We were always in favor of separation of church and state — I still am — and I never cared for these phony Christian charities that were providing evangelical nonsense and calling it genuine aid. But I am compelled to admit that some Christian charities were mostly sincere and were really supplying relief to communities in trouble, especially after disasters struck (some saw it as an opportunity to do nothing but PR, but let’s not tar every charity with the same ugly brush). Keep religion out of government, but if a church is actually providing helpful social services, they deserve compensation from the state…for that, but not for preaching or prayer.
Unfortunately, there are some who want to use secularism selectively applied to punish Christian charity and liberalism. Mike Flynn clearly did a search, not for corruption or abuse of funds, but for a Christian denomination he doesn’t like, to declare that they shouldn’t get government support. Lutheran Family Services must be very bad, because they assist refugees and immigrants. Of course Elon Musk agrees.
(Disclaimer: I was brought up Lutheran, but got out of there as fast as I could, and do not have a special place in my heart for Lutheran anything.)
I might be willing to go along with calling supporting Christian charities illegal payments
, but only if the term was applied to all religious sects, all missionary efforts, and all religious outreach, as a way to close the loopholes that allow some churches to buy private jets so they can deliver Bibles to starving people. But I don’t know, “Lutheran immigration and refugee service” and “Lutheran social services” sound pretty benign. I’d want more evidence that they were abusing the system than that a notorious kook and fanatic searched for the religion in a table of funding payments. This is just naked sectarianism, a little sabre-rattling to start a holy war.
And DOGE is an even worse criminal enterprise, trying to benefit billionaires by ripping apart the social safety net.
It is far worse than PZ Myers summary in the OP.
.1. Of course this is all lies.
Elon Musk has no idea what Lutheran Charities actually does. Legal immigrants and refugees are in the USA by the millions and they need and get help routinely. It’s been this way since long before I was born.
.2. This is also blatantly illegal.
Congress has the power to control spending, not the Executive branch. The Treasury department and DOGE have no legal right to shut down any federal agency. None whatsoever.
.3. We are beyond a constitutional crisis here.
The courts already ruled that this was illegal and the Trump reich is just ignoring those rulings.
If the president can pick and choose which government programs to fund and which to kill, then we have a dictatorship.
I don’t want to over dramatize this, but AFAICT, the USA is over with.
What is just getting started is our new national program to wreck the USA and take a good chunk of the world down with us.
Today, it is Canada, Mexico, China, Greenland, and Panama.
I’m sure the EU is going to be next.
“And DOGE is an even worse criminal enterprise, trying to benefit billionaires by ripping apart the social safety net.”
Any (most of) the money saved by cutting social programs will be directed to those billionaires. And Americans are too lazy to give a damn. I wonder how terrible things will have to get before there is revolution.
I asked ChaptGPT some questions about the Lutherian Immigration and Refugee Service
Q: what does the lutheran immigration and refugee service inc. do?
A: The Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service (LIRS) is a nonprofit organization that provides support for immigrants, refugees, and asylum seekers in the United States. Founded in 1939, LIRS is rooted in Lutheran values and focuses on humanitarian aid, advocacy, and resettlement services.
Key Services Provided by LIRS:
… more detail elided …
Q: do they prosethylize?
A: No, Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service (LIRS) does not proselytize. While it is rooted in Lutheran values and supported by faith-based organizations, its services are open to people of all faiths and backgrounds. LIRS focuses on humanitarian aid, advocacy, and resettlement rather than religious conversion or evangelism.
Their mission is centered on welcoming and supporting immigrants and refugees, regardless of their religious beliefs, and they work with both faith-based and secular partners to provide assistance.
In other news, Chuck Schumer renames the Democrats to Partie de Vichy, with Droopy Dog as their mascot.
Hey, Doc Bill, not even close to funny.
Do you even know what Vichy France was? It collaborated with the Nazis! It sent Jews to the extermination camps. Now, tell me, which party is contemplating sending people to camps? It sure as hell ain’t the Dems.
This is where we in the USA are at right now.
Paul Krugman just asked if anyone is in court trying to stop Musk and DOGE from vandalizing the US government. He has no legal authority whatsoever to do what he is doing.
That Paul Krugman. Nobel prize winner in economics. Former NYTimes columnist. Well connected academic that lives in New York City.
And, he doesn’t know what is going on either.
We are so far beyond the looking glass and down the rabbit hole that almost no one knows what is going on.
The only person I’ve seen who said anything is Alexandra Ocasio Cortez and it wasn’t much.
PS I have no idea what to do either.
I’m spending my morning planning to live in the Post USA world.
This is already starting to effect me personally.
.1. There has been almost no Federal efforts to fight the current bird flu pandemic. Chickens are dying by the tens of millions.
Last week, at the store, there were almost no eggs. The few cartoons were $8:50 a dozen.
I never buy or eat eggs so I didn’t care much.
There was also very little chicken or turkey which I do eat a lot of. And the prices were higher.
There was no chicken cat food that is one of 3 types that my old cat will eat.
We are looking at shortages of eggs, chicken, turkey, and once again, cat food. They will get worse since we can’t import them from Canada or Mexico either.
.2. A lot old Boomers in my area are mostly living off of Social Security and Medicare. If those programs get cut, they are already struggling and it is going to get worse.
.3. No one knows how bad this self made economic crisis will get.
If it gets much worse, we will end up in a recession.
And, my 401(K) plan and millions of others will drop in value by a lot.
Which was what happened during Bush’s Great Recession.
.4. I also need to buy a new desk top computer.
Which will likely come from China and be twice the price it was a month ago.
@ 5
Spare us your tone policing John.
Mike Flynn says:
The irony. Oh, the irony… if that only would happen. Any Repubs with clout that want to put some effort into that?
Worse than the New Atheists?
The new theocrats?
@ ^ The new Trump religion? A fusion of nazism, American exceptionalism, Repugliklan Geebus and just plain stinkn’ sewage with an ugly orange idol and the ugliness is bone deep.
I know a Lutheran pastor is probably the kindest person I know, and she is heavily involved with Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service. They have been helping Afghan refugees, but recently they had to turn around and go back home. She is devastated by what’s going on. As an atheist, I can hate them, but she can’t.
RE: DOGE halting Treasury payments to contractors
Already halted due to temporary injunction filed by a number of states (CA, NY, etc–mostly some blue states but some red ones too). Judge granted temporary injunction based on the high probability of plaintiffs success with court case.
But this is how it is going to go for the next four years.
Tangerine Palpatine and/or Muskrat does something horrible & illegal, people/legal entities who are at least somewhat grounded in reality file for injunctive relief & lawsuit. It’s like playing whack-a-mole or like trying to sweep the tide out to sea. It’s designed to do nothing more than rev up the rabid mouthbreathers of his base, and waste the time and resources of the saner half of the US backstopping the constant shitstorm. Resources that could otherwise be put to more productive use but are now plastering over the black hole of arrant stupidity and display-only Christianity.
BTW, if the US economy goes down, it’s taking 2/3 of the rest of the planet with it. 1/3 because those countries back their own currency with US dollars rather than gold and the second 1/3 because their economies are so tightly intertwined with the US that our crash will trigger their crash.
Nice way to treat your actual friends.
@11 Skip the golden calf, the faux Christians now have an orange pig instead.
In an ideal world, they’d all run off a cliff like the Gadarene swine that they are.
Sadly, the restaurant by the same name closed back in 2016
https://la.eater.com/2016/7/1/12081594/the-gadarene-swine-closing-july-2-phillip-frankland-lee
Musk has businesses that contract through the system.
So do his competitors.
Conflict of interest.
Time for an actual revolt?
Still a bad guy fight. The Lutherans it appears on a quick google search are not as bad for people under their care as some other churches, but they are still way up the religious end of that bell curve.
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/237267972
for Fiscal year 2023:
Notable Expenses Percent of Total Expenses
Executive Compensation $498,294 1.5%
Professional Fundraising Fees $0
Other Salaries and Wages $17,224,919 53.5%
(Obviously, not exactly staffed by volunteers when wages are 55% of expenses)
Charities need paid professional staff to run. And since LFS makes a point of providing psychology and counselling to vulnerable people, they need to pay qualified professionals. The core work of trauma counselling, drug rehab, and PTSD management is unsafe without professional care. So it is not surprising that about half of LFS’s expenses go in salaries and wages. This does not mean that they have no volunteers. The LFS website has very clear advice on how to volunteer. And if you should scroll down on the tax filing page, you can see that a total of 6 executives drew salaries but not a single board member received any compensation at all.
The annual tax filing is a public record of financial activity, not a report on volunteer activity levels.
Chris, here’s the compensation for the CEO: $302,647 & $50,592.
Just enough to live on, apparently. Very Christian of him. Surely he deserves it.
The CFO has $195,647 + $4,466. Must be struggling.
The Coo Legal Counsel has $190,658 + $45,889, and every charity needs one of those.
BTW.
That was a representative sample; Lutheran Family Services Of Ne Inc (Omaha, NE).
One city in Nebraska.
USA is bigger than that, has many cities.
But sure, it’s a charity.
Government pays them, they distribute the money to people they think deserve it.
And obs, one must pay the costs of staff. Because, well, volunteering one’s services or only earning enough for a reasonable life is not a very Christian thing to do.
(I mean, sure. USA, so charity is privatised no less than health care. Very Christian!)
Um, the very point is that there is $17,224,919 + $498,294 paid to staff.
It’s a non-profit, but it’s run like a business. With paid staff.
I honestly don’t know how the point is lost on people.
Put it this way; if they weren’t being paid for the work, would they be doing the work?
Come on, be real!
To those people, it’s a job. A job with a charity is fine, but it’s a job.
“And since LFS makes a point of providing psychology and counselling to vulnerable people […]”
That fills me with dread.
I mean, that psychology and counselling has to suit their Christian ethos, no?
Else they’d be hypocrites.
(Religious charities’ provision of psychology and counselling to vulnerable people has history, we both know)
Speaking of New Atheists, I’m looking up Coyne again and he’s written a drivel about “guilt by association” just because he has some close proximity with some prolific transphobes.
That fills me with dread. I mean, that psychology and counselling has to suit their Christian ethos, no?
Have there been any reports or allegations of malpractice by LFS counselors?
Keep religion out of government, but if a church is actually providing helpful social services, they deserve compensation from the state…
What sort of compensation? I agree that charitable spending and operations should be tax-deductible — whether or not the charity is religious — but I’m not really sure state compensation should go beyond that. Is there something else you meant?
Are they religious practicioners, specifically Lutheran?
They are on staff, apparently, thus the salaries.
I note you ignored the actual, explicit, direct question: “I mean, that psychology and counselling has to suit their Christian ethos, no?”
(Tsk)
Simple enough concept: does the LFS employ or contract counsellors that breach the Lutheran Christian ethos by their counselling? Anything but a ‘no(t knowingly)’ entails they are not actually a practicing Lutheran Christian organisation. Obs, to some, it seems I say this because of my, ahem, hyper-literalism.
So, anyway, RB.
There’s a saying — actually a figure of speech — to the effect that silence signifies assent.
(Just saying)
Okay…so, if I’m silent here, what am I assenting to? Your failure to answer my question?
That which you do not even attempt to try to dispute.
(It’s generally used in a diplomatic context)
Here, for you, RB: http://www.protestsonglyrics.net/Miscellaneous_Songs/Preacher-Slave.phtml
(Yeah, I know. It’s about mainstream Protestantism, not specifically Lutheranism.
The sentiment, however, is not archaic)
[meta; anecdotal]
I used to play squash for a Barossa club (well over a decade), and one of the players was a Lutheran pastor. He was damn good (well, as good as me, maybe a tad better, which means just below State level, and so he became known as the ‘Faster Pastor’. And yeah, unless one is a South Aussie, you probably won’t get the joke. He was cool, he was woke, and we argued about religion. And we got on, FWTW. Genuine people have no problem with that.
I am expecting the MAGAs to re-establish the nazi ideology religious movement that existed alongside more traditional churches in Germany 1933-1945.
Argentina during the military dictatorship had a faction of catholic clergy who wholeheartedly approved of the ‘dirty war’.