“I’ll never understand atheism. I mean, there’s tons of evidence for God.”
“Like what?”
“Like morality, for instance.”
“Morality.”
“Exactly. Everybody knows that there’s a real right and a real wrong. You can’t just make it up and call it morality. It has to come from God.”
“So in other words, you’re telling me that all moral values come from an unmarried Father, and illegitimate Son, and a guy that got someone else’s fiancée pregnant.”
“Yes, that’s—wait, what?”
21 comments
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msironen
November 30, 2011 at 8:53 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I fought the lol and the lol won.
Lauren Ipsum
November 30, 2011 at 1:12 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
You win one internets!
G.Shelley
November 30, 2011 at 9:13 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
There are actually two variants of the argument from morality
1) Everyone in the world apart from the people that don’t have the same basic moral code and as we have ruled out biological or cultural reasons. Therefore god exists
2) Wouldn’t it be awful if there was no great being in the sky to tell us that raping babies is wrong? That would mean it is wrong because we say so rather than because he does. Therefore god exists
OgreMkV
November 30, 2011 at 9:16 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Actually, if there is a morality where things are definitely good and somethings definitely wrong, then morality is outside of God and, in fact, God is required to follow those rules… not that he does or anything.
I can’t remember if it was here or another FtB where an apologist tried to argue that causing people to lie did not mean that God committed an immoral act. Whatever.
N. Nescio
November 30, 2011 at 11:21 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I dearly love putting religious concepts into plain language. Once you strip away all the trappings, it sounds ridiculous!
otrame
November 30, 2011 at 11:37 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Snerkle
Graham Martin-Royle
November 30, 2011 at 11:55 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Oh I have so got to remember that!
freebird
November 30, 2011 at 12:33 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Zing!
Mr.Kosta
November 30, 2011 at 3:09 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I am SO stealing that!
Charles
November 30, 2011 at 3:12 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
As the Jewish Apocrypha have Mary’s age as 14 you can add Paedophile to the list of God’s sins
Igakusei
November 30, 2011 at 11:39 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
…and so began a long tradition…
Stevarious
November 30, 2011 at 6:53 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
FTFY.
fastthumbs
November 30, 2011 at 11:59 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Would that matter in a Bronze Age patriarchal society? It’s also possible that Mary was fooling around… so we’re could be looking at adultery instead of rape.
I gather most Christians think that the Holy Ghost just waved it’s Ghostly hands and Mary was with child… NOT TRUE!!! The Holy Ghost physically manifests to have coitus with Mary:
(Matthew 1:18) Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together*, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
* came together. synerchomai συνέρχομαι (which is the same Greek word used in the Zeus seducing Leda story – when looked at closely, one finds that the bible generally contains many stories that at the core are rip offs of earlier myths from Hindu, Greek and Egyptian mythologies)
mikespeir
December 1, 2011 at 6:42 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
But the “before they came together” there refers to before Mary and Joseph “came together,” not before Mary and the Holy Spirit “came together.”
tripencrypt
December 1, 2011 at 1:56 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
That is hilarious! Thanks for the retort. I’m appropriating that, for sure!
Alethea H. Claw
December 1, 2011 at 4:18 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Much as it’s nice to magnify the wrong, you can’t really say “against her will”. There’s explicit consent in the story.
Stevarious
December 1, 2011 at 12:58 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Been a while since I read this stuff… Matthew renders the story as just “His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.” There isn’t even implied consent, nor any explanation of why they believe it to be so. That said, Luke’s version does clearly imply consent. So I guess you’re right.
Of course, it’s sort of like arguing whether or not the Trix Rabbit has a chemical or a psychological addiction, y’know?
Insufficient Cringe
December 1, 2011 at 8:02 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“If there was no God, would you murder people?”
“No, of course not, I’m not a bad person. That would be just wrong.”
marcus
December 1, 2011 at 2:56 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Interesting that you bring this up. My first step into unbelief was when I realized (at age 13)that I didn’t need God to tell me not to mistreat people. What a relief that was!
Amadan
December 1, 2011 at 3:03 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
According to St John the Damascene, Mary’s perpetual virginity meant that she must have conceived through her ear.
So please tell your parish priest that the Pope is wrong about aural sex.
benjdm
December 5, 2011 at 1:08 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“Everybody knows that there’s a real right and a real wrong. You can’t just make it up and call it morality. It has to come from God.”
If everybody (including God) knows that they can’t just make it up and call it morality, it can’t come from God. It contradicts itself.