offence everywhere, but the psychosexual component seems to exist more in the minds of the adults than in those of the children.
I’d like to see real data to support that hypothesis.
Awesome. Back of my throat getting itchy, random coughing, slight tiredness.
Perfect. Have 12 people coming for dinner on Saturday night and I’m getting sick.
Benjamin, #186:
FIFY.
As for “being human,” so is everybody here, and you’re one of the very few who has a problem remembering not to make misogynist jokes, or snide comments about how feminists have no sense of humor because we aren’t laughing at jokes that treat violence against women lightly…the way the rest of society treats it.
I’m really unsurprised you take PUA tactics seriously. It’s about right for a guy who’d rather find a “cheat code” to “win pussy” than to change any personal traits that women view as red flags.
Sailor, making excuses for this whiny, petulant manchild doesn’t make you look good. It makes you look tone-deaf to sexism.
And then whinge incessantly about how he just can’t understand why no women find him appealing.
The schtick is painfully tiring and transparent.
On a slightly other topic:
the only person who has said to my face that space-aliens built the pyramids was an engineer;
the only person who has said to my face that men have one fewer ribs than women was an engineer.
(Actually students and 30+ years ago.)
Have things changed?
Chigau: One of the NYT commenters notes that Fordham University, the Catholic college that is the main focus of the article, “accepts federal funds in the form of tuition loans guaranteed by all taxpayers.” Another notes that, as a religious school, it is tax-exempt.
No one has denied his ability only his will.
Non freewill version
No one has denied his intellectual ability only his emotional ability.
Hence why TLC is the popular one! Let’s all pay attention to TLC now!
Seriously though Ben, if you want to examine TLC since you seem to think the situation is a lot like your’s and look for differences that could explain the difference in response to him it might be helpful.
You might be right. I’ll be the first to accept that I can’t really view this objectively or without preconceptions.
Fuck Mr. Ben “always changing my ‘nym so you bitches have to keep reading my self-pitying rants” Geiger. His destructive narcissism distracted me last night from what I was going to say. I was going to post about how my truck is out of commission, literally hours before I was to make the very last trip out of Vermont to my new place. Boo. I ended up spending an extra night here. Lucky for me, a friend is working an overnight and let me stay in his apartment. With, I might add, a giant tub that’s long enough to stretch out full length in! (Okay, I’m short, but that’s still pretty cool.)
I’m really hoping that starting over in a new place will allow me to get back on track. These past few months have been awful, from a personal financial perspective. Being sick for 2 weeks during January really put a big hit to my income. Bleh.
Ms. Daisy Cutter
re public funding for the university
huh.
Research team finds evidence of red ochre use by Neanderthals 200,000 years ago http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-team-evidence-red-ochre-neanderthals.html
— — — — —
Sea cucumbers could be key to preserving coral reefs (locally increasing pH values) http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-sea-cucumbers-key-coral-reefs.html
— — — — —
Everybody knows it was the Egyptians who taught the aliens about pyramids. Watch Futurama.
Chigau, regarding engineers:
I’ve noticed that engineering and programming draw a lot of conservatives/libertarians and religious fundies. Not all engineers or programmers fit into any of these categories, of course. But ISTM that there’s a sort of linear thinking required in both professions that allows for a lot of mental compartmentalization.
For the hell of it, I Googled the question “Why are so many engineers libertarians?” One of the hits was this /r/AskReddit thread. Here is what was voted as the “best” answer, and bold is my emphasis:
Another commenter claims that engineers understand “efficiency: better: “No system is 100% efficient which easily translates to more traditional conservative views of less government.”
fyai, Steven at Zingularity’s in too much pain to blog and can’t get medical leave. I don’t know what if anything we can do.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/zingularity/2012/01/31/it-just-hurts-too-much
—
Re Ben Geiger: TLC already tried to teach Ben, directly, back in October. Half this TET ended up being about Ben.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/10/15/episode-cclxi-saved/comment-page-2
Crap, I typed a colon after “efficiency” when I should have typed closing double quotation marks.
PZ, just a heads up. Piltdown Man has hijacked jemimacole’s Why I Am An Atheist thread. He is jonathangray this time around. And you know the horde, we insist on poking at every pile of shit with a stick.
Which is why they so often fail to design with a freaking human user in mind?
Yet an other example of religion being the bedrock of ethical behavior.
Which is moronic. Even in Engineering I can’t imagine they actively jettisoning important user functions and going off to lunch because it’s ‘hard work’.
Engineers really need to stop acting like authorities in everything but their own field that’s the real problem with those ilk
Not engineers period, but engineers that are morons.
:-( I’m sorry to hear that.
And *hugs* for Beatrice, Phledge, evilisgood and everyone else with work-related troubles.
Ing, #266: Well, yeah. I mean, humans are messy, irrational blobs of flesh that muck up the elegant simplicity of engineers’ designs.
Re engineers: although I’m not working as one, I got my bachelor’s in chemical engineering. My class was pretty small; maybe 20 people maximum in a given course and 100 total in the program. There were a few students in my class who were casually religious, which is to be expected here in the south, and none of them ever really brought it up at all. We all got to know each other pretty well and as far as I know, everyone at least accepted evolution. There was one guy who was my first experience with a reddit atheist; he was always showing people gross shit on 4chan and talking about Ron Paul, but nobody really took him seriously and he would actually shut up if we told him he was out of line so it wasn’t ever too bad.
Ahh, my new meds insurance company changed my generic BP med. It’s the same compound so no problem, right? It was 2x the strength, and I didn’t notice until I tried to get up from my chair.
Thank you, I’ll be here all weak.
+++++++++++++
theophontes, the dragon book and Magical Kingdom pix were adorable.
+++++++++++++
Which is more annoying, the Straw Vulcan, or the Selfish Vulcan?
Something a little on the lighter side from Manboobz: The website’s 2011 Troll of the Year. David Futrelle lists, in paraphrases, the troll’s philosophy as shared with Manboobz regulars. I will share about a dozen that people here should find especially amusing, with the outright MRA shite deleted for your reading pleasure:
For the record I am leaving him alone this time. I promise. I promise promise promise. Though I probably creep him out. Heh… even trolls have trolls.
I had an “aha!” while reading Ms. Daisy’s Reddit quote @262.
Libertarians think they way they do because they honestly think that stuff going on in the society in which they live has no effect on them.
In other words, libertarians are stupid.
I have to admit I was flabbergasted to see Pilty profess his love for William S. Burroughs. Not something I expected.
You’re right. Why do we do that?
[Redhead update]
While a good amount of progress has been made, with feeling and some small amount of muscle function returning on her left side, it is obvious that coming home at the moment isn’t a logical option (and she agrees). Further daily rehab is needed in an in-house setting for her to come home to our handicap unfriendly house. I’m looking at nursing homes with rehab that are in my insurance network. Bleah, what a pleasant task.
Any advice from the horde is welome.
[/Redhead update]
Nerd
That sounds very hopeful.
I have no advice, just a *hug*.
Eh, what? No, you’re misunderstanding him. He hates Burroughs. See this thread on my blog.
Did anyone write in to say that this is why engineers will never be physicists? Because they should.
Benjamin, I get that you intended it as self-deprecating humor, and I get that you don’t understand why it was a lead balloon, but it didn’t work for the same reasons that Ted Danson in blackface didn’t work (historical context—racism≠funny), and Prince Harry in a Nazi costume didn’t work (historical context—Nazis=Holocaust≠funny). In this case, it’s that the whole Schrodinger’s Rapist phenomenon (and associated baggage) isn’t funny.
–
More that it certainly seemed that you were going to find any and all suggestions and attempts to help completely impossible; in much the same vein as earlier attempts to suggest ways and places to meet women always were met with a general “that can’t possibly work”, and your apparent impatience that we couldn’t instantly come up with a fool-proof answer that you hadn’t heard/tried yet. It quacked a lot like a pattern, Benjamin; “Help me! But I can’t be helped! Why aren’t you helping me?”
–
I like it!
:)
–
Ichthyic:
I see a few (not a bunch) of 32 GB and 64 GB Primes on Amazon. Not sure what price point you were looking for; these are $600ish and $750ish.
It looks like TigerDirect has at least one 64 GB for $600ish.
If you need a US address, let me know. Dstarfire at hotmail and such.
“There shouldn’t be a social security system, welfare system, and other “pork”. The government should exist solely to create and enforce a minimal set of laws designed to keep society from devolving into anarchy ”
Ahh, a police state, the exact thing they fear is happening. This asshole needs to lose his job and discover the real world as it exists for most people.
IRT ‘engineers’, there are as many fields in engineering as there are in PhDs, don’t be hatin’ on engineers in general.
One thing I learned when I was using my engineering degree was that I can’t control how the people around me affect me, but I can control the people around me. I got away from that system.
I also got lucky. After being an aerospace engineer (OK, I was a turbine rotorcraft maintenance engineer) I became a sound engineer. The pay usually sucked, but the benefits were incredible … until I was old enough to need medical and retirement.
Now I do medical research programming, a bit of engineering, and social engineering to get the task accomplished. I work with light instead of sound and no one applauds at the end of the day, but everything I’ve learned in school/life gets applied.
I like that.
Nerd: *hugs* for you and the Redhead, and best wishes to her for a speedy recovery.
Nerd, I wish I could offer a suggestion, but all I can offer is best wishes for the Redhead’s continuing recovery.
Walton, re Pilty: Whoops. His long Burroughs quote in the Scofield thread made him sound like an admirer. I guess I fell into the sarchasm.
Oh my, that is going to insuuuult him!
Because it is fun?
NoR I wish I had advice, but I have sympathy? *hugs*
Rorschach, lol! I was lost there for a moment.
*gesture of aversion*
–
*hugs* for Nerd and Redhead.
–
Nerd: I offer you a chuck on the shoulder not being the huggy type.
Nerd, let me pour you a grog. I don’t know if it’ll help, but you take a load off for a few while you sort out options.
My best to the Redhead.
[Pours two. A fly lands in one. Thinks about it for a sec, and gives Nerd the untainted pint.]
Nerd – my hopes for the best, a hug if you want it, and an ear to complain to if needed. Have my email if needed? Best to the Redhead.
I did not know this word ‘sarchasm’, and yet I also don’t get it.
+++++++++++
Nerd, the facilities you require are so local and personal I have zero advice. I am glad that she has you as an advocate. Research shows that having someone who will fight for you has much better outcomes. If there is another way I can help please let me know.
The recent trials in Canada over so-called “honor killings” has ex-mormons quoting from their prophet, Brigham Young.
Quoted from a speech given by Brigham Young, Delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, March 16, 1856. Reported By: G. D. Watt.
Of course Brigham Young is also the guy that said he thought as much of adding another wife to his household as he did of buying another cow for his herd.
Still, I didn’t think he’d be that hard on his brother.
Ah shit Nerd, that sounds pretty hard. Please let us know if you need anything. Add another grog from the Island and please take care of yourself too.
FOr some reason they don’t see that a social welfare system is part of those laws. Both alternatives to having it (Peasant revolt or having to step over child corpses in the street) are lubricant for said anarchy.
Well, you know, if all those poor people were rational and logical like that guy, they would have bootstrapped themselves out of poverty. Including the kids. So they don’t deserve anything, and if they either revolt or have the inconsideration to lie around on sidewalks dying, that’s what the cops, the prison system, and Mr. Libertarian’s firearms collection are for.
Nerd, I’m going to echo a few other comments up-thread and say that The Redhead is going to benefit from having you in her corner.
The entire medical establishment is astonishingly good at not really paying attention to little things like coordinating care when many doctors are involved. The patient needs an advocate, and an intelligent one at that.
Ironically, in a life boat scenario anyone with such an attitude would rationally be the first choice to toss over board as dead weight.
It is libertarians attitudes like that and the alleged correlation to engineers that makes me wonder if some of the Dilbert scenarios and complaints laid there aren’t more due or equally due to an inability to work well with others rather than bad/stupid management.
It’s a sociopathic political philosophy. Don’t get me started on the people I used to know who actually blamed the VA Tech shooting victims for not fighting back…
Some of them, I’m sure. Especially, if we’re talking strictly about scenarios depicted in Dilbert, given what we know of Scott Adams’ character.
That said, corporate America as a whole is pretty fucked up, and a lot of companies actively reward sociopathic behavior on the part of their higher-ups.
@Ms Daisy
Of course. It is though making me question what the other side of the story is.
I’d just like to send my best wishes to the Redhead, and to Nerd too.
I usually try to avoid the pile on. Nerd, I wish I had any words of advice about Redhead’s recovery but I have none. Except this, you seem to be smart enough and caring enough to find out what needs to be done and do it. I wish you strength and I wish Redhead well.
[Redhead update]
The decision for further in-house rehab wasn’t hard. My health insurance will only pay for 28 days of “acute care rehab”, which is rehab in a hospital setting. They will pay for further rehab as “extended care rehab”, which is in a nursing home setting, and is cheaper for them. She still has the last week in acute care rehab to go, and we (the case-worker, the Redhead, and myself) are just looking ahead.
She is at the first stage of relearning to walk though. She stands on the good leg, grabs a bar with her good arm, the therapist moves her bad leg forward, and she scoots the good leg up to even with the bad leg. Repeat until tired, which isn’t very long (but getting longer). This isn’t good enough for getting around our old house.
I’ve let my fingers do the mousing and have knocked the potential list down to four candidates (found some ratings on-line). The case-worker wants a list of the top three choices to start the negotiations for transfer tomorrow. From my perspective, the one problem is that the all candidates are a ways away, making it difficult to see her every night after work, or quickly in an emergency.
[/Redhead update]
Anyone interested in some siwoti? Earnest libertarians are willing to stand up for the cause over at http://freethoughtblogs.com/physioprof/2012/01/25/selling-libertarianism/
None of them seem interested in abb3w’s argument though :-\ they are just skipping right by for the easy talking points.
Nerd,
I was absent when whatever happened to the Redhead happened, but from the sounds of things, I’m assuming a right-side stroke. I’m really sorry to hear that, but I’m glad progress is being made. One thing I’ve learned from my wife on these things (she’s an SLP at an inpatient rehab clinic) is that everybody is different. But stay strong, keep working, and trust the therapists, even when what they’re asking sounds weird. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
It is not like one looks to Barney Google and Snuffy Smith for a reflection of the human condition but WHAT THE FUCK?
I can see MRAs posting this.
I’m wondering if people have athei-dar. I got approached by a Christian while I was at Panda Express waiting for my optometrist appointment; she asked whether she could say a prayer for me. We actually had a reasonable discussion for a few minutes, she did her thing, then we went our separate ways.
Colbert’s Super PAC raised over $1 million all to make an important point.
What horrified me about the data walton linked to was how it appeared to assume a masochistic adult sexual identity = damage. Just, no.
If we’re on the subject of libertarians, it amazes me that Ron Paul has somehow managed to convince everyone – both his supporters and his critics – that he is The Libertarian Candidate™.
When one looks closely at what he stands for, he isn’t “libertarian” in anything but a very superficial sense. He supports a smaller and weaker federal government, and believes more powers should be returned to the states, but that isn’t at all the same thing as actually supporting individual rights (indeed, a reliance on the rhetoric of “states’ rights” was the classic argument of the old Southern segregationists who opposed civil rights). He supports tougher immigration controls and militarizing the border. He favours overturning Roe, and thinks that states should be able to outlaw abortion. And with his absurd “We the People Act”, he supports severely limiting the jurisdiction of the federal courts to enforce the Bill of Rights, a proposal which would be a disaster for the rights of minorities. And so on. He isn’t a libertarian; he’s an old-fashioned paleoconservative.
Yes, he looks libertarian in comparison with the rest of the Republican candidates, but that’s only because the party as a whole has moved so far in the direction of extreme authoritarianism and militarism. It’s great that he’s opposed to torture, undeclared wars and targeted killings, and I agree with him on those issues, but it’s hardly enough to make him a libertarian by any reasonable objective standard. (And even there, his foreign policy positions seem to be grounded less in actual humanitarian concerns and more in a sort of knee-jerk nationalist isolationism, along the lines of “we shouldn’t be sending our American boys to fight in foreign wars”, which is also a traditional paleoconservative position.)
I disagree with actual libertarians on plenty of issues, but one of the things that most frustrates me is the way that so many of them unthinkingly throw their support behind Paul, despite the fact that he clearly doesn’t live up to his rhetoric. I don’t think a Paul administration would be good for individual liberties, on any measure. He might scrap the War on Drugs and adopt a less aggressive foreign policy, but any benefit from these measures would be outweighed by the rolling-back of federal civil rights protections; and his administration would probably be an active setback for women’s reproductive rights, immigrants’ rights, and the rights of minorities in general. By contrast, the actual libertarian candidate in the race, Gary Johnson, is a marginal figure who’s been largely ignored even by libertarians.
I certainly wouldn’t make such a claim, and never have. I apologize if it seemed that I was doing so.
Walton, Ron Paul DOES support the rhetoric of those libertarians.
Seriously, Walton after hearing almost every one basically say “I couldn’t care less” when problems with the philosophy is pointed out and their disdain for minorities and women, Ron Paul is their freaking candidate.
kristinc @ #312: Yeah, that really unsettled me as well. Adult people consensually fucking in ways they find fulfilling and enjoyable is not my definition of “damage”.
Thoroughly thread bankrupt. Home computer is cranky, so I am pharyngulating from work. In other news, working for an institute of higher education has its perks in largely unrestricted internet.
Spanking: I was spanked as a kid. The ‘rents used a wooden spoon, on the grounds that children should not associate their parents’ hands with both punishment and love. Not sure how that works (the implement of punishment was held in the hands, after all), but whatever. Spankings were uncommon. The usual pattern was this:
1. Kid misbehaves.
2. Parent notices, calls attention to misbehavior.
3. Kid is sent to go get the wooden spoon.
4. Parent takes wooden spoon, scolds.
5. Kid is told to put the wooden spoon in sink and desist from misbehavior.
Basically, my siblings and I were punished by threats of spankings, rather than actual spankings.
I’m torn about the benefit of this as compared to actual spankings. On the one hand, I do not approve of spanking as a tool of discipline and, should I ever have children, I will not spank. I also am highly skeptical of the value of threats of violence. Should parents be feared by their children? On the other, what is worse – threatening violence or carrying it out? How does this equation change when applied to a parent/child relationship, with the inherent power, size, and strength differentials?
I’m also very conflicted about the one time I remember actually being spanked. I was caught doing something that had a serious potential of causing me major bodily harm or even killing me. I had been explicitly forbidden from doing what I was doing because of this very danger, and the danger had been explained to me in a manner that was understandable to someone my age. I did it anyway (don’t ask me why, but I’m guessing boredom and not giving a shit). On the one hand, are rules like “don’t hit your children” open to suspension in extreme circumstances? If so, what counts as an extreme circumstance? Does playing with kindling very near a lit fire count? Running into the road without looking for traffic? Swimming in an unsafe manner? Playing with the mechanism securing an overhead hundred-pound weight (this what I was doing)? On the other hand, I think one reason why I remember that spanking (it was 3 or 4 swats) was the fact that my parents were so obviously furious with me in a way I had never really seen before. If they had merely scolded me, their fury so evident, would the lesson have stuck? If they had scolded me, and the lesson not stuck, what then? More scoldings? An eventual upgrade to spanking? How much leeway should be given based on the child’s personality? If the child is, say, mentally behind and the parents are skeptical of their ability to understand a verbal explanation or scolding, but the child is physically large and quick enough to evade methods of physical containment, is spanking then justified? I’m troubled by the implications of my own question, but I also recognize that children are not formed from cookie-cutters.
Bah. This verged into teal deer.
____
Sending good thoughts to the Redhead, and to you, Nerd. I wish you both the best.
____
I saw a study once (and now I can’t remember where that examined self-described revolutionaries and plotted them by academic major in college (or profession if they hand’t gone to college). People came from all sorts of majors and backgrounds, but there were some trends.
Right-wing revolutionaries are more likely to be engineers, mathematicians or lawyers. Left-wing revolutionaries are more likely to be artists or otherwise people who studied the humanities or social sciences. Non-engineering physical scientists were pretty evenly distributed, IIRC.
The hypothesis was that since engineering, math, and the law, being based on rules and laws, encourages a rule- and law-based mentality (and attracts people who already have this mentality). Conservativism features rules that must be obeyed and a tendency for black-and-white thinking.
The humanities, arts, and social sciences, by contrast, are people-based. A great deal of attention is paid to respecting different viewpoints, and in many cases, it is emphasized that there is no one right answer. Liberalism, especially socialism and communism are based on the group, the greater good, and sharing of resources evenly.
While of course this sort of analysis is simplistic – it utterly ignores the authoritarian/libertarian axis, for example – i do think there is a certain amount of truth to be found in it.
Well, that’s the problem with modern American libertarianism right there. For some of them, the adage that “libertarians are just conservatives who want to smoke pot” isn’t so far off the mark.
The trouble is that the libertarian movement, in practice, is mainly run by and for affluent middle- and upper-class white people, and so those are the people whose interests it effectively serves. When the average white male corporate-funded mainstream libertarian talks about “freedom”, it’s mostly a prelude to an endless whine about taxes or regulation of business. They rarely appear to give a damn about the forms of state violence that hurt minorities and the poor, even though in principle they ought to be opposing those things.
Libertarians could be talking about the ways in which state coercion can hurt the poor and marginalized – like the atrocity of institutional racism in the criminal justice system, say, or the harm caused by restrictive immigration laws. But although some libertarians do talk about these issues (Radley Balko, for instance), the libertarian movement as a whole tends to ignore that stuff, and focuses on the issues where the money is and which play to their wealthy base. Which is why I don’t call myself a libertarian any more. (That, and the infestation of AGW-denialism and extreme anti-environmentalism in the libertarian movement, something which is seriously dangerous in the present circumstances.)
Walton: I know you didn’t mean to make that claim. Enough people do, though (and the assumption is pretty blatant in the links I clicked through to skim), and it messes enough with the heads of otherwise healthy adult masochists, that you might want to be more careful to avoid appearing to imply it.
Happiestsadist: as well as the very basic correlation-causation problem. If it’s present in adulthood, it must have been caused in childhood, otherwise it wouldn’t be there, and it’s bad, therefore something that happened in childhood was damaging.
Lest there be any doubt about this question, I do not think that an interest in sexual masochism of the consensual adult kind is a sign of “damage”. I have never made that claim, and I don’t think it’s true. That isn’t at all what I was arguing.
===
Esteleth: Spanking is never justified. Restraining a child to prevent them hurting themselves or others is obviously justified, but there’s a categorical difference between that and deliberately inflicting pain on the child in order to punish them.
Walton, I agree. Like I said, I do not approve of spanking, and, should I ever have children, I will not spank.
The teal deer blathering that I posted @318 was mostly just me hammering my keyboard in a rather disjointed fashion. I do wonder, though, about the situations (and they do exist) where restraining the child is beyond the capabilities of the parents. I am not (not, not, not) advocating spanking as a solution there, I know too well how counterproductive that in fact can be (google “Judge Rotenberg Center” some time if you want to be horrified). I just wonder what the appropriate thing is.
#318: That’s what thread bankruptcy looks like??
Meh. Sorry for being needlessly aggressive. I feel stressed and anxious (even more so than my usual state of mind), and I can’t even work out why. I’m guessing there’s something vitally important I should have done that I’ve forgotten to do, or something along those lines.
@323 Bah.
Nth’ing support for Nerd and the Redhead.
For what it’s worth, I’m a tough aggressive sort, I was very obedient, and my parents never even mentioned physical punishment. They still reduced me to quivering terror and eventual PTSD.
Honestly I wonder how much parents end up punishing and dominating disobedient kids because the kids don’t trust them.
There’s a relevant passage from “Animals Make Us Human” about negative conditioning w.r.t. punishment (it’s easy, thoughtless, and creates resistance) but I dont’ have it here.
That’s a very good point, pteryxx.
Quite honestly, I think that one of the worst things that a parent can do is blatantly lie to a child. If the child is told, “If you do your homework, I’ll buy you ice cream,” and then there is no ice cream, the child – especially if this is a pattern – will stop believing what the parent says. Likewise, if the child is told, “If you don’t clean your room, you’ll be grounded for a week,” but the promised punishment doesn’t appear, then the parent is revealed as a pushover.
Overzealous punishments create fear. Uneven application of punishment creates fear and mistrust. It is a nasty, nasty cycle.
Utterly and completely devoid of time and energy to catch up even remotely, but I have question for the learned audience:
Does anyone know if there’s any connection between the Odyssey’s Idomeneus and his foolish promise that forced him to sacrifice his son, and the Bible’s Jephthah who likewise had to give up his daughter? (And isn’t the story of Agamemnon and his daughter the same as well?)
I wasn’t going to mention this, but since Pteryxx did, I’ll pile on…
I wasn’t ever hit. My mother once proudly commented that all it ever took was the mere threat of her being angry with me to get me to behave. This was also, to her, proof that I couldn’t be Aspie, since it proved I had enough empathy to know I’d done wrong and be sorry for it.
My response was that, no, it wasn’t empathy – it was sheer terror. My father had left when I was 6; they divorced, but no one told me what was going on. From then on, I was dead terrified that if I did anything at all to upset my mom, she’d leave too. I couldn’t tell the difference between “momentary angry” and “packing my bags and leaving you angry.”
This obviously didn’t go over well. But, yeah, punishment doesn’t need to be physical to be abusive.
I still think spanking (or even threats of spanking) are to be avoided in any situation possible. Where that line is, I don’t know, and that “I don’t know” is part of the reason I never want children.
Nerd, my sympathy for you and the Redhead.
(Seems like you’ll be doing extra travelling for a while.)
Good evening
Re: spanking
Well, spanking was considered the punishment of choice when I was a kid, too. I don’t think is scarred me, but i remember vividly the emotion I associated with it:
Red hot firey rage and fury.
My parents didn’t hit that hard that I would have cried from the pain. I was a tough kid and didn’t cry much over pain (I wouldn’t have gotten anything done if I had. Too many bruised knees, cut fingers, etc.).
But the rage about this violation of my bodily autonomy, and the betrayal of trust, that hurt.
I think there are two things to distinguish:
Restraining a child in order to prevent damage is much different than spanking as a punishment.
Yep, threats without consequences make you a ridiculous joke.
Side-tip: Don’t try to rear your child using punishment and rewards. The reward for doing your homework is getting your homework done.
Me either. My mom, FWIW, always said the same thing. She used emotions well. Even the slight look of disappointment was enough to mortify me and fill me with self loathing. I also had the added fear of “momentary angry” vs “batshit crazy (be scared but don’t *look* scared)” and “momentary angry (justified)” vs “momentary angry (it’s not really my fault but it’s easier if I take it and we never talk about it after)” and then just “oh shit these people will kill each other.”
It isn’t surprising, then, that she was able to wield rejection and withholding well, as tools.
Argh, forgotten
Nerd
Best wishes for the Redhead. I hope you fine a good location.
Esteleth @ #327:And with that, you summed up exactly why I’m a fucked up shell of a person now. Whee.
At least I have dark-chocolate lavender biscotti. Even if I need to dunk it in soy milk because of the whole “cracked-tooth/likely concussion” debacle on Sunday.
Also, to Nerd: while I can’t offer any advice, I do wish you both strength and luck. *passes another mug of internet ale*
When my younger kid was small I even swore off certain kinds of praise that often seem to function as rewards. More as an intriguing experiment than because I thought it was a live or die parenting issue, but the effect was fascinating: when I forbade myself to say “good job!” over and over again I ended up saying things that actually meant stuff, like “it is so good to have an extra pair of hands to help with this” or “you picked up super fast! We even have time for an extra story!”
I fell completely out of the habit of reward-praise without even realizing it, and now hearing parents say “good job! good job! good job!” to their small children over and over and over sounds …. weird. Kind of almost lobotomizingly weird.
More sympathies for Nerd and well-wishes for Redhead.
On a couple of other topics:
Yes, the lunchbox discussion was as described. A letter-perfect yes, but game, and without any of the MRA/PUA baggage. Given that Ben was stuck here on something so simple as making a packed lunch, his chances of learning anything more complex and challenging were basically zip.
Not that I entirely endorse transactional analysis, but the pattern-spotting part of it is very useful.
And on spanking – I really don’t think an occasional swat in extreme circumstances (eg running out onto the road) is likely to hurt a child noticeably. It may not be the best option, but we all fall short of perfection at times. At least the lesson there isn’t “violence is always the answer”, because it’s so rare. It’s more like “people can lash out in extreme situations”, which has the merit of being true. Especially if you can discuss it later.
The problem arises when it’s routine or extreme or both. A lot of truly terrifying child abuse is hidden under the mantle of parental discipline – the Pearl’s “Train Up a Child” book is a very influential case in point. Pure evil. And it passes under the radar a lot, because people think it’s merely about the same mild spanking that they were brought up with.
Well, I think I can look comfortably back and see that at least that wasn’t a problem: Whatever I did, my parents’ love for me was never in question.
Although my mum has always been a manipulative asshole sometimes. Queen of bad conscience she was, but as long as she was healthy she never tried to pull the crap she’s been pulling the last year.
Which is the hope I have for my own attempt at parenting:
I try to give them the safety and security that I will never leave them (well, sure, accidents happen, but they’re not something you want to prepare your kids for) and that I will always love them. I hope that will be more important than the mistakes I’ll obviously make.
I don’t think that what you are talking about is intended to cause pain as much as command attention. When my daughter was very young a slap on the hand was much more effective at getting her attention than raising my voice.
Nerd, is it possible you could spend the night there occasionally? I want to fix this and I can’t.
+++++++++++++++++++++
I can fix a lot of things, and as Red Green advises, I’m handy to have around.
++++++++++++++++++++
I say this in the most optimal way; I’m glad my parents are dead. I loved them, they loved me, but boy were they fucked up. It’s so difficult to see your parents as people, they did the best they could. at some point one has to take responsibility for ones self.
This is a long way around of saying ‘swatting a toddler’ is completely different from a beating. and I don’t care what the implement was, just fucking don’t do it.
(Wow, where did that come from!? Sometimes I don’t know what I’m going to say until I type it.)
Amusing UK news story: someone called (until today), Sir Fred Goodwin (of whom few not-Brits will ever have heard, but he’s quite the hate figure here) has had his knighthood revoked, and is now plain Mr. Fred Goodwin again. Whether he has to go to Buckingham Palace and go through the knighting ceremony backwards, I couldn’t say – Walton will know. He was CEO of the Royal Bank of Scotland (there was nothing royal about it AFAIK) when it went belly-up in 2008 and had to be effectively nationalised. (It’s currently 80%+ publicly owned and this event follows on the heels of a recent brouhaha about a bonus of just under £1 which was to be awarded to its current CEO, despite a huge plunge in its share price over the last year – under pressure, said CEO nobly declined it, and will have to get by somehow on his £1.25 million salary.) Fred was knighted “for services to banking”, and is being deknighted for “bringing the honours system into disrepute”. Quite how you can bring something so thoroughly disreputable into disrepute, I don’t know. They didn’t de-lord Jeffrey Archer when he was convicted of perjury and imprisoned, so as Goodwin hasn’t actually been convicted of any offence, it seems rather unfair by comparison, though I can’t say I’m shedding any tears for him.
Hmm.
What if a child is hurt by, say, having to forcibly pick them up off the floor? (“Can you brush your teeth please?” “I’m too tired.” “You weren’t five minutes ago when you were jumping around on the sofa.” *pickup* “Owww!”)
What if a child hurts themselves while you’re restraining them; blocking a kick to the shins, for example? (“Owww, you hurt me!” “No, you hurt yourself.”)
What if a child shows emotional distress as a result of a reasonable request? (“Can you put your shoes on please, we’re late and you have to be at school in seven minutes.” “I told you never to say that again!” *kidrage*)
[I could go on. Maybe kid #1 is just difficult. The others are better.]
This shit is hard. It’s not helped by absolutist comments from non-participants sitting in the peanut gallery. :-/
Oh, and one more addition to the best wishes for the Redhead and her Nerd.
I guess I can’t claim to be thread bankrupt, since I’m going to reply to specifics; I’m just many payments in arrears…
Nerd, add mine to the pile of hugs for you and the Redhead!
***
Sarchasm is the official word of the day!
***
Re spanking: I confess I didn’t read Walton’s links (and I agree strongly with the observations that adult interest in sexual pain play ≠ damage), but I’m not so sure about this…
I was spanked as a child, both at home and at school (the latter was rarely carried out, but well known to be a possibility). It is, of course, purely anecdotal, but I can recall daydreaming about being spanked by female elementary school teachers in a way that was, in retrospect, clearly erotic, even though I was too young at the time to have any real notion of what sex even was, or any conscious way of identifying erotic thoughts. I think by the time a child is physically large enough to be plausibly spanked, s/he already has some sense of the buttocks as private parts, and may well have some proto-sexual awareness regarding them. It doesn’t strike me as farfetched to suggest that spanking can be a confusingly mixed stimulus for children, even without adults projecting their own sexuality onto the situation.
But, of course, I also agree that there’s no need to go there in order to condemn corporal punishment of children: You had me at hitting kids.
I also agree with the several people who’ve commented that threats and yelling aren’t much better than actual hitting. We never hit our daughter and rarely raised our voices (and even then, only in alarm, rather than in anger)… and she turned out quite nicely. Of course, she also didn’t test our resolve on these matters: I can’t recall any transgressions that would’ve merited a spanking even if we had believed in them. How the arrow of causality figures into these facts is left as an exercise for the student. ;^)
***
Heh. Not a parental situation, but I recall a high-school math teacher who responded to every one of our requests for extra credit with “virtue is its own reward.”
Dog, how we hated her for that! ;^)
So by not doing punishment/reward you mean to raise by clearly showing the results of actions are consequences to the actions rather than external actions of authority figures?
AFAIK, it would require an Act of Parliament to deprive someone of a peerage. In medieval times, a peer who was convicted of high treason usually lost his peerage (just before being executed) by an Act of Attainder, but obviously this does not happen in modern times. The last time an Act of Parliament was used to deprive someone of a peerage was the Titles Deprivation Act of 1917, by which those British peers fighting for the German side in WWI (most of whom were Hanoverian relatives of the Royal Family) forfeited their British titles.
By contrast, most orders of knighthood and other decorations can be removed at the will of the Sovereign (acting on the advice of the Honours Forfeiture Committee) where retention of the appointment or award would bring the honours system into disrepute. See this written parliamentary answer from 2009. The Committee has no power over peerages, however.
Afaik I received precisely one parental swat, ever (my mother, on the occasion of grabbing me back from running straight into traffic). As far as I can remember, she said – when she could speak again from the heart-stopping shock – that it was so I wouldn’t forget. I suppose it’s possible that I do remember precisely because it only ever happened that once, and under the circumstances I think it was perfectly OK for her to have one split second of reaction like that anyway.
I very much agree that a punishment-based system is unutterably fucked up. People like the Pearls make me wish I could shut their mouths permanently by any means necessary; I don’t mean I’d vote for the death penalty, but I wish I could stop them from spewing their poison and getting children tortured and killed.
.
.
.
.
Totally separate thing: does anyone out there by any remote chance have a pdf (or whatever file format) of I Got Rhythm – just piano chords for a jazz standard accompaniment, so that a melody line instrument (clarinet) can play the head and then improvise over the top? Because the one sonspawn had, and which he needs for his audition on Sunday, has gone missing … and nobody can remember what book it came from (it was just a single sheet of photocopied A4). I know it’s a long shot, but the horde is nothing if not multifaceted, multitalented and multidisciplinary so it’s always worth asking … anyway, just in case, any and all pdfs (or whatever file format) gratefully received at entrenous (at symbol thingy) aporias (little dot-like dot) net. Many thanks if anyone can help!
And now for a dose of culture… look at this!
http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/21-amazing-examples-of-shadow-art
I love the woman made out of numbers at #6. And there’s something for the ratty-lovers at #15.
I am fucking pissed off at the Susan G Komen for the Cure is stopping it’s partnership with Planned Parenthood. Can’t mainstream organization stand up to the fucking wingnuts?
A simple one like this, opposable thumbs?
http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/igotrhyt.htm
Or maybe this? http://www.piano-play-it.com/I-got-rhythm.html
with link to this: http://www.piano-play-it.com/support-files/i-got-rhythm-four-voices.pdf
Nerd, all the best to you and the Redhead. Sounds like a trying time. {Hugses}
Yeah, the peerage removal act showed just how well the Victorian idea of all nations being ruled by one family fit in during an age of nationalism.
Walton, now tell of all of the British royals who were Nazis and Nazi sympathizers.
No, apparently not.
I wonder how Pilty would feel about Kurt Weill via William S Burroughs.
@changeable moniker:
I know you weren’t really asking *me*, so this is just thoughts… but I think it has to depend on the kid. Not that I have any experience past my own; and I was a damned bombproof kid – I didn’t have tantrums, I didn’t disobey or try to manipulate my parents (didn’t even realize that was an *option* until some TET or other this past year) so obviously whatever worked on me, isn’t going to work the same way on a kid who DOES pull those kinds of tricks. Because kids are also people, just ignorant, curious, impulsive ones. Damned if I know how to counter-manipulate a neurotypical; but the few times I have worked with kids, they have absolutely LOVED me and been nice to me, and I’ve been told it’s because I talk to them as equals. *spreads hands*
Most of what I’m learning comes from animal training and Temple Grandin. Right now I’m reminded of what she says about genetically high-strung horses versus calm ones: a trainer can scare a horse to teach it, and a calm horse will habituate to the scaring, while a high-strung horse will get more and more afraid, and a *traumatized* horse may go berserk or turn mean and fight back. But that depends on the horse, not the technique.
Oh, I wasn’t saying that this was a good thing. (WWI was a horrible atrocity by any sane person’s definition, and I strongly oppose nationalism and aggressive war in all circumstances, as you know.) Just explaining the legal situation.
The reason for the Act was that the former ruling houses of Hanover and of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha were both directly descended in the male line from British royalty, and held British peerages. (The House of Hanover was descended from Queen Victoria’s uncle Prince Ernest Augustus, and that of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha from her consort Prince Albert through her second son Prince Alfred.) So there were several people who held both British and German royal titles at the outset of WWI (hence the 1917 Act).
(Another interesting genealogical fact: Queen Victoria’s eldest child, Victoria, Princess Royal, married Frederick III of Germany, and was thus the mother of the infamous Kaiser Wilhelm. If Britain had had equal primogeniture instead of male-preference primogeniture, the Princess Royal, rather than her younger brother Edward, would presumably have inherited the British throne on Queen Victoria’s death. Since Princess Victoria died a few months after her mother, the throne would then have passed to Wilhelm, who would have been simultaneously King of Great Britain and Emperor of Germany. I guess this could probably make an interesting plot for an alternate-history novel.)
Indeed, there were some. For instance: one of Queen Victoria’s and Prince Albert’s grandchildren, Charles Edward (Karl Edouard), who inherited Prince Albert’s throne as Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, was one of those who forfeited his British titles as a result of the 1917 Act, by virtue of having fought for Germany in WWI. In 1918, with the abolition of the German subnational monarchies and the creation of the Weimar Republic, he was also forced to abdicate his ducal throne. He subsequently joined the Nazi Party, and reportedly tried to negotiate a pact between Britain and Nazi Germany before the outbreak of WWII. After the war, he was fined heavily by a denazification court, and lived the rest of his life in seclusion.
(Not that any of the above had anything more than a tangential relation to the conversation. I just have a geeky interest in the history and genealogy of royalty. Maybe I should have taken up collecting Pokémon cards instead.)
Best of wishes to the Redhead household.
Yeah, I wish that I donated to them, so I could stop.
This cracked article is not something I expected to see there. It’s a very pleasant surprise. (P.S. Don’t read the comments unless you want little pieces of brain and skull on your walls.)
changeable moniker: Praxis is is different kettle of corn entirely, innit. We have a five year old that tests our resolve energetically. She will one day defeat us…I just hope by then she has some sense of her own.
Hugs, Nerd. I’m glad you are there for Redhead.
Dang, it’s 7:30 pm at the end of January here in Chiwaukee, and it’s still 50 degrees out. One weird winter so far. I still have the snow thrower at ready though.
Thanks for all the well wishes and grog. I think we’ve identified our first choice, but we’re still working on numbers two and three. So far, since I’ve been totally in my insurance’s network, my co-pays have been minimal, and both of us hope to keep it that way.
A toast to the patient women and men who carry out the various forms of therapy on stroke patients. I’m seeing the fruits of your labor with the Redhead. Thank-you! Thank-you! Thank-you!
Kristinc:
A lot of that research seems to be either chronologically dated or, if you will, ideologically dated (e.g., based entirely in Freud). I wonder if current research in child and/or sexual development is freer of kink-shaming?
Bill D.: Children, generally speaking, have sexual feelings and impulses; even small children masturbate. (This does not make it okay for adults to perform sexual acts with them, of course.) So, yes, it’s conceivable that being spanked can create erotic associations with spanking for them.
And, unfortunately, the history of corporal punishment in schools indicates that punishers not infrequently indulge their libidos as well as their physical aggression. When you read the Pearls or James Dobson on spanking, the subtext leaps off the page at you. Or at least it does if you’re not a right-wing authoritarian with a fucked-up relationship toward sexuality.
Regarding Wrong Paul and libertarianism: Walton, I have to agree with Ing. Even libertarians who lean more to the left, such as Corey Robin, seem to have a blind spot when it comes to how women, people of color, and sexual/gender minorities will fare under strong local law and weak federal law. And Robin has no excuse for this oversight, as his theory of “democratic feudalism” states that wingnuts wish to weaken federalism for just this reason.
Richard Austin: I wish people would not correlate ASDs with lack of empathy. The spectrum doesn’t necessarily make you less empathetic, but it impairs your ability to demonstrate empathy and to fake it for social purposes. IME some of the least empathetic people I’ve ever met have been extremely socially smooth.
I’ll repeat what I said at Greg Laden’s: I’ve never been a fan of the Komen Foundation, due to its promotion of what Gayle Sulik calls “breast cancer culture,” with its infantilization of women, its simplistic feel-good messages, and its glossing over any discussion of environmental carcinogens that corporate donors might find uncomfortable. Their dumping Planned Parenthood, sadly, validates my distrust.
As for “sarchasm,” I can’t claim credit for that coinage.
Ok this Susan G Koman for the Cure bullshit has me torn as fuck.
They do good work. They help women.
And now that they’ve caved into pressure they’ll still help women, but in a diminished way, in more ways that just the money they raise. I understand the feeling of wanting to apply the counter pressure to the anti-choice assholes pressure, but I also understand that despite that this obvious lapse in guts to stand up to them they still have a goal of helping women.
It really fucking pisses me off because it’s forcing people to make a choice in not supporting a group that ultimately will still help women’s health issues. They’ll just now also be a willing participant in demonizing a very important part of women’s health issues.
Mother fucking fuck. FUCK
In honor of Opportunity starting it’s ninth Earth year on Mars, picture of Sojourner, Spirit/Opportunity, and Curiosity (in transit, about six months from landing) showing the increase in size of the rovers over the years.
That’s more-or-less what I was trying to say, albeit clumsily. (My brain is not working well today.) But I’ll drop the subject for now.
====
I want a diet soda. *whines*
“Wee, not so wee, and frikkin HUGE!”
I noticed that it was all dated too and wondered, can there really be no more recent material than this. Maybe there is, and maybe it’s less shamey, that would be nice.
Based entirely on completely unscientific anecdote-sharing, I wonder if it’s simply more likely that childhood spankings (and the attendant feelings) feature more prominently in the memories of kinksters because as children they were, well, budding kinksters.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/424318_3111821242147_1462869476_33059806_38654807_n.jpg
Indeed. There are also plenty of adults who have an interest in adult consensual spanking and who were never spanked as children. I know this is only anecdotal, and I’m not aware of any up-to-date empirical research on the subject, but I’m inclined to doubt that there’s any particular relationship between childhood experience and the development of that particular interest. I certainly wasn’t asserting that such a relationship exists.
(Admittedly I didn’t make my argument very clear, and should have explained myself better.)
Kristin:
Could there be a genetic component, I wonder?
On the subject of lying to children with threats of punishment that are never carried out, there’s nothing quite so useless, or so productive of a lack of trust in a parent, than very outrageously, blatently implausible, over-the-top lies.
For instance, a perenniel threat to one of my sisters was that as punishment for (fill in trivial misdeed), she was going to come home from school and she’d find the horse dead in the pasture. Really? Having spent much good money (that we could ill afford in the first place) on a horse, its veterinary bills and its upkeep, is it likely that Parent would actually shoot the horse, and thereby recoup none of that money? No. Now, just as good from Sister’s viewpoint (slave of The Beast as she was) would have been a threat that she’d come home from school to find the horse’s new owner loading him into a trailer. But, no, by going for the “kill”, Parent threw away any chance that the threat would be carried out, given everything we knew about hir personality.
After a few thousand rounds of this (tailored to the individual, of course), is it any wonder that none of us trust or believe Parent? I think not.
–
Hours of top-of-the-voice shrieked ranting, wherein everything you ever did (or are presumed to have done) is dragged out and raked over afresh, don’t tend to inspire feelings of affection, either.
–
(Neither does constant shaming and belittlement.)
–
(I believe that I would have preferred to have more spankings, instead.)
–
Rev 369: Could you post another version of that pic that is big enough to decipher?
Ms. Daisy Cutter:
Oh, I absolutely agree, and didn’t mean to undersell this aspect. As a culture, I suspect we vastly underestimate — and probably undervalue — the sexual nature of children, adolescents, and teens. Of course, no such comment can be made without instantly adding…
…with which all decent people must agree. I should add that I didn’t mean to suggest that adults who administer corporal punishment necessarily have anything sexual in their minds (even subconsciously… though your point about the Pearls and Dobson is well taken). But even if the adults’ motives are “pure” (seriously, how “pure” can you be if you’re hitting a child, but…), this…
… can still be the outcome.
kristinc:
Mebbe so, but I’m not sure whether my own previously shared completely unscientific anecdote supports the hypothesis. My adult self is, at best, only theoretically kink-curious, with slightly kink-leaning tastes in erotica, and even that came relatively late in my adult sexual development: I could hardly call myself a “kinkster,” and I think it’d be a stretch to attribute my childish proto-erotic response to spanking to a budding kinky orientation.
What I do quite seriously worry about is that spanked children will come to associate sexual feelings — for which they may not yet even have words or coherent concepts — with admonition and disapproval; that can’t possibly be the basis for healthy, sex-positive development. Kids are going to encounter enough reasons in our fucked up culture to feel guilty about their sexuality; we should probably avoid starting them off that way in early childhood, eh?
Sorry rey that’s from failbook. That’s all i’ve got.
Walton:
Yep. And I know of at least a couple whose completely non-corporal discipline (being lectured and time-out on a special stool, respectively) involved those childish sexual feelings.
Daisy Cutter:
The most fascinating informal hypothesis I ever heard was that maybe it’s rooted in the same genetic component as substance abuse issues. Not that it’s destructive like substance abuse, obviously, but that the drive to mind-altering activities could be a common root. I doubt we’ll know much about it being genetic until people stop being shamed out of admitting it, though.
Bill D: Yes of course that’s not the only reason for remembering spanking or even remembering being aroused by it; I was thinking in terms of group data.
Agreed. That’s no good at all.
Annnnnnnnd we just found lice on the other kid, the one we thought was uninfested. FML. Starting the third sanitation process.
Fun with recursion!
The project we’re doing for Operating Systems (quantifying the effects of threads on processing speed) is fairly straightforward: given an input list of N numbers, output the corresponding Fibonacci numbers. For those that don’t remember:
Fibonacci(0) = 0
Fibonacci(1) = 1
Fibonacci(n), n > 1 = Fibonacci(n-1) + Fibonacci(n-2)
This is fairly easy to implement iteratively. So, that’s how I did it. Net result: For input values ranging from 1 to 92*, I was able to process a million input numbers in about half a second. That’s not enough to do analysis on; the actual processing time gets overwhelmed by the setup and teardown, plus the overhead of timing.
So I reimplemented the function in a recursive style, hoping it would be slower.
It was.
For a test run, I created a smaller data set of only 10,000 input numbers. So, I started the program running.
And I waited.
And waited.
And waited.
Fifteen minutes later, I killed the process because the log file was approaching 2GB in size.
Eventually I realized something. This implementation does no memoization, so every time Fibonacci(n) is computed, it has to recompute Fibonacci(n-1) and Fibonacci(n-2). When Fibonacci(n-1) is computed, it has to recompute Fibonacci(n-2) and Fibonacci(n-3).
As you can see, Fibonacci(n-2) gets recomputed twice. Each of those computations recomputes Fibonacci(n-3), plus the computation stemming from Fibonacci(n-1), for a total of three. The two computations of Fibonacci(n-2) and the three computations of Fibonacci(n-3) each recompute Fibonacci(n-4), for a total of five. Fibonacci(n-5) gets recomputed eight times, Fibonacci(n-6) gets recomputed thirteen times, and so on.
In other words, Fibonacci(n-x) gets recomputed Fibonacci(x + 1) times. Keep in mind that Fibonacci(92) is 12,200,160,415,121,876,738. So, when I tried to compute Fibonacci(92), it would have computed Fibonacci(1) twelve quintillion times.
Good thing I didn’t wait.
* I didn’t pick those numbers for the reason you think, Nat King Cole be damned. Fibonacci(92) happens to be the largest that will fit in an unsigned 64-bit integer.
Lice find a way.
I’m guessing, at least, that you don’t have the added complication of feeling sympathy for your vermin. I had to take out a mouse today from my kitchen, after my third try with the trap finally got him. Which resulted in a cute, furry little button eyed varmint with a broken neck, needing to be disposed of. So I’m feeling relieved that he’s no longer crapping behind the fridge or in the drawer I rarely open, or climbing around in the dirty dishes, but it will take a couple of days to shake the image of his little black beady eyes staring accusingly at me from that mangled body.
I really hate killing.
Re-setting up my system on an old drive (reason for which is conveniently encapsulated here). In searching Google for FtB Killfile, one of the results was this, which made me chuckle.
I’m having second thoughts about the word chuckle, it sounds like a small amount of violence.
Dr. Ian Malcolm?
Well, NuMad, I think — oh, hang on a sec, I have to move my glass of water before it spills. Something seems to be shaking it.
walton | 31 January 2012 at 2:29 pm :
Monsters like Ron Paul and Lew Rockwell have been working to transform the Libertarian movement into a Neo-Confederate movement since the 1980s. Since the Libertarian movement was already dominated by selfish white guys, it should not be surprising they succeeded.
Most Americans are not at all clear on the distinctions between the US Federal Government and its various layers of state and local governments. They don’t know a damn thing about the 14th Amendment, except, perhaps, that it had something do with slavery. When Ron Paul says he does not want the Federal Government to be able to make war, or to make drugs illegal, they cannot understand that he wants to turn these powers over to the states, because they can’t conceptualize a distinction between the Federal Government and the State Government. To them, it’s all “Government”.
Libertarians love to think they are particularly smart, and particularly well-informed, but they’re not; they’re just less able to recognize when they’ve gone wrong. And like most Americans, they too are often unable conceptualize a distinction between Federal Government and State Government. Thus Ron Paul’s neo-Confederism sounds like Libertarianism to them.
Like much of American politics, it’s not hard to understand once you recognize the widespread ignorance about how American government works.
Partial bankruptcy but here goes:
more hugs for Redhead and her Nerd.
—-
feralboy12
the mice shitting in your cupboard were trying to kill you with hantavirus, your response was self-defence.
—-
in general
if hitting children with your hand could confuse them about the same hand being both loving and cruel, will the wooden spoon confuse them about cookie dough?
—–
Heard in passing:
Hit your head on the corner of tofu and die!
agreed – and for the screwed-up authoritarian-fetish punishers like the Pearls, that’s likely feature not bug. Hence, why there are horrific scare tactics like the radio program I heard: if you don’t spank your kids and spank them hard, they will SUFFER HORRIBLY and it’ll be all your fault. Not just damnation either – they had testimonies from born-again adults about how awful their lives of drugs, sin and STDs were because their parents didn’t beat it out of them early.
It also reminds me of this lovejoyfeminism article suggesting embryo-is-a-person beliefs cause post-abortion trauma, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy:
http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/2012/01/murder-post-abortion-trauma-and-war-on.html
so the whole thing might be just one big toxic mind-fuck.
I have arrived! It is late. There is kittehs. :)
“might”??
Tonight , on my kitchen counter, the sourdough and the nuka are side by each.
I hope to still be here in the morning.
PNAS-published poll finds some Christians find their own political beliefs conflict with Jesus’ teachings
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-pnas-published-poll-christians-political-beliefs.html
At least some self-insight. “Excluded were those who fell in the middle and those who, oddly enough, thought the Fox News channel was more liberal than the CNN news channel.” What. The. Fuck? PZ, did you mess with the poll?
— — — — —
Testosterone makes us less cooperative and more egocentric, study finds http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-01-testosterone-cooperative-egocentric.html No, really? (sarcasm)
Good morning
Sally
Have some virtual bread and salt at your new place. I really hope that this will be a new kickstart for you.
re:spanking
I think that unless you’re lucky with a very tame child, or have no self-respect whatsover, or don’t care much about the child being run over by a car, you don’t make it without restricting them bodily from time to time.
But I think it’s pretty different from spanking, because the act of restriction is connected with the situation at hand.
But putting a child over your knees and spanking them has no internal connection with, say painting at the wall whatsoever.
As I said, I recall the humiliation, that they were simply doing something because they were bigger and stronger, and that I was totally powerless
punishment vs. consequences
Yes, that’s what I’m trying to do. I admit that from the child’s perspective, especially when they’re pretty small, the difference might seem to be nonexistent.
The logical consequence of cutting holes into your clothes is that you’re not allowed to have the scissors, the consequence of sticking your bubble-gum on the floor is that you’re not getting any more, the logical consequence of being downright nasty to your sister is that the two of you can’t play together and if that means that one must stay at home while the other one visits grandma, the one staying at home is you. Which actually “punishes” the victim, too, because her sister so far hasn’t found anything yet that would make the little one love her and admire her any less.
But we’re not going to learn from the consequence of falling out of the window or running into the street.
And there are elements that look like rewards, like at the end of a trip to town there’s ice-cream and watching the water fountain.
If my post appears dozens of times and clogs up your screen, I really apologise. All I’m seeing from here is that I hit “submit comment” and it just vanishes. And I really want to post to say thanks to Alethea! Dammit dammit dammit.
Been having trouble posting – no idea why :-(
.
Alethea, thank you for the links! Much appreciated. I don’t play or anything, so I’ll have to show the spawn and ask him
after school, but I don’t think that’s what he’s after (all I can tell for sure is that these look different from the one
he was using before, which we’ve managed to mislay).
The closest we’ve come so far is the pdf accessed via the “free scores” page (link removed in case it was what kept causing this post to disappear the other dozen times I tried)
which spawn says is close but not quite what he’s after so we’re going to go on looking to see if we can find a better
one. It’s to give to the unknown (adult, teacher) accompanist; spawn won’t be using a score himself because this part
of the audition is all about improvising after the head.
Many thanks for looking!
Seen it! And you’re welcome, though it was but a moment’s google.
Sounds to me like the main limit would be knowing what key you need it in.
My mother and grandmother were always very fond of draging out past trasngressions and using phrases like “I will never forgive/forget you that”, which would then be followed by silent treatments. Sometimes for days. It would slowly make me miserable, until I was ready to apologize for whatever I had or hadn’t done wrong, ever. On more memorable occasions, I was afraid they would really never talk to me any more or at least never treat me as anything more than someone you live with and have to address occasionally.
Worse: when they didn’t yell at me, just stopped talking to me. I usually had no idea what I’ve done. I don’t think I could liste to my child pleading for me to tell them what is wrong and just answer with “Nothing. Leave me alone.” and curt Yes and No for a while.
@opposablethumbs, another one, just in case (I haven’t diffed it vs. Alethea’s ones):
http://imslp.org/wiki/Girl_Crazy_(Gershwin,_George)#For_Piano_solo_.28Composer.29
(IMSLP is awesome.)
There is a reason that the JWs etc use shunning techniques, the need for approval, especially from those we love or esteem is really strong.
Ach verdammt, I’ve got a sore throat, acough and a headache, my health has really been letting me down those last weeks.
Ah, yes, the silent treatment, one of mum’s specialities, too. Only that I’ve grown out of it, because the last time she tried it was before christmas, and yes, I mean 2011.
She went “I don’t want to talk to you” and I respected that. 3 days later she called and asked, very indignatedly, how long I was planning to keep that up until I talked to her again.
There are some things I have sworn that I will never do to my children.
Yes, sometimes I will tell them that no, I don’t want to chat now, and I don’t want to sing now, because what they did made me sad or angry, but that really is for me to calm down. They don’t have to do anything to make things up again.
“Newt is like a flaming bag of poop you can vote for.”
–Stephen Colbert
Something for lovers of really big rats:
Warm and Furry, but They Pack a Toxic Punch http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/science/these-mammals-pack-a-toxic-punch.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
It turns out Capuchin monkeys also have some cool habits.
Rolling in toxic stuff? Hmm…reminds me of politics.
We’ve actually had a long talk a couple of years ago, when I explained how much this used to bother me (at that point I was responding to it similarly as you, but it still hurt sometimes). We have agreed that if one of us is mad and wants some peace and quiet it’s the best if she simply tells the other that she doesn’t want to talk at the moment. We leave each other alone for a while and there is no emotional manipulation that came with the unexplained silent treatments in my childhood.
Of course, sometimes we still end up yelling at each other, but we don’t argue nearly as much as we used to.
So, we were just discussing The Secret at work. I argued that one of its greatest faults (besides being batshit) is victim blaming. Even if it makes someone feel better, others will feel worse because they will be convinced that their troubles are their own fault. Boss said that in that case, we would have to ban all religions. One other coworker and I looked at each other over the table, she said “Great, what’s the next step?” and I “Ooookay, where’s the problem?”
*evil laugh*
B-flat major, I think (I’m going by the one he said was a possible).
But as I understand it, for many adult consensual S/M enthusiasts, arousing those and kindred feelings (shame, humiliation…) is a big part of the turn-on: “I’ve/you’ve been a naughty boy/girl” and must be punished”, etc.. Accepting that what consenting adults choose to do sexually is (except in the most extreme cases) unproblematic, it’s still of interest to ask whether childhood beatings have a causal role in pushing adult sexuality in an S/M direction – or for that matter, I guess, away from it – if only because the formation of adult sexuality is scientifically interesting in general.
This looks cool. Anatomical Cross-Sections Made with Quilled Paper by Lisa Nilsson
Thank you changeable moniker! This is great, I’ll have a couple of options for spawn to check out after school today (should be a relief after the chemistry exam … :-) ). Much appreciated!
Some people take their Star Wars fanboy/girl schtick a little too far into the weird area (hint – you thought they smelled bad on the OUTside):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/03/horse_oregon/
Beatrice
How did the boss look?
Ah, yeah, serious talks with mum. Not two concepts that go together well. So I’ll just prevent her from doing it to my kids.
She got that dear in the headlights look, but didn’t really protest much. No one’s head exploded, I’m afraid. :)
But dissing religion was fun anyway.
That’s deer, damn it! I even previewed.
But can’t a lot of these issues with not *knowing* whether people are enjoying something or not be solved if we worked more toward a culture where people would listen to each other and be more honest?
I mean, I’m not saying that’s a real possibility, but it does seem like a lot of the problem where things become abusive occurs at that point where the person abusing really doesn’t give a shit about the whole spectrum of thought and experience in the other.
Or purposefully just wants to do damage to that person.
In my case a lot of problems came/come from expecting adult-level reasoning in a small child, and projecting complex manipulative schemes onto rather simple situations.
An arcane bureaucracy of detached emotional contrivances becomes completely incapable of recognizing sincere emotion.
“Stop trying to make me feel guilty”
Or better yet:
“Oh, yeah, now I look like the bad guy. You planned it that way didn’t you?”
Inescapable except by avoidance. There is no point in having people like this near you.
Damn, Don Cornelius dead.
LOL! I can envision that in comic format soooo well.
Molly?
Hi Thread! A very bankrupt Minnie here. I’ve missed you all.
Only four days to go before Finland has a new president. The leader on the polls is a right wing business manager type of guy, while the other is a Green, openly gay guy.
Geez, I wonder which one wins?
Nevertheless, I went and voted today. Can you guess which one? :P
The black man pictured with his son on this mormon marketing page, http://mormon.org/choice/ is not mormon. He and the boy are subjects in a stock photo from Getty Images. Link to Getty photo.
LDS Church members in the USA have always been a sea of white with very brown or black faces. Now, with their “I’m a Mormon” advertising campaign, and with their revamped online presence, they are presenting themselves as having a significant number of members with dark skin.
Not true.
The PEW survey shows that about 2% of mormons were blacks in the USA up until a few years ago. Now the number in the PEW survey (last year) is 1%.
Church leaders are using advertising and websites to lie about their organization.
PEW research that focused in more detail on mormons can be read here:
http://www.pewforum.org/Christian/Mormon/mormons-in-america-executive-summary.aspx
Jesus practical jokes
I saw the funniest thing last night. I wore a crinoline petticoat under my skirt yesterday (because sometimes, a woman just wants to wear a big crinkly skirt). After I got home from work, I took it off. I tossed it aside and my cat was like OMG WTF IS THIS. She tried to get in a fight with it. I was initially worried (like, she could rip it apart), but then I realized that she was LOSING the fight. She got all tangled up in it and started mewing very pitifully. I let her out and put the crinoline away. It was fucking hilarious.
This. It never really makes sense.
I am quite grateful that my parents – even when they were in the throughs of fundiedom – never used TTUAC. *shudder* In fact, my mother has told that she has purposely burned one book in her life. She got a copy of TTUAC as a baby shower gift, read it, and set it on fire in horror. My visceral reaction to the idea of book burning aside, I struggle to determine a BETTER reaction to TTUAC.
Esteleth: you just made my day with the cat vs. crinoline story. Thank you for the mental image =)
Feralboy, #379: Last spring, after I had a pest control specialist seal up my attic, I had five instances of hibernating bats emerging into the house. In four cases, I was able to trap them live and put them outside. The fifth one, however, hid behind my sofa for a few days.
When I returned from work, it was on the living room floor and not in good shape. (My cat, who is a great mouser, was utterly baffled by this Fledermaus before her.) I wrapped the bat in a towel and took it outside, intending to set it loose. It had sunk its teeth into the towel. When I attempted to pry it loose, it died right before my eyes.
I felt terrible. I don’t know that I’d feel as terrible if it had been a mouse or a squirrel, but bats (a) eat 10x their weight in insects per night, (b) are threatened by fungus (at least little brown bats are), and (c) are just kind of neat*. I ended up putting it into a wooded area behind my house.
*I’m not a goth, but I’m goth-friendly. When I saw this article several years ago, I characterized the items therein as “Things into which to shit bats.”
Fuck off, Piero. Especially clueful, leaving that comment at Black Skeptics, too.
Good for your mother, Esteleth. The only place a not-yet-burned copy of that book belongs is in a courtroom, marked Exhibit A for the prosecution.
*runs in!*
It’s 50° outside!
Time to put on my booty shorts!
*runs out!*
Totally agreed, opposablethumbs. I think the fact that my mother has a degree in developmental education (with a specialty in special-needs children) may have helped temper the Kool-Aid and helped her recognize the horror that is TTUAC. IIRC, TTUAC advocates not allowing for special-needs status of children in disciplining them, which is just ass-backwards from everything we know about the best way to raise and care for such children.
Whatever her motive, I’m glad that horror was her response. Growing up in a home headed by someone fundie (and later fundie-lite) was hard enough without daily beatings.
Acronym overload
*whimpers*
Sorry Ing,
TTUAC = To Train Up a Child, a child-abuse manual written by Michael Pearl.
Esteleth
Crioline?
Cool.
*nomnomnom*
The only thing better than home-made chicken broth is home-made chicken broth that you just have to take out of the freezer and heat up.
I don’t believe that my mother could have handed out the Silent Treatment if her life had depended on it. She’d have exploded from the pressure of unspewed bile.
–
:) :) :) :)
–
Hi, Minnie! :)
–
Hi Cicely <3
Dunno if this is a double post, my net is unbelievably wonky tonight.
Anycase, it's worth saying hi to Cicely twice, or more =)
Hi Minnie!
—
My br ou se r ty pe s tw o ch ar ac te rs at a ti me .
It’s all very Captain Kirk.
From the annals of “at her age, I was building cardboard dolls houses”: 10-year old Clara Lazen discovered a new molecule, which her 5th grade chemistry teacher published in a paper with Clara as a co-author. (All right, Emily Rosa’s record is not broken yet, but this is all sorts of awesome.)
(Source: Skepchick.)
FFS, sorry that this is bringing stuff from another thread in but I’m really sick of people denigrating my tastes as basically signs of low sophistication and intellect and then acting like it’s SOOOOOOOOOO crazy I take a personal offense to that. Because apparently there’s no way I can enjoy Ruby Gloom and Citizen Cane.
Ing
If it helps, I love Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays because then there’s a Girl Genius update.
Somehow sounds like the people who want to tell you what you have to do in your bedroom with a consenting partner to qualify as liberated.
On other notes, it would have been a great scarf if I hadn’t cut a hole into it.
Children have died, in more than one case, as a direct consequence of their parents reading the Pearls’ child-abuse manual. Like Esteleth, I’m not in favour of burning books in general, but I’d make an exception for that one.
The other staggering thing is that it’s apparently legal in some states to send one’s “misbehaving” children to places like this.
So, to summarize the state of American society… smoking pot: illegal. Jaywalking: illegal. Being resident in the country without authorization: illegal, especially if one happens to be of the wrong skin colour. Beating one’s children with a switch: perfectly fine. Don’t you just love those priorities?
=====
I sympathize. In general, I hate it when people are snobbish about others’ tastes in music, art and literature. I wish people would learn the principle of de gustibus non est disputandum. From where I’m sitting, most of the distinction between “high” and “low” culture is basically class-based snobbery aimed at allowing Art People™ to assert their superiority over the proles. It’s fine to dislike a particular cultural genre, but asserting that it’s “inferior” or “unsophisticated” because one doesn’t personally like it is just snobbery.
Hi Chigau!
It’s just past 9 pm in Finnish time, and I’ve had a few beers to celebrate the fact that 1) this week is not a _busy_ week work wise and 2) I just heard this morning that there’s a truckload of work coming my way soon. Enough to employ not only myself but my future business partner as well, at least for the next 6-9 months.
Also, wish I had something really deep and meaningful to post, but no such luck. I should be happy to live in a society where bad things don’t happen regularly. So, all I can offer you is happy little minnies =)
Anybody read “Physics of the Future” –Michio Kaku?
Currently writing a summary of a paper written by a classmate and coauthored by the professor teaching the course.
This isn’t awkward at all.
FIFY. Even more awesome. ;)
O hai! I’m in Berlin! I don’t think I’ll be able to catch up soon! But I’ll try sometime, because of how interesting and important the subject is.
For this, it frankly matters a lot how fat is distributed; absolutes are secondary. I’ll stop here… except… *nerves wracked* …to make clear this isn’t an attempt to talk about your boobs.
That said, have you tried my chocolate diet? :-} You never responded to that part of that e-mail.
nor with my ability to see opportunities to achieve things and goals; rather, it makes anything I could possibly achieve feel about as significant/fulfilling than finishing a quest in WoW. Meaning, all this opportunity and ability I have, I can only use to reduce the nastiness of the depression. But nothing about my life now or about any possible futures really seems quite “worth living for”. For example, maintaining a 4.0 GPA is a goal of sorts, and it keeps me distracted enough for now, but once over, all I get out of this is a summa cum laude I can hang on my wall. pretty meaningless and pointless, ultimately.
“Ultimately”…
I’m prone to thinking about “ultimately”, too. But the result is always the same: “in the long run, we are all dead”. The sun is becoming brighter and brighter, so, all else being equal, Earth will turn into another Venus about 2 billion years from now, around the time when the Andromeda galaxy will collide with ours, which might perturb the solar system or who knows what. Then comes the whole red-giant business in 5 billion years, and then sometime later the material for star formation will be used up, so no more stars will form, and the old ones will go out. Then, all matter will very, very slowly keep turning into nickel (which has the most stable nuclei), and/or the protons will keep very, very slowly decaying radioactively. And then, it’s not unlikely that the Big Rip will come, and then it’s ALL OVER.
This reduces me to caring about myself and my own somewhat more immediate fun. Not that I’m having a lot of fun so far *sudden hug for Beatrice*, but… I sort of don’t take meatspace seriously enough to actually fall into the depression just above which I keep hovering. I keep being distracted by
shinyinteresting things.And so, to bed, after I’ll have spent an hour on a train, in a bus, and waiting a lot in -5 °C and constant wind. I don’t have Internet at home yet.
That’s what long FtB threads were like for me in IE8. Switch to Firefox (now at 10), and the problem will just about evaporate.
blockquote fail! (And this time I typed it right at the first attempt!) The paragraph above “‘Ultimately’…” is a quote.
And I figure I wanted to say something about what you can do with a summa cum laude degree. The question is whether you want any of those.
What do you think of “if you save just one life, you save the whole world”? Apart from the fact that it’s bullshit in the really long run, of course.
For Caine, RevBDC, and a few others (I can never remember who).
Ah, the advantages of urban living.
Again, Joe’s comment thread is a thing of beauty.
HI David
If you wanna go for a drink, go there, say hello from me.
not that “ultimately”; I was thinking more on a human, individual scale. Since I don’t really feel emotionally very passionate or inspired by any possible goal I’d like to achieve with my life, and have nothing “to look forward to” in the sense of delaying gratification, it all just amounts to a temporary distraction from remembering the pointlessness (and incidentally, I don’t think getting religious would help any, either. Religious depressives also all just kill time and distract themselves until death).
well, it’s crap, even on the human scale. to make a positive contribution means having to offset the amount of social, economic, and ecological resources one’s life consumes; and since I’m a Westerner, that’s a lot of resources that any dogoodery would have to offset. My best hope on that account is that Walton will become a super-effective super-humanitarian, because then at least I can take partial credit for turning him into a progressive :-p
this phrase made my day
Hmm.
Flight to Berlin is doable between 17th and 26th …
well, that’s the problem. i figured out that I’m seriously lacking in “wanting” things. it makes it very hard to figure out what to do with myself for the rest of my life O.o
Dog knows that hitting a child in anger is fucking appalling, but there’s something horribly twisted about deliberately planning to do so like some parents do. And to write and publish a how-to-abuse-your-child manual? That’s so evil I can’t even begin to grasp it.
*hugs to Nerd and Redhead*
There’s never a bad time for a Tim Minchin song.
From my own experience, there’s a big difference. The kind of feelings you describe occur within a safe happy sexy bubble and they can ideally be owned and viewed from a step back if necessary to make sure everything that’s going on is okay — being able to say “I really like it when I feel small and helpless, so if you do something like X that’s a huge turn on”.
There’s also the kind of shame and humiliation that makes you feel like you’re fucked-up and broken for wanting sex, or for wanting the kind of sex you do. That second kind really messes you up, not least because you feel as if you can’t talk to anyone about it (because you’re a damaged, sick freak, remember).
And I imagine having sexual feelings connected to the idea that you genuinely did something wrong and disappointed a person you love and care about would be … very confusing at the least.
My line is usually that I can’t save the world, but I can help teach the world to save itself.
Something that I’m becoming increasingly aware of is how much employment in positions above entry-level menial jobs requires connections and ass-kissing.
I got into a decent university based on my grades, test scores, and ability to pay for it. Okay, so far so good (well, the “ability to pay for it” is a serious issue). Upon graduation, I got a job at a high tier university doing some pretty high-profile work. How?
Well, I met my current boss at a conference. Okay. No real problem there. Luck, paying attention, and being willing to put myself out there.
Except that I was introduced to him by a friend of his, who worked at the school I studied at. Said friend didn’t know me particularly well, but (1) knew of me and (2) wanted to kiss the ass of my advisor. So, he introduced us and told my now boss that I was smart and a good worker.
I now have a job.
Specifically, a job that (as far as I know) was not advertised widely. So, I have a decent, well-paying job with room for advancement at a good university because some guy wanted to kiss my advisor’s ass (in return for something, of course) and thus introduced me to a friend of his who had decided he needed a new employee, but hadn’t gotten around widely advertising this fact yet.
I’m bothered by this. I’m bothered that I lucked into a job and someone that was just as qualified (or more-qualified) missed out on it due to luck.
Esteleth: That’s what scares me. Sure, I’m reasonably smart and I get good grades and I can probably write a decent thesis when the time comes. But I am shy as hell and completely incapable of schmoozing at conferences and all that other stuff that grad students are supposed to do. It doesn’t help that I look like I’m about 14, so no one takes me seriously until they know me.
I’m still not sure what I’m going to do about this. I guess I have a year or so to try to make myself less shy before I finish my M.Sc. After that, hopefully I can get into a Ph.D. program and delay entering the real world by 3 to 5 more years.
I really hate that connections and schmoozing are required for a career in science.
Hell, Ing. I stopped looking at that thread to prevent myself from saying anything that would irk you further. And here I find you.
Anyone on that thread could have taken what I wrote that way. You were hardly singled out. And to be clear, I didn’t “act like you were crazy” to take offense. I didn’t even insinuate it. I just pointed out that you gave some offense, yourself.
Be that as it may, I’m not sure how criticism of an art form is really any different from criticizing a particular piece of art. There is no piece of art that isn’t atomizable to the point that someone couldn’t find something good to say about it. I’m sure that is true of the artform as well. But so what? Would you object to a person disliking a single comic book, or simply their saying so?
Now consider this: you yourself said that 90% of comic books are irredeemably stupid. Therefore, you are only 10% less snobby than I am, and yet you feel that this is some kind of critical benchmark that renders you justifiably offended and me intolerably offensive. How fucking outraged should someone feel who likes more than 10% of the comic books that they read by your highly insensitive comment?
Nonetheless, a failing that I have is the tendency to inflame outrage in others rather than calm it. Whether your outrage was justified or not, I was an asshole to be insensitive to that. It won’t happen again.
Nutmeg, I get you. I’m on the autistic spectrum, rather antisocial, and when I’m nervous (like, when I’m in a high-stakes social setting) my symptoms really flare. Which is problematic, because people tend to be skeptical of the person who says in an artificially high voice (speaking very rapidly) that they are totally competent and intelligent, while flapping her hands around.
That luck – having a low-stakes meeting – saved me from what would have been several rounds of embarrassing myself publicly to no avail,
This just means that differences in matters of taste can’t be resolved objectively. Sometimes the goal of a discussion of matters of taste is not to resolve differences but to articulate them. This hardly violates the principle.
Jadehawk @450,
Well, you don’t lack want to figure out what to do with yourself for the rest of your life.
(If you procrastinate enough, it will become moot)
A 14-year-old homeschooled xtian girl in Maryland asks her state lawmakers to vote down equality marriage — as a birthday present to her.
Her mother is in the comments, whining about how “intolerant” everyone is of her intolerance. The mother’s name, appropriately, is Kathleen Kositzky Crank.
Tying together both conversations:
“The Change”, by Garth Brooks
That is good luck, Esteleth. I’m not on the spectrum, but I’m not exactly Ms. People Skills either, and my shyness is probably bordering on social anxiety. I do fine when I can talk about research – it’s the plain old socializing that’s the problem.
I think the trick for me will be meeting a potential future employer when I don’t realize they’re a potential future employer. Either that, or meeting them in a highly structured situation where I know the rules.
At the moment, I’m just going to concentrate on writing a kick-ass paper and hope that that carries me through.
Esteleth, you leave that damned gift horse alone. Its dentition is not your problem.
–
“Small and helpless” seems to me very different from “ashamed and humiliated”; and I think it’s significant that the language used in (at least, many stereotypical) S/M scenes is very reminiscent of a parent (or more generally, punishing adult authority figure) / “bad” child setup.
But I admit, this is outside my personal experience, both as a child (I was occasionally slapped, but always once or twice in immediate anger, never in a ritualistic way), and as an adult.
Oh yes, she’s got her knickers in a knot there. It’s really, really nasty of all those people to have pity on her daughter and to blame her.
Seriously “best birthday present ever”?
How fucked up do you have to be, even at 14. The world doesn’t revolve around you.
Esteleth
There is probably somebody in this world more qualified than you for your job.
Are you actually qualified to do it? Do you do it well?
If both answers are yes, then, congratulations, you’re doing a job you’re qualified for well.
And probably in a crioline.
From Ms. Crank’s many Thinkprogress rebuttals:
Poor kid needs a new anthropology teacher.
(somewhere in Maryland, Mattir stirs…)
Re “for all your dildo emergencies”: I snicker’d because that sex toy shop’s near Flatbush Avenue. >_>
KG:
I was going to respond to this…
…but I see that kristinc has done a better job (@454) than I ever could’ve. I will just add a couple of personal thoughts:
* My own interest in kink is not of this sort: I’m not particularly interested in erotic humiliation or power exchange. Instead, I’m interested in pain as an element of sexual pleasure, in way similar to the way I’m interested in spiciness as an element of culinary pleasure. This, BTW, makes it hard for me to find my ideal kinky erotica, since most spanking porn is about roleplaying punishment and humiliation, and very little of it is about actual lovemaking that incorporates consensual pain. </TMI>
* If the likely outcome of spanked children associating sexual feelings with guilt were just that they grew up to be happy kinksters, it wouldn’t be a problem… but as kristinc so eloquently pointed out, that doesn’t seem likely. (And, of course, there are plenty of reasons to oppose the spanking of children that have nothing to do with their sexual development.)
KG: all I have to go on is literally probably hundreds of hours of shooting the shit about this stuff, but it really seems to me that a lot of kinksters use words like “humiliated and ashamed” to mean “small and helpless” or similar.
They/we seek out consensual acts that would make us feel humiliated and ashamed if they were “real”, that is, if we were really being punished, if our sexual partners or significant others were really angry or profoundly disappointed in us. But they aren’t, so we aren’t, and I honestly don’t think many people at all seek out real literal shame. Humiliation maybe in that its root word is “humble”, but not shame. “Humiliation and shame” seems to be shorthand for “humiliation and shame roleplay” more than anything else.
As for the language — is there any more reliable way for one adult to assert superiority over another? You signal that someone is subordinate to you (and often make them viscerally feel that way) by talking to them as if they were a child, not an adult. The same language difference is present in a lot of explicitly adult-situation fantasy scenarios (cop/civilian, priest/nun, employer/servant, master/slave) because it’s such a universal means of condescension. I’m not sure the face value of it is that significant.
AE:
I didn’t look at the other thread that you and Ing are talking about, but…
Articulating differences is distinct from making others feel stupid or unworthy because of what they like. I have no idea if this is what was going on elsewhere, but I know it goes on often.
My degrees are in English literature, and as an artsy-fartsy lit-crit guy, I luuuuuuuuv arguing about matters of taste; it’s fun for me. But I have also had others “articulate” their different opinions about matters of taste to me (right here on TET) in ways that seemed to claim objective truth for one opinion, and imply that my conflicting opinion was objectively wrong (and thus, it seems inescapable to conclude, that I was somehow deficient in my faculties for holding it). At the risk of being accused of tone trolling, it seems to me that what matters here is not so much what your argument is, but how you make it.
Reaching back a few posts, am I correct in inferring from this…
…that you said all comic books are stupid? If so, I disagree with your evaluation of the relative comments: What you report Ing as having said is effectively just a particular case of Sturgeon’s Law, and leaves room for a discriminating fan to discern (and peacefully disagree about) which 10% of comic books are not stupid. But saying they’re all stupid inevitably seems to declare anyone who likes any comic book to be stupid as well (or, at least, incapable of seeing the stupidity of the form). You may actually believe that, and you have every right to say so; are you really surprised if the people you say it to are offended?
Dr. Darkheart (@426):
I’m all for booty shorts, for almost any reason, but… it’s in the 50s here (CT), too (or was, ’til the sun went down), on frickin’ February 1!, and it’s freakin’ me out. I spent most of my life, until a little more than 11 years ago, in places that were flat and had no real seasons, and I was delighted to move to a place that had actual terrain and (most of all) real winters. Quite aside from concerns about what it means in the long term, I miss my winter!
Bill D,
Careful with that word if you would be so kind.
I think I get what you are saying, (and I don’t know what to suggest, my kinks lie in diverse enough directions that I don’t run up against similar issues) but care can be taken with sentences like the above and how it frames what you like as “actual lovemaking” and what others like as not without losing the ideas you are trying to share.
I’ll bet you’re a big hit at parties. :D
Hmm, I understood it completely different:
As opposed to lovemaking that has spanking/punishment/dominance roleplay elements but no actual pain
I just need to say yes to this. I was trying to find a way to explain myself and you did it so much better.
Huh. I don’t know. I’ve never used such language. When I have done this role playing whether I’m the submission or dominant, this “you’re a bad boy/girl” is not necessary in the language. Maybe I’m just weird. I personally find it a turn off so I guess that just creates a need to find other ways to express it. It maybe reliable but its not the only way or necessary. Maybe that’s just it.
Giliell,
In that case there is a third interpretation, because I saw two and neither were yours. I inferred Bill was making a distinction between spanking and other sex acts with that actual, as opposed to saying that what he likes is actual lovemaking, but is was vague enough to raise my hackles. Now with your reading I am even more confused. Certainly had the actual moved in front of consensual I would have read it differently and in kind with your interpretation.
Gilliel,
I am qualified for my job and I think I do pretty well on the job.
I guess it’s just a nagging worry. Life ain’t fair and all that.
Today I wore jeans. No crinoline. I am, however, currently wearing an apron covered in cherries. It is very cute.
In other news, my power went out and I couldn’t find my flashlight. I did find a book of matches, and I very carefully used their light to reset my breaker box.
Dhorvath
I guess we just have to wait for bill to enlighten us. Only that I won’t on account of it being midnight here.
I’m also considering to close the window because at least here winter has arrived (-10 to -15° C)
Dhorvath:
Ahh, I see where what I said could be taken wrong; thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify: What I meant was that in most spanking porn (that I’ve been able to find, anyway) there isn’t any sex. Instead, most of what I’ve seen consists of fictional scenarios that are presented as actual punishment — a headmaster caning a schoolgirl, a husband spanking his wife, a landlady paddling her tenant — for (within the scenario) actual misdeeds. It’s supposed to be erotic for the audience (i.e., me), but it’s not presented as an erotic interaction between the characters in the scene.
In no way did I mean to be calling anyone’s idea of lovemaking non-actual, and I absolutely understand that power-exchange and consensual humiliation absolutely is lovemaking for many; it’s just that the scenes I can find don’t present their characters as if they were making love (of any sort). It’s not even as if they’re presented as people whose roleplay is lovemaking; they’re presented as if they’re really angry headmasters and chastened schoolgirls (etc.).
By contrast, I have found a tiny number of videos in which the participants clearly are making love, and consensual pain play is part (the major part) of their sexual repertoire. Sadly, those videos appear to have been one-offs even in the places I found them.
Not incredibly on topic, but wouldn’t that also invalidate the argument that monotheists are mostly atheist as well, because they reject all gods but one. It may do so validly come to think about it.
I don’t think it does. I enjoy many things that are, to use your own word, stupid. But, I admit to having engaged in some one-upmanship. I insulted the genre. I was insulted for that (this surprised me). I replied with something that I knew would be taken as insulting. And so on. I’m only surprised that people were offended by my first statement. The others were intentionally shitty, and were probably not misconstrued. I thought the conversation was mostly fun, but I guess it wasn’t too fun for Ing.
However, I didn’t know that until Ing reported here. I misinterpreted a winky emoticon for playfulness.
I don’t think you’re weird. I also find it a turnoff, it feels too much like a stagy puton whenever a partner has tried it. I know there are people explicitly into being naughty children but it’s never been my kink and it doesn’t seem to be even close to the majority of Other People’s Kink that I’ve seen.
It’s pretty fascinating the different ways people are attracted to expressing power imbalance for sexual purposes. Military/cop stuff, institutional obedience like nuns, chattel slavery, harem slavery, about forty million different permutations of captive/kidnap, and that’s not even getting into pony/pet play (or the ways people incorporate pain without any element of power differential, or the relationships without any roleplay at all where it’s simply agreed that one person is in charge and all parties concerned get off on it).
only in the sense that it’ll expedite the process by eventually dumping me into a depression so deep I won’t crawl out of it again. Since it takes active effort not to be that depressed, procrastination won’t get me to a non-violent death. distraction from my own thoughts/emotions might work, provided it’s constant and harmless enough; finding something that would qualify emotionally as worthwhile would probably work a lot better though.
aw, AE, you hurt Ing’s feelings?
Just for that:
comics : DFW :: The Cure : (say) Coltrane
I’m not usually one to snark about comments on the interwebz (otherwise what would I do other than mock people on YouTube?) but this has me confuzzled. The Economist has a new blog on China. Comments are coming in thick and fast. Comments including this:
I see four possibilities:
1. I’m too drunk to understand.
2. Chinglish.
3. {H,Sh}e’s insane.
4. Things are really fucked up.
5. It’s a disinformation campaign.
See? I said “four”, then came up with five!
6. I’m losing my mind …
Nutmeg, #457: I’m not good at schmoozing at all, either. I’m lucky in that I’m able to earn a living without doing so, but I also realize that if I could do that adeptly, I’d be a lot better off financially.
Pteryxx, #469: I LOL’ed. How’d I miss that one? I wonder if they have a Chicago store anywhere near Wacker Drive.
Bill, #481: You seem to be basing your argument on the assumption that if there is no penetration of genitals or anus and no stimulation of either or of nipples, the scenario in question cannot be inherently erotic. I disagree; eroticism is all in the mind, and therefore all in the framing.
Specifically to spanking porn, I dispute whether it’s no different in its eroticism than a video of an actual schoolgirl being caned by an actual headmaster for an actual infraction of the rules. Without getting into details that are probably more than some people want to read, the former will likely use stock phrases, an overly sexualized school uniform, timing of blows, crying with a lot of gasps and not a lot of nasal mucus, etc. etc. Clichés, sure, but clichés get a lot of people off.
The caning of an actual, unwilling student? Certainly, that would turn some people on, but it’d be a different subset than those turned on by the spanking porn, though probably with some overlap. However, the eroticism in the first scenario is much more pronounced because it is being deliberately framed as erotic.
The citizens of the City of Cranston are shocked, SHOCKED! that as the losers they are expected to pay the totally unnecessary costs accrued in this slam-dunk case. I’m sure each person who threw a hissy fit at the School Committee meeting will be willing to chip in a Grand.
http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-providence/ri-aclu-wants-city-of-cranston-to-pay-173-000-for-prayer-banner-case
Not at all the same thing.
Really? You were really surprised by that? I find that hard to believe.
Also, comics (graphic novel, whatever) is a medium, not a genre. There are many genres of storytelling embraced by the comics medium.
Sure. I should say that I haven’t read the thread in question (I probably should have done before responding to Ing’s comment), and didn’t mean to attack you personally.
Oh crap, are we not talking about things that Chas likes again?
Rev. BDC, #420: I see your Jesus practical jokes and raise you this cartoon.
Wait, what?
Yo, is this racist?
I thought of this in the Posing thread but want to cross-post since its mostly off-topic and will probably get more responses here:
Is butthurt homophobic? Like panties in a bunch is sexist? I never thought of it as such before, it just hit me to ask. I’ve used both, but stopped with the panties in a bunch once I realized “doh teh sexist”. Butthurt seems to be in the same line because of the whole toxic meme of straight men being so very protective of their precious assholes that much never be touched because that would make them gay. Huh. Thoughts?
Sidenote: I wish Yo, is the sexist and I’m not a sexist but.. were as popular as their racist counterparts.
Ahh yes, Jewish family guilt.
JAL, there’s also Spanglish and Konglish just off the top of my head, so I think it’s just a handy word-smoosh (don’t know the correct lingustic jargon although I’m sure it’s cool).
…Natalie is SO AWESOME! eleventy!
First, she writes this great long well-thought-out post about so-called and self-identified allies:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2012/02/01/but-im-an-ally-im-on-your-side
And then later in comments:
What more need be said I ask you! *squee*
Any bets that the Cranston school board members whining about paying their voluntarily incurred court costs are the same kind of people who are like “If you didn’t want to go to jail for 11 million years you shouldn’t have smoked weed! You do the crime you do the time”?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Just a Lurker: The consensus here seems to be that “butthurt” is wrong because, depending on how you perceive it, it regards either spanking or anal rape as “just desserts.”
Rev. BDC: As a (non-practicing) Member Of The Tribe, I find the cartoon hilarious, and so does my family.
J_A_L: “Yo, is this racist?”
I claim “no”, but arguments to the contrary are welcome. Note, however, that that was #2 on the list: #1 was “me” (deliberately).
Actually, I was hoping someone with better (i.e., some) Chinese could explain the more colourful phrases (“animalized”?!) in terms of the mismatch between Chinese and English.
FWIW.
Anyone?