Still arguing about Amina and the protests and white-imperialist-Orientalist feminism. On Twitter for one.
this is where an intersectional approach is so vital. Attempting to impose white western “feminism” w/o listening to the very ppl they’re trying to “liberate” = doomed & counterproductive enterprise.
Sigh. “White western feminism” as opposed to the brown eastern kind which is just fine with arresting and whipping or stoning a woman who takes a picture of herself with her shirt off.
Don’t do that. Don’t pretend there’s “white western” feminism or human rights or liberalism as opposed to brown eastern ones. Human rights are universal; that is the whole point. The whole point is to make them exceptionless, because if we don’t we’re right back where we started – with “we have to kill all the Jews/Tutsis/Bosnian Muslims/gays/apostates/Hindus/whatever it is this weeks.”
because Femen are “protesting” Islam so listening to Muslims is indispensable.
It is? Why? When I’m protesting Catholic interference with health care is listening to Catholics indispensable?
No. We get to protest and dispute and criticize institutions and systems of ideas without “listening to” their adherents. We may want to listen or we may not, but it’s certainly not a requirement, or indispensable.
And then, what would that even mean? What would “listening to Muslims” mean? There are a lot of Muslims. How do we go about “listening to” them?
We don’t. We just choose a particular set we want to listen to and then refer to them as “Muslims” and what we’re doing as “listening to Muslims” so that everyone will think we have our finger on the pulse of “the Muslim community.” It’s all bullshit. This particular person was listening to some Muslims who dislike Femen and the protest about Amina’s arrest or kidnapping, and treating them as if they were all Muslims.
I challenged her in fewer words on Twitter.
Oh? So when protesting fascism, “listening to” (i.e. agreeing with) fascists is indispensable?
Omigod how dare I, fascism is totally different from Islam.
oh ffs listening =/= “agreeing”. & p big diff between Nazism as ideology & Islam as a religion with c.1bn adherents, numerous sects, wildly differing practices from person to person.
But person to person isn’t the issue, or relevant. The issue here is Islam joined to state power. (Also I didn’t say Nazism, I said fascism.) Islam joined to state power is not all that radically different from fascism.
& while fascism and feminism are utterly incompatible, Muslim feminists most certainly exist!
Yes, but they are mostly making a mistake. Islam is not their friend. Islam is not feminist. Being both is making a mistake, just as being a Catholic feminist is a mistake. I know the idea is to liberalize the religions from within, but I think that’s a mistake; I think it’s much better to get out of them, so that they will have less power and influence instead of more.
No, sorry, we are allowed to choose, and I choose universalist secular liberal feminist egalitarian values over reactionary theocratic ones. I choose universalist secular liberal feminist egalitarian allies over reactionary theocratic ones.
There’s a Facebook page, Muslim Women Against Femen. It’s as gruesome as you’d expect.
Right, nothing like a cool pair of shades to negate the yards of black cloth wrapped around the head.