This is depressing – a statement by a group called Ethnic Minority Liberal Democrats, doing the same irritating “we deplore violence, we approve of free speech, but” shuffle that we’ve already seen.
Ethnic Minority Liberal Democrats (EMLD) deplores the reported death threats against Maajid Nawaz, a Prospective Parliamentary Candidate for Hampstead and Kilburn. Death threats can never be justified and we wholeheartedly condemn them.
Impressive? They condemn death threats. Now that that’s out of the way – on to their real passion – demanding respect for all the cultures and faiths, no matter what.
EMLD also deplores the portrayal of Muslim communities – in the mainstream media and party blogs – as not valuing free speech. Many British Muslims value the Liberal ideals of free speech as much as any other citizen.
It deplores the portrayal? Not the reality? Yes, many British Muslims value the Liberal ideals of free speech as much as any other citizen – depending on how you define “many” – but many also do not, and are very keen to let everyone know they do not. You know who portrays them that way? They do. They do it themselves. They sign that stupid petition that demanded the LibDems deselect Maajid.
The negative portrayal of Muslim communities feeds well-documented anti-Muslim discrimination and attacks on them and we believe that all Liberals should make better use of our freedom to debate the alarming rise of Islamophobia across Britain and mainland Europe.
But so does the reality. It’s not just the media picture of anti-freedom of expression Muslims that feeds discrimination, it’s the activity and rhetoric of anti-freedom of expression Muslims themselves. I’ve been marveling for days at the way some Outraged Ones feed into the very stereotypes that contribute to all this “Islamophobia” and hostility to Muslims.
Liberalism is more than the right to offend. That is a narrow, shallow, interpretation. With free speech and Liberalism comes the responsibility to respect, to understand, and to be tolerant of faiths, difference and all cultures.
No. No. No. No.
There is no responsibility to respect all faiths and all cultures. That is a demand too far. I have no responsibility for instance to respect honor cultures that persecute and murder women and girls in the name of that honor.
This includes respect for those who speak out when they are offended. PPCs should be especially aware of this and should know better than to offend large sections of the population, whatever point they seek to make.
No. If those large sections of the population are “offended” for bad reasons, then no, PPCs should not know better than to offend them. Some people are “offended” to be told that they are not superior to other races. Some people are “offended” to be told that women should have equal rights with men. Some people are “offended” to be told that there is nothing wrong with same-sex marriage. It is not the case that PPCs should know better than to make those points, which could easily offend large sections of the population.
Apparently the Ethnic Minority Liberal Democrats don’t understand what Liberal Democracy is.
Maajid Nawaz said he wasn’t offended by a cartoon and others, notably a vocal group of Muslims led by Muhammad Shafiq, are offended by Nawaz’s lack of offense. So should Shafiq be respected for being offended and Nawaz be disrespected for not being offended? EMLD needs to give this some more thought.
“Apparently the Ethnic Minority Liberal Democrats don’t understand what Liberal Democracy is.”
A less charitable view is that they understand liberal democracy very well, but reject it, their sophistry is more of a threat to our liberties than the barking-mad zealots who usually receive most of the publicity.
“Respect” becomes a rather sinister word when used in this context. How can cultures be ‘respected’, the demand that religions are worthy of respect is just another form of proselytising as what is explicitly required is deference to superstitions and morally repugnant practices by non-believers.
Ophelia, for continuously coming up with well reasoned posts like this one, you are an international treasure.
Nothing less.
“No. No. No. No.
“There is no responsibility to respect all faiths and all cultures. That is a demand too far. I have no responsibility for instance to respect honor cultures that persecute and murder women and girls in the name of that honor.”
I could not agree more.
No. If those large sections of the population…
And they’re getting larger. Thanks to mass immigration, directly and indirectly. But it would be racist to object to mass immigration, wouldn’t it? One day it will sink in that you yourself are part of an irrational cult. The difference between your irrational cult and their irrational cult is that their irrational cult knows how to defend itself and increase its power and influence. Your cult doesn’t. It would be impossible to publish a new Satanic Verses in the UK today. Their irrational cult has got far too strong in the intervening years.
BestovSest @#4:
I think you misread the line.
“No. If those large sections of the population are “offended” for bad reasons, then no, PPCs should NOT know better than to offend them.” [My emphasis. OP].
I agree with everything Omar said at #3.
I’ve even had real, live, discussions about the fact that brutal transgressions of human rights (and yes, even not-so-brutal transgressions) do not require our respect, nor do they require our tolerance. But I am still surprised at the number of people for whom “respect for others” absolutely and completely ignores and trivializes the suffering of and discrimination against those less powerful within a culture. Because it’s culture, and everyone’s ideas are worthy of respect, and they’ve done it since forever. Well, I spit on that. Rather ferociously.
Many British Muslims value the Liberal ideals of free speech as much as any other citizen.
Some do.
I if only there was an example of a Muslim speaking up for the ideals of free speech that EMDL could get behind and say ‘See, we said there were Muslims who value free speech!’
You know, the kinda guy who says ‘I’m not offended by cartoons’.
If only I could think of one who was in the news recently talking about just such an issue.
I’ve even had real, live, discussions about the fact that brutal transgressions of human rights (and yes, even not-so-brutal transgressions) do not require our respect, nor do they require our tolerance.
Tolerance of intolarance towards women and homosexuals is misogyny and homophobia by proxy.
It’s the ‘tolerance’ of people who support oppression but can’t be arsed getting their hands dirty themselves.
Let’s be clear here: I fully respect those who refuse to respect Muhammad Shafiq’s lack of respect towards Maajid Nawaz’s refusal to feel disrespected by a cartoon.
@9 : the last time I saw a string of logical negations that long I was writing a particularly tricky bit of C++ code.
Pathetically thin and weak article in the New Statesman.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/01/taking-offence-and-freedom-of-speech/
There seems to be a certain kind of “liberal” for whom “equality” means that the most ultra-reactionary, far-right forces in evert society should have the same right to treat “their” women, LGBT people, religious dissidents etc., any way they want to.
Pathetically thin and weak article in the New Statesman.
One of the commentators calling for Nawaz – and Martin Scorsese (Christ, they hold grudges!) – to be tarred and feathered tells how he wept when Stalin died.
rq@6:
Yes. Note how one way their demand for respect is. And of course, they way they use respect, they really mean deference.