An elementary school in Missouri has been allowing the Gideons to distribute bibles to students on their lunch hour. It’s crazy stupid, a clear violation of the separation of church and state (not that fundie churches care about that anymore). Fortunately, Americans United is on the ball.
In its brief, AU asserts that the U.S. Supreme Court has held that school district promotion of religion puts pressure on nonbelievers or dissenters and is unconstitutional.
“In the cafeteria, students who choose to take Bibles and those who choose not to will be visible to much, if not all, of the student community — a prospect made more likely given the school’s small size, 427 students,” the brief said. “Any child visibly ignoring the availability of the Bibles or returning to class empty-handed will stand out to his peers and thus feel pressured to take a Bible.”
The Gideons distribute the Bibles “to encourage the children to accept Christ as their personal savior.” The Bibles distributed at South Iron also include a place for students to sign under the written statement: “My Decision to Receive Christ as My Savior.”
That’s a sound, frequently-used strategy. May I suggest another? Next time the Gideons invade the school, dispatch a crack team of radical atheists to the lunch room to:
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Show students where the racy/violent parts of the bible are.
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Teach them how to fold an origami pigasus from the pages.
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For students with less dexterity, to referee paper airplane flying contests.
Let’s teach students to disrespect foolishness!
In keeping with your suggestions, let’s pass just the Song of Solomon at times, with the fun parts highlighted.
Of course the genocide parts, while not at all fun, deserve dissemination.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Some organization could demand permission to hand out copies of Thomas Paine’s Age of Reason. It wouldn’t cost much, and it would be a difficult request to deny.
I suppose they could use the “I already have a full set at home” tactic.
I’d be down for that.
The pigasus is seriously cute.
Well, the school is “allowing” the Gideons on campus. Schools being what they are, any unauthorized adults on campus would promptly be reported to the police. The thing I would do is seek authorization, be rejected, and then take it to the courtroom.
Not that I didn’t enjoy your daydream right along with you, oh, yes. :)
Fuuuuuuuck yeah! Let the games begin!!!
#1: Isn’t the Song of Solomon all the fun part? One of the few things I remember from Sunday School was not being allowed to read that book. When I was 7, I couldn’t understand why…
Every time I see stories like this, I wince – I know how easily that could be our school. So, so easily.
I’d give them handouts with a passage of Holy Scripture: Ezekiel 23:19-21
“19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.”
Then I’d have them sign a statement that this is God’s Word.
I’d tell my kids to get as many of them as they’ll let you take so you can keep them out of the hands of others, plus they make good fuel for toasting crackers.
Anymore?
Which raises a number of other issues in addition to the bibles.
Evidence of evolution!!!
Take that crocoduck.
Why do these pinheads always pull such stunts in places where I have to stay in a motel afterward if I want to confront them? Come on, you freaking mutants! Bring your traveling show someplace where you won’t be preaching to the choir! Do your act in San Francisco, where I can sleep in my own bed after I get done with you. Jeebus.
Follow the bible cretins and hand out the books by Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens.
Just wait. The next step is that the Gideons will claim that not allowing them unfettered access to vulnerable minds is a violation of free speech but that allowing any other religious group (or atheists, either) is somehow discrimination against them.
If funding can be acquired, I volunteer to stand on a soap box and quote the Bible to the children during lunch time.
And this, boys in girls, is why it is so difficult to teach children critical thinking, science, and logic…
Encourage your kids to challenge them directly with Mark 16:18; dare the Gideons to drink deadly poison, and when they refuse (and they will), your kids can go Poe on them, accusing them of not being true Christians/ having no faith/ being agents of Satan trying to lead kids astray etc, etc.
This works even better if there’s a disabled kid in the school. What, you won’t heal him/her? How do we know you’re a *real* Christian then, if you can’t even faith-heal a simple case of Spina Bifida?
This is really, really fun. I’ve done it, though in a church and not a school, and nothing throws fundies off more than asking them to do something the Bible says they should, then being able to act like a super-fundie when they refuse.
The best part was when they threatened to call the cops: “You mean I come in here and cite the law of GOD, and you threaten me with the laws of ma-an?! Vile hypocrites, surely this is a church of Sa-tan!”
It might also be fun to have someone point out all of the contradictions. You know, like the multiple paths Joseph and Mary took to the naivety scene, the questionable fatherhood of Joseph, the uncertainty as to what order everything was created in, the omniscient god needing to see Isaac try to kill his son to test his loyalty, etc. It would help inoculate them against believing in the “inerrant word” of the deity being pitched.
Holbach! Huzzah, good to ‘see’ you again!
Tom @ #8 – KJV:
There is one point which is very important for the legal process, and which that AU article is not clear on: are other groups allowed to distribute material to students under the same conditions?
Holbach @13,
actually, one could do even better by telling the kids, “Hey, if you’re interested in the bible, check this out”, and then giving them the URL of the Brick Testament.
It’s often said that it’s difficult for belief in God to survive a really serious reading of the bible. Especially true in that version! And the best thing is, one would be combatting the depredations of the Gideons not with the words of Dawkins or Hitchens but of God Almighty Himself!
Seriously, though: the Gideons have no business at that school. What they’re doing (or more precisely, what the school’s management is allowing them to do) is a flagrant violation of the US constitution. One needn’t be an atheist to see that (the head of Americans United, for example, is a reverend).
The country I live in does not have the same strict church/state separation that the US constitution demands. But even so, when the Gideons pass out bibles to schoolchildren here (as I have seen them doing once), they would never dream of doing so on campus; they stand outside the school grounds. Which is their good right, and a firm but polite “no, thank you” will do. But for a US school to permit the Gideons to give out bibles within the school grounds needs more that that; it needs a lawsuit.
It might also be fun to have someone point out all of the contradictions.
This could be of help:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Do bibles make good flip books? A bible and a thick black sharpie could be good fun.
@21 If they do allow equal access, perhaps we should arange to get some additional literature to the students.
Patricia @ 19 Good to “see” you again also!
It doesn’t matter if they are so long as the other material is secular in nature. You are not allowed to promote religion in a public school.
I always found it odd that Bibles are printed on the same paper as “cigarette” rolling paper.
PZ, now that you’ve already desecrated a communion wafer, it only makes sense that we should teach students to make paper planes out of Bibles. It’s just the natural progression of things.
That said, the first bullet point is a great idea. I’d love to have a group of clever, local atheists giving presentations about religion because, truth be told, we kick their asses in the young demographics, when given equal time to make a point.
The Bible, when actually read, is the greatest tool for attacking religion we have ever been offered.
When they used to come to the college I’d take one and use it like a security pass for the rest of the day. Just wave it at the Bible thumpers and they’ll leave you alone.
If you’re feeling particularly nasty you thrust your Bible at them while yelling “BACK! Get BACK, You Foul Demon! BACK to the foul depths which spawned you! BACK I say!”
I hope AU has lawyers who are better versed in the relevant law than you are. The government (in this case the school administration) may not promote any one religion over others. If groups are allowed to pass out material to students in the lunchroom, then all groups must be allowed to do so, whether secular or not. See for example cases about a school which allows fliers to be sent home with children.
Bibles were distributed during school once… in kindergarten. (New Testament small copy)… I think I still have that copy somewhere.
Ridiculous that they were allowed to do so, then and now.
ProfMTH,
Some of the kids in my Catholic High School discovered that “cigarette” rolling paper similarity in Religion class. They were so stoked, man. It was like the friggin coolest thing ever, dude. I remember one of them rolling something in a study period near an oblivious teacher who obviously didn’t recognize the smell.
Mrs Tilton @ 22 Your comments are apt and well known to those of us that abhor this wanton pandering of religious nonsense to school children. It is such a frustrating and ever ongoing situation and will be perpetuated forever as long as you have religious parents to indoctrinate their kids into their religion, and their kids, and their kids, ad infinitum. I think we all agree that if the parents are atheists, not only will they be spared the pox of religious nonsense, but they will have freer and more sensible minds to determine the irrationality and harm which religion, as we know, is a form of child abuse. For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone who was brought up religious does not take stock of the whole irrational baggage, reason it out, and then slough off the offal of all religion. I was brought up a catholic and have been an atheist more than half my life through my own volition, without any prompting from anyone, and all from the simple and blatant act of observation, reading and thinking. So it really comes down to the individual and their free willingness to do as many of us have done, and yet they cannot muster one iota to free themselves from the stultifying crud of religious nonsense. What are we to make of these people who have as many opportunities at hand to redirect their brains and lives in the cause of reason and yet persist in their irrational behavior? This is why I have abject contempt for people who insist in retaining these unnecessary and stupid ideas. They are not to be reasoned with as they have shown repeatedly, but onlt treated with ridicule and contempt. I would not waste my time in explaining to them what they can do for themselves as I have done. No pity or regard.
@Reginald: Then they need to clearly stipulate that. Is there a clear legitimate reason for letting people proselytize at kindergartners during their lunch hour, anyways?
Insults do not an argument make.
Here’s the ACLU’s page on the South Iron school district. It says that the school district changed its policy in hopes of avoiding the lawsuit, from a policy of classroom distribution to one of lunchroom distribution. The school district lost in court, in a decision covering both policies. Rather than accept and accomodate the decision, the school district has appealed.
Here’s an article on the case from Feb 2008, when the court decision was announced. Note that the judge emphasized the same point I am making.
Yupper. Much more cost-effective, and less of a chance of being shot or burned alive while being hung (what lynching in the South entails).
Of course, Jason’s suggestion works if you have the guts to carry it off:
I have no problem with people handing out free toilet paper at lunch. It is a necessary service.
Jason – I don’t think I’d much like being used in that way if I were the disabled kid, to be honest.
A couple of days out of the year they stand just outside school grounds (if a kid is walking home – they are approached)I don’t know if this is illegal or not but I call the school and complain every time. There is a police officer there -working the traffic- that does nothing to stop them.
From the decision:
[…]
So, apparently, it does not, in fact, matter if they allow other organizations to distribute material in the lunchroom.
@S.Scott: You can bet that if anyone else were caught standing there, approaching little kids walking home from school, they’d be told in not too kind words to get away.
Hmmm – I wonder if that is the reason they only gave us the New Testament?
Of course, this is a christian nation, so much less brouhaha about the whole thing.
Got a nice hardback for my confirmation. I think the parish pay them out of an endowment from the local ‘governor’ around the end of the 18th century. Used to fund education and widows, if I recall correctly, but there’s not much left. I guess it’s a small miracle that anything is left after the State Bankruptcy, though.
You are correct, of course. Sometimes I get so caught up in fighting the religious nutcases, that I forget that everybody(else) is deserving of my respect.
And, for the record, I only went to church with a Bible, some extra-strength cleaning fluid and drinking glasses. No disabled persons were involved.
The only guidance needed to find gruesome violence in the bible is to look in the first half or last chapter.
In a related note, I was joking with my (Christian) family that the children’s bible my niece had been given should’ve included the story of the kids who were mauled to death by bears for making fun of Elisha’s baldness. They didn’t believe such a story could be in the bible. I can only presume they’ve only be reading the children’s versions.
Ok may I suggest someone films the real horrors of the bible.. like Noah’s flood.
Let’s how it strikes people to see the families trying to rescue their kids, lets see their faces watching an ocean full of dead bodies, we are talking toddlers, kids, women.. animals.
Thats just one story from það evil imaginary massmurder from outer space.
Someone did a book version of selected passages:
Illustrated Stories from the Bible by Paul Farrell.
You can also check out The Brick Testament online.
No disabled persons were involved.
I had no doubt. I mean, you’re clearly not some callous person who would, like, make fun of someone’s name or mock him for not knowing HTML tags. (Apologies again.)
LOL! I bet the kids would love to find out about the seedy parts of the Bible, I know I did (as a youth, I found many parts of the Bible flat-out contradicted what people consider to be Christian). Also there are a ton of fantasy creatures in it for the nerdier types from the serpent to giants to the leviathan, not to mention magic and awesome weaponry and armory. And so many leads into pre-Christian myths for budding historians (my favorite is Isaiah 34:14 which introduces Lilith). But the pigasus origami, that just bowls me over with laughter! If the school allows a ‘crack team of radical atheists’ to point out all this wonderful stuff, then I’m totally ok with them passing out Bibles.
Those Gideon bibles won’t be all that racy. We used to get them occasionally where I went to school, and they were just the New Testament, not complete bibles. They generally got stuck in a locker and forgotten, too.
How about a consenting, adult disabled volunteer? I’m in. Hell, if those faith healers can’t get rid of a little bit of mild cerebral palsy, they’re falling down on the job, and I sure would like to try being able-bodied for once. (If only because I live someplace where it snows a lot, and I really hate ice.) I could even pretend to believe really hard, so that when it doesn’t work, I don’t get blamed for, you know, just not trying hard enough (as usual).
When Gideons came to my school we received the bibles in assembly, I refused mine. I later regretted it because during lunch break people were playing bible football (soccer to you Americans) and each bible didn’t last long.
Cripes, I wish I were a schoolkid again.
Aside from the obvious reason of, well, not being old anymore, there’s so many new and glorious ways to get in trouble in school these days that are solidly backed by Constitutional scholarship.
You could toss the Bibles in the trash right in the cafeteria, pour your soda on it to “test them for absorbancy”, demand the right to pass out Satantist antibibles or the Koran or the Collected Lore Of Morrowind… ack, the mind boggles!
A couple of days out of the year they stand just outside school grounds (if a kid is walking home – they are approached)I don’t know if this is illegal or not but I call the school and complain every time.
You just need a couple brave kids to stand their ground and then shout “Bad touch! Bad touch! I need an adult!” as loudly as they can, and some parents (who were standing by) to come running. Word would get around the proselytizing community soon enough, I think.
PZ, a third option: demonstrate how to carve out space in the book for hiding contraband. It worked pretty well in _The Shawshank Redemption_. You green types can think of it as repurposing.
The 6 Raunchiest, Most Depraved Sex Acts (From the Bible)
By Shayn Nicely
Quote: (on Jacob mistakenly marrying Leah when he meant to marry Rachel)
If groups are allowed to pass out material to students in the lunchroom, then all groups must be allowed to do so
That gave me a flash of kids walking to lunch, passing a gauntlet of dozens of self appointed prophets shouting religious hooha like that scene in Life Of Brian.
The new cafeteria monitor: http://www.pythonline.com/files/pythonline/story_images/KHJProphet3.png
FOLLOW THE SHOE!
I was hungry and now I am fed! It’s a miracle!
Quote: (on Jacob mistakenly marrying Leah when he meant to marry Rachel)
Which was later turned into an episode of Friends.
Oh Cthulhu, this is pathetic. I assume every kid in Missouri already has a dozen bibles.
Not seeing why the Gideons have to distribute bibles in the actual school. Aren’t they supposed to stand on the public sidewalks in overcoats with bags of candy and approach little kids with bibles and “pony” rides or something?
HidariMak (@18):
I hate to point out others’ errors, but sometimes “errors” are just too good:
FSM works in mysterious ways, eh? ;^)
Boy does this ever bring back memories! When I was in the 5th grade, the Gideons came to our school and handed out little red copies of the New Testament during class.
Of course, since my family is Jewish I still had reason to refuse my copy and I had the temerity to ask the teacher if I could wait outside until ‘the man with the bibles’ was done. It was actually quite amusing to recall the expression on the man’s face as I founced (I had pigtails – if you have pigtails and they swing to and fro when you’re walking it’s /totally/ flouncing) out of the room.
After that, obviously, I was ostracized. Hitler and Nazi jokes abounded until I was out of highschool – I still think they were jealous of my pigtails. :) They’d all be suitably horrified now that I identify as an athiest!
Rapid Rational Response Squads? Huh! Someone has been playing too many video games or reading too many superhero comics.
Although it could make for a great comic book series. The Truth and Rationality League. Ken Ham could be the Lex Luthor equivalent and Dobson and company could pop in from the Phantom Zone occasionally.
Pass out Korans and ask students to sign a statement saying they denounce Christ, for Alah is the only true god.
Do that and the situation will be resolved quickly.
In a related note, I was joking with my (Christian) family that the children’s bible my niece had been given should’ve included the story of the kids who were mauled to death by bears for making fun of Elisha’s baldness. They didn’t believe such a story could be in the bible. I can only presume they’ve only be reading the children’s versions.
They don’t read the book at all – they just take it on faith that their pastor’s interpreting it correctly.
Ironic, isn’t it? All these Protestant martyrs croaked so that the Bible could be translated into the vernacular languages of their time, and several hundred centuries later it’s back to square one.
We just had a horde of them on campus passing out green biblettes to students. They surely have good intentions, but can’t see how contemptible it is to prey upon homesick freshmen students in a time of emotional upheaval.
Riding across campus, it occurred to me what might be happening to some of those biblettes. I flipped open a trash can and snapped a picture remarkably like PZ’s desecration picture; two Gideon bibles soaking in soda pop amongst fast-food bags in a black trash bag. Probably every trash can on campus had one or more.
Ones that I have found on tables, I’ve written http://www.evilbible.com in the title page.
Stand outside the school with a recycle bin and a sign
“The Bible you were given contains errors. Please leave them here for recycling. New Bibles will be distributed later.”
This sign is true. Errors. Recycled (toilet paper?). And, the Gideons will probably be back.
I received a Gideon New Testament in grade school. Its slightly odd however given that it was a Catholic grade school.
Bill Dauphin (@ 62):
I hate to point out others’ errors, but sometimes “errors” are just too good:
Thanks for noticing, but the “naivety scene” was a deliberate typo. For being one of the central parts of the Christian faith, it’s amazing how many contradictions in that scene are overlooked, and how much silliness is swallowed whole. Finding out that the umlaut (naívety) could be left out allowed me to make it my preferred spelling for it. Oddly enough, none of my Christian contacts have seemed to have noticed.
I detest peer pressure. I think we should teach kids to properly and courteously to take such bibles, and make a big event of using it as toilet paper while ripping its pages heading into the restroom.
The clearer the message(s), the less these Gideons will do their shit.
G.E.
Tim @69,
slightly odd however given that it was a Catholic grade school
But if the Gideons were only passing out the NT, would it matter? I thought that the extra bits the catholics stuck into the bible were all in the OT.
Get educ @71,
the less these Gideons will do their shit
Quite, but we need to be clear about one thing. It’s not the Gideons who are in the wrong here. I mean, yes, they are in the wrong, if one objects to telling children about religion. But legally speaking, they have as much right to do that as other people have to tell kids there is no god, or there is a Zeus or an FSM or what have you.
The ones who are unquestionably in the wrong are the school management. In the USA, the 1st amendment does not bind the Gideons, a private organisation, any more than it binds you or me. It very much does bind the state, though, and the school management are state actors. The school’s permission to the Gideons is an outrage (and again, you don’t have to be an atheist to think so, you merely need to take the constitution seriously). I wouldn’t want to see the school board spend a wodge of money defending a lawsuit that they must invariably lose — I’d much rather they take that money and hire an extra teacher or buy some microscopes or what have you. So I hope that some more prudent head within the educational hierarchy will have the school’s management sit down with a lawyer who will explain why state schools can’t have the Gideons (or Chabad, or Sufi mystics, or Richard Dawkins, or even Bokonon himself) in to proselytise.
That may be scary but when I was in grade two (way back in the early 80’s) the Gideons came around to each classroom to hand out the little red bibles. You needed to have a parent’s note in order to decline one.
Why stop at Bibles? Let’s offer students communion waffers so that they will have something to nail to their Bibles.
Here in the UK, where we have no church-state separation, the Gideon lot get to spray their Bibles about schools with nary a bat of the eyelid. It’s not that it’s universally welcomed or even quietly tolerated, but that nobody actually gives a toss. Or rather, the majority of the schoolkids do give a toss – of the Bibles that is – into the nearest bin (or into the bushes, or out of the windows, or on the floor). It’s heartening in a way – hooray for young and independent minds – but it’s frustrating that nobody seems to care about how wasteful and futile the Gideon enterprise is. The only way a modicum of outrage over the Gideons could be generated in the media here would be to denounce them for producing dirty big “carbon footprints”.
@decrepitoldfool:
Heh. We had the same thing happen at my campus last year. Rather than being shamed into taking a bible, I told them I already have three. Hey, it’s true. I just didn’t mention I use two of them for drink coasters. Don’t worry, they’re the cheap kind; I wouldn’t do that to a really nice book, even if it is the damn bible.
“it’s frustrating that nobody seems to care about how wasteful and futile the Gideon enterprise is.”
The more wasteful and futile, the more they’ll get into it. Remember how big these guys are on martyrdom.
Being a vicious bible quoter back fired on me last month when my nephew had his child baptized. It’s mother was cooing all that coo crap to me and bragging about the numbers of people that showed up. I took her jab seriously and quipped back, ‘Nice, now that it’s baptized you can eat it.’ She sucked in her breath in & I said “Leviticus 26:29”. Later that night we got call after call from relatives demanding apologies and banning me from any family affair EVER.
Teens on the other hand just love my bible quoting, all the nasty sex stuff shocks and delights them. ;)
Patricia @78,
Nice, now that it’s baptized you can eat it
Look, I’m sorry, I know it’s your family and all, but I simply cannot sit still and read that sort of thing without reacting. No matter what you might think, you do not have to wait for an infant to be baptised before you eat it.
Mind you now, pre-baptism you wouldn’t want to roast or grill it — chances are it’d be dry and stringy, and there’s your Sunday dinner ruined. But pan-fried or, best of all, braised in a vegetable broth for three or four hours over low heat: boy howdy, mmm mmm good!
In fact, I’m down to cellar now to clone some embryonic stem cells out of the big jar in the deep freezer. A brace of early second-trimester foeti will be just the thing between the oysters and the goose for Christmas dinner.
Mrs. Tilton – Oh gosh, there I go showing what an old school hillbilly I am. Had no idea that waiting for baptism was just a superstition! ;)
Imagining a school lunch room with equal time for PZ’s Ilk to spout scripture has had me smiling all day!
Re:
And, for the record, I only went to church with a Bible, some extra-strength cleaning fluid and drinking glasses. No disabled persons were involved.
Jason, you do know that certain flavors of Kool-Aid or Gatorade are the same color as Windex…
You know what to do!
Now, how about handing out “Danzig” albums on school property?
Better yet, yell out “BIBLE FIGHT!” and see what ensues.
When I was a kid (maybe early 60’s) we got bibles at school. I suppose they were Gideons. I didn’t really take notice. My mom told me and my sibs to take them back because they weren’t our kind (Catholic–don’t say anything. It’s not my fault). I don’t remember it as being a big deal. We must have been in a laid back community (mid Michigan). Once in High School I went to school with Ash Wednesday ash on my forehead (you’re not supposed to wash it off, just let it go away naturally). A few kids asked about it and that was that.
Why not just form the ‘Enkians’ who distribute good secular texts. The Age of Reason has already been mentioned, but the list is long (and why not include some good fiction as well!)
Lots of classic texts are in the public domain and can be printed up at low cost. Authors also routinely donate books to good charities (David Brin sends books to deployed soldiers for example).
While we are at it though, it is a school after all. Why not actually distribute actually relevant books? The lit is pretty easy, science and math may involve finding (or forming) a group to write open-source ‘supplemental’ texts.
If you eat it before it’s baptized it goes to Hell. Granted, it’s only the first level. None of the torture or misery. Just sort of sitting around waiting for the cable guy for all eternity.
Has anybody read about Texas teachers being allowed to bring guns to school?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080825/ap_on_re_us/gun_toting_teachers;_ylt=AlwIG3c4i1alLlcg.0E_6wRH2ocA
BIBLES AND GUNS, BABY!!!
Now, what did Obama say in Pennsylvania last spring?
I remember the only time someone gave me a Bible was the day I entered the Navy. I don’t remember what I did with it, but I know I never read it. Hell, I was raised a Catholic and good Catholics know that the Pope knows everything; so, why read a Bible!
Atheism is good.
It is especially good when murder, suicide, pedophilia or any number of debaucheries are contemplated and perpetrated.
What a sad group of cretins.
All with no hope.
Never mind the fact that it’s religidiots doing it, but strange adults approaching schoolchildren just gives me the creeps. If that were my kid (if I had one) they would hear no end of grief from me.
I think one of the most entertaining days for me as a kid was when a couple of Jehovah’s Witnesses came knocking and my older brother (who was perhaps 10 at the time…I think I was 8 and my younger brother was 6) was having trouble getting them to leave. My mom had hopped over to the neighbor’s house for some reason for just a few minutes and when she came back and saw that these people were pestering us with no adult present ohhhh boy did she flip her shit! It was hilarious! :)
Anyway, I think that they should be prevented from approaching children without adult supervision. Proselytizing unsolicited to children just seems wrong to me. I’m sure it’s not illegal, but it should definitely be frowned upon and any parent who does not like it shouldn’t be afraid to speak against them. And to their face. And in front of their kids (who I hope will be as amused as I was).
Col. Nathan Jessup,
Why do you feel the need to come here and spew your hate? I recommend psychiatric help.
Dear Col. Sanders:
Atheism is good.
It is especially good when murder, suicide, pedophilia or any number of debaucheries are contemplated and perpetrated.
You do know that these are the bailiwick of the godly, no?
What a sad group of cretins.
Describing the religious again, eh, colonel?
Thanks, Col., maybe some day you’ll be a fast-food mascot.
It appears that the good colonel is unaware of the practices of the Roman Catholic Church when he ascribes pedophilia to atheists.
I live near Wheaton, IL (the Protestant Vatican). My response when accosted by Evangelicals has long been the same.
My Q: So you believe that the bible is literally true?
A: Yes
Q: So you are a Roman Catholic?
A: Wha?
Me: Well, at the last supper didn’t christ say of peter, “On this rock I found my church?”
A: Yes
Q: Didn’t peter go to Rome and found what became the Roman Catholic Church?
This is usually the end of the discussion. Or the response is, “that’s a metaphor, its not literally true!” QED
aside from the fact that this very obviously is unnecessary entanglement of church and state, i have things to state.
the first is an issue with the logic of the AU. what of those students who are christian, and have already swiped a copy of the gideons’ bible from a hotel room, or simply have enough bibles as it is? surely, there’d be a lot of christians refusing to take free bibles with the knowledge that the bibles are aimed at potential conversions. why take something when someone else might need it more? so it doesn’t stand that the atheists will necessarily be mocked. “i already have one, thanks!” is certainly a viable excuse.
the second is that i really am all for reading the bible. it’s an interesting library of books, and if more people read it (and carefully) there’s a be a lot less religious silliness in this country. also, they say study of the bible is the surest route to atheism.
I had almost forgotten how to fold the pigasus. I would like to sit at a table with the Gideons, calmly tear the pages out of their filthy book, and fold flying pigs. Leviticus pigasus.
Sigh. I can tell that this blog is full of atheists. You don’t have the slightest idea what you are talking about. You need to read your bible more.
As Leviticus clearly indicates, whether children are baptized or not has nothing to do with when you eat them. The baptism claim is a Catholic tradition and true biblical literalists know it is incorrect.
You can only eat your babies when you disobey god and are angry at him. God is merciful, can’t you tell. In fact, if you don’t like how merciful he his, he will make you eat your kids whether you want to or not.
Contrary to atheist claims, god likes girls as well as boys and you can eat either or both genders. Apparently god likes dogs, cats, pigs, and shellfish much better than human children since they are on the Do Not Eat Ever List.
Bunch of ignorant scientists. I bet you don’t even know when you are supposed to breed with your relatives.
Sorry, you have atheists confused with Catholic priest child rapers, televangelists, and fundie Death Cultists. You also left out the constant threats to kill people that sometimes result in a few or a few million dead people.
Ah. So the rumors are true: The military has been taken over by christian fundamentalist morons.
God save us.
I’m starting to get really tired of this state- and municipal-sponsored religion. First it was “I believe” license plates, and now this. “Of course we’re not promoting religion. We’re just allowing the Gideons to hand out bibles to students during lunch hour so they will have the opportunity to accept Christ and avoid ROASTING IN HELL FOREVERRRRRRR!!!!!!!–but we’re not promoting religion.”
All these Bible quotes flying around makes me a little ill.
Just think, God kisses other men’s adolescent virgin wives with that mouth.
This is fun.I need to get me a bible,havent touched one for 30 years !
And who the hell are the Gideons?
To think that any school principal would let a bunch of cretins intending to give out religious pamphlets to schoolchildren onto their property would seem unthinkable anywhere Ive ever lived.
PZ,
Lately your life has been a source of both entertainment and encouragement to me. It’s not just bibles btw, any kind of information that is not on the state curriculum should be thought of by students as trash, propaganda, and laughable. It’s absolutely criminal that they pick on young kids who cannot readily think for themselves how blatant this propaganda is, and how bad it is.
I’m not so sure they should blindly accept state sponsored information either. We really need to be teaching critical thinking to children, anything outside that is questionable on face value.
I’m glad that you and others are here and telling it like it is. When I grew up, being an atheist was not something you did, just like being gay wasn’t. Now, the homosexuals have come out of the closet. It’s time that atheists did something similar. You should not be forced to be a republican, nor should you be forced to believe in non-existent gods.
+ Dennett
I like the whole equal treatment angle. There’s a Sikh martial arts gym nearby. Mybe if the Gidens get to hand out bibles, the Sikhs can show how they worship God by mastering the talwar and buckler. Heck, the final initiation ritual is a guy smearing syrup on your neck with a sword. How cool is that? Kids will love it.
But seriously. The gideons has a custom of giving out little red new testaments to fifth graders at my schools. When I was a young un Mao had just died ant I saw a long documentary about his life. My mom and I went to pick up my older brother at elementary school on the day the gideons came. I saw all the fifth graders walking out with their little red bibles and concluded that Mao must have visited my brother’s school.
Another UK resident here – further to the comment at #75 I had a Gideon New Testament given to me at age 12 and it lived in my blazer pocket right up till the day I left school. It had no affect on my atheism whatsoever. I have a large hardback new testament at home right now. If you have an interest in history it is part of our culture. Would exposing children to Shakespeare make them likely to believe in Oberon and Puck? The Gideon is just a symptom. Over here we have had years of compulsory morning religious services in schools and lessons in religion as part of the curriculum, and as a nation we are much less god-bothering. Maybe the atheists always coming top of the class in RE has something to do with it – and yet on the web we are often told that our atheism is down to ignorance of religious faith. Of course comment threads and reality are non-overlapping magisteria.
Well of course we do. Coming top of RE requires religious knowledge. Faith is the opposite of knowledge, so how can we know what it’s like to be gullible and believing on face value when we just know too darn much?