The Ex-Muslims Forum on Twitter points out a murderous little Q&A from the Luton Islamic Centre in which the A is yes indeed apostates must be killed.
Q: Many Muslim groups in the US, like CAIR, MAS, MPAC, said that since there is no
compulsion in Islam, how can the Afghan government execute the apostate… your website
said that the apostate should be executed, this is not from Islam only, but in Christian times
(pre-Islam)… And… what about a person who might have left Islam and then came back, and
died Muslim…if s/he had been killed the first time, s/he would not have had the chance to
return to Islam… of course ultimately who dies as Muslim is Allah’s Will…and it is already
written in His Book.
No no no that’s not the right way to look at it at all. It’s Allah’s Will that Allah’s submitters should kill people who decide they don’t like Islam after all.
A: I do not have knowledge if these organizations actually took this position. Nevertheless, the
answer is still clear and simple.Allah said in the Quran, {There is no compulsion in religion};
[2:256]. This is the explanation on this Ayah found in my book, Holy Wars…Crusades…Jihad,
“Ibn Kathir said, ‘This Ayah means, ‘Do not force anyone to embrace the religion of Islam,
because Islam is clear, plain and its evidences and proofs are indisputable. Therefore, it is not
necessary that anyone be forced to embrace it. Rather, those whom Allah guides, opens their
hearts and enlightens their minds towards Islam, will embrace it with knowledge. Those whom
Allah prevents their hearts and seals their hearing and sight from accepting Islam, will not
benefit from being forced to embrace it’; Tafsir ibn Kathir, Vol. 1, Pg., 416.’” Thus, this Ayah is
about those who are not Muslim: Muslims are not allowed to force those who are not Muslim
–to begin with- to embrace Islam. What does this have to do at all with the punishment of
those who are Muslim but commit the crime of abandoning Islam, thus, becoming non-Muslim
after they had been Muslim? The opinion mentioned in the question is amazing: it indicates
the type of ‘knowledge’ that prevails among many Muslims these days. It seems that the
reason behind using this sick logic to invalidate Islamic Law, is to suit modern-day disbelievers,
who will stop at nothing less than the complete corruption of Islam…
Aha, so that’s what it means. “There is no compulsion in religion” means you mustn’t compel outsiders. Insiders, on the other hand, must not attempt to become outsiders again. Insiders, once inside, may not leave. They are not allowed to change their minds. They are not allowed to try it and find they dislike it, and so exit. No. Doing that is a crime, and they must be killed.
These are two completely different topics: forcing non-Muslims to embrace Islam vs. the
punishment, carried out by the Islamic State, of those who were Muslim but committed the
crime of abandoning Islam.
Outsiders can be left to their fate – Allah will chew them up and spit them out when Allah gets good and ready. Insiders on the other hand – them we get to kill.
If we follow this silly reasoning, then what about the remainder of
the Hadeeth that legislates this law, as al-Bukhari and Muslims reported it from Allah’s
Prophet, who said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be
worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: In
Qisas (Law of Equity) for murder; a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse; and
the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.” Should we also abandon
the punishment for the adulterer, since ‘there is no compulsion in religion’? Should we also abandon other parts of the Islamic Penal code if the offense does not really harm others, such
as abandoning Prayer, drinking, cursing the Prophet, salla-llahu `alaihi wa-sallam, etc., since
‘there is no compulsion in religion’?
Yes, you should. Thank you for asking. Yes, you should stop punishing people for abandoning prayer or “cursing the prophet” or having sex outside marriage. Yes.
Muslims should be strong and stand behind every part of their Law, if they seek
Allah’s Help and Support that is. As for the second part of the question, about if we leave the
apostate un-punished he might go back to Islam, then what is stopping him from doing so
before being killed, even if to become a hypocrite? What if he does not repent in the future
and tempts others who have weak hearts and faith to follow him, should we stand idle while
whole segments of the Muslim Society becomes non-Muslim?
Yes, you should. That would be fabulous.
See also explanation here:
http://islamqa.info/en/20327
It basically amounts to: well, if it was up to us, we’d let you live. But that Allah, he’s always right and HE wants you dead. So we have to kill you.”
It’s well worth browsing the site. There’s some downright bizarre stuff, including a Pokemon fatwa. I’m not joking.
See also explanation here:
http://islamqa.info/en/20327
It basically amounts to: “well, if it was up to us, we’d let you live. But that Allah, he’s always right and HE wants you dead. So we have to kill you.”
It’s well worth browsing the site. There’s some downright bizarre stuff, including a Pokemon fatwa. I’m not joking.
Imagine if a bowling league or a knitting club tried to insist that the penalty for quitting was death.
On the other hand, I could see Verizon salivating if they could get a clause like that in their cellphone contracts..
And who says they’re any different than christians? It’s the same duplicity you see in rabit anti-abortionists: publicly they say “Killing doctors and bombing abortion clinics is wrong”, but it’s another story behind closed doors.
The issue isn’t the willingness to commit violence. It’s whether the wannabe perpetrator is willing to face legal consequences if caught and arrested. For the most rabid fundamentalists, that’s not a problem.
His logic fails in the end. Since he has stated that a person becomes a muslim because, “..those whom Allah guides, opens their
hearts and enlightens their minds towards Islam, will embrace it with knowledge. Those whom
Allah prevents their hearts and seals their hearing and sight from accepting Islam, will not
benefit from being forced to embrace it’”, it follows that becoming or staying muslim isn’t a human choice. Therefore, it isn’t a matter of weak or strong faith and one person can not influence another beyond the will of allah. It is literally impossible to have committed a crime by having believed and no longer believing in islam.
If murder and sexual “misconduct” arise in the same way, then they can also not be considered crimes from the religious point of view and to the degree that he is equating these three, I don’t see a way around that.
LMFTFY: Allah Swill.
Well, it’s a good thing that Christianity is so much better than Islam. The Bible doesn’t condemn apostates to death. Unless they, you know, talk about it. Deuteronomy 13:6-11. I mean, if they talk about it, they deserve to die. Obviously. Islam is totally off the rails for making it about just being apostate. How ridiculous!
Let us not forget just how Talibanesque the Puritans of the American colonies were:
Don’t think for a MOMENT that a great many of our own Christians would not eagerly return to this Puritan norm or worse if we allowed it.
You mean there isn’t one?
Well, it’s a good thing that Christianity is so much better than Islam. The Bible doesn’t condemn apostates to death. Unless they, you know, talk about it. Deuteronomy 13:6-11. I mean, if they talk about it, they deserve to die. Obviously. Islam is totally off the rails for making it about just being apostate. How ridiculous!
All four schools of Islamic ‘jurisprudence’ call for the death penalty for apostasy, and they base that view on Islam’s core texts.
Executions for apostasy in the Islamic world are VERY real.
Islam’s exit door is labelled “death”.
There is no ‘compulsion’ of BELIEF. But there is lots of compulsion of obedience. Muslims are commanded to wage war against Kaffirs until they convert, or submit to paying tribute and accepting permanent slave status.
Rather, those whom Allah guides, opens their hearts and enlightens their minds towards Islam, will embrace it with knowledge. Those whom Allah prevents their hearts and seals their hearing and sight from accepting Islam, will not benefit from being forced to embrace it’
Sounds like the same pseudo-deterministic bullshit I’ve heard from many Christians, including our resident Calvinist Heddle: God moves and manipulates every decision everyone makes, God decides who “chooses” to embrace him, and who doesn’t…but those whom God predestines not to “choose” him, are predestined to go to Hell for not making the right “choice.”
This hateful authoritarian doctrine isn’t even internally consistent, let alone consistently applied.
As stated it does kind of make sense.
“There is no compulsion in religion.” If we assume religion is a category (Islam, Judaism, Christianity are within this category) then it follows that forcing people to shift faith is folly. But then, contemplating apostasy within the context of Islam, we shift from religion in general to Islam in particular. And within Islam apostasy justifies death. It is all very clear.
If this factor were widely understood it is clear that nobody in their right mind would chose to become a Muslim.
It is also clear that Islam seems to assume that a similar standard is applied within other religions. This describes a world where, given that most people simply accept the religion they were raised with, that either there is no actual choice, or, assuming one might be entirely free of religious affiliation without making a choice, that this choice is a singular event that can never be revoked, under pain of death.
If this factor were true and widely understood it is clear that nobody in their right mind would chose to have any religion. Because, once in, you can never get out.
Imagine a bejeweled coat. It is a really great looking coat. But it has a single catch, once you put it on you can never take it off. Do you put on the coat?
Apparently, Allah is not all that great. In fact, He appears to be rather puny because He needs so many weak, imperfect humans to carry out His wishes for Him.
If that isn’t scary enough, look what this very same cleric has just created in Richmond, Virginia:
In Virginia, a Muslim cleric who endorses the murder of apostates by ISIS opens children’s Islamic school, radio station, and community center .