Wow. This reddit thread by a guy whose girlfriend left him is amazing. He’s getting good advice, but what was so strange was reading this guy’s own version of the story and seeing how wrong he was.
Short version: his girlfriend quietly left him, has a lawyer call him and tell him he has 45 days to pack up and move out; she paid the deposit on the place, the lease was in her name, he says they’ve been sharing the bills, and she’s offered to pay the last bit of rent until he’s gone. But she wants no contact with him, has moved all her stuff out, hasn’t told him where she has gone, and has blocked phone contact. He’s baffled about why, and wonders if she can really do all that.
Along the way he casually mentions that he’d hit her in a domestic dispute a few years before, and that they’d recently had an argument in which the police were called. He downplays these events, but it seems to me that such a thorough, calm, and well-planned departure was probably a rational response to abuse. He writes as if he’s the victim here.
He’s the sole source of information, and even he can’t twist the facts to exonerate himself, which tells me he has to be far worse than he lets on. And his ex-girlfriend? She’s brilliant. It’s a textbook example of how to terminate an abusive relationship, if you have the financial resources (that’s a key modifier: abusers often force dependency, this woman was lucky her boyfriend was a slacker).
Of course he can’t see that he has done wrong. The quality I see in my readings on abuse is always extensive egotism. “I wasn’t hurt so there’s nothing wrong with this situation.” You see this with the way it plays out when abusers are exposed: “People don’t trust me and it’s my victim’s fault for speaking out.” Me me me. That’s all they can think of. They can’t possibly lose folks’ confidence because they’ve done something ethically indefensible, no–it’s all that damn bitch’s fault for speaking up, I’m the victim, I’m being smeared, repeat ad nauseum. Everything they do is a calculation of benefit in reference to themselves, consequences for the other be damned.
I didn’t read all of the replies but it seemed that everyone saw right through him and called him out for being an abusive POS who got what he deserved.
One thing I’d be worried about is the guy deliberately damaging (“trashing”) the lady’s housing before leaving. I hope she also had the foresight to acquire sensible(? verifiable?) evidence of the actual condition before temporarily leaving(albeit I imagine the recollections(and body cams?) of the police officers could help if the guy really is that stooopid?).
Textbook case. I am incredibly impressed by how the victim handled it.
She has a lawyer acting for her. She’s arranged for the lawyer to do a final inspection with the ex when the ex leaves. I’m sure she did an initial inspection as she left.
It’s not clear from the post that she DID ever actually call the cops on him, unless I’m missing something, so there may be no help from the cops on original condition.
That said, given how thoroughly she planned everything else, I have enormous faith in this woman’s competence and forethought, and I’m willing to bet she took pictures of the place before setting all of this in motion, and gave them to her lawyer
As PZ said, she’s very lucky to have the resources to be able to move out and hire a lawyer to deal with the aftermath. Most women in abusive relationships end up isolated from their friends and family, and just have nowhere to turn, except maybe some underfunded shelter… There really needs to be more resources available to people like that…
The commonality I’ve observed on my readings concerning abuse dynamics is that abusers frequently exhibit overblown egotism. Me me me. When every issue is framed in terms of how it benefits you, then you truly can’t grasp what is wrong with hitting someone else (especially if there are no legal consequences). Well, I wasn’t hurt by this action, so obviously there’s nothing wrong with it. Consequences for the other be damned.
The smarter ones know how people with actual consciences will react, so they’ll at least pretend they care about other people or engage in manipulation to pre-emptively immunize them against allegations of wrongdoing. But at the end of the day, there’s still the overblown ego, calculating every move in terms of how it benefits them. It plays out when victims speak up: Not “oh my gosh, I hurt you?” but “You are trying to ruin me.” It plays out during so-called “nice” episodes, “I gave you a gift, why aren’t you grateful about my generosity?”
To these folks, the world well and truly revolves around them.
Abe Drayton
There’s a few hidden comments at the bottom of the thread, one of which is from the OP, talking about how the cops came the week before. He says, in response to someone informing him that the exgf can call the cops if he tries to contact her–
So they had a “spat” in which the cops came and made him leave for the night, but this whole moving out, cutting him off, and giving him notice thing is totally out of the blue, apparently.
Ah – thank you Onamission5 – I hadn’t read that far down. I did look for more by the OP when I first saw this a couple days ago, but didn’t find anything.
I love how carefully she planned this. It’s pretty clear that he was on his last shot, and she made sure she could do this right and with the minimum harm to him. And I just LOVE that all the commenters are calling him out on it.
Soooo, she has a lawyer, and he has a rant on Reddit?
Shit, the discrepancy in terms of intelligence and readiness is so lopsided that I almost pity the guy: he’s about to be (deservedly) eaten alive
The sense of entitlement is also remarkable. As the Redditors repeatedly pointed out to him, he’s been given a gift. He hasn’t been charged with any crime, or served with a restraining order (which presumably would have forced him to find a new home without any notice). She’s giving him a generous 45 days to find a new place, during which time he’s getting full use of the apartment but is only being asked to pay his half rent and the utilities.
And yet he’s outraged that he has 45 days to leave “his home” (which they only moved into a few months ago, so it’s not like he’s got a deep attachment to it), which he admits he can’t afford on his own anyway. But when he’s confronted with the fact that this was an abusive relationship even by his own account, he dismisses it because hey, she had a car, she could have left any time she wanted. She’s supposed to just drive off in the middle of the night without her belongings and find a new home; he’s entitled to keep living in a place indefinitely with her subsidizing him.
Hopefully she and/or her lawyer is directed to that Reddit so they can take screenshots for future use, too, the way he’s admitting to all of those “incidents” there.
If you have a friend in this kind of situation, from what I understand the best thing you can do is just keep reiterating that you’re their friend no matter what, and you will always be there for them. One thing abusers do is tell their victim that their friends lie and aren’t really their friends, and if you’ve become distant due to not wanting to hang around the abuser the victim may well believe it and not think they have anyone they can turn to for help when they finally decide to get it. So be loud and clear that you will be there for them if they ever need you.
Quite possible the OP is the girlfriend herself masquerading as the boyfriend. How can anyone know?
penalfire, #14
b****es be lying, yo
penalfire, #14
Using your own logic, I now think it’s quite possible you are the OP abusive boyfriend. How can anyone know?
Therefore, what exactly *did* you do to make her call the cops on you during your last ‘spat’?
It’s quite possible that post #14 is Donald Trump masquerading as penalfire.
“I’m not saying she was but I wouldn’t be surprised if the OP is the girlfriend. A lot of people are asking questions and we’re looking into that. I’m not saying she is, but you tell me. I don’t know.”
Saad@17, But he hasn’t denied it. Therefore, it isn’t him, and can’t be him, so he hasn’t said it.
I could make anything up and it would be no less verifiable than what the OP wrote.
Wow, Saad, you’re right. Penalfire is totally using ‘b—-es be lying!’
Wow. You are such a fucking asshole.
Would it be naive of me to ask what the point would be for the girlfriend to masquerade as the (ex) boyfriend?
Any evidence the girlfriend or boyfriend or lawyer even exist? An SJW-baiting algorithm could have posted that story.
I appear to have become possessed by a spirit of bafflement.
I too have that spirit of bafflement residing within.
Does penalfire think situations like this are extremely uncommon? Do they think there are abusive persons who do not believe they are abusive? Do they think that abuse victims absolutely never are capable of leaving in ways that are truly crafty?
Penalfire is doing the MRA version of “Nuh uh. YOU’RE the poopyhead.”
I don’t reddit, it’s far too toxic at times.
But, this one is chock full of good advice for the ex-boyfriend and the only piece of advice that wasn’t given was, “STFU, you’ve incriminated yourself more than enough already”. Likely, out of disgust with his asshattery.
In our near 35 years of marriage, the only way either of us hit the other was when rolling over in a full sized bed. Indeed, when she had her carpal tunnel surgery, we both relate the midnight clonk in the eye with a cast, with much laughter from both of us.
Excellent job on her part and she’s been excessively generous in allowing 45 days to vacate. Good for her getting out before something really bad happened!
I am left debating with myself whether penalfire is a sophisticated algorithm that has been programmed to simulate a low intelligence misogynist or actually is one.
penalfire, if you’re going to epistemology, epistemology correctly: How do we even know, man? *drags on weed*
Do you do this any time anyone claims anything happened you weren’t personally there to witness? Like, do you demand to see the receipt or you won’t believe your friend went to the grocery store?
I normally avoid Reddit, completely, but finally took a peek. Buried deep is this comment from the creep, His arse then gets handed to him in very small pieces.
He later gets very evasive about just why the lady called the police.
Elsewhere he tries claims Another round of here’s your arse in very tiny pieces.
He does admit, at one point buried deep down (I hate threaded comments!), Doh!
If anyone didn’t already think penalfire was a bit of an MRA-leaning kook, you didn’t see the part where he victim blamed Leslie Jones for using twitter and being harassed by Yiannopolous’ goons, before asserting that amazon’s use of drones is the precursor to the “t-1000”
These threads always seem to bring out someone whose belief in a person depends upon their genitals, right penalfire?
What would it take for you to believe any evidence given by a woman?
Demonstrating once again that, much to their shame, SJW’s support battered women and dislike abusive men!
Ha! Caught red-handed giving a shit about people again, are we? For shame!
Seriously, if the best taunt someone can come up with is “Well, you tried to help a battered woman!”, they’re gonna have to work up to something a tad more effective.
I’d suggest “You’re a doo-doo!” It’s both more painful and more intelligent.
From now on I’m going to assume that penal fire is a liar or sixteen hamsters in a bag bouncing on on a keyboard instead of waiting for or presenting a reason for thinking such. Whichever one makes the point better at the time. Have they ever done the “charitable interpretation” bit before? That would make it more interesting (though I’ll refrain from assuming that one).
Not really sure what the point of faking the post would be. Maybe a textbook example? It’s not like the OP is an advice-column writer who needs to fill space.
If it was an MRA trying to troll SJWs, there’s no way it would be that subtle – the only feminists they ever see are stuffed with straw, so it’s usually easy to spot troll attempts because they play to straw-feminist beliefs.
>”Any evidence the girlfriend or boyfriend or lawyer even exist? An SJW-baiting algorithm could have posted that story.”
*takes a drag*
Is that like an inverse ad hominem?
“Their content is to be rejected because they might not be who they say they are, not because I know they are someone else or because their story is inconsistent with reality in some way.”
The voice of experience here. But thanks for telling us. We don’t believe anything you say for good reasons.
Someone linked to this in the comments:
https://thebillfold.com/a-story-of-a-fuck-off-fund-648401263659#.duocflafg
Wow!
No more inconsistent with reality than a Dostoevsky character. The content
raises interesting questions worth exploring, but everyone might be morally
sermonizing a fiction.
This might be another balloon boy.
If my friend were nothing more than an anonymous post on the Internet, no,
I would not.
Nothing to do with leaning MRA or SJW. The OP could be a feminist sociology
student, trying to see where the Reddit culture is on these issues in 2016.
Purely benign deception.
Would explain the nuance.
You’re posting anonymously on the internet. Therefore we shouldn’t listen to you, because you could be making something up argle bargle.
nice to know the mr P says it is OK to ignore what someone anonymously posts on the internet because that way I do not feel guilty anymore for not taking what he was saying on the internet the least bit seriously!
uncle frogy
Hey, penalfire,
My chum Bill Ockham has a razor he’d like to introduce you to.
Does it matter? Does it actually make any difference whatsoever if it is? What this post describes has happened before and will happen again. Even if it’s fiction, it’s still true.
Seems to me that the important aspect here is the commentary on relationships, the mindset of an abuser, and the steps a victim can take to effectively escape the relationship. Those things are all perfectly true.
LykeX@43,
But we don’t know that, see, because every account of such events by either an “abuser” or a “victim” could have been made up by a feminist sociology student.
What’s most telling about penalfire’s comments on this thread is that the very first “explanation that occurred to them is the “bitches be lying” one. Only once Athywren@21 asked what the motivation would be for the ex-girlfriend to pretend to be her ex-boyfriend – a question penalfire didn’t even try to answer – were further “alternatives” produced: SJW-baiting algorithm (what?), feminist sociology student…
LykeX@43,
But we don’t know that, see, because every account of such events by either an “abuser” or a “victim” could have been made up by a feminist sociology student.
What’s most telling about penalfire’s comments on this thread is that the very first “explanation that occurred to them is the “bitches be lying” one. Only once Athywren@21 asked what the motivation would be for the ex-girlfriend to pretend to be her ex-boyfriend – a question penalfire didn’t even try to answer – were further “alternatives” produced: SJW-baiting algorithm (what?), feminist sociology student…
LykeX@43,
But we don’t know that, see, because every account of such events by either an “abuser” or a “victim” could have been made up by a feminist sociology student.
What’s most telling about penalfire’s comments on this thread is that the very first “explanation that occurred to them is the “bitches be lying” one. Only once Athywren@21 asked what the motivation would be for the ex-girlfriend to pretend to be her ex-boyfriend – a question penalfire didn’t even try to answer – were further “alternatives” produced: SJW-baiting algorithm (what?), feminist sociology student…
LykeX@43,
But we don’t know that, see, because every account of such events by either an “abuser” or a “victim” could have been made up by a feminist sociology student.
What’s most telling about penalfire’s comments on this thread is that the very first “explanation that occurred to them is the “bitches be lying” one. Only once Athywren@21 asked what the motivation would be for the ex-girlfriend to pretend to be her ex-boyfriend – a question penalfire didn’t even try to answer – were further “alternatives” produced: SJW-baiting algorithm (what?), feminist sociology student…
test
What’s most telling about penalfire’s comments on this thread is that the very first “explanation that occurred to them is the “bitches be lying” one. Only once Athywren@21 asked what the motivation would be for the ex-girlfriend to pretend to be her ex-boyfriend – a question penalfire didn’t even try to answer – were further “alternatives” produced: SJW-baiting algorithm (what?), feminist sociology student…
LykeX@43,
But we don’t know that, see, because every account of such events by either an “abuser” or a “victim” could have been made up by a feminist sociology student.
LykeX@43,
But we don’t know that, see, because every account of such events by either an “abuser” or a “victim” could have been made up by a feminist sociology student.
What’s most telling about penalfire’s comments on this thread is that the very first “explanation” that occurred to them is the “bitches be lying” one. Only once Athywren@21 asked what the motivation would be for the ex-girlfriend to pretend to be her ex-boyfriend – a question penalfire didn’t even try to answer – were further “alternatives” produced: SJW-baiting algorithm (what?), feminist sociology student…
What’s most telling about penalfire’s comments on this thread is that the very first “explanation” that occurred to them is the “b**ches be lying” one. Only once Athywren@21 asked what the motivation would be for the ex-girlfriend to pretend to be her ex-boyfriend – a question penalfire didn’t even try to answer – were further “alternatives” produced: SJW-baiting algorithm (what?), feminist sociology student…
Reassurance that she made the right decision, trash-talking of her ex-boyfriend from an online crowd, etc.
Any personal information can be treated like fiction, of course.
penalfire, you are an idiot. The null hypothesis by a testimony is that it is true or at the very least perceived as true by the person giving the testimony.
Only after evidence is found of this null hypothesis not being true (or plausible), it is worth the time and effort to try and formulate and work on alternative hypotheses and seek one that is more probable than the null hypothesis. Without collaborating evidence you are essentially engaging in a totally pointless wank
There is nothing wrong with wanking per se, but you should not do it in public.
Saad, since you mentionied Trump, here is an article of how he has become chummy with the alt-right (aka misogynist & racist ) crowd
“How Donald Trump shacked up with the alt-right” http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/donald-trump-alt-right/
(Fun detail, I found a link to this article at The American Conservative. Even they loathe the alt-right phenomena , making the magazine a kind of atoll in an ocean of slime.)
** **
“When every issue is framed in terms of how it benefits you, then you truly can’t grasp what is wrong with hitting someone else (especially if there are no legal consequences).” -also an explanation of how many CEOs think!
Quite possible penalfire is the boyfriend himself masquerading as penalfire. How can anyone know?
That applies if we know the identity of the person giving the testimony.
The only verifiable fact is that we do not know the identity of the person
giving this testimony; nor do we know anyone who might know the identity of
the person giving this testimony; we know nothing at all about the source.
Catfishing, etc., should be enough for identity to be the first priority
when assessing the reality of any personal testimony from anonymous posters
online.
That said, this is beside the point. There is truth in the story, and I
apologize for the wanky diversion.
The story, as it’s told (and I tend to believe it coming from the perspective of the abuser even more) demonstrates someone who had good planning skills and was very lucky to be in a financial position to escape. I applaud that.
I will say there is one other thing needed to escape, and that’s the will power to do so. I’ve had numerous members of my family (way WAY too many, from my mother to most of my aunts) who have found themselves in abusive relationships. Oklahoma has a bumper crop of terrible I think. I’ve seen cases where they are financially capable of getting out, and get out just fine (in that case, the abuser was also jobless, supported by his mother more or less). I’ve seen cases where a new boyfriend provided the support needed to leave the old one (so, a MRA could focus on that part and say I’m shockingly willing to support the high crime of “cheating”). The saddest case though is one relative who had all the means and the intelligence to leave a relationship that was broken almost from the very start (it began in high school), but never actually did. It was a constant cycle of abuse, then her leaving this person, then eventually being convinced to go BACK to that person because he’s “changed” (spoiler, he didn’t change a bit). Ultimately, it was only her fear that he’d take out that violence on their son that finally convinced her to leave for good, and it’s been enough years that I am confident the breakup “took” this time. I believe the abuser probably really thought he HAD changed, WAS going to become a better person, every single time he came crawling to her begging for forgiveness. However, it became clear that, in his mind, he’s trying to fix his responses to “her” issues, the “real” cause of his violent outbursts. He was a psychopath, only caring about treating others better in so far as he wanted to consider himself a “good person”, rather than actually being a good person. My family, in responding to this particular family member’s reasons for not leaving, “didn’t understand what he was really like and just pictured a monster”. I’m sure that’s true. No one is monster “all the way down”. I’m sure he’s actually had loving moments. Acknowledging that is necessary to get someone to come around, I think.
I will say this though. The good isn’t enough. You don’t need to stand by someone who isn’t changing. Further, I will say everyone deserves a chance to change. It’s why progressives don’t believe in execution. However, don’t conflate getting that chance to change with YOU needing to be in a romantic relationship with that person. You aren’t going to be the one that saves him. He’s got to do that himself, and step one is that person just accepting the relationship is over, and NOT getting into a new relationship. Those abusers need to learn how to be selfless, and step one is sacrificing romantic relationships, perhaps for decades.
I don’t know what else to say. I’m being way more charitable to the abuser in this situation than I really want to be. What I can say is I detest this sort of thing, and it’s enough to make me think maybe we should have equilibrium style drugs.
Nope, I am skeptical that you know how to do skepticism. Typical of misogynists. Why must only men be believed.
Answer that real question.
And why the fuck should anybody listen to YOU. We don’t know YOU. You are a bot…l
So today I will disbelieve penalfire because they might be MRA amoebas assembled into a pair of hands. I realize amoebas are asexual but reason is not a thing here.
Woman gets blamed for man making public post admitting to hitting her.
Details at 11.
Ah, no, no, no, it’s “Woman gets blamed for pretending to be a man and inventing fake claims about being abused, ‘cuz reasons”.
How do we even know, maaaaan? *more weed*
I appreciate everyone engaged with penalfire in good faith, but yeah, someone upthread mentioned deepities and those are usually a safe sign someone doesn’t know their mouth hole from their waste hole. I’ve read all of penalfire’s comments in a voice of an aggravating first year philosophy student who showed up to an atheist event high.
He didn’t make a lot of friends either.
Sorry about the multiple posts – I didn’t realise my posts were being sent to moderation because I included a certain slur as part of “******* be lying”.
Utter crap. Those are not plausible motivations for pretending to be her ex rather than posting as herself.
Yeah, I tend to clear the whole series of locked-out comments because otherwise, our spam service thinks the presence of any comments flagged as spam for a person means that that person is naughty.