[Lounge #414]


This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Go back to sleep, squirrel. It’s still snowing.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread


  1. sethmassine says

    Yes, I love horses…my friend has 4 of them and we ride now and then. On a side note, I hate fucking creationists!! raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh

  2. rq says

    I hate correcting someone else’s translations more than translating on my own.


    I see that you are on My Team, except for the Peas. You’ll have to get rid of those if you want us to work together. Portia, however, is a Pea-acceptor. She even eats pea popsicles.

  3. opposablethumbs says

    I hate correcting someone else’s translations more than translating on my own.

    Yes. (I have nothing useful or even sensible to add, but yes.)

    I should probably confess … I’ve had this dark and deadly secret all this time, but to say nothing would be tantamount to Hording Under False Pretenses. I think horses look nice (odd, if you sort of look at them closely and let them become unfamiliar to your eye, if you see what I mean, but mostly nice) and I don’t mind fresh or frozen (but not the abomination, tinned) peas. The Real True Evil is celery. That stuff is bad.

  4. rq says


    The Real True Evil is celery. That stuff is bad.

    Yes. I can get behind this common enemy (although I still strongly dislike peas).
    But I’ve been an avid Follower of Horses since I was small, and I shall never relinquish my Faith!
    Also, I’m glad someone understands my translating peeves! :)

  5. Portia, worn out says



    Godsdammit. I spent 20 minutes writing a letter I had been procrastinating on and irrationally dreading and then of course it took .20 seconds to accidentally delete it. Arggggggggg.

  6. rq says

    Peanut butter (or CheezWhiz) and the raisins just make it all the worse… And it has long strings in it. Not even useful for flossing.

  7. opposablethumbs says

    Argh, damn the accidental delete, Portia. My sympathies! (though I suspect it may have been a Divine Punishment for your adherence to the cause of the Vile and Evil Celery). And rowanvt? Celery is always evil. It will irredeemably corrupt even peanut butter and raisins.

  8. Portia, worn out says

    If it’s recoverable, it’s beyond my tech savvy. I was trying to save it : |
    Oh, well. I’ll write it out again. And then print it really fast, haha.

  9. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Hey, all, I think I’m human again. Thanks especially to Portia, but generally to all y’all who helped get me through the last week of the term, dead week, and finals.

    As for celery, it tastes good at first, but leaves this stinging, numbing bitterness on my tongue.

    No thank you. Ever.

  10. Portia, worn out says

    Oooooh man, opposablethumbs, I was just starting to think we could be part of a beautiful alliance! :D

  11. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    oooooo, nice hugs. That’s the kind of thing a person needs after finals in any grad school in any subject, anywhere.

    Hmm, I don’t keep celery around, since I primarily ate it raw, when I ate it. I suppose I’ve had it in stir fries a long time ago. It probably didn’t, but I can’t vouch for it’s non-“I’m a bitter poison”ness when cooked and I feel that it’s better *not* to grab the rattlesnake’s tail in the morning b/c I’m just so sure it’s not active yet – y’know what I mean?

  12. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    Howdy, sethmassine; welcome in!
    *reading further*
    An advocate for peas and Horses?
    *shaking head*
    And the Ultimate Evil claims yet another victim.

    And watch out, cicely has spies eeeeeverywheeeerrre… Just like Master Horse, in fact.
    Uh, I’ll be over there.

    On this subject, it is far, far safer to ignore rq’s advice, for that way lies Perdition’s Depths. (Also the name of a small town, in my D&D campaign; but I digress….) Better you should abjure The Horse And All Its Works, and cease to hang out in Its stables/hellmouths. Better you should cast away all your peas—they attract tornadoes.
    No, wait—that’s trailer-houses.
    That attract tornadoes.
    Not peas attracting trailer-houses.

    How can you ride a horse? Don’t their spines get in the way?

    Indeed! To say nothing of Their poisonous breath and Their crushing, adamantine hooves.
    Go over to the other Dark Side, instead. I hear that they have cookies..

    I think horses look nice

    An entry-level blandishment. Many a young girl has been lured down the bridle path to Damnation thereby.

    Celery is yummy with peanut butter, cream cheese, or various veggie dips, but it has no place in tuna salad.

  13. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says


    Welcome aHorde!

  14. Pteryxx says

    Crip Dyke, congratz on being final-free! finally.

    Sure, a van with “come in and touch a rat to feel good” written on the side driving around neighborhoods – what could possibly go wrong? O.o


  15. chigau (違う) says

    Wait for the signs.
    I just spent 10 minutes refreshing page1 while muttering “Where is everybody?”

  16. opposablethumbs says

    Celery is yummy with peanut butter, cream cheese, or various veggie dips,

    Noooooooo, cicely, nonononono!!!!!!!! ::ack-cough-chokes-splutters:: ::looks accusingly and reproachfully at cicely::

    Portia, I’m with you – as long as you keep The Dread Celery a looooong way away from my place at the table. Then we’re all good.

    Hi sethmassine!

    And congratulations, Crip Dyke, you made it through! Hope you enjoy the wonderful feeling! (finishing exams gives you endorphins, right?) Oh, and I see you are wise to the blandishments of Evil Celery. Very wise.

  17. dianne says

    Sigh. I want a rat now. I wonder if Caine can be detached from a rat or two. Is shipping rats even safe?

  18. rq says

    Celery is only good boiled to death in soup stock, with its limp, dead corpse rapidly removed so as not to ruin the rest of the soup. It adds a certain je ne sais quoi that can only be from celery, but even so… That aftertaste. *cleaning tongue with both hands*

  19. Pteryxx says

    dianne: shipping rats safely takes special handling and labeling, ‘live rodent’ boxes they can’t chew through, gel or grapes so they don’t get dehydrated… research labs do it all the time but it’s expensive and annoying, and stressful for the rats. Better to find the local fancy-rat network in your area and see who’s got some responsibly bred, well-socialized pups. Cheap pet-store rodents often have health issues and/or bad temperaments.

  20. Pteryxx says

    dianne: you could always ask; labs sometimes have adoption policies. (Or bans, but it can’t hurt to ask.)

  21. says

    Teal deer for my relationship whinges
    D has a very high sex drive, and some possessiveness issues. L has amoerately high sex drive, possessiveness issues and pain issues. I have a fairly high ses drive but stress tends to lower it. D wants more sex than L is up to, and worries that he wants me and not her. L gets upset by theis, and is less up to sex, esp with her. L also worriwe that if D and I atart having sex, we won’t want him anymore with the pshot that no one’s geveryone ends up having less sex than they want, and puts added stress on everything. I just needed to vent a bit there.

  22. dianne says

    I had a couple of mice that were extras after a biology lab when I was in college. I don’t mind killing rodents for data or to avoid the spread of disease, but hated killing them for nothing. So I took them home instead (with permission). It could probably be done. They must have some control rats. Though socialization might be questionable.

  23. sethmassine says

    Who wants to have a fake debate with me? I would play the wide-eyed creationist who dreams of becoming a tour guide at the grand canyon.

  24. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    We’re here for you, Dalillama.

    Relationships are complicated to navigate and you can always vent to us. Consider my brain vented, even.

  25. Pteryxx says

    dianne: as long as they’re not transgenic or disease-model rats, they’re probably neutral or better temperament-wise and probably are used to being handled. Researchers don’t like working with nasty bitey rats. I’d rather have rescued lab rats than risk taking pet-store rats any day.

  26. says

    More on the halting and somewhat ineffective reforms of the Boy Scout organization when it comes to how they treat gays:

    It’s not really progress – or even compromise – if your gentle, glacial-paced attempts at moving into the 21st century reek of condescension and open up a whole big can of outright bigotry. So let’s try this again, shall we, Boy Scouts?

    The famously LGBT-averse organization has in recent months been taking awkward steps toward becoming more inclusive, thanks to a series of high-profile challenges and increasing pleas for greater tolerance within its ranks. In January, it announced it was “potentially discussing” changing its restrictions on gay members. Then, last month, it unveiled a new survey it’s sending to its members that will feel them out on a few scenarios that “could happen if the Boy Scouts keeps or changes its policy” – scenarios that bear no small resemblance to recent high-profile stories involving gay Scouts and adult leaders who’ve been shut out because of their orientation. It was a peculiar move – one that had the appearance of progress but the suggestion that equality toward those oddly classified “open homosexuals” is something that can be dictated by the tastes of an organization’s members….

    Link to article.

  27. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    Well, Seth, if you want to have a Fundie Off, you can parrot the Mormon line and I’ll parrot the Calvinist line.

    I think you’d win on style grounds and I’d win on nonsense grounds.

  28. sethmassine says

    Alright, sounds like a damn fine time to me. so, explain the EYE! Oops…the creationist past that held me in its clutches comes out now and again… :/

  29. rq says

    While you’re on your creationist binge, why don’t you explain the recurrent laryngeal nerve?

  30. rq says

    I was actually expecting more hand-waving and speaking in tongues, but that answer will do just fine.

  31. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    Here, sethmassine, you may find these helpful in translating the whargarble.

    *hands sethmassine his hat and seer stone*

  32. says

    Thank you, Crip Dyke, and congrats on finishing exams.
    Basically, the situation is such that I feel like I’m caught between them now, b/c L doesn’t want D and I to be having sex, and D is jealous of L and my relationship, which adds extra stress. I personally think that these fears are incorrect, and represent a mapping of previous bad relationships onto the current one, but thinking that doesn’t really help things at all, because the various fears etc. are still there. I dunno, like I aid, I’m just stressed and venting, sorry if I’m not real coherent.

    *hugs* to all those who desire them. I’m still ‘rupt on specifics, though.

  33. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says

    I would play the wide-eyed creationist who dreams of becoming a tour guide at the grand canyon.

    Go for it. I am intimately familiar with the geology of the Grand Canyon. I even helped carry up some the samples used in the exhibit in the Yavapai Point museum.

  34. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says


    When I was 12 years old, my father took me out of school for two days and we hiked to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. As we passed the Temple Butte Limestone and the Tonto formation (Muav Limestone, Bright Angel Shale and Tapeats Sandstone) we began taking samples of each layer, placing them in my almost empty backpack, and carrying them down to Phantom Ranch. We sampled the Temple Butte (a nice exposure along the Kaibab Trail), the Tonto, the accessible Grand Canyon Group, the Vishnu Schist and the Zoroaster Granite. We also sampled the dikes and sills within the metamorphosed pre-Cambrian formations. By the time we got to the bottom, my pack weighed around 60 pounds. Those rocks came out of the canyon by mule. We repeated the process on the way up, sampling the Redwall Limestone, the Supai Group, the Hermit Shale, Coconino Sandstone, Toroweap Limestone and Kaibab Limestone.

    Ordinarily, this would be illegal as all get-out, but my dad was a Park Ranger and we were collecting the rocks for the museum at Yavapai Point. Years later, when I visited the canyon again, I was rather put-out. The large rocks we had hauled up and down the canyon trails had been cut down to samples twice the size of my fist. I carried rocks three times the size, and they cut them down to little bitty pieces. We could have chopped them down to size before lugging them around.

    According to more than half of Americans, the Grand Canyon is a monument to Noah’s Flood. The shales, limestones, sandstones, lava flows, block faulting of the Grand Canyon Supergroup, the metamorphic Vishnu Schist and Zoroaster Granite (metamorphosed from sandstone, limestone, shale and lava flows) were deposited during and directly after the Noatic flood. A few days of water draining off of the land (to where?) depositing different types of sediment (sediment from where?) leaving the Grand Canyon. Some Christian Young Earth Creationists see the miracle of God in everything and dismiss naturalistic explanations as being limited, depressing, and heretical.

    When I first encountered this view of geology, my thought was, “How limited. How depressing. How boring.” Two billion years of history reduced to a couple of weeks of flood drainage. A kindergartner’s version of earth history. Talk Origins very effectively argues against this rather primitive myth.

    The reality is not only based upon fact, but a much better non-mythical tale.

    Between 1.7 billion and 2 billion years ago, ancient (well, hell, at that age, they better be ancient) sediments, the remains of seas, deserts, deltas and volcanic eruptions, were folded into a mountain range that may have been higher than the Rocky Mountains. The pressure and heat at the root of the mountains metamorphosed the sediments creating the Vishnu and Zoroaster formations. Over millions of years, the mountains were eroded by wind, rain, ice and snow, down to their roots. Thanks to the changes wrought by metamorphosis, along with the lavas, radiometric dating gives a very accurate age.

    This plain creates the Pre-Cambrian uncomformity — a time when no sediment was being deposited. This gap in time represents about 450 million years.

    Starting around 1,250 million years ago, a shallow sea flooded the plain laying down the Bass Limestone — the beginnings of the Unkar Group. Over the next 150 million years, the Hakatai Shale, Shinumo Quartzite, Dox Sandstone and Cardenas lavas were successively laid down. Stromatolites and primitive algae fossils are found in the Bass and Dox formations. Again, the lava flows make accurate dating easy.

    Another uncomformity, this one of about 50 million years, separates out a sandstone (the Nankoweap formation, found only in the eastern Grand Canyon). After another uncomformity of 50 million years, the Chuar Group was deposited. The Galeros formation (interbedded shale, limestone and sandstone), the shale and mudstone of the Kwagunt, and the sandstone and shale of the Sixtymile formation were laid down between 825 and 1,000 million years ago. One more uncomformity (called the Great Uncomformity), represents a gap of 280 million years (to put things in perspective, that amount of time covers the entire time from before the dinosaurs to today).

    Each of these groups, and the unconfomities separating them, represent a quarter-of-a-billion years. They represent seas, oceans, eruptions, deserts, deltas, valleys, plains and mud bogs are from a time when there were no vertebrates, no complex plants, no predators, no prey, no land animals, no land plants, no breathable air. A time when none of the animals supposedly on Noah’s Ark existed.

    Following the Great Unconformity is the Tonto Formation (Tonto is Spanish for silly or stupid — and having hiked across the plains of the Tonto Formation many times, I would have to agree). The Tapeats Sandstone was laid down by an ocean and includes fossil trilobites (during the 5 years I lived at Grand Canyon, I never saw a fossil trilobite (always pissed me off)) and brachiopods. One hell of a jump in complexity of life. This 545 million year old wave sorted sandstone is the tan cliff at the top of the inner gorge of the canyon. About 530 million years ago, the Bright Angel Shale was laid down (interspersed with some sandy limestone and sandstone lensing) followed 15 million years later by the Muav Limestone.

    Yet another uncomformity of 165 million years separates the Tonto from the Temple Butte formation. This limestone and dolomite fills in creek and river valleys carved into the top of the Bright Angel Shale. This eroded layer is further proof of the incredible time factor involved — the Bright Angel had to solidify before the creeks and rivers created the uneven upper contact.

    One of the two most dramatic formations is a brown limestone cliff standing some 400 to 500 feet high. Minerals washed down from above give it a dramatic bright red colour as well as its name: Redwall Limestone. Dating to 335 million years ago, this massive formation of dolomite and limestone includes brachiopods, clams, snails, corals, fish and trilobites.

    Above the Redwall is the Supai Formation. This 285 million year old formation consists of shale and mudstones with a little limestone and sandstone mixed in. Iron oxides wash out of the Supai and down the face of the Redwall. This formation, probably a massive river delta (think Louisiana) includes fossils of amphibians, reptiles and terrestrial plants.

    The 265 million year old Hermit Shale tops the Supai Formation. This is one of the softer rocks in the canyon. As it erodes, it undercuts the Coconino Sandstone, occasionally sending massive blocks tumbling down the canyon walls, sometimes as far as the Tonto Formation. Fossils include ferns, conifers and other plants, as well as some fossilized tracks of reptiles and amphibians.

    The other incredibly dramatic layer in the Grand Canyon is the Coconino Sandstone. This pale yellowish-white sandstone represents a desert environment (no, AIG, it is not an aquatic formation!) and dates to about 260 million years ago. There are no skeletal fossils, but trackways and raindrop fossils are found.

    The Toroweap Formation consists of sandy limestone, slightly darker than the Kaibab above, is a 255 million year old. Along with the 5 million year younger Kaibab Limestone, it represents a Triassic sea. Fossils include brachiopods, corals, sea lilies, mollusks, worms and fish teeth. This is the whitish bathtub ring around the top of the Grand Canyon. Younger layers (which can be seen at Arches, Zion, Capital Reef and Cedar Breaks) have been eroded away.

    Here’s a shorter version of what I just described:


    (Graphic from the University of Michigan)

    So why describe the layers of the Grand Canyon so minutely? Mostly, to show the abject poverty of the creationists mythology. Within this one vertical slice of earth’s history, we see the roots of a mighty mountain chain in the Pre-Cambrian metamorphic rocks of the inner gorge. We see evidence of erosion, deposition, erosion, deposition, and block faulting and tilting in the Grand Canyon Supergroup. We see the advance and recession, over massive periods of time, of oceans and seas. We see the swamps of deltas, the eroded surface of an undulating plain, a massive desert of sand dunes and small lacertilians, and another ocean. We see the different types of rock, added, folded, changed, erodes, and deposited in many different environments.

    And we see fossils. From the stromatolites and algae of the Grand Canyon Supergroup to the brachiopods and trilobites of the Tonto Group, from the snails, corals, fish and trilobites of the Redwall to the ferns and amphibians of the Supai, from the reptiles of the Coconino to the fish, sea lilies and corals of the Kaibab, we see the development of life. From algae to lizards, from trilobites to fish, from ferns to conifers, we see the fossil column match exactly the geological column. We can date the layers accurately either through various radiometric methods or by comparing an ‘undateable’ fossil from the Grand Canyon with a radiometrically dated fossil from elsewhere in the world.

    Were the Grand Canyon the result of the Noatic Flood, would all the different dating methods reliably yield the same ages in the same order? the same gaps? Were the Grand Canyon the result of the Noatic Flood, would the fossil column show the development of life from the algae and stromatolites of the Pre-Cambrian through the advanced fishes of the Triassic? In the same order shown elsewhere in the world?

    Young Earth Creationism, Biblical Literalism, and Christian Fundamentalism is a severely limiting philosophy. By assuming that the answer to any question is that God Did It, creationists choose to ignore the reality around them. They ignore the evidence left by billions of years of earth’s history. Their version of earth is without evidence. Their version of earth is without proof. Their version of earth is limited, depressing and boring. Their version of earth is a poverty of the human spirit of inquiry, knowledge and truth.

    Sadly, men and women who follow this anti-intellectual pseudo-philosophy and attempting to force their limited view of the possible down the throats of all Americans. In Texas, anti-intellectual godbots are attempting to limit the study of American history, of evolution and biology, and even the age of the universe. And Texas, being such a big buyer of textbooks, influences limits the choices of every state in the union.

    If you prefer the one paragraph version near the top of this post, so be it. Just don’t expect the rest of us to bend over and take it. Two billion years of geologic edvidence trumps a bunch of self-contradictory bronze age myths. And it does it by studying the evidence. Ya’ll should try it. Might be a new experience for you.

  35. says

    HI there
    Too tired to contribute, I’ll just leave hugs, ‘specially for Dalillama.


    Now you know why I’m an atheist

  36. sethmassine says

    Very well put, good sir. Your knowledge of the true origins of the canyon are very impressive. I remember believing that gods wrath and jealousy was the catalyst of the canyon, and many other geological features found world-wide. Belief preservation is quite a bitch, eh? Science really has opened my eyes.

  37. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says

    Your knowledge of the true origins of the canyon are very impressive.

    Nowhere do I state that this truth. This is what the available evidence (as of some years ago) says is the most probable geologic history of the formations with the canyon. Truth is for religion, not reality.

  38. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says


    That is actually off of my defunct blog. When I did that the first time, that was about an hour of double-checking my faulty memory.

  39. Pteryxx says


    Ogvorbis, that comment would make a splendid polished blog post. Definitely a keeper.

  40. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says



    My dad was a geologist who went into the NPS. Grand Canyon (and his previous posting, Death Valley) were heaven.

  41. Esteleth, the most colossal nerd on Pharyngula says

    Random anecdote:

    For many years, the family tradition on the 4th Thursday in November was:
    (1) Gorge on food at 5 pm.
    (2) Watch Fantasia.

    (this has now been altered whereby we watch the Westminster Dog Show)

    I distinctly remember one year my father grumping that the Rite of Spring sequence was “excessively Darwinian.”

    I remain befuddled by this.

  42. says

    So, you know how I mentioned this BullyCat last week?

    Gracie has been lethargic and feverish since Friday.

    Turns out that little fucker bit my baby girl on the tail, and now she has a lovely abscess and a raging infection. She gets the unmatchable “joy” of a night in hospital for observation and a course of antibiotics.

    Fucking Bully Cat gets away with terrorizing MY BABY.

    I do NOT has a happy.

  43. says

    To go with Ogvorbis’s post @553, here is a gallery of photos my brother took in northern Arizona:

    I was with him when he took the photos from the Toroweap Overlook on the north rim of the Grand Canyon. We camped near that area in early spring, when snow on the approach roads kept most would-be visitors away. It was lovely to be there alone, to just enjoy the spectacular scenery and the desert environment with no human noise to accompany us.

    I also accompanied my brother on the Paria Wilderness (Coyote Buttes) and Buckskin Gulch area expeditions. Most of these photos were taken on the Utah/Arizona border, not near the Grand Canyon.

    I associate bad memories with only one set of photos: Havasu Falls. We hiked an over-used trail from the southern side of Grand Canyon to the Havasupai Indian Reservation. Some of the horses seemed starved and were eating their own droppings. We were warned about crime. Public drunkenness and huge numbers of offensive tourists who had flown in by helicopter almost overwhelmed the place.

    For purposes of illustrating Ogvorbis’s post, the Toroweap Overlook photos are probably the most appropriate. I really like the less-accessible parts of the North Rim.

  44. says

    While nowhere as bad as peas, celery is another food I do not like.
    I THINK RAISINS ARE WORSE THAN PEAS. At least with the latter, you can mix them with meatloaf and mashed potatoes to mask their blecchiness.
    You cannot do that with raisins. That blasted wilted semisquishy texture is totes not for me.

  45. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says

    I was with him when he took the photos from the Toroweap Overlook

    Oh, I love Toroweap. A volcano right on the rim of the canyon. With a lava waterfall right into the river. And whitewater. I’ve seen it from the rim and from the river. My dad took his Yavapai Community College class, The Geology of the Grand Canyon, on a three day field trip there every time he taught the course.

    We hiked an over-used trail from the southern side of Grand Canyon to the Havasupai Indian Reservation. Some of the horses seemed starved and were eating their own droppings. We were warned about crime. Public drunkenness and huge numbers of offensive tourists who had flown in by helicopter almost overwhelmed the place.

    Back when I was there, it was a nice, though very poor, small town. I went to school with a girl from Havasu. She became a Baptist missionary. Her little sister works for the NPS as backcountry patrol by raft. She is (or was?) well known for giving talks to the commercial raft groups about the Havasu, Hopi, Navajo, and Abrahamic myths about the formation of the canyon. She is also well versed in the geology so she can present ‘all sides’.

    For purposes of illustrating Ogvorbis’s post, the Toroweap Overlook photos are probably the most appropriate.

    The exposures at Toroweap are the Supai formation down to the Temple Butte Limestone (I think). Vulcan’s Throne, the volcano, is only about 10k years old (but it is still older than the earth).



    I apologize. I took your humour as serious thus the uncalled-for tl;dr;.

  46. sethmassine says

    Tony, I am greatly enjoying myself. Odd…I’m listening to my parents read from an ICR publication at the moment O-o

  47. says

    Welcome in sethmassine. sorry to miss you.

    I either have food poisoning now, or I got the flu; I’m feverish and can’t hold down even liquids. This is not helping with the stress, etc. even a little bit. Nor is the fact that even now we are able to get some help for D at least, they can’t get her in until the 20th of next month, so in the meantime we’re still doing our best, within our various limitations. Sorry to keep on whinging about this, but it’s really on my mind right now.

  48. Portia, worn out says

    ‘ruptish. Celebrated Earth Day by evacuating people because of a flood that threatens to get worse. Thanks a lot, Earth. : p

  49. sethmassine says

    My earth day celebration was smoking a J with a few hippy friends, while discussing climate change. Well, not really “with” them…we skyped lol

  50. Portia, worn out says

    Oh, man, Dalillama, so many hugs. I’m really sorry everything sucks right now. I wish I had advice. But I always have an ear for you. *hot tea*?

  51. morgan says


    I’ve been reading nearly everything written, good and bad, speculative, etc about the Tsarnaev brothers and I’m missing one fact. What did these two do for income? The only family in this country were two sisters in New York and an estranged uncle. Did the younger have student financial aid? How? Did the elder repair cars? Many facts are unknown. Just curious if anyone has discovered anything factual about this pair. Many thanks.

  52. sethmassine says

    My computer sucks, just saw your post Dalillama. Hope you get better. I had a nasty virus a few weeks back, threw up EVERYthing…so I feel your pain.

  53. Portia, worn out says

    I just realized why I was annoyed 70% of the time I was at my grandma’s this weekend. She and that whole side of the family treat me like a wilting, delicate flower. It was a migraine, ffs, I didn’t need to be asked every five minutes how I was. My grandma said I wasn’t allowed to drive home til I felt better and threatened to call my mom. I resisted snarking that my mom thinks I’m an adult. Grandma and Aunt were scandalized/horrified at the idea of Cousin (who is a 21 year old woman) traveling to Australia with colleagues for work. Because her husband would be in Missouri. Grandma advised us to take a “ballbat” everywhere we went. I got really sick of being infantilized and I didn’t even realize it til after I left.

  54. Portia, worn out says

    You’re always so kind and understanding. Especially in tough times, L and D are lucky to have you. *hugsback*

  55. Hekuni Cat, MQG says


    Today’s mission: Keeping calm and getting one thing done at a time.

    Good plan, and one I intend to use when I get up later this morning. Also, *hugs*

    sethmassine – Welcome to the Lounge!

    Crip Dyke – Congratulations on finishing your exams.

    Dalillama – *hugs and chocolate*

  56. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says


    Someone who rocks as hard as you do should not have to put up with that shit. Seriously, my day never involves helping folks as significantly as you do with both the firing and lawyering and yet people never infantilise me like that.


    Hang in there. Your patience and perseverance are something to aspire to.

    As to the vomiting: Never have I hated hearing a phrase more than when head down over a toilet my “spiritual”, “enlightened” and “gnostic” room-mate stated: “Don’t worry, this too shall pass.” I damn near turned around and passed my shalls all over her shoes.

  57. rowanvt says

    Tomorrow is the start of my ‘weekend’. This is a good thing, because this has been the week from fucking hell. Each day we said “Surely today cannot be as bad as yesterday/the last 2/3/4 days…” and that’s true. Because it was worse.

    I look forward to spending most of tomorrow unconscious, except for Parsnip feeding times.

    Speaking of Parsnip, I have found the secret technique to make him pee like a normal kitten. He is apparently rather *ahem* delicate and sensitive down there and instead of proper stimulation he wants feather-light touches of the cotton ball. He is a delicate flower that becomes distraught by rough handling.

    My kitten is a drama-llama. And it will only get worse. Eyes still aren’t open yet, but it should be sooooooooon!

    And now I’m going to go eat ice cream for dinner. Again. Because.

  58. says

    Good morning

    Hot tea with honey for Dalillama

    Urgh, that sounds really annoying. I fortunately not suffering from migraines but form people I know who do, they usually prefer to be left alone.

    Sleep well, rowanvt


    after cleaning my cookies

    What did you do to get them dirty?

    Am I just being stupid again or does KIndle not display and have page numbers?
    Or does it depend on the book?
    Because it would rather defy the purpose for which I mainly bought the book, which is to use it in academic contexts because I can hardly reference something as “at my 6th personal bookmark”.

  59. says

    re: Kindle page numbers

    I’m using the Kindle app on my lappy, so this may or may not apply to the standalone Kindle devices. And I have no clue what the accessibility features on the Kindle devices are — I’m assuming one can, for example, jack up the size of the print for those with low vision.

    No page numbers. Just “location abc/xyz”.

    I think — at least, this is what makes sense to me — that because you can resize the window (for the app) and/or adjust the text size, that page numbers would (at best) vary based on text size, making hard-coded “page X” indicators utterly useless. That is, your page 90 might not be my page 90, because I keep text sizes cranked up for easy reading.

    If anyone here knows more about these e-readers, hey, weigh in — I’m going with the data available to me at this moment.

  60. rq says

    Good morning!
    Working backwards and randomly:
    I’ve had two (one died when it came into close contact with a rather powerful magnet) and they do show page numbers. Even with the re-sizing, it maintains the actual page numbers, and just gives a different number of screens per page. Then again, these are all older models that I got off people rejecting them for newer ones, so they may have done away with page numbers in the meantime. My instinct is that it depends on the text/format. Can’t really help any more than that!

    *extra scritches* for your kitty, and shame on BullyCat! I hope the infection passes soon and Gracie is once again her old frisky self.

    I have, like, so many *hugs* for you. As someone upstream said, D and L are extremely lucky to have you, and I hope for the best for all three of you – that things work out, that the jealousy is worked out, that you get a break once in a while, and, in the end, that everyone gets as much sex as they like without worrying about rejection. I know it’s hard, so these are sort of long-term wishes for all of you. :( Hang in there, and vent away whenever you need to!

    Thank you for this magnificent lesson on the Grand Canyon to start my morning. Truly fascinating, especially that you got to be a part of it all. Sucks about re-sizing the exhibits, though. (And thank you Lynna for the photos to go with the text!)

    Good question. Now I’m wondering, too.

    *hugs* for Portia, you are about the furthest thing from a delicate flower and I wish your family would realize that. It sounds like they don’t appreciate the things that you do.
    Then again, grandmothers. They coddle way too much.

    I’m going to have to disagree about raisins. They’re not my favourite, but they definitely have their uses. More than Peas. (Hey, at least we’re on Team Anti-Celery together!)

    It’s good to hear that Parsnip is improving, and I hope he toughens up as he grows! ;) Otherwise you’ll have to change his name to Wilting Violet. (Any more pictures?)

    I may have missed something in that list, but I’ll get to it eventually!

  61. rq says

    Uh, ok… This was supposed to be funny? Actually, it’s a great example of the patriarchy at work and how women themselves go along with it and pressure others to go along with it, too. I’m going to add a Mild Trigger Warning for misogynistic language and an extremely dramatic reading.

    Oh hello, there, fruit fly, how diverse your scientific uses! The study itself (there’s a link to it in the article too).

  62. says

    Thanks, WMD Kitty and rq
    I’m using the Kindle app on my tablet (because why buy a Kindle when you can get a half way decent tablet for the same money?) and I only have one book on it, and that doesn’t show page numbers. I have the feeling that it depends on the book, because the fucking thing doesn’t even have a decent index with chapters.
    I’m also realizing how much time I actually spend with all of you during the term break. No time to even read blogs at the moment, let alone participate

  63. mildlymagnificent says

    Well I never! Harrrummmph.

    Celery is wonderful. It is the prime crispy green salad vegetable as far as I’m concerned. (My sister might best be described as a celery addict.) I remember turning up at a friend’s place for a BBQ after a 5 day conference. The person who’d organised it had carefully checked that meals would include fresh salads and other foods. After the first couple of days with only pastries for morning teas, and apparently all salads at meals came out of tins when they weren’t just rice or pasta with bits added (from tins), and the predictable multitudes of complaints descending on her overworked head, we finally – on day four – got fresh fruit for morning tea. The bowls were emptied in super quick time, and many pockets were suspiciously bulging with contraband for later consumption.

    Arrived at friend’s place, husband and kids turned up – and I suddenly realised I’d been idly “picking” at the salad bowl on the table the whole time. I’d consumed practically all the celery along with substantial portions of the lettuce, snow peas, tomatoes and other items originally prepared to serve eight of us.

    Craving fresh food, especially celery, can turn even the politest person into a selfish thoughtless greedypants.

  64. rq says

    The last thing this country needs is more water in the shape of rain.
    Oh, and this is why swimming in Latvian rivers is currently dangerous: the swirling vortex aspiring for black-hole-hood. The first minute or so is impressive, but the real awesomeness starts around 2.20. At about 5.30, it meets its match – and wins. (The most insightful comment:


    Now pretend you’ve fallen into the river with all your clothes on. :/

  65. bluentx says

    Morning. rq!
    Re your comment/link yesterday about ‘geography fails’… Grrooaan!
    Uneducated ignorance (or tender age) is one excuse thing, but to boldly and with such forth-rightyness advertise your ignorance to a global audience…*sigh*

    Even before the word Chechnya was being used in the news reports, the conspiracy theorists started saying, “Oh! These ‘explosions’ can’t be a coincidence!” Just think how much their brains will be taxed when they find out that West,Tx has a large (relative to its size) Czech (heritage) community!* [They must be linked!!eleventy-eleven!!!]

    Prior to the explosion, the first thing that came to my mind when hearing about West was—kolaches(!)-nom-nom-nom…Locally, if someone finds out you’ll be travelling that stretch of I-35 the next thing you’ll hear is’ “If you stop in West bring me some Kolaches, okay?”

  66. rq says

    Craving fresh food – yes (I regularly pick out avocado and tomatoes out of salads, even knowing that the kids like them, too (they can have the cucumbers!)). Craving celery – not so much (I’ll eat it but only under duress or a serious fresh veggie deficiency).

    I don’t even want to go there… I hope the Chechnya/Czech non-identicalness is cleared up soon, and hey oh wait, it’s still not ok to target all Chechnyans as potential terrorists and call for bombing their country (besides, Russia already has that taken care of)! Dammit… There’s no good way out of this situation. :( (It’s bad enough that Latvia is sometimes placed in the Caucasus/Balkans… But at least there’s no name similarity.)

  67. bluentx says

    No, no name similarity but twice in the last week I’ve had to explain : “Yes, there is a country called Latvia….” *double sigh*

  68. rq says

    :) Welcome to my world! Is that in Russia? … the Balkans? They speak Russian, right? That’s not a real country. They speak Latin?
    (Why were you discussing Latvia, incidentally?)

  69. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    In American movies happening in Croatia/Serbia/Bosnia, there almost exclusively plays Russian music in the background.
    Not to mention side-characters who speak mostly Serbian, but with occasional foreign (Russian? Czech?) word thrown in, because it’s all the same, right?

  70. bluentx says

    Why were you discussing Latvia, incidentally?

    Due to some wacky weather fluctuations in the last week or so, my part of some conversations included describing your ‘river of ice’ videos…*
    One conversation involved a couple in their seventies the other was a coworker who is 54(?). I don’t know that younger would have equalled better informed.

    *And BTW, I do not want to think about falling in that water(@ 595) clothed or not!

  71. bluentx says


    Christina “Chrissy” Amphlett–frontwoman for the Australian rock band the Divinyls, whose “I Touch Myself” went to number four on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart in 1991–died Sunday at her home in New York. Amphlett was 53 years old.

    “…the charismatic singer died after battling multiple sclerosis since 2007 and breast cancer since 2010.”

    Amphlett had “expressed hope that her worldwide hit ‘I Touch Myself’ would remind women to perform annual breast examinations.”

    Well, I’ll definitely associate the two from now on…


  72. says

    Dear stomach
    Stop acting like I was not feeding you. That was the last one of our sandwiches. Deal with it.

    I also just had a “visit from the past”. Met an old acquaintance back from schooldays. I didn’t recognize her but she recognized me.
    I didn’t even know she was in college here. She probably started while I was at home….

  73. rq says

    Thanks for the link about Christina Amphlett. Will definitely be making the association now, too!
    Also, while I used to be a big fan, Apple is slowly pushing me away (I read the Siri link).

    Same with Latvians. Big joke, haha, Where the hell is Latvia?, haha. And then they all speak Russian.
    All the same, yup, that’s us.

  74. rq says

    Yeah, IMF-imposed austerity over here. Can’t say it’s been doing a heck of a lot of good for the human element in these parts. Oh wait, the Senate just raised their own salaries again – that’s a good thing, right?

  75. says

    I was having a problem with my book, but I think I realized the solution very quickly.

    My chapters are short, very short. At most I think I’ve got about a three page chapter (8.5×11, though so maybe about five pages in your standard hardcover book.) So I was thinking there was a problem with that – most book chapters are 7-10-15 pages long standard! I have to expand more.

    Wait… *I thought*… my book is basically a police procedural drama. I’ve watched Law and Order, CSI, the Wire, all those shows enough to know that they never stick with the same character for long. Five to seven minutes usually, at most I think there was a fifteen minute long segment with one of the characters. Translated to book form, this could easily be two to three pages.

    I’m not so much writing chapters as I am writing little sections: “Everfrost 24, Morning, the Ministry of Justice”, “Everfrost 26, Afternoon, the Home of Kaden Morn”, “Everfrost 30, Evening, Market Square.” I could see these as those little splash screens in Law and Order between each interview. I just so happen to be skipping between the A investigation and B investigation and little bits and pieces of characters touching the A and B investigations for some character and plot development.

    This is going to be an interesting experience.

  76. blf says

    Sure, a van with “come in and touch a rat to feel good” written on the side driving around neighborhoods…

    No, no, a forty-foot high killer rat lurching around the neighborhoods wearing a signboard saying “hug me to feel good”.

  77. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says

    Sure, a van with “come in and touch a rat to feel good” written on the side driving around neighborhoods…

    No, no, a forty-foot high killer rat lurching around the neighborhoods wearing a signboard saying “hug me to feel good”.

    No, no, no. Too negative. A forty-foot high aggressively affectionate rat lurching around the neighborhoods wearing a signboard saying “hug me to feel good”. See? No negative connotations.

  78. blf says

    Somerset businessman found guilty of selling fake bomb detectors to Iraq:

    A jury at the Old Bailey found Jim McCormick, 57, from near Taunton, guilty on three counts of fraud over a scam that included the sale of £55m of devices based on a novelty golfball finder to Iraq. They were installed at checkpoints in Baghdad through which car bombs and suicide bombers passed killing hundreds of civilians.

    He claimed they could detect explosives at long range, deep underground, through lead-lined rooms and multiple buildings. In fact, the handheld devices were useless. Their antennae, which purported to detect explosives, and in other cases narcotics, were not even connected to anything, they had no power source and one of the devices was simply the golfball finder with a different sticker on top.

    He had sold around 6,000 devices to Iraq for as much as £10,000 each while the production cost for the device was as low as £15. McCormick grew rich on the enormous mark-up. He owns a mansion in Bath, a holiday home in Cyprus and a Sunseeker yacht as part of assets worth £7m identified by police.

    One of McCormick’s devices, the ADE 101, was essentially a golfball finder described by its maker as “a great novelty item that you should have fun with”. The antenna was “no more a radio antenna than a nine-inch nail”, according to one scientist who analysed the device.

    Consignments of the devices were once stopped at the UK border before being exported and officials queried whether export documents were required. The reason none were needed was they could find no functioning electronics inside.

    Would it be inappropriate to suggest this clown be used as a minesweeper?

  79. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says

    Would it be inappropriate to suggest this clown be used as a minesweeper?

    But he’s a job creator. How dare they limit his ability to create jobs. After all, right now, he’s marketing a push broom minesweeper for the non-tax-paying coddled poor to use. See? Creating jobs. For doctors, surgeons, nurses, undertakers . . . .

    This guy is pretty low.

  80. blf says

    I just spent 10 minutes refreshing page1 while muttering “Where is everybody?”

    Eaten by the peas, horse, and celery whilst distracted trying to work out how to hug a forty-foot “aggressively affectionate” killer rat…

  81. blf says

    Is shipping rats even safe?

    The forty-foot high killer models have no problems going whereever they want to go…

  82. blf says

    Researchers don’t like working with nasty bitey rats.

    There’s always the FrakenRat, Beyond Room 101: The hyperaggressive rat:

    This hyperaggressive rat is a legacy of a remarkable experiment started in the former Soviet Union in 1972 by Dmitry Belyaev.

    He caught wild rats around the Siberian city of Novosibirsk and selectively bred two colonies on a farm a few kilometres away, hoping to mimic the process by which Neolithic farmers first domesticated animals. One colony was selected for tameness, the other for aggression.

    The rats bred for tameness were incredibly easy to handle, while the aggressive ones were so prone to scream and bite that [visiting geneticist Svante] Pääbo said: “I got the feeling that 10 or 20 of them would probably kill me if they got out of the cages.”

    Dmitri Belyaev is also responsible for the famous domesticated silver fox experiment.

    I read a longer article about the hyperagressive rat experiment someplace (cannot find it now), which, as I recall, mentioned having to wear chainmail gloves to handle them, and other precautions (such as, as I recall, never being alone when in the same room as the cages).

    Apparently these rats make the forty-foot high killers tame plush toys by comparison.

  83. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    I was having a good morning today. Called my mom for something for the Little One and was greeted with “Happy Birthday!”.

    My response: Aw, fuck.

    I had totally forgotten.


    I just want to go back to bed and cry now.

  84. blf says

    I just want to go back to bed and cry now.

    Isn’t this when you need a rat scurrying about?

  85. rq says

    Good luck with that!

    So, from your conclusion – are your chapters still too short, or will you be keeping them that short on purpose? (And wow, deja vu, writing that sentence, for some reason.) I’ve found it hard to follow books where a lot of skipping is happening. Works a bit better visually, but I really hate it when I start getting a feel for the character’s situation and suddenly my perspective is shifted to a different one, sometimes it’s difficult to regain a sense of connection when coming back to that character. Dunno, that’s just me.

  86. rq says

    I, too, would love to read work the length of, say, Lord of the Rings, with no chapters – and no paragraph breaks, too!
    Or do you mean skipping from character to character but with no defined chapter breaks?

  87. says


    Yea I want to keep the sections short purposefully. The reason I do the skipping is because I jump over travel time. The city’s a good 5 miles long (2 miles wide) and rather than have five pages of “and so Mara and Valkir walked from the site of the murder to the morgue” I jump over to Owin and Jase getting a notice of inquiry (read: search warrant) from the Ministry of Justice. Then I go to Mara and Valkir at the morgue with Ona. Then back to Jase and Owin conducting the warrant on the bank. Then back to Mara and Valkir taking an appraisal of the evidence seized from the murder scene.

    If that gets too confusing what I may end up doing is a kind of day-by-day blow-by-blow of each of the character sets, so Everfrost 23 – Mara and Valkir will be one chapter, then Everfrost 23 – Jase and Owin will be another chapter. Problem I’d have with that is that it’d make it much more difficult to include the little non-MV/JO snippets I stuff in the middle of some of those character transitions – which allow character development of those who aren’t on the investigative unit (like Karthus and Trisha for example.)

  88. blf says

    [D]o you mean skipping from character to character but with no defined chapter breaks?

    Something like that. One example of an author who can do this Terry Pratchett.
    Of course, not all authors or stories should, or perhaps could, be done that way. Your example of Lord of the Rings seems like a good example of a story which benefits from having chapters. (The books, or individual volumes, were, as I understand it, more a result of paper rationing and economic considerations in post-war Limeyland than anything else.)

    Writing without paragraph breaks is called “poetry”…

  89. rq says

    Actually that sounds like it makes a lot of sense, if you’re talking about skipping travel time (boy, do those kinds of novels get tedious). I’m more concerned about the Eternal Cliffhanger. You know, constantly ending with And her eyes widened as she saw what was behind the door. or His sword swung almost languidly towards her head. and then picking up slightly after that specific action. Game of Thrones (by which I mean, George Martin) did this a few times in the books, and it was annoying as all hell.
    Anyway, your description doesn’t sound all that confusing at all, better than what I had imagined.

    Poetry is writing with all the paragraph breaks. As many as can possibly be placed in a sentence.

  90. blf says

    How ’bout mid-action potty breaks?

    Well,just when was the last time a hero / villain / character had a pee?

    (Not pea. Alrthough seeing a pea bearing down on you might cause you to pee out of sheer fright…)

  91. rq says

    *faints with relief*
    :) (Not that it matters what I think if I’m not your target audience.)

    In Game of Thrones, pee-breaks and such are mentioned for several characters throughout, usually to help the plot along or to emphasize some particular thing (like fear). I would have to think long and hard for other books doing the same. (And the only reason I keep mentioning GoT is because I don’t know, I just seem to be mentioning it a lot, and I’m not even reading any of the books or watching Season 3 currently; sorry about that.)

  92. birgerjohansson says

    The forty-foot high aggressively affectionate rat could get a thick coat and hug Spiney Norman.

  93. Portia, worn out says

    That’s really kind of you. Thanks :) *hugs*

    Yeah, having to constantly evaluate just how much discomfort I was in was sort of anxiety-inducing as a bonus. : /

    Hope the reader pages work out. My thought, like WMDKitty’s, was that the reader likely has different numbers of words on each page than the paper copy would. Which of course doesn’t bode well for your needs. : |

    thanks : ) This is the side of the family that doesn’t know me very well because 1)My dad is not good at family togetherness (ready for a (non)surprise? My mom does the emotional/physical/organizational work of keeping (in this case her ex-husband’s) family in touch in my family) 2)That side of the family thinks roads only go one way and give me guilt trips for not traveling their way but I can count on one …finger the number of times they’ve traveled this way in the last twenty years.

    And, I should add, I sometimes do act like a delicate flower when I’m sick, but it’s mostly when my mom is around to take care of me. : )

    Rivers: Our big river doesn’t have black holes, I don’t think. But boy is it still a picnic to fish out a swimmer! (I mean a live person in this situation, I’d rather not think about the alternative, though I have done that sort of search too).

    It’s really interesting to read about your writing process.

  94. Portia, worn out says

    I forgot to return Hekuni Cat’s hugseses. :D Good luck getting your list done.

    And belatedly, Pteryxx, your KEEP CALM bits had me laughing aloud.

    Colbert is doing a bit on how bad the levees are in the U.S. I can attest to that ’round here…a levee broke by a trailer park in our fire district and it is threatening to break further. I just hope more people decided to get out voluntarily once the rain started again last night. I think part of the reason it was hard to get people to understand that this is serious was that the sky was blue and the birds were singing.

  95. blf says

    I think part of the reason it was hard to get people to understand that this is serious was … the birds were singing.

    Not the mildly deranged penguin then. Her singing would deflect an incoming meteor, and has been blamed for the both the Big Bang and the Ganb Gib.

    (Doesn’t work against peas, however… Not sure about horses or celery.)

  96. rq says

    If the MDP cannot deflect peas or horses (or celery), then what is her use? Purely decorative?

    Hello, Portia!

  97. Portia, worn out says

    From the state bar association continuing legal education department:

    Sex: Just Don’t Do It!*

    This comprehensive overview explores the various sexual conducts that have been sanctioned by the ARDC and offers advice on how to avoid getting into a potentially dangerous situation. The presentation also includes a summary of the relevant rules in all other states, which is important for attorneys licensed outside of Illinois, as well as a discussion on sexual misconduct and harassment within the workplace.

    The title has me in juvenile giggles, and it sounds like a fundie sex ed plan. The end of the description, though, might be very, very useful for some people.

    (Usually sex and lawyers are discussed in the context of not taking sexual favors in lieu of fees. The title would hopefully be enough to cover that, it’s a pretty simple concept. Unfortunately, that’s not the case…)

  98. opposablethumbs says

    Hugs to JAL. I’m sorry if that kind of hit you hard :-(
    Hordely greetings to all. We don’t seem to have any rats at the moment, but we do have periodic mice. (old-ish building at the end of a row of same, sharing cavity walls with neighbours … I think they may be nomadic, or maybe migratory since we seem to meet them about once every couple of years or so. The mice, that is, not the neighbours. Nothing else, though, ‘cept the occasional spider and of course the kamikazi ladybirds. Aaaand … the bees moved away :-(
    Still, we have woodpeckers. They come to the birdfeeder most days. Maybe just as well that the 40-foot rat is hanging out with Spiney Norman in the East End; it might alarm them)

  99. says

    The Koch brothers are tenacious if nothing else. They were wrong about so many things during the 2012 election that the fuckton of money they spread around did not buy them much in the way of legislators, and it certainly didn’t buy the presidency for Mitt Romney. They had some success in ramping up hate, stupidity and anti-poor-people campaigns at the state level.

    The tenacious brothers are not giving up. They’ve got billions to spend and they are going to dig that hole deeper, and drag more Republicans down with them. Mother Jones has posted some exclusive reporting on the Koch brothers upcoming GOP Donor Retreat in Palm Springs, California. It’s by invitation only, so you can’t go.

    … the Kochs will unveil a new plan to recruit and train political candidates who will advance their free-market worldview….

    The Kochs and their acolytes believe it is their duty to stop what Charles Koch calls “the greatest assault on American freedom and prosperity in our lifetimes.”…

    … the Kochs want to develop their own recruiting and training operation for potential political candidates….

    My bet is that the Koch brothers think they can find mythical conservative candidates that will keep government regulation out of their extractive industries but who will also not say things like, “legitimate rape.”

    Sorry, Koch brothers, but it’s a package deal with conservatives. Denying climate change science comes with a side order of anti-woman, anti-education, and racist policies. Not to mention the failed, debunked and piss poor economic policies you would like to promote.

    Soon we’ll know who fed at the Koch’s table. The invitation list is secret, of course, but the conservative think tank types, along with bought-and-paid-for academics and politicians will be seen in Palm Springs.

  100. says

    Ogvorbis @569:

    Oh, I love Toroweap. A volcano right on the rim of the canyon. With a lava waterfall right into the river. And whitewater. I’ve seen it from the rim and from the river…

    I am so jealous. I wish I could have seen it from the river.

    As far as the Havasupai Indian Reservation goes, I could see the potential for presenting excellent Native American history and culture as enrichment for one’s visit to Havasu Falls, but by the time I visited the place had been ruined. I’m glad you got to see it in its poor-but-not-debauched state. I didn’t mention in my comment @565 that the hiking trail into the area was strewn with trash. Mile after mile of trash. My brother and I climbed to a shelf in the sandstone walls of the canyon just to escape the trash.

    Repeat of link to photos:

  101. Portia, worn out says

    A usually-reasonable person on my fb friends list has gone ape shit over my posting an anti-racist article. She’s basically crying reverse racism. I was gently responding, but now a POC friend of mine has started responding even gentler, so I’m backing off and not talking over her. But the stupid coming out of the white friend’s keyboard is making me want to yell.

  102. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    Congrats to Cryp Dyke on finishing exams. Have a *beer*!

    *hugs* for Dalillama, and sympathy for your relationship woes.
    *moarhugs*. Yes, absolutely what you need in this time of stress is…illness, and more stress. What was that saying—“Them as has, gets”?

    Ogvorbis, your 553 was damned awesome!

    WMDKitty, I’m sorry about your Gracie-cat. Hope she recovers soon.

    Lynna, your brother’s pics are lovely.

    Tony: You are wrong. Nothing masks the blecchiness of peas! And you only ruin perfectly good potatoes and meatloaf by trying.

    *hugs* for Portia (the wilting, delicate flower). This would be the north-central Missouri contingent, yes?

    after cleaning my cookies

    Maybe it’s just proximity to Dalillama’s possible food poisoning, but I immediately cross-connected that with “tossing my cookies”.

    *hugs* and encouragement for rowanvt, and congrats on learning how to reliably pee your Parsnip.
    Kick back, get some rest. Hopefully next ‘week’ will be better.

    Now pretend you’ve fallen into the river with all your clothes on. :/

    Thank you, but no. I am not adding that to my menu of vortex-related nightmares!

    I hope the Chechnya/Czech non-identicalness is cleared up soon

    That is a slim and fragile hope, my friend! If the Austria/Australia mis-equation persists in spite of the fact that one of them is a predominately English-speaking country—and therefore, more easily identified with—I reckon the chances of uncoupling Chechnya and Czech to be as near zero as makes no difference at all.

    Oh, and for cicely: Happy St George’s Day! It has special significance for Horses.

    I for dragons, too, I daresay!

    I am gobsmacked at the thought of Palin calling Faux Nooz part of the “liberal media”.

    Eaten by the peas, horse, and celery whilst distracted trying to work out how to hug a forty-foot “aggressively affectionate” killer rat…

    Dunno about you, blf, but I’m going with, “by proxy”.

  103. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    *hugs* for JAL.

    I’m going to the dentist.

    Ah…hurray? And/or commiserations?

    Well,just when was the last time a hero / villain / character had a pee?

    rowanvt, come quick, and bring the cotton ball!!!

    If the MDP cannot deflect peas or horses (or celery), then what is her use? Purely decorative?

    Long-range cheese detection.
    Trans-light transportation to large cheese deposits.
    General cheese disposal.

  104. Portia, worn out says

    Yes, cicely, The Missouri Contingent.

    Forgot earlier that FossilFishy’s “about to pass my shalls” got a good guffaw out of me ^__^

  105. opposablethumbs says

    Portia, will your PoC friend like to have rearguard support?
    I confess I didn’t even watch the river black hole video (or I haven’t yet) – I think it will be fascinating but also terrifying.
    I have a younger-than-me friend who is being treated for cancer … and this evening I just heard that another much-younger-than-me friend has an as-yet-unidentified mass in her abdomen :-((((((( . I am selfish; I want my friends to be well and having a good time, and if I’m really honest I want that not solely for their benefit but also for mine. But mostly I just want them to be well.
    The coaltits, long-tailed tits and ordinary tits are not of one opinion as to whose birdfeeder it is. The robin knows it is his (I think it’s a male – or do both sexes have the red breast?). The woodpeckers trump everybody else.

  106. says

    Big *Hugs*; I’ll pour the last of the brandy into the USBs for you.

    That sounds like a good way to lay out what you’re doing. I’d have no problems with it. I don’t even mind cliffhangers ,of the right type. (“You!” Or “And then, with a burst of pain between her eyes, she lost consciousness” etc.)

    Depends. How many people am I allowed to bring with me? What’s the healthcare situation there like?

    I’ve seen potty breaks before here and there in books, although I can’t recall which ones offhand (Not GoT, I’ve never read any of those).

    Portia re:levees
    Argh. Part of disaster preparedness is education about when things are serious. This should probably be done by the same department responible for the levees. This explains why it hasn’t happened.
    re: clueless white people.
    IME, it’s like pulling teeth to have a reasonable conversation about race issues with most white people. It’s really fucking obnoxious, so it is. And that’s when my white ass is the one talking, too.

    Hopefully the kitty recovers swiftly and without incident.

    Thanks to cicely, Fossilfishy,rq, and anyone I missed thanking last night for the support as well. *hugs* to all.

  107. chigau (違う) says

    Dentistry went well.
    Got a filling for newly root canaled tooth (which will probably need a crown soon).
    And a cleaning. My fangs are sniny!

  108. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Not really ‘rupt, just not feeling up to Marjanovićing the thread.

    So… *hugs* all around

  109. Portia, worn out says

    Yay for sniny fangs :) I need a crown for a root canaled tooth myself. Not so fun. but I’m glad it went well :)

  110. Portia, worn out says

    That’s an excellent point about maintenance of the levees. Educating people about the various levels of danger should be part and parcel of the upkeep. As it was, people were like “Well that’s not very deep.” We couldn’t really get them to realize that if the levee broke further, their trailer might literally wash away with them in it, and that would be really bad.

    To the credit of the trailer park management, though, they had their own teams come in and take over from us once it was less emergency and more “watch that levee and see what happens”. They also bought a whole bunch of pizza to feed the three fire departments that had been on scene for six hours, so that was nice.

    As an aside, it was also nice to hang out with two other women firefighters on the scene, as they were there from another department. And a guy I’m acquainted with from a third department encouraged me “not to take shit” from the guys on my department. It made me feel good to at least know I’m not crazy in my perception.


    Yeah, white people, what’s up with them? : p

    I jumped in with a link to an anti-racism site run by PoC and told white friend they aren’t allowed to tell other people how to respond to their oppression. She said “ok” and flounced, I think. PoC friend went to college with me and joked about us being educated at the same place and time after we posted similar comments. I resisted jabbing that white friend and I did too, because we met in law school. Sigh.

  111. rq says

    You can bring as many people as you want, but the healthcare situation is so-so. More on the bad side of that, than anything especially brilliant. Mental illness especially has quite a bit of stigma attached to it (I don’t know if any more or any less than over there), and medications are expensive (disproportionately so, considering salaries – then again, English-teaching organizations usually have all kinds of funding and therefore better than average salaries).
    Also, while atheists are sort of meh, people have objections to a non cis/hetero/monogamous lifestyle. You could probably get away with it in the capital, as long as you don’t make any noise about it.

    Best wishes to your friends!! :( And *hugs* for you.

  112. Hekuni Cat, MQG says


    if I’m really honest I want that not solely for their benefit but also for mine. But mostly I just want them to be well.

    I think this is true for most people. I’m sorry about your friends. *hugs*

    chigau – Yay!

    beatrice – *returnhug*

  113. says

    Yay for dentistry.


    Mental illness especially has quite a bit of stigma attached to it (I don’t know if any more or any less than over there)

    It’s not the stigma so much, although that’s bad, as the simple lack of health care of any stripe for folks who haven’t got insurance through an employer.

    Mental illness especially has quite a bit of stigma attached to it (I don’t know if any more or any less than over there)

    medications are expensive

    I doubt it’s any worse there than here, honestly. Paying for meds out of pocket is absurdly pricy.

    people have objections to a non cis/hetero/monogamous lifestyle

    But we’re missing on all cylinders here, I’m afraid…

  114. rq says

    The way you talk about it, you make me wish I could be a firefighter, too. And yes, I know it’s hard work and probably stressful, but you seem to have a lot of passion for it, which, among many other things about you, is admirable.
    Alas, I only deal with people after they’ve died (which, really, isn’t all that bad most of the time, if you see what I mean) – or are, as it were, in absentia (because which self-respecting burglar wants to be around during the investigation of the evidence?), and the benefit to society I provide is comparatively small (you know, dealing with crime/tragedy after it has occurred).

    I wish I could give you a happy thought.
    *hugs* will do for now?

  115. rowanvt says

    Someone wanted Parsnip photos. So here we go. Boyfriend fed a kitten for the first time and did a champion job.


    Parsnip also got some good exercise time crawling around on his blanket. There’s debate over whether he’s going to end up a medium hair or a particularly fluffy short hair.


    (I’m hoping for a medium hair. And also hoping to get some more bottle-babies so that he doesn’t turn evil)


  116. rq says

    Ah well, it was worth the questions.
    Alternatively, there’s lots of relatively cheap and workable agricultural land out in the country-side, most with a (renovation-needy) house still standing, if you’re looking for the pastoral, away-from-everything, mostly-self-sustaining life-style. And interestingly enough, communities outside of the big cities are rather more accepting of individual quirks and non-standard relationships. *shrug* Eh well, escapism is escapism, I wish your real-life situation improves. *hugs*

  117. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    Hugs and Parsnip’s photos will do for now.
    The happy thought is something I’m in permanent search for. I need something to look forward to, to distract me from all that’s depressing me.

  118. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Ha, he looks like he’s enjoying the popsicle. Good taste.

    While we’re traveling to meet Alan Rickman together… in a time machine… to when he was fortyish? Yeah, that sounds good.
    But really, it would be cool to meet you. Other folk here too.

  119. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    Cute Parsnip pics!

    While we’re traveling to meet Alan Rickman together… in a time machine… to when he was fortyish? Yeah, that sounds good.

    *jumping up and down, frantically waving arm*
    Ooooh, ooooh! Me, too!

  120. rq says

    That is definitely the plan to be working on. Will Alan Rickman know we are coming? Or will this be an unexpected visit the fulfillment of his Destiny?
    I guess we can take cicely, too.

  121. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    I’m sure the three of us would be a lovely surprise for Alan.

  122. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Parsnip is so cute. (I know the comments on this particular point are repetitive.) :D

  123. rowanvt says

    Not as repetitive as when I’m feeding him. “You are so darned cute! Stay this cute! Cute cute cute!” It’s rather nice to see other people afflicted by it. :P

  124. Portia, worn out says

    I’ll add to the consensus that Parsnip is CUTE. :)

    thanks for your kind words, they really give me a boost. There are times when I wonder “Why am I doing this?” Usually when it comes to dealing with sexist jackwads or general “I’m such a fuckup” feelings. But then I remember that it’s because I like doing it : )

    And I think your work is very important. I worked in prosecutor’s offices a lot during law school. They’d be pretty bad off without you!


  125. says

    The danger of relying on a single news source, especially if that news source is a hacked twitter feed:

    The official Associated Press feed on Twitter was hacked this afternoon, and those responsible started sending messages of news events that did not occur. For example, a little after 1 p.m. eastern, @AP “reported” that there were two explosions at the White House and President Obama had been hurt — though this did not happen.

    But for a minute or so, folks who rely solely on twitter for news didn’t know to ignore the AP’s feed, and thought an actual crisis was underway. For example, take a look at what happened on Wall Street. This chart shows today’s Dow Jones trading…[see link above for the chart, which is quite dramatic]

  126. opposablethumbs says

    Thank you, rq and Hekuni Cat!

    Nice one, Portia – and who knows, maybe the friend-who-flounced will think about what you both said some time. Kind of like when a bloke chimes in in support of women feminists, the other side has one less chance to dismiss it all as “over-emotional” or “overly invested”.
    Re Alan Rickman, can I come too? Pleeeeeeese, just for a visit? I’ll just hang out and listen to him talk for a while … ;-D

    rowanvt, I think it bears repeating – that Parsnip is So. Adorable. I may just have to go and pet the (quite large and almost elderly now) dog as a direct result of seeing those photos. (I think dog is cute, but we’re not really talking the same league here!)

  127. birgerjohansson says

    “Study pinpoints breast cancer relapse risk” http://www.thelocal.se/47508/20130423/
    — — — — — — — —
    Regarding bad levees…I just read The Tin Roof Blowdown by James Lee Burke, set in Louisiana during Katrina. Horrible, preventable disaster followed by corporate profiteering on an astronomical scale.
    — — — — — — — — —
    It is great you have worked out the problem with the kitten.
    — — — — — — — — —
    Speaking about worrying about disease; My 85-year-old mom has been short of breath and I followed her to a doctor today. The medication was adjusted, no urgent cause of concern was found.
    — — — — — — — — —
    “How can you ride a horse? Don’t their spines get in the way?”

    This reminds me: Another Garrett, P.I. novel is coming out this summer. He shares your view of horses.
    Also, a SF novel (“Grass”) by Sheri Tepper had MEAN horse analoges with sharp spiny things on their backs.

  128. Portia, worn out says

    Good point, opposablethumbs. Hopefully it has that effect. She all but hollered “REVERSE RACISM!!!11eleventy!” though. : |

  129. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says

    Sucks about re-sizing the exhibits, though.

    The exhibit hasn’t changed. We intentionally collected samples that were larger than needed so that they could be optimized for texture, colour, shape, and size. Sorry I wasn’t clear (though you should be used to that by now).

    Ogvorbis, your 553 was damned awesome!

    Thanks. But it was (as is normal) a misunderstanding on my part. Sorry.

  130. John Morales says


    Ogvorbis @684, I read that “sorry” is self-effacement, not an apology.


  131. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says


    I know. But when I feel like this, I feel like I can do no right so it seems like I should apologize for everything. On the plus side, at least I realize how down I feel.

  132. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    Re Alan Rickman, can I come too? Pleeeeeeese, just for a visit? I’ll just hang out and listen to him talk for a while … ;-D

    Oh, yes, indeed! I could listen to his voice all day long!

    The medication was adjusted, no urgent cause of concern was found.


    No apologies are necessary. You educated and entertained us, and that's not something that ever calls for an apology.

    Seconded! Motion carries!

  133. says

    Holy fucking shit. I wander over here because for once this month I have a minute and an attention span, and I find this perfectly cromulent essay about the Grand Canyon geology PLUS mindblowing photographic illustration of same.

    Make this week’s edits nonexsanguinating and the motherfucking mulberries stop blooming and I’ll be back in a trice. Though I do expect to spend part of this week admiring horses. Baby horses, even.

    Ask me about the chickens later.

  134. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    Baby Horses are cute—but it is an Evil cute, designed to ensnare.
    Be wary.

  135. says

    Hugs and/or chocolate for those that need it. I think I’ll partake of some of those myself.

    Yeah, for Ogvorbis’ #553 and photos supplied by Lynna.

    Nasty, going on 4-weeks, cough and shortness of breath turned out to be bronchitis tipping into pneumonia. Steroids and antibiotics, prescribed. Hopefully I soon won’t sound like a wheezing 8-pack-a-day 90yr old every time I walk up a flight of stairs.

    Boo, me for taking so long to actually see a professional. Boo, system for making it hard to see a doctor (yeah, I know my regular doctor moved over a town and I haven’t seen him in 19 months, but no, I don’t think treating me as a “new patient” and scheduling in the “first opening” of May 17th will work for me). Yeah, for the existence of Physician Assistants who are a bit more accessible than full doctors. Yeah, for PA’s that say “we should get an X-ray, just in case” and then call in the prescription when the results come back in hours instead of the “probably sometime tomorrow”.

    Rain, … again. Hmmm, I should check the back walk-down stairs to the basement; seems it might have caused a bit of leakage in the back corner last week, though the bulk of the basement was nice and dry. Walking the dog around the neighborhood the night before trash pickup … reminds me of our own disaster a few years ago. The [large investment] for reworking the house drainage last year seems to have paid off. Thursday, my workplace officially closed mid-day due to flooding in the area; coworkers were unable to get out of their neighborhoods; cooling/retention ponds which provide a habitat for heron and egrets had grown to engulf 2/3 of the parking lot.

    Bison, on the other hand, frolic (yes, they do) given the opportunity. Multi-ton beasts bounding through water “because they can”… cool

  136. says

    Gracie Update

    Baby girl is home with an embarrassing haircut, two lovely drains, and a little bit of her old attitude.

    She’s happy to be home — even greeted me at the door! — and she scarfed down her dinner, but she’s still very tired and her nose is still dry-ish.

    Anyway, we’re housebound until the drains are removed (5 days), and I suspect she’s going to be really unhappy about that once she starts really feeling better.

  137. rq says

    Good morning.
    I’m trying to figure out if I want to be an ass about that English test or not, in which case I’ll need some of youse help. Not a good way to start the morning.

    Yay for Gracie!

    Boo for the almost-pneumonia, but yay for getting help from competent professionals (and yay for the Bison!).

    Ron Sullivan
    Please bring back photos of some baby horses. And chickens, too, if you must, but the Baby Horses for sure!

  138. chigau (違う) says

    Rather than try to catch-up on all my bookmarks, I think I’ll just go to bed.
    *hugs* and *rum* all around

  139. opposablethumbs says

    Thirding the motion in re Ogvorbis. You are good people, and interesting and informative to boot, and your name on the page always means it’s something I want to read. Don’t listen to those self-undermining impulses, ’cause they lie like a rug. Or even like a lying thing.

  140. Portia, worn out says

    Glad Gracie is on the mend.

    dontpanic: good to see you! Re: water in excess…fingers crossed that Wisconsin/Minnesota areas don’t have a fast thaw or all that snow will spell bad news for flood levels.

    Yay/boo for medical services, and hope you feel better soon.

    I should not still be awake. Worth it to watch a funny movie with Califriend. (Check out Iron Sky on Netflix if you like intentionally campy parodies and great cinematography.)

  141. rq says

    Today’s afternoon break brought to you by: a stack of cheese sandwiches and Firefly.

  142. blf says

    I am gobsmacked at the thought of Palin calling Faux Nooz part of the “liberal media”.

    What amusing entertainment did I miss now?


    Another Garrett, P.I. novel is coming out this summer.

    Fantastic! I’m only two or three behind as it is…


    [T]his is one of the quietest days in the Lounge in my experience.

    I’ll see if I can find the mildy deranged penguin. Her noise-making equipment starts at 11. She considers Disaster Area to be a quiet band.

  143. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says

    Good morning.


    I need to apologize (and yes, John, this is an actual apology!). I spent some time last night, while watching hockey, reading over what I have contributed in the last six months or so on Pharyngula and holy shit! I’m sorry. Seems like every damn time I show up its to complain. Y’all’ve been real understanding but you really don’t need that. So I’m sorry I have been narcissistic, whiny, self-centered, and selfish. If I catch myself doing it again, I will recuse myself.

  144. blf says

    Nigel Farage admits enjoying lap-dance club but denies being ‘anti-women’: “Ukip leader is drawn into row as it emerges party candidate owns lap-dancing club in Midlands”. The UKIP is a British anti-reality party (especially anti-immigrants, anti-“Europe” (meaning the EU), et al.), with Monckton as(? was?) their shadow Science Minster.

    The UK Independence party leader, Nigel Farage, has denied that his comments about enjoying a visit to a lap-dancing club make him anti-women.

    Farage’s views have come under the spotlight after it emerged that a Ukip candidate owns a lap-dancing club in the Midlands called Urban Tiger. In February, he was accused by the then Ukip MEP Marta Andreasen of being “anti-women”.

    [Farage] said it was nonsense that he had frequented and enjoyed lap-dancing clubs in the past but admitted going to one once unintentionally.

    … he said. “I have to tell you, if I’d been anti-women, then the whole of my adult life would have been just that much simpler.”

    [In 2009 he said] he had been to “lap-dancing clubs” in the plural, boasting that other leaders would not admit to it because “they’re living in this PC world and nobody must admit to being human”. The issue reemerged when he told reporters … he went to a lap-dancing club in Strasbourg “and thought bloody hell, this is really good”. …

  145. dianne says

    Wow, this is one of the quietest days in the Lounge in my experience.

    Xie said, just before the mildly deranged penguin burst in riding a cheese dragon and backed by an army of supermutant alien squid.

  146. rq says

    Should have gone with, “It’s quiet. Too quiet.”

    *hugs* if you want them!!

    He’s not anti-women. He loves women! Especially naked ones in his lap! The ones comfortable with their own sexuality! That’s not anti-woman, is it? Is it?

  147. blf says

    And now for some Good News, France approves same-sex marriage: “Passing of law allowing gay couples to marry and adopt children comes after heated debate in parliament and weeks of protest”. Much of the protesting was organized by the Raping Children Cult, and so was the expected:

    One rightwing MP warned the government was “killing children” by allowing same-sex married couples to adopt and one senator warned gay marriage would open the way to people being able to marry animals or objects. MPs in favour of the bill received death threats, skinheads attacked a gay bar in Lille, and gay rights groups reported a rise in homophobic attacks.

    (The mildly deranged penguin does like the idea of marrying some cheeses, but wonders if its legal to eat your partners…)

    There are still some issues, such as “[the bill does] not grant automatic co-parenting rights for same-sex couples in civil partnerships, …”, but there may be another new law later this(?) year to clean-up these loose ends (albeit Teh Geyphobes already seem to be planning protests).

  148. Louis says

    From the Steubenville thread, a tale of corruption, deviancy and Norty. AKA Pretty standard Louis behaviour:

    Rich Wood, #56 in the Steubenville thread and Thumper1990, #60 in the same thread,

    Okay, since this is irrelevant to the nasty shite in that thread, and much more relevant to Things Louis Did So That Others May Learn Not To Do Them (Official Story) And Sundry Frivolity, here it is:

    1) Take several Y chromosome impaired manchildren/morons. (I.e. some of my friends and I aged mid twenties and for some reason inspired by some chemistry I was working on….don’t ask)

    2) Take a couple of bottles of reasonable, high strength vodka (50% alcohol plus), some cannabis resin, some magic mushrooms and apply to the aforementioned morons.

    3) Have the idea that this stuff would be really, really good in combination.

    4) Take one blender, one bottle of said vodka, about an ounce of the resin and a few grams of mushrooms. History has no record of the precise quantity of mushroom. The general consensus post fact has been “lots”.

    5) Mix the above ingredients in the blender, turn the blender on AFTER replacing the lid. Important tip that. Licking vodka flavoured pastes of various sloppinesses off of kitchen surfaces is not as much fun as it sounds.

    6) Blend.

    7) Remove from blender, place in saucepan, heat over the lowest heat for half an hour until mixture is warm but not simmering. This probably does nothing of significance, it seemed meaningful at the time. (Anything dissolved due to temp effects may well just precipitate straight back out of solution, if we’re above the point of saturation, which technically we’re not, but hey, this wasn’t Science, this was Idiocy. Fun, but Norty)

    8) Decant into vodka bottle using a funnel like a proper chemist. (I R PROFESHNIAL)

    9) Wrap bottle in tinfoil and keep in the interfloor insulation under The Special Secret Floorboard. (No photochemistry please, we’re British)

    10) Forget you did this. Seriously, we forgot. This was meant to be for the millennium New Year and we only remember a few years back when my friend moved house and “hey whatever happened to that hash vodka?” came up. It brewed/aged for ~6 years in the dark. I inherited it.



    P.S. This stuff was not to be trifled with. We exposed it, lo those many years later, filtered out the sediment (we kept that, we’re not daft, goes well in cookies. Allegedly.) and then had one brave soul try one shot. On pronouncing it good, we all had a shot. In retrospect we should have waited the ~30 mins it took for him to go white and feel nauseous. No people were happy that day. Many people were sick as pigs.

    P.P.S. Thumper, The “list” is an exaggeration For Comedy Purposes, obviously! If I’d consumed all that in a sitting I’d be dead. A lot of those things are not….hmmm how shall put this….pharmacologically friendly when consumed in unison. The legal items (UK legal obviously) like the booze and the (illegal) Special Vodka are in my possession. But I R Responsible (ish) Grown Up now. Naturally it’s one small sherry before bedtime at most. I take tea, obviously, and just occasionally coffee. I don’t consort with whores, lowlifes, criminals, drug users and many other of my friends. That’s right out. I was never there, I saw nothing, you can’t prove I did so there. I am innocent. Ish. Maybe. Sort of. With a bit of wind assistance and mojo.

  149. blf says

    “Xie said, just before the mildly deranged penguin burst in riding a cheese dragon and backed by an army of supermutant alien squid” chasing a herd of celery-riding peas wielding horses.

  150. Louis says

    Oh and since resin is hard to come by now, no attempts have been made to make an (almost) emulsion using cannabis oil made from plant matter and combining it with the vodka. That’s right out and I want to deny that utterly. No one has tasted it and found it to be a far superior method and (quantity adjusted) safer item at all.

    As long as we are all clear on that. A nod’s as good as a wink to a blind bat.


  151. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says

    (The mildly deranged penguin does like the idea of marrying some cheeses, but wonders if its legal to eat your partners…)

    Well, Wife and I, er, um. Nevermind.

  152. Ogvorbis, broken failure. says


    How would the MDP respond to this. Pea salad with cheese. Sounds delish to me.

  153. blf says

    How would the MDP respond to this. Pea salad with cheese.

    I suspect she’d suggest it could be improved by making it a split-pea and horse-meat soup, with cheese topping, hold the split-peas and horse-meat.

    I also note it has celery, besides obviously nowheres near enough cheese and no bacon at all, so further adjustments are necessary.

  154. UnknownEric the Apostate says

    I spent some time last night, while watching hockey

    I, too, watched hockey while reading FTB last night. (Capitals vs. Jets)

  155. blf says

    I am gobsmacked at the thought of Palin calling Faux Nooz part of the “liberal media”.

    What amusing entertainment did I miss now?

    Ah, found it: Sarah Palin to Join Al Jazeera as Host:

    “As you all know, I’m not a big fan of newspapers, journalists, news anchors and the liberal media in general,” Palin said. “But I met with the folks at Al-JaJizzraa (sic) and they told me they reach millions of devoutly religious people who don’t watch CBS or CNN. That tells me they don’t have a liberal bias.”

    (Actually, breaks out laughing, surprising some not-very-ninja celery stalkers…)

  156. thunk, 839.5-potrzebie zucchini says

    hia all.

    I am assaulted by my bread smelling like garlic. That is intolerable. Thank FSM were’re not within the range of pea artillery.

  157. blf says

    I am assaulted by my bread smelling like garlic.

    I first read that as beard
    … suggesting some arm-hand-mouth co-ordination training might be a good idea. Basically, the idea is the garlic, with or without bread, goes in a convenient mouth (usually, yours). Not in the beard, ear, or potted cheese plant, even if it’s yours.

  158. Portia, worn out says

    Morning Lounge!

    Hiya thunk!

    Garlic bread sounds tasty…

    Louis…my stomach churns just reading your comments. Except for the bit about tea. I think I’ll have some of that.

    It is FINALLY sunny around here. Not as warm as it looks out there but still. I’ll take it.

  159. blf says

    It is FINALLY sunny around here.

    Apologies! Normal service will be restored soon. Would you prefer rain, snow, sleet, hail, or some combination thereof, and of Dihydrogen Monooxide, Methane, Carbon Dioxide, or Nitrogen? Or just a plain and simple Heat Death of the Universe? There’s a special on this week…

  160. carlie says

    Auntie Ron! So good to see you!!!

    dontpanic – good on you going to the doctor. I had the same thing, but I did not. It was stupid.

    . I am innocent. Ish.

    About the hash…ish? ;)

    Today is field day! I get to take the frosh bio majors outside and talk about the world, and it’s actually decent weather for a change and there are a few things out. Skunk cabbage ahoy!

  161. Portia, worn out says

    Do not want! Please nooooooo.

    Have fun outside :)

    Friend seems to be doing better lately. Paramedic friend says he would have to take more pills than he has in this little bottle on my shelf in order to hurt himself, but mixing them with alcohol is Bad News. Friend has asked for the meds back. WutdoIdo.

  162. Louis says


    Is that a good thing?

    If it helps your dyspepsia I can promise no more posts on Recreational Substance based idiocy for at least another six, seven minutes.


  163. blf says

    it’s actually decent weather for a change

    Sorry, sorry, SORRY!! We’re working on it! Promise. Give us a chance. Geesh

    Might take awhile, though. The Nitrogen slush generator just when FOOM! BARRRGH!! Gurgl–pip! and shut down again. I think a grasshopper got into the filters. Again. The technicians are looking for an Allen Wrench right now to check. Stay tuned……

  164. thunk, 839.5-potrzebie zucchini says

    no. I HATE SPICES. On anything. Ever. Too many clashing tastes.

    Especially when it’s all-pervasive. Perfectly good bread ruined by spicy clashy shit. So annoying. Why doesn’t everybody eat everything plain?

  165. says

    Ogvorbis, re: If I catch myself doing it again, I will recuse myself.. No!, better a “narcissistic, whiny, self-centered, and selfish” (to the extent that any of those are a fair descriptor, which they are definitely not) Ogvorbis, than no Ogvorbis at all.

    blf, how’s the red giant with a side of Earth engulfment today? If its fresh, I’ll take one of those.

  166. thunk, 839.5-potrzebie zucchini says

    blf: Can I have several more inches of precipitation in the Illinois river basin? I feel like playing with distressful hydrology.

  167. rq says

    Ah! Speaking of strangeness. I wanted to tell y’all about my dream last night.
    PZ was moving to Boston, to join the (totally architecturally awesome) university there, and I, with a small child in tow, followed him for a job opening. Alas, another young woman had also applied, and although I was better qualified, PZ was going to give me menial tasks (such as mopping floors) because I had a small child, and this somehow made me ineligible for the actual science work. I complained, however, explaining that I’d put a whole lot of effort in following him across the country with a small child and that I was determined to get the position, and in the end, I got the actual science job.
    Getting to PZ’s office at the university was interesting; each faculty was subdivided into things like dry-land anemones and underwater anemones, and PZ ended up being among the dry-land coral (don’t ask). I had to walk through a weird blue-painted room (to look like it was under water) where two guys were talking about how species from water worlds would have it twice as hard to get into space – first, they’d need the technology to get to the surface of the world, and then they’d need to develop technology to get out into space. So, they’d need twice as long. That was just sort of an aside in the larger scheme of walking along highways and overpasses at night with a small child to get a science job in PZ’s lab. You know, routine.

  168. Portia, worn out says

    Ogvorbis, re: If I catch myself doing it again, I will recuse myself.. No!, better a “narcissistic, whiny, self-centered, and selfish” (to the extent that any of those are a fair descriptor, which they are definitely not) Ogvorbis, than no Ogvorbis at all.

    Heartily seconded.

    thunk, now don’t you go causing trouble, y’hear? We don’t need any more water in Illinois! There’s already enough poised to flow downriver when it melts up north.

    I’ve tried eating things plain, but…I hate it.

    Louis, well six or seven minutes is really all I can expect ;)

    rq, That’s definitely an interesting dream. Now, and a Classic Woman™, you must stereotypically and irrationally hold PZ responsible for his dream-self’s jerk behavior. Because we live in a sexist sit come schtick!

  169. thunk, 839.5-potrzebie zucchini says

    At least yours actually make sense. Mine tend to involve, for instance, taking extremely thin sheets of gold bullion to people from the American Revolution, and bending them. And failing to unbend them. Or are crossover fanfic, basically.

    Recently I’ve been half-heartedly lucid dreaming. While snoozing, a sub-optimal outcome sometimes occurs. Then, I wake up, go “No, that went wrong. Let’s try that again.” And carry on with my dream, doing it the right way.

  170. Portia, worn out says

    Louis, well six or seven minutes is really all I can expect ;)

    Whoa that joke looks like a joke that was not the joke I intended to make.

  171. blf says

    Can I have several more inches of precipitation in the Illinois river basin?

    Just rang the centre for that area. How about an Ice Age? They’ve got a brand-new glaciersicle-maker they’re just itching to try out.

    [H]ow’s the red giant with a side of Earth engulfment today?

    (Checks.) Hum… Drat! Sorry, some celery got into the database again. All I’m showing is a Dyson Pyramid made from giant celeries. (It should be a Dyson Sphere, but celeries aren’t very good at geometry.)

  172. says

    thunk, re: Can I have several more inches of precipitation in the Illinois river basin? Hrumph! Do you actually live in the area? Or do you just hate those of us that do? I live up out of the river valley, but ah, I wouldn’t wish more flooding on those that don’t.

    WTF. Checked NWS site: A 40 percent chance of snow showers, mainly between 1am and 4am. Seriously!?! It was 70F a week ago. Le sigh.

  173. thunk, 839.5-potrzebie zucchini says

    dontpanic: Yes, I do. I’m also extremely cruel. But only jokingly.

  174. blf says

    A 40 percent chance of snow showers…

    A believe they are still learning how to operate the glaciersicle-maker. Not really my area of expertise, but I’m under the impression that once it is cranking away, the temperature and pea forecasts will have a downwards curve. Until then, there may be possible invasions of horses.

  175. carlie says

    thunk, you can move in with my parents. Garlic salt and the occasional dried parsley flakes are the only seasonings my mother uses. I didn’t even learn what onions were all about until after I’d moved out.

  176. Portia, worn out says

    I’m enjoying the commiseration about the weather in northern Illinois : )

  177. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I need to apologize (and yes, John, this is an actual apology!). I spent some time last night, while watching hockey, reading over what I have contributed in the last six months or so on Pharyngula and holy shit! I’m sorry. Seems like every damn time I show up its to complain. Y’all’ve been real understanding but you really don’t need that. So I’m sorry I have been narcissistic, whiny, self-centered, and selfish. If I catch myself doing it again, I will recuse myself.

    *bangs head against wall*

    Frankly, the self-recrimination is the only thing that ever strikes me as fitting this description. >.>

  178. opposablethumbs says

    Ogvorbis. The self-undermining impulses? They’re lying. You most certainly have not been any of those things; there will be no recusing, dammit; tell any thoughts that say you have (been any of those things) to get stuffed, and pull up another chair.

  179. Portia, worn out says

    I know the point of this is Bill’s Nye point, and it’s great. But I feel like Dawkins’ expression and body language are just perfect, in context.

  180. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    When you feel like complaining, complain. I don’t mind, you’ve read others saying they don’t mind either.

    Besides, we all do it. We complain and comfort each other. You deserve to have that as much as anyone else, and no one is going to measure how much “complaining time” you’re allowed.

  181. says

    Mormons are using Facebook to scam the public:

    65,634 current full time missionaries
    20,000 have received their calls
    6,000 currently in the interview process
    58 new missions created to accommodate the increase in missionaries

    “To help maintain the missionary force and because many of our missionaries come from modest circumstances, we invite you, as you are able, to contribute generously to the General Missionary Fund of the church.” Thomas S. Monson

    “Donate online at https://secure3.convio.net/ldsp/site/Donation2?df_id=1651&1651.donation=form1&mboxSession=1366406609407-555616

    Same thing on Pinterest I’m told, though I haven’t seen it.

  182. thunk, 839.5-potrzebie zucchini says

    complaining is wholesome. We all need to vent sometimes.

    Speaking of which, I’m pretty sure my subconscious hates me now. It’s also becoming increasingly apparent conscious and subconscious mind have different genders. Much of the anxiety recently has been spent in trying to reconcile the unreconcilable, and it’s prolly a good idea to not reconcile it, and just get on with life.

  183. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    dontpanic, I hope you’re over the Plague soon. 19 months??? Outrageous!
    “Frolicking bison” isn’t a phrase you see very often.

    WMDKitty: Glad to hear that Gracie is doing better.

    Ogvorbis: You are going through some heavy, heavy stuff. There’s no need for you to go it alone, when we can help—even if it’s just by lending an ear and smothering you with *hugs* and reminding you that Depression Lies. “Quiet Desperation” is not the answer.
    Lean on me
    When you’re not stro-o-ong,
    And I’ll be your friend,
    I’ll help you carry on.
    It won’t be long
    ‘Til I’m gonna need
    To lee-ean on.


    He’s not anti-women. He loves women! Especially naked ones in his lap! The ones comfortable with their own sexuality!

    Provided that they’re comfortable with putting their naked sexuality in his lap.

    Pea salad with cheese.

    An Anathematisable Offense, and an Abomination Unto Nuggan.

    I am gobsmacked at the thought of Palin calling Faux Nooz part of the “liberal media”.

    What amusing entertainment did I miss now?

    It was from this one here, from rq’s 609, above; the quotable bit is:
    “In a statement released after the interview, Palin attacked Fox News and its “pro-Islamic” and “pro-geography” bias.
    “This is just another case of the politically correct liberal media refusing to tell the truth about radical Islam,” she said.”

    Portia: I’m glad that Friend seems to be doing better—and I have no idea what you should do about the meds.

  184. says

    Cross-posting this from the “How do we reduce crime” thread because Glenn Beck is a mormon, which makes this evidence of a Moment of Mormon Madness gone viral.

    PZ’s post is titled “How do we reduce crime?” One way to reduce crime would be to elect representatives that are smart enough to pass laws that will reduce crime. All too often, Republican state lawmakers do not fit into this category. Stella Tremblay, a New Hampshire legislator is one example:

    Huff Po link.

    State Rep. Stella Tremblay (R-Auburn) posted on conservative talk show host Glenn Beck’s Facebook page Friday that the attack and the subsequent search for suspects was playing out how Beck had suggested. She said the bombings were a plot by the federal government, and included a link to a video from another conservative talk show host Alex Jones, in which Jones also claims the federal government planned the bombing. Tremblay’s message to Beck was posted Friday morning, before suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was arrested.

    Daily Kos link.

    Tremblay is making wild claims that the United States government is the entity responsible for the bombings at the Boston Marathon. Seriously. We’ve heard/seen it from the Infowars nuts, and now it turns out that one of those Infowars nuts is representing constituents in the state government of New Hampshire. Jesus.

    Tremblay flashed her conspiracy theorist creds on Glenn Beck’s Facebook page, appropriately. Take a gander at what she had to say. She even cited Infowars:

    Just as you said would happen. Top Down, Bottom UP. The Boston Marathon was a Black Ops “terrorist” attack. One suspect killed, the other one will be too before they even have a chance to speak. Drones and now “terrorist” attacks by our own Government. Sad day, but a “wake up” to all of us. First there was a “suspect” then there wasnt. Infowars broke the story and they knew they had been “found out”.

    Maddow Blog link.
    …Tremblay is also a birther who recently argued that former President Woodrow Wilson agreed with Adolf Hitler, despite the fact that Wilson died before Hitler rose to power. One of Tremblay’s aides believes the U.S. government is under the control of Queen Elizabeth II.

    Pressed for an explanation by a local news outlet, the New Hampshire Republican said she had suspicions of some kind of plot involving Secretary of State John Kerry, Saudi nationals, and “black ops” soldiers.

    Say hello to the Glenn Beck wing of the Republican Party.

    …before you dismiss this as the strange rants of a crazed and largely unknown state lawmaker, let’s not overlook the fact that last week, Beck used his Internet show to push a bogus claim about a Boston suspect, but his arguments quickly drew attention from the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, the chairman of the House subcommittee on Oversight and Management Efficiency, the chairman of the House subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence, and the chairwoman of the House subcommittee on Border and Maritime Security — all of whom are Republicans, and all of whom took Beck’s nonsense seriously.

    There’s a strain of madness running through contemporary Republican politics, and it runs deeper than just some random state lawmaker in New Hampshire.

  185. Gregory Greenwood says

    Do you remember that disgustingly misogynistic bust of a dismembered bikini-clad woman’s torso that was created to promote the Dead Island: Riptide game that caused controversy a few months ago? Do you remember the insincere not-pology from the creators, the developer Deep Silver?

    Well, in a turn of events that will surpise absolutely no one, it seems that the developer has learned nothing whatsoever, and is going ahead with the sale of that sexist abomination as if nothing happened.

    …Aaannnd yet another day comes when I am ashamed to call myself a gamer.

  186. Portia, worn out says

    Thanks for the support, cicely. I spoke to Paramedic Friend who is involved already with the situation and thanked me for being involved when I saw him last night. He says it’s best to give them back because he doesn’t really have enough to hurt himself with (absent alcohol combo, which isn’t absent all the time, but I guess that’s not my responsbility). Also PF pointed out that sleeplessness can exacerbate negative effects of depression. Friend says he doesn’t need them, just wants to get ’em back before he forgets. So. Verdict is they are going back to him. I think enough people are aware of the problem at this point that he should be monitored pretty closely.

  187. The Mellow Monkey says

    thunk, just getting on with life can be really valuable. I’ve known several people who are outside the gender binary who really, really struggle with it. One in particular changes pronouns and name every few weeks, going from man to woman to more shades of genderqueer and androgyne and bi-gendered than you’d imagine exist. It all comes from this place of desperately trying to discover some internal truth, of knowing what their REAL TRUE GENDER is underneath it all.

    The other day I was having a conversation with my best friend about a blog post Natalie Reed wrote about choosing to be trans* and “born this way” and all of that. My friend (who is cis and bisexual) was really offended by it, because she feels like the whole choice concept has been thrown in her face repeatedly over the years and that, for her, things not being a choice really, really matters, and just the acknowledgment that something could be a choice was delegitimizing her experience. So when I told her that I choose my gender every day, she was kind of blown away and baffled by it. She had come to the impression that I was woman identified. This has, frustratingly, been what almost everyone who knows me has assumed since my partner began his transition. I’m in a relationship with a man, I have a vagina, and even if I use gender neutral pronouns I’m not correcting people who don’t, so I must be a woman, right? Never mind the fact that I don’t present that way.

    But my choice–and, for me, it is one–came from the realization that there was no REAL TRUE GENDER under it all. There’s what makes me happy moment by moment. That’s really hard, because most people aren’t going to understand that I can talk about how reproductive rights affect my body and when my period is due and be comfortable with all of that while also feeling 100% masculine in that moment. (Well, 90%. I never feel 100% anything.) If I try to explain it to people, I get a whole lot of cis people saying, “Oh, but I don’t really feel defined by my gender either!” Which…isn’t really what I’m talking about, and it’s usually insulting to have my experience and identity reduced that way.

    Whatever works for you, whatever you feel and however you identify, is your own truth. If you’re not binary, you may never find some great, cosmic, unchanging truth within yourself and that’s OK. You might be bits and pieces. You might flow. You might feel outside of it all entirely. That is all OK. If that’s where you end up, it will be difficult because other people have a hard time understanding. I’m not going to lie about how hard that can be, but you can make it infinitely easier on yourself by giving permission to just be who you are, even if that isn’t static or 100% of any one identity.

  188. opposablethumbs says

    Portia, you’re an exceptionally good friend.When so many fucked-up people spend their lives hurting others, it’s people like you and the Horde that make a person want not to leave for Mars after all.

  189. rq says

    … Or maybe the Commune should be located on Mars. They’re looking for volunteers, I heard.

  190. Louis says

    I am not Canadian. Whilst they’re a nice bunch, let’s be clear, they’re still not as good as being English.



  191. rq says

    Oh, Louis, of course Canadians are better than the English, you’re so kind to note that! ;)

    Hey, Beatrice, I hear Latvia is planning on opening up the job market to Croatians in the summer. After Croatia is accepted into the EU, of course.

  192. Portia, worn out says


    I wish there was an emoticon that would do justice to the grin on my face!!! I’m so honored and tickled and can’t wait to read it.

  193. Portia, worn out says

    Mormonfriend just posted on fb about new missionaries coming to their ward soon. I’m all squicked out.

  194. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    I was always a sucker for ghost stories. Yay the latest Doctor ep! (watching now)

  195. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    rq, that is a hell of a long way to go for a sandwich!

  196. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    And I don’t envy them the clean up, either.

  197. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    *knock knock*
    anyone here?

    Oh well, good night then. I should really go to bed anyway.

  198. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Not totally threadrupt (I actually read everything I can, I’m just usually late).

    I love celery, but then I also love peas. I make killer pea soup. (Soups are my specialty. I cannot bake at all.)

    I think I should put a trigger warning here for domestic violence (regarding my triggers about it):

    My gf is a very sociable human and I’m very happy being alone which is generally a good thing. She has a very busy business and works 12-14 hours a day. She also has a very popular blog and new people come to visit us (or we visit them) all over the world. Right now we have a very lovely couple from Tel Aviv staying with us and I have no complaints except, WOW, Sasha (the husband) is very, very loud and he listens to the TV very, very loud. Perhaps he’s hard of hearing but there’s a certain loudness that makes me want to punch people. I can’t even be nice when things are this loud.

    I have, in the past, questioned “triggers” and often wondered how so many people could be triggered by things when my youth was pretty much a nightmare. You just deal with it, though, right? But then, duh, I know (and I’m reminded) that loud noises are a huge trigger for me. They make me lose all semblance of dealing and leave the room. Not loud music, but loud voices. It sounds like escalation to me, which sounds like impending violence.

    My gf knows this so she made an excuse for me. I love being understood.

  199. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Also, I’m kind of all alone in Russia. Well, I adore my students and I have a lot of them and I’m very busy from 9 to 9, M-F, but I have no fellow Americans to talk to here. The only Americans I’ve met in Russia (still! After nearly 4 years) are Mormon missionaries. (This is in Saint Pete. I might have better luck in Moscow but I dislike Moscow.) I went to join an ex-pat group to shoot the shit about stuff but it turned out to be Mormons. Again. They’re so sneaky about it, too.

    “Can you help me with my Russian homework?” And it’s bits of the Book of Mormon, which I know.

    I have real life friends in America but right now my best friend is threatening suicide and my next best friends are marvelous but don’t really get what it’s like to live in a different country all day every day. It can be isolating. Thank gourd for Minecraft, is all I have to say.

  200. Krasnaya Koshka says

    I have met one Australian here but she was so freaky* (and a fellow teacher at my school, whose students I generally pick up) that holding a conversation with her was trying.

    *My friends, I am covered with tattoos and have had many piercings and different colored hair so perhaps “freak” is not what I mean. I mean, she would begin a conversation and then when I tried to reply she’d note the dust motes whirling around our heads and then abruptly change subject to the proper way to cook lamb. I could not keep up. So maybe she’s just faster thinking than I am.

    I have met one British man but he’s only interested in putting me down (I’m American and am responsible for all Americans, apparently).

    Anyway, my point was YOU make me feel at home. Without Pharyngula I think I would wither but with you I prosper. Mentally and emotionally, which is most important.

  201. Parrowing says

    Krasnaya Koshka:

    I’m in a similar boat, feeling isolated in a country I’m not used to. I also get through it (sometimes) with Pharyngula and Minecraft. I’ve never played multi-player before but would you ever be interested in doing that some time?

  202. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Parrowing: YES! Come join. I have a server in Sweden and would be happy to have you join. (I’d read your questioning about Let’s Plays before and was being stupidly shy. I hate that about myself.) There are only two other players and we’ve already beaten the dragon but the world is huge and I want as many friends as possible in it. (Plus, I have another server if you want to only play with me.) Email me at Krasniikot at hotmail.com

    That’ll forward you to me. :)

  203. carlie says

    If you have Netflix, Paranorman is on it now. It was a pretty great movie – worth watching even if you don’t usually do “kids'” movies.

  204. cicely (Were-dolphins are TOTALLY a Thing!) says

    Krasnaya Koshka:

    I make killer pea soup.

    I was unaware that there was any other kind.
    I’m sorry to hear about your friend, and that there’s no community for you to hang with. *hugs*