[Thunderdome]
This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.
Status: UNMODERATED; Previous thread
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.
Status: UNMODERATED; Previous thread
Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞:
December 5th, 2012 at 10:39 pm
So how long before the next troll?
dougthebox:
December 5th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
The latest news reports (e.g. the presidential election results, republican compromises on the budget, etc.) suggest that some semblance of reason is creeping back into American politics.
Hopefully this will spread to Canada, where we have perhaps the most frighteningly right wing government we have ever had.
Our current Prime Minister is a right wing ideologue from Alberta (aka Canada’s Texas), who is a devoted acolyte of the Bush/Cheney school of government.
Currently our government is trying to use back-door measures to re-open the abortion debate, recently tried (unsuccessfully) to shut down a (drug) harm-reduction program in Vancouver, and one of our cabinet ministers, when asked about evolution, replied that he did not want to get into a religious discussion.
I never thought I would consider moving to the United States just to get away from all the right-wing crazy.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 5th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
If you’re looking to get away from right wing craziness, you don’t want to be headed here (U.S.) – set your sights on NZ or Oz. Or anywhere that isn’t the states.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 5th, 2012 at 10:52 pm
Tony:
What, Ragarth isn’t enough for ya?
Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞:
December 5th, 2012 at 10:56 pm
Caine @3:
Seconded!
@4:
Meh. I see him more as a self absorbed twit more than a troll. YMMV.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 5th, 2012 at 11:06 pm
@ Tony
Snakker ee Norsk?
Henrik Ibsen (1884):
Translation:
Kagato:
December 5th, 2012 at 11:07 pm
Hey PZ, could we get artist credits or source links for the thumbnails?
PZ Myers:
December 5th, 2012 at 11:28 pm
That one came from here.
LykeX:
December 5th, 2012 at 11:29 pm
So, have they compromised? I haven’t really been following that, but what I heard most recently, the Republican idea of compromise was “we get everything we want and you get to suck it up.”
John Morales:
December 5th, 2012 at 11:36 pm
theophontes, you made me think of Itchycoo Park .
doubtthat:
December 5th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
No, Republicans aren’t compromising, they’re not even close. They’re opening proposal was worse (more cuts to SS and Medicare, MAGIC savings through the closing of undisclosed loopholes) than the automatic shitstorm that hits if we go over the cliff.
They are dumb fucking assholes that are simultaneously arguing that the deficit is the biggest problem in the world, but we can’t raise taxes because of growth. We need to contract, but we can’t contract!!
Fucking stupid shit assholes. And the Dems are only slightly better. Why anyone thinks doing the same thing England just did will lead to different results is an idiot.
We are in a liquidity trap. Aggregate demand has crashed. There’s a massive surplus on the supply side (record corporate profits as a % of GDP) WE NEED TO BE SPENDING MORE NOT LESS.
doubtthat:
December 5th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
their
doubtthat:
December 5th, 2012 at 11:51 pm
Maybe the dome isn’t the place for me. There’s too much freedom. I haven’t been that incoherent in a while.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 12:11 am
@ doubtthat
{enter dancing tardigrades dressed in bondage gear}
*CRACK*
In your cage doubtthat!!!
*CRACK*
Increase output!!!!
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 6th, 2012 at 12:24 am
Theophontes:
I can send in the rats…
chigau (無):
December 6th, 2012 at 12:25 am
dougthebox #2
The problem with the current Prime Minister of Canada is NOT that he is from Alberta.
It is that he is an Evangelical Christian.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 1:34 am
@ John Morales
Be carefull, you may encourage an Ibsen mashup…
{the dancing tardigrades shed their whips, paddles and leathers and don once more their robes, lining up again, stage left as The Choir ™ }
{All in Unison}
At leve er — krig med trolde
i hjertets og hjernens hvælv.
{a *click-clack* sound is heard as someone cracks open a frosty.}
Om jeg hamrer eller hamres,
ligefuldt så skal der jamres!
{sound of match being struck, a huge puff of smoke envelopes the choir}
Sannhet på slangens hode skal tråkke…
{*fart*}
Jeg har en sånn umåtelig lyst til å si: død og pine.
{choir breaks up as the tambourines are distributed, the dancing tardigrades start a wild cavort. theophontes casts down baton and leaves in a huff}
[lyrics:
]
chigau (無):
December 6th, 2012 at 1:45 am
theophontes
You have way too much time on your
handstentaclesappendages.sparks:
December 6th, 2012 at 1:46 am
Dave Brubeck passed away this morning (12/5).
Shit.
Thanks for the great jazz Mr. Brubeck. You will be missed.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 1:48 am
@ Caine
Yes!!!
(Not a moment too soon. Pissed-off punters have gathered pitchforks and firebrands and are persuing theophontes down the cobbled back alleys of The Thunderdome…)
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 1:52 am
@ chigau
I have minions minioning as I type. I look as if I am very busy.
@ sparks
Dave Brubeck
*gives clenched tentacle salute*
chigau (無):
December 6th, 2012 at 1:58 am
ohohoh
sparks #19
sadsadsad
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 2:27 am
@ chigau/sparks
His son, Darius, was at my varsity when I studied in Durban (South Africa). The whole family are brilliant musicians.
John Morales:
December 6th, 2012 at 2:33 am
theophontes, you should avoid minionettes from the planet Minion.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 3:04 am
@ John Morales
{clicks linky}
That sounds like the fun park we built on the outskirts of Thunderdome. (Chthon consists of a maze of office cubicles. There .DWG and .PNG files are exchanged for food.)
SQB:
December 6th, 2012 at 3:08 am
SQB:
December 6th, 2012 at 3:08 am
Ow, crap.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 6th, 2012 at 3:10 am
sparks@19,
And he was only 91 – a mere stripling. The last couple of days have seen the deaths of Elisabeth Murdoch, 103 (mother of the more famous Rupert); Oscar Neimeyer, 104 (architect, and designer of Brasilia); and Besse Cooper, 116 (world’s oldest known living person before her death: Dina Manfredini, 115, succeeds to the title).
What’s killing all these people off at once, when they’ve stayed alive so long? Sinister! ;-)
John Morales:
December 6th, 2012 at 3:34 am
Nick,
Well, it certainly ain’t Dexter.
carlie:
December 6th, 2012 at 3:57 am
I see what you did there.
F [disappearing]:
December 6th, 2012 at 4:08 am
Nick Gotts
Holy shit, I know people who operate with that mechanism installed. It was fine all this time, why would it break/leak/fail now? /headpalm
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 6:58 am
@ John Morales
Itchycoo Park
(Tar De narkotika fra et gennemsnitsmenneske, så tar De lykken fra ham med det samme.)
ajb47:
December 6th, 2012 at 7:00 am
Nick Gotts @28
It’s Obamacare’s Death Panels kicking in.
vaiyt:
December 6th, 2012 at 8:26 am
All the cool old guys from when I was a kid are passing away. ):
joachim:
December 6th, 2012 at 8:27 am
Wait until ObamaCare takes full effect.
With the money taken away from Medicare, and the limitations on “extraordinary” treatments, all the old people will really need is a nice funeral plan
joachim:
December 6th, 2012 at 8:28 am
Hey, this is funny…
ATHEIST spells EATSHIT
LykeX:
December 6th, 2012 at 8:31 am
Yeah, well… only if you switch the letters around.
Bet you feel foolish now, huh?
anteprepro:
December 6th, 2012 at 9:13 am
Looks like we’ve got a real Mitthead over here.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 9:16 am
@ joachim
I’m this hot jackal.
What does that spell … ?
or this: Rakish if smooth ejaculator. ?
Examples may be multiplied with little effort.
Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it!:
December 6th, 2012 at 9:24 am
Troll gets 0.5/5 for content (because of decent spelling and grammar), 0/5 for effort.
Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor:
December 6th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Marcus Aurelius, who you may remember as the old guy in the movie _Gladiator_, wrote:
“Nothing has such power to broaden the mind as the ability to investigate systematically and truly all that comes under thy observation in life.”
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 9:48 am
@ anteprepro #38
I wonder where the whole republican attitude comes from. Hell, the ‘Merkin world view in general. Then I was reading about education in Finland (founded 95 years ago today):
That bit, growing up in an environment of constant “competition and comparison” may well point to something. If that becomes internalised, one will get to a point where one cannot even see the problems anymore.
Society might come apart at the seems, but the individuals continue to see everything through the lense of “each to their own” rather than looking out for society as a whole. The blind spot is grown and re-entrentched with every passing generation. One template, one measure to manufacture individualists (such as USA) as opposed to a system of developing each individual to their own personal excellence – in order to build a winning society for all (Finland).
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 9:56 am
@ Menyambal
A life-attitude stolen from the Greeks.
ajb47:
December 6th, 2012 at 9:58 am
I’d like to assure everyone I was attempting humor with my Death Panels comment. I didn’t know someone with a lack of reading comprehension would come in at the same time and post a similar comment and actually be serious about it.
myeck waters:
December 6th, 2012 at 10:05 am
Not to worry, ajb47. Idiots like joachim are a dime a dozen around here. If you’d snarked about elevatorgate it would’ve activated someone else.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 6th, 2012 at 10:13 am
@ SGBM
Mrs Snake & S.O.
@ All
Our Ebil Oberlawd ™ has been around for millenia! ( Linky )
billygutter01:
December 6th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
Ah, that sucks. I guess I know what I’ll be listening to tonight. *sigh*
When I read “(12/5)” my brain tried to understand that as a time signature instead of a date.
Whoa. Not sure if that’s indicative of too much coffee or not enough.
nms:
December 6th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
I’d say the problem our current PM is that his party is allowed to do whatever it wants even though fewer than a quarter of Canadians voted for it.
I guess that’s not really a problem with him specifically, though.
consciousness razor:
December 6th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Bad move for your brain.
It would be playable as 12/8, with the new beats 8:5 to the original. (But that’s a hard fucking polyrhythm…. This is 5:4, but you have to divide the quarters to get 5:8.)
Or if I did the math right, you could do it as 9/4 plus an extra 60% of a quarter note. If that helps.* We could count that as close enough for swing.
*It doesn’t help.
Not enough. It is in the nature of coffee that you can never have enough.
Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor:
December 6th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
Sir Thomas Massey-Massey stands up in the English Parliament and says, “England is not a Catholic country. We should not refer to the holy day of Christ’s birth as ‘Christ-mass’, as the Catholics do. Rather, we should call it ‘Christ-tide’, in the Protestant, and good old English, tradition.”
Somebody else stands up and says, “Well, then, Sir Thomas Massey-Massey, should we start calling you Sir Thotide Tidey-Tidey?”
cm's changeable moniker:
December 6th, 2012 at 7:14 pm
It’s an Americanism. In the rest of the world it’s 5/12. Ba-da-da-ba-da [etc.]. Much simpler. ;-)
Ogvorbis:
December 6th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
And now I’m wondering what a fifth note would look like. A filled-in ball with a staff leading to a liquor bottle?
anthonyrosa:
December 6th, 2012 at 10:17 pm
Okay, random question for the thunderdome:
You know the statement about how, when people make jokes or talk about things like their misogyny or rape, the people who are ACTUALLY going to go out and do it interpret those as actual support for what they’re doing? They assume they’re allies?
Well, I was trying to find some data to back this up, whether statements by people or some sort of survey, or anything like that. It would be great to have for if I ever got into an argument with a reasonable person who just hadn’t heard it before, and is resistant in the way a reasonable person can be upon learning something new and uncomfortable. In any case, I went back and read the original -and very enlightening- piece about this as well, and… yeah. My google-fu is failing me. Does anyone have an idea of where I should look for that kind of data?
John Morales:
December 7th, 2012 at 1:50 am
Americans don’t just use archaic measures, they also are perverse at writing dates.
Given that a year is divided into months and months are divided into days, it makes sense to write dd/mm/yy (or yy/mm/dd) for a date, but it’s counter-intuitive to write mm/dd/yy.
(It’s much like writing mm/ss/hh rather than hh/mm/ss for time, given that an hour is divided into minutes and minutes are divided into seconds)
chigau (無):
December 7th, 2012 at 2:25 am
anthonyrosa #53
Do you want to rephrase the “question”?
—-
John Morales
re: date format
I have popped more than a few brain blood vessels trying to convince people that this is important.
Beatrice:
December 7th, 2012 at 2:42 am
John Morales & chigau,
Agreed.
Gen, Uppity Ingrate.:
December 7th, 2012 at 2:52 am
John Morales, 54 – That’s totally one of my favourite pet peeves. I can never be sure wtf date is meant unless the number mentioned is >12.
We hates it, preshussssss!
Gen, Uppity Ingrate.:
December 7th, 2012 at 2:57 am
Anthonyrosa
Try the Social Justice Link Roundup, handily linked in the sidebar. Check under the heading “Rape jokes and other sexist humour” to start with.
Or start with this, taken from there:
* The Enjoyment of Sexist Humor, Rape Attitudes, and Relationship Aggression in College Students
* Effects of exposure to sexist humor on perceptions of normative tolerance of sexism
* More Than “Just a Joke”: The Prejudice-Releasing Function of Sexist Humor
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 3:10 am
date +%s
John Morales:
December 7th, 2012 at 3:35 am
ॐ, well before digital computers, astronomers used the ‘Julian date’ to simplify date arithmetic.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 3:52 am
Being born after 1970, I have a limited supply of fucks.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 3:55 am
Seriously though, I hate the hell out of Google because they still* use Julian dates for archive searches.
*still isn’t even the right word; they never should have started in the first place
anthonyrosa:
December 7th, 2012 at 4:38 am
To Gen, Uppity Ingrate:
Hey, thanks for the links! That was the sort of thing I was looking for, I was just having a brain-fart and for some reason just could not come up with a way to phrase it to make my Google search actually find what I wanted.
I really appreciate the help, that stuff helps tremendously.
Beatrice:
December 7th, 2012 at 7:42 am
StevoR
You are a self-centered, hateful little fuck. Do you think everything revolves around you and we should all run around on any given thread to cater to your wish to discuss how evil (EVIL, I tell you) those Muslims are? No need to answer that, you’ve already said so right here in the part I quoted, as well as multiple times before.
Rutee Katreya:
December 7th, 2012 at 7:58 am
Why calling for genocide and constant racism is okay, but being a ‘boring troll’ isn’t, is still lost on me.
Beatrice:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:04 am
Rutee Katreya
It’s not ok. I’m not sure why we’re all going along with the “StevoR might be educated if we only try hard enough” hypothesis.
I was mostly for restricting StevoR to Thunderdome, but it would probably be best if he’s banned altogether.
StevoR:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:08 am
Quite a few nasty and deluded bullies here seem to be addressing some strawperson of their own making but wrongly addressed by my username demonising, othering and bullying me as well as failing to actually read and comprehend the nuances in what I’m actually saying.
Well, I AM NOT THIS STRAWPERSON you have falsely fabricated out of your hate on for me.
This strawperson bears absolutely no resemblance to the real live individual person that I really am.
To be clear read this – and reread, re-re-read and repeat aloud 100 times if that’s what it takes to sink in for you :
I, StevoR, do NOT advocate or support racism.
I, StevoR, do NOT advocate or support genocide.
I, StevoR, accepts that Muslims are human beings.
I, StevoR, object to the way the Islamic religious ideology brainwashes and fucks up Muslims and turns them into Homicide-suicide bombing terrorist fanatics. (Ok that’s just some – too many – but not *all* Muslims granted.)
I, StevoR am just saying that we need to fight terrorists just as much as we need to fight extremist republicans and MRAs. Plus that, like every nation on the planet, Israel has the right to vigorously, militarily defend itself and protect its civilians from genocidal bigots such as Hamas, Al Quaida and Hezbollah.
What about any of this is supposedly racist exactly?
Want to claim I’m a racist?
Then prove it.
Show us all one comment from me – just one – where I specifically claim that people should be judged based on their skin colour NOT their actions or behaviour or ideas.
I think you will find you simply cannot do this.
Note that Muslims are NOT a race nor do all Muslims share a common skin colour nor are most “brown-skinned people” Muslim. In fact, most brown skinned people (for the precious little that it matters) are actually Hindu (Indians) or Catholic (South American) in their belief systems.
Now I freely admit I’m not perfect and have gotten carried away at times, often posting drunk and emotional and overtired. I’ll admit I’m a flawed human in some respects who has been known to get things wrong from time to time. I’ve said as much before and apologised for that when appropriate.
If you can find one instance – just one – where I specifically stated that people should be damned on the basis of the colour of their skins – then I’ll apologise and take whatever reasonable penalty you demand of me.
In return I expect that everyone who has lied about me, abusing and insulting me with ridiculous offensive and totally inapplicable labels such as “racist” will admit that they got me wrong and retract their words, never repeating them and apologises to me as well if I prove them wrong by them being unable to meet this challenge.
So, golden rule, folks; a lot of you have been badly wrong and wa-aay Over The Top in some of your fallacious, hurtful and totally wrong character assessments about me – now is your chance to rethink, reconsider and admit that.
StevoR:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:18 am
@64. Beatrice :
Wrong – and I’ll note you failed to answer the questions I’ve put to you there.
No.
But when people call me false, offensive names and attempt to bully me then I’m going to call them out on it and why the fuck shouldn’t I?
Gee you sure do have trouble with reading comprehension don’t you?
I think the thunderdome idea stinks. I think it encourages and empowers bullies and ganging up on those who disagree.
Mostly actually I agree with most of what people say here witha few exceptions. Maybe 80 % to 20 %.
I happen to disagree with many of you in concluding that this blog is a bit too soft on Islam & bit too hard on Israel. For that I get called, among a whole lot of other things a “nazi.” Well, go figure what the likely results of that sort of stupidity on some commenters part is.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:19 am
LIAR AND BULLSHITTER. YOUR OWN WORDS ADVOCATING KILLING SAY OTHERWISE.
QUIT LYING TO YOURSELF. ADMIT YOUR BIGOTRY. THEN, AND ONLY THEN, YOU CAN QUIT LYING TO US.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:20 am
They, like you, advocated a “final solution”.
StevoR:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:23 am
@ 70. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls :
The nazis tried to exterminate the Jewish people – just like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the like do.
Also no, I didn’t advocate a final solution – I advocated destroying a terrorist base.
StevoR:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:32 am
That’s destroying a terrorist base during wartime when it was actively firing rockets at innocent families when its side has launched the war needlessly and plans on committing genocide.
I would NOT bomb Gaza now when it is NOT doing that and would NOT have bombed the Fatah-run Palestinian cities that were NOT firing rockets at the time.
Having made that important clarification, I’m turning the computer off now, walking the dog and will return here tomorrow my time. Or maybe the next day.
Beatrice:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:40 am
I’m so sorry I failed to answer your question in a manner that would satisfy you.
I give this >.< much of a fuck.
Should I remind you of those comments about how you could most effectively kill everyone in Gaza? Yeah, I know, it's not evidence of your bigotry because you were just joking. Har har.
Shithead, you have already been given far more attention than you deserve. You have given enough evidence of your bigotry and it has been repeated to you enough times (just look at previous incarnation of Thunderdome).
Amphiox:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:45 am
Telling how StevoR calls the entirety of Gaza a terrorist base.
And it has the nerve to claim that it is not bigoted.
Telling how StevoR continues to IGNORE the fact that there is more than one way of defending oneself and more than one way of destroying terrorist bases. Some of those ways involve dropping bombs on innocent people and some of those ways do not, and yet StevoR continues to advocate and support the former.
And it has the nerve to claim that it is not a murderous bigot.
Telling how StevoR continues to use to standard racist claim that it cannot be directly quoted saying anything racist while ignoring the clear and obvious implication of racism and racist code terms in virtually everything it says on this subject.
And it has the nerve to claim that it is not a racist.
Does StevoR not remember the time I did a sentence by sentence comparison of its odious postings on one thread with the words of one Osama bin Laden’s speeches and found no significant differences in content or tone?
Utterly pathetic.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:55 am
I’m sure everyone will be waiting with bells on.
Amphiox:
December 7th, 2012 at 9:00 am
And yet of course that is EXACTLY what Israel did in this case and what StevoR is so eager to defend. Or has StevoR forgotten (or deliberately chosen NOT to remember) that the current flare-up was STARTED by Israel doing a targeting assassination of a Hamas Leader, at a time when rocket attacks were NOT being launched from Gaza to any significant degree and that ALL the subsequent rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas were in retaliation to this provocation?
Or that most independent analysts believe the Israeli’s intended, provoked and orchestrated the whole thing, as a means of 1) testing their own battle-readiness and the effectiveness of their previously untested missile defence system in preparation for potential hostilities with Iran, 2) testing the international reaction and response to the possibility of a first strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities, 3) demonstrating their own offensive capabilities to the Iranians and others in the surrounding Islamic countries who might get involved in the event of hostilities with Iran as a kind of pre-emptive warning, and 4) degrading Hamas’ existing weapons capabilities in the event of Hamas’ likely support of Iran in the event of Israeli-Iranian hostilities so that the burden of having to face two fronts of hostilities is reduced?
StevoR, pathetic liar, caught LYING once again.
Amphiox:
December 7th, 2012 at 9:02 am
Say what you will about Israel’s intentions in this most recent flare-up of hostilities (and arguments can indeed be made that their actions were not unreasonable given their circumstances with respect to Iran) but do NOT think that Israel was not the initial aggressor in this exchange.
Amphiox:
December 7th, 2012 at 9:07 am
Another rather telling Godwin by pathetic liar StevoR.
Point of fact, Hamas, Islamic jihad, and any number of other radical Islamic groups have NOT, and NEVER HAVE, tried to exterminate the Jewish people. They’ve talked about it, they haven’t ever done it or even begun to try. They’ve made war against Israel, and maybe they might have gone on to attempt genocide if they had won, but they didn’t win, so we don’t know if that rhetoric was truly serious (note that during WWII there were lots of voices in the US advocating for the extermination of the Japanese, but after winning the war, the US didn’t do that, didn’t even think about it).
All they’ve done on the genocide front is talk. Which puts them in exactly the same category as StevoR himself.
chigau (無):
December 7th, 2012 at 9:07 am
Why does the country of Israel exist?
Amphiox:
December 7th, 2012 at 9:10 am
When you see someone advocate or support dropping missiles into neighborhoods where known extremist republicans live, or planning the targeted assassinations of Thunderfoot and other MRAs, then we can take this pathetic statement seriously.
Amphiox:
December 7th, 2012 at 9:16 am
Ah yes. The oldest racist-apologetics trick in the book. The arbitrary redefinition of the term “racist” as self-servingly narrow as necessary to not technically qualify as one, oneself.
And the second oldest racist-apologetics trick in the book. To pretend that all the deliberate racist code-words previously used were in fact meant literally.
As well as the third oldest racist-apologetics trick in the book. The dishonest misrepresentation of the actual accusation (NO ONE actually ever criticized StevoR for “stating that people should be damned on the basis of the colour of their skins”) in order to deflect and distract from the real accusation.
And StevoR has the NERVE to pretend it isn’t a racist.
Utterly pitiful.
Ogvorbis:
December 7th, 2012 at 9:23 am
SteveoR:
Do you still advocate a preemptive war with Iran?
anteprepro:
December 7th, 2012 at 10:10 am
[Warning: To lazy to blockquote]
For those who might think that StevoR might not actually be racist, behold: An Introduction to Pharyngula’s StevoR
Wanna See Something thread:
“In these circumstances when we’re fighting a war it is NOT a crime to kill the enemy to jail and threaten them and their supporters with severe consequences for their waging war aimed at destroying us.
Because, y’know, war.”
[On Iran] “What if *they* are the one’s starting a war with us?
It may not be our choice. Affordable or not, desirable or not, it might well be a case of them attacking us.
Would you like and let that happen? Would you have the West surrender to Jihadist or Iranian theocratic Sharia rule?
Dammit, I didn’t want to argue this here but some of you are just so fucking blind to reality and think we live in some kind of wonderful ideal world that, sorry, we just don’t live in.
Research Al Quaida, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the like. How would deal with them? Be realistic. They don’t *want* peace – and nor does Iran. They and Iran want us all gone. Dead or converted. They won’t settle for less. They aren’t prepared to give up violence. How do you deal with that reality.”
Let us not get confused thread:
“@ 82. Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
I forget, do calls for genocide count as death threats?
No, death threats are targeted at individuals not groups.
It isn’t issuing a death threat for example to say that Al Quaida should be destroyed and prevented from ever threatening people again. Death threats also don’t usually apply when aimed at enemy forces during wartime.
Plus I didn’t call for genocide I called for self-defence and prevention of a genocide against well, the whole modern world really. especially the Western world and Israel. You, Nick Gotts are either badly confused and mistaken about what I actually said because of your own reading comprehension failure or are outright lying about me. Either is your fault not mine.
I have also repeatedly stated here that I oppose genocide and clarified a few comments I made when drunk and over-tired.”
“The West isn’t the side of this latest global war calling for genocide or demanding that everyone convert to their faith and accept what they demand.
…The Islamist Jihadists OTOH are not happy to let the rest of the globe alone. They want the whole planet to be ruled by a theocractic Caliph who imposes brutal Sharia law upon all of us. That this sick fantasy is impossible and futile and never going to happen in reality doesn’t, alas, prevent them from trying to make it happen anyhow because, well, their religion.”
“When Jihadists fighting us hide behind their own families and civilians as human shields well that’s the choice and consequence. Do we let them kill our children because we care more for theirs instead? It is a hard and horrible thing and Western militaries, incl. Israels, takes enormous care to avoid causing excessive collateral damage where-ever they can – as opposed to the Jihadists who always try to maximise collateral damage and kill innocents and propagandise any unintended casualties that do result.”
“Palestine isn’t a nation. It is an political idea and old provincial name going back to a colonial period when hardly anybody lived there -and a whole separate issue again.”
“I’m neither racist nor a warmonger.
Islam is an ideology – a religion – NOT a race.
Couldn’t give a shit about skin colour personally and “race” is biologically meaningless bullshit.
As for war mongering well, I’m not calling for any wars. Wish they weren’t happening.
But y’know, we are kinda at war in a few places now whether I or you want to accept that reality or not.
What do you suggest we do when confronted with Jihadist violence and Jihadist grups such as Al Quaeda, Hamas & the Taliban Surrender? Convert? Die? Or fight?
Take your pick.
Got another option? Go ahead, explain it – but will the Jihadists be so generous?”
“@333. Brownian
Oh, it’s not that bad for all immigrants. The white ones seem to have had a grand ol’ time.
You anti-white people are you?…
Actually from what I understand of history the Australian Aboriginals mostly died from diseases they had no immunity too like most indigneous groups in North and South America.
Now okay some white folks did some bad things -whilst many others approached things in a human and kind way buy the understanding of the time which is quite different to how we view things in this era.”
“Well, that’s *your* (erroneous) opinion and I think that’s very, very clearly ridiculously wrong.
Because a “phobia” is defined as an irrational fear.
When Islamist groups such as Al Quaeda, Hamas, Jemaah Islamiyya, etc .. are seriously trying to kill and convert the rest if the world being afraid or concerned about and opposed to them is entirely rational, logical and reasonable.
How much research have you done on terrorism and especially the Jihadists and what they want to do to and impose on everyone else?
I can assure you I treat everybody equally and fairly and compassionately in Real Life therefore your offensive accusation of bigotry is also totally wrong.”
Jesus Freakin’ Christ Obama thread:
“The United States didn’t start this fight. The Jihadists did. This war is what they want, want they got and on *their* fucken heads be it. “It” being whatever explosive fucking ordinance it takes to wipe those fuckers out and stop them killing us and others.
Do you want the USA to win or not?
Gotta be ruthless because, sure as fuck, the enemy are. Totally.
[...]
We gotta take some pretty horrible steps such as this one – not because we want to but because the alternative is worse.
Because our values, our way of life is better and deserves to survive and the consequences for so many other human lives outweight the loss of the few Afghanistani innocents caught upas collateral damage. I agree this sucks but I think that’s just how it is. Its what they’ve forced us to do.
Its Islam trying to murder or enslave us all and given those options (&, yes, that durn well is all we’re given! That’s reality, its sucks and wish it wasn’t but it is!), you fight to win or you surrender.
Surrender means conversion to Islam – the Taliban -Al Quaida variety. Means we impose Sharia law and a global fucking Caliphate upon everybody. Your wife, your daughters, your sons, your country. Forget women having the right to abortion – under Sharia law they couldn’t even drive a car or go outside unaccompanied. Imagine them all and yourself being Islamic, deprived and constricted and suffering so much. Imagine how badly that’d hurt the rest of Humanity and everybody’s future.
No other options. Sadly.
I say we fight.
With everything we have.
As ruthlessly as we need to which is totally.
Turn the Jihadists into fucken glass if we have to. Blast Afghanistan out of existence and into a radioactive sump below sea level if that’s what it takes. Their war and their choice not ours.
Just like a burglar who breaks into your home and threatens to rape your wife or you – you fucken well shoot ‘em dead if you have to!
And we do have to. It sucks and I wish we didn’t but we do.
De-islamicise the fucken planet!
Before they Islamicise it all and committ a far worse genocide. That we all know they intend to do.
Life or death, us or them. Sucks. But is reality.
Nuke ‘em.”
Somebody give that man a geography lesson thread:
“Correcting the record here :
I have *never* advocated genocide actually.
Defending ourselves by taking out the even more ruthless bad guys without (metaphorically – or for that matter literally) pulling punches who wish to comitt genocide against others isn’t the same thing!”
anteprepro:
December 7th, 2012 at 10:13 am
I found the second to last one (which is actually multiple posts) by courtesy of Walton in the “Thunderfoot, Check your e-mail” thread.
consciousness razor:
December 7th, 2012 at 11:29 am
There is no such thing as a “fifth note;” but if there were, I guess it could look like that. I would probably go with a bottle of vodka.
Instead, there are quintuplets, which are notated like triplets but with a “5″ instead. They can be basically any duration (relative to the tempo),* because they can be made up of notes of any duration.
*But not really. With standard notation, you can’t have any based on irrational (or complex) numbers, just ratios of whole numbers. And practically speaking, your tempo will never be something like q = 13π² bpm.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 11:46 am
Beatrice (or anyone who knows and is online now),
I’m curious. Where does the “As for Thunderdome” quote in #64 come from?
PZ Myers:
December 7th, 2012 at 11:46 am
Has anyone else noticed that when a troll stumbles into one of these threads and rapidly jacks up the comment count, when I close it and open a new one with a prominent link, these poor saps often get lost and can’t find the new thread? It’s like flunking a basic IQ test, every time.
Beatrice:
December 7th, 2012 at 11:49 am
sgbm,
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/03/southern-man/comment-page-1/#comment-506499
Sorry for not linking the relevant thread in that comment. Will remember next time.
(I grumbled about others not doing this, I know. Sorry.)
imkindaokay:
December 7th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Not enough to make up for his previous wankery, but the amazingatheist appears to have done a somewhat feminist video! (basic as it is) maybe progress is being made!
nms:
December 7th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Not just any joking, but “gallows humour“:
The phrase “gallows humour”, of course, originated from an apocryphal conversation during the French Revolution. When informed that the people were hungry and had no bread, Marie Antoinette is infamously said to have replied “lol just hang them all then”.
chigau (無):
December 7th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
PZ #87
Yes, indeedy.
What ever happened to scottyroberts?
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Ah, thanks Beatrice.
chigau (無):
December 7th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
The logo…
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 7th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
Everyone else would much rather you didn’t, you genocidal bigot.
Beatrice:
December 7th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
StevoR don’t care, StevoR don’t give a shit.
Amphiox:
December 7th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
One of the main defining properties of “gallows humor” is that the dark humor is directed inwards, at oneself or one’s peer group or at least something one is personally associated with, at least a little bit.
It is not gallows humor to make jokes about other people being bombed in a faraway land, while one sits comfortably in one’s comfy Australian home, waiting for the next Sidney Funnel-Web spider to jab a fang through one’s big toe (now that, coming from StevoR, would have been gallows humor).
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Well that was a bit surprising.
Prior to that Southern Man thread, I did not imagine that StevoR is racist against black people per se. Now I wonder.
Beatrice:
December 7th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
I already tried to explain gallows humor to StevoR, but he gave this brilliant answer.
Ogvorbis:
December 7th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
Here in the US, we call that Republican Humour.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Although, perhaps I ought to have wondered sooner, when he accused Brownian of being anti-white.
cm's changeable moniker:
December 7th, 2012 at 6:59 pm
Chopin’s big on 22-tuplets. Showoff.
(Op. 9, no. 1. IMSLP won’t let me link the score; grrr.)
— —
I thought you called it Family Guy? ;-)
cm's changeable moniker:
December 7th, 2012 at 7:02 pm
Oh, for fuck’s sake, am I being stupid tonight.
American Dad
I will now switch off the computer before I embarass myself further.
consciousness razor:
December 7th, 2012 at 7:28 pm
Ooh, that is delicious.
The 11-tuplet leading into it makes it sound even more slippery. Altogether, ignoring the bar lines, it’s basically a 33-tuplet. (!!!)
11:6 is pretty interesting. I don’t know if I’d ever write it. It’s definitely a showoff kind of move, but it all fits in the piece so perfectly. It would take a lot of practice for me to play it evenly (or oddly, I guess).
Here it is. :)
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 7th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
Again?
SteveoR comes here again to whine??!!
Is he a glutton for punishment?
I thought he hated it here.
Who the fuck does the racist asshat think he’s going to convince?
Thanks to some handy links provided in the last ‘Dome thread, I was able to see for myself that YES, SteveoR is racist. YES, he advocates genocide.
bobo:
December 7th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
speaking of tone trolls, this comments thread really upset me:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/2012/11/15/because-abortion-needs-to-be-explained-apparently/
the author of the article appeared to be tone trolling the other commenters – not something I would have expected on FTB
e.g. “be polite to forced birthers”
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 7th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
SGBM @97:
Wait.
What?
Anyone have a link to the comment he made (not that I need another reason to dislike the fucker)?
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 7th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
bobo:
In my time at FtB, I’ve discovered that the bloggers are a very diverse group. I don’t believe they’re all atheists. I *think* I’ve heard someone say they’re all feminists, but I’m not sure. It doesn’t surprise me that one would be tone trolling.
Rodney Nelson:
December 7th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
While I generally like Crommunist’s blogs, he has a couple of guest commentators, Brian Lynchehaun and HaifischGeweint, who I’m not fond of. As bobo noted in #105 Lynchehaun tone trolls his own threads. HaifischGeweint dislikes people disagreeing with him or asking for evidence for his claims. When there’s posts by either of them, I don’t bother looking at them.
Silentbob:
December 7th, 2012 at 9:26 pm
@ 105 bobo
I followed your link and – behold – the author has recanted.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Tony,
I’m referring to his obfuscation of the lyrics about Neil Young in Sweet Home Alabama. I’ve replied further down.
It’s not unambiguously damning. But it makes me wonder.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 7th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Has anyone else noticed Leon Trotsky near the end of this Men’s Wearhouse commercial?
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 7th, 2012 at 10:38 pm
Ah, my thanks SG :)
dysomniak, darwinian socialist:
December 7th, 2012 at 10:52 pm
@SG #110 BAAAAAhahahahahaaaaa
This is best best way to sum up my feeling about comrade trotsky via twelve second google image search:
http://imgur.com/r/anarchomemes/etDLB
dysomniak, darwinian socialist:
December 7th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
But I must admit, he had a good look.
consciousness razor:
December 7th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
I was wondering where I put him.
anteprepro:
December 7th, 2012 at 11:29 pm
Well fuck, I didn’t realize I was being redundant. I mean, I should have known, since I usually am, but not usually to such a degree.
Amphiox:
December 7th, 2012 at 11:35 pm
And those were friendly examples, among the least egregious of StevoR’s bile-filled spewings.
Silentbob:
December 7th, 2012 at 11:54 pm
@ 97 strange gods before me
I know StevoR of old from another blog. You are correct that his bigotry isn’t (or I should say, wasn’t) confined to Muslims. He used to go on rants against “cultural relativism” and “hyphenated Americans” (eg. African Americans). He used to defend Western imperialism on the grounds that you’re either a lion or a zebra and lions eat zebras – and anyway, if the enlightened West hadn’t trampled on indigenous peoples someone worse would have. Oddly, he also used to go on anti-”New Atheist” rants, so it’s strange to find him hanging around Pharyngula.
His old rants are still online but I don’t want to run afoul of the Reset rule:
Linking to old comments to demonstrate the perfidy of a commenter, rather than linking to evidence to refute the commenter’s claims, will be regarded as an abuse of the principle of charity.
Suffice it to say he once ventured the opinion that being black in the US is an advantage because you get extra benefits, and described the election of Obama (the first time) as “the ultimate in affirmative action”.
Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine":
December 7th, 2012 at 11:57 pm
@Silentbob
I am not surprised. I suppose I should also apologize to him for having black friends, oh dearie me!
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:09 am
Silentbob,
Oh, this is Thunderdome. That rule doesn’t apply here.
The rules about Threats and Identity almost certainly do apply here, though the wording doesn’t obviously indicate this. But, in word and spirit and practice, Reset does not.
Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:18 am
StevoR is the guy who assumes that any action at all against the nation of Israel is intended to be genocide. Trying to defend against invaders is not the same as trying to exterminate an entire race for no reason other than their race.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:22 am
Silentbob:
I’m so not surprised.
He will not go away, in spite of being repeatedly invited to take a short walk off a tall cliff.
Doesn’t apply in this case, as you aren’t linking to evidence of his racism in order to try and win an argument.
No one here is in any way enamored of StevoR, he’s spilled and spewed his hatred and ugliness all over and when he’s not doing that, he finds plenty of time to whine about how awful and mean we are to him.
At any rate, he ventured into Thunderdome last ep to whine about our bullying ways, and has declared at every opportunity how much he hates Thunderdome, because we can be bullies without restriction here. Shorter version: Thunderdome scares him.
Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine":
December 8th, 2012 at 12:25 am
@Caine
Also the idiocy that because of the rules no one would say anything about him (or probably to him) if he just kept his damn mouth shut about the topics he has a history in. He keeps doing this inane pattern where he comes in “HEY REMEMBER HOW MEAN YOU ARE TO ME!!!!” seemingly to specifically draw attention to that fact and start those fights again.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:34 am
Ing:
Yes, he does exactly that, at regular intervals. He started up in the ‘Southern Man’ thread again. It’s seems he feels he’ll explode if he can’t start screaming about all the evil brown people on a regular basis.
I have no idea why it’s so important to him keep hanging out here and trying to convince us to think well of him. It’s not like we’re all going to forget the jaw-droppingly evil garbage he’s said. Even if he underwent a complete change of heart and opinion, it would take a long fucking time for him to earn everyone’s trust.
Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine":
December 8th, 2012 at 12:37 am
@Caine
I had the misfortune once of winding up talking to actual NeoNazis and came to a mild epiphany…the Bond movies and comic books are actually right, hate makes you chatty.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:47 am
Ing:
So it would seem. You can hardly get them to shut up.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:48 am
The other stuff isn’t really surprising, but
I will say, this does surprise me. I usually don’t read Bad Astronomy, so when I look up a comment by StevoR there I’m not familiar with the context of all his earlier comments, but from my cursory look it seems that even when he was in anti-Israel mode back in 2008, he was basically pro-Obama.
On the other hand, I’ve talked to white supremacists who voted for Obama because they didn’t like Republicans and/or McCain. People are complicated.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:50 am
Caine,
That’s something that other specimens have exhibited before (remember the Piltdown?) — I reckon 1 is for much the same reason I like it here: one need not restrict one’s expressiveness or erudition because the commentariat here is composed of pretty cluey cookies and it’s a freeze peach zone, and I reckon 2 is just plain desire for acceptance and validation so as to soothe his bruised ego.
(1 is fair enough, but 2 is pitiful in its hopeful neediness)
–
But hey, let me not be entirely negative here: I also reckon he has a 3-digit IQ! ;)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:53 am
SG:
Indeed. I expect the people you described parsed it as a lesser of two evils. I grew up with an extremely bigoted grandfather (proud Bircher) who used the lesser of two evils often to justify what would normally be an unusual opinion or action for him.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:56 am
John:
Oh yes. Yes, I do.
Hahahaha, ah Sandiseattle. At least he left an amusing legacy.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:58 am
… and we have a deep well of memes to draw upon.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 8th, 2012 at 12:59 am
In other oddities, I’ve talked to a black man who voted for Romney because he was convinced the economy is going to collapse anyway and he didn’t want a black president to be blamed for it.
chigau (無):
December 8th, 2012 at 1:03 am
I used the 3-digit IQ line recently in meat space.
Oddly, no one got the joke.
(It may be that I spend too much time here.)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:04 am
SG:
I understand that, but talk about voting against your best interests…
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:06 am
Chigau:
I’ve used it in meatspace. All of two people got it. That’s a bit scary.
Pharyngula spoils the masses for us.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:08 am
Heh. I noticed Chas esoterically used ‘raisin date’ on the other thread.
(I wonder how many noticed?)
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:09 am
I noticed.
Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine":
December 8th, 2012 at 1:10 am
@SG
I’m joining the voluntary extinctions. Doomsday cannot come soon enough.
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:11 am
That’s unfortunate.
If that happened and Romney got elected, Obama still would have been blamed for it.
When the economy comes out of a collapse under his presidency, Obama gets blamed for imaginary things like cooking the numbers and for not making it un-collapse fast enough with his magic presidential powers.
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:14 am
I noticed “raisin date.” Which troll was that? LionIRC-whatever?
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 8th, 2012 at 1:15 am
@ SGBM
WTF ‽
Why on earth that particular date?
Rutee Katreya:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:17 am
@Rodney Nelson
Yeah, I’m not really concerned when an ignorant white straight dude is not entirely pleased that people don’t like his ‘dissent’.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:22 am
Ing, may I suggest childfree instead of vhemt?
Funny thing is, this time in history is probably the best it’s ever been.
+++++
Yeah, and as far as I could tell, I didn’t even begin to talk him out of it.
(My earlier wording was misleading: all I can be sure of is he intended to vote for Romney. I haven’t talked to him yet since the election, so I don’t know what he ultimately did. But he was adamant last time I talked to him.)
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 8th, 2012 at 1:25 am
@ John Morales
FIFY: such political rhetoric is the Raison d’être of EP
I consider myself to be exceptionally funny by saying “Born up a tree” before snacking away on my moss.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:28 am
theophontes: look up Coordinated Universal Time and Unix epoch.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:29 am
theophontes,
Why not? Can you think of a better one?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:32 am
I always notice raisin date. I have a fondness for eggcorns.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:35 am
theophontes, it was before your time.
cf. http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Memes
(Shame NatGeo is either too incompetent or too pusillanimous to restore old Pharyngula comments — I have forgotten the nym of the specific specimen that unironically came up with that one (cf. #140 above))
bobo:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:56 am
@109
Yes, he has. But only because his view would meant that forced birthers were ‘controlling’ the conversation, not because it wasn’t his place to tell women whether or not they are allowed to be angry over being treated as subhumans.
So, still offensive!
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 8th, 2012 at 2:06 am
@ Beatrice
I, for one, have retracted that position. StevoR, it appears, is far too dyed-in-the-wool to ever be educated in this regard.
This is a better suggestion.
@StevoR
Then just argue this. Do not book-end it with “Islamic” and “Muslims”. (IMHO, xtianity is by far the biggest danger to the planet anyhow.)
If I (or others here) have mischaracterised you, then show this with examples. But the least I expect is that, upon finding that you are wrong, you make ammends too.
@ SGBM/John Morales
[1970-01-01: convenient at the time / arbitrary]
And there I go again, looking for sophistimicated raisins amongst the peanuts.
That would be really cool. (For one, I would like to know when I waddled into Scienceblogs. Not soon after I got extremely hot under the collar arguing with SGBM from atop my high-horse. Them’s were the days!)
[more raisins]
In Afrikaans there are many of these plays on words:
kos my niks —> cosmetics (Transl: “costs me nothing”)
Buy a donkey —> Thank you (Afrikaans: “baie dankie”)
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 8th, 2012 at 2:10 am
Holy crap, my eyes have been bedazzled by the new layout….
✰_✰
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 2:15 am
I want my killfile back! *stamps feet*
Silentbob:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:48 am
@ 122 Caine, Fleur du mal
OK, I’ll quote and link to evidence to back up what I said in my previous comment @ 118.
First some notes:
1. This will be long (and painful). Sorry. I tried to select just a few quotes to give the gist, but still ended up with a lot of stuff.
2. These quotes are one or two years old and don’t necessarily reflect StevoR’s current views.
3. StevoR posted these under a different alias, “Messier Tidy Upper”. I’m not “outing” him, he outed himself here (as “Flying sardines”):
4. As far as I can tell, I can’t link to the individual comments from which these quotes were taken, only to the OP. Scroll down for the comment threads.
Now some of StevoR/Messier Tidy Upper’s Greatest Misses:
On “Cultural Relativism”
On Lions and Zebras
On Western Imperialism
On The Ultimate in Affirmative Action
On The Benefits of Being Black
On Obama
On Miracles (srsly)
All the above come from this source.
On New Atheists
All the “new atheist” quotes come from this source.
Beatrice:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:56 am
I needed to stop here:
Wow. Just wow.
*takes deep breath and keeps going*
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 8th, 2012 at 6:38 am
Silentbob@153,
Thanks for that piece of research! Most enlightening.
onychophora:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:05 am
I don’t like the goddamned fucking new fonts. Even the word “thunderdome” looks motherfucking cheesy in that font. Rawr! Nerdrage! Change is bad!
vaiyt:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:56 am
That’s glorious.
Racist, imperialist, ethnocentrist, Birther, accomodationist. StevoR is the whole package, isn’t he?
anteprepro:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:06 am
Oh wow. StevoR is even worse than I thought. And here I thought it was just heavy compartmentalization when really he’s just full-on wingnut.
SC (Salty Current), OM:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:22 am
Oh, dear. I read this and all of the problems with this analogy came to mind at once. There’s now a traffic jam.
vaiyt:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:03 am
@SC. 159: Off the top of my head…
- Likening the food chain to a hierarchy.
- Associating “expands”, “builds”, “invents” and “colonises” with lions, a species that does nothing of the sort.
- Saying zebras just roll over waiting to be eaten.
But it’s fun to run with the analogy!
Lions sleep 20 hours a day.
Lions kill less than 1/3 of the animals they hunt.
Lions are adept at stealing prey from other, more efficient hunters.
Lions die of hunger if there’s no other animals to prey on.
What kind of conclusions can we draw from this?
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 8th, 2012 at 10:27 am
@ Silentbob
Holy Crud. It is going to take me a while to process that quantity of scariness in one go. I have (as SC put it) a bit of a mental logjam right now.
onychophora:
December 8th, 2012 at 10:35 am
A culture that expands and spreads, builds and invents, explores and colonises is the Borg.
The Borg assimilates (“eats”) other cultures.
Should we be the Borg?
Pteryxx:
December 8th, 2012 at 10:48 am
Because symbiosis doesn’t exist in nature, only predator-prey interactions count for cultural analogy. Which cultures get to be the honey guide and which the badger?
SallyStrange: Elite Femi-Fascist Genius:
December 8th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
Aww, no Chadgething? I haz disappoint. I still want to know why he acted like he didn’t know a damn thing about the Stonewall riots, when, as he claimed, it’s “self-evident” that the riots sparked the development of the modern civil rights movement.
Beatrice:
December 8th, 2012 at 2:04 pm
Personally, I would love to know how come cunt is a word use of which deserves to be defended in multiple posts, while at the same time Chadgething chides us for using naughty language and being disrespectful.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 8th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
I want chadgething to comment on MLK’s letter from a Birmingham jail were he said his biggest problem wasn’t the real racists, but those moderates who were worried about tone and politeness….
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 8th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
Ugh.
I didn’t imagine it was possible for me to feel disappointed with StevoR.
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
I’m surprised anyone expected better from StevoR.
The part about “hyphenated Americans” is kind of hard to grok, coming from an Australian. Why would he care how “pure” our culture (or our president) is? I guess he’d already allied himself (totally!) with “America” and “Israel” against “Muslims” (never mind all those who don’t support the causes they’re being labeled with) so anything which supposedly threatens those allies would supposedly threaten him too. Okay. I guess I could understand where that’s coming from, as absurd as it is.
But then, there’s not as much black-and-white, categorical thinking when it comes to criticism of new atheists. We get wishy-washy apologetics for Christianity and Judaism, and maybe a generic “monotheism” — though I think I can safely leave out Islam — which is all about blurring the boundaries as much as possible. Lots of “relativistic” thinking and gray areas and more than enough room for doubt (read: belief!). That’s when we hear about how unfair strawmen and over-generalizations and caricatures are, how maybe the OT god was somehow both sort of good and sort of bad, how religion and “faith” can sort of be reasonable sometimes for some people in some ways…. And miracles? Sure, who really knows? All those parts are probably about as reasonable and level-headed as StevoR gets, which is pretty sad.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Perhaps the Stevocake would love Hyphen.
I had an uncle who had this album.
Ugh!
(The comments, it seems are all from Freepland.)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
My brain choked to a halt early – he thinks science is a result of Western culture? Unholy cow. I guess history, much like everything else, eludes StevoR.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
Funny that Caine and I posted at the same time. Caine has a funny story about working for John Wayne.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 8th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
It’s worth noting that StevoR’s question about the alternative to the British Empire is quite easily answered, at least with respect to Australia. British settlement did not begin until 1804, no other state had made any preparations for settlement, and after the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805 the British Navy had an unchallengeable global supremacy, which it maintained throughout the 19th century. So the ethical alternative to settlement and annexation was to declare that Britain regarded Australia as belonging to its current inhabitants, would not settle or annex any part of it, and would prevent any other power doing so. Of course this was never considered, but that was because of British imperialism, not because it would have been in any way impractical.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Janine:
Christ, that man scared the crap outta me. Was hardly worth the money. I kept envisioning spending my young life in prison.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Kuiper-Belt:
December 8th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
This is actually quite a common trope in Australia. It is perhaps even mildly defensible, in abstract historical terms – if you had to be colonised, who would you rather be colonised by? That is, in the same sense of abstractly discussing whether it’s better to be hanged, pressed or burned at the stake. So the Belgians were worse. Woo fucking hoo.
Alethea H. "Crocoduck" Kuiper-Belt:
December 8th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Damnit <q> tags don’t make comic sans now :(
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
It’s that “Western culture” is somehow science and civilization itself. Let’s not forget that is supposed be “Judeo-Christian” — that will come in handy later, when we decide who exactly we’re rooting for. We’re just supposed to forget about the influences from Greeks, Romans, Persians, Arabs, Africans, Asians of all sorts…. For some odd reason, we only ever get as far as white nationalists from the 18th and 19th century colonial empires, slap “Western culture” on it and shove “Judeo-Christian” in there for a bit of back-story.
Someone recently quoted Tacitus:
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
Sorry, I meant to say It’s odd that “Western culture”…. blah blah blah
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
OOoooh, I can’t wait for that fucker, SteveoR to pop back in here and whine again.
Thanks for all of that SilentBob.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
CR:
Apparently. I just recently finished reading Spice: The History of A Temptation by Jack Turner. It was a fascinating look into a small window of history. One thing which came up fairly often was that every time Eastern Trade was revived, there was a steady influx of Arab science, which seriously helped “western culture” along. I don’t imagine that would sit over well with StevoR.
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
The opening quotation marks (but not closing ones!) in blockquotes look even sillier when they’re nested…
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
Tony:
You forget, Tony, StevoR finds Thunderdome, with it’s lack of an authoritative rule, to be ooga booga scary.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
CR:
Yeah, I am not digging the new ‘design’.
Rodney Nelson:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Me neither. I want my killfile, my Comic Sans and my Gumby.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Rodney:
Me too. We’ll get the killfile back, as SGBM will work on that. Comic Sans is whenever PZ gets around to fixing the q tags. Last time, that took about forever.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 6:45 pm
I personally very much dislike the term “Judeo-Christian”.
I quote from Wikipedia, where the main thrust of my objection* to it:
–
* It’s often merely used to seem highbrow.
–
PS I see what you mean about the preview, Caine; when previewing this comment the rendering is well and truly fucked-up.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
John:
I try to go with ‘Abrahamaic Religions’ instead. I do slip at times, though, and there’s “Judeo-Christian”, out of habit.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 6:53 pm
Mr. Myers. I wasn’t sure exactly where to post my concern to. So, forgive me for posting it twice. I’ve been a silent reader for some time now, and your science blogs are of interest to me. I was fortunate enough a couple years back to see you speak. I found you informative, and somewhat humorous in your presentation. I am posting this here since the page I’m commenting about is not allowing comments. I don’t follow or understand some of the pettiness that seems to follow your blogs. Your “dungeon” page is odd, and something I would expect to see on a different type site. Maybe a yahoo group for teen boys. I have to wonder if you ever stop and think of what some of your fellow colleagues like Eugenie C. Scott for example would think? It is immature, and some of what you say about these people is not backed up with proof. If you are going to call someone racist then show proof of why you believe this. It is the responsible thing to do. Someone could say that they don’t advise anyone to let their young daughters alone with you, because you are a pervert. Do you see what my problem is with this accusation? It can damage a person, and once it is out there, people latch on to it. It can damage the reputation of a person for years. Based on a suggestion. Mr. Myers, you are a intelligent man. I feel it is time for you to behave as one. Shame on you for losing your sight, acting irresponsible, and behaving like a juvenile boy.
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 6:53 pm
But by this point, if that had any merit, we should really be speaking of “Christo-Islamic” tradition, right? I’m sure StevoR will go right along with that.
Rodney Nelson:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:00 pm
marymurphy #187
Your concern is noted.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
MaryMurphy:
It’s not the least immature, it’s informative. No proof? Did you try clicking on all the links? The fuckwits in the dungeon have left evidence of their fuckwittery littered all over the damn place. We know, we get to deal with them every day. Like we’re dealing with you.
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
Every time a troll says racist garbage here, PZ needs to keep it here on his site and link to it on a dedicated, permanent page? How would that be “the responsible thing to do”? How would it be good at all?
Yes, people can make shit up, like you just did. But is it simply incredible to you that racist trolls comment here from time to time?
They shouldn’t have actually said racist garbage (which is different from other people making shit up about them, like you just did). If that damages their reputations, that’s a very good thing.
FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker):
December 8th, 2012 at 7:07 pm
Oh Mary. I love how you request proof for something about which you know nothing. The dungeon denizens are there for good reason. Every single one of them left ample evidence as to their infringement of PZ’s rules. Just because you weren’t around to see it happen doesn’t mean he didn’t have good reason for the banning. Oh, and you are aware that these things can be googled, aren’t you? In some cases where the comments are truly hateful PZ has deleted them but for the most part the idiot’s words are still there.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:17 pm
MaryMurphy is accusative towards PZ:
Leaving aside that boys are (definitionally) juvenile, it is to PZ’s credit that he is still youthful at heart.
(There, there &mash; I will not shame you for behaving like an old fogey)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
CR:
A person could be tempted to think, with the recent influx of disgruntled MRAs, that the whole purpose of marymurphy’s veddy concerned post was simply to get in another shot about PZ being a prevert. Especially as one dpitman was screeching the very same thing in two separate posts in two threads.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
“Mistress Mary, Quite contrary,
How does your dudgeon grow?”
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
John:
Beautiful.
Rodney Nelson:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:28 pm
Mary,
For the most part the inhabitants of the Dungeon have to work hard to be banned. PZ rules this place by benign neglect. It takes serious trolling for PZ to notice them enough for them to get banned.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:52 pm
consciousness razor, Caine, Fleur du mal I’m sorry, I do believe that I posted my thoughts to Mr. Myers. Since this is a open thread I will look into your replies. I would still like to address this to Myers.
Here are two people that have no link proving that one is a racist, homophobe, and the other a stalker to his ex.
1. Bob Stevensson Racist homophobe with poor impulse control and no coherence at all.
2. Jim Klingenberg Creepy stalker dude. Posted treacly pleas of undying love to his ex here on Pharyngula, revealing both name and location — grow up, guy, and move on.
As for my hypothetical scenario of Mr Myers and his perversions is pretty clear to be a hypothetical situation. My point is I can think this of someone just cause I find them “creepy”, and it insinuates they are a “molester” to young ladies. which is clearly just a opinion. Without evidence, it is just that. It is irresponsible to attack someone’s character in such a manor. If you do not like me using Mr. Myers in my hypothetical situation, then it proves my point of how irresponsible his behavior has been.
Now here is where the boy behavior comes in. My list of immature name calling by a well educated adult.
troll, sockpuppet (what is a sockpuppet), Very icky misogynis, Pig-stupid, twit, asshole, A cupcake (how ironic to use a derogatory term used to insult a gay man), douchecanoe, and Pervy, These were just used in half the names used on his list. I quit combing it, and felt this is enough to make my point.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
Umm??? Yeah, okay. John, this is a big boy conversation.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
I did not catch the events with Bob Stevenssen. But I have been around long enough to trust PZ’s actions.
As for Jim Klingenberg; here is the story. One of the regulars ended a relationship with him. Jim did not take it well. He posted a number of pleading messages to the regular, going so far as to use the regular’s name. PZ did the only reasonable thing he could do, he deleted all of the messages when he banned Jim.
This is not some plot by an immature child as you earlier claimed.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:02 pm
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Too late, you already have taken shots.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
Then e-mail Prof. Myers, Murphy. (Hint: you have to get your nose out of the dungeon to find his e-mail address). You don’t get to command a personal audience in an open thread, especially one which, being unmoderated, doesn’t grab PZ’s attention much.
Your one and only aim seems to be getting slurs in regarding PZ. If you were all that offended, I doubt you’d keep bringing them up.
Troll is a well-know internet term, as is the behaviour of one trolling. Are you familiar with this thing called Google, by chance? If you don’t know what a sockpuppet is, what in the fuckety fuck are you moaning about? Do your fucking research first. It’s another well-known phenomenon. Look it up.
Misogynists exist, dear, and they tend to be quite noisy. We don’t care for them here. As for them being ‘very icky’, I agree. Pig-stupid? It is rather insulting to pigs, I grant you. Nothing wrong with twit or asshole, they make up a large portion of the population, unfortunately. Now Cupcake is a meme, one originated by me. It is not anything to do with gay men and as someone who is bisexual, you wouldn’t find me using gay slurs. Click the link: http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Cupcake
Douchecanoe, douchecake, douchebiscuit and many a variation on douchebag are happily used here, given the history of douching and how anti-woman it happens to be. As to pervy, well, some people are, ya know.
Honestly, “Mary”, if you’re going to clutch your pearls and have the vapours over such things, stop looking for them.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
Also, marymurphy, I have a question for you. How many people will know the real names of most of the people listed in the dungeon? How will their reputations be damaged?
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
Your formatting is terrible.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:09 pm
Jesus Fucking Christ – if you’re going to insist on posting, “Mary”, learn to fucking quote correctly. What in the hell is it with trolls not knowing how to fucking quote? Is this some super huge mystery now?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
It is? We’re all male, are we, including you, Mary?
Weren’t Mary and Murphy previous morphs of Pilty?
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Caine and anyone else, was there anything about the Jim Klingenberg situation that I was wrong about or lying about.
Nepenthe:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:14 pm
Well, blockquoting requires one to string together several characters in a meaningful way. Need I say more?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
Janine:
Nope. That was a terribly distressing event, which resulted in at least one regular leaving for PET. The meatspace info revealed by Jim left zero choice as to his posts, they had to be deleted.
FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker):
December 8th, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Oh dear. Mary, it would appear that in addition to not knowing how formatting works you also don’t understand how the internet works. With a few exceptions the comments that got those folks banned are still available to anyone who cares to look for them. If all you have is two instances out of the seventy or so denizens of the dungeon it’s quite clear that you’re cherry picking in order to grind a particular axe.*
Care to back up your assertion of childishness with something other than evidence-less assertion?
*mixed metaphors: the most tastiest kind.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Nepenthe:
I suppose not, but I do find it incredibly disheartening that so many people are such idiots that they don’t understand quotation.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
Hmmm, you know who quoted just like ‘Mary’ and was recently banned? That Christtestter critter.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
For weeks, people were telling that stupid asshole how to do simple formatting.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:21 pm
Yes, I’d say it didn’t take at all.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:21 pm
marymurphy:
Then you have done that which you did not desire to do.
Almost seems that it’s the terminology that offends you, rather than the personal charges those words connote.
(Blind, irresponsible, juvenile, unbecoming — those are the charges you have made about PZ)
–
So, you are a big boy? ;)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:25 pm
A Boy Named Mary…
Just doesn’t have the same ring as Sue.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Janine, to answer your question about reputations? Have you ever used Google? Most employers do, and with it many of those names may come up with their identity as well. People often use the same username on various accounts. So you tell me.
As for my formatting, I agree. I have not used html codes since I am not a blogger, website designer, and myspace is dead no longer have use for them. I no longer have the desire, nor the patience to learn them again.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
No I am not a boy. I often would tell my son that when he acted in a childish way. So, no penis here.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:36 pm
Caine, Fleur du mal I do believe you were deprived of the breast as a baby, and then into adult hood. You really are a moron.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
marymurphy @220, well then, how is it “a big boy conversation” if you’re not a big boy?
consciousness razor:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
This is a blog, not PZ’s email inbox. This is an almost completely unmoderated part of this blog, meaning PZ probably won’t respond here.
Many of them can be cited with evidence. So what exactly do you expect? Take one of your own examples:
Should revealing information about someone have been left here, just so you wouldn’t be able to find some way of doubting any of it ever happened? Is that really such an extraordinary fucking claim for goddamned skeptic like you?
Nonsense. If PZ did something wrong (your “hypothetical” claim was that he’s a “pervert” and should be kept away from his daughter, so that apparently means incest and pedophilia), then I’d be totally satisfied by his reputation going down the tubes. IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING. If he brought that shit up on others’ websites, they would completely justified in erasing it and telling people all about what a fucking asshole he was.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
If that is the fucking case, marybrown, if those trolls were so concerned, they could avoid saying racist and/or sexist shit. The onus is upon them, no one is forcing them to say these things.
You do not need to put on the tights and cape for their sakes.
Guess what? I do not have a blog. I can not even begin to design a website. I never had a myspace page. Yet I learned simply so I could communicate better. It is not difficult.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
Fuck you, you paramecium ignorant pissant.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
This is your idea of an insult? Do better, Cupcake, that’s abysmal.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
It has been my experience that once you start attacking a commentor for their spelling, formatting, and punctuation, then follow up with personal jabs at my gender instead of the content of my posts, then you pretty much cannot defend any further such negative behavior.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Funny thing there. Creationists have brought those charges against PZ in years past. Somehow, PZ has gotten by.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
marymurphy:
I quote someone you admire:
(Nasty things, petards)
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
Yeah, somebody who doesn’t understand where al gebra came from….
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
B!U!L!L! F!U!C!K!I!N!G! S!H!I!T!
You fucking liar, you trollish charges have been addressed. You are now whining because you do not want to defend your charges, which have been shredded.
Fuck you and fuck that high horse you rode in on.
AJ Milne:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:53 pm
(Glances below editing window…)
‘You may use these HTML tags and attributes:…’
Hmm. But, y’know, the examples below are very confusing. I mean, they’ve these mysterious little greater and less than signs next to ‘em… Hold on…
(Scratches on pad a while with pencil… Eventually breaks pencil in frustration, throws on ground…)
… it seems to be some sort of system of inequalities. But whoah… it’s a tough one.
Me, tho’, I’m glad the Church Lady is here to ensure that proper decorum is followed.
I mean, really, you people. The filth, in particular, is getting to be a complete load of fucking balls*.
(*/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxhvEXpsKc … whatinhell is going on with links, or is that just in preview?)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:53 pm
Hahahahahaha, oh we have a genuine fuckwit here, folks. “Mary”, you’re the one who keeps bringing up gender – remember how it’s a big boys discussion? Hmmmm?
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Oh did I upset the Myers sheep?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
AJ, whenever you insert a link, the preview is a major fucking mess – it posts okay, just ignore what the preview looks like.
marymurphy:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
Janine, I don’t seem to have the time you do.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
marymurphy:
Leaving aside your lack of cogency, your incompetence at employing a consistent grammatical person is no less than your grammar or employment of markup.
(Care to elucidate how you figure that “attacking a commentor ” [sic] implies that such further behaviour cannot be defended?)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
No, Cupcake. You’re being mocked. I know it’s difficult, when you most likely have a 3 digit IQ. Don’t worry, we’ll go slow for you.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:58 pm
Does anyone have their Cupcake Bingo card out?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 8:59 pm
The syntax is reminiscent of Christstttuttererwhatever, too.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:00 pm
Janine:
I don’t have mine out, but if I remember right, we’ve filled quite a few squares already.
SallyStrange: Elite Femi-Fascist Genius:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:03 pm
Baaah-aaahh.
PZ Myers:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:06 pm
JESUS FUCK, how do people this stupid even exist? “Marymurphy” is a liar.
I have access to a lot of information about commenter identities, and I can tell you this: “Marymurphy” is a dpitman sockpuppet. Banned again.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:06 pm
SallyStrange, it is about fucking time! It is your turn to be sheared. PZ needed a sniny new sweater and socks.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Caine, you had the wrong troll.
You are bad and you should feel bad.
*snort*
FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker):
December 8th, 2012 at 9:10 pm
Oh dear, oh dear, how shall we sleep?
Marymurphy has called us sheep.
With such wit how will we cope?
With mocking rhymes, or so I hope.
FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker):
December 8th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Dammit.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
Called it! Janine, I got ‘dpitman’ in #194.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Caine, I am bad and I feel bad.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Wow. So dpitman doesn’t have a penis, eh? That might explain why he’s so obsessed with Brownian’s.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
Janine:
Aaaw, c’mere, us shoops will cuddle and have a drink. I hope PZ remembers to leave memorial links on dpitman’s headstone. Wouldn’t want there to be no proof or anything.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
I am working on a bottle of côtes du Rhône.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Aww… it was chewy, but PZ done took it away!
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
Marypitman was forbidden fruit.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
John:
Well, if someone could get through to Chadgething, we’d have another chewtoy. I get the feeling that the fuckwit thinks Thunderdome is another site, not another thread.
John Morales:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:39 pm
What amuses me is the way sock-puppeting trolls imagine that adopting a female ‘nym will give them some sort of leeway here.
(Must make for a shit-load of cognitive dissonance, when they essay that tactic)
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:42 pm
Lucy Van Pelt is H.R.
Good grief! I know I post this the other day.
Just try to spread some cheer.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
A MRA lying??? *Full fake pseudo swoon onto the extra heavy duty fainting couch, to the applause of the Pullet Patrol for dramatic swoon*
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 8th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
Nerd, does the Pullet Patrol™ have a Stealth Squad?
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 8th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
That is a backhanded compliment in a way. Having a female ‘nym on too many blogs is likely to get one spurned.
LykeX:
December 8th, 2012 at 11:04 pm
So, what do you want? We should leave up any comment, even if they contain private information, just to humor some random jackass?
Let’s try your method of explaining an issue: whatif I went a-digging and found out your name, your address and your workplace; took pictures of you, your friend and family; recorded information about your schedule (“works out at gym X every friday at 4 o’clock”) and then posted the whole thing here.
Do you think it would be OK for PZ to delete that post? Or do you think he should leave it up as “evidence”?
Finally, this is a private site. PZ has every right to ban anybody for any reason. He doesn’t need to provide any evidence or justification. The only limitation is when it comes to actual libel, and we’re far from that, especially since there’s no reason to think that there’s any relationship between screen name and real life name. My passport sure as hell doesn’t say “LykeX”.
So, in summation; you’re an idiot, whining about nothing. Go away.
LykeX:
December 8th, 2012 at 11:06 pm
I shouldn’t just leave windows open. I forget that it doesn’t automatically reload to show new comments :(
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 8th, 2012 at 11:11 pm
It’s okay, LykeX, the chewtoy’s time was limited here.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 8th, 2012 at 11:43 pm
You mean the Lilac Berets? The Kninja Knitters are also available for stealth operations.
chigau (無):
December 8th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
jeeeez people
How ‘stealth’ is it if you advertise?
John Morales:
December 9th, 2012 at 5:25 am
Another one for the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” files.
Beatrice:
December 9th, 2012 at 5:36 am
If you accidentally run someone over with your car and kill them, there is going to be an investigation.
If you accidentally shoot them… oh well, shit happens. Anyone saying otherwise wants to steal our guns!!!
jonmilne:
December 9th, 2012 at 10:38 am
Sir Patrick Moore, legendary astronomer, has died at the age of 89, passing away peacefully in his sleep.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20657939#
An icon may be gone, but he absolutely will never be forgotten. RIP Sir Patrick, you brilliant brilliant man.
Nepenthe:
December 9th, 2012 at 11:04 am
From John’s link:
There is always a bullet in the chamber and you always clear the chamber before doing anything with a handgun besides shoot it. Ugh. Some people are too dumb to live. Sadly, the universe does not mete out those consequences justly.
IANAL, but this is pretty clearly negligent homicide (even if that’s not the exact term).
Rodney Nelson:
December 9th, 2012 at 11:22 am
Oh, quick, look over there. A sounder of boars. Or is it an exaltation of larks? I can’t be sure. Let’s get closer so we can determine what they are? Quickly! Quickly!
Brownian:
December 9th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Cross-posted from B&W:
So, over at the ‘pit, our good friend Reap is dropping docs on me:
This is that dumb piece of shit Reap Paden’s idea of holding me accountable for calling him a fucking moron.
Brownian:
December 9th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Cross-posted from B&W, with the link to page 670 of the pit removed (thanks to Markovbaines for the heads up):
So, over at the ‘pit, our good friend Reap is dropping docs on me with the express intent to intimidate:
Now watch all the ‘pit fuckers claim that it’s “holding me accountable”, not “trying to intimidate”—the same lying, coward fuckers who insist that PZ’s comments are directed at “anyone who disagrees with him.”
What a miserable bunch of deluded, lying fucks.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Brownian, you sit to shit? Shame on you, that’s not manly…or something.
Seriously, they are incredibly loathsome assholes, getting their giggles over doing active harm. And people continue to defend this garbage on the basis of “oh hey, it’s just talk, man.”
Beatrice:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
I know they are fools, one more stupid and useless than another, but this sounds like a threat. That’s really not on.
(waves at any slimers who might reproduce this as “OMG, they are shitting their pants over there”)
Nepenthe:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Obviously Reap is just expressing concern for Brownian’s gastrointestinal health. Everyone knows that squatting, not sitting, is the most effective way to move one’s bowels.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Beatrice:
But they aren’t creepy stalkers, no, no. *eyeroll* Remember all the fussing Hoggle did over being outed, how it would harm him and his family, do damage to his pillar of the community rep and all that? Funny how if it’s them, it’s a bad, bad thing, but hey, it’s perfectly okay for them to do to someone else!
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Not at all. This is just Reap’s way of attempting to look intelligent. You can see him stroking his chin as he writes “Soooooooo.. let’s do this instead…. we can call him Anthony K.” as if he were some brilliant general, discussing tactics in his war room.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Anthony:
Mmmm. He’s a general in the same way Chadgething is one. Well, you’ll have them stymied for a while with the name change – whatever will they do now?
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Escalate.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Anthony:
*Sigh* Yes. They were doing that anyway, seems they hardly need a reason to do so. They are such a…sensitive bunch. I hope you’re keeping handy stacks of evidence.
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Gosh, for folks who think skeptics should stick to skepticism, they sure do spend a lot of time on extracurriculars like stalking.
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
Actual reply to Reap on the Slymepit:
Never. It never has. Until Reap of course.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Anthony:
Um, stupid question, I know, but how does the idiot figure this ^ ?
I knew your name, but that’s only because you linked to a photostream of yours at one time. It’s hardly being shouted all over the ‘net.
Rodney Nelson:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
Tell me, Brownian, er Ian, I mean Anthony, what did you do to the poor, bullied slymepitters? Did you tell them they were a bunch of misogynist jerks or something?
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Fuck! Ya’all just had to drag in a steaming heap of Reap!
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Well, I’d used it on Atheist Nexus and in other places. It was hardly a well-kept secret. So that’s their excuse.
As one ‘pitter put it in response to Reap’s post:
@Rodney:
I accurately described Reap Paden as dumb.
bobo:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
#280
lol!
Ogvorbis:300-year-old Wood Elf:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
That’s what you get for being honest on line.
bobo:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
so, about that misogyny thing, out in the real world:
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/
p.s. I am always checking the news, and have a habit of sharing interesting stories that i come across. if that is something that should not happen here, please let me know!
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Janine:
Reap is just an anagram for his real name: Rape.
nms:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
How am I meant to recognize Brownian’s posts now that he’s going by some kind of pseudonym?
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:34 pm
bobo, this is exactly the thread for sharing those sorts of things.
I’m often imitated, but never replicated.
Ogvorbis:300-year-old Wood Elf:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
The line.
The brilliance.
The snark.
The humour.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:36 pm
Speaking of anagrams, I put Anthony K into the internet anagram server, which spit these out:
Hank Tony
Ankh Tony
Khan Tony
Thank Yon
Hanky Ton
Hanky Not
Ant Honky
Tan Honky
Yak Nth No
Yak Nth On
You could always use one of these, Anthony, then they could lie about how they figured out your name from that. I kind of like Ant Honky.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Ogvorbis:
You left out the most important thing: the sexiness, man. The sexy sexiness.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
This almost as if Black Francis/Frank Black became known as Charles Michael Kittridge Thompson IV.
The Mellow Monkey: Caerie:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
Tan Honky is my favorite.
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
I think we have a winner!
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Ophelia blogged about the Pakistani women being stalked and harassed and what does that ass Julian have to say about it? This:
ChasCPeterson:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
The li’l photo of himself.
Ogvorbis:300-year-old Wood Elf:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Nah, too obvious. When it is that obvious, I get suspicious.
Rey Fox:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Aw, now you no longer have the shibboleth. How will we ever identify the slimepitters now?
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
LOL @ Chas. Well played, sirrah.
They’re the ones who simply disagree with us.
bobo:
December 9th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
#298 Caine, I was just reading an article about the double standard – men are studs – women are sluts- and one particularly ‘astute’ commenter regaled us with this theory:
yes, so the ‘slut’ label refuses to die cuz women can’t stop fightin over the menz!
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Rey:
By their mild, polite and reasoned dissent shall you know them.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
Bobo, quoting:
Oh FFS. Some days, you just have to be amused at how much tortured reasoning they put into their apologetics.
Rey Fox:
December 9th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Ah. So look for the smoking jacket and monocle.
Rodney Nelson:
December 9th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
“I’m so super-studly the womenz should be throwing themselves at me but somehow I can’t get laid.”
vaiyt:
December 9th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
I had a “Nice Guy” phase once.
It lasted as long as it took for me to meet other Nice Guys and realise they’re total assholes.
PZ Myers:
December 9th, 2012 at 6:50 pm
I don’t quite understand the logic of that. So you aren’t really exposing someone’s identity if you can discover it. I guess that means it only counts as unethical if you reveal someone’s name without being able to find it.
How does that work?
Anthony K:
December 9th, 2012 at 6:54 pm
It means even the Slymepitters recognize that Reap Paden, P.I.’s fantastic legwork took less effort and brains than it does to refill a salt shaker.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
PZ:
Like magnets and tides. Mysteriously.
SC (Salty Current), OM:
December 9th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
The decent men I’ve known have been well aware of the “permanent sexual immaturity-sex” option. Being decent, they took another path.
***
Oh, yes.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
Brown…er…Anthony…er…Ian:
Yes, but what does this mean for the queue? Inquiring minds want to know!
****
And I still cannot seem to preview the comments…
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
mary:
You need to get it out of your head that the only person who is going to respond to you on AN OPEN FUCKING FORUM is the blog host.
If you don’t want anyone else to respond, send an email. And get in line. PZ get’s lots of hate mail. Yours won’t be any different. In fact, you’ll fit right in with all the other idiots.
Oh, and you’re a massive dumbfuck.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
marymurphy:
Then what the fuck is your immature, condescending, ignorant, ass doing involved.
You proved in your first post-in the Lounge of all places (because for all that you’ve been lurking a while here, you somehow haven’t quite mastered the ability to read for comprehension)-how mature you are.
Yet you’re trying to lecture PZ. On his blog.
You’ve got guts.
They belong in the Slymepit.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:46 pm
maryFUCKINGDUMBASSmurphy:
Why I do believe we have our very own HYPERSKEPTIC in the ‘Dome.
I thought they were a dying breed.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
Caine @214:
Wait, christtestter was banned???
Not being online all day every day is so totally cutting into my ability to keep up with this blog :)
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Tony, you are just a bit late to the party.I am going to reveal the plot twist. Marymartin was actually dpitman.
(Sorry, I had to tease.)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:52 pm
Tony:
Yep. I sent an alert and PZ took a look and decided on the appropriate action. By the way, “MaryMurphy” was “dpitman”, and has already been banned.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
maryFUCKINGDUMBASSmurphy:
You must have a high opinion of yourself if you think anyone here gives two shits what you have to say. You discredited yourself in your first fucking post.
Perhaps if you had a *true* grievance with PZ and posted in a reasoned manner, you wouldn’t have been met with the response you have. As you have chosen to criticize PZ with the manner of a petulant 11 year old, the response you’ve gotten is commensurate.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 9th, 2012 at 8:57 pm
Tony, will you please stop arguing with a day old post.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 9:03 pm
Janine:
He’ll get there. He missed out on the fun because of work, so let him argue away. :D
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 9th, 2012 at 9:03 pm
Damn.
Getting banned in the ‘Dome.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 9th, 2012 at 9:04 pm
I’m there now.
Sorry.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 9th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
You know what was funny about dpitman getting banned? His being a skeevy asshat in two other threads wasn’t enough for a banning – PZ told him, in *huge* red letters, that he was confined to posting in Thunderdome. So what does the dope do? Morphs and starts up with the “MaryMurphy” business.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 9th, 2012 at 9:13 pm
What was really funny about that act was how quickly dpitman reverted back to acting like a troll. Claiming to not having enough time to figure out how to format as am attempted insult was rather piss poor.
(One of my grandfathers used to refer to some things as being piss poor. I have come around to really liking that term.)
chigau (無):
December 9th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
I really wanted christtestter to answer my question about why someone’s choice of online ‘nym would make someone unreliable.
*sigh*
Now I’ll never know.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 9th, 2012 at 9:20 pm
He had weeks to answer that, chigau. He was never going to do so. Nothing was lost.
chigau (無):
December 9th, 2012 at 9:37 pm
butbutbut
Janine
I did so want to ask about xis own ‘nym.
christtestter
christ testter
christ tester
christ teste
I mean, waht?
Mattir:
December 9th, 2012 at 10:58 pm
I’m disappointed that I have to be in the Queue for Ghey Secks with Anthony K., but I guess I’ve waited this long…
On a serious note, I really don’t understand the pit people sometimes.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 9th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
[Patrick Moore]
:’(
*clenched tentacle salute*
@ chigau
christ‘s testes?
The tardigrade’s Chinese ‘nym does not exactly instill confidence.
@ Mattir
{theophontes checks ticket carefully.}
Oh noze!!!
chigau (無):
December 10th, 2012 at 12:39 am
theophontes
I have alot (really alot) of Canadian Tire Bucks,
does that get us upqueueue for browntony?
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:45 am
@ chigau
{tap tap, tappity tap}
Canadian Tire Bucks.
Holy Heffer, that is cool. I think it time that the Politburo starts to issue its own currency. Then we can all be
In Hong Kong, almost all the bank notes are issued by private banks (the guBmint only issues plastic HK$10 notes of late). There are many banks … and lots of different types of banknotes.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:55 am
The local term is “VIP”. In English and in Putonghua. You want to sell anything, just stick a “VIP” sticker on it and you are in business.
When we start printing our Thunderdome Drachmas, we’ll buy our way onto the Ghey Secks VIP Queue.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 10th, 2012 at 2:55 am
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/12/05/why-im-not-afraid-of-a-nuclear-iran/
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 3:50 am
Well it’s been noted several times here that anyone who includes “rational” or “skeptic” or “truth”* in their nym is almost certainly an irrational, credulous liar.
*Truthmachine being an exception – although I did think his nym indicated a rather swollen ego.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:07 am
:(
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:10 am
Ha ha
*wipes tear*
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:16 am
:)
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:30 am
Now if only I could fit a reference to Diogenes in there somewhere.
John Morales:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:48 am
ॐ, heh.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:54 am
Oh, I saw. That’s probably why I had him on my mind.
John Morales:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:58 am
Sometimes, I like being able to make things more obvious to vision-impaired people than to us ordinary lugs.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 6:46 am
I’ll respond more later. Just one thing to note :
I may and do disagree with many commenters here but y’know what I’m NOT a bad person and I do have a lot that’s positive to contribute here. Don’t let the strawpeople that some have nasty asswipes here have constructed fool ya.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:08 am
@ 172. Nick Gotts (formerly KG)
Bzzt. Major history FAIL on your part there Nick Gotts. The First Fleet arrived and established the first British Colony in 1788. British colonies were well established by 1804.
See :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Fleet
Or any good history text on the subject.
Dunno where you got 1804 from but big error there. Not unexpected from you of course.
@ 176. consciousness razor :
Nope – I never said that. Learn to read for comprehension next time’ k?.
Also Greeks & Romans are included under Westerners y’know right?
@ 170. Caine, Fleur du mal :
Shit you are ignorant Caine aren’t you? Yes. Western culture has produced the scientific method which was invented or discovered if you prefer by Sir Francis Bacon in 1620. The early Greeks – also Westerners had other more philosophical but essentially proto-scientific methodologies and ideas – and were Westerners. The inventors of the telescope, figures like Galileo Galilei, Copernicus, Tycho Brahe and Charles Darwin were of course Westerners. Chinese and Arabs and others did make some very useful and good observations of things like supernovae, eclipses and comets but did not understand these through the scientific method but instead believed in superstitions like astrology.
More replies to come – maybe tomorrow, maybe earlier, when I have time and energy and have ready.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:12 am
You are a horrible person and I’m not the least bit interested in those moments when you decide to play pretend as a decent human being. You aren’t fooling anyone here.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:13 am
SG, any thoughts on when we’ll have our killfiles back?
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:14 am
StevoR,
Could you please please please fuck off?
You despise non-Westerners and consider any contribution made by them (near-)worthless. Totally not biased, that. Just fuck off already. I don’t care about your replies, they are obviously going to consist of more hate, bigotry and general stupidity.
Spare us, please. I’m begging you. Stop commenting here. Fuck off already.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:15 am
Seconded.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:18 am
You have nothing but bigotry to contribute, a contribution we don’t want. You have nothing else to offer us. What a stupid fuckwitted bigot.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:30 am
Thirded. Trash can for the trash…
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:47 am
@ 181. Caine, Fleur du mal
Not scary so much as just a disgusting cesspit of nasty bullies who have no valid arguments to offer only abuse, strawpeople and their own revolting lies and bile.
I’ve been bullied in my life enough not to seek out any more of it, thankyou. )(In advance and probably in vain.)
Also shame on you and PZ for allowing a thread so transparently dedicated for bullying those you disagree with like this to go on. But then I guess some of you nastier and stupider commenters do find it hard to hold your own when limited to a civilised, reasoned discourse where insults and casting aspersions are held out of bounds.
There’ s a lot I like about this blog and a lot I agree with but then there’es also some really batshit leftwingnuts who I can’t stand and who seem totally detached from reality as I see it.
I just hope maybe, just maybe, I can get some of them and some of the lurkers to actually think and consider a few different points of view that are a bit more realistic.
Meself? I was madly far left wing once, eventually realised how wrong (& anti-Semitic) I’d been. I probably overcompensated for a while. My views have indeed evolved over time and I’m willing to admit that I’m wrong if and when I am. Yeah, I’m a fucked up all too oft overtired, drunk, fucked up human. Yeah, its possible I’m wrong, always. Same as everybody fucken else. You guys realise that too right?
But know what? That doesn’t make me a bad person and I wouldn’t fucken hurt or discriminate against anyone. I have my own opinions on things but that doesn’t mean I mistreat or judge people on their skin colour and I’d give up my seat on the train for an African-Australian or Muslim Australian just the same as I’d do for a Caucasian-Australian.
Politically, well neither leftwing nor rightwing has all the answers or is right on everything. Left gets some right and so does the rightwing and vice versa. All up as I’ve said before I probably agree with the (tyranny of the) majority position here about 80 % to 20%.
I’m a feminist, an environmentalist, a secularist, an anti-racist and also pro-space exploration, pro-technology and science incl. nuclear and pro-USA, pro-West and pro-Humanity in general. I judge on the evidence not the ideology. On the individual not the “race” which is bullshit anyway , no such thing as fucken race and we’re all the third species of chimpanzee after bonobos. I’m also being fucking appallingly misjudged by some folks here wot dunno how to read!
Oh & its PZ’s blog and he controls what happens to me, not my haters here. Pretty sure I’ve broken no laws here and hope to keep making positive contributions of various things on various issues because whilst I might hate some of the commenters, I do love this blog and wish to make it better not worse by my presence.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:53 am
@348 & 350. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls & Beatrice :
You are wrong – and the answer is no.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:57 am
You despise non-Westerners
Not at all. I pity them.
I believe in the values of equality, liberty, fraternity.
I believe in human rights, in feminism, in looking after the environment and esp. fighting Global Overheating. In the pursuit of happiness and a better quality of life for all.
You don’t?
Don’t you ever even think you might have been wrong and misjudging me?
Because that is the reality.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 7:57 am
StevoR is right that British settlement began in 1788, not 1804. This does not, of course, make any difference to my main point: that one alternative to British settlement and annexation was no settlement and annexation by anyone, enforced by the British Navy.
nms:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:58 am
Well, this is plainly false.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:58 am
@158. anteprepro :
Nope. I’m a pragmatic realist not a wingnut. Also why do you say that, calling me name sand not addressing the actual substance of what I’ve said? Perhaps deep down you realise I am correct and you cannot argue only name-call?
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:59 am
SteveR
Did you say the things attributed to you in #153?
Do you still stand by them?
AshPlant:
December 10th, 2012 at 7:59 am
You’re right; we DO need a continuous infusion of jokes about fucking daisy cutter bombs being the best solution. They’re as vital as coffee.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 8:00 am
Bzzt! Major history fail by StevoR there: Ibn al-Haytham. Not unexpected from him of course.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:01 am
Nick Gotts,
But who would have brought civilization to the savages then? Surely they were much better off once the settlers came to murder them, steal their land and their children.
LykeX:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:01 am
Umm, in your haste to correct the year, it seems you forgot to address the actual point, namely:
How is that invalidated by correcting the year?
And it just popped right out of the blue with no precursors, too.
You’re drawing up a massive caricature, here. Muslims did a lot of work with regard to the scientific method, especially in emphasizing experimentation over simple observation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_scientific_method#Ibn_al-Haytham
Yes, they had their fair bit of superstition, but so did the west, so I’m not sure what the point of that is. Hell, we have people in the west to this day who explain events by appealing to angels and demons, so that whole line is just a red herring.
Finally, much of what we have from the Greeks, we got through the Muslim world. While European scribes were busy copying hymnals, Muslims were copying, commenting on and improving on Aristotle. If they hadn’t preserved those text, who knows what would have been lost.
Thanks to those Muslims scholars, European scientists weren’t starting from scratch, but had a long tradition to draw on; a tradition that not only preserved Greek knowledge, but expanded upon it.
You might be able to defend the idea that the precise modern version of the scientific method was produced by western culture (I’m not even sure if that’s true, but let’s just say it is), but it would be simply dishonest to ignore all the work that lead up to it.
nms:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:01 am
Tell us more about hyphenated-Americans, StevoR.
Hope springs eternal.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 8:02 am
And, of course, nuking Muslims.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:03 am
Calling Australian Aboriginal people savages was sarcasm, of course. Although, I feel dirty writing it even in the attempt to mock StevoR.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 8:06 am
You mean like believing that Newt Gingrich’s election would magically have produced a moonbase?
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:08 am
@355.Nick Gotts (formerly KG) :
Thankyou.
Of course, being realistic you’re suggested alternative was never going to happen. Human nature and thinking of the time being what it was / is. The world i(& our past history) is as it is not as we’d wish it to be.
What happened to the Indigenous First Australians was terrible and wrong I agree. I also think we should do what we can now to make amends and recognise their sufferings. I live on Kaurna* land and I appreciate that but cannot change the past.
A pity I agree.
@356. nms : Is it? Your supporting evidence for that proposition would be ..what then?
&&&&&
* See :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaurna_people
I’ve seen the Fountain of Tears at what used to be Colebrook house, I don’t fully appreciate but *try* to appreciate what happened to them. Yes, it sucks badly (massive understatement)and I am torn by this but what can I do?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:08 am
Oh, lord love a duck, then Get. The. Fuck. Out. Go, shoo, scat, there’s a whole wide internet out there awaiting your amazing contributions of ass-pulled bigotry, Cupcake.
It’s not wanted here. Nor are you.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:10 am
The trashy fuckwitted asshole bigot gets facts wrong when it goes against its bigotry. News at eleven.
As I said, you have nothing whatsoever to offer this community other than arrogant stupidity.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 8:11 am
I’m sure any genocidal maniac you care to name would have provided people with exactly the same assurance.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:13 am
StevoR,
Go away.
nms:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:18 am
One of your more hilarious commenting escapades springs to mind, which incidentally KG also just mentioned.
I wouldn’t have thought that “pro-moon” would be an ideology, but there you go.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 8:24 am
So what? It was an alternative, within the capabilities of those making the decisions, and one you ignored in your apologia for British imperialism.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:28 am
@363. nms : Yes, hope does spring eternal. I’m human, I’m fallible, I’m willing to be convinced if the evidence is there. As for hyphenated Americans, dunno really.
@365. Beatrice : Did I *ever* call them savages? Really? Because, no I don’t think so. Not that exactly.
@366. Nick Gotts (formerly KG) :
You mean like believing that Newt Gingrich’s election would magically have produced a moonbase?
Imagine you are in a flooded river being swept downstream to your death. Imagine there is one person throwing you a rope to grab onto to save your life. You don’t like this person. You know he is an ugly, cruel person who has committed many evils. But. You either grab this rope or you die. Do you grab the rop and try to save save everything or commit yourself to drowning out of spite and mistrust? That’s analogous to how I felt then.
Gingrich would’ve been an awful president. I hated having to support him. On the moonbase – on human expansion and future survival I felt I had no choice. Moot question now anyway. Hey, could’ve been worse, could’ve been Rick Perry or Santorum making that vital all-important pro-space exploration offer.
Really, really wish it had been Obama saying what Gingrich said in Newt<i(on)'s only good speech.
Also given a choice between Obama and Mittens – I’d have gone Obama in a heartbeat – not that I could voted in the US anyhow.
&&&
“Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics – and you’ll get ten different answers. But there’s one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years, or a thousand years, or a million years, eventually our sun will grow cold, and go out. When that happens, it won’t just take us, it’ll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-Tsu, Einstein, Maruputo, Buddy Holly, Aristophanes – all of this. All of this was for nothing, unless we go to the stars.”
- Commander Sinclair, Babylon 5, Season 1, Episode 4 “Infection”
Pteryxx:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:30 am
*hurk*
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:30 am
Hey Caine, who runs this blog again? You or PZ?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:32 am
Pteryxx:
Move over, Pteryxx, there’s going to be a lot of traffic in the vomitorium.
AshPlant:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Um, do you really want PZ to step in and arbitrate? He’s already slapped you down once that I know of.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:33 am
I missed that.
StevoR,
You are a piece of shit.
—-
If enough of us ask, can one of the monitors send PZ an email about StevoR?
I know that Thunderdome is (nearly) unmoderated, but StevoR har really surpassed quite a number of haters that have been banned in the past.
nms:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:37 am
Gosh, isn’t it a difficult situation when evidence and ideology (and Babylon 5) collide.
Does StevoR put anyone else in mind of a Very Serious Person?
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 8:38 am
Oh, lets see… stop stereotyping and demonizing Muslims, apologise for your racist slurs against Obama and African-Americans in general as quoted @153 above, learn what “cultural relativism” means…
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:38 am
What’s the matter, Cupcake? Seems to me if an intelligent person found a place to be a cesspit, they’d leave. Just trying to help you along, sweetpea, seeing as you tend to take a long time to get a clue.
After all, you’d never find me at the slymepit, because I do think it’s a cesspit. Then again, I have a fair amount of brain cells and I’m honest.
So, have a protip: Recognise when you aren’t wanted. Go the fuck away. Go to the moon. Please.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:38 am
@375. Pteryxx :
What’s that mean?
I pity them because they don’t have the opportunuities and advantages we do (incl. and esp. women and the non-hetereonormative) because of our priviledged Western lifestyles and opportunities. That wrong of me somehow? Stuffed if I can figure out how.
No I’m not a cultural relativist.
Not aware that’s a crime. Is it? Or is a culture that exploits women, has, say, slavery or human sacrifice equal to one that, say, y’know doesn’t?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:40 am
Beatrice, I’ll pass your post on to PZ.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:42 am
@382. aine, Fleur du mal :
I wish I could Caine, I really wish wish I could.
As for intelligent, meh. Never claimed to be that if memory serves. Stubborn, and fucked up sure.
If it helps I’m heading to bed now~ish. Too drunk and tired. Will consider and reply to other comments later.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:43 am
that’s Caine sorry. Obviously.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:44 am
Oh, thanks, Caine.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:46 am
No problem, Beatrice. All done and sent.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:51 am
@379. Beatrice:
See that’s be the bullying name calling rather than the actual argument.
(Looks at hands, arms, legs, feet, sniffs, rechecks.) Nope. I’m a carbon based, mostly water (& okay, quite a bit of beer human being.
Haters? No. Not so much I think. I don’t hate you. Dislike and think you’re wrong sure but not hate.
Done nothing to deserve banning in my view. PZ gets final say not you.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 8:51 am
StevoR@374,
Srsly? You’re quoting a piece of adolescent cod-philosophy from an SF series as a justification for supporting a lying scumbag like Gingrich?
Er, no, it isn’t. The scientific consensus is that the sun will become too hot for life on Earth to be sustainable (unless some kind of space shield is set up I suppose) in somewhere upwards of 500 million years. Not exactly our most pressing problem. Moreover, even if our descendants survive this, the current majority view among cosmologists is that most of the visible universe will have disappeared from view in about 100 billion years due to the accelerating expansion of the universe, and what’s left will eventually, and inevitably, become unable to support life.
That’s exactly parallel to, and exactly as stupid as, the common theist trope that if we don’t live forever, everything is pointless.
Ogvorbis:300-year-old Wood Elf:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:57 am
Damnit!
I finally got up the gumption to get in the Brownian line. And now there is no one in front of me. Because they’re all in the Anthony K. line.
And I can no longer use the ‘ball of Brownian Motion’ semidemijoke.
In my business, a VIP is a ‘Volunteer-In-Parks.’ Hmmm.
I’ve always wondered about that. Diogenes was looking for one good man. The Marines used to look for a few good men. And found them. Was Diogenes just too picky? Or are humanity getting more honester?
There are some conversations to which you have had a great deal to add. But, like all of us, you do have a blind spot. You make yours quite a bit more visible, though.
I have no idea if you are a good person or not. Based on your writings regarding Islam (and other non-Western societies), you are not someone I would want to meet in meatspace.
And we have a perfect example right there.
So, StevoR, do you still favour a preventive war against Iran? With nuclear weapons?
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:57 am
@PZ Myers : I respect you and like this blog.
I’m happy to abide by your judgement.
Please let me stay and keep contributing. I’ll try to do so positively & follow what conditions you set.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:58 am
Nick:
Yabbut, that’s Stevo’s idear of heaven, man.
I liked B5 as much as the next person, but I get the distinct feeling that the bulk of it went a sailing far over Stevo’s head.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:59 am
@ 391. Ogvorbis:300-year-old Wood Elf :
I don’t know and it is not my decision to make.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:00 am
:falls over laughing:
I’m okay. Really. Truly.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:01 am
StevoR
Don’t act more stupid than we already know you are. It’s perfectly obvious I wasn’t talking about you hating me.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:04 am
I am seriously sleep deprived. I should start working, but Imma try to nap a while. Have fun with the resident bigot.
StevoR:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:09 am
PS. I don’t agree with all my own past statements and have since apologised for (& clarified) some of them too.
broboxley OT:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:10 am
oh, ya hadda go there. Where do ya live sonny?
Ogvorbis:300-year-old Wood Elf:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:15 am
So you have moved from advocating a war with Iran (which, as a side effect, would cause millions of civilian deaths, even in a best-case scenario) to being not sure if you really want the war or not. Wonderful. So you are not about killing millions of civilians to eradicate a minor annoyance (yes, even an Iran with nuclear weapons would be, at best, a minor annoyance). You really are a piece of work, y’know?
Ogvorbis:300-year-old Wood Elf:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:18 am
that should be ‘at worst, a minor annoyance). Sorry.
chigau (無):
December 10th, 2012 at 9:44 am
StevoR #352
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:48 am
chigau,
He’d even let them use his bathroom!
Ok, where does that come from? I got the meme, but I wasn’t here yet at its nascence. A racist politician said that he would let a black person use his bathroom, or something like that..?
Pteryxx:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:54 am
What is the definition of “Benevolent Racism”?
Weed Monkey:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:08 am
StevoR
No, you have not apologised. You have claimed to be sorry for being offensive, not for what you have said.
Go talk to Graeme Bird.
Amphiox:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:20 am
Isn’t it telling that StevoR should so boldly point to Francis Bacon and the classical Greeks/Romans as the ones responsible for the development of the modern scientific method, but completely ignores the OTHER vital link in that chain, ie the Islamic scholars who preserved, extended and expanded (yeah they did more than just copy stuff, you know?) the classical texts and enabled their transition back to Europe where they could then be incorporated into the youthful education of people like Francis Bacon, without which the poor man would have had about as much chance of successfully developing the scientific method as an ice cube in hell?
Because Muslims just don’t register in StevoR’s view of the world.
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:47 am
A thoughtful post on what religion can and sometimes does provide to the poor.
I hope some of you will have a read and argue about it. The topic, that is, not the name of the magazine or their position on immigration or some such, but the topic presented. Its Pharyngula material, from the other side. I found it provocative, particularly Kaplan’s description and analysis of Turkish slums, as a 99% atheist myself, because I don’t see the advance of atheism and rational thinking in any way replacing the functionality of religion in this example, as is often advance that it can here and throughout the rational reality based community. Can anyone make the argument that it can?
TonyJ:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:52 am
this is a test
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:14 am
whoop — ‘advance’ should read ‘advanced’
LykeX:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:24 am
@md
I’m not quite sure what argument you’re trying to make. Skimming through the article, I see him attributing all sorts of nice things to religion without the slightest evidence that it’s actually responsible. E.g.
Note that those two countries, Algeria and Egypt, also both have 90+ percent Muslims. So, why are they not the same wonderful paradise countries? Whatever make Turkey different, it’s not religion.
Furthermore, I seriously question some of the attributions. Apparently, crime used to be a much bigger problem in the 80s. Yet, I think they were still Muslim back then.
Also, note the distinction “crime against persons“. That’s significant because Turkey has some issue with drug smuggling, forming a bridge into Europe. I guess religion doesn’t help with that.
Finally, I notice that all of this has to do with enduring poverty, not eliminating it. Personally, I’d much prefer not being poor to being poor and dealing with it gracefully.
So, right off the bat, I have to say I’m not impressed. I’d like to know why you are.
Ogvorbis: 300-year-old Woodcut:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:35 am
md:
So religion helps people cope with being poor? Christianity has made a cult of being poor for 1800 years. Hermits, monks, telling the peasants that they will get theirs in the afterlife. Here in the US, much of Christianity has embraced, wholeheartedly, the right-wing economic policies that helped to close down the ceramics factories of Western Pennsylvania, that make it far more profitable to import manufactured goods from third world countries with no unions, no minimum wage, no OSHA, and even less hope. Right wing religious groups even go so far as to blame the poor for their economic conditions via the execrable Prosperity Gospel — the poor don’t accept Jesus in the right way so God does not reward them with prosperity. Thank you, no. I’ll stick with secular groups working for economic opportunity, sustainable industry and agriculture and business, and equal rights for all human beings.
broboxley OT:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:46 am
md gotta watch those rice christians. they will turn on you in a heartbeat once you run out of rice
LykeX:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:49 am
One other little thing that bugged me. It’s not relevant to the argument, but…
That’s just disgusting and manipulative, yet the author seems to highlight it as something positive.
Even putting on my religious hat, I don’t understand that. In fact, putting on my religious hat makes it even worse. If I was still a believer, I’d call this “pastor” a servant of Satan. This commercialization of the sacred offends my atrophied religious sensibilities.
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
—I’d like to know why you are.
The description of the Turkish slum if taken at face value, impresses me, yes, because I believe religion isn’t going away anytime soon in the Islamic world. With regard to our own rising working class poverty, yes id prefer to see order over dysfunction. Can religion contribute to that?
I dont think im giving into hyperbole when I say the rationalist movement believes that the history-long example of man and his irrational, religious thinking can be overcome by simply replacing it with rational thought. I just don’t believe it likely, therefore I think its important to watch what people actually do. Turkey is a geopolitically important country, we should try to understand them as best we can. Not all irrational thinking is the same.
Ogvorbis — regarding Tabi’s story, do you think she’d have been better off had she skipped church, and started reading Camus’s Myth of Sisyphus (Im a fan, but…), found some local lad to take out to the shed for a shag (gov pays for birth-control, and if I get pregnant, my children’s well being), and started smoking cannabis (its legal in two states now, dontcha know)? We are always going to have relative poverty, always (though objective conditions will often rise). What is best for the poor to believe? Inner fortitude matters. Do you think Tabi wants to discuss sustainable agriculture practices, or whether trans-genders should be able to enter both sets of public bathrooms? Which is not to say those arent things worth worrying about, but that she’s worried primarily about her own life and travails, and should be. How should she approach it?
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 12:15 pm
hmmm, the author of the blogpost most definitely does not. The post story, maybe so. But, if you’re interested, the Pastor is writing into the comment stream over there and the blogger questioned him on that.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 10th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
Dont’cha think that the poor should be given stories of a reward after this life in exchange for obedience to authority in this life?
broboxley OT:
December 10th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
md believes that submitting to authority is the answer
I don’t
LykeX:
December 10th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
Irrelevant. The question is, can religion uniquely contribute to that? Can religion provide some benefit that no secular means can do? If you think so, I’d love to hear an example. It would be the first.
Remember, anything that has to do with community, education, ethics or tradition can be done by secular means.
So, are you arguing that religion can’t be gotten rid of or that it shouldn’t be gotten rid of?
I’m wondering if we’re talking past each other here. Would I prefer a helpful, beneficial religion to fanaticism? Of course. Does that mean that helpful, beneficial religion is better than helpful, beneficial secularism? Not in a million years.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 10th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
Contribute what? Irrationality, bigotry and demented reasoning. The following is cogent reasons for PZ to let you stay:
.
,
,
,
,
,
,
,
*Crickets chirring*
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Actually, no it’s not often advanced here, where most of the regulars recognise that atheism alone is not enough – and indeed, that many atheists are right-wing shits. What reduces crime and other social pathologies is not religion as such, but social solidarity: the perception that one is part of a social formation within which one is valued, and from which support is available. This may be local, as in the Turkish slum example (assuming it’s honestly reported), or wider. It is the most religious parts of the USA that have higher levels of practically all social pathologies; while reducing income inequality, which encourages social solidarity, correlates with lower levels of these pathologies: abundant evidence of this is available here. Lower income inequality also appears to correlate with lower levels of religiosity.
Ogvorbis: 300-year-old Woodcut:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Nerd,
You forgot
,
,
and
,
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Uniquely, yes, you are right LykeX, that is the proper question. I don’t know that answer, but do stories an examples like this give you any pause at all?
You point out that community, education and all the rest can be done by secular means. Lets agree for now it can be done (im not so sure about ‘community and tradition’). Is it being done? Do people want it done? Can you provide examples of peoples, once poor and religious, transformed by rationalist thought and materially and spiritually (in the broad, emotional sense of the word) prosperous?
Answer, I dont know. Can it be gotten rid of? How? Blogpost by aetheist blogpost, sure. Rounding up the religious, burning their holy books, tearing down their holy places, and forcibly educating rational belief, of course not. Though if the Soviet Union and Mao’s China are any example, that may be the only effective way. Not that you were suggesting such a thing.
Should it? Pragmatically, based on the history of the last century, no I don’t we should much try. I think we ought to be quite skeptical of mass movements aimed at converting people to some set of beliefs, whatever they might be. In principle I do think we’d be better off, but Im always left with a question. If so many people are religious, does it have some value, some important function to humans that I dont’ understand? The post I shared brought me back to that.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Possibly so (although “always” is a very long time), but the degree of relative poverty is most certainly alterable by policy, and the evidence is overwhelming that reducing it is beneficial.
vaiyt:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
By all means keep arguing, StevoR. Your ilk can only give further proof of how immoral you are when allowed to speak.
“…which he took entirely out of his White Western ass, with no precursors and no competition whatsoever!”
“Yeah, these other non-white guys did stuff but they weren’t important because they’re stupid and WHITE MAN BEST”
You can say that until you’re blue in the face, that doesn’t make it true.
Of course you’re pro-nuclear technology! We need it to nuke
Mordorthe Middle East?“…which take preference over everything else.”
“…unless they’re Arabs.”
“My ideology is the only one that is rational!”
“…unless they’re Arabs.”
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
Western Europe – although rationalist thought was only part of it, and may be more an effect of the welfare state than a cause.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
An effective welfare state. The decline of religion in western Europe shows no sign of ending, or even slowing down. The US religious right appear to understand the connection well enough.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
If so many people get cancer/dementia/atherosclerosis, does it have some value, some important function to humans that I dont’ understand?
Nepenthe:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
@Beatrice 403
The bathroom thing comes from a quote from a Louisiana justice of the peace who refused to marry an interracial couple.
Nepenthe:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Okay, Preview told me that my previous post was going to come out looking like a dog’s breakfast and it looks fine. Why is the computer lying to me?
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Nick, Im an American, forgive me, but to take an example with which im familiar, crime in New York City has decreased dramatically in the last 2 decades.
What you are arguing here seems congruous with Kaplans observations on Turkish slums, and yet, its hard for me to believe social solidarity and valuable social formation has increased in NYC in the recent past. Do you? Have evidence for it? The equality trust link you provided is broken, prob as a result of the new website. Googling that site and skimming the topics I see “Imprisonment” as one. And its starts out with an interesting claim
“In the UK, despite falling crime rates, imprisonment rates have been climbing steadily for decades…”
Well, isn’t it plausible that crimes rates are falling because imprisonment rates have climbed? Isn’t that a plausible explanation for NYC, also? It would mean relatively few people commit a high percentage of crime, and when they are imprisoned, crime falls. Tell me where i’ve got it wrong.
The Mellow Monkey: Caerie:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Nepenthe, Preview seems to behave very strangely with how it displays links now. It’s worse than useless when it comes to a post containing a link. No way to tell what’s broken and what isn’t.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Gee, you think it supports your fukckwittery? It refutes it, as US of A is becoming less religious.
Religious folks don’t read past abstracts on evidence. Hence, they don’t realize and acknowledge reality has a liberal bias.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Nepenthe,
Thank you!
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
–An effective welfare state.
Or a declared state-religion perhaps? Either way, or both, I agree that the results has been a less religious people. The story is not over for Western Europe though.
—The decline of religion in western Europe shows no sign of ending, or even slowing down.
Even among its new immigrants? I like to read Kenan Malik as much as the next guy, but is he the trend or the exception?
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
md,
Thanks for alerting me about the link. I’ll try again.
With regard to imprisonment and crime, you may or may not be right: rates of violent crime at least have shown reductions across a wide range of societies over the past couple of decades, and the cause or causes are disputed; but this is only one of many social pathologies which correlate strongly with income inequality.
Nepenthe:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Perhaps. I’m not sure why existentialism, sex, and recreational drugs are impediments to “inner fortitude”. (Poverty means you just can’t deal with ideas beyond “Jesus good. Work good.”? Poverty means you should renounce pleasure or else you’re not good?) I’m also not sure how that post supports the idea that religion is good for poor people (whatever that means); the commenter just asserts this. Rouzzo’s story doesn’t seem to support it, since she started pulling herself up by the bootstraps long before she started attending church.
I’m not sure why you’d think we’d argue about the title of the magazine. It’s right there on the masthead.
Ogvorbis: 300-year-old Woodcut:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
Can’t find the link (as I have stated before, I’ll need lots of practice for even a white belt in googlefu!), but I seem to remember reading a paper a few years back that traced environmental lead contamination and crime rates — the crime rate followed, up and down, about five to ten years after the environmental lead levels. Point being, there are many things that can alter crime rates.
broboxley OT:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
ah the iconic, quiet muslim turkish slum
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
SteveoR:
You’re the one who keeps complaining about this atmosphere.
You clearly don’t have much problem with it, since you Keep. Coming. Back.
You can give up the whining too.
You’re not convincing anyone.
You’re a trigger happy racist thug.
cicely (Chaotic Neutral Half-Elf Fighter/Magic-User/Cleric):
December 10th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
Am I the only one who sees “It’s better for the poor (or whatever disadvantaged group you want to designate) to stick to the comfort of Religion” as being, essentially, “The Truth? They can’t handle the Truth!”?
-
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
—If so many people get cancer/dementia/atherosclerosis, does it have some value, some important function to humans that I dont’ understand?
Analogy fail. People dont choose cancer. Yes yes, religion often transmits from parents to children. But free will exists on some level, eh? You must believe it does, or else you wouldnt toy with the idea that people could freely choose not to believe? The future is either unwritten, or it isn’t — in which case its futile to try to change it.
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
cicely,
No, you’re not.
It’s obvious that poor dears need something spiritual to keep them going, they couldn’t handle their lives otherwise. /sarcasm
(which of course might be true for some individuals, but certainly not for any arbitrarily chosen group such as “poor people”)
Nepenthe:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
@cicely
Nope.
And thus did I lie in 435. I’m pretty sure I know why md wants poor people to avoid Camus.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 10th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Why, yes, people choose poverty!
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Imagine poor people getting… ideas!
cicely (Chaotic Neutral Half-Elf Fighter/Magic-User/Cleric):
December 10th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
Or escaping from the social controls built into Religion?
(Was I not supposed to say that out loud?)
-
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
If you say so, jackass. Did Greek and Roman cultures just pop into existence out of the void and remain isolated in “the West”? What about Greeks and Romans who don’t fit the mold of “Westerners”?
If somehow they all count, how were they an influence on “Western culture,” if it’s supposed to be a given that Persians, Arabs, Africans and Asians of all sorts were not?
Why is it that racist shitpiles like you so rarely manage to spell out the implications of their ignorant fuckwittery for everyone else? Is it because you’re too fucking stupid to recognize how ignorant it is? Is it because you do know but don’t like being spit on for being the ignorant, racist assholes that you are?
Why is that we always go around in circles with you? Why is it that all of the other people on the planet are barely worth mentioning, just worth your delusional “pity” and abject fear?
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
Nope. There are choices which people willfully choose. They do not need to “freely” choose them, if that’s supposed to mean nothing caused those choices.
But an honest, sincere belief isn’t something you can simply “choose” to have in any case.
It’s not “written,” but if you’re just going to speak in meaningless clichés, there’s little point in discussing it or what is or isn’t “futile.”
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Why is that relevant? The point of the analogy is simply that the fact that something is widespread tells you absolutely nothing about whether it is beneficial.
Actually, over historical time, the transmission rate must be well over 95%; I would guess over 99%; and the choice of adhering to no religion has only been available to any significant number of people for a century or so.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
I’ve updated the killfile: http://tinyurl.com/7e6xqa2
+++++
BTW, does anybody still have a copy of Daniel Martin’s last update to his killfile (the one that worked back at ScienceBlogs)?
Not the 2009 version at userscripts.org/scripts/show/4107 — obviously I can still get that one — but the updates that were pushed out from snowplow.org/martin/greasemonkey/killfile.user.js ?
It might still be in your Firefox profile folder. If you’ve got it, could you upload it somewhere for me? I suggest zipping it and uploading to anonfiles.com if you don’t have another preference.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
I’ve updated the killfile, which I’m having trouble linking to until PZ whitelists it again.
pharyngula dot wikia dot com/wiki/greasemonkey
+++++
BTW, does anybody still have a copy of Daniel Martin’s last update to his killfile (the one that worked back at ScienceBlogs)?
Not the 2009 version at userscripts.org/scripts/show/4107 — obviously I can still get that one — but the updates that were pushed out from snowplow.org/martin/greasemonkey/killfile.user.js ?
It might still be in your Firefox profile folder. If you’ve got it, could you upload it somewhere for me? I suggest zipping it and uploading to anonfiles.com if you don’t have another preference.
Ogvorbis: 300-year-old Woodcut:
December 10th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
If one of the monitors is currently monitoring, dpitman just took a dump on the Ham thread. (Crossposted)
omnicrom:
December 10th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
How is a social safety net the same thing as religion? What Dogmas or ceremonies or rituals are inferred from Welfare? Totalitarian Communist regimes can possibly be argued to be state-created religions when they demand love for their leaders and imagine them as divine beings, but the basic concept of providing support for the poor and disadvantaged isn’t the same thing.
There’s no difference culturally between an immigrant family who has moved to a country after one or two generations and a family that’s lived in the same place for a millenium. If an immigrant moves from a heavily religious state to a less religious state they will be more religious, but that will change as they acclimate to the culture.
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
I like that it says “hush” now instead of “kill.”
But it’s too bad that it forgets everyone I had marked for certain death.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
No, definitely not: this is a bizarre piece of nonsense propagated by Rodney Stark, without anything in the way of evidence apart from the fact that the USA is more religious than western Europe. Most European states have had declared state-religions as long as they have existed. The decline of religion is much more recent, largely post-WWII, i.e. during the period that effective welfare states have existed – and has gone further in France, which does not have a state religion, than almost anywhere else.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
SG:
I have it installed and checkmarked, but no luck, I’m not seeing a thing. I’m using Firefox 16.
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Ethics is religion, remember? So is culture and anything else which isn’t entailed by the nonexistence of gods. That seems to be the one thing godbots and dictionary atheists can agree on. Atheists may not have much to claim, but it’s ours damn it!
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Oh, and one can add Australia and New Zealand, both of which show a decline similar to western Europe, and neither of which has a state-religion. An interesting question, which we are unfortunately likely to see tested, is whether destroying the welfare state would lead to reversing the decline of religion.
Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it!:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
So, uh, I realize this was awhile ago, but on the list of things about Turkey, this was cited:
This is only true if “persons” is defined as “men.”
Violence against women is reaching endemic levels, mostly so-called “honor” killings.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
Caine, let’s try some troubleshooting.
Can you put about:addons in your URL bar, go to the Greasemonkey scripts, right-click on FtB killfile, click Edit ( it might ask for a preferred text editor: the path to Notepad is probably C:\windows\system32\notepad.exe ),
and Ctrl-F for the line that begins with commenttopxpath
paste that line here.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Okay, I hope I have the right line here:
commenttopxpath: “//ol[contains(concat(' ',@class,' '),' commentlist ')]/li”,
sigbit: “.//cite[1]“,
replaceXpath: “child::node()”,
mangleBefore: null,
mangleAppend: null,
tabXpath: null,
precedingBit: ”,
followingBit: ”,
sigUserMatch: ‘$2′,
sigHrefMatch: ‘$1′,
aHrefAttribute: ‘href’, // sometimes title
get sigpat() {
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
Okay, I see the problem. Just a minute.
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
Michele Triblaut over at the Guardian, disagrees. with that last clause.
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
scuse, Michele Tribalat.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Somehow Wikia served you the old version again. I think this is just a serverside caching thing, and it’ll work itself out over the next couple days.
In the meantime, you can go to http://tinyurl.com/cr2n6h6 and where it says “Clear the cache of this page?” click OK.
Then try http://tinyurl.com/br84bez to install it again.
It that still doesn’t work, try http://tinyurl.com/bsgmnpw but I don’t recommend this last one, it’ll probably screw up your automatic updates for killfile in the future, and to get the updates working again you’ll have to go to the usual PharynguWiki Greasemonkey page and reinstall it (after this current caching problem goes away).
chigau (無):
December 10th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
My killfile is working just fine.
Did I just get lucky?
Firefox 17.0.1
Xanthë:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
PZ wrote:
Hypothesis: quite possibly these trolls click on the ‘notify me of follow-up comments’ box; without constant e-mail reminders hitting their inbox of what the current thread is, they not only lose interest, they lose track of when the thread closes and a new one opens in place of it. (Noticed this phenomenon elsewhere, e.g. with some of the dedicated trolls on say Manboobz.)
Beatrice:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
Working!
Thank you very much, strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more.
Rodney Nelson:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
Obviously I’m doing something wrong because I’ve dumped the old killfile, cleared the cache, loaded the new killfile, and end up with nothing.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:49 pm
chigau,
Probably. Different physical locations will get different servers, some of which have the updated version already, others of which will need their caches purged.
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
So what if she disagrees? I see evidence that over a span of a decade and a half, the same demographic of Algerian immigrants to France have become increasingly religious. So what? That’s one statistic out of many, and it’s hardly evidence against a general trend. What other factors is it leaving out?
A broader group is described toward the end:
In what sense are these people acclimating to the culture? For your argument to work, you must have assumed that they had acclimated in substantial ways to the culture. Showing that some people keep their religious traditions (or return to them) isn’t enough.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Sorry to hear that, Rodney. The only other thing I can think of is suggesting you edit it manually. If you want to, follow along with the instructions to Caine in #458 up through “Edit”.
Then here are the changes.
commenttopxpath: "//ol[contains(concat(' ',@class,' '),' commentlist ')]/li",should be
commenttopxpath: "//ol[contains(concat(' ',@id,' '),' comments_list ')]/li",and then
var scenariolist = {freethoughtblogs:[{scenario:wordpressScenario,xpath:"//ol[contains(concat(' ',@class,' '),' commentlist ')]/li[1]/descendant::*[self::cite or self::span][1][self::cite]"}]};should be
var scenariolist = {freethoughtblogs:[{scenario:wordpressScenario,xpath:"//ol[contains(concat(' ',@id,' '),' comments_list ')]/li[1]/descendant::*[self::cite or self::span][1][self::cite]"}]};Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
I don’t have time or patience for a full response to Tribalat, but the article reads like a watered-down version of the racist scaremongering we see from right-wing Christians and atheists alike. She starts out with a piece of obvious bullshit:
No reference is given, and I’d be astonished if anyone had ever made such a claim: there never was a period before WWII when there was any significant number of Muslims in France, and anyone pretending there was would instantly and rightly be dismissed as either ignorant or a liar, so there would be no possible advantage in doing so.
As for the decline in the proportion of children of Algerian immigrants professing no religion between 1992 and 2008, despite what Tribalat says there is an obvious explanation: when an aspect of your culture is under attack, there is a strong tendency to defend and assert it.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
Oooh, YES! Thank you, SG. You’re so patient.
bobo:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
*What* is with all the tone trolls?
Over at Butterflies and Wheels, the latest incarnation of Chadgething:
He also defends the right to free speech, saying that vile speech is totes ok as long as you don’t directly call for the murder of someone. Implying it is ok however!@!
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
Nick, regarding your assertion that an effective welfare state will attenuate religion over time, Im going to make what I think is a plausible assumption that im too lazy to evidence: new immigrants to western Europe use welfare at or perhaps even above the rate of native populations.
If that is so, and the statistics that Tribalat cite are true, why isn’t Islam withering among its young? Have we not waited long enough for the welfare state to work its rationalist machinations?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Rodney:
Okay, I did all that and it didn’t work either. Did it all again, nothing. So I clicked on ‘New User Script’ in Greasemonkey and up popped the killfile in notepad. I selected all and deleted it, then pasted in the one from http://tinyurl.com/br84bez
Nepenthe:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
*cough*
So, md, why exactly shouldn’t poor people be reading Camus instead of their Bible?
(I’m going to operate on the assumption that md simply didn’t see the numerous posts asking this question.)
Xanthë:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
sgbm ॐ rsstff, pm wrote:
Updated and tested to be working nicely on both Firefox and Chrome (the latter with tampermonkey installed instead of greasemonkey); thanks very much for your work. Incidentially, when did the word ‘kill’ get changed to ‘hush’? That’s a much better word for dismissing the words of irritating commenters from sight.
Nepenthe:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
When you assume you make an ass out of you, but not me.
http://oxrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/3/542.short
http://www.iza.org/en/webcontent/publications/papers/viewAbstract?dp_id=5515
Short answer: it depends on location and data used.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
SG, I don’t suppose there’s any hope you’d be willing to take over the Text Formatting Toolbar? The developer isn’t interested in keeping it updated. I really, really miss that add on.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
I strongly suspect you’re wrong, because most people who “use welfare” are over 60, and immigrant populations are younger than non-immigrants. But in any case, this is irrelevant, because I did not assert, and do not believe, that those “using welfare” are likely to be less religious than those who do not; indeed, I suspect the opposite. What I’m suggesting is more a societal effect than an individual one: it is the general sense that there is an effective secular safety net, that if you become sick or unemployed, and when you become old, the state will help you, that I propose has made the difference. Young Muslims in France are likely to feel precisely the opposite: that the state is their enemy.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
TFT ver. 0.1.4.10 is still working on my version of Firefox, but then I have Nightly Tester Tools loaded, which can cause a skip of the compatibility with the latest FF version needing to be run when updates occur.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Caine, thanks for helping Rodney. Your suggestion should work. I will pray to the brontosauruses just in case.
It doesn’t seem to be copylefted, so I couldn’t do so publicly. I’ll have a look at it later to see if the fix is within my threshold of laziness.
+++++
Xanthe,
Late September. Those using Greasemonkey’s automatic updates should have received the change soon afterwards.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Nerd:
*scampers off to do stuff* Oh gods, it still works! Eeeee. Thank you, Nerd. You’re all so patient with my idiocy today.
Weed Monkey:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Yay! Than you SGॐ, thank you very much.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Oh, nice!
Nick Gotts (formerly KG):
December 10th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
To elaborate #480 slightly: I “suspect the opposite” because both use of welfare, and religiosity, decline with educational level.
I find it interesting that you misinterpreted my claim in the particular way you did: like most rightists, you appear to have difficulty thinking about social questions on anything but the level of individuals’ responses to their specific circumstances.
Weed Monkey:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
re: Text Formatting Toolbar: maybe BBCodeXtra could be helpful? I’ve been using it since forever, as I don’t want toolbars eating up my limited screen.
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
For what it’s worth, TFT 0.1.4.10 is working with FF 17.0.1, and I don’t use Nightly Tester Tools to force it or whatever.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
Okay, I’ve just done a cosmetic update which moves the “[hush][hide comment]” into the same line with the nym, like it used to be.
Serverside caching issues again I’m sure. No support offered this time unless this change breaks the whole killfile.
*runs away*
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Weed Monkey:
I have BBCodeXtra, I don’t like it. No blockquote (yeah, I have it under custom, but it’s annoying) and I prefer the toolbar.
chigau (無):
December 10th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
My killfile has been hushfile since October 4.
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 4:58 pm
Really? It’s just one button, which can toggle the extra toolbar open and closed whenever you need it.
And I already have too much crap in my context menu. :)
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
I don’t know why I just now got “hush.” Greasemonkey 1.5…. Not many options to pick from except “Require secure updates” which I have checked.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
CR:
Thanks for letting me know. I am so used to using TFT. Now that I have it back and my tabs on the bottom, where they belong, I’m better now.
md:
December 10th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Nick, have to run for now. Your last comment is interesting and Id like to respond. I’ll just close with saying Im enjoying the conversation.
Hurin, Midnight DJ on the Backwards Music Station:
December 10th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
StevoR
Sorry to be the one to inform you, but it won’t matter. If the death of the Sun doesn’t end us, it’ll be the collision between the Milky Way and Andromeda which will happen about the same time. If we dodge that bullet we’ll have to contend with the “big rip” or entropy death or some other mega catastrophe that will occur a finite distance in the future. This universe is a death trap, and it will erase us and all memory of us eventually.
“And on the pedestal these words appear:
‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!’”
-Percy Bysshe Shelley
Weed Monkey:
December 10th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Caine:
That’s odd. For me it’s the first selection beyond ‘clipboard’.
Certainly it’s a personal preference. My old laptop’s screen is only 800 pixels tall so I don’t want anything extra on it.
cm's changeable moniker:
December 10th, 2012 at 5:22 pm
Thanks sgbm! I had to do Greasemonkey, edit user scripts, copy/paste, but I have hushfile again.
Weed Monkey:
December 10th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
consciousness razor:
Oh, that’s nice. I tried it a few aeons ago and at that time couldn’t get it away.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 10th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
You don’t get out of life alive. None of us.
– Doug Erwin.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 8:41 pm
consciousness razor,
Yeah, that might be it. I don’t recall whether Wikia offered SSL when I started hosting scripts there, but in any case I wasn’t using it. I’ve just now set the killfile script to use SSL for updates, so you can keep that option checked, but you’ll need to manually download the new version (third one today, I know) which has @updateURL, @downloadURL and @version in the headers. Serverside caching caveat goes here; wait a couple days if you have to.
+++++
Scratch this request:
BTW, does anybody still have a copy of Daniel Martin’s last update to his killfile (the one that worked back at ScienceBlogs)?I got it now. His website was only down temporarily today.
+++++
tests:
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT! WAKE YOUR CATS!
New version of Secret Comic Sans script now brings back Mr Gumby.
chigau (無):
December 10th, 2012 at 9:42 pm
i don’t understand any of this
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:44 pm
Wake your cats and ask them to explain.
Nepenthe:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
She’s just staring at me and requesting tummy rubs. I don’t see what that has to do with Mr. Gumby.
chigau (無):
December 10th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
‘wake the cat’?
You must be mad.
I value my skin.
[I suppose I could {use a can-opener} or {sharpen a knife}]
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
At http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Greasemonkey there is the Secret Comic Sans script. You might have to purge the cache first. If you get the new version installed, you’ll see a Gumby in my blockquote above.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
At PharynguWiki there is the Secret Comic Sans script. You might have to purge the cache first. If you get this new version installed, you’ll see a Gumby in my blockquote above.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
At PharynguWiki there is the Secret Comic Sans script. You might have to purge the cache first. If you get this new version installed, you’ll see a Gumby in my blockquote above.
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
I see no gumby. I was promised a gumby. Your brontosaurus can’t even get me a gumby? How pathetic.
Is he willing to provide a gumby, but not able? Then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is my lack of a gumby?
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Oh. Never mind. I purged the cache. LOL.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
I see the Gumby.
Perhapsh you have not properly performed the cache purging rituals. Try them again counterclockwise.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:02 pm
A HA
Now kiss my pope rings.
Xanthë:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
*mwah* Hey, this is fun!
consciousness razor:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:08 pm
Never. Double-poperdy is unconstitutional.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:13 pm
Bishop Bill Murphy is a secret Brontosaurusist. Catholic commenters, envious of his freethinking, say ridiculous shit.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 10th, 2012 at 10:45 pm
@ StevoR
Mwahahahaha…. (Lurk moar!!!)
Mwahahahaha …. The Greeks are the most mongrel of all (so called) Europeans. Hell, they even speak an Indo-European language! Like the Iranians!!! StevoR, don’t go digging around in the past to justify racism. It just ain’t gonna work.
This has got to take the cake!
Euphemism for Authoritarian.
@ All
Mmmmh. would this work as a nym?:
Xanthë:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
Quick question, is there an easy css modification to display hidden <abbr> text? I notice theophontes (坏蛋) put several hidden text messages in the immediate previous post, but in the new look FtB theme there is no indication (…) that they are there.
FYI, TIAT.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 10:59 pm
Damned misleading announcement! Suggests @updateURL can be HTTP while @downloadURL is HTTPS and “Require secure updates” will still work. As far as I can tell this is a lie.
Killfile and Secret Comic Sans now, and only just now, finally should update automatically for everyone (whether “Require secure updates” is checked or not) who installs them after this moment. The good versions are 6.0.1.
Sheeeeeesh.
Xanthë:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:01 pm
Discovered the answer to my own question: browsers like chrome require an extra line of css:
<style>abbr {border-bottom: 1px dotted black;}
</style>
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
You might want to specify only those with title attributes, and don’t forget acronym is “different” from abbr so it needs to be mentioned too.
abbr[title], acronym[title] {border-bottom: dotted 1px;}
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 10th, 2012 at 11:35 pm
@Xanthë
I just use the < abbr title=”" > tags for side remarks/snark. The downside is that some browsers (eg on cellphones) don’t show the contents, so better to only use for trivial asides.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
Set: 3 Mins, 24 Secs
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:44 pm
I feel so lost trying to follow you folks talking about all this kill/hush-file stuff, or HTML, or any of the other computer stuff. It comes so easy for some people. For others, like me…not so much.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 10th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
We can talk about how a duck evolves into a shoop overnight.
How theophontes is a great and magnificent leader who will never be overthrown.
And why PZ is a poopyhead.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 11th, 2012 at 12:02 am
@ SGBM
*Snorfle*
Reminds me…. there is a Monty Python for that.
Linky Linkytube.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 11th, 2012 at 12:07 am
@ SGBM
My support for the Politburo’s religio-military complex has not gone unnoticed, nor unrewarded, by Our Divine Double Papeness .
LykeX:
December 11th, 2012 at 12:22 am
I wasn’t sure if that was true of Turkey specifically, so I did a little googling:
Yikes!
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 11th, 2012 at 12:55 am
@ LykeX
Mr Backlash: “If your misogynist bigotry is failing to stop the onslaught of civilisation, then TRY HARDER!”
chigau (無):
December 11th, 2012 at 1:52 am
I want my uniform.
and bonk bonk on all your computerspeak
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 11th, 2012 at 2:05 am
@ chigau
{theophontes gives startled look over chigau’s shoulder, points}
Look!
{… scuttles off as chigau turns round}
opposablethumbs:
December 11th, 2012 at 2:29 am
Thank you sgbm. You have succeeded in making it possible for even the terminally-computer-illiterate like me to get things back where they belong – my ftb is graced with hush once more, and possessed of the proper elementals, yea, even unto the last gumbie.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 2:42 am
chigau, the main sense of ‘bonk’ in the Anglosphere is not the same as in your neck of the woods.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 11th, 2012 at 3:01 am
@ SGBM / Tony
I didn’t even know what a shoop was ’til today. Now I can even shop a shoop evolution! (Picture or it didn’t happen.)
Ogvorbis: 300-year-old Woodcut:
December 11th, 2012 at 7:06 am
theophontes:
That ain’t a shoop. That’s a shuck. Or a deep? A sheik?
chigau (無):
December 11th, 2012 at 8:40 am
John Morales #531
“bonk bonk on the head” is a Star Trek TOS reference.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 11th, 2012 at 10:17 am
Chigau:
Yes, it is, but ‘bonk = sexual intercourse’ is more prevalent these days.
chigau (無):
December 11th, 2012 at 10:36 am
We used to say “boink”.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 11th, 2012 at 10:48 am
@ Ogvobis
No, that is a picture of the midpoint of the evolutionary process. Don’t you ever listen to Mr Kenneth Ham? :
Duck —(evolves to)—>shoop => (implies) intermediary animal (shuck/doop/shoopaduck)
(I have offered to sell the image to the Templeton Foundation. Hold thumbs.)
@ AR
Fellini was most prescient. How could he imagine something so close to the Thunderdome?
Satyricon
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 11th, 2012 at 10:56 am
PS:
[Fellini] If we can find his lovechild with Alejandro Jodorowsky, we are onto a winner.
Linky:
Holy Mountain
theoblivionmachine:
December 11th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Ahem, random interjection from my feeds, which gives ‘coathanger-lobby’ a little something… extra.
No idea if I want to laugh or cry, but I’ll see after picking my jaw up.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/12/07/worst-marketing-decision-ever-drycleaner-puts-pro-life-message-on-their-hangers
Beatrice:
December 11th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
theoblivionmachine,
Those people have no shame.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 11th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
theoblivionmachine:
*speechless*
Janine: Hallucinating Liar:
December 11th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Just reading the link floors me.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 11th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
Oggie:
I like ‘shuck’.
****
Theophontes:
Shoop is the newly invented (per Nepenthe) singular form of sheep.
Nepenthe:
December 11th, 2012 at 2:21 pm
I’m partial to shoopaduck myself. Shuck is already taken, you see.
cm's changeable moniker:
December 11th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
Speaking of ducks, guess what I saw today?
A fifty-foot-high rubber duck. Floating down the Thames.
(I couldn’t tell if it had hooves or webbed feet underneath.)
*crosses fingers and hopes that preview’s not accurate*
Rodney Nelson:
December 11th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
SGBM, thank you for sorting out the killfile. It now works for me.
Ichthyic:
December 11th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
anyone who wants to have some fun dogpiling on Paul Nelson, or maybe wanted to ask him whether he will ever answer what “ontogenetic depth” means, he’s currently moving goalposts and dissembling over at Jerry’s blog:
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/a-marshall-mcluhan-moment-with-creationist-paul-nelson/
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 11th, 2012 at 5:40 pm
::shoopaduck::
Tee hee. Sounds like some kinda dance move. Distant cousin to the cupid shuffle.
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 5:58 pm
Tony, what I know about dance moves I could write in a large font on my pinkie nail, so I guess you’re speaking from a position of privilege.
(But then, I have the privilege of not knowing about dance moves! ;) )
–
Yeah, I’m snarking about the overloading of the concept of privilege.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
John, you’re a dishonest shit.
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:11 pm
ॐ, you don’t think I’m snarking about what I claimed I was snarking?
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:15 pm
I think that, as you have in the past, you are snarking about privilege in which there is no such overloading, e.g. the basic concepts of straight privilege, white privilege, male privilege, class privilege.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Moreover, I would like to inform you that, whatever its unstated referent, your joke is so fucking stale that it’s the sort of thing regarded as the height of wit in the Pit, where Stefanelli is getting praised for his new catchphrase: “white cock of authority”.
I hope you aspire to better.
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:28 pm
ॐ, ah, you consider that I’m dishonest because though I wrote that it was about the misuse of the concept of social privilege (i.e. overloading the term) you think that it was really about the actual concept itself.
(But do you at least agree that it’s silly for me to claim I’m privileged by not knowing about dance moves?)
SC (Salty Current), OM:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
Whose overloading, specifically? Who’s the target of your snark?
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
ॐ:
I hereby state it: the piece addressing ‘literacy privilege’ recently referenced by rq in the Lounge.
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:38 pm
SC, such synchronicity!
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:42 pm
I’m familiar with your oeuvre, John. So I read you as charitably as I read StevoR re daisy cutters. Surely you will not deny that you have at times portrayed this usage of the term as a misuse of the very word privilege.
See my #553.
It appears to be a shorthand for a particular manifestation of privileges: economic class, lack of disability, and the intersection of the two. You are welcome to speak more generally of those privileges if you prefer, but you’d be a fool to deny that the term’s referent is indeed a subset of social privilege.
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
ॐ:
‘Yes’ would have been shorter and much more direct.
1. Functional illiteracy may be due to social inequality or to personal incapacity — but it may also be due to a wilful lack of interest, lazyness or mere contrariness.
2. The idea that if I have some attribute or competence that another doesn’t means I’m privileged in that regard is a semantic conflation of the sociological usage of ‘privilege’ with its ordinary one.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 11th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Except for individuals who engage in code switching, that’s pretty fucking unlikely; but even if it were true, it would not take away the concept’s usefulness for talking about unearned advantages in literacy due to disability or economic class.
Therefore, granting your pretty fucking unlikely premise for the sake of argument, the best you could do with it is still to say that literacy privilege does exist.
This isn’t simply about an attribute or competence, but whether such are apportioned fairly. When you’re confused, like you apparently are right now, try substituting “unearned advantage” for “privilege”. Some attributes do not lead to society conferring upon someone an unearned advantage. Some do. The latter is what’s under discussion here.
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
ॐ:
Heh. If it’s unlikely that it may happen, it is possible and therefore can happen; the premise itself is can’t both be unlikely and true.
(Tell me more about how disability provides unearned advantages)
Mmmhmm.
Let me try that: “… the best you could do with it is still to say that literacy
privilegeunearned advantage does exist.”You think I am confused? Heh.
(What I actually wrote is tantamount to claiming that not all literacy is due to unearned advantage, and so referring to literate people as ‘privileged’ by their literacy is unwarranted unless one overloads the term)
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 11th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Just finished watching Sound of Noise. Very enjoyable.
consciousness razor:
December 11th, 2012 at 7:48 pm
You mean “disadvantages”?
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 11th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
If it’s unlikely that the sun will explode tomorrow, which it is, it is possible that the sun will explode tomorrow. And it is still possible to meaningfully posit what would happen if the sun did explode tomorrow — and yet it is still unlikely.
It is unlikely to be true in any randomly selected case, and unlikely to be worth talking about.
An advantage is a difference — though the advantage does not accrue to the person who has the disability. (This tiresome nitpicking against the likely intended meaning of a statement, it does make me think less of you.)
Try it using common sense, and you’ll understand that the substitution will sometimes works best like a circumfix:
“… the best you could do with it is still to say that unearned literacy advantage does exist.”
No, I suspect you’re dishonestly trolling. I said apparently confused.
I don’t know that it matters what it’s due to. It frequently constitutes an unearned advantage, and then is privilege.
And here is a non sequitur. They would certainly be privileged relative to those whose disadvantage is unearned.
Class privilege, for instance, exists even still if somewhere one person is poor entirely due to laziness.
cm's changeable moniker:
December 11th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Wait, what now? I’ve been reading Chekhov for nothing?
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
ॐ:
Precisely, therefore the proposition that it’s unlikely that the sun will explode tomorrow is not an unlikely proposition, unless one thinks that it’s unlikely that it’s unlikely that the sun will explode tomorrow.
</Captain Obvious>
Again: the proposition that something is unlikely to be true is true if that something is indeed unlikely to be true, and if the proposition is true, it cannot be unlikely.
1. But a difference is not necessarily an advantage.
2. My ‘nitpicking’ consisted in addressing that which you wrote rather than what I know you intended to express.
(You do realise I could not pick a nit that wasn’t there, right?)
3. Your estimation of those who pick nits is duly noted.
Wait, now I am confused.
(I’m apparently confused, but you don’t think I’m confused, so therefore I am confused when I ask you whether you think I am confused?)
Literacy is frequently not something that is earned?
(I wish I hadn’t had to laboriously learn it!)
Right. It does not follow that not every case of being literate constitutes a privileged status when compared to not being literate, because “frequently constitutes an unearned advantage”.
(I find your logic peccable)
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 8:38 pm
[memo to self: preview before posting]
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 11th, 2012 at 9:07 pm
Now, please go back and quote something from the discussion about privilege which you think parallels this.
What was said to be unlikely to be true in any randomly selected case, and unlikely to be worth talking about, is your claim that “functional illiteracy may be due to a wilful lack of interest, lazyness or mere contrariness.
This is irrelevant to what was said. You’re being stupid now.
What I wrote was not wrong. If it was also not misleading — and it evidently wasn’t misleading to you — then your nitpicking is not helpful.
Here is probable dishonesty. You should have noticed the qualifier: “nitpicking against the likely intended meaning of a statement”.
Right. I am relying on prior information about you which is not apparent to everyone in this thread.
No, what I said you were apparently confused about is whether an attribute itself constitutes privilege.
The advantages that accrue to a person due to literacy, relative to many people who lack such literacy, are what are frequently unearned.
Probable dishonesty again from you; the word “unearned” immediately preceded “advantage” and was thus obviously modifying it. Yet you pretend otherwise.
You are a dishonest shit. It is unfortunate. You can and should do better.
Probable dishonesty from you. What I said was a non sequitur was that “so referring to literate people as ‘privileged’ by their literacy is unwarranted unless one overloads the term.”
Class privilege, for instance, exists even still if somewhere one person is poor entirely due to laziness.
What this means is that someone could, theoretically, have more wealth than another person in a way that does not constitute an unearned advantage; but even so, it is still meaningful to speak of class privilege.
Or, regarding literacy privilege, as I already said: it would not take away the concept’s usefulness for talking about unearned advantages in literacy due to disability or economic class.
At this point I would like to invite you to talk more about the original issue — so that one of us stands a likely chance of learning something about it — and less about your beloved recursions and subtle inversions of logic. If you want to play games with me, there are better ones.
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 10:00 pm
ॐ:
You’re the one who introduced it, so how is it up to me to quote something from the discussion about privilege which I think parallels this? :)
But what you wrote was unlikely was that it was possible that this was a cause, though you later granted that very possibility.
You should have noted that I nitpicked about (not against) what you did write and not about what you meant to write.
No; since such advantages are predicated on having literacy and since literacy is earned (no-one is born with it or gets it without effort) it cannot be that the advantages it confers are unearned.
(Not that I dispute that some either have not had the opportunity (or lack the capacity) to acquire literacy — again, what I dispute is that one should assume achieving that status necessarily constitutes a form of privilege)
My probable dishonesty results from applying your advice: “When you’re confused, like you apparently are right now, try substituting “unearned advantage” for “privilege”” — and the subject is the concept of ‘literacy privilege’.
–
I’m all ears.
StevoR:
December 11th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
Well I received this in my email inbox today :
***
From: (senders address not showiing
Date: Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 4:48 AM
Subject: go away stevor
To: (my e-mail address removed)
if u dont leave pharyngula, freethoughtblogs, scienceblogs, badastronomy,
skepchick, and all related sites, VOLUNTARILY and forever, then ur name,
(MY REAL NAME IN CAPITALS), will get publicly associated with a collection of all ur
worst sayings
this will have repercussions for you in the real world
now go away
dont wait for pz to ban you
***
Charming bit of cyberbulling that isn’t.
Hope whoever sent that bit of hatred and menacing is proud of themselves.
I’ve forwarded it on to PZ Myers and Chris Clarke and I hope they take the appropriate action.
Anyone want to fess up to this now and save them the trouble?
John Morales:
December 11th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
StevoR:
Yes, that’s nasty and I think every regular here would condemn that. I myself certainly do.
(Note that it’s pretty hard to actually conceal all the originator’s details (e.g. the message path) — don’t judge possibilities by your own competence)
–
I also think there’s no legal impediment to you posting that email’s message headers in full, and I’m willing to bet people here can and will help you trace its origin if you do.
StevoR:
December 11th, 2012 at 11:18 pm
Thanks John Morales : I’m not that great with computers myself so help would be appreciated. I’ve mentioned this here :
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/11/stop-now/comment-page-1/#comment-509815
Hope that’s okay -and am happy to post whatever info I can if that’s considered ok by folks here esp. PZ. I’ll see what people say on this first before I do so.
StevoR:
December 11th, 2012 at 11:21 pm
(Cross posted from the Stop now thread – hope that’s ok:)
For what its worth I’ll certainly admit that in the past I have said some things I now no longer believe and aren’t proud of and suspect this is probably true of just about everybody.
I’m the first person to admit that I’m fallible, sometimes mistaken and have said a few silly things and been carried away when drunk and overtired and will try to do better in future.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 12th, 2012 at 12:02 am
That is completely out of line. Personal feelings aside, whoever sent you that threat is 100% in the wrong.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 12:04 am
Oh? Really? That include the horrible shit you’ve been spewing the last week, claiming that brown people are still terribly evil, because terrorism? That bombs are still good? That genocide is still good? That we’re all ignorant shits because you don’t know jack shit about history? Science is only Western, remember?
You’ve been spraying your toxic brand of shit all over, Stevo. Don’t expect me to get all weepy because some unethical moron decided to send you a nasty e-mail. I don’t agree with that sort of shit in any way, however, that does not change who you are or what you espouse.
carlie:
December 12th, 2012 at 12:07 am
SteveoR – posting those details might make the person immediately post your personal info in retaliation, which is what nobody would want to happen. Hopefully the PZ smackdown works.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 12th, 2012 at 12:09 am
StevoR:
Talking about preemptively bombing Muslims or making racist statements =/= saying silly things. When you stop engaging in fearmongering (you live in Australia, you are in no immediate danger of being attacked by Islamic extremists), stop advocating for bombing entire regions in a “kill em before they kill us” strategy, and stop judging all Muslims by the actions of some extremists…then you may find people accepting an apology from you.
StevoR:
December 12th, 2012 at 12:20 am
@575. Caine, Fleur du mal :
Total strawperson and NOT what I’ve actually ever said.
I don’t have any problem with “brown people” – although, yes, I oppose terrorism and Jihadists. I’ve never said having brown skin is wrong or makes someone “evil” and never would.
Bombs are simply one type of a weapon humans have invented. Good? bad? A tool that different sides use to gain military victory or use for terrorism. I’d rather there were fewer bombings not more.
I’ve NEVER supported genocide and do NOT think it is ever good or called for.
I’m not claiming *everyone* here is ignorant and certainly not on everything – some people know a lot about some areas and not much about others and I’m ignorant when it comes to some things myself, but I did correct you on the historical fact that Sir Francis Bacon was the first person to invent / discover the scientific method as we know it today.
Never claimed other cultures and peoples haven’t contributed or come up with good things too and never said Science is *only* Western just that the West came up with it as we know it today.
Who I am? I’m a human being and I try to be a good one. I think I mostly succeed tho’ like us all I have my moments good and bad.
What I espouse : environmental action to fight Human Induced Rapid Global Overheating (HIRGO) as I prefer to more accurately term “global warming”, Feminism and treating all people equally, humanely and fairly regardless of skin colour or sexual orientation a secular society with religious dogmas kept away from power, having science better and more widely taught appreciated and understood and yes, what I see as the quintessential Western values of liberty, equality and opportunities to pursue happiness for all.
I think you have misread me and thus misunderstood and misjudged me badly.
Silentbob:
December 12th, 2012 at 12:20 am
Under the circumstances, since I may have inadvertently inspired this, I want to make it clear that I find this sort of blackmail absolutely despicable, and I don’t personally have any problem with StevoR continuing to post on this blog, or any other.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 12th, 2012 at 1:12 am
StevoR:
STOP.
Just stop.
You keep denying and people keep quoting you. When are you going to be honest and fucking own what you have said?
No, the words ‘I advocate genocide’ do not seem to have been uttered by you, but the preemptive bombing practices you advocate would have that as a result.
The racism you’ve displayed is evident to anyone who realizes that Muslim identity is tied into their beliefs. When you question why someone would affiliate with Muslims, YOU ARE MAKING RACIST STATEMENTS.
You fail to acknowlege the way words are used in the real world. Get these damn dictionary definitions out of your head!
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 12th, 2012 at 1:18 am
While you’re at it, quit whining about how mean the Thunderdome is if you’re going to keep coming here whining. God you are a broken fucking racist record. You have not shown any consistent change of heart. You have claimed the drunk defense for some of your words. Sorry, as a bartender, I have plenty of experience dealing with drunk people. You did not say anything you didn’t mean. Own up to what you have said. That-not whining about the meanies here-will lead you down the path you THINK you have already completed.
LykeX:
December 12th, 2012 at 1:39 am
Neatly ignoring all the work that went before that, much of which was done by Muslims.
If you’re trying to illustrate how reasonable you are, this might not be the best example to pick.
Unless you’re being incredibly narrow in your definition of science “as we know it today”, you’re just plain wrong:
http://explorable.com/history-of-the-scientific-method.html
Hypothesis testing, controlled experiementation, replication and peer review. Sounds a lot like science “as we know it today”, no?
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 12th, 2012 at 1:41 am
Well, I proposed it as a parallel to your notion that “functional illiteracy … may also be due to a wilful lack of interest, lazyness or mere contrariness”. Illiteracy is unlikely to be due to such. That was the parallel.
I didn’t see anyone introduce any other parallel with anything like “‘illiteracy is unlikely to be due to such’ is an unlikely proposition.” You got weirdly recursive there for no apparent reason. I’ll try to ignore it, since you won’t explain its relevance.
What the fuck? I didn’t “later” grant anything. You are full of shit. Just plain dishonest.
What I wrote was not wrong. If it was also not misleading — and it evidently wasn’t misleading to you — then your nitpicking is not helpful. Shithead.
This part is false. Someone who is paid more for their literacy, relative to someone whose literacy is hampered by disability, did not earn the pay differential. It exists because the other person is unfairly disadvantaged.
It doesn’t necessarily. In a world where no one is unfairly disadvantaged from achieving that status, it would not constitute privilege.
Your probable dishonesty probably results from fucking around carelessly. It should be evident that literacy itself is not the same as the advantages it confers. “Unearned” was a qualifier on “advantages”, not on “literacy”.
Chess: play by forum? I’m not very good at it, but I’d gladly trade it for this conversation.
+++++
StevoR,
In this particular case, you’ve been treated unfairly. I’m sorry to hear about it. I hope this threat is not too stressful for you. Have some tea.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 12th, 2012 at 1:44 am
I hope that didn’t come off as snarky. I meant, like, do something nice for yourself to take the stress off. That’s all.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 12th, 2012 at 2:50 am
consciousness razor (on this thread),
Yeah, PZ still needs to get around to that. This might be one of those things he mentioned where the CSS is redundant and confusing? I don’t know what it looks like from his end.
Secret Comic Sans will do it with <q cite=creationist>, but of course the person you’re quoting is unlikely to see it.
StevoR:
December 12th, 2012 at 6:45 am
@577.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
I wish that were true but see :
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/police-probe-links-to-islamic-centre-after-melbourne-terror-raids/story-e6frg6nf-1226473011258
&
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/the-scourge-of-muslim-terror-is-growing-with-the-rise-in-followers/story-fn56avn8-1226475172746
&
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s3100693.htm
Now, okay, its unlikely that I’ll be killed by Jihadists but it certainly isn’t impossible and nowhere onEarth is immune from their threat. The thing about terrorism is you never know where and when it will strike and it generally targets civilians in cowardly unforeseen attacks.
I don’t think that’s what I’m doing. I don’t advocate that.
Alright there might’ve been one night was I was really pissed (in emotional and alcoholic senses of the word) and went too far and I’ve already said that I was wrong about that and regret saying that and apologised for it.
I do think people have really jumped to conclusions on me here without actually understanding what I’ve actually been arguing – and, okay, maybe I could’ve been clearer, but I’ve tried to be.
StevoR:
December 12th, 2012 at 6:51 am
@582. LykeX : Okay, that stuff on Ibn al-Haytham coming up with the scientific method is new to me.
I did know – and am willing to acknowledge that the Arabs kept a lot of the Greek knowledge alive during the dark ages and contributed a bit in some areas themselves such as Algebra.
Similar to the modern scientific method is not of course identical but certainly happy to acknowledge the Islamic world made some contributions to modern science and had some great scholars and thinkers at the time.
StevoR:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:00 am
The second link in # 586 is leading to a paywall now? Damn, wasn’t supposed to do that. Oh well see :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Australia#Militant_Islamist_Incidents
instead which has the wiki-basics.
vaiyt:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:54 am
From where does that follow that we should go to the Jihadists’ countries and kill their people? Don’t dodge the fucking question, shithead bigot. Own your shit.
consciousness razor:
December 12th, 2012 at 8:36 am
You get that this means that saying X is not ‘saying silly things,’ yes?
Stop there. Don’t just latch onto the description of “fearmongering” or the danger you think you’re in as an Australian. Don’t cite articles.
That first statement quoted above is true. That sort of thing — even if you never said it or if it isn’t what you think now — is not merely saying “a few silly things.” It’s about as far from silly as I can imagine.
Do you want us to think you don’t believe those things anymore (or never really said them or didn’t mean it that way)? Or do you want us to think you believe right now that bigotry and warmongering, would just be “silliness,” if you had really said/meant them*?
*Which you could then go on to deny, like the dissembling, bigoted liar you are.
If I’m not mistaken, you’ve said similar things in the past; this is because you really are a bigoted warmonger who doesn’t give a shit about these people, even though you may retract, piece by piece, specific positions that are problematic (while leaving the basic foundation of bigotry). So the repetition leads me to think you really do think that. But if you don’t/won’t acknowledge how serious these issues are, don’t even bother with your pretend apologies. They don’t count for shit.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 12th, 2012 at 9:16 am
[terrorism]
OK, let us just slow the fuck down for a bit and go online:
Linky:
Daily Beast
AJ Milne:
December 12th, 2012 at 10:11 am
Thunderrupt:
Kathleen Hanna (Bikini Kill, etc.) was on CBC’s Q just now. Several aspects of the interview struck me as interesting to the online/Gnu scene, etc. Especially a bit where she’s talking about guys who came to the shows, paid the $5 or whatever apparently just to throw a bottle at them, and this line about how the sexism in the punk movement was very definitely there, and it was like this previously unmentionable pimple they were popping just by being there.
I was de-networked at the time (and have to disappear again like immediately) but a lot of their stuff shows up downloadable within a day or so… Show’s site is here.
thunk, cold air advection:
December 12th, 2012 at 11:45 am
Yeah, StevoR, let’s talk history.
If you knew anything about it, you’d realize that Europe was very much peripheral to the state of global affairs, constantly fighting itself, and just borrowing other technologies from the Islamic and East Asian worlds. The renaissance was all about “Ooh, the Muslims have found culture and Aristotle etc, let’s have some!” In the 1600s, China had an advanced market economy; earlier, they built the Grand Canal to foster widespread trade, the Great Wall, Zheng He’s voyages (which might have squished European colonialism had he not been stopped early), and the Monsoon Marketplace in which he had traded, let alone the adoption of eastern clothes producing a massive trade deficit in Europe.
Honestly, the only reason we’re still talking about Europe in such terms is luck and a very slight military development advantage.
Amphiox:
December 12th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
Regarding the “proposition that the sun will explode tomorrow”;
The sun WILL explode tomorrow. It will explode today. In fact it is exploding right now. Has been exploding for 4.5 billion years.
If it stopped exploding, when it stops exploding, it will collapse under its own gravity into a white dwarf star. For the duration of its main sequence life the sun and all other stars explode continuously with more or less just enough force to counterbalance the inward crushing pull of their own gravity.
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused):
December 12th, 2012 at 1:21 pm
Cyberbulling.
-
Nowhere on Earth is immune from threat. Period. Nutjobs are mobile. Horses cheat.
-
Beatrice:
December 12th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Thanks for the hushfile again, SGBM. It makes hanging around here so much more pleasant.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 12th, 2012 at 2:04 pm
At PharynguWiki ( http://tinyurl.com/f76cy9r ) there are now scripts which change the default tab in the right sidebar — so for instance you can make FTB Recent your default, or Comments and FTB Recent.
Inspired by requests by Crip Dyke, SC, Pteryxx and brucegee1962, so I’m mentioning them in the hope that they’ll notice and find what they’re looking for.
By the way, you can get (imho) better results by using NoScript and telling it to forbid FtB from running its own scripts. This makes both FTB Active and FTB Recent appear at once, one below the other. (NoScript does not override Greasemonkey, so you’ll still have hushfile.)
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 12th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
I’m glad to help, but it’s no big deal. (Because honestly, if the site ever changes so much that fixing the hushfile becomes a big deal, I’ll probably quit updating it. :)
*waves* to all the other people who’ve been so kind as to thank me. You can thank SQB too, as the current version has not diverged much from his. And Daniel Martin, the original author, might appreciate a kind word at [email protected]
AJ Milne:
December 12th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
The Kathleen Hanna thing is up now. Audio popup available through here.
Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it!:
December 12th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
ॐ, could you advise me? I cannot persuade Chrome to install the extensions.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 12th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
Esteleth,
I don’t use Chrome, so I can’t provide detailed help, but Xanthë got killfile working with a Chrome extension called Tampermonkey.
I would try that first, without adding anything — if it doesn’t work on its own, someone on the wiki’s Talk:Greasemonkey page many moons ago said this:
Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it!:
December 12th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Ok, thanks ॐ. I’ll talk to Xanthë.
*googles “Tampermonkey”*
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
Is it possible for a person to disrupt wireless units and just wireless units? Because I had the 5th frigging unit die on me last night. Just now got the new one up and running. *sigh*
Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken:
December 12th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Two words explain it all: Quantum Horses. Yup.
The last time I put in a wireless router, it took me three tries. Not three tries with the software, three routers. Luckily no problem returning/trading them in at the store. I blamed the Quantum Horses then. Same thing for you, Caine.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 12th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Like a wireless internet device? I dunno, probably, but typically a cracker in your neighborhood wants to share your internet connection, not break it.
The above is true. Now I talk out my ass: for all I know, there might be interference on the wireless channel you’re using, and for all I know, this might somehow damage your equipment. (Is this nonsense? I am not an electrical engineer.) Most wireless networks run on channel 6 by default. Maybe try switching to channel 1 or 11.
nms:
December 12th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
For anything that breaks so consistently, the problem might be what you’re plugging it into.
Anthony K:
December 12th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
Hoo-boy, have I been there. Yowch!
So, whatcha all talkin’ about?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
Ogvorbis:
And here I thought it was the Quantumn Tomatoes.
SG:
Yeah. The one that died last night was a Verizon jetpack. Before that, 4 Verizon mifi things died mysteriously and prematurely. I live in a town of 78. I know every house that has wireless and those people know if they even think about piggybacking on my connection, theirs will be terminated with extreme ruthlessness.
I’m willing to entertain any theory, wacky or otherwise. I can barely keep one of these things functioning for 6 months.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
nms:
Happens no matter where I plug the damn thing in.
cm's changeable moniker:
December 12th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
Caine, do you still have the busted ones? If you take them apart, they’ll usually have a couple of 3/4″ tall capacitors on the circuit board. Have their tops popped outwards? (So they’re convex rather than flat with three impressed lines on them.) My Linksys router blew up like that during a thunderstorm. If so, a power conditioning strip might help. Unplugging during storms is probably also sensible.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 6:25 pm
cm:
No, I don’t. We put the extended protection on them, so the old ones get sent back when we get a new one. Everything in this house is on a power strip, but as for storms – not one of them died during bad weather.
keresthanatos:
December 12th, 2012 at 6:38 pm
Try getting a UPS (not SPS) for sensitive devices.
If that doesn’t help, start thinking about other rf devices (microwave, ham broadcast, radio stations, industrial process, etc.).
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 6:47 pm
Keresthanatos:
Hmmm. The microwave is a bloody long way from my studio, where the unit is (big old house), as for industry…that’s a huge no. We live serious rural, in a town of 78. We have churches, a saloon and a post office.
I don’t know about ham radio. We are lucky we get any sort of connection, though. Without the signal booster, you can connect to the net, but that’s all. Can’t surf, as a page won’t load without the booster.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 6:48 pm
I will look into a UPS for sensitive devices – thanks for that. I am so tired of replacing these damn things.
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused):
December 12th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
But, Caine—Quantum is everywhere. It’s in the rules.
-
John Morales:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
cicely,
It simultaneously is and it isn’t.
(Chunky!)
keresthanatos:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Are you on a 50hz or 60hz AC system? Do you have a solar or alt. energy system that has an inverter? This includes any battery backup systems that you have pluged into your household power system.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
Keresthanos:
60hz.
Nope.
Cicely:
Yes, but why does it have such an appetite for my wireless?
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
Quantum rats.
Quantum penis.
Quantum cephalopods.
Yup, quantum goes with everything!
keresthanatos:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:53 pm
Do light bulbs have a short life in your house?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Keresthanatos:
Nope, they do great.
keresthanatos:
December 12th, 2012 at 7:59 pm
damn, so much for grounding problems. are you at the end of a power line (as the house where the power line ends ?
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Keresthanatos:
Another no, I’m afraid.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 12th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
@ cicely
Thank goodness I did not make it to the race track yesterday!
@ Caine
Apropos Keresthanatos comments, it might indeed be something like “brown power” that can cause problems like that. In which case an UPS would be the way to go.
And cm’s “capacitors”. These are miserable little fuckers. Forever blowing up. And with a particular reason: Many are made in China with incomplete stolen specifications. The result is that they produce H2 and explode. Loudly even. The solution is to replace with Japanese (marked as such for this particular reason) capacitors. What might also happen, considering you are pretty rural, is that the whole batch they are replacing your devices from is FUBAR.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Theophontes:
This seems most likely, by far, seeing as no other electronic devices suffer the fate of the wireless units. Well, the new unit started life here today, so I suppose we’ll see just how long this one makes it.
Lofty:
December 12th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
Caine, have you googled the item model numbers in question with the word “problems” added? A world of internet whinges may open up to you. (It’s what I do before bidding on electronic goodies on ebay) Some products are just crap.
theophontes (坏蛋):
December 12th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
Chinaoriginally Taiwan. They pop (heh) up in Chinese (mainland) products too.theophontes (坏蛋):
December 12th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
@ Caine
Brown power is nefarious. Tardigrade level nefarious. It can do really weird stuff to electric motors, electronics etc. I would not discount it completely.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 12th, 2012 at 10:25 pm
Lofty:
No, because it wouldn’t do much good to read more whinging. Unfortunately, due to our location, we’re stuck with damn things.
Theophontes:
Oh, I know it is and it’s a known issue where we are, which is why the house is bristling with power strips, surge protection and the like. Back when we had the monster aquariums running, we had extremely expensive filters running and the like, so we took every possible measure to make sure things were protected. As I said, this isn’t happening with any other electronic device in the house. It’s only the Verizon wireless units.
John Morales:
December 12th, 2012 at 11:20 pm
[TW]
I put this here and not in the Lounge, because it’s depressing.
I am very grateful to Pharyngula for awakening my conciousness about some things, so that when I read stories such as this one I have a better perspective with which to understand their significance.
Man’s sexual abuse ‘kept in the family’
Koshka:
December 12th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
Caine
I would suggest you are getting replacements from the same faulty batch. There is probably not much you can do except hope they run out out of the faulty batch ones. These things probably cost less than $5 each to make and the manufacturers will shop around to save every cent. This will include using inferior components.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 12th, 2012 at 11:54 pm
John:
I am glad you have been awoken to various social injustices. I also like seeing emotion from you. Sometimes your responses have a clinical detachment to them. Thats not always bad mind you. I just like seeing more of a balance (not that you owe such to me or anyone).
…
That story is horrific. That the mother kept quiet the whole time…^rage^. That the guy abused so many female family members…^unbridled anger^.
rorschach:
December 13th, 2012 at 3:45 am
xhtml->extra->quote
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused):
December 13th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
So, then: an unlimited license to molest female relatives, in trade for not causing “talk” (i.e., not “dragging the “family honor” through the mud”), would be my guess. I’m sure his victims thought it was an equitable trade.
</sarcasm>
-
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 13th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
While digging up this link for bishoptakesknight — [In Brief] Do Feminists Care About Men’s Issues? (A handy list!) —
I started to read the comment section. It answered a question that had been unresolved for me for a while:
Is valeriekeefe just legitimately angry, or is she a malicious MRA troll?
Answer: troll.
Look at how she treats Miriam when Miriam is responding to another malicious MRA troll.
TonyJ:
December 13th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Test?
TonyJ:
December 13th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
Can anyone see this post? I can’t.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 13th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
What was the consensus on butthurt? Gendered slur or not?
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused):
December 13th, 2012 at 3:30 pm
My opinion? Not. Everyone has a butt; anyone’s butt may be hurt, whether as a result of teh secksing, or paddling, or otherwise.
-
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 13th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
Cicely, I agree that anyone may have a butt which smarts, however, it came to light on another thread that yes, it is often used as a homophobic slur, so it’s out. I have no wish to provide cover for such douchecakes.
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused):
December 13th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Ah. Okay, then.
-
consciousness razor:
December 13th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
For anyone interested, Sean Carroll finally wrote a little summary on his blog about his impression of the Moving Naturalism Forward workshop back in October, and put up all of the videos. (Looks like it’s about 15 hours or roughly 10 metric fucktons of arguing and philosophizing….)
StevoR:
December 13th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
I’ve prepared a few replies for some folks here, can’t answer everyone but think these cover the main points and one’s I promised to answer, if others really want me to reply to their points please let me know.
@ John Morales – finally found your questions I think – these the ones? :
@388. John Morales : http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/11/29/thunderdome-10/comment-page-1/#comment-502331
I’m not sure, it depends on the exact situation and principles at the time. It is obviously best if wars can be avoided that they are avoided but when war has become inevitable sometimes, just occasionally pre-emptive strikes may be the best course of action.
Off the top of my head? No. I could look it up but guess you want me to guess? I know that Indonesia is the most populous Muslim nation and that there are plenty of Muslims spread all around the world. It would depend on which nations exactly you consider to be the Middle East / South West Asia whether you include Pakistan, Afghanistan and Egypt in that or not. Maybe 50% or even 45% or so down to 30% if we’re really strict on which countries count? That in the right range / ballpark?
I don’t know. It didn’t happen and the Indonesians did eventually arrest most of the terrorists involved so with hindsight, no I guess not. At the time that option was never suggested by anyone that I recall and certainly not advocated by me then.
@ 345. Amphiox – a few comments below that one on a previous thunderdome.
What is this third way Amphiox and why do you think it hasn’t already been tried and failed?
@@153. Silentbob – 8th December 2012 at 4:48 am (UTC -6)
(1) I think you cherry-picked and that some of those out of context – for instance ignoring that I clearly stated I believed Obama was born in Hawaii – but I guess you did link to the original threads so okay.
(2) Would be correct there. My views have changed on some of those issues over time.
(3.) Having another username on another blog is no big secret. Messier Tidy Upper is a whimsical astronomical reference to the Messier catalogue of Deep Sky objects (galaxies, nebulae of various types, star clusters and a supernova remnant) which makes less sense to use on a non-astronomical blog. Here on FTB I am and always have been StevoR.
StevoR:
December 13th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
I’ve been arguing here in self defence because I’ve been accused of racism and bigotry and I know that’s not true. Yes, I have my faults, I’m not neurotypical, its no big secret that I have a few mental abnormalities, my brain gets stuck in certain grooves and I’m somewhat of an alcoholic. (Trying to cut down lately and on the light beers mainly at the moment, FWIW.) That doesn’t necessarily make what I say wrong or have any relevance to my arguments here. Because I feel very strongly on some issues and think I’ve got a good case I’ll argue it like, I’d say, everyone else would.
A lot of people here have been wrongly claiming I’m all sorts of horrible things that I know I am not.
How do I prove that to you all and show I deserve another look and chance? What would y’all suggest?
I’m happy to promise not to mention anything to do with Muslims again here for an indefinite period of at least many months and I’m willing to ask PZ to put me on automoderation for a while if he’s willing to agree and folks think that will help? I really don’t want to be restricted to thunderdome since I’d rather comment anywhere else and I do want to make positive contributions here since I enjoy this blog and participating on it, mostly.
(Will cross post to the “Stop now” thread too if that’s alright, apologies if its not.)
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 13th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Well, you’re wrong about that. It’s not terribly surprising — a lot of racists don’t consciously know that they’re racists. But this, for instance,
is an extremely racist comment. Your opinions about African Americans are just plain racist, prima fasces.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 13th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
That would not mean you had changed your bigoted stance in regard to Muslims, StevoR. Do you really think we would all forget the evil shit you have said, the deep offense you have caused, if you simply stayed ‘off the subject’ for a few months?
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 13th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
TonyJ,
I couldn’t earlier. Caine’s 643 was 641 for a while. So, for some reason, your comments were going either into moderation or the spam filter. I guess if I were you I would try commenting again now.
PZ Myers:
December 14th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Yeah, the spam filter was going nuts. I approved a giant backlog of about a hundred comments trying to clear it.
Amphiox:
December 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Great frakking gaseous gods, StevoR, do you EVEN REALIZE what a racist, bigoted statement this even is?
Here you are, presented with a series of alternative self-defence options, and your FIRST ASSUMPTION, your NULL HYPOTHESIS, your default position, the thing that you demand positive evidence to move you away from, is that only the genocidal and near genocidal options work, and that everything else does not?
You see, rational people, humane people, NON-RACIST, NON-BIGOTED people, DON’T DO IT THIS WAY. They do it the OPPOSITE WAY. Their null hypothesis is that the self-defence options that do NOT involve genocide or the risk of genocide are the ones that should be assumed to work first, tried first, and they demand positive evidence to DEMONSTRATE that these options do not work AND that escalating to genocidal and near-genocidal options actually would work, before advocating for them.
Flipping-Mohammed-kissing-Jesus-on-the-other-turned-cheek-while-Buddha-officiates-and-Tsukiyomi-delivers-Marduk’s-ring, if you observed Eta Carinae’s polar axis shifting towards earth, is your FIRST ASSUMPTION, YOUR NULL HYPOTHESIS, THE THING YOU DEFAULT TO BEFORE MORE EVIDENCE IS FORTHCOMING that the reason for this is hostile (jihadist sympathizing) aliens are deliberately doing it with intent to irradiate the solar system with a gamma ray burst???
You are doing the same thing here. It isn’t reasonable to even consider such a thing in astronomy. Why is it reasonable to consider such a thing here?
Amphiox:
December 14th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
It’s not like good intelligence and police work hasn’t stopped 51 terrorist plots since 9/11.
Or the Iron Dome system wasn’t successful in intercepting Hamas missiles.
Or that it is utterly unreasonable to at least wait for suspected terrorists to cross your borders and demonstrate at least the possibility of imminent hostile intent before blowing them away.
Or that Osama bin Laden wasn’t taken out in a targeted operation involving boots on the ground and visual confirmation such that his innocent neighbours weren’t vaporized by a misaimed missile and that the only civilians put directly in harms way were bin Laden’s own close associates.
But nooo, none of that is enough for StevoR. None of that “works”. It HAS to be invading someone else’s country, bulldozing someone else’s home, dropping bombs and missiles on sleeping children.
ChasCPeterson:
December 14th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
was he?
(if you click that link, ignore Betty Chestnut)
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 14th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
PZ, or a monitor, the troll is back in the Shermer thread.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more:
December 14th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
Thanks, Caine.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 14th, 2012 at 5:40 pm
SG, you’re welcome. I think I’m past overload on the level of stupid invading lately. So I’ll talk about something else.
Has anyone else seen the movie Tomboy? It received all these glowing reviews of how it was a wonderful, ‘feel good’ movie. I didn’t find it that way at all. I was shocked and upset by the mother’s reaction and consequent actions, I thought the ending was flat out bad and I wasn’t impressed by the constant attempt to stuff everyone into convenient ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ boxes.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 14th, 2012 at 5:58 pm
I also got strong flashes of both homophobia and transphobia from Tomboy. Maybe it’s just me…
nms:
December 14th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
Well, this is one of the more terrifying threads I’ve read here.
StevoR:
December 14th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
@650. strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more :
The quote there is NOT something I still believe or would say today.
@ 654. Amphiox :
Its NOT my first assumption and not my preference, I think you are addressing straw-me there not the real me and not my* actual arguments.
What is your suggested “third way” there exactly and do you really think it hasn’t been seriously tried?
@655. Amphiox :
Such things work sometimes in some situations to some extent. There are situations where those things do help and work and where they do work they are the best choice and my first preference.
However, there are other cases where they may or definitely do not work or are NOT applicable. In those cases more drastic measures may need to be reluctantly contemplated or used instead. I’m not saying they should be our first choice or used when more humane alternatives exist and if things do end in those situations I know we’re already in major trouble and awful situations but sometimes, sadly, that may just be the unfortunate reality.
++++++
* Well not outside of one or two drunken, overtired and emotional posts that I have repeatedly apologised for and said I was wrong to say.Have you never said things you’ve later regretted Amphiox?)
John Morales:
December 15th, 2012 at 12:10 am
Well, congratulations, StevoR.
Only took you two weeks to find the questions I posed you, though they immediately followed your own comment!
Not that I’m surprised that your belated responses are pathetically revealing, nor that you have failed to grasp their rhetorical intent (that you engage is unwarranted generalisations based on your ignorance).
Still, if you have some dim apprehension that muslim, jihadist, arab and middle-east are different sets, and that you may be imputing the characteristics of their intersection to their powerset (the fallacy of composition), you have made some progress.
(Well done!)
Ichthyic:
December 15th, 2012 at 12:17 am
which of these do you currently feel correctly reflects your position:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/05/thunderdome-11/comment-page-1/#comment-507495
or, process of elimination, which no longer reflect your position, if that is easier.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 2:23 am
Yeah, well, before I learned you said it, I thought it was something you wouldn’t say.
Thing about you, StevoR, is that you say astonishingly fucked up shit and then you wave it away as something you wouldn’t say anymore. But then you say more astonishingly fucked up shit.
I just don’t believe you. I think you would indeed claim that African Americans are not loyal to America. I am confident you’d say it when you’re drunk, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you’d say it when you’re sober, given a particular audience. So I’d like more than your assertion.
I might be able to believe you if you would explain what is wrong with the quote, and hypothetically what you would say to dissuade someone else who’s saying the same thing. You could add further credibility by explaining how you came to understand that you were wrong.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 2:40 am
My “I thought it was something you wouldn’t say” is about Obama, not African Americans per se, but likewise I didn’t think you’d say the things you later said about Obama. It’s all astonishingly fucked up. And I don’t understand how someone can honestly go from saying
to
John Morales:
December 15th, 2012 at 2:52 am
ॐ, recalcitrant as he may be, I believe that StevoR’s desire to belong here is having an effect on his thinking.
A positive one.
(Even just mouthing what one considers progressive pabulum to appease others’ antipathy means one must process such)
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 3:08 am
I believe that is possible, but I want explanations in order to differentiate changing from bullshitting. The first quote in my 666 temporally preceded the second. I want to know how he went from here to there and back again. And I want to know what he would say to someone he encounters today who he overhears saying that “hyphenated Americans” are not completely loyal to America.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 3:10 am
I mean, for fuck’s sake, back in 2008 when he mouthed “but racist? Not exactly. More like anti-racist” and “Sheesh. Obama was 8 at the time and hardly knew the guy- then or later”, why didn’t that stick?
Ichthyic:
December 15th, 2012 at 3:33 am
frankly, that disturbs me alongside the comments themselves.
What’s the name for someone that will say anything so they can feel they belong?
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞:
December 15th, 2012 at 3:48 am
John Morales:
Dude, how well read are you?
Your vocabulary is second to none.
****
While I’m at it, SGBM, I admire your ability to argue effectively as well as how good (and quick) you are at providing links (seriously, your bookmark page must be huge).
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 15th, 2012 at 3:49 am
I simply don’t trust Stevo. I do believe his desire to stay here and to belong are sincere. However, his plea in that regard left me more wary than ever, because of his stated willingness to “stay off the subject for x amount of time.” To me, this points to a distinct lack of change in his thinking, meaning he’ll still hold the same repulsive views, he’ll just hide them from sight. That’s not better.
Stevo has deeply offended many (most) people here and we have already lost Ing because of him, which is a serious loss.
There’s also his stated drinking problem, which he seems to feel ought to absolve him to some degree or another. Plenty of people here have posted while drunk and that’s not generally any sort of issue, as they don’t say anything they wouldn’t normally say. Shorter version: In vino veritas.
I don’t have any sort of easy answer as to what it would take for me to accept StevoR here, even on a probationary period.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 3:52 am
Honest to Karl, I have no bookmark page. Note the illustration: the drawer is in his head.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 3:54 am
! What? Seriously? I didn’t see this.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
December 15th, 2012 at 3:57 am
Yes, it took place in the ‘stop now’ thread – the one about the e-mail StevoR received.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 4:00 am
God damn fuck.
Ing, if you read this, I hope you take a break and come back. You are good people and I will miss you.
Ichthyic:
December 15th, 2012 at 4:06 am
if you’re still looking for it, this is where Ing bailed:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/11/stop-now/comment-page-1/#comment-510010
Ichthyic:
December 15th, 2012 at 4:20 am
…and again when nohellbelowus continued with its inanity:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/11/stop-now/comment-page-1/#comment-510264
has that one been tossed yet, ’cause I can’t recall ever seeing anything worth reading from it?
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 4:32 am
Fucking goddamnit.
StevoR, I want you to apologize to Ing for all the shit you’ve said about his friends. Some of it was recent, too, a Thunderdome ago, I think. You goddamned fucking asshole. You called his friends jihadists just this month or last. Asshole. You are a stupid, malicious, hateful bigot, StevoR, and you are hurting people who don’t deserve it.
strange gods before me ॐ:
December 15th, 2012 at 4:36 am
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/11/29/thunderdome-10/comment-page-1/#comment-502295
Shithead. Fuck you StevoR. You should fucking beg for Ing’s forgiveness. And don’t make some excuse for why you said it. No ifs ands or buts.
Beatrice:
December 15th, 2012 at 5:10 am
Crap. I thought Ing was just leaving that thread.
PZ Myers:
December 15th, 2012 at 10:47 am
NEW THREAD.