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Aug 25 2012

Everybody’s an expert

Another party heard from – Pat Condell explains about atheism+ on Twitter.

Atheism+ Whiney selective feminism that ignores Islamic misogyny. I almost hope God exists so he can piss in their eye.

Really! Is that a fact?!

No, it is not.

Whiny selective standup comedian.

39 comments

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  1. 1
    jenniferphillips

    Ignores Islamic misogyny?? Seriously????? I assume this is a rephrasing of “Dear Muslima”, but it’s quite nonsensical regardless. WTF is wrong with people?

    In general, it’s disappointing but completely unsurprising that A+ is evoking the same kind of hyperbolic idiocy that non-harassment policies did–or for that matter, that ‘guys don’t do that’ did. Nice pattern, eh?

  2. 2
    Ace of Sevens

    Pat Condell? The Muslims haven’t taken over his country and beheaded him yet? It’s almost like he’s talking out his ass.

  3. 3
    Alyson Miers

    By “ignores Islamic misogyny,” he means that if we address Western sexism at all, we’re not talking about those nasty Muslims enough. We can’t try to clean up our own house, because then guys like Condell might get swept out the door.

  4. 4
    Nathair

    I guess we’re just not measuring up to (old white guy) Condell’s thoughtful, nuanced stance of ZOMFG Islam = Nazis!

    The thing I don’t, can’t understand about all these A+ critics is why did we suddenly become a problem when Jen offered a label to us? We were atheists last week just like we are now, we held the exact same positions on all of these issues last week that we hold now, we were calling out for social justice and inclusiveness last week just like we are now, but when we decided to adopt a handle suddenly Pat Condell is frothing at the mouth on Twitter because suddenly we (last week’s fellow travelers) just don’t hate Muslims enough.

    Seriously, WTF?

  5. 5
    supernorbert

    He used to be funny several years ago, but it is pure hate speech these days.

  6. 6
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Oy. I kick myself for having been initially taken in by that creep when I heard his first few videos years ago.

  7. 7
    Ace of Sevens

    Even before he went all xenophobe, he was making videos about how religious leaders don’t believe in God and religion is for the little people. It’s like he has no idea how people think and doesn’t care.

  8. 8
    michaeld

    @4
    I’ve been wondering the same thing. The only thing that changed in the past week is that people with a certain view in the atheist community decided to label themselves. This was all still here a 3 months ago except that people didn’t have a catchy label to put on it.

    Also people keep saying only thing that makes someone an atheist is a disbelief in god so why aren’t they mad at say american atheists efforts for church and state separation? Doesn’t that imply another something that atheists believe in? And why do they care that a certain group of atheists who have other shared views are trying to organize? Are they trying to avoid association or feel like they are somehow going to get kicked out of things? I dunno maybe I’m just as confused about them as they are about A+.

  9. 9
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Did someone not tell Pat that A+ literally just got started. It’s not exactly a movement yet. AFAIK, it hasn’t attacked *anything* yet.
    Oh, and what’s this BS about A+ being about ‘atheism and feminism’?

  10. 10
    Pteryxx

    The only thing that changed in the past week is that people with a certain view in the atheist community decided to label themselves. This was all still here a 3 months ago except that people didn’t have a catchy label to put on it.

    Well, something kinda did change – people started to *rally* instead of giving up and going away.

  11. 11
    Martha

    I’m so glad I have no idea who this guy is!

    I’m not at all surprised at their reaction to A+. They’ve been reacting like that all along to anything Jen, Rebecca, Ophelia, Stephanie, or Greta says. More of the same as far as I can tell.

  12. 12
    Prairie Bob

    I’m not a supporter of A+, but Mr Condell has utterly lost the plot here.

  13. 13
    Jadehawk

    a raging xenophobe dislikes A+? I consider that a compliment.

  14. 14
    jamessweet

    Well. If I was going to predict which atheist would not “get it” in regards to feminism, Pat Condell would probably be first on the list. He’s a racist, xenophobic, hateful asshole. He’s also occasionally hilarious. :shrug: I dunno, I never really expected Pat Condell to be right about anything, he’s just kinda funny to hear him rant sometimes.

  15. 15
    michaeld

    @10 True indeed. Though I have to admit I’m still leaning towards just leaving everything for a while. I’m just so sick and tired of all the negativity that pops up any time this stuff gets brought up. Though it seems patt hasn’t caught up to the latest idea that A+ is the forming of a hate group *rolls eyes sighs and goes off to find pictures of fluffy rabbits*.

  16. 16
    laconicsax

    Who gives a shit what Pat Condell says? He’s too backwards and racist to be a regular Tory but not backwards and racist enough to be a member of the BNP.

  17. 17
    Ace of Sevens

    Thankfully, UKIP is there for moderates like ol’ Pat.

  18. 18
    Pteryxx

    Though I have to admit I’m still leaning towards just leaving everything for a while. I’m just so sick and tired of all the negativity that pops up any time this stuff gets brought up.

    michaeld: similar here; I cut back a lot. Burnout’s real and self-care’s important; and that’s why there needs to be a community for discussion, so that other voices can take the workload when some few of us have to drop out for a while. It’s different to be *hopeless* and give up for good.

  19. 19
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    I love how all sorts of different factions show up at blogs here, or talk about the blogs and community elsewhere, claiming this “we don’t engage with what is wrong in the Islamic world”. I think they just make an assumption that everyone is that sort of liberal, despite repeated evidence to the contrary. International news-level evidence, FFS.

  20. 20
    hyperdeath

    The sad thing is, most UKIP members do regard themselves as moderates. They think they occupy the golden mean between the wild-eyed extremists who believe Muslims to be human, and those who perhaps go a little too far, by spray-painting “Paki’s GO hoMe” on the local mosque.

  21. 21
    lindamccann

    I love Pat Condell. He is Clive James plus (too drunk to find the plus sign). He stirs up shit which needs to be stirred up. Peace.

  22. 22
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    Oh, hyperdeath. “Paki’s GO hoMe”, really? Now, if they were converting the mosque into a place where Pakistani folks played Go, or a Go parlour where the proprietor’s name was Paki, this would make sense. But from context, I am assuming this is supposed to be a plural of Paki, which takes no apostrophe. So tell these idiots that we want it spray-painted correctly on the walls 100 times before morning.

  23. 23
    'Tis Himself

    Condell was mildly amusing some years ago. Since then he’s discovered Islamophobia and the UKIP. Now he’s just another ranter, annoyed that most people don’t share his fear and hatred of Muslims.

  24. 24
    Ani J. Sharmin

    I used to like Pat Condell, but stopped watching his videos quite a while back once I realized his hateful views. He seems to take the view that any acknowledgement of anything wrong here in the US means that we’re ignoring Islamic extremism, while making excuses for people who actually advocate discrimination – because, hey, at least they’re saying something negative about Islam, and that’s good enough.

    And how exactly does Atheism+ ignore Islamic misogyny? First of all, it’s a new thing. Second of all, some of the people who have been speaking in favor of it (and who have expressed similar views in the past, but without the Atheism+ label) are the people whose blogs are places where I’ve felt most comfortable bringing up things about Islam, without feeling like it will result in a bunch of racist responses. (There are always a few, of course, but also many positive comments and concern.) For example, over at Daylight Atheism (the old site), there were comment sections where I shared my experiences of discrimination while living in a Muslim family, specifically about arranged marriage, and many commenters were interested and expressed concern. By comparison, it’s the people who have been causing the problems of misogyny in the atheist movement and blogosphere (to which A+ is a response) who have been the ones who make me hesitant to say anything about Islam, out of fear that anything I say will be used as a reason to advocate discrimination.

  25. 25
    Eric O

    I am not surprised at all to learn that Pat Condell is not a supporter of Atheism+.

    Also, like many here, I used to enjoy Pat Condell’s videos. There’s a fine line between legitimate concerns about the attitudes of certain Muslims living in the West and paranoid xenophobia, and I think he has always straddled it. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt, but now I can’t be bothered.

  26. 26
    trazan

    That was a stupid tweet. Pat paints with too broad a brush here. He dislikes what he sees as “the left”, that he thinks is always accommodating and apologetic towards islam. Maybe A+ social justice is too far left for him?

    What is “islamophobic”, xenophobic and racist about Pat Condell? Examples? Pat usually has many reference links with his videos. Follow some of them, you don’t even have to watch the harsh language and attitude vid. How many death threats do you think he has recieved? Isn’t that scary?

    I don’t remember reading any “islamophobic” or “islamophile” FtB post, but some comments condemn those who critisize islam. Are the “Maryam Namazie” and “No Country for Women” blogs “islamophobic”? I don’t think there are any “islamophobia” anywhere. It is a label used to suppress critique of islam. Surprisingly often, it works.

  27. 27
    MadScientist

    That’s why I can’t stand Pat Condell even though he is occasionally very funny. (Unlike Bill Maher whom I equally dislike and who’s about as funny as a hemorrhoid).

  28. 28
    Svlad Cjelli

    Pat Condell is a comedian? I thought he was just a cranky old man.

  29. 29
    GordonWillis

    @trazan #26

    That was a stupid tweet. Pat paints with too broad a brush here. He dislikes what he sees as “the left”, that he thinks is always accommodating and apologetic towards islam. Maybe A+ social justice is too far left for him?

    Maybe the first part of this is correct: he sees the Left as compromising its original values, or at least so I infer from his recent attack on the Guardian. The second part might possibly be wrong: perhaps he has jumped to conclusions without actually bothering to find out. He’s passionate about social justice. But, as others here have pointed out, he’s moving towards an extreme of hatred. I think he started well enough. Possibly he has become obsessed with his worldview and his creativity and is no longer looking carefully. I mean, he has become arrogant, rather than daringly outspoken.

  30. 30
    sambarge

    Tony @ 9

    Oh, and what’s this BS about A+ being about ‘atheism and feminism’?

    Don’t you know? The Feminazis at FtB are behind it. We’re going to enslave men around the world with our “social justice” talk. Mwahahahahahahaha!

  31. 31
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Linda McCann:

    He stirs up shit which needs to be stirred up.

    We already have had plenty of rank-smelling pond-bottom material floating past our eyes for the last year.

    Peace.

    And bless your heart as well.

    Trazan:

    I don’t think there are any “islamophobia” anywhere. It is a label used to suppress critique of islam.

    There’s a difference between criticizing a religion and dehumanizing its followers. I suspect, however, that trying to explain this to you would be futile.

    Gordon Willis:

    He’s passionate about social justice.

    Feminism is an inherent part of social justice. So is not dehumanizing people who are, by and large, brown-skinned. Condell fails on both counts.

  32. 32
    John the Drunkard

    Oh Pat….

    This is what the internet offers: an opportunity to discharge accumulated venom on one subject in response to another.

    The complaint that ‘western,’ ‘priviledged,’ feminists are ignoring the suffering of women under Islamic theocracy has some justificataion. It just doesn’t have anything to do with A+ or Jen or trolls.

    I still think the real root of the current crisis–under all the grudges and the misogynist creeps–is our failure to believe that membership in ‘our’ community includes a sprinkling of sociopathic deviants.

    It is the priest/rapist in the 1960s or Jerry Sandusky in the 90s. For so many, the initial reaction to the bad news is blank denial and changing the subject.

  33. 33
    trazan

    @Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being
    It is easy to label things (as hate) and it is a bit harder to examine and discuss what Pat is doing. I think I can be reasoned with and I am not a so called fanboi. Please don’t give up.

    You think Pat hates “brown-skinned” people? Is islam a race, a tone of skin or a religion? I think it’s not just a religion, but also a system for a totalitarian society. As for the “shit-stirring” mentioned by lindamccann, he often discusses things not mentioned in mainstream media and offers a different perspective. That’s worth something.

    @’Tis Himself
    Aren’t Nigel Farages rants in the european parliament fun.

  34. 34
    embiearts

    Saw that tweet. Didn’t even bother to respond, just insta-unfollowed and walked away. That dude is plainly not worth the energy of an argument.

    Truth be told, I’d forgotten that I’d ever followed him; I’m guessing the time difference means anything from him is usually buried in the timeline by the time I log on.

  35. 35
    Dan

    Pat Condell lost the plot a long time ago. Stand-up comedian? When did you last hear him tell a funny joke? Correction, when did you last hear him tell a joke of any kind?

    I’m not sure whether I ever had a rounded view of the man, but my perception is that over time he has become ever more entrenched in a contrarian rut. I guess he may have started out as a genuine liberal, fiercely critical of what he saw as leftist capitulation to religious fundamentalism. It was fair comment most of the time. But his trajectory has taken him to a much more difficult place.

    I see him as symptomatic of a specifically anti-Muslim form of cultural Christian xenophobia. It doesn’t necessarily fit into a neat right-left binary, but it’s as creepy and dehumanising as any Islamicist rhetoric or leftist cheerleading for Islamicism, and has to be challenged and resisted just as hard.

  36. 36
    Dan

    @trazan #33:

    “Is islam a race, a tone of skin or a religion? I think it’s not just a religion, but also a system for a totalitarian society. ”

    The consequence of this analysis is that you see every Muslim as an agent of a totalitarian ideology. Every individual Muslim is equivalent to a Nazi, presumably to be dealt with accordingly. Where does this lead?

    No, this is just paranoia: nasty, ignorant, prejudiced and dangerous paranoia. This is not to diminish the real problems that exist, but to recognise what the reality of those problems is. Without understanding the problems, you are unlikely to be able to develop answers to them.

    Islam as a religion is very diverse, lacking as it does any central religious authority (there is no Islamic pope). Islamic countries include some of the world’s biggest democracies (as well as some of the least democratic and most abusive regimes).

    Two things are obvious to anyone with a clear head: 1. there are forms of Islam which are extreme, and politicised forms of Islamism which are dangerous, BUT 2. All Muslims are not evil Caliphate stormtroopers.

  37. 37
    Dan

    And another thing.

    Condell’s claims to be in favour of social justice evaporated the first time he referred to the (his words) “so-called Palestinians”, and apparently decided they didn’t deserve justice and freedom because most of them are Muslims.

  38. 38
    Michael66

    @trazan “I don’t think there are any “islamophobia” anywhere. It is a label used to suppress critique of islam. Surprisingly often, it works.

    -

    Denying Islamophobia exists is like denying racism, homophobia and anti-Semitism exists. Read “Fear, Inc. The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America” and visit LoonWatch. You’ll change your mind soon enough.

  39. 39
    Jay

    “I guess we’re just not measuring up to (old white guy) Condell’s thoughtful, nuanced stance of ZOMFG Islam = Nazis!

    The thing I don’t, can’t understand about all these A+ critics is why did we suddenly become a problem when Jen offered a label to us? We were atheists last week just like we are now, we held the exact same positions on all of these issues last week that we hold now, we were calling out for social justice and inclusiveness last week just like we are now, but when we decided to adopt a handle suddenly Pat Condell is frothing at the mouth on Twitter because suddenly we (last week’s fellow travelers) just don’t hate Muslims enough.

    Seriously, WTF?”

    This is ageist, racist, and ignores that the long standing critique that many feminists have ignored or worse apologized for Islamic human rights abuses.

    Atheists were not guilty of this, but feminists were. So when Atheism+ formed and took on a feminist mission, then yes, you became vulnerable to this sort of analysis, even by an old, white, guy.

    The history of feminism is that feminism has gone through many phases where an older movement was criticized for ignoring non-white women, poor women, non-western women, etc. Feminism is replete with classism and racism, hence why theories of kyriarchy and intersectionality arose.

    As a member of two of the classes you just attacked, I would like you to understand how offensive your comment was and I ask you not do that again.

    Maybe we both advance in our personal growth and learn about tolerance and appreciation for others not like ourselves.

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