Some of you know that there’s a small collection of self-satisfied sexist scumbags who complain endlessly and bitterly about Freethoughtblogs — they’re nothing to be concerned about, especially since they’ve neatly encapsulated themselves, like an abscess, and removed themselves from the conversation. But Ophelia did something amusing: she parenthetically called them out.
(They’re going nuts here these days, by the way. Hundreds of hits every day. Hi Justicar! Hi franc, hi gang. Sure you don’t want to call Greta Hawkins names on Twitter by way of a holiday?)
That’s not the really funny part, though: they replied in the comment thread! I immediately thought of this Calvin & Hobbes cartoon.
The last panel in particular is precisely accurate.
And boy did they miss the point. “We do not either say racist shit you lying liar from Liarville!!1”
That’s the point, you goons. You recognize racist shit when you see it, but you think sexist shit is just fine, indeed virtuous, and funny besides.
No brains at all.
low-hanging fruit.
If there’s a point out there that Tuvok et al. haven’t missed?
That would surprise me.
FTB is mostly what gets discussed on ERV’s Periodic Table of Swearing. Lots of play-by-play and color comments.
All teeth and digestive tract. Good descriptor for them.
AKA the worst haggis ever made
You mean they aren’t spending their time talking about all those important issues that sexism discussion is “distracting” us from? Color me shocked.
From Ophelia’s blog:
Oh my. ERVites? I’m gobsmacked by their commitment to being sexist idiots.
I know, very low hanging fruit. I was just surprised that they responded to one of the oldest tricks in the book. “Anyone there?” “Nope, not us.”
The slimepit is many things, but intelligent ain’t one of them.
I’m still extremely curious why NatGeo is OK with the slimepit threads. After stating they were going to hold blogs in their network to certain content standards (presumably nothing “controversial” like criticizing relgion. . I don’t know, PZ?) why is all the cunting and twatting and rapey-rapey joke-joking OK?
I’m asking seriously—I honestly don’t get it.
Perhaps the ones on the top of their heads?
The NatGeo administration is trying hard to be fair, I think. They may consider the old threads to be grandfathered in.
I think they also lack teeth, and while they’ve said “No, please don’t do X”, they don’t have any policies in place to enforce their rules.
Josh:
You aren’t the only one.
Society looks down on atheism but is blind to sexism. I’m not even criticizing it as intentional on NatGeo, just my guess is that no one spotted EVR either because of subject or because Pharyngula got so much more traffic.
“Fair?”
No. Sorry. Rampant misogyny and rape jokes aren’t OK. When they’re uttered now. When they were uttered in the past.
This isn’t a hard concept. No pass for them.
ING–NatGeo has been specifically alerted to the slimepit by means of a complaint (who it was I don’t know).
I’d also like to know why the threads at PharyngulaNG haven’t been restored. I have a fucktonne of links in my bookmarks to specific posts there, all of which are now useless.
@Josh
I’m guessing they’re impotent and don’t have their shit together to actually enforce any rules.
They won’t give a shit until people tell them that it bothers them. Maybe we should all start writing emails and collecting the worst of slime pitterdom? This thread might be a good place to collect the evidence.
I feel confident that if I just search for the word “cunt” a lot will come back from there, easily….
And since you mentioned it – it’s not just sexism, it’s outright libel, a lot of it. NatGeo is awfully lucky that I’m too sweet-natured (or lazy, is more like it) to sue.
@Ophelia
Ooooh but think of the click bait the controversy would make!
I’d join a letter writing campaign except I don’t read science blogs except for respectful insolence.
WITCH HUNTS!!!11!!1!!!
The inter-format copying scripts exploded in a giant fireball. NatGeo are still working on it.
I know, right? It’s just like a bunch of bullies trying to push someone to suicide. Thugs, all of them.
Is the slimepit archived somewhere? Vile as it is, it should be recorded as a stern warning for generations to come.
Also, is there any indication that Wally Smith (the You’re Not Helping / Tom Johnson slimeball) is participating? I don’t think that he was ever much of a misogynist (I may be wrong on this), but with three of his main enemies (Benson, Myers and Laden) firmly on the anti-slimepit side, the temptation would be there. Furthermore, “Gurdur”, who was of his biggest fans, is a keen slimepitter.
In my initial search I found a post where abbie calls another scientist a cunt. I realized that I don’t know if I really want to go through all of that. I’ve been reading about porn/prostitution again and there is only so much shit I can take in a week. Hopefully there are pharyngulites with more patience than I at this point.
Ophelia has a good point about the libel at ERV too. natgeo they might care about that.
I’ve gotten some hits from the periodic table of swearing, but didn’t really want to go over there after the trolls that got sent my way from it. What does it consist of?
Oh, ha! Brilliant!
No one has accused the Slimepitters of being smart, after all.
@Skeptifem
I can’t say as I have the stomach for it now, but Rorschach did collect a few choice quotes on his blog a while back.
Watching ERV types scramble to defence over at Butterflies only to be further disseminated here at Pharyngula, is like watching shit get owned by two opposing cinder blocks. It’s messy, but it’s fascinating to watch at the same time.
Ophelia Benson:
Didn’t Abbie Smith say that Jen McCreight was getting through grad school on account of her being pretty? Accusing a university of allowing students to get degrees by underhand methods isn’t just a nasty allegation, but plain libelous. If The University of Washington’s lawyers were to write to National Geographic, then Abbie would almost certainly be kicked out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if something like this happens in the next few years. Abbie will tell a lie too far, and someone will hit back.
Why why why why why did I go over to ERV and look at that “Periodic Table of Swearing” post? Why? Why do I put myself through such annoyance?
Scented Nectar and Justicar are talking about making anti-RW buttons that say things like “Hi, I’m Elevator Guy” and “Elevatorgate Team Dawkins” and selling them.
I hope they do! I like it when idiots label themselves.
Maybe they could get tattoos?
They’re also planning a range of custom upskirt cameras, with a “you’re bullying me with false allegations” caption.
-_-
Because Watson doesn’t have enough bullshit to deal with.
And we’re the bullies.
wow gross merchandise.
Abbie apologized and walked that snark back, according to Jen. (Via Twitter, IIRC.)
I have to second Ophelia’s point, it is good that the slime pitter are so willing to label themselves. It makes it easier to spot and avoid them.
I’ve read that a number of hardworking scientists now hypothesize that Elevator Guy meant that he wanted to invite Rebecca to have coffee in his hotel room the next day as opposed to right then and there.
Very valid point.
I personally think that EG meant that he wanted to invite her to his parent’s place at quarter past five on Boxing Day (assuming that it’s not too rainy or snowy) to drink coffee in his old boy room.
I think he invited her to coffee three hundred years from now, in his quarters on the Starship Enterprise.
RahXephon—every time I see your ‘nym I hear “previously on St. Entitlement’s”. Love it.
Previously, on St. Entitlement’s…
Nurse Ladyperson:*steps onto elevator* Hello, Dr. Niceguy!
Dr. Niceguy: Hello, Nurse! Say, would you like to come by my office for some coffee?
Nurse Ladyperson: No thank you.
Dr. Niceguy: *looks horrified*
DUH-NA-NAAAAAAAH!
—
Nurse Knight: Oh my god, what happened to Dr. Niceguy?!
Dr. Beta: We found him on the elevator. I’m afraid it’s…*takes off glasses* Hurt Pee-Pee Syndrome.
Nurse Knight: I’ll get the soothing cream!
I can’t be the only person who thought of Animaniacs upon seeing that.
I said as much over there, but I’m hearting Julian so hard for this.
People who have some kind of allergy to “coarse” language, don’t click through.
These threads are clearly a sign of deep rifts in the community. Can’t we all get along?. Okay everybody say “I’m Sorry Nanny” and hold hands while we sing a soothing chorus of Kumbaya. /Nanny
(doncha hate it when you bork a link in this and can’t fix it? )
What would Paul Myers know about trolling, other than he looks like he lives under a bridge!
Jonathanbishop: HAHA I’ll show you *smashes own face with a brick* LOOK HOW STUPID AND UNWITTY I LOOK *SMASH SMASH SMASH* HAHA YOU SURE LOOK SILLY NOW *SMASH SMASH SMASH*
Over at the Rationalskepticism forum they built a nice little echochamber thread (http://www.rationalskepticism.org/nontheism/atheism-and-feminism-or-watson-v-dawkins-t23650.html). I’ve given up posting there because I always feel like I’ve fallen into a cess pit.
@Rolfschmidt
Why should I care now?
From rolfschmidt’s link, comment page 214 :
I wish people still had hobbies.
“We Are Ing The Matrimonial Collective” – Yes you are right – you do look stupid. That is why you spend all your time on PZ Myers’s blog!
@Dzon
Learn to read, jackass
“We Are Ing The Matrimonial Collective” – Jackass is a movie you stupid dimwit, you watch it! Unless of course you’re so unwittingly stupid you need to watch it in slow motion with subtitles!
Dzon is Jonathan Bishop. Warning: Sockpuppetry will get you banned.
Lol y u mad, bro? Your strategy of winning by losing is doomed to failure. You bore me and don’t want to play with you. sorryktnx
Comment by Dzon blocked. [unkill][show comment]
@PZ Myers – just because you are so incompetent you can’t program WordPress to update old posts with the most recently selected Display Name (I have a choice of 3), you shouldn’t accuse people of Sockpuppetry. I guess they don’t do WordPress on your biology courses, as you are still trying to get them past the practical on getting ants out of trees with sticks!
Wow, Dzon, you remind me of a warm Summer’s Eve.
/crankiness
Bishop is clearly gearing up for an evening of trolling. Dealt with with a preemptive banhammer tap.
Heh.
Following avidly is the slimepitters’ little raisin date, and obliviousness their solace.
PZ, i’ve been your devout reader for years, and this feud you are taking part in is extremely frustrating for me. In-group out-group dynamics does not help the cause. Any of our probably shared causes, in fact, be it promotion of reason and science, free thought, feminism, social justice.
I would very much like to see a polite debate on the issues that supposedly were at the heart of this feud, like what constitutes sexual harassment and what doesn’t, but i’m afraid that in this climate it became impossible, which is a shame.
Please don’t consider this as an attack, i only write this in hope that you will find it in you to stop adding to the fire and start thinking how to mitigate the damage this feud is doing to reputations of everyone involved. I don’t ask you to suddenly become friends with people you now so despise, i suppose it’s too late for that. I just want to be able to read your blog without constantly being reminded of all this unpleasantness.
“I’d like to kick her in the cunt”
Please tell me what civil discussion can be had here?
http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/06/23/an-open-letter-to-the-tone-troll/
Oh, poor fucking Grigory. Can’t fucking read a blog he likes without being reminded of “all this unpleasantness.”
Wanna know what I can’t do without being reminded of misogyny?
FUCKING ANYTHING.
Spare us your privileged fucking whining.
Careful, this titan of thought is clearly like to think the problem is merely in the use of the word ‘cunt’…
It’s not a feud. Feminism and social justice are not shared goals in this case.
Oh please. Could you possibly be more ignorant? There is no polite debate to be had. You have a group of people solidly committed to defending the most toxic sexism and supporting harassment and threats. You have people who are planning to market specific sexist merchandise. And all you can do is whine about how reading about it all is upsetting to you?
In all sincerity, fuck right off. Fuck yourself right off the nearest cliff, Cupcake.
The mere fact that you bring up a “polite debate” in light of the history here is enough to tell me that anything you have to say is utterly worthless. This is our lives we are talking about, what we get to deal with every fucking single day, not some internet debate where every one is veddy veddy polite and sipping on tea while having a chat. FFS.
People have been threatened. People have been lied about. People have been harassed. We’ve been called cunts, twats, bitches and that’s the light side of it. We’ve been told to “just get over it” in regard to experiences of being raped or stalked or assaulted.
If you’re so damn delicate*, Grigory, I suggest you get off the fucking internet right now. You might want to consider just hanging out in your closet, too, so you don’t accidentally experience any unpleasantness.
*I don’t think you are, given the enormous amount of narcissistic, belly button gazing nerve it took to ask PZ to stop writing about a subject you simply don’t care to read about. Here’s a protip: if you don’t like reading about something, stop fucking reading it. Fuckwit. Here’s a suggestion for you, Grigory: why don’t you run off to ERV and tell them you’re tired of all this, and you no longer wish to read about it.
Wow. Okay, here’s the thing: I continue to read here in part because of PZ and the Hoard’s reputation for never, ever, compromising on sexism. That reputation is a feature, not a bug.
let me be among the last to say that Jonathan Bishop is one weird dude
“We Are Ing The Matrimonial Collective”:
I’m not a tone troll. I wouldn’t be reading PZ for years if i was. I just find this particular discussion extremely nauseating, not so much because of the tone, but because of the lack of substance. Instead of the actual issues that sparkled it, i see long discussions of “he said she said he said … in comment #xyz”, full of name calling, gross representations and random accusations thrown at innocent bystanders like me.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy:
I gladly read PZ’s posts on actual instances of misogyny. I also do not consider my self privileged (what gave you that impression?) and i’m not whining. I’m expressing my opinion, and i think PZ needs to hear what some of his less vocal readers have to say.
Caine, Fleur du mal:
What makes you think that i don’t share those goals?
That’s a perfect example of the damage this feud is doing. Everyone is forced to take sides. If you are not one of “us”, you are one of “them”.
It took me a few days of reading just to browse through the history of this feud. I think i’ve learned enough about it to wish i haven’t wasted my time on it.
The reason i don’t run off to ERV is i am not a reader of that blog. Until yesterday i didn’t even know about its existence.
Also, guys, could you all please stop talking to me, i was addressing PZ, not asking for an angry lynch mob.
Yeah about that…do you actually read or just look at the pictures?
Grigory Chudov:
I’m not doing X but….
and you do X.
2nd sentence: You’re wrong in that regard then. Also, see above about how you’re lying.
It’s easy for you to paint it as us squabbling over some nonsense, but in this case, there is the toxic sexism you seem to want to defend by whining about this sort of thing.
And this is why you’re not sharing those goals. If you want us to believe that, stop dismissing it.
That’s the name of the game here. We’re not all going to shut up just because you’re all butthurt about being ripped into.
In conclusion, you are a fuckwit. Go take a porcupine, fuck yourself, and never return unless you have something intelligent to say.
Grigory:
Then you should have posted him an email rather than comment on a post, no?
(Weird how a devout reader for years hadn’t noticed the commentariat’s predilection for responding)
could you all please stop talking to me, too?
Grigory, you clearly don’t understand the concept of privilege. One of it’s main features is to make one blind to the aspects of society that one has privilege in. Cain was trying to explain how she doesn’t have the privilege of reducing this ‘debate’ to some kind of polite discourse. This is not an intellectual exercise for her, or for any other woman for that matter, because sexism is doing real harm, personal harm, and as such needs to be opposed in the strongest possible way.
At this point you have two options:
1)Read this handy link on the topic of privilege. Digest that, educate yourself, and then come back here and try to defend your comments. Or:
2)Take this internet shovel and dig yourself in deeper to the amusement and fang sharpening of the hoard.
Your choice.
Indeed John, I had that thought too. Mind you, a charitable reading could be that he’s only ever read PZ’s posts and never ’til now bothered with the comments.
There is an invention called “EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIL” I hear it’s quite popular and allows one on one communication. There’s even a contact info on the side bar
And you’re qualified to decide what “actual instances of misogyny” are how?
You have just demonstrated that you are in fact too ignorant to engage with on this subject. Go educate yourself. Other people have provided links. I’ll add another.
The fact that it’s your opinion doesn’t make it any less privileged whining. Shove it up your ass.
You regressives are always ‘less vocal’, aren’t you? It can’t be that you’re, y’know, wrong, no no, it must be all those oppressive tribalistic liberals being all…liberal and tribalistic. The fact that there is a preponderance of one opinion can’t possibly mean that opinion is more sound or valid, we just don’t understand the need for diversity of ideas! All of that evidence you’re being shown? ASSUMPTIONS! ALL OF IT!
That’s not true at all? LIES! SLANDER! We need to provide some balance to counter all this liberalism!
And FSM forbid that we actually go on the offensive and call out regressive bullshit for what it is. Why, that’s even more mean and rude and tribalistic! And negative! We shouldn’t go negative, because that’s a bad thing! You’re going to scare off everyone who doesn’t have a fully-formed opinion, and we can’t have that!
Yeah, we liberals have such a huge problem with being open-minded, because we apply all these liberally biased rules to discussions, like having to use logically sound and valid arguments. Why, that’s so unfair, I think I might just abandon liberalism and become a centrist!
Okay, Chas *nods*
Lynch mob? Really?
Here, let me show you something. THIS is what a lynch mob does.
What’s happened to you here? You’ve been vehemently disagreed with. Argued with. And yes, insulted, not without cause.
One of these things is not like the other…one of these things just isn’t the same…
(PS. Link in that post could be EXTREMELY triggering.)
Stop attacking Grigory. Can’t you see how moderate and superior he is?
Whatever you may think about ERV and the bunch, Ophelia’s attack doesn’t reflect well on her and is uncalled for.
Then you have been lying. You cannot have been reading Pharyngula for years as you claim and not be aware of ERV.
Again, you are lying. Had you wanted to communicate with PZ in private you would have emailed. Instead you posted your complaint in a public forum. As such you have no right to complain when other reply to you.
I would also suggest you learn what a lynch mob is. That way you might not make such an idiot of yourself comparing people taking issue with your dismissal of opposition to sexism and misogyny as being a feud with the extra-judicial killing of blacks.
I hear you Grigory Chudov !
Also read the blog for meny years, PZ was my hero.
Pharyngula has become a horrible place for normal human beings.
“If you cant joke about it you cant take it serious” a wise man once said.
Well i joke about everything so i clearly dont belong here.
Ohhh yea, and in the spirit of you all.
Fuck you !
Ah yes, calling misogynist bigots on their bigotry is such a heinous attack. Fuck off.
homerhemp:
I would take it that you’re claiming that you find this a horrible place, were it not that I am assured by you that you are joking.
1. Which wise man, and when, and why is this relevant?
2. If you are joking about everything, clearly this is a joke.
Since you joke about everything, this is a joke.
Only if “normal human” means “misogynist bigot”. Oh, and as to your disappointment in PZ: here’s a tissue, and a porcupine. One goes in your eye, the other your ass, which goes where is of course entirely up to you.
The only way you have a private response to PZ is to e-mail him. Anything you post is fair game for anybody. And polite debate is code words for I’m a bigot and want to express and defend that bigotry, and don’t want to face the consequences…
Two tone trolls in the same thread. How sweet. Maybe they could spend their time explaining to each other why the other isn’t expressing the proper way to get the commentariat to stop being so uncouth.
Calling this an “attack” rather than a response to months of demonization, disgusting insults, veiled threats, and general slime being poured on her from the ERVites doesn’t reflect well on you and is idiotic.
Hmm. Interesting claim. This is, by and large, a pretty good place for me. Better than most, anyway. So go ahead and tell me how I’m abnormal. It’ll be fun! I’m waiting.
And yet here you are, posting on this public blog instead of e-mailing PZ in private.
Translation:
Take your hypocrisy and stuff it, Chudov.
The rest of your post makes it pretty obvious you don’t have the foggiest clue what a “normal” human being actually is.
FTFY
Grigory the Fucking Dumbass Tone Troll:
Aw, poor diddums. Getting accused of tone trolling when you introduced yourself with a textbook case of it! What is the world coming to?
Read FossilFishy’s link about male privilege if you haven’t already done so.
Funny, but we’ve had a lot of “less vocal readers” chime in over the last year or so and thank PZ and the commenters for opening their eyes.
Whining about how “unpleasant” the misogyny discussions are? Yeah, that really convinces me you give a fuck about women’s rights. So does whining about how you “wasted [your] time” reading the history of this so-called “feud.”
Damn straight. You see, asshole, my basic human rights are not something that people can “politely disagree” on. If you are opposed to them, you’re on the wrong fucking side, and you deserve to be shamed.
Go look up “white privilege” as well, because — as Flewellyn and others have pointed out — it’s pretty fucking offensive for you to compare the shellacking you are deservedly getting, and which is entirely within the rules of this blog, to black people being hunted down and strung up for the entertainment of white people.
Setar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_majority
Dvizard, thanks for your concern.
HomerHurp, your subliterate ass won’t be missed here.
Holey fucking Hell! Are you for real?!
I’m a less vocal commenter (outside TET, at least) and I want to hand all the regulars bouquets of flowers for never taking any fucking bullshit.
The Santa at the Mall you met when you were twelve was not “a wise man”
FTFY. if having to treat people who are not straight white men with decency is such a chore for you, go back to the slimepit. there, you don’t even have to have a focus for your hate, you just have to hate. Have fun!
“I can afford to not care about these matters because they don’t affect my life, so I’m going to look down on the people who ARE affected for not being dispassionate like me!”
I wish there was a way to punch people through the internet. I would practice my left hook everyday just to use on empathy-free assholes like you.
Seriously? Sometimes it amazes me that people are so fuzzy on what constitutes harassing or even reasonably polite behavior. Sigh. It’s the difference between caring about what’s right and actually okay versus sticking to the letter of the law or arguing for excuses for scummy behavior.
Reminds me of when this guy asked me to change the subject from how women are often worried about rape and harassment, because it was too depressing for him and he would prefer to hear it some other time. Yeah, I know.
Fossilfishy:
Here’s a sniny internets for you. So nice of you to offer options to the poor sap.
Ing:
Oh man, there goes my book of sayings… fuck! Sorry, though, I already gave today’s internets away.
I’d love to see one of these fucking idiots post that exact same bit of stupid at the slimepit, read the replies, then come back here and complain about the tone….. dumbfuck trolls.
QFFT