1. says

    i think i need to stop treating what are ultimately mind-altering substances merely as tasty beverages. tea -> beer -> coffee -> tea is probably not a very smart sequence of beverages in a single evening

  2. Owlmirror says

    @David Marjanović:

    A new Early Cretaceous eutherian mammal from the Sasayama Group, Hyogo, Japan.
    Proceedings of the Royal Society B 280 (1759): 20130142
    We here describe a new Early Cretaceous (early Albian) eutherian mammal, Sasayamamylos kawaii

    Too bad it’s behind a paywall, so I can’t find out right now if the name means what I think it means.

    *use 1337 skillz*

    (a) Etymology
    Sasayama, after the Sasayama Group, from which the present materials were collected, and also after Sasayama City, where the fossil locality is situated; mylos (Greek), meaning ‘mill’, referring to the tribosphenic molars with fully developed talonids; kawaii, in honour of Dr Masao Kawai, a primatologist born in Sasayama City who explored the origins and evolution of humans through ecological studies of primates.

    I will bet a cookie that, despite (or in addition to) the above, the authors are nevertheless being cute.

  3. rq says


    Thanks, Canadians random Canadian.

    Thank you, Morning Shower, for waking my brain.

  4. dongiovanni says

    @ Delflt: Transgressing the Boundaries was a classic. It turns out that Latour himself now laments the ammunition that he gave to the right wing in America.

    Also, the manure has hit the air circulator. Someone from my faculty has invited “Lord” Christopher Monckton to speak at my University. Great is the shame that will accrue if he is allowed to spread his lies unchallenged. what would an appropriate response be?

  5. says

    what would an appropriate response be?

    if you can’t manage to disinvite that crank, get a bunch of people to quitetly show up to the lecture holding signs or wearing shirts with real news heazdlines like the one about australia having to add a new color to their heat maps. also, hockeystick t-shirts.

  6. dongiovanni says

    [Citation needed]?

    Also, sorry for being so self – obsessed.

    Tea -> Beer -> Coffee -> Tea doesn’t seem too bad. Then again, I’m not exactly a paragon of healthy lifestyle.

  7. says

    The first thought I had when I read your comment “people are nice, but I do not feel comfortable”) was
    “Are we (generalized here, obviously not everone is onboard;just needed the shorthand) doing something wrong? I may be too much of a fixture here to look around and analyze any problems. My second rhought:
    “What can be done here so that YOU, Jafafa Hots, is able to feel comfortable?”

    You obviously need not answer if you desire, but the events in the Lounge yesterday were on my mind for much of today. I feeled compelled to do my part to make sure people are welcomed here.

  8. says


    I am glad to see you posted once more (just finished your #405). I do not want to continue this in The Lounge, but a thought just occured to me*: if you are feeling down, happy, despondent, frustated, lonely, anxious or any other emotion and you want someone to talk to, please do not hesitate to email me.

    I work odd hours as a bartender, so my responses may come at times similar to this post (3:02 am CST), but I will respond.
    In lieu of Jafafa Hots mentioning ze does not feel comfortable here (my offer is borne out of a desire to provide a shoulder for someone when they need, not thinking the community makes Jafafa uncomfortable) the above offer is extended to anyone commenting or lurking (with the obvious caveat that if you are a Pitter or MRA-something easy to figure out-I will make use of the ‘Too Dumb, Didn’t Read’ button, otherwise called delete.

    (Yes, I recognize the potential for misuse on the behalf certain obssessed individuals out there, but presently my desire to provide support outweighs that)

  9. Ichthyic says

    just popping in to say “Yay for ditching the chat widget!”

    site is loading much more smoothly with no errors now.

  10. says

    I am supposed to be catching up on the thread, thinking I made enough margaritas for everyone, and now I get mojito requests. All right rq…for you :).
    Someone tell the drunk penguin in the corner that needs to sit down? Ze is disturbing my inner serenity with all those Chilly Willy impersonations.
    ::sidles off to the liquor room PZ keeps over yonder. Saunders back into the kitchen with 12 springs of mint (apparently the resident mint killers had not found the special storage bin), a bottle of carnonated water, a squirt bottle of simple syrup, a 1 liter bottle of Bacardi Silver and a 1 liter bottle of X-Rated Fusion Liquor , a muddler, two fresh limes and rq’s favorite drink mug.
    RQ- one X Rated Mojito coming up (we serve this at my bar).

    Oh gee, now the penguin is line dancing…

  11. says

    Jadehawk @502:
    I am uncertain if you have heard of and/or tried any of these variety of tea flavored vodkas out there.
    1.5 ounces of vodka with a lemon makes an Icepick.p
    You like tea, eh? Firefly Vodka makes five different sweet tea flavored vodkas. The first is the standard sweet tea flavored. I do not like tea, so I have not tried this, but I have seen people drink this on the rocks, with water, or lemonade.
    The second one they make ia sweet tea vodka infused with mint.
    Then there is the Peach flavor. That leaves the lemon flavor and the raspberry infused.

  12. rq says

    If I believed in that sort of thing, I’d nominate you for Sainthood. Or something (and no, that’s not directly because of the drinks you mix!).
    Oooh, line-dancing! (I only do this if drinking…)

    I love cheese, and I also love the idea of tea-flavoured vodka. OOoooooo… Too bad I don’t think it’s available here (except at exorbitant prices). Must have Sister take a look down back in Canada…

  13. says

    what a “chat widget is.

    That annoying thingy that popped up all of a sudden in the FTB window lower right hand corner about 24 hours ago. It’s gone now.

  14. rq says

    A propos of nothing, because sometimes it’s worth reposting things from Facebook.
    From a friend, in memory of her father, by Mary Elizabeth Frye:

    Do not stand at my grave and weep
    I am not there. I do not sleep.
    I am a thousand winds that blow.
    I am the diamond glints on snow.
    I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
    I am the gentle autumn rain.
    When you awaken in the morning’s hush
    I am the swift uplifting rush
    Of quiet birds in circled flight.
    I am the soft stars that shine at night.
    Do not stand at my grave and cry;
    I am not there. I did not die.

  15. says

    I had an individual take me up on my earlier email offer. I am more than happy to provide a set of ears for someone.

    Speaking of offering advice, Jim contacted me again for the first time since January when he swore he would never contact me again because he could not deal with having same sex attraction (quick synopsis for those that didnt read the firstbtime round–I met Jim online. He is deeply religious, lives in the Bible Belt of he U S, and feels ashamed for working at a daycare center. Following-immediately-our sexual encounter, we had a lively back and forth about the guilt he was feeling, his same was fresh in my mond, hence sex attractions, my non belief..yeah typically not stuff you chat about after having sex. At the end of our talk I told him that if he ever needed to talk I would lidten. Given that he contacted me out of the blue a few hoursago, I think the idea of email support awas fresh in my mind following Susan’ comment at #405.

    Off to bed now, and just heard it is 38 F outside. BrrrrrrGlad i have layers of sheets ( along with three floor fanfs and my Sounds Of Nature cd-set to “rain”

  16. carlie says

    I am having a Darwin day. This is what I now call a particular type of crappy day, after this quote by the man himself. It makes me feel better to think I’m sharing in his emotions. ;)

  17. Portia says

    Catching up on the overnight, in chunks:

    *high five* for making the phone call. I hope it all goes smoothly.

    You are so right,/i> about that dynamic. I don’t keep my nails long, but sometimes when I’m doing this or that at the station, they’ll break. It can hurt to break a nail! But heaven help me if I say it out loud… ;p
    Thanks for understanding :)

    Thank you for adding such a fun word to my lexicon. (And thanks to Azkyroth for the impetus)

  18. UnknownEric is GrumpyCat in human form says

    “Pocket Hose” sounds like an Unusual Euphemism.

    Yeah, my inner Beavis had a giggle fit the first time I saw that ad.

  19. Portia says

    Argblargle. Stupid html. I’m gonna sneak into the liquor cabinet while Tony’s not looking and snake some Carolan’s for my coffee.

    if you can’t manage to disinvite that crank, get a bunch of people to quitetly show up to the lecture holding signs or wearing shirts with real news heazdlines like the one about australia having to add a new color to their heat maps. also, hockeystick t-shirts.

    I like this.

    From a friend, in memory of her father, by Mary Elizabeth Frye:


    Tony: How was the exchange with Jim?

    Carlie: *hugs* and *chocolate* because I know those days oh so well.

    “Pocket Hose” sounds like an Unusual Euphemism.

    tehehehe. And your alt-text made me laugh aloud.


    It’s sunny here, and may reach 50°F if we’re lucky. Spring is creeping in, ever so slowly.

    I need coffee.

  20. rq says

    Ooooh, thanks, Portia, sure! Just in time for my afternoon jumpstart.
    And you can snake some Carolan’s into mine, too, while you’re at it! ;)

    I hope the bad feelings go away soon.

  21. Portia says

    rq, from the other thread (moving it here because I’m always self-conscious about being OT):

    Portia @134
    I say do it.
    Having been on the receiving end of such treatment, I say with some pride that I have actually, physically and obviously flinched away from such contact, even from ‘close’ relatives (of the future baby, that is).
    (By the way, I wonder if this goes back to a superstition that rubbing a pregnant woman’s belly is good luck? Although a quick google search indicates only partially…)

    I never heard the superstition justification. That’s…extra gross. Women aren’t horseshoes! Damnit. Good for you for flinching. Last night I asked my pregnant cousin if she has had that happen. She’s only about 3 months in, so apparently the rude people don’t notice yet.

    Re: the tshirts. I love that! So funny. Though it still is a little icky to me with the implication that the sperm-contributor can touch whenever for whatever reason. *shrug* My shirt would probably say “You rub mine, I rub yours” or something :)

  22. glodson says

    rq and Portia

    Thanks again. Probably will go and play with little girl, that will make me feel better. I just wanted to watch a stupid video, and I’m trying to figure out how to write a post in the Thunderdome over a physics question. Which has been more difficult in that my head feels like it is stuffed with cotton.

  23. rq says

    Hah, nice find, that, Portia!
    I’ll have to bookmark that for when someone in my circle of friends/relatives is pregnant. :D They’ll get it eventually.
    Also, this was my favourite answer to the question. And probably very true. :)

  24. Portia says

    Hahahah That IS a good answer.
    One of my favorite shirts in the collection was a hand with the circle/bar symbol and “Severe Injury May Result” :D

  25. dianne says

    Re people wanting to touch your belly when you’re pregnant, I wish this T-shirt had been available when I was pregnant. I feel it encapsulates my feelings on the joys of pregnancy, especially on random strangers getting involved.

  26. blf says

    blf!!! How old is the MDP?

    Well, she claims she’s not the one who pulled the plug and sank Atlantis, and has fond memories of chasing T. Rex through the fields of wild cheese, but can’t now find her photographs of Mrs Adam with an infamous pear. (She insists the legend it was an apple is as untrue as the rest of the book.)

  27. rq says

    Oh my goodness, I might just need one of those for now!! (But then people will ask when I’m planning on being pregnant again… Sorry, not for a while! Probably ever! (Minuscule chance of trying for #4, but that all depends on my sanity after this summer.))

  28. Esteleth, stupid fucking starchild Tolkien worshiping douche says

    Amusement: Pandora just gave me “Pomp and Circumstance.”

    Y’know, the “college graduation song.”

    :D :D

  29. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Well, I haven’t had a period cause me this much pain since high school. I was this >.< close to fainting at work today.
    I'm still feeling like shit, and that's after two pain pills that seem to be more closely related to horse sedatives than a regular pain pill. I'm sleepy, but also feel like I'm going to barf any moment now.

    ( I wanted to put a TMI warning, but then I thought that people complain about having a headache without any special warning, so why make something related to menstruation different? Stupid brain, wanting to treat "lady issues" as something worth a warning, bog forbid a man accidentally read about it without putting his protective helmet on.)

  30. rq says

    Oooh. I’m being reactionary.
    Friend posted this to his Facebook:

    Shortest Fairy Tale Ever
    Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl, “Will you marry me?”
    The girl said, “No.”
    And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and went fishing and hunting and played golf a lot and drank beer and scotch and had money in the bank account and left the toilet seat up and farted whenever he wanted.
    The End.

    So I commented,

    And the girl had a career, many wonderful and amazing lovers, and never stopped enjoying the fact that she did not have any children or any husbands to take care of, to pick up after, and to cook for, because she could spend every moment of her life for herself, and she was the happiest woman ever!
    AND she rode motorcycles, climbed Everst, drove a monster truck, learned to fence, and drank a pirate under the table. The End!

    I probably should have put something about knitting in there, but it didn’t seem to be the right sort of time for that.

  31. Portia says

    Wow, that’s really sucky. I haven’t had one that bad in a long time either. (I guess hormonal BC is good for that). Hope you feel better soon, and the nausea goes away.

    I love it! Interested to hear the response…

  32. glodson says

    This is why I’m going to teach physics. I strongly doubt that anyone will take exception with me using a scientific term. But call a vagina a vagina when talking about sex ed and the human anatomy!? The disgrace.

  33. says


    Well, I’m relieved the DailyKos thing at least pulled out the ‘handy pocket guide’. Woulda had to do it myself, otherwise.

    I totally think, beyond this, tho’, that Funny Or Die should get this guy on doing a riff on this. Nice little short in which he teaches biology with a bizarre mix of incomprehensible slurs and softeners…

    Better still. Make it a sex ed class, bring in frequently obscure and comic euphemisms for all possible bits of the anatomy involved–including ones generally not so euphemized*, until the whole thing is a disturbing and utterly baffling mix of baby talk and sailors’ blue… I see an explanation of digital stimulation which refers to ‘pinkie-winkies’. And the ad buy net can go to the defense fund.

  34. says

    I hope you’re able to help Jim, and the others who’ve taken your offer.

    Good response

    Hopefully the pills start to help more soon, or you otherwise feel better
    Interview is in about 6 hours now, I’m nervous as hell and it’s affecting my stomach. I really hope things go well.

  35. Pteryxx says

    From Escapist: more about videogames erasing female protagonists (in some cases, literally)-

    The Creepy Cull of Female Protagonists (video)

    More from the video – that game devs have to fight to even get female main characters ON THE BOX. That female characters generally aren’t allowed to initiate intimacy:

    (quick transcript, errors are mine) The general idea is that women can be sexy, they can be hot, they can have their massive boobs bounce up and down, parade around in a bikini or chainmail lingerie, all for your sexual enjoyment. The male audience can drool all over them. But the moment a female heroine initiates, reciprocates, or otherwise has any involvement OUTSIDE being an alienated peice of sex meat… things get … ‘awkward’.

    Jim references this PA report article about the game Remember Me, with a female protagonist (Nilin):

    That doesn’t mean Nilin’s sex wasn’t on other people’s minds, though. By the time Remember Me was shown to prospective publishers, it was too late to change Nilin from a woman to a man, and this was enough to cause potential backers to abstain from publishing the game. “We had some that said, ‘Well, we don’t want to publish it because that’s not going to succeed. You can’t have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,’” Morris told the Report.

    Even if Morris had changed Nilin to be male, that solution produced its own drama. “We wanted to be able to tease on Nilin’s private life, and that means for instance, at one point, we wanted a scene where she was kissing a guy,” Morris said. “We had people tell us, ‘You can’t make a dude like the player kiss another dude in the game, that’s going to feel awkward.’”

  36. Portia says

    I wish you the very best with the interview.

    I’m listening to the “Basic Skills Course” that’s required in the first year of legal practice. It’s the portion on stumbling blocks to avoid in the realm of ethics. For some reason it’s making me anxious, which is not what I need right now. It always seems like there are so many ways to inadvertently screw up. Eek.

  37. cicely () says

    This weekend, remember….

    *waving at DLC*

    WMDKitty: Here’s hoping that Tuesday goes well.

    glodson: The barf bucket is available to anyone who needs it. Just freshly scrubbed, as of last night!

    Amusement: Pandora just gave me “Pomp and Circumstance.”

    Y’know, the “college graduation song.”

    :D :D

    Better known in my college circle as, “My Raindeer Flies Sideways”.
    Or by my high school band as, “Oh, God, Not This Piece of Crap Again!!!”.

    *careful hugs* for Beatrice.

    rq, I like your fairy tale!

    Dalillama: All tentacles are crossed on your behalf.

  38. chigau (違う) says

    glodson #555
    I bet if you said “vagina” in a physics class, someone would complain ;)

  39. rq says

    Oh my gosh, hello, AJ Milne! How are you? And am I dense and blind or have you been gone a while?

    All I can offer is *hugs* and a glass of wine to relax. Sometimes putting warm things on that whole area (stomach-uterus-intestines) helps for me, but – I hope the pain passes soon!

    *hugs* for Dalillama and a whole lot of thumbs being held!!!

    As long as it’s only theoretical physics and you don’t have to talk about any female or male connections in electronics or something like that.

    So far no response except a couple of ‘Like’s.

    To me, this year’s Easter is the best of all, because Monday is April 1, and god (or whoever) can be all like April Fools!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! Or maybe just I will do that, for fun. Tee hee.

  40. rq says

    Something to try. :) It looks like Husband and my standard-issue near-complete bar supplies are woefully short of complete.

  41. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    It doesn’t hurt any more, I just feel a bit nauseous and faint ( I think that’s from the pills, I don’t take medication often, and these were some really strong pain pills- I took two)… really weak. I’ll take a glass of juice instead of wine. I like wine, but right now combining it with those pills might be a bad idea :)

    Btw. I loved your ending to that fairy tale.

  42. says

    sat down in the cafeteria a table away from a Christian proselytizing at a poor, unsuspecting foreign Muslim.

    Big mistake. No way in hell will I be able to finish my essay right now, I’ll just be silently raging at the fuckweasel droning on about how other religions are deceptions of the devil, and other people’s religious experiences are also deceptions, but Christian experiences are totes true.

  43. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Did anyone else miss Josh commenting? His comments are brilliant (I’m reading Chris’ Here I stand… thread).

  44. says

    OH FOR FUCKS SAKE SHUT UP YOU SANCTIMONIOUS LITTLE FUCK! I’m trying to explain why Chris McCandless is a next-stage version of Simmel’s Stranger, and you’re breaking my concentration with your Jesus totes fulfils all Jewish prophecies


  45. says

    see? totally breaking my concentration. I can’t even whine coherently on the internet anymore. christianity is dumbifying even at a distance

  46. says

    Portia @554, Maybe there are no vaginas in Idaho to speak of. “Nether regions,” and “sacred parts,” yes. Vaginas, no.

    Twin Falls, Idaho is heavily mormon and I suspect that worshipping ignorance of vaginas is expected. I also do not doubt that parents upset about the mention of vaginas within the context of a human anatomy lesson will stoop to making up all kinds of stories about the teacher in question. That teacher is about to be hit over the head with a monolithic mormon culture club.

    Notice that Fox News uses the verb “probed” to spice up the story.

    An Idaho biology teacher is reportedly being probed by a state commission after parents complained he used the word “vagina” during a lesson on the human reproductive system.

    Tim McDaniel said four parents were offended by his explanation of the biology of an orgasm, which included the word “vagina” during his lesson in a 10th-grade class at the Dietrich School, he told the Twin Falls Times-News….
    “I teach straight out of the textbook, I don’t include anything that the textbook doesn’t mention,” McDaniel said. “But I give every student the option not attend this class when I teach on the reproductive system if they don’t feel comfortable with the material.”…


  47. rq says

    Oooh, I’ll go look, Beatrice, last I looked it was stalled on comment 134 or something!

  48. Portia says

    I actually almost sent up the Lynna-signal based on the location. I was going to ask if it was likely to be Mormon-repression-related. Thanks for preempting the question :)

    It boggles the mind…

  49. says

    and now they’re trying to proselytize at each other. my brain is about to drain out my ears.

    now at least I know why this table was the one free table in the cafeteria


  50. says

    Looking at the story of the Idaho biology teacher who is being harassed for using the word “vagina” during a human anatomy lesson:

    According to students who have set up a Facebook page to “SAVE THE SCIENCE TEACHER!!” certain parents may have had a political agenda in going after McDaniel. Sixty-six percent of church goers in Lincoln County, where Dietrich is located, are affiliated with the Mormon LDS Church, according to 2002 Glenmary Research Center data.

    “[T]here are a couple people in the community that are trying to get Mr. McDaniel fired for teaching the reproductive system, climate change, and several other science subjects,” students wrote. “All these subjects were taught from the book and in good taste. He cares for each of his students and goes the extra mile to help them all. Now is the time for us to help by supporting him!”

    McDaniel acknowledged that he may have angered some parents by showing the film “An Inconvenient Truth” during a lesson about climate change.

    He explained to the Times-News that students were asked to write a paper on their thoughts about climate change after seeing the film.

    “I’m not looking for one answer, I just want them to be able to explain what they believe,” McDaniel said….

    Yep, that sounds about right. This version is probably closer to the truth.
    Raw Story link.

    Note that Fox News repeated unsubstantiated claims that the teacher had committed other crimes, but did not interview students, nor look into the context of the mormon community in any way. Other, real journalists are left with the task of actually investigating, and of debunking the Fox News fodder.

  51. says

    Portia, I think I got the Lynna-signal anyway. You may not have sent it out intentionally, but I saw the smoke issuing from my USB port and thought, “Pharyngulite alert system is working!”

    More news on this incident here:

    Daily Kos provides a color-coded chart of euphemisms for vagina.

    I don’t think Twin Falls, Idaho realizes that the rest of the world is going to come down on them with more ridicule than can be warded off with a consortium of closed mormon minds.

  52. says



    And yes I have been away. Various things. Some crazy busy and otherwise occupied, mostly. Plus it’s winter and we had snow this time, for a change. But I’ll probably be somewhat less online for a little while yet, even with that melting, now.

  53. rq says

    AJ Milne
    Well, I hope the mountains were good this year, at least!


    I love the colour of red cabbage raw.
    (Colouring eggs blue* for Latvianeaster this year, first-time attempt.)

    *Ordinarily they’re brown/patterned brown+green from boiling in onion-leaf water and wrapped in herbs.

  54. says

    I have an… intense dislike… for cheese, myself. Most cheeses are too intense (in flavour or odour), and soft cheeses present a texture issue.

    I’ll tolerate it when it’s holding my food together (i.e. pizza).

    And I can’t really digest dairy anyway, so… yeah.

  55. Pteryxx says

    I love the colour of red cabbage raw.
    (Colouring eggs blue* for Latvianeaster this year, first-time attempt.)

    *Ordinarily they’re brown/patterned brown+green from boiling in onion-leaf water and wrapped in herbs.

    Ooo, coloring with food? Please go on? (how do the herbs stay on?)

  56. rq says

    No. Preferably use white eggs, although paler brown ones will do, as well.
    You can have a pot of onion skins on the boil and ready to go, but this is not necessary – sometimes a nicer, more nuanced mottling can be achieved by boiling in plain water.
    You need things like parsley, new shoots of mint, dill, cilantro (also rice and ordinary thread). All of these things are dampened and stuck onto the egg (takes a bit of practice) in a pattern of choice, then covered all over with onion skins and (as is traditional!!) placed into old pantyhose to (a) keep everything stuck to the egg while it boils and (b) you can string a lot of eggs into one leg of pantyhose and therefore less risk losing them in the pot of onion skins.
    Place them into pot and boil (10 – 15 minutes, longer for more intense colour), cool and unwrap!
    (I’ll have to document with photos.)

    The red cabbage colouring is a bit tougher, I’ve been meaning to try it, because with brown eggs, it gives a lovely stone-blue-gray tint, but today I saw some (photos of) sky-blue eggs. Apparently, you need to boil up some red cabbage (a lot per litre), then add 3 – 4 tablespoons vinegar to make the colour stick; decorate your eggs as above but minus the onion skins, boil them in the red cabbage juice. For more intense colour, cool the cabbage liquid down and leave the eggs sitting in it for a while. Some people say red wine must be added too, but (a) it’s a waste of red wine and (b) I think it reduces the blue and gives more of a grey tint.

    Combining the methods might be interesting, as long as the onion doesn’t overpower the cabbage.

    Somewhere I have information on how to get all the colours of the rainbow. If you’re interested, I’ll dig it up and post some more egg-colouring ideas. :) With food!

  57. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Hm, I hope mentioning I’m part Slovenian won’t lessen my chances of getting this job for realz. I didn’t think of that until now. Maybe they just won’t care, or forget about it by the time this position possibly opens at the end of the year.

  58. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    You can also do it with beet, no?
    I think I tried it one year, but I’m not sure. (why do I forget everything!?)

  59. rq says

    I think so, but that one also needs some vinegar (I think) to intensify the colour, and I usually see it suggested with onion skins to get a nice deep reddish-brown colour, rather than blue.

    A really strong chamomile infusion (8 tablespoons per litre of water, infused for 2 or more hours) with eggs incubated for a few hours (already boiled) will give a nice green-yellow colour (untested by me).
    Blueberry jam with onion skins will make nearly-black eggs with a blue tone (untested by me).
    A strong curry/kurkuma infusion (3 tablespoons per half-litre of water) will give bright yellow eggs (untested by me).

  60. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    I didn’t mean to paint any eggs, but now I really want to play with colours.

  61. glodson says


    That was an interesting video. Never seen Jimquistion before. I’ve watched a ton now.

    One thing I noticed. He talked about some of the same issues that that women have addressed. I looked at the comments. I notice a lack of rage directed at him. Maybe it is the commenting community there, but I can’t but help to think he’s taken more seriously being a man talking about sexism in games.

  62. Portia says

    (I’ll have to document with photos.)

    Yes, please! Sounds really neat.
    *later* Ooooooh cooool!

    Hm, I hope mentioning I’m part Slovenian won’t lessen my chances of getting this job for realz.

    I apologize for my ignorance, but why would it?

    I didn’t mean to paint any eggs, but now I really want to play with colours.


  63. carlie says

    Thanks, Portia. :) Hugs for everyone as needed. I’ve been up and down lately so not quite following as well as I should be, but hope everyone’s day gets better from here on out.

  64. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    I apologize for my ignorance, but why would it?

    It probably wouldn’t, but I’m a fretter. :)
    There’s been a lot of anti-Slovenian sentiment here for some years, not as much as anti-Serbian, but not insignificant either.

  65. Portia says

    Ah, I see. I had Serbian roommate in college. She had very strong feelings about political tensions over there (naturally), but she slipped out of English most of the time she’d start yelling talking about them, so I’m not sure what they were : /

  66. rq says

    *hugs* is the best I can do, I hope they’re able to look past that (if you want the job!).

  67. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Considering how Croats living in diaspora are often much bigger nationalists than home-grown ones, I’m not optimistic. But maybe she was different. It’s probably good that she lives (if she still does) in US. The situation across the border isn’t great, economically.

  68. rq says

    These ones are apparently onion skins + blueberries in various proportions.
    I hope I get a chance to do some experimenting – but I’ll try to get the process in photos and share after the weekend!

  69. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Thanks, but I’m quite probably worrying about nothing. I tend to do that sometimes, weighing my every word after the fact, in case I said something that someone taking an extremely uncharitable view might take wrong… :)

  70. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Sorry for even mentioning that, it should have stayed an inside worry. It’s stupid and not very probable.

  71. Portia says

    Considering how Croats living in diaspora are often much bigger nationalists than home-grown ones, I’m not optimistic. But maybe she was different. It’s probably good that she lives (if she still does) in US. The situation across the border isn’t great, economically.

    I’m not sure where she is now. She had a life that was totally foreign to me that involved lots of different countries, and what sounded like high living. She may have been puffing it up for all I know, though. I think she ended up in the Midwest at that little college because of a scholarship. I ended up living with her because the college sent out an email that she needed a roommate. Tiniest. Apartment. Ever. But the $225 rent was nice… (It was a lot for at the time, of course…).

  72. says


    They were. Considerably better than last year, anyway, tho’ I guess that’s not saying so much. Couple really nice, heavy, sticky falls of snow, some days we had something approximating powder, even, tho’ y’know… East Coast variety. Rockies and Alps people would laugh or weep, depending on whether they were expected to accompany us through it, I’d expect.

    Weird season, tho’. Up and down… drought of nothing and then wump, it’s a blizzard. Climate types are warning us to get used to it, and be grateful for the blizzards, if that’s your thing, because that’s probably the deal for a while, now. More heat, more energy in the atmosphere, so you get bigger storms, but also less frozen water overall.

    Anyone still saying the climate isn’t changing hasn’t even been on a damned mountain, lately, seriously.

  73. Portia says

    My cousin told me last night that she read an article saying a study showed that the smaller ice caps made the spring colder this year, and that was just preposterous to her. Sigh. That was in a long line of ideas she repeated that were straight off something like Drudge. I couldn’t convince her that without a meteorology degree, the best course is to listen to the majority of scientists that explain the weather trends in a certain way.

  74. says


    Yeah, my goodness. It’s counterintuitive, where ‘intuitive’ equals ‘the first stupid thing I’d expect’? Well, then, the massive consensus must be wrong.

    Tell her for me she’s welcome to come talk to the old-timers in the Laurentians who tell me how long they’ve been watching both ends of the seasons dwindle away over the decades they personally have survived through. And I can show her my innovative new techniques for threading a board down granite cliffs, snow now largely optional…

    It’s the next big thing, I tells ya. Or may have to be. Anyway, I may even encourage her to try it herself.

    No helmet for Drudge readers, tho’. Purported economic conservatives should support this as a fiscal measure. We’re saving those for people with something to protect.

  75. rq says

    AJ Milne
    The Laurentians were my mountains, back when… well, not that I was much of a skier. But that’s my old stomping ground in other ways, too. Say hello for me.
    (You wouldn’t happen to know a little town called Point-au-Chene, would you? And the Rouge River?)
    And I’m glad the season was a good one. I hope your current busy-ness is just regular busy-ness, annnd… well, it’s nice to see you here! :)

    Worry away, it probably helps to get it out! :) I hope your weekend is good, at least (I know, religious holidays, but still!).


    Good night, all – I’ll check in tomorrow before leaving but after that I’ll be out for a few days. Good weekends to everyone!

  76. rq says

    I meant, Beatrice, that if you need to wrry out loud, go ahead… Not that you should be worrying all the time. :/ Sorry for crappy writing skills! *hugs*

  77. Portia says

    Night rq! Hope the holidays are unstressful : )

    AJ Milne:
    Ha! That helmet bit made me snort. It’s bizarre the sort of denial people will get into.
    She also thinks that making secular employers provide birth control (and, she alleges, RU-486) to employees is unconstitutional. I tried explaining that all constitutional rights have limits, but that didn’t sway her. She seemed like she was thinking about it though…so… there’s that. She’s not even morally opposed to birth control. It’s just tribalism, I think. Sigh.

  78. says


    Thanks. It is good to be back. And it’s mostly pretty regular… Business cycle always seems to turn March and environs into white nights, somehow. Did wind up spending some of the break on the mountain, anyway. Daughter learned to board, too.

    Brave girl. Not so much learning to board (tho’ that, too) as trying to learn from her ‘I don’t even play a teacher on TV because no one would be so glaringly incompetent as to cast me’ Daddy.

    And I have been to Pointe-au-Chêne, a while back, one of those summer drive, get the kids into the country things. I remember it being… Umm…

    Okay, honestly, I don’t remember much. But that could just be early senility or too many knocks on the head, not so much a commentary on the place. I forget a lot of things.

    Small. That’s mostly what stuck. I mostly don’t even drive by much, as I’m not frequently quite that far on that road, usually–323 North from Montebello goes up to Tremblant, and even the 50 to Montréal–and east of that, so all the stuff in Beaupré and the townships–kinda bypasses it all, now.

    And I’m pretty sure I’ve been into Grenville, I mean, apart from through from coming across via Hawkesbury… If memory serves, I think I attended a wedding there, as I’m pretty sure one of my university friends married someone from the latter… But I’m trying to remember if I’ve got that quite right. It was somewhere very near there, anyway.

    And Portia/#605, re tribalism, I think I’ve seen that. No, there’s not particular reason I should be agin’ this, but, well, I hear you libruls are for it, and apparently I’m not one of those, so: opposed.

  79. says

    Hi folks! I’m hanging out in the Washington Dulles airport, waiting to go to Austin! W00t! I wrote a blog post. I wrote two! It’s so awesome when I’m not working.

  80. says

    Hello there! So I was sitting outside a coffee shop today, minding my own business, when a man and his many kids approached my about my dog. Then, he saw the book I was reading: Atheism: The Case Against God! oooooo ahhhhhh. This is when he proceeded to ask me about my thoughts on it, and I pseudo-answered him. I was not interested. He was holding a KJV Bible. Then he said, “I assume you’re interested in the TRUTH.” “Sure.” Then, “It takes more faith to not believe in God then to believe.” What am I suppose to make of that? What do I say to such a question? I find it absurd.

  81. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Random banner ad for a travel agency has the headline “Early Birds Catch More Than Worms!”

    …are you SURE you want people thinking about catching worms when they’re considering traveling? x.x

  82. says

    You can also boil just plain eggs in a really strong onion skin soup, and then, with a sharp needle point, scratch various patterns and drawings, like so!

    this is the kind my family used to make. I think I even have a pic somewhere of a couple eggs I’ve made that way…

    …found them: one egg, two eggs, three eggs :-)

  83. says

    What am I suppose to make of that? What do I say to such a question? I find it absurd.

    That’s not even a question. That’s a particularly vacuous excuse for a bumper sticker virus, unsuccessfully attempting to disguise itself as anything better.

    Personally, I like to present anyone making such comic claims about what requires ‘faith’ with ‘AJ’s sliding scale of faith required’. Following the employment of some remarkably precise laboratory methods for working the same out, we can now present you with:

    Cosmology/Faith required

    Literal hairy thunderer and some messy and ill-advised futility plots involving talking snakes = 4.2 kilorubes

    Neodeist clockmaker ‘looove force’ = 3.9 kilorubes

    Russell’s teapot, oddly enough, is actually out there, and also created this universe, sometime after watching its daytime soaps = 3.7 kilorubes

    Nope. Benny Hinn’s hairdo is the deity = 1.9 kilorubes

    Shatner’s toupée, rather = 1.6 kilorubes

    Scratch that; the Aztecs were right about Quetzalcoatl and company and man, are Cortes’ descendants ever going to hate the rapture = 1.2 kilorubes

    Wrong again. Believe it or not, Joseph Smith nailed it in one = 4.9 kilorubes

    Wait. No. L. Ron Hubbard. But he was possessed by the evil one and got it exactly backward. Hail Xenu, saviour of the universe! 6.2 kilorubes.

    Any of these measurements contain any calculation whatsoever = 11.9 kilorubes

    Any fucking moron carrying a KJV in public and spouting bumper sticker truisms could put together a decent epistemology even if it was dropped on him in a cement bucket from orbit = 19.6 megarubes

    (/… and I can come up with a handy printable pocket-sized PDF of it if you need it for the next time you see him.)

  84. says

    Among the few responses I’ve mulled over in my mind (having not had that question directed my way in meatspace), one of my favorites:
    “I’m sorry, which of the thousands of gods that humanity has created are you referring to?”

  85. says


    Maybe it is the commenting community there, but I can’t but help to think he’s taken more seriously being a man talking about sexism in games.

    Banish all doubt from your mind my friend.
    That is exactly the reason he is being taken seriously.

    Cuz “bitches be irrational, illogical and need to make me sammich”, or some other sort of sexist drivel that I find so appalling that typing that much make me want to fucking puke.

  86. broboxley OT says

    tea flavored Irish whiskey is good for breakfast
    3/4 Irish Whiskey 1/4 hot black tea. Some strange people invert the proportions but not me when I am camping.

  87. Asher Kay says

    “It takes more faith to not believe in God then to believe.”

    How about, “I’m not an atheist because I think faith is a bad thing. I’m an atheist because god doesn’t exist.”

  88. Portia says

    “It takes more faith to not believe in God then to believe.”

    It is funny to note that this statement concedes a lot of rhetorical ground. They’re admitting faith is a poor basis for decision-making.

  89. Asher Kay says

    “What am I suppose to make of that? What do I say to such a question? I find it absurd.”

    Another fun thing to do is to counterattack rather than argue on the other person’s terms. My favorite is:

    “Believing in god is irresponsible”

    The first response is usually “How so?” Now you get to lecture *them* about how people need to take responsibility for their own moral decisions. Also, it allows you to maintain the position that it’s better not to believe in god even if he exists, in order to be a more responsible person.

    Fun all around.

  90. Asher Kay says

    They’re admitting faith is a poor basis for decision-making.

    Ooooh, yeah. Good stuff.

  91. says

    I would like to make use of the Horde for advice in my response to Jim. He has sent me a multi part message and given how conflicted he is, I want to combine informative and compassionate as well as concise. The perspectives of the many people here can be an invaluable tool which I would like to utilize. I am not just referring to commenters, regular or otherwise. Lurkers also have wotrthwhile opinions and experiences. Currently, I am having dinner and will begin momentarily poring over his emails to isolate what I feel are the areas of interest. Once I finish that, I will post my thoughts and would welcome any and all opinions. I intend to respond to him at some point tomorrow (early to late afternoon, US CST).

    This sounds so cool, calm and collected, almost dispassionate even. It is not. This is about the struggle of one human being to find a measure of peace ad he struggles through life. I take this seriously. With full knowlege that nothing beneficial to Jim may come of this. But a small part of me hopes that something, anything I say van be of help to him. His experiences are compounded significantly by his religious beliefs. While I do not seek to overly criticize his religion (I do not want to scare him so much that he ignores everything else I say), he knows my opinion about the harm ofvreligious thought.

  92. Portia says

    Today, I walked for over an hour. Along that walk, I decided to stop in the village flower shop to say hello to the proprietor, D. She’s a long winded 63 year old lady who’s always been very nice to me, even if she often does talk for 45 minutes straight about everything under the sun. I don’t know what possessed me to randomly pop in and say hello; I usually go in when I have an actual reason to. Yet I found my feet carrying me up the steps to her door. We exchanged normal “How are you?” small talk, and when I asked, she really told me. Her good friend is dying of cancer…probably tonight. She burst into tears at one point. Never know who actually needs to tell you how they are.

  93. cicely (mumblemumble-SomethingHalf-Witty-mumblemumble) says

    One of my SCA friends does pysanky eggs. He taught a class in it one year, and I made one all my own-self!

    “Kilorubes”. Love it!
    :) :) :)

    Tony, even if Jim gets nothing from it in the short term, there’s always hope for the long term. Sometimes, a crack just needs time to widen.
    And have I told you lately that you’re Awesome? ‘Cause it’s true.

    And so are you, Portia.

  94. Portia says

    Aw shucks, carlie and cicely. Your good opinion means a lot.
    It was unusual to be able to actually offer a physical hug of support to someone who was hurting.

    I second the “Tony kicks ass” sentiment.
    The “long term” thing is also totally true. Putting together pieces of rational thinking that I was exposed to over several years is why I’m where I am today.

  95. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Sometimes, a crack just needs time to widen.


  96. Portia says

    Also, carlie, That video is pretty good.
    Except I didn’t know that ordering turkey and veggie burgers was douchey, haha.

  97. cicely (mumblemumble-SomethingHalf-Witty-mumblemumble) says

    Something caught in your throat, Azkyroth?

  98. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I find it funny that the season finale for a show about zombies is on Easter Sunday.

    My wife doesn’t appreciate my extremely astute observations.

  99. says

    I have the same thoughts. I have a disposition that is not very confrontational. I would rather just sit and do my own thing. So when someone confronts me on these “pressing issues” I would rather just stare and say very little. That is a bad thing. I end up stirring about these things.

    The morality one is good. Don’t you hate when these things come up after the “encounter.”

    I was listening to George H smith debate Greg Bahnensen, I believe that is his name, and it was entertaining. Greg kept saying that all people are “Crypto-Christians”, and other obnoxious things. It was a bizarre one. Anyone else read Smith recently?

  100. ednaz says

    Hello All! Trying to catch up. Enjoying reading everybody SO much!

    rq @ 552 Excellent story! Especially the fencing and the part about the Pirate. I can totally see you doing that!

    Cicely @ 560 (Remember This Weekend) BaHahahahaaaaa! Most excellent! Sent that to My Hoodlum.

    Beatrice @ 565 You have my sympathies. Hopefully by the time you read this you are feeling so much better. *gentle hugs*

    Sally Strange @ 607 Hope you have a great time in Austin! Yay for getting away!!

    collectedanimal @ 608 I am so sorry you were descended upon! Hopefully the donuts didn’t annoy you too much.
    At the same time, I am loving The Horde responses. *thumbsup*

    Azkyroth @ 609 BaHahaha! *snort*
    When people do it to themselves – that gets me the most. : )

    Jadehawk and rq Thanks for sharing the pictures of your beautiful eggs. : )

    My Mother colored eggs “naturally” one year. The came out Splattered Grey. They looked diseased. It was really off-putting. : (
    (That’s one of those – Hey! If I have to suffer, so do you! – stories. : D )

    Oh and rq, Thanks for the very nice compliment. Made me blush. : )

  101. ednaz says

    Portia @ 621 It sounds like you lifted a great burden off her shoulders.
    Is there no end to the good things you do?

    Tony @ 620 You are far too decent. : )
    I look forward to hearing more of your story.

    cicely @ 623 Oooohhhh! Very fancy!

    Rev BDC @ 629 Kindly revel in my hearty chuckle. : )
    I will tell My Hoodlum your joke when he gets home.

    Azkyroth @ 626 You are alright!

    chigau @ 561 For The Win!! : D

  102. says

    @ ednaz
    The doughnuts just lead me to looking into the “TRUTH” further. I will just continue on my way to the darkside. The light shines brighter there.

  103. Portia says

    Is there no end to the good things you do?

    You’re very sweet. There definitely is. Today was happenstance. The things I do on purpose are just…well, they’d be an attempt at balancing out my karma if I believed in karma. :)

    I guess my biggest takeaway of the day was that old “you never know what another person is dealing with any given day.”

  104. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    cicely – *pouncehug* Good news about your husband.

    mildlymagnificent – Good news. I hope mrmagnificent enjoys his time away from the rehabilitation center.

    Portia – You are a very good person. She won’t forget that you cared enough to ask and to listen.

    Tony – You are also a very good person.

  105. Asher Kay says


    Don’t you hate when these things come up after the “encounter.”

    Happens to me a lot. When I hear a really excellent debater, it makes me envious.

    When I was bored and lived closer to downtown, I used to practice on Jehovah’s Witnesses. You can stake out an extremely absurd position and see how far you can take it.

  106. ednaz says

    collected animal – The funny thing is, the further you go looking for the truth, the further you leave religion behind.

  107. ednaz says

    I just talked to my Mother (she and Father are having Easter Dinner).
    Last Easter Father asked the ‘children’ (me and my siblings) if they would say the prayer. There were groans around the table (I was surprised and pleased it wasn’t just me) but we bowed our heads to make Father happy. *more groans just thinking about it*
    Mother is preparing for Sunday. I asked her if she was making the famous soft sugar cookies with the white frosting in rabbit shapes. She said yes and I told her I was so happy. Oh boy oh boy my Mom can bake.
    If they’re not all eaten by the time I get there I’ll sneak several home and send them to anyone who wants one through the USB. : )

    Best Wishes to Everyone who will be dealing with…ahem…enjoying the company of religious people this weekend. May you not have too many groans. : D

  108. Portia says

    Those cookies sound amazing. And thank you for reminding me I’m supposed to bake something for the family brunch on Saturday :)

    The grandma who is hosting that is obnoxiously religious but the family gatherings are usually pretty benign outside of a pre-meal prayer. The other side of my family is even less religious, and we mainly just let grandpa pray out loud if he wants to. It’s just another 30 seconds of letting him feel like The Most Important Fecking Person Evar. *eyeroll*

  109. ednaz says

    collected animal @642 hee hee AND

    I will just continue on my way to the darkside. The light shines brighter there.

    I like this. Can I use it? I promise to give you credit! : )

  110. broboxley OT says

    On family prayer, as the eldest that falls to me but we dont get together very often and it only applies when my ma is present. I made sure I had a rambling mess that sounded like Old Lodge Skins from little big man giving a lecture. Wasn’t asked again.

  111. The Mellow Monkey says

    I’m spending Easter with my mother, which means that any references to religion will probably be followed by her talking about how much she hates religious people and that it’s no different from the Easter Bunny and how deeply offensive it is that these fantasies actually have an impact on our lives.

    So…I don’t have to worry about any praying.

  112. says

    @The Mellow Monkey
    My parents have finally realized my position on all of the religious and god talk, so, for the most part, I don’t have to take part in all of the psycho babble. Took a few years, though.

  113. says

    Ok, the following are my thoughts on the major points in Jim’s emails that I feel need attention in some way or another. Some things I think he needs a firm correction on (health relate matters), while others, I think he could benefit from knowing that he’s not a piece of shit. I learned long ago that when offering criticism, one of the effective ways of doing so, such that the recipient doesn’t immediately shut down when you begin, is to sandwich your criticisms between compliments. Though not the same kind of scenario, I want to take a leaf out of that book so to speak. I want to open up with my positive thoughts on him, as well as reassuring him that he has value and worth. In between that, I want to offer a combination of my thoughts, as well as giving him some resources to answer any health related questions he may have. Given the depth of his insecurity and self loathing, I intend to take pains to avoid saying anything that gives him the impression that anything I say is an indictment on him. Additionally, while I want to address-to some degree-his religious opinions (how can I not when they’ve so thoroughly fucked him over thus far), I do not want to come across as being so critical of something he finds value in. My fear is that he will reject the far more salient points I want to address, because he is so invested in Christianity.

    (I *suck* at this Ctrl-F feature that lets you look for specific key words, otherwise I would provide a link to my original post during Xmas holiday season of 2012, when I initiallly met Jim. It is not necessary reading, but it is relevant)

    My purpose in posting this here (and x-posted to the Dome) is to allow for a number of diverse opinions and experiences to inform my subsequent email to Jim. I am not naive enough to think anything I say will allow him to break free from a lifetime of , but as a wise person said earlier “sometimes a crack just needs time to widen”. In addition, there is so much to unpack here, while simultaneously recognizing that I am not a psychiatrist, that the opinions of people whom I respect can help in my response to him. I do not intend for this to be the final word on any of the issues he is dealing with, but if he chooses to once again cut off contact, I would like for my response to be substantial on its own. Finally, I expect nothing from anyone reading this. I know everyone has their own lives and their own concerns, so I do not expect anyone to drop what they are doing to assist me in this. For those that choose to, I have no expectations that you will address everything I bring up.

    In no order of importance:
    1- My offer after our initial meeting was not empty. I suspected that he would want/need *someone* to talk to about anything, especially the confusing feelings he was having. When he texted me in January saying that he “couldn’t do this any more” and was deleting all of my contact information, I thought I would not hear from him again. That I have, shows all the more that he is struggling to come to terms with a sea of conflicting feelings within himself. Then there’s the sexual component that he has expressed stated that he want to engage in once more. I have told him that as long as he is feeling shame and guilt over our night of sex, that I do not want to repeat that. More on this later.

    2- Raised Christian, with no further information about what denomination, Jim was gifted in school and obedient at home and in church. The latter is not a virtue and something I want to discuss in some degree. Obedience to religious thought does no one any good. Given the lack of evidence for any supernatural creator deity, all obedience leads to is blind belief in authority figures. We all know how bad that can turn. What would be a good angle here? Examples of the harm of religion? Religious leaders manipulating and harming their followers? Discussing the why obedience is harmful? I want to avoid preaching to him, but at the same time I think it may be important to convey that a system of morality that depends on our obedience is not one focused on maximizing our happiness while also minimizing the suffering of others.

    3- Jim discovered he had an attraction to men at a young age. At some point during his teens, he had a few friends that he had some measure of sexual interaction with. He described these interactions in a prudish, ashamed way. Instead of referring to actual body parts, he refers to “private parts” and oral sex as “doing stuff”. The guilt and shame have been part of him for a long time. This is not just shame and guilt over being gay. It is also guilt and shame over sex in general.

    4- At some point in his teens, he was caught by his mother with another guy. She apparently spoke with him about this, and swept the matter under the carpet. The feelings he had following this are saddening. He spoke of disappointing his mother…of disgusting her. He talked of angering and disappointing god. At no point does he discuss his needs and want. It’s all about his mother (and no mention of a father) and the asshole invisible sky daddy.

    5- Also apparent that he valued (values?) the opinions of people in his religious community. After the incident with his mother, he became worried about upsetting the opinions of people if they found out his secrets.

    6- He became suicidal enough to lay down on train tracks. Thankfully, he decided he did not want to die.
    I feel this is a major point that I should touch on, because far too many people, gay or otherwise, have taken their lives because they felt the were disappointing others or god.

    7- He turned to god and the church in the hopes of withstanding the urges he had. It became apparent to me here that he sees no distinction between his sexual urges and any emotional connection. He seems to associate being gay with *just* sex. I think his view of relationships and romance, whether homo- or hetero- sexual is flawed. Later comments go a long way to confirming this.

    8- He spoke of “investing in the lives of others” after his suicide attempt. Though he spoke of this having some degree of success, I was left wondering “what about YOU?”

    9- One oddity…he said he became hesitant to discuss being Christian with others. Given the overwhelming impact of Christianity in the United States, I can’t begin to understand feeling shameful about being a christian. Christianity is *everwhere*.

    10- His last year of college, he fell in love with his best friend whom he lived with as roommates. He spoke of becoming jealous when his friend began dating women. I feel some of the actions he describes need to be addressed. He says he turned down jobs in other cities-jobs that offered more money- so that he could remain around his buddy. Jim mentioned that he would sometimes sneak into his friends room at night and watch him sleep, as well as even kiss his body. Violating the privacy of someone is justified in certain extreme circumstances, but not here. This was categorically wrong and extremely creepy. While I understand to an extent-where did he turn to for guidance on how to navigate relationships and dating, especially given his homosexuality-of all the things he expressed disgust and guilt in over his lengthy emails to me, his actions here were not among them. I feel it is important to convey to him that such behavior is not ok. Again though, doing so with care is important. He is in a state of emotional flux and I do not want to unduly contribute to worsening that state of mind. He mentioned that his friend sometimes woke up and he scrambled to explain himself, with diminishing degrees of success.

    11- going to a preacher (something else…perhaps he needs to consult someone with the proper education to be a therapist), he was advised to speak with his friend and tell him the truth; which he did. Thankfully, his friend was understanding and they remained roommates and friends, though in time he moved out to get married. I think he downplays the acceptance his friend showed him. I want to briefly talk to him about that. Clearly there are people he cares about that do not reject him upon finding out he is gay.

    12- He places misplaced value on not drinking or doing drugs or watching pornography. When speaking of masturbating as a youth, he mentions “only to soft core porn”. His words show that he thinks a good person is someone who does these things. Again, his system of morality is not centered on how and to what degree his actions impact the lives of others, but on being obedient.

    13- As a gay man in his late 20s, he was feeling a lot of sexual desires with no outlets. He turned to online sites, along with drinking and watching porn; in part because he was feeling of little worth. He met his first guy from an online site, but nothing came of it (he notes the guy did not look IRL as he did online, and he said he was turned off by how “girlie” the guy was; I despise descriptions that many give towards men that do not act in the socially approved MAN manner; the enforcement of gendered stereotypes is harmful, but amidst all of this, I do not want to run too far afield; )

    14- He later encountered one of those people on these dating sites who describes themselves as a masseuse. It is clear Jim thought the guy really was. In addition to an unhealthy view of relationships and sexuality, he displays a naivete that I have little experience with. I suspect this has something to do with being taught to trust the word of people around him, instead of questioning. In any case, he found himself attracted to this guy and they had sexual interactions several times. Each time, Jim would feel disgusted and guilty over his actions. The last time they met up, they had sex, which was a first for Jim. It saddens me to know that in addition to the guilt he faced after they had sex, he also had the added worry of acquiring an STI, despite the fact that the guy put a condom on him. Jim says he went home and sprayed LYSOL on his penis.
    This is a definite area that needs to be addressed. As with many people, he is navigating the world of sex with little to no accurate information on the safest way to do so.

    15- Following this, he deleted all information of the guy and tried to keep himself busy to avoid any “impure” thoughts. Of course this ended in the exact opposite way he was aiming for. Denying his sexual needs merely meant they would bottle up and express themselves at a later date. Which is exactly what happened. He experienced a period of no sex and staying busy followed by bouts of random hookups. Followed by the intense guilt and frustration.

    16- In another display of his inexperience at dating, he encountered a guy online, and from his own words practically begged him to have sex with him. It profoundly bothers me to know that someone devalues themselves so much that they beg for someone to have sex with them. Then he rationalized it away by saying that begging showed that he was trying to the sex about the needs of the other guy. His deeply flawed views on healthy sexuality are painful to read.

    17- In time he ran the guy off, and once again, could not deal with his emotions. He turned to his ex roommate, his preacher and his boss-discussing the turmoil he felt. He went so far as to edit the filters on his computer to prevent himself from accessing pornographic sites. Of course we know how successful that was. Over the Xmas holidays of 2012, while at a friends house, he went online and came across one of my profiles on a site, which led to our interaction, and my subsequent TL;DR in the Thunderdome.

    Jim says he is getting therapy, but characterizes that as “sad”.

    Any and all thoughts from anyone willing to read this TL;DR is greatly appreciated. I harbor no illusions that I will be successful in my endeavors to help Jim, but given that he has few places to turn to, and that he does trust me, I would like to do what I can, with the hope that somehow, someday he will be able to attain a measure of inner peace and focus more on making himself happy in the here and now, all while being responsible in his pursuit of a meaningful life with someone he loves as well as a healthier understanding of human sexuality.

    Thanks in advance.

  114. Portia says

    Very neat eggs! :)

    G’night, all. I’m about to fall asleep on my keyboard.

  115. says

    Welcome to the Lounge. Apologies if I’ve missed comments by you in the past. I do try to stay caught up on The Lounge, though work sometimes necessitates spending half a day away from here and we all know how threadrupt half a day can leave one.

    I have no mint left for Mojitos but I do have delicious Prickly Pear frozen margaritas and some sangria available.

  116. ednaz says

    Portia – Looks like I missed you, you’ll see this later, hopefully : )

    but the family gatherings are usually pretty benign outside of a pre-meal prayer

    That’s good. And I’ll groan for you during Granpa’s prayer ’cause you’re probably too polite to. : p

    Asher Kay – I missed this earlier

    When I was bored and lived closer to downtown, I used to practice on Jehovah’s Witnesses. You can stake out an extremely absurd position and see how far you can take it.

    Most excellent. *wicked grin*

    I wouldn’t make a good debater. The red light comes on and I become incoherent save a lot of anger and swear words. ; )

  117. says

    Thanks for the welcome. I’ve been a fan of this blog for a while, and it hasn’t been until recently that I decided to take part. I appreciate the warm welcome. I see that you wrote a hefty piece a minute ago. I will look into it. I love hearing about people’s adventures in the world of nonbelief!

  118. ednaz says

    collected animal @ 646 Thanks!

    broboxleyOT Well Done! *hee*

    Mellow Monkey

    So…I don’t have to worry about any praying.

    This is good. : )

    collectedanimal @ 649 Glad you got to that point with your parents.

  119. Asher Kay says


    Don’t feel you need to answer this, but I wondered whether Jim was aware of your atheism before you became involved.

  120. says

    It cannot be stated emphatically enough: RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING. In the space of the last 20 minutes, I got 2 emails from Jim. One expressed how much he needed emotional and physical attention from me.
    The other contained a comparison of homosexuality to the actions of Adam Lanza. I try to avoid expressing my extreme dislike of religion to Jim bc of his turmoil, and I am not mad at him per se. But I do draw the line when it comes to such comparisons.
    My response to him: I despise any system of belief thats teaches that the natural and non harmful expression of same sex attraction is the same as someone committing mass murder. I am quite willing to be cautious in my approach to someone who is clearly in a tremendous state on instability, but some things need to be stated firmly and without reservation.

  121. says

    Hello and welcome.

    I did read, and although no advice immediately occurs to me, I will certainly mention it if any comes up. Also, as others have said, you’re a good person.

    @praying family
    When I went to my Aunt’s house for Thanksgiving a few years back, I was amazed when she said grace, as I had totally forgotten that anyone in my family has any religious sentiment at all. She’s the only one who has any.
    The interview went well, I thought. It won’t pay anywhere close to all my bills even if I get the job, but at least it’s something.

  122. Portia says

    You underestimate my disdain for my grandpa. ;p he’s an old horse’s ass.

    I read your recounting of your exchanges with Jim and I applaud your efforts at thoughtfully and compassionately trying to get him through the fog. I don’t have a lot to add your insight but like Dalillama I will pipe up if something comes to mind.

    I’m glad the interview went well and that you’ll at least have some of the weight lifted if you get it. Best of luck.

    (I swear I did actually turn off my light and laid down my head. Five minutes later my radio went off with a med call. The paramedic was insisting after the call was over that the full moon makes calls happen. We cursed him on the way back to the truck… The patient will be fine in the end, his wife was a really sweet elderly lady who called us all sweetheart and honey. I wasn’t bothered after I heard her call the deputy honey too, ha).

  123. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    I’m still a bit too fuzzybrained and I don’t have enough time to read your whole comment about what you would like to tell Jim, but I think it’s brilliant of you to take the effort to help him.

  124. chigau (違う) says

    Azkyroth #664
    I met him not long ago.
    I suggested that beer is for old ladies (eg. me) and he should try screech.

  125. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Fuck. I forgot to take my melatonin earlier, again. :(

  126. says

    He was not.
    He knew only what I have as my profile info:
    ” I like people who have opinions and aren’t afraid to discuss them. I like talking to people and finding out their beliefs and *why* they have those beliefs. I’m interested in the psychology of human behavior, the intersectionality of various forms of discrimination, the efforts to move humanity towards social/economic/political equality, and I value evidence based (not woo) science as one of the best tools for understanding and exploring the world around us. I like to dance, eat, laugh, & cry.

    I need to be attracted to someone if we are going out or having sex. For that reason, I need to see”

    Nothing in there to indicate atheism, though if one is familiar with some the terms I used, I guess atheist is a possible assumption one could make.

  127. rq says

    Good morning (I can still say that!)!

    As I said before, if there’s a secular equivalent of saint (like a real one), you are probably It. I don’t have any good suggestions, mostly because I’ve never been in that situation so I don’t think I should even try to say anything…
    That being said, from what I’ve read of you here and around, I believe that you will find the right things to say to him, and in the right way. You have a wonderful way with comforting words, and while I know you won’t be able to change a life-time of attitudes and perceptions with a few emails (although, who knows?), I at least know that what you say will be of value and will, hopefully, make Jim think in a way that doesn’t diminish or shame him. So, *hugs* and good luck, and I hope for the best!

    AJ Milne @606
    Well, Point-au-Chene itself wasn’t the stomping ground – and it is of the blink-and-you’ll-miss-it variety – more of the key reference point for getting off the highway, but up in the hills (there’s a turnoff in -heh – downtown Point-au-Chene that goes straight up the mountain), out by the deer farm, there’s Ye Olde Latvienne Enclave where I spent lots and lots of summers. Beautiful colours in the autumn, some wonderful rapids along the Rouge River, and of course the power station down at that end now, but if you’re there in mid-July, you might see people dressed in strange clothing running about. Don’t worry, that’s the children’s camp (and they still do scavenger hunts / quest games about the Black Death and WWII and pollution, in addition to various fairy-tales and more benign topics… it’s a bit hard to explain).
    Anyway, haven’t been there in years. Really miss the place. *sigh*

    You are also up for secular sainthood. Just… Yes. :)


    Update on the eggs:
    First batch of red cabbage was useless (for blue) because I forgot we still had some white vinegar and added balsamic, so they were brownish initially. After the addition of some (local, potent) blueberries, they are now a mottled blackish grey (awesome colour).
    Second batch of red cabbage is in process, but so far, looks good. My camera phone is crappy, but I will take photos and try to put them up before we leave – if not, upon return! :)
    Anyhow, in case I don’t get a chance, again – good weekends and best of lucks to all! *hugs* *scritches* *drinks* *luck* …

    PS Tony
    I’ll take the prickly pear margaritas with me, they seem to suit my personality! ;)

  128. says

    Cross posted on my FB page but I am getting mostly emphatic pleas without any meat. Good info but am hoping to getter a better science based response here. This is my first post on FtB so picked the “safe” place! :-)
    I am struggling to get my head around GMO, Monsanto etc… I am all for protections of small farmers from big corporations but I am struggling with taking it further. I am also a fan of buy local and in season when possible (it tastes better and helps out my community). I am hoping I can get some thoughts on it here. It seems like we have food insecurity and I would imagine GMOs offer a way to help food grow in places that may not be naturally suited to it or yield more calories per acre. On the other hand, I see and hear concerns of creating frankensteins that cross breeds with more natural plants and screws up the food supply. I am struggling with the science of this. Any thoughts?

  129. Asher Kay says


    Hmmm. It would have been pretty danged clear to me….

    The reason I asked is that you said this:

    He turned to god and the church in the hopes of withstanding the urges he had.

    Which made me wonder — why did he turn to you? If he was (consciously or unconsciously) seeking something outside of god, it would have made me feel hopeful.

    Anyway. I don’t think I can offer much advice, but I do have a few thoughts.

    The thing I noticed about what you wrote is the recurring theme of impurity/guilt vs healthiness. Jim lets his “urges” build up, and then when he “gives in”, he seems often to specifically choose unhealthy or risky outlets, which just reinforces the conception that there’s something wrong with him, and that *anything* to do with being sexual has to also be unhealthy.

    It feels to me like his biggest challenge is finding a conception of himself in which the things he wants are healthy. That’s going to be the hardest thing, because, as you said, he may not have a real understanding what healthy even looks like (in relationships with others or with himself). I’m not putting this very well. I guess I’m trying to say that in the end, god doesn’t have much to do with it. God – for those who believe in him – is just an elaborate way of conceiving ourselves. Abandoning god is a huge step. Abandoning an idea of oneself as defective – even as a hypothetical exercise – is slightly easier.

    It also seems to me that some part of why he’s reaching out to you is that you represent someone with balance – someone who understands what “healthy” means. If anything, that’s what you can help him start to see. If he didn’t get to experience it growing up, he needs to *be around* it to start to grok it.

    All that said — it sounds like Jim may be in a place you can’t help him back from. If his tdoc is not working well for him, you might want to encourage him to find one who does.

    You sound like a very excellent friend to have around, Tony.

  130. carlie says

    Tony – I have thoughts, but it will take until tonight to have sufficient time to write them all down. My first quick thought is that you don’t need to tackle absolutely everything in one reply to him, even if it feels that it might be your only chance. It seems that right now what he needs is a friend. But I’ll save the explanation for later when I can write it right.

    Scott – Welcome to the Lounge!
    I think it’s impossible to take any technology and say it is entirely bad or entirely good (weapons of mass destruction and torture excluded). There are a lot of different kinds of genes that have been modified, and each has its own possible benefits and problems. For example, adding in a gene for frost resistance to a wheat crop in Saskatchewan? Fantastic! Adding in a gene for self-sterility to a disease-resistant yam being sold in Nigeria so that farmers can’t save and hybridize it on their own? Greedy and morally bankrupt. Adding a gene to a fish that makes them grow bigger faster and win all the matings but they have crappy eggs and sperm so all the matings result in almost zero offspring? Global ecological disaster waiting to happen.

    So I have little tolerance with people who say either “gmos are great and will save the world” or “gmos are horrible and will destroy the world”. It’s just a method, depends on what you do with it.

  131. carlie says

    Another fun easter egg dye – hard boil eggs, then crack them all over but don’t peel off the shell, then immerse in the dye and let dry. When you peel them, the egg inside will have a spidery colored pattern all over. (yes, this only works if you’re planning on eating them soon)

  132. carlie says

    There is a chipmunk in the garage.

    It is chirping. I assume it’s a male telling everyone else to stay the hell away from his garage.

    It sounds like the fifth one down here.

    Poor Child 1 can’t sleep late even though he has the day off of school because his room is right next to it.

    I have an evil urge to play the recording very loud in his room to see how the chipmunk responds.

  133. Pteryxx says

    Tony: that’s an awful lot to tackle (and I’m task-saturated) but a few points. Seconding Asher Kay here:

    The thing I noticed about what you wrote is the recurring theme of impurity/guilt vs healthiness. Jim lets his “urges” build up, and then when he “gives in”, he seems often to specifically choose unhealthy or risky outlets, which just reinforces the conception that there’s something wrong with him, and that *anything* to do with being sexual has to also be unhealthy.

    Definitely. Along with the degree of prudery you mention (‘private parts’ and ‘doing stuff’ as an adult, without being cute about it, really?) and the buildup of “urges” which he hates and struggles to overcome, I wonder if he hasn’t also bought into the view of masturbation as ‘self-punishment’ and just hates himself more with every random erection. In my opinion (and you know the person, so take with a huge grain of salt) that hatred of anything sexual seems more fundamental a starting point than his religiosity per se, because at least in his interactions with you, the main purpose of Christianity seems to be as an aid in suppressing any sexual recognizance. I’d suggest not challenging his religion as the primary focus when what he really needs is a basic sex-ed and self-acceptance course like those for teenagers: looking at one’s body in the mirror, taking a hand mirror to look at one’s own parts, just practicing using the names for body parts in an everyday NOT porn-related way. (Knowing me) I’d suggest calling on Planned Parenthood for a recommendation; they really helped explain a lot of this to me back in the day. Also, maybe he’d benefit from speaking with a sex-positive Christian who can talk about sexuality as part of how God made him, rather than conflate gayness with godlessness (no offense meant). Maybe a UU pastor or someone known to the community there.

    Note that some counselors buy into the fundie Christian, sex-is-evil mindset – when he says he’s in therapy, he might be seeing a “therapist” who’s trying to help him suppress his sexuality or make an “ex-gay” out of him.

    One more, rather depressing note… Tony, given that he’s conflating just being gay with a mass murderer… take some precautions, dear one. It’s not unknown for self-hatred such as this to manifest in violence against sex partners, whether they be evil temptresses or godless gays. Please be careful with your personal info, have someone know where you are, all that fun stuff. You’re an amazing person and we’d all be the poorer if anything happened to you.

  134. Pteryxx says

    Tony, I missed this earlier:

    (I *suck* at this Ctrl-F feature that lets you look for specific key words, otherwise I would provide a link to my original post during Xmas holiday season of 2012, when I initiallly met Jim. It is not necessary reading, but it is relevant)

    Think there’s any significance that he’s spilling his guts to you right now, just before Easter, and then, just before Xmas, when those are the two biggest Christian-family-gathering holidays of the year?

  135. broboxley OT says

    Tony, on same sex attraction and religion. I am assuming some form of christian. Tell him that the laws of the old testament were meant for the jews only as part of a realestate deal. After all he doesnt have any problem eating bacon. Explain that if he asked a pastor why he is allowed to eat bacon without sin when the old testament forbids it, the same answer applies to all of the 642 laws of the old testament. No real laws in the new testament just admonitions.

  136. Pteryxx says

    For everyone, and for Jim via Tony: leaving this here (via Libby Anne who often writes about Christianity’s toxic views on sexuality).

    My Gay Christian Agenda

    The Bible has been used as a weapon to justify treating people of different racial backgrounds, different religions, women and LGBTQ people as less than human. As less than deserving of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. As a Christian, I readily concede that the Bible is full of disturbing verses (e.g. Proverbs 26:7, 1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Samuel 15:3, Psalm 137:9, Judges 19:25-28, Ephesians 5:22, 1 Peter 2:18).

    But as a Christian, I do not believe the Bible is The Word of God.

    I don’t worship the Bible. Worshipping the Bible is blasphemy. I worship God. God didn’t leave behind a book. She gave us the exemplary life and death of Jesus Christ for 33 years and then left us the Holy Spirit. I take my cues from Jesus and the Holy Spirit, not the Bible.


    I want to stand in my friends’ weddings without crying on the inside. I want to be able to look at my friends’ wedding pictures and be happy for them.

    I came out to my family four years ago (nothin’ but love)—I have another confession. I have a gay-Christian agenda: I want to marry my girlfriend. Legally.

  137. Portia says

    Didja know, Austin really is part of Texas?

    Only geographically, though, right?

    Welcome to the Lounge, Scott. I don’t know much about GMOs myself, but for a while I’ve felt the same way carlie does. What little I know is about how bad they are for biodiversity. Low biodiversity = bad. For reasons. That I can’t remember.

  138. says


    Didja know, Austin really is part of Texas?

    Have fun there, say hi to Aquaria, and kick Silverman in the shin for his billboards while you’re there….I’m following the twitter feed…

  139. Portia says

    My mom just called. She’s on her way from Michigan :D :D :D
    I’ll be around a lot less now this weekend. :)
    Sorry, I’ll try to seem less happy about that, haha

    It’s gonna be high fifties today. I’m gonna go for a bike ride.

    Woooooooo happppy daaaaay

  140. Pteryxx says

    and because I can’t even glance at Libby Anne’s blog without getting sucked in: she’s running a Judaism 101 series where an online panel of 10 commenters from various Jewish backgrounds chat and answer questions.

    From Judaism 101: Thoughts on Passover:

    To me, Passover was at the core of what it meant to be Jewish. It reminded us of the bad times, when everyone was against you, and it it reminded you that even if it was safe now it wasn’t safe for everyone (everyone in the world, not every Jew). It set you apart from others (eight days of no wheat products stands out at a public, 99% Christian school, especially one that has pizza party rewards) but not in a detrimental way. And it reminded everyone that activism was still necessary—if G-d looks after the Jews, which isn’t necessarily true, He certainly doesn’t look after other people. There was still oppression and slavery in the world and it was up to us, who “had been there in Egypt”, to work against all forms of slavery and oppression.

    That was honestly one of the hardest things about giving up on Judaism for me, was deciding not to observe Passover. My husband is not and never has been Jewish, so it was hard for him when I would take all the bread and such out of the house, and we don’t plan to raise our (future hypothetical) kids with any form of religion so it made sense to give it up. I still go to the family seder every year, but it’s more of a family reunion and less of a religious occurrence. The family that hosts it is also not very observant, so the seder part is kind of slap-dash and people rush through it fast to get to the food part!

  141. says

    Thank you for the compliments and feedback.

    Any assistance I offer Jim would be in text/email format rather than in person. He lives 300+ miles away. I do agree that he would benefit from a healthier view of sexuality even if he retains his religiosity. My aim, such as it is, is not to convert him, but to offer what help I can to help guide him to have a healthier view of sexuality. I will definitely look into Libby Anne’s blog. Thank you.

  142. Portia says

    Hehe Thanks Tony. I might be just a little stoked.

    Sidenote: facebook is more annoying on Good Friday than I remember. It’s really freaking annoying.

  143. Pteryxx says

    Tony: this is someone you’ve met in person, though? Again, you’re the one in this situation, you’re the one directly speaking with him, so I can only offer advisory information. Someone who fixated on a co-worker of mine spontaneously flew to the US to ‘surprise’ her at her workplace. It’s unlikely, true, I’m just suggesting to err on the side of caution.

  144. cicely (mumblemumble-SomethingHalf-Witty-mumblemumble) says

    Hekuki Cat: *pouncehugback*

    The funny thing is, the further you go looking for the truth, the further you leave religion behind.

    Well said, ednaz!

    Tony: I’m not going to do a point-by-point with your request for help with Jim (because on many of them, I’m at a loss for how to articulate what I think), but in respect to your point 2), maybe point out that, however much a religion claims to be set in stone, in reality, they also evolve (you may want to use “adapt” instead, if “evolve” is a loaded word for Jim)—they have to, or become extinct when their last worshiper dies (possibly from not adapting and being out-competed for followers by some other religion). So many examples are possible from Christianity alone, but if you think that might make him shy off, maybe use Ancient Egyptian religion as an example?

    It is also guilt and shame over sex in general.

    Which is cultural programming; and religiously-inspired-and-encouraged ignorance only makes it more mysterious, more “not to be spoken of in polite company”, and more misunderstood. His religious upbringing has deliberately denied him the knowledge that could help him sort out his feelings (physical and emotional), and the education part will have done the same to the extent that it is controlled by a religiously-biased curriculum. Not his fault—but correctible.
    Somewhere in here, maybe stick in the observation that just because cultural conditioning may make something seem squicky—eating Horses, to use a recent example—that doesn’t make it wrong, in any absolute, moral sense; that squickiness over gay sex acts is about on par with, say, squickiness over being elbow-deep in chicken guts.
    Tangentially (at least somewhat), is Jim aware that same-sex coupling is wide-spread through the animal kingdom? Might help with the “obviously unnatural” part of his programming.

  145. cicely (mumblemumble-SomethingHalf-Witty-mumblemumble) says

    Where are my manners?!?! Y’all’ll be kickin’ me outa the [Lounge], next.
    collectedanimal, Welcome In!

    rq: Looking forward to the egg pics.

    Scott Foreman, welcome in!
    I think some people are afraid that They will hybridise their corn with Squid Bits.
    Or, worse yet, Horse.

    (Knowing me) I’d suggest calling on Planned Parenthood for a recommendation; they really helped explain a lot of this to me back in the day.

    The possible problem I can see lurking here is that if his religous upbringing includes vilification of PP, that may shut him right down.
    However, the concerns about Tony’s safety are well made. Tony, listen to Pteryxx, y’hear? Inadvertent martyrdom is a poor career choice; don’t let anyone make that choice for you! Nor do you count as “Acceptable Losses”.

    Tell him that the laws of the old testament were meant for the jews only as part of a realestate deal. After all he doesnt have any problem eating bacon. Explain that if he asked a pastor why he is allowed to eat bacon without sin when the old testament forbids it, the same answer applies to all of the 642 laws of the old testament. No real laws in the new testament just admonitions.

    And furthermore, if his denomination excuses it as, “But the New Testament is a New Covenant!!!”, and therefore sins involving the eating of lobsters made of mixed fibers are Null And Void, then logically the whole damned thing should be considered Null And Void.

    Portia: Hurray! for your impending visit from your mom. I’m happy for you!
    (And I’m not just saying that, either!)
    :) :) :)

  146. Asher Kay says


    Wow, he’s got some knack for analogies. Geez. I wonder if he feels like the analogy applies to his partner as well as himself.

    After reading that, I feel like I was off-base. It seems like religion is the fulcrum in your communication with him. Shows what lurkers know ;).

    I really liked the approach you took about harm. That’s really the key reason why his absurd analogy doesn’t work. Who is harmed? If he says himself, then what — is he a serial killer of himself? The guilt/shame is the doorway to all the harm he’s doing himself. If he were able to bracket that, at least hypothetically, he’d be able to explore more healthy avenues.

  147. broboxley OT says

    FFS Trigger Warning!

    Racist ND Congressperson

    n my opinion, Kevin Cramer is the epitome of white male privilege. He did not come to the meeting with the intention to listen. He came with his own agenda. He made threats of violence towards my Tribal leaders, spoke of how dysfunctional our people are, and focused on how unfair the Tribal Court system would treat a non-Native offender. This man represents North Dakota on a national level. There are 5 reservations in North Dakota. From the way he spoke, he cares nothing of them, and in fact seems to think we are beneath him. It is 2013. One would think racism would not be as prevalent and blatant as those 30 minutes spent with Congressman Kevin Cramer proved to be. If he is comfortable speaking so openly against natives, it frightens me to think of how he speaks of us behind closed doors.

  148. opposablethumbs says

    Massively ‘rupt, but trying to keep up at least a bit with what’s going on.

    Tony, I just had to log in to say I think you’re an exceptional person. Not just with regard to Jim; you are so thoughtful and careful of people in all your interactions, and so generous with your time and energy. I suspect that just by being someone willing to listen, someone who doesn’t condemn him, and yet someone with a clear and strong sense of morality, you are already a significant force for good in Jim’s life. Even if he’s unable to take on board some of what you say, you are a living example to him that one can be a good and moral person, and be gay, and not hate yourself for it.

    I think you are spot on in what you say about being careful to sandwich your arguments between helpings of non-condemnation. He has been pretty extensively fucked over by his religious upbringing, it sounds like; I think talking to someone like you can only help. Whether he is able and willing to take your help and go with it remains to be seen, but I only wish everyone in a dark place (and in good places too!) was lucky enough to speak with someone like you.

    Wish I had something more concrete, but will come back to it if I think of anything.

    Hugs and awe of wonderfulness to Portia! And hugs to the great people that make up the Horde. I only wish that things get better for all those who need that. And that those who eat eggs get some beautiful big delicious ones!

  149. Pteryxx says

    …okay, that’s it. That’s the last damn I give about keeping harassment investigations in-house.

    *warning for harassment and retaliation*

    Shaking, I walked to the art office and reported this to my chairperson. I was being physically attacked, intimidated, bullied and harassed. I thought that, surely, something would to be done to these two people, that some action would be taken. I had been harassed and assaulted. The law had been broken twice. I was in a state of shock.

    The institution launched a so-called full-scale investigation where all of the faculty in the department were questioned. I was told to keep quiet about it until it had been completed. Several faculty reported to me that this was not the first time these two had been in trouble. My own attorney interviewed every faculty member and found the same information and also found that these two senior faculty were best friends. But the institution’s findings reported that nothing had happened. In fact, they began to launch an investigation into my background. I was hounded, harassed and totally ignored. Every day, my student display cases had garbage stuffed in them. No one would sit next to me in faculty meetings and I was not invited to departmental gatherings. I became a pariah. Then, the faculty committee tried to end my contract.

  150. says

    It seems like we have food insecurity and I would imagine GMOs offer a way to help food grow in places that may not be naturally suited to it or yield more calories per acre.

    that’s how it’s supposed to work in theory; in practice, it tends not to wark that way, especially with corporate-owned seed.

    Companies like Monsanto often don’t develop their “drought resistant” etc. varieties from scratch, but rather go into arid areas with long tradition of farming to sample their local varieties, and then use the drought-resistant traits from those in their new varieties; and then they trademark the traits. guess what effect that has on the folks who developed those traits the old-fashioned way.

    A very small variety of corporate-made “drought-resistant” or “high-yield” or whatever varieties isn’t really better than hundreds of local varieties. diversity is better, and corporate spread diminishes diversity. Think of how many different kinds of tomato there are at the chainstore, and how many different kinds you can buy from various granola-ish seed-banks etc.

    Unless the “high-yield” come from more efficient plant metabolism and/or more efficient edible-to-nonedible-part ratios, those plants tend to also deplete soil quicker/require more fertilizer. Which is obviously not good, given how much soil degradation there already is.

    Seed storage and exchange is very important for agriculture at or around the sustenance level. With hybrids or corporate patented seeds, you take a lot of independence away from people and instead make them dependent on the goodwill of a corporation; which also often tends to work as a monopoly in the area. also not good.

    And then there’s the problem of superweeds and superbugs created by bt and roundup ready varieties. And also these plants becoming superweeds when escaping into the wild (apparently rapeweed/canola has not just escaped from ND fields into the wild, it’s crossbreeding with wild varieties and with canola created by other companies O.o )

  151. says

    tl;dr version: GMO can work, but if it’s supposed to help instead of giving corporations a monopoly on the world food supply, it would have to be largely Open Source GMO

  152. says

    also, improved access to integrated pest management instead of going nuclear with ever-stronger roundup-ready and bt varieties of stuff, would probably also work better. ever-stronger superweeds (and RR coca, while we’re at it) are not really sustainable or a good thing

  153. Portia says

    Thanks cicely! :D

    Some Easter humor:
    “Hipster Jesus died for your sins before you did them.”

  154. UnknownEric is GrumpyCat in human form says

    Hipster Jesus had hundreds of disciples, but you haven’t heard of most of them.

  155. says

    Continuing what Jadehawksaid, there is very little indication that GMO crops offer significant benefits relative to local and heirloom varieties if farmers use integrated pest management methods and avoid monocropping. The latter is also essential as part of a sustainable farming practice.

  156. says

    We don’t want no stinkin’ trained medical professionals on our Board of Public Health, no sir. We prefer proven idiots like the national director for the Pro-Life America Network, Terri Herring.
    Link, with video as well as text.

    By any fair standard, Mississippi has some serious public issues. It’s the worst state in the nation for heart disease, worst for infant mortality, and nearly the worst for diabetes. Given this, it stands to reason the state would take its public board of health quite seriously….

    Gov. Phil Bryant has nominated staunch pro-life activist Terri Herring, national director for the Pro-Life America Network, to sit on the Mississippi Board of Public Health….

    Most of the members of the Mississippi Board of Public Health are medical professionals. Herring has no medical background and identifies herself as a “pro-life lobbyist.”

    Wait, it gets worse. The vacancy on the Mississippi Board of Public Health was going to be filled by Dr. Carl Reddix — a Tufts-education physician with a public health background, including getting a master’s degree in public health from Harvard, and doing his residency at Johns Hopkins.

    This guy was deemed unacceptable, and his slot on the Mississippi Board of Public Health is now going to an anti-abortion lobbyist who has no background in medicine.

    Dr. Reddix is black.

  157. says

    To be fair to the governor, racism probably isn’t the only reason they turned him down, though. He’s also eminently qualified for the post, after all, and that’s often enough all by itself for Republicans to give someone the boot.

  158. says

    racism probably isn’t the only reason they turned him down, though. He’s also eminently qualified for the post
    Quite true. We can’t be filling the boards that govern healthcare with intellectuals!

    Apparently Dr. Reddix also had something to do with coordinating abortion clinic operations with local hospitals. If problems arose during an abortion, Dr. Reddix thought a woman could be swiftly and efficiently transported to a hospital and be seen immediately by a specialist.

    Dr. Reddix did not perform abortions himself. His crime was improving healthcare by improving collaboration between facilities.

  159. says

    Whoops. I borked the block quote in #706. The block quote should end after “He’s also eminently qualified for the post.”

  160. says

    Anyone here a Biology student? I’m looking to dive balls deep into the field soon, and I’m interested in certain areas of study that really being jabbed at as of lately. I already have a BS in Environmental Communications, which is kind of a wildcard, but now I want BIOLOGY! I read a lot about it, but I’m not sure how to attack the academia part of it yet, as far as research.

  161. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Sometimes it is good do some research in areas outside of your expertise.

    The Redhead suffered a hemorrhagic stroke, but her doctor was worried about her cholesterol level (LDL ~120, wanting it below 100) meaning he thought a second stroke would an embolism stroke. But it turns out he is wrong (one example) as a prior hemorrhagic stroke is indicative of a strong likelyhood of another stroke being hemorrhagic. And low cholesterol values are linked to an increase in hemorrhagic stroke. There is some data linking low cholesterol to a slight increase in hemorrhagic stroke. (data 1, data 2)

    So, she decided not go on the cholesterol lowering meds as they were more likely to be detrimental than helpful.

  162. Brother Ogvorbis, Fully Defenestrated Emperor of Steam, Fire and Absurdity says


    Good news.

    Considering how fast the ‘state of the art’ for medicine changes, this doesn’t surprise me. I’m glad the Redhead’s doctor was open to learning something knew.

  163. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Considering how fast the ‘state of the art’ for medicine changes, this doesn’t surprise me. I’m glad the Redhead’s doctor was open to learning something knew.

    We see him Tuesday. I’m bringing the evidence.

  164. Brother Ogvorbis, Fully Defenestrated Emperor of Steam, Fire and Absurdity says

    Ah. Sorry, Nerd. Misunderstanding on my part. I hope the Redhead’s doctor is open to learning something knew.

  165. says

    Moments of Mormon Madness related to the Supreme Court hearings on DOMA and Prop 8: all this talk about equality and marriage has the mormons chasing their tails.

    I can’t make heads or tails of this article, but mormons are so in love with it that they are posting it on their Facebook pages and sending it out via mass email. Here’s an excerpt:

    Here I will explore why gay marriage, or the more legal terms of “genderless” or “equal” marriage, affects everybody. It has potential to redefine what it means to be a mother, a father, and a child. It places the rights of natural parents at risk. Genderless marriage may actually affect heterosexuals more than homosexuals, for it dismantles traditional family law and replaces it with a new paradigm of genderless union.

    Savvy legal minds once insisted that gendered marriage and genderless marriage could co-exist, that everybody could enjoy their rights without interruption or impedance. It is now obvious that such a utopia doesn’t exist. A loss of rights is already taking place. “Equal” marriage is not so equal after all….

  166. broboxley OT says

    Lynna, OM thanks for the updates from the morridor. I don’t seem to see the problem. “Marriage” is a religious term. Let the religious marry whomever they want. Let the civil unions be registered at city hall to get the government interference. “civil unions” should be totally undefined as to gender and quantity as it is a legal construct. So Harry can civil union bob, mary can civil union reginald, barb could civil union joe, bill and ted with the unwinding of such unions be stipulated in the union documentation. More of a recording of terms of contract. Of course tax law would need to be changed but not much else.

  167. broboxley OT says

    Best part of my idea in #718 is in a casual conversation
    “I’m married!”
    “yabbut I’m unionized”

  168. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Think its going to be long night for the Redhead. A standard 12-hour fast for the blood tests, but it include her sugarless cough drops. The coughing causes other problems, which is why she goes through several every night.

  169. broboxley OT says

    I lerv me some kennels
    wandering outside for a smoke
    “cmon man get back to the room”
    “dude, you bit my fuckin thumb dude”
    “yabut you are freakin out yer old lady she looks pissed” (daytime hotel worker)
    “dude, you bit my fuckin thumb dude”
    yay, fuckin kennels.

  170. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    There’s a banner of a kitty! With a jetpack! Please keep it after the conference is over!

    Oh, hey…

  171. carlie says

    Tony, about Jim:

    Most of the areas have been covered already, so I’ll just stick mostly with what my first thoughts were.

    Some things I think he needs a firm correction on (health relate matters), while others, I think he could benefit from knowing that he’s not a piece of shit.

    You can take this and shove it, but I’d suggest not doing any of the “corrective” material right now, not at all. You mentioned using the sandwich method, but there is a lot of criticism of it that suggests that the sandwich method doesn’t really work – once the negative is out there, the person discounts any good comments that come after it. He is so down on himself, and it’s so easy for him to fall into the negative part and fall really, really far, that criticism from you right now could be pretty devastating. He seems to like you enough that if he feels safe with you he’ll keep coming back, so I think you’ve got time to build him up first. His biggest problem is that his church is teaching him that everything connected with anything homosexual is bad, and that’s the thing to try to get at now. If you also tell him that something he’s done related to his feelings about men is bad, that’s just going to reinforce everything else.

    However, right now no matter what you say it’s kind of your word against his church and family’s, so maybe suggest that he really take a good look at gay families? Send him a few links to the photo galleries that have popped up every time a state legalized gay marriage, the ones that make you cry from all the happy couples and families of all ages. Send links to stories of gay families adopting children in need. (a href=””>here’s one that’s also sad). He needs to have his view of gayness normalized and, it sounds like, desexualized and recontextualized to being about more than sex. It sounds like you’ve been doing a good job with that, but give him more examples from other places too.

    That’s my two cents’ anyway, but I’m certainly not well-versed in this.

  172. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    I just watched two random episodes of Dawson’s Creek.

    Yeah, I don’t know why that happened.