By now, you must have heard that ScienceDebate 2008 had submitted a list of science and technology policy questions to our presidential candidates. So for, only Obama has answered them, while McCain has been silent (maybe he’s waiting for input from his creationist VP choice). Obama’s answers are pretty darned good, although we have to keep in mind that these are campaign promises, many of the proposals look rather expensive, and with the economy going as it is, implementation may be problematic. But the attitude is positive, at least.
Obama recognizes the problem that the US is a fading star in international science, and sees that the answer requires more investment in research and in science education. He sees that global warming is real, that the country must reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and that this is an economic opportunity…and a research opportunity. He sees that our national security benefits from technology. He has the right idea on the importance of genetics and stem cell research, and is going to lift the ban on creating new stem cell lines.
His answer on what he’s going to do to improve education contain many good ideas, too, including a specific education committee within the Office of Science and Technology Policy (which advises the president — we also need such an office for Congress).
I’ll give him a thumbs up on this one, with some reservations that maybe he’ll address later. In particular, I can’t help but notice that in all the general discussion about better science education, not once is a major stumbling block, evolution, mentioned. I hope this is just a small specific oversight in an admittedly general policy survey, and that there isn’t any aversion to the “e” word.
Now I really want to hear what the Republican answer to these questions might be. Perhaps after the convention this week McCain/Palin will get around to it?
I noticed the lack of ‘evolution’ in the answers but thought more along the lines that the questions didn’t particularly involve that topic in the first place (in contrast to things like energy policies, global warming etc). Were the ‘Framers’ involved in compiling the list of questions?
Surely the main reason to vote Obama is to keep those nuts McCain & Palin out of office.
Failin’ Palin said this:
Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.
She’s not going to be answering difficult science questions anytime soon.
Hillary Holdouts, wake up!
“If it was good enough for the founding fathers.”
I find it rather quaint that I know more than Palin about American history, and I’m not even American.
“Failin’ Palin said this: Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not? SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.” – CalGeorge, #3
Background on this at http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html
That’s right up there with the rural school board that voted not to to teach any furrin languages in the school because if English was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for the kids.
I hate to have to be memetic, but:
FAIL
PZ@OP: Do you still see this as “I guess I’ll hold my nose and vote for him”? Or are you actually a bit enthusiastic about him now? We have these answers, plus him actually mentioning science a few times in his conference speech, plus the VP picks (Palin’s ID/AGW-denier nonsense vs. Biden calling ID “Malarky”).
Johny is right. If the right is wrong, the left is right, the right is backwards and the left is forwards.
What must Johny do to face north? (show work)
Go forwards not backwards, upwards not forwards, and forever twirling, twirling towards freedom.
Move to Canada, ingest one large poutine and three beers and try to walk up hill. If in Toronto he will be facing North, if in Montreal he will see North from the top of the Mountain anyway (with a prettier view then most of Toronto).
He didn’t mention evolution, but he did say that scientific knowledge should not be distorted by ideology.
Matt Heath: It did for me. This (plus some very disturbing conversations with my inlaws at a bbq yesterday) has cemented it. It is just what I needed to push me over the edge and openly support Obama.
Obama on Faith/Evolution/ID (from the York, PA Daily Record):
“I’m a Christian, and I believe in parents being able to provide children with religious instruction without interference from the state. But I also believe our schools are there to teach worldly knowledge and science. I believe in evolution, and I believe there’s a difference between science and faith. That doesn’t make faith any less important than science. It just means they’re two different things. And I think it’s a mistake to try to cloud the teaching of science with theories that frankly don’t hold up to scientific inquiry.”
Given that he is, after all, a politician, I think this NOMA-ridden answer is about the best we can hope for–it’s certainly light years beyond Palin’s foolishness.
I somehow think that between the convention and figuring out how to make things happen around Gustav, the list of science questions from SEFORA will remain at the back of the list of priorities for M/P. If it ever made it to their list of priorities, that is.
I wish we had as nice a chap as Obama back here in England, I have been quite impressed so far and actually wish him all the best. I honestly hope he gets to be President, he looks far more competent than McCain to do the job.
When I first looked at the candidate race I was shocked at the level of intelligence from some of the people who wanted to run for office.
This response from Obama fills me with a bit more confidence – McCain and his new token VP model so far have not impressed me one bit. But, I will await their answers to the questions any way, see if they have even a modicum of intelligence that so far I have not seen fit to credit them with.
#10:
If you’re in Vancouver, you’ll also be facing North if you walk towards the mountains. Keep going, and you’ll be doing the Grouse Grind (still facing North): http://www.grousemountain.com/Summer/summer-activities/vancouver-bc-hiking-trails-trips/grouse-grind.asp Congratulations!
If you’re in Regina, there is no uphill…
Hi all
First post here.
“Climate Change” is considered preferable to “Global Warming” as the latter, although not wrong, it is inaccurate. It can also be misleading and gives certain people who cannot understand the simple term “average measured temperature” the opportunity to flood the internet with idiotic comments ala “my area is getting colder the past few years so there is no global warming”.
links:
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basicinfo.html (right panel)
http://scitizen.com/screens/blogPage/viewBlog/sw_viewBlog.php?idTheme=13&idContribution=533
thank you and sorry for any errors (english not my native language)
Well, I don’t believe Obama actually wrote any of that, but if he endores what was written, then that is good enough for me.
He seems to trust the actual experts, which is always better than someone who ignores the experts because some book with fairytales says otherwise.
We have his sister. She is married to an Englishman and lives with him over here. I heard an interview with her husband on Saturday.
COMMIE EUROTRASH HOLDING OBAMA’S FAMILY HOSTAGE — DICTATING SOCIALIST AGENDA FROM ABROAD!
If only it were that easy.
“If it was good enough for the founding fathers”
We should ask Palin what she thinks of slavery.
Considering that MacCain believes that stem cells have human rights http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XRZX_ndZN-g I think its easy to predict what his answer to the 8th question will be. so sad the education question didn’t mention the problem of religious teaching in science class.
Hey! It’s not our fault that we don’t have any right to vote for the “leader of the free world”.
The Spine is a widening gyre, springing from one central point. But the centre cannot hold. The falconer has lost his falcon! The beast approaches! Twenty thousand centuries of sleep! The hour come at last!
A large percent of America’s students don’t learn about evolution at all, and Obama ignores this disgraceful fact. Certainly he knows about it. Perhaps he is sucking up to religious idiots so he can get elected.
You’re right on
KangAndresAlas, Obama’s sister split up with her English husband about 8 years ago, although they remain on good terms. The guy was actually on the BBC Radio 4 this weekend talking about how Obama went on his stag night http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/saturdaylive/saturdaylive.shtml .
Since certain parts of the media seem to think that Obama is too elitist to even drink beer, perhaps this might reassure them.
It’s an election year; does anyone actually think Obama answered those questions, or was it some word-smithing poll-reading spin doctor?
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for McCain to give answers. Even if he once believed in a rational approach to politics and decision making, he long ago gave up on it. For the last four years he’s been sucking up to the religious right that controls the Republican party and now that they’ve accepted him, he can’t very well return to rational positions. His choice of Palin for VP is a perfect example. Were he to succeed, I’d expect more of the same once in office and I’d expect him to be even more bizarre in his decisions than Bush.
Arno (#18) as for whether Obama actually wrote the answers from his campaign, I can’t say, but he’s his campaign’s own chief strategist, writes his own speeches and talking points, and allows no one to tell him what to do. In short he’s his own handler. He may not have drafted the actual answers given everything else on his plate, but I fully expect he talked them over with whoever wrote them and edited them up before they were released. From what I hear he’s not a control freak or micro manager like Carter was, but someone who is very sure of himself and a quick study of things substantive.
Barack Obama said:
That doesn’t come out and say it, but it implies evolution > ID
WE as Americans have fallen victim to George again. The dismal state of federal leadership has been SO BAD, that anything that appears to think looks good to us.
That is not a great state of affairs, folks.
McCain is so bad too that if it can utter four syllables, he/she is our guy/gal.
I love the idea of Obama being president. A bi-racial dude who can speak in public without making us cringe and want to claim Canadian citizenship. Way cool!
But scratch the surface and once again you will realize that you have been had. Another career politician in bed with those who really run Washington.
America has not had a good president in my lifetime. Ford, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, the Bush’s, Bill…
Think about it.
Now we’ve got Obama matched up against that Uncle Sylvester guy from the Adam’s family…
(Put a light bulb in John McCain’s mouth and you’ll see what I mean.)
Washington DC has not shown the competence to be dictator of science or education or world affairs or forest management (what hits me where I live the hardest) or wealth management or anything else, and yet, look at how so many can’t wait to get new guys into power so that they can continue to piss America’s wealth into federal black holes….
I am disappointed in your urging people to vote for an arrogant, elitist, insincere, eloquent bs-pusher for President. I don’t give a rat’s ass who Europe or any other part of the world wants as U.S. President. Obama has accomplished nothing, other than he was among those making sure any human infant born alive that isn’t wanted gets no medical help and is left to die(infanticide). Another reason I disagree, though, is that I believe parents, even those who are ignorant and stupid, should retain the right to decide what their children hear in any government-controlled institution, including schools, until we practice eugenics and ban all but the elite (like Obama and his pandering wife) from reproducing. I’m voting for Bob Barr. He is the only candidate that may stop some of the erosion of our civil liberties in the U.S. As for Europe and the rest of the world, they can k*ss my *ss.
And the blithertarian infestation of another thread has begun.
I’m very sorry to disappoint you folks, but I am an Obama supporter. The disappointment comes from the fact that EVERY candidate I have ever supported has lost. From year president elections in school, through to local town elections, government elections: I have got it badly wrong every time. I rashly assumed that everyone would be voting for the most rational and logical candidate.
I’ve only just learned in the last decade that it doesn’t work that way. Shame on me that it took so long to work that out. Everyone knows that the election goes to the guy with the best hair. McCain’s hair might be white, but at least it’s not frizzy – don’t know if America is ready for a non-white president. I’d love to be proved wrong.
wow…
wait, is there a Poe’s Law for polotics?
I hate to have to be memetic, but: FAIL
LOL!
INTLLIGU- INTELOGEN- INTTLOG-
SMARTS! SHEZ DOIN IT WRONG!
Now we’ve got Obama matched up against that Uncle Sylvester guy from the Adam’s family…
Scott wins the thread.
Although two points off for the fact that it was Uncle *Fester*.
Yes Bob Barr; the man who said Wiccans should be booted out of the military, surely he will defend our civil liberties. Why don’t you libertarians just get over your self-satisfied political hipsterism and just vote for someone sane with an actual base of support and concrete, LIBERAL, plans for governing already?
Also, Clinton was a great president. So what if he had sex with some intern? Using prestige and power to get under-aged, naive nookie is something 9 out of 10 politicians do; its practically the reason we have a page program and voters in some countries, like France and Italy, won’t even trust a candidate enough to vote for him if he doesn’t have some mistresses under his belt (not that I think either states are examples the Union should be emulating).
Powerful men are universally philanderers; get over your politically-motivated prudery and admit how successful much of his policy program was.
Your problem is you’re too young. I’m old enough to remember Kennedy. He was a darn good president in my opinion. Unfortunately he didn’t predict his assassination and he made the worst possible choice for Vice-president, Johnson. Thanks to Johnson we lost thousands of soldiers in a war we lost. America was so disgusted with the Democratic party after Johnson they voted for Nixon, who was another disaster.
I remember being impressed with McCain back in 2000 when he was running against Bush for the nomination. And the only thing I can wonder now is what the hell happened to that man in the intervening 8 years?
Is the onset of senility typically this quick, or is that really Kodoss in a McCain suit?
Or are my memories simply rose-tinted by the passage of time and the fact that even a rutabaga looks like a genius when compared with G. W. Bush?
BTW, those of you who have been gruesomely mangling Yeats and mixing the quivering remains with The Simpsons, please continue. I like.
Or are my memories simply rose-tinted by the passage of time and the fact that even a rutabaga looks like a genius when compared with G. W. Bush?
somewhat, but you’re absolutely right that McCain has done an about-face on a great many issues (there are dozens of sites documenting it).
I rather think he learned ‘a lesson’ in getting heavily attacked for trying to criticize the GoP for their reliance on the religious right in 2000. He didn’t get the nomination then, and I think (pretty damn sure, actually, especially given his VP choice and the fact that he literally changed his official “religion” at the start of this election cycle) he now has decided he has to jump on the fundie bandwagon to garner that voter block.
From a purely numerical standpoint, I can hardly fault him for doing so.
It’s still quite sad to see nobody is willing to be the adult though, and tell the screaming, sugar addicted kiddies NO.
Why all scientists and researchers MUST think Obama is the dude:
As anyone who has spent time with Obama knows, he likes experts, and his choice of advisers stems in part from his interest in empirical research.
James Heckman, a Nobel laureate who critiqued the campaign’s education plan at Goolsbee’s request, said, “I’ve never worked with a campaign that was more interested in what the research shows.”
from: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/magazine/24Obamanomics-t.html?ei=5124&en=3f870e2f108dfde3&ex=1377057600&partner=facebook&exprod=facebook&pagewanted=all
While I do not subscribe to karma, it seems we (the country) are getting our own for our past treatment of the aboriginal inhabitants.
Are we known for the company we keep? Save me from the OFB! At least someone can laugh about it… A Harvard educated smartass, indeed!
I’m so glad he addressed this newfangled technology of “recombinant DNA (rDNA).” If it catches on, who knows what kinds of disturbing applications it might have!
(Sorry, I’m a geneticist. For the rest of you: Obama was a teenager when recombinant DNA was new and controversial, so it’s hard to understand why he’s addressing it now.)
So are they going to actually debate on science issues or was this 14 questions it?
SC #33: Are people free to post their opinions if only they agree to shill for a certain political ideology?
Strictly (or maybe mildly) irrelevant but can someone direct a beginner like me (and even that is an understatement) to a comprehensive guide about the particulars of the upcoming experiment in the LHC of CERN?
I don’t know what political ideology you have in mind. I’m an anarchist, but I don’t ramble on about abstract anarchist theory on every political thread or show up calling people suckers for supporting a candidate or not being radicals. I’m tired of reading this hollow rhetoric and sloganeering, especially since much of it is only related to the specific topic at hand in the most general way. The constant “Think about it”s and “What you people don’t see”s and “you’ve all been had”s are tiresome, to say the least.
People are always free to post their opinions, and I’m free to comment on it.
“Now we’ve got Obama matched up against that Uncle Sylvester guy from the Adam’s family…”
Uncle Fester. I mean jeez, if you’re going to go on a pointless diatribe, at least get your pop culture figures right.
“While I do not subscribe to karma, it seems we (the country) are getting our own for our past treatment of the aboriginal inhabitants.”
Sure. Too bad the natives are getting screwed even worse than the rest of us.
I’ve always been a Democrat, because I’ve known for the longest that since the 1960’s, the GOP has fought a battle against science and free thought that continues to this very day.
I know– Uncle Fester…
I hit send and then repented…
Then I had to run off to the hospital.
Clinton WAS NOT a great president. He dropped bombs on people who did not deserve it. He rode a tech bubble to the end and handed off a huge looming recession to Bush, who got the fed to never let it happen by handing out discounted money until the housing bubble could float no more…
So we got what we have now, and we are going to see it get much worse.
He also made lying an art form and once again showed that great men don’t come out of America very often.
At least he was articulate, though. I’ll give him that.
I may not be a citizen of the States, and never planned to be either, but if Obama can hold true to these statements, the American pastures might start looking greener!
Feeling more happy about Obama now!
Jared‘s analysis of Obama’s responses over at ERV is worth reading.
Face it folks. We’re screwed.
We have two idiots running for President. Obama is going to be this generations’ version of Jimmy Carter… just a backlash reaction to Bush, except with a really scary hidden agenda.
McCain just picked the worst running mate in history since Spiro Agnew.
Anyone here who thinks Obama is going to be a good President has not read The Audacity of Hope.
We’re screwed. Hunker down friends. It is going to be a tough four years.
SC #49 Perhaps pointing out the hypocrisy of extolling the virtues of free-market capitalism while supporting things like school vouchers might be more constructive than calling libertarians names. Many of them are just disgruntled Republicans but others simply need a kick in the rear to guide them in the right direction. I’m curious what writers, if any, influenced your world view. For me it was Bastiat, Spooner, Browne, and Rothbard.
These are expensive ideas, but I think they stand a good chance. I also think that a sound investment in new science will create many more jobs, keep jobs in the US, and better the world at the benefit of America’s pocket.
I think Japan, China, and Germany are making a point clear: science IS the new economy. Fail science and the consequences will be recession (oh, wait, American banks already know that).
I saw this story yesterday. I liked much of what I read, even though parsing it to knock out superfluous verbiage tired me out some. Why is it no politician worth voting for can ever put things simply ?
Why can’t I do both? :) In fact, I’ve engaged with them quite a bit on recent threads, as have many others. I’ve concluded that they’re ideologues with little or nothing constructive to offer. I’m tired of seeing so many threads, on a wide variety of interesting and important subjects, hijacked by them. I doubt we share an idea of “the right direction,” but if you want to have those discussions, be my guest. I may or may not continue to voice my annoyance or to mock openly.
Assuming you mean influenced my world view in the specific sense of leading me toward anarchism (otherwise this blog isn’t big enough to contain the list): mainly Kropotkin, Goldman, Bakunin, Luigi Fabbri, Voltairine de Cleyre, Anselmo Lorenzo, Ricardo Mella,… But of equal importance has been learning about the history of what anarchists have done on the ground.
Posted by: Tom (the UK one) @ 34
“I’m very sorry to disappoint you folks, but I am an Obama supporter. The disappointment comes from the fact that EVERY candidate I have ever supported has lost. From year president elections in school, through to local town elections, government elections: I have got it badly wrong every time. I rashly assumed that everyone would be voting for the most rational and logical candidate…..”
You make it sound like you’re betting on a horse race. The object isn’t to pick the winner, but to be part of “choosing” the winner.
“Why can’t I do both? :) In fact, I’ve engaged with them quite a bit on recent threads, as have many others. I’ve concluded that they’re ideologues with little or nothing constructive to offer”.
Actually, I was thinking that about you. Nothing new out of your piehole that I can see.
Some whining. Some name calling.
Been there done that.
Graduated and went on to Junior High…
Feel free to ignore my posts or add me to your killfile, Scott from Oregon. In fact, please do. And since I start teaching this week, there’ll be fewer to ignore. Good luck with your contentless condescending contrarianism.
That was really good. Whoever wrote that for Obama would have my vote.
Kel#64:
That was really good. Whoever wrote that for Obama would have my vote.
I can’t keep up with you nutters. First he’s an elitist interlekshewal (oh the horror, a presidential candidate with a brain!), then he’s a puppet without a mind of his own.
And the ‘hidden agenda’ alluded to upthread (Everbleed@#56) – FFS SPELL IT OUT! Acknowledge that the stupid consiracy theory – “Obama’s a terrist/seekrit mooslim” is really a cover for your fear that he’s an ‘uppity niggra’ with ‘ideas above his station’ and that he’s planning on avenging the inequalities of the past (and present) upon you.
I’m sad to say that the quality of commenters has dropped off here in the last couple of weeks – it’s starting to look like frackin’ youTube. Why aren’t people reaming the hell out of the gun-nuts, libertards and general mouth-breathers any more?
Who said he was a puppet? All politicians have speech writers and hordes of people to write responses up. No doubt Obama would have been consulted and laid out the basics, but seriously. You expect a politician to fully formalise a response like that for something that will only be seen by a small proportion of the voting population?
#22
“”If it was good enough for the founding fathers”
We should ask Palin what she thinks of slavery.”
I’m sure she’s giddily in favour of it. After all, not only was slavery ok enough to not do anything about it with the founding fathers, it’s specifically sanctioned in the Bible itself.
So any other opinion would be positively unchristian. :P
#67: And a daughter named after a slave port!!!!11 Tell everyone: Palin hearts slavery.
Thanks, all, for the tip re/ Palin’s priceless comment on the Pledge of Allegiance! Those attempting to read the original will have noticed that the Eagle Forum, understandably embarrassed, has yanked the post. However, on the Intertubes, embarrassment is forever!
Thank you, thank you, Wayback Machine!
I checked the Declaration of Independence again and I couldn’t find Eisenhower’s signature. Maybe this Palin isn’t as smart as people claim. Albeit, the people claiming she is smart are pretty clueless.
As far as Obama writing or not writing those responses, at least there are responses, and it’s nice to see he has a Science Advisor ready for appointment. Here in Canada, our prime minister just made the Science Advisor position obsolete. (The PM couldn’t stand all the liberal climate change hullabaloo and staunch anti-ID rhetoric.) Rest assured, I’m certain McCain has somebody lined up to cross out scientific data that doesn’t jive with the GOP ideology. He will probably be lazy and use Dubya’s guy…
What’s this deal with this empty promise:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/06/why_i_will_never_vote_for_bara.php
I really enjoy reading some of your posts, but your rhetoric often makes it difficult to separate signal from noise.
Clinton WAS NOT a great president.
If you want to be viewed as even semi intelligent, tell us what the biggest difference in approach to handling the office was between willy and dubya.
I’m guessing you really don’t know.
as to the tech bubble, think again. There was a reason some folks put the label “invented the internet” on Al Gore; even though, of course, he didn’t.
you apparently know as much about policy initiatives by our current and former presidents as you do about economics.
the amazing thing is, none of this stuff is hard information to come by.
1st post:
As someone who grew on the “science generation” outside the US, it is almost impossible to understand how some people think “The Flinstones” are a documentary (as 1st said by Lewis Black).
Although considering the decline in education in general, it is not a surprise.
I really hope (no pun intended) Obama wins.
Have a good week.