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Jun 12 2013

The Saudi flag

There’s a ferocious Jesus and Mo today.

flag

The original?

Flagbig

The Arabic reads: There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet.

The picture reads: And if you don’t agree we’ll cut your fucking head off.

10 comments

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  1. 1
    seraphymcrash

    Wow, that dropped my jaw. Hard to argue though, especially considering how small a change from the original it is. Really I think the point of the comic is drawing attention to how messed up the original is.

  2. 2
    Ophelia Benson

    Oh yes, that’s the point of the cartoon all right. Well made, too.

  3. 3
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Nope, sorry, not funny.
    Linking all Saudis to the criminal deeds of two Brits is not funny.
    Especially not when the murder was not motivated by the victim not believing in the right god and when there’s been more than 100 attacks on Muslims in the UK in the wake, including setting fire to mosques.
    I’m pretty sensitive on the idea of setting fire on the religious buildings of religious minorieties and this is not helpful.
    And it’s not funny when you remember what happened to the young Saudi who was a victim in the Boston bombing.

  4. 4
    Ophelia Benson

    Giliell -

    Oh for fuck’s fucking sake.

    It wasn’t meant to be funny!!

    Are you serious? Did you really think it was? Did you think I was saying it was?

    And it’s not “all Saudis” – what a horrible thing to say.

    How the hell do you think you know the murder was not motivated by the victim not believing in the right god?

    I’m “pretty sensitive” on the idea of cutting people’s heads off because religion.

  5. 5
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Ophelia

    How the hell do you think you know the murder was not motivated by the victim not believing in the right god?

    I’m not sure, are we both talking about the Woolwich murder? Because one of the attackers clearly said that it was because the man was a soldier “who’d been killing muslims in Afghanistan”. That doesn’t justify the deed at all, and yes, religion features as an element, but they didn’t go out on the street and just killed any random person for not believing in Allah, they specifically targeted somebody because of their actions, not beliefs.

    And it’s not “all Saudis” – what a horrible thing to say.

    Yes, but that’s actually the association it makes. It associates Saudi Arabia and all its citizens with that murder. And it does so at a time when Saudis and muslims are targeted in the western world, when being a Saudi victim of a terrorist act automatically makes you a suspect.

    What is the point you’re trying to make?
    That Saudi Arabia is a horrible country with horrible laws where people are brutally executed for minor things? I think we all knew that before. And you know what? That “brutally exectued for minor things” thingy applies to the USA, too. It’s still not OK to associate all citizens of the USA with drone attacks and it would be even less OK so if US Americans where at a rather high risk of being attacked as responsible for said murders.
    You might think that those pictures only reflect on the government, but they don’t. Intent isn’t magic and the splash damage on muslims living in the western world is enormous.

  6. 6
    LykeX

    It’s still not OK to associate all citizens of the USA with drone attacks

    The US doesn’t have a picture of a drone on their flag.

    Seriously, doesn’t that strike you as somewhat fucked up? A regime with a questionable record regarding human rights and religious extremism, has a flag that basically says “we’re right and you’re wrong,” with a weapon underneath. That’s creepy, at best, and it’s perfectly legitimate to point that out.

    You might think that those pictures only reflect on the government, but they don’t. Intent isn’t magic and the splash damage on muslims living in the western world is enormous.

    It’s certainly reasonable to worry that there will be some collateral damage to quite innocent Saudis. So, what do we do? How do we avoid that without simply shutting up? Do we need a disclaimer? Something like: “This statement intended to target the Saudi royal family, not the general public.” Or do you have something else in mind?

    Serious question.

  7. 7
    Ophelia Benson

    Yes, but that’s actually the association it makes. It associates Saudi Arabia and all its citizens with that murder.

    Bullshit. It does no such thing, any more than angry commentary on US government policy associates all citizens of the US with that policy. Less, in fact, because the Saudi regime is a monarchy.

    You worry about “splash damage.” How much do you worry about “splash damage” to, for instance, people in Egypt who don’t want a Salafist government? How much do you worry about “splash damage” done by Saudi-funded mosques and institutes and the like?

  8. 8
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    How much do you worry about “splash damage” to, for instance, people in Egypt who don’t want a Salafist government? How much do you worry about “splash damage” done by Saudi-funded mosques and institutes and the like?

    So, is splash damage on Saudis OK because you have good reasons?
    And that splash damage affects Egyptians as well because your run off the mill EDL guy doesn’t bother too much with actual nationalities. Or whether people are indeed from any muslim country. Or even muslim.
    And here’s the thing: I can do fucking both. I can worry about the situation in Egypt and support progressive people there while not lending some support to right wing bastards who feel justified by these sort of things. It isn’t an either/or.

  9. 9
    Ophelia Benson

    Selective reply. Your reply to # 4 was, too.

    I just think this is bullshit. The cartoon is not about random Saudi people. It’s about that flag. Do you seriously think this cartoon is going to inspire people to go out and persecute Saudi people? Because I don’t.

    Are you aware of the way the UK government grovels to the Saudi rulers? Claims to “share values” with them? Do you think of the Saudi rulers as some kind of persecuted underdog?

    Do you really think this is ammo for the EDL?

  10. 10
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Do you really think this is ammo for the EDL?

    Plain and simply yes.

    Are you aware of the way the UK government grovels to the Saudi rulers? Claims to “share values” with them?

    Yes, and I’m totally aware that the only values western countries actually have is money.

    The cartoon is not about random Saudi people. It’s about that flag.

    This makes no sense.
    Because a flag is just a thing. It always refers back to something else. And you might make that clear distinction between “Saudi leaders” and “Saudi people”, but let’s be honest, that’s not waht everybody does and not how it is commonly interpreted.
    Do you think that people from the EDL would view that cartoon and think that they agree with them?

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