The other day, I wrote in some bafflement about the North Carolina legislature trying to write sea-level rises out of existence — it was like trying to legislate the value of pi, and I had a hard time believing anyone would be so stupid.
But I should have known. There are no lower bounds to stupid. This plan to bury real-world problems in redefinitions and disguising the language? It’s a thing. Now Virginia is doing it, too.
Virginia’s legislature commissioned a $50,000 study to determine the impacts of climate change on the state’s shores. To greenlight the project, they omitted words like “climate change” and “sea level rise” from the study’s description itself. According to the House of Delegates sponsor of the study, these are “liberal code words,” even though they are noncontroversial in the climate science community.
Instead of using climate change, sea level rise, and global warming, the study uses terms like “coastal resiliency” and “recurrent flooding.” Republican State Delegate Chris Stolle, who steered the legislation, cut “sea level rise” from the draft. Stolle has also said the “jury’s still out” on humans’ impact on global warming.
The sea level is rising. But you can’t say that in a Republican universe.
“Paying attention to reality”
is also a liberal codephrase.
I’ll bet this is an ALEC thing:
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
North Carolina and Virginia are both in a tight spot. They both depend on the tourism their coasts bring, so they know they have to prepare for the impact climate change is going to have, but their allegiance to ALEC and the religion of teabaggerism prevents them from publicly admitting that it’s even happening. It’s like trying to escape from a burning building while insisting that there was no fire.
Well-known liberal bias!
This probably has something to do with money. Property values or insurance or future Federal disaster money or something. Why create laws for pure stupidity when you can tack on greed and evil, for free?
Maybe they should call it chronic ‘tidal miscommunication.’ But I suppose Bill O’Really would object to that.
It’s not stupid at all.
It’s greed. Follow the money!!!
In North Carolina, most of the coastline is sinking due to something about the glaciers melting up north.
The sea level is rising and the current consensus is a rise of 3-6 feet by 2100.
There are a lot of moneyed interests who want to develop the coast. Houses, beach houses, condos, resorts, golf courses, amusement parks, the usual vacation development.
It is going to be a harder sell if everything ends up underwater a few decades down the road due to geology and climate trends.
So what!!! By the time that happens, the money will have been collected, spent, and the developers and legislators will be mostly dead.
The principal here is a common one.
Spend financial and ecology capital now and create problems.
Let your kids pay the bills and fix them.
raven – agree with you about NC. The Virginia story is very small, but appears to a slightly less crazy. Whereas the NC legislators are rigging the scientific methodology to deny their beach is going to move at all, the VA Beach area legislator appears to honestly want to know how his constituents’ beach is going to move. He just doesn’t want to call it sea level rise or climate change out of political loyalty.
I live in Northern Virginia. Most of us up here are simply embarrassed by the rest of the state. Aside from enclaves of reason, most of the rest of the state is as ignorant as the Carolinas or Alabama.
The problem is that American politics have gone so far off the rails that reality does actually have a liberal bias.
The Republican party has become so wedded to Christian fundamentalism that acceptance of the real world is an expression of liberal sympathies.
What are they gonna say when reality bites them in the ass? (Actually it already is.)
I am very proud of my state. It takes a lot of courage to take the step from denying reality to actually legislating that denial. In the future I am sure the Republicans down in Richmond will be admired for the steps they are taking to forestall the hysterical peddlers of reality and their agenda of preparing for the future.
and:
It turns out the Virginia coastline is sinking too.
The real danger here isn’t just the sinking coast and rising sea levels.
It’s those plus a big hurricane. North Carolina can expect one category 5 Katrina class hurricane every century. According to my reading, the last one in the 1950’s pretty much erased most of the development right along the coast of North Carolina.
They are 0 for 1 and going for 0 for 2, I guess.
Not if those jebus-loving, north carolinian legislature guys can pass laws outlawing hurricanes. They are just theories, you know, and there is some on-going controversy about them.
Oh yes there is! IQ = 0, the IQ of a lump of rock. The Republicans in the North Carolina Legislature seem to be almost there.
But actually, their stupidity is willful stupidity, whereas rocks don’t do anything, stupid of otherwise, so Republicans may score on the negative side of the scale
It’s all about the money. From Virginia Beach down to Ocracoke Island there are thousands of vacation homes and hotels that sit just a few feet above high tide, so any thought that the sea might be rising is anathema to the local real estate industry. How can you sell a beach front home to some rube from Minnesota if he thinks that in 20 years there will be a ten foot high breakwall between his porch and the ocean? Or worse, no beach at all. Even now whenever there’s a major tropical storm many low lying parts of Hampton Roads floods and the OBX barrier island gets cut in more than one place and it can take weeks to rebuild the two lane road. So, it’s no surprise to me that NC and VA are now using their own sneaky code words to obfuscate the truth. Don’t expect the states, the realtors or the landowners to ever utter words sea level rise to a prospective buyer. If the sea levels were to rise by as little as one foot, expect to see growing panic set in on the OBX.
So Bill O’Reilly was wrong then? In the right wing world, the tides DON’T come in.
The basic idea behind all climate change denial is simple economics. A lot of Virginian voters, tax payers and prominent people have coastal properties. If climate change and the rise of sea level were generally acknowledged as facts of reality, the properties would immediately lose most of their market value. It’s a financial nightmare. So, the owners of the coastal properties try everything to deny the problem until they have liquidated these assets.
To these property owners, the financial catastrophy is imminent, while the environmental catastrophy is hazy future. And even by then, they will have their property and assets relocated and reinvested. That’s capitalism. When someone figures out how to make serious money with climate change, the republican denial ends.
The coast of the Carolinas were hit with 8 hurricanes in the 1950’s.
An 18 foot storm surge, 600 dead, damages of 3-6 billion USD in current dollars. For one storm.
Not sure what the plan is here for NC. Looks like it is to take the money and literally, run. I wouldn’t want to live in low lying areas when the next large hurricane hits. You can lose your property which is unfortunate. You can also lose your life which is even worse.
Are you sure? Because I swear I’ve come across (not in *that* sense, keep your dirty mind under control) people with negative IQs.
Looks like bobfoster beat me to stating the obvious financial facts. But anyway, the Republicans of Virginia are not stupid. Devious, greedy and criminally unscrupulous perhaps, but not stupid.
It’s easy, because they only have to frame it as, “In the future, we may have to do even more artificial beach nourishment”. Since most people are ignorant of, in denial about, or simply do not speak of what the coastlines of the Anthropocene are really like already.
Of course, there will come a point where the sea will be coming in much further inland, and there may be issues with real estate development and tourism if sea level rise is acknowledged before it is knocking on people’s back doors. Or rooves.
That is next. It is so easy.
1. An insurance company writes a lot of policies for coastal properties. And receives continual income every year. Which is moved offshore to Bermuda, Switzerland, or the Caymans.
2. A hurricane causes billions in damages.
3. The insurance company can’t pay and declares bankruptcy.
4. The federal goverment bails everyone out in TARP II.
5. Profit!!!
IIRC, this is more or less what one of the largest insurance companies in the USA has already pioneered. AIG.
I have met Delegate Chris Stolle. He was my delegate until the most recent redistricting. I think everybody would be better off if Dr. Stolle would quit politics and go back to practicing medicine full time. Now, if only a majority of voters in his district agreed…
raven #7
I’m reminded of Sir Boyle Roche’s famous statement:
I would like to say that this is a case of simply believing that the solution to a serious issue with vast reprecussions for our entire species is to ignore it. A short-sighted, stupid attitude, to be sure, but not an uncommon one.
It would be bad enough is this was a case of ostriches sticking their heads in the sand being a myth, but Republicans doing it being an observed behaviour.
But that would be giving the Republicnas too much credit – it is worse than that.
I think that the Republican dominated North Carolina and Virginia legislatures are very much aware that the scientific case for anthropogenic climate change is irresistably strong; and they just don’t care. All they are interested in is maximising profit in the (relatively speaking) short term, confident that when it comes time to really start paying the piper for their irresponsible, greedy policies, they will be safely dead.
They are cynically mortgaging the future of our species in return for the metaphorical thirty pieces of silver. So long as they can generae the cash from petrochemical revenues, and leverage that wealth into political power, over the course of their own lifetimes, then they care not at all for the horrors they are storing up for the future.
Darn it – always read the thread before posting.
Apologies for the tautology.
Next up, Rick Scott signs Florida’s new “Thoughtcrime Is Double-Plus-Ungood” legislation.
I’m feeling cynical this morning, so it wouldn’t take too much to convince me that the modern-day Republican party interpret “1984” as an operations manual, rather than a dire warning.
Virginia, the new North Carolina. North Carolina, the new Texas. Texas…well, at least it’s permanent in its shittiness.
raven — You’re spot on the money, once again.
I’m just waiting for the other coastal Southern states to chime in on this BS, because the South is so strong on the intelligence meter. South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas have plenty to loose.
And then there’s Florida. Florida is huge, of course. Not only are the broad coastal areas under threat, but Florida from Orlando south is barely above sea level as it is. In relatively recent geological times, the entire region has been under water. And this isn’t just a threat to potential development. We’re talking Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Ft. Meyers, Tampa…billions upon billions upon billions of dollars.
Speaking of threats to already developed areas, Virginia may have more to loose than North Carolina. I think most of NC’s big cities are well inland, but the low-lying area around Norfolk/Newport News is very heavily developed. Bye-bye enormous USN facilities and all the people who live there to support it.
A central part of the republican platform for years has been the denial of global warming back to before Al Gore. A lot of their funding and the push legislatively has been energy production. “Drill baby drill”. Reality does not depend on belief in any way the results of the the global warming (that is not happening) is the sea level rise that happening. So they have painted themselves into a corner they can not admit that they were wrong about this, they fear that if they did the voters would realize that maybe they should vote them out of power, but they know that they have to act. Wait till voters begin to realize that the conservative ideology does not cope with changing conditions or changing understanding very well. They will have to change all the definitions of the terms they have been using to sound relevant.
this is becoming low farce
uncle frogy
“it was like trying to legislate the value of pi, and I had a hard time believing anyone would be so stupid.”
It’s been tried:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
Obviously, the ocean didn’t get the message when I punched it last year.
Even though King Canute (or Cnut or Knut) mistakenly thought there was a god that could hold back the tides – not unusual for the 11th century – he had a point when he deliberately demonstrated to his courtiers that no amount of commanding it to be so would stop the waves from rolling in.
Of course, as pointed out above, it won’t matter to the GOPsters (a mere thousand years later) that they choose to ignore all that science has advanced since the king got his feet wet, as long as they all get their money out in time.
Two states who with Orwellian legislation that tries to shape reality with words.
Louisiana wants to privatize an already beleaguered public education system.
10 (?) states have laws forcing a woman to get an ultrasound if she wants an abortion.
46% of Americans don’t believe evolution is true. More Americans believe Obama is a muslim (16%), witches exist (21%), and the sun revolves around the earth (22%) than believe in evolution unguided by god.
And SOME people thought that bloody show on mermaids was a real documentary.
Does anyone doubt this country is fucked?
This is not stupid.
Being frank would be stupid.
Saying “we fucked up soon the planet ressources won’t suffice to feed everyone and we refuse to change our way of life so the day it becomes unavoidable we’ll just slaughter the third world and openly steal their stuff” is stupid: it’s publicly admitting that one plans to feed themselves by plunder and it’s giving the aforementioned third world and people who have sympathy for them early warnings and time to prepare and arm themselves in order to kick one ass.
Saying “Science is a liberal conspiracy, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr, we do not need to change our lifestyle, rrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrr” is playing dumb: which is an excellent and smart camouflage strategy.
But…but…you liberals just don’t understand. America is a democracy! We get to vote on how we want things to be! We have a right to our opinion. That makes our opinion right!
The majority have the right to vote that CreoID is really science. We have a right to vote away the constitutional rights of people we don’t like, like gays and Muslims and atheists. We have a right to vote on how scientists conduct research on how high the ocean can get.
Why do you liberals hate democracy so much?
(Umm, the above is sarcasm…..)
Steve Benen weighs in on this new form of conservative political correctness:
Rebecca Leber at ThinkProgress writes:
From the comments below Leber’s article:
Well, raven, they’ll be just fine if they kick out all of teh gayz. That’s Pat Robertson’s thinking and he’s never wrong. Wait…
Paul Krugman made some interesting comments about the new, strangely twisted political correctness.
Of all the Republican lies, the claim that they want small government is the most insidious of them all. If you inconvenience the rich and powerful in even the smallest way, they will make life very difficult for you. This ranges from women and gays offending the sensibilities of fundies to climate scientists bringing up uncomfortable facts. Any who threaten their comfort or privilege are crushed. They are more similar to the Soviets than they would care to admit.
Political misuse of science is a liberal code word.
And what science is being misused, and by who???
This content-free commentary was provided by RightWing NutBags, LLC. Serving all your unevidenced assertion needs since 1980.
I would say rather that the political left has been closer to the scientific mainstream than the right. Science itself does not lean one way or the other, but many on the right choose to ignore the scientific consensus.
That doesn’t even make sense.
This whole thing reminds me of a line from a science fiction story I once read, where the main character is comparing humans vs. “puppeteers”: (paraphrased):
“Puppeteers may only be figuring out how far to run, but they will never, ever pretend a problem doesn’t exist…Maybe it’s humans who are cowards at the core…”
Not only is it senseless, but the guy can’t even count.
“Political misuse of science” is four words.
Must have gone to NoLiberty U. or Bob Jones U..
You’re asking them to count past three!
That’s just not fair.
Anyone who is really interested in the North Carolina story can find an account here:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/11/science-vs-agw-advocacy-in-north-carolina/
It’s a good illustration of how the AGW thought police respond to intelligent, reasoned criticism of their position. (Hint: they don’t.)
This is a story about the government trying to police how AGW is discussed, and you’d try to spin it as the climatologists policing thoughts? With a well-known liar as a reference? Why on earth would you bother?
opposablethumbs @35: Well, we always knew Republicans were a bunch of Cnuts…
Actually, a lot of it is the god botherers who firmly believe the earth was put here to serve us, and we simply can’t do anything to damage it.
Most of the time they simply waste their lives preparing for an afterlife that doesn’t exist. They die and those left behind are rid of them.
But now, so many of them have insinuated themselves into government at all sorts of levels that they’re able to enact legislation based upon their nutty beliefs — legislation that has very real and very lasting negative consequences.
They still die. But we and our children have to deal with the consequences of their shitty legislation.
I live in VA, and it’s fine with me if developers continue to build on soon-to-be submerges coastlines. The structures will provide shelter for ocean life.
Actually, as the Caribbean waters heat up, we should be trying to establish coral reefs as far north as possible.
I haven’t seen anything about the Virginia stuff, it’s quite new to me, but here is what the crowd at wattsupwiththat had to say regarding North Carolina recently:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/11/science-vs-agw-advocacy-in-north-carolina/
@Juliet
Actually it will devistate coastal life already made fragile from beach seeding and over enthusiastic construction. Sea turtles are fucked
Further, the cost of relocating those who lose their shit will almost certainly fall on the public in the form of disaster relief while the developers, and the greedy, shit-riddled GOP assholes who made it possible bear no real responsibility.
Holms #57:
Yeah, anyone who uses “science vs AGW” is gonna be a real unbiased person, someone with no agenda, someone you can trust™.
I find that attitude a trifle disappointing. It is one thing to note that an anti-AGW advocate is biased, quite another to dismiss everything they say without reading it on the assumption that everything they say is automatically a lie.
When the AGW denialists are in full rant, every word they say might not be dismissed as automatically a lie, but what they say is highly suspect. The AGW denialists include such luminaries as Lord Monckton, who lies about being a member of Parliament and being scientifically qualified to talk about climate. If a person lies about one thing, then what they say about anything else is suspect.
It is automatically a lie. What part of little lie, big lie, don’t you understand? They don’t know how to stop the lies. Once you forgo reality, your mind ignores it.
I agree, Tis Himself: highly suspect. Meaning, we are not going to accept the statement without examining it first. Note that examining it remains a vital component – while we do not act on the assumption that what ‘they’* say is true, we also stop short of assuming that it is false. Rather, we act as if it may be one or the other, which can only be determined by said scrutiny.
This then enables us to point out specifically where the error or intentional lie occurs. Anything less than that means we are not really engaging in dialoge.
“But neither are they! They’re the ones ignoring our rebuttals!” <== my prediction of your reply. And yes, that may well be the case, but that is no reason for us to do the same.
Anyway, I read the explanation of their view, I linked it on the off chance that another might find it useful to read.
*This can apply more or less identically to any 'they' on the other side of any topic of debate.
How much nonsense, how many lies, by AGW denialists, or creationists, or anti-vaxers, or holocaust deniers, or whatever, do you need to read before deciding that reading more is a waste of time? (Unless you are preparing a scholarly article on that particular set of liars, or something similar.)
I’m just saying you can’t rebut it until you have read it, with ‘it’ meaning pretty much any statement / thesis / opinion with which you might disagree. A sweeping dismissal without reading it is a valueless refutation.
Actually yes. You can be so wrong your aren’t even wrong. All the denialists fall into the a category. They must make their case in the scientific literature. And they don’t.
Evidence, found in places like this, not on blogs. Cite their evidence from such sources…