Ha! I’m coincidentally in a running argument with an Ayurvedic “therapist” who prefers personal opionions over facts. That Doonesbury strip’s an excellent parallel.
I may use it.
Thank you PZ
Artsays
It is one thing to be ignorant.
Another to be proud of it and wear it as a badge of honor.
We fall through the looking glass when we make ignorance a requirement for high office.
Silisays
I was surprised when I saw the Dr. Fun ripoff, since I expected it to be today’s Doonesbury.
And lo!
ice9says
I laughed out loud, but in a regretful, ironic timbre.
(lolrit)
ice
Kevinsays
#5 – perhaps the young lady was too elitist for you? In England one ‘reads’ for a degree. Your correct answer could have been “a BSEng” (I’m reading for a batchelor’s degree in sanitation engineering)”.
ggabsays
Fantastic!
This election may be a sign that we’re finally getting over that silliness.
Please let it be a sign.
Donsays
@11,
Indeed. In fact, if you were to study the deciphering of written texts in Berkshire, you could be reading reading at Reading.
I just caught myself jumping to a conclusion about the Doonesbury cartoon. I assumed that the excessively ideological householders were anti-abortion and had hired an anti-abortion plumber. There’s nothing in the cartoon, however, to prevent the interpretation that the whole crew is pro-choice. So it works either way.
Did I come to my snap conclusion because I’m pro-choice and I naturally assumed that such stupid people must be the opposite? Or did I look at the married couple and assume that the white, pudgy, middle-aged people were Republicans (and thus, almost inevitably, anti-abortion)? And did Trudeau mean for it to be seen that way?
Or perhaps plumber is just a codeword for GOP these days. (Deep thoughts on a Sunday morning.)
At a meet-and-greet on a one-way street
As I beat the concrete with the soles of my feet
Saw a sweet petite with a smokin’ seat
And discreetly but fleetly I asked her to eat
But I beat a retreat through the heat in defeat
When she asked “Are you one of them Librul Elite?”
I was sitting on campus reading and a student walked up and asked the following; “Whacha reading for?”. What am I reading “for”!?
Srsly?!
Was this even someone you knew?
ThirtyFiveUpsays
Best, bester, bestest reading is Cuttlefish.
Brad Dsays
Zeno,
Look at it this way: If you were to open the yellow pages, and wanted to select a plumber, or contractor etc. It would be easy to find one using their christianity as a selling point by their inclusion of a Jesus fish on their ad. It wouldn’t be as specific as their stance on Roe v. Wade, but it might get you in the ball park.
It wouldn’t be so easy to hire an atheist plumber. I certainly would make no indication of the sort one way or another if it might affect my business.
From the late, great Bill Hicks:
“I was in Nashville, Tennesee last year, after the show I went to a waffle house. I’m not proud of it. I was hungry. And I’m alone, I’m eating and I’m reading a book, right? Waitress walks over to me.
‘Tch tch tch tch. Hey, what you readin’ for?’
Is that like the weirdest question you’ve ever heard? Not what am I reading, but what am I reading *for*. ‘Well, godammit, you stumped me. Why do I read? Well… hmmm… I guess I read for a lot of reasons, and the main one is so I don’t end up being a fucking waffle waitress.'”
Zeno, while you bring up a good point about our own biases here, I think your first instinct (about it being an anti-abortion plumber) is correct simply because in the current US political scenario, the ones who are pro-choice actually know something about “plumbing”.
Funny, but damned worrying, especially for your northern neighbours.
Benjamin L. Harvillesays
Zeno, the comic must be referring to Palin because the other three candidates were not chosen because of their views on abortion. McCain wanted a female running mate and, to me, the obvious choice, if you ignore the abortion angle, would have been his senatorial colleague Kay Bailey Hutchison. But Hutchison is pro-choice and therefore unacceptable to the Republican base so he went with the less qualified Palin.
khansays
Doonesbury 20 October – 25 October was also very good.
cattasays
“Whacha reading for?”. What am I reading “for”!?
I guess she’s majoring in plumbing sciences.
I would have thought she was asking about which class the book was assigned in. What with most books being read on campus being read as coursework.
nomusesays
Twenty years ago I was sitting in an freshman-level science class at a junior college and I heard that scary sentence; “Teacher, will this be on the test?”
We’ve long since passed “I won’t learn if I don’t have to,” and now seem to be celebrating “I don’t have to learn and you can’t make me.”
Back then, I thought it was just intellectual laziness; a lack of curiosity and a lack of energy to explore ideas. Now it seems to be something deeper.
(My first day of that class, my lab partner — a pre-med! — was ignoring the shiny microscope that sat at every bench. I wanted to play, of course, and when nothing but some glass slides and a lancet turned up, I gritted my teeth and bloodied myself to have something to look at under the lens.)
On the other hand, she probably graduated.
Jadehawksays
I wanna be an elitist, but I have neither enough money to finance it myself, nor am I special enough to get someone else to finance it.
guess I’m gonna have to wait until I get rich (bwahaha) before I can finish my archaeology degree *pout*
I would have thought she was asking about which class the book was assigned in. What with most books being read on campus being read as coursework.
ditto, unless it was done in a sneering or condescending tone a-la “pffft, I’m 19, I don’t read!” (contestant on some dating show on TV; caught while hanging out at a friend’s place, since I don’t have a TV)
I think your second theory is closer to the mark; it’s not necessarily intellectual laziness and probably has more to do with students having to read and work for 5 classes (each of which has a very high information density and work-load) while holding down a job or two, keeping a car, an apartment and whatever other expenses paid up and still finding time to party every week. Coffee’s a good stimulant, but it’s not a miracle worker.
Wowbaggersays
continuing the genius of Bill Hicks from Levi, #21:
“But then, this trucker in the next booth gets up, stands over me and goes: ‘Well, looks like we got ourselves a reader.’ What the fuck’s going on here? It’s not like I walked into a Klan rally in a Boy George outfit, God damn it. It’s a book!”
Running a business entails a lot of paperwork, and I like to take it to a restuarant and work on it over lunch. So I sit there with an open book, pen and paper, and more times than I can count have had this:
“Are you going to school?”
“No”
“Then what are you studying for?”
“??!!?”
Anisays
#15 Posted by: Zeno | October 26, 2008 11:26 AM
I just caught myself jumping to a conclusion about the Doonesbury cartoon. I assumed that the excessively ideological householders were anti-abortion and had hired an anti-abortion plumber. There’s nothing in the cartoon, however, to prevent the interpretation that the whole crew is pro-choice. So it works either way.
Did I come to my snap conclusion because I’m pro-choice and I naturally assumed that such stupid people must be the opposite? Or did I look at the married couple and assume that the white, pudgy, middle-aged people were Republicans (and thus, almost inevitably, anti-abortion)? And did Trudeau mean for it to be seen that way?
Hey, I’m a white, 58-year-old, married woman. I’ve had 2 abortions, one a year before Roe v. Wade. Just who did you think was responsible for that advancement anyway, generationally speaking? Or racially speaking, for that matter? Probably wouldn’t have stood much of a chance if it were only important to poor blacks…
#22Posted by: King Aardvark | October 26, 2008 2:24 PM
Zeno, while you bring up a good point about our own biases here, I think your first instinct (about it being an anti-abortion plumber) is correct simply because in the current US political scenario, the ones who are pro-choice actually know something about “plumbing”.
I think Zeno was correct because it’s primarily only the zealous pro-lifers who cleave to that particular litmus test down to ridiculous levels. Well, them and a few of us hardcore old feminists, anyway…(of course, we want the opposite result from that litmus test!)
Mad Hussein LOLScientist, FCDsays
Ah, my dear Cuttlefish…….. no one wields the anapest with greater aplomb.
Good one for Doonesbury. The first big evangelical church that I became aware of in Toronto was The People’s Church on Shepherd Avenue. They hired a religious, evangelical technician to be their head of video maintenance. He wasn’t a very good technican; but he was religious.
A few years later I ran into the Full Gospel Businessmen’s Association, which encouraged members to do business with fellow evangelical Christians. Maybe atheists & agnostics should have a secret sign–scratching their heads to indicate lack of certainty, perhaps?
Wim Lsays
I wanna be an elitist, but I have neither enough money to finance it myself, [….] guess I’m gonna have to wait until I get rich (bwahaha) before I can finish my archaeology degree
Take heart! All you really need to do is drink a latte or consume a leaf of arugula– and presto, for the price of a few bucks, you’re an elitist!
(Remember that the latte must be sipped, however. For years, I swilled and chugged my lattes, not knowing that my official elitist status was in danger.)
Jadehawksays
ooh, i’ve certainly drunk (sipped, even!) enough lattes… but does it still count if you get them for free because you work where they make them…?
Liberal Atheistsays
You don’t need to be rich to get a degree. At least not where I live.
Waltonsays
Well, I might be considered an aspiring member of the “elite”, being in my second year of a law degree at one of Britain’s better universities. (Note to American readers: in the UK you can do law as an undergraduate degree. I’m aware that this isn’t the case in the US system.) On the other hand, I have a penchant for commenting in areas in which I’m not very qualified. I have no background in economics, for instance, being entirely self-taught in that field. I’d consider myself better-informed than the average voter, but far from being brilliant (and I’d admit to being probably outmatched intellectually by some of the people on this blog).
But in the UK we really don’t have this anti-intellectual sentiment. It mystifies most British people that President Bush has been so eager to play down his educational background, and has spent his entire career apparently putting on an act; but this seems to me to be a (very successful) attempt to play to anti-elitist sentiments. The trouble is that, while I don’t think that President Bush (despite his many failings) is actually an idiot – albeit that opinion is very divided on that point – I am concerned that Palin may really be as intellectually weak and uninformed as she appears. To be honest, despite having been a vehement McCain supporter for some time, I would really struggle with which way to vote in November, were I a US citizen.
Liberal Atheist: if I didn’t care what kind of archaeology I got the degree in, I could get it virtually for free. Since I’m not interested in classical or germanic archaeology or egyptology, studying archaeology in Germany is out of the question though. In order to study what I’m actually interested in, I’d have to study in the USA. and for that, I do not have the money.
I might still get a basic degree in it, and then get the specialization in america someday when I’ve got some money.
the pro from doversays
Those Doonesbury biographies seem like a Stalinist revision of the past. Wasn’t BD actually Brian Dowling former QB at Yale?
the pro from doversays
Those Doonesbury biographies seem like a Stalinist revision of the past. Isn’t BD actually Brian Dowling former QB at Yale?
Sven DiMilosays
Pro*:
You missed the first 3 words of the B.D. profile? “College football star…”
Originally based on Dowling, the character’s been developed quite a bit in the ensuing 35 years of the strip. “Stalinist” seems a little harsh, no?
*nice M*A*S*H reference, btw
the pro from doversays
Sutherland of course, never Alda.
Sven DiMilosays
of course!
JSugsays
I just caught myself jumping to a conclusion about the Doonesbury cartoon. I assumed that the excessively ideological householders were anti-abortion and had hired an anti-abortion plumber. There’s nothing in the cartoon, however, to prevent the interpretation that the whole crew is pro-choice. So it works either way.
Excellent point. Makes me wonder if Trudeau meant it that way, or if it started as a jab at Palin, and he decided to make it less explicit. The punchline could easily have been “No, but I’m opposed to abortion.” Instead, he went with “I agree with you on abortion.” Which can certainly work for both sides of the issue. And the sad fact is that there are plenty of people on both sides who only vote based on that one issue, ignoring all other qualifications of the candidates.
Punch line in the 2nd comic was hilarious.
Well,if youre in the US ,that is….
In the first world,where literacy is not considered a handicap,its not so big an issue really…..:-)
Yeah, but that dumb plumber probably thinks that an abortion is what people usually call his workmanship. It ruins the punch line.
Is the plumber’s last name “Palin”?
I was sitting on campus reading and a student walked up and asked the following; “Whacha reading for?”. What am I reading “for”!?
I guess she’s majoring in plumbing sciences.
wow.
Obviously Not-Joe the Not-Plumber.
Ha! I’m coincidentally in a running argument with an Ayurvedic “therapist” who prefers personal opionions over facts. That Doonesbury strip’s an excellent parallel.
I may use it.
Thank you PZ
It is one thing to be ignorant.
Another to be proud of it and wear it as a badge of honor.
We fall through the looking glass when we make ignorance a requirement for high office.
I was surprised when I saw the Dr. Fun ripoff, since I expected it to be today’s Doonesbury.
And lo!
I laughed out loud, but in a regretful, ironic timbre.
(lolrit)
ice
#5 – perhaps the young lady was too elitist for you? In England one ‘reads’ for a degree. Your correct answer could have been “a BSEng” (I’m reading for a batchelor’s degree in sanitation engineering)”.
Fantastic!
This election may be a sign that we’re finally getting over that silliness.
Please let it be a sign.
@11,
Indeed. In fact, if you were to study the deciphering of written texts in Berkshire, you could be reading reading at Reading.
“Indeed. In fact, if you were to study the deciphering of written texts in Berkshire, you could be reading reading at Reading.” Don, #13
He: “What are you doing?”
She: “I’m reading Reading reading.”
A grammatically correct sentence, but not as good as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo
I just caught myself jumping to a conclusion about the Doonesbury cartoon. I assumed that the excessively ideological householders were anti-abortion and had hired an anti-abortion plumber. There’s nothing in the cartoon, however, to prevent the interpretation that the whole crew is pro-choice. So it works either way.
Did I come to my snap conclusion because I’m pro-choice and I naturally assumed that such stupid people must be the opposite? Or did I look at the married couple and assume that the white, pudgy, middle-aged people were Republicans (and thus, almost inevitably, anti-abortion)? And did Trudeau mean for it to be seen that way?
Or perhaps plumber is just a codeword for GOP these days. (Deep thoughts on a Sunday morning.)
At a meet-and-greet on a one-way street
As I beat the concrete with the soles of my feet
Saw a sweet petite with a smokin’ seat
And discreetly but fleetly I asked her to eat
But I beat a retreat through the heat in defeat
When she asked “Are you one of them Librul Elite?”
More… including surprise ending.
@ Charles,
Srsly?!
Was this even someone you knew?
Best, bester, bestest reading is Cuttlefish.
Zeno,
Look at it this way: If you were to open the yellow pages, and wanted to select a plumber, or contractor etc. It would be easy to find one using their christianity as a selling point by their inclusion of a Jesus fish on their ad. It wouldn’t be as specific as their stance on Roe v. Wade, but it might get you in the ball park.
It wouldn’t be so easy to hire an atheist plumber. I certainly would make no indication of the sort one way or another if it might affect my business.
Don’t forget the Carnival of the Elitist Bastards.
@Charles
From the late, great Bill Hicks:
“I was in Nashville, Tennesee last year, after the show I went to a waffle house. I’m not proud of it. I was hungry. And I’m alone, I’m eating and I’m reading a book, right? Waitress walks over to me.
‘Tch tch tch tch. Hey, what you readin’ for?’
Is that like the weirdest question you’ve ever heard? Not what am I reading, but what am I reading *for*. ‘Well, godammit, you stumped me. Why do I read? Well… hmmm… I guess I read for a lot of reasons, and the main one is so I don’t end up being a fucking waffle waitress.'”
Zeno, while you bring up a good point about our own biases here, I think your first instinct (about it being an anti-abortion plumber) is correct simply because in the current US political scenario, the ones who are pro-choice actually know something about “plumbing”.
Funny, but damned worrying, especially for your northern neighbours.
Zeno, the comic must be referring to Palin because the other three candidates were not chosen because of their views on abortion. McCain wanted a female running mate and, to me, the obvious choice, if you ignore the abortion angle, would have been his senatorial colleague Kay Bailey Hutchison. But Hutchison is pro-choice and therefore unacceptable to the Republican base so he went with the less qualified Palin.
Doonesbury 20 October – 25 October was also very good.
I would have thought she was asking about which class the book was assigned in. What with most books being read on campus being read as coursework.
Twenty years ago I was sitting in an freshman-level science class at a junior college and I heard that scary sentence; “Teacher, will this be on the test?”
We’ve long since passed “I won’t learn if I don’t have to,” and now seem to be celebrating “I don’t have to learn and you can’t make me.”
Back then, I thought it was just intellectual laziness; a lack of curiosity and a lack of energy to explore ideas. Now it seems to be something deeper.
(My first day of that class, my lab partner — a pre-med! — was ignoring the shiny microscope that sat at every bench. I wanted to play, of course, and when nothing but some glass slides and a lancet turned up, I gritted my teeth and bloodied myself to have something to look at under the lens.)
On the other hand, she probably graduated.
I wanna be an elitist, but I have neither enough money to finance it myself, nor am I special enough to get someone else to finance it.
guess I’m gonna have to wait until I get rich (bwahaha) before I can finish my archaeology degree *pout*
ditto, unless it was done in a sneering or condescending tone a-la “pffft, I’m 19, I don’t read!” (contestant on some dating show on TV; caught while hanging out at a friend’s place, since I don’t have a TV)
… in reference to the Kama Sutra, no less.
@#26
I think your second theory is closer to the mark; it’s not necessarily intellectual laziness and probably has more to do with students having to read and work for 5 classes (each of which has a very high information density and work-load) while holding down a job or two, keeping a car, an apartment and whatever other expenses paid up and still finding time to party every week. Coffee’s a good stimulant, but it’s not a miracle worker.
continuing the genius of Bill Hicks from Levi, #21:
“But then, this trucker in the next booth gets up, stands over me and goes: ‘Well, looks like we got ourselves a reader.’ What the fuck’s going on here? It’s not like I walked into a Klan rally in a Boy George outfit, God damn it. It’s a book!”
Another dead hero.
Running a business entails a lot of paperwork, and I like to take it to a restuarant and work on it over lunch. So I sit there with an open book, pen and paper, and more times than I can count have had this:
“Are you going to school?”
“No”
“Then what are you studying for?”
“??!!?”
Hey, I’m a white, 58-year-old, married woman. I’ve had 2 abortions, one a year before Roe v. Wade. Just who did you think was responsible for that advancement anyway, generationally speaking? Or racially speaking, for that matter? Probably wouldn’t have stood much of a chance if it were only important to poor blacks…
I think Zeno was correct because it’s primarily only the zealous pro-lifers who cleave to that particular litmus test down to ridiculous levels. Well, them and a few of us hardcore old feminists, anyway…(of course, we want the opposite result from that litmus test!)
Ah, my dear Cuttlefish…….. no one wields the anapest with greater aplomb.
Good one for Doonesbury. The first big evangelical church that I became aware of in Toronto was The People’s Church on Shepherd Avenue. They hired a religious, evangelical technician to be their head of video maintenance. He wasn’t a very good technican; but he was religious.
A few years later I ran into the Full Gospel Businessmen’s Association, which encouraged members to do business with fellow evangelical Christians. Maybe atheists & agnostics should have a secret sign–scratching their heads to indicate lack of certainty, perhaps?
Take heart! All you really need to do is drink a latte or consume a leaf of arugula– and presto, for the price of a few bucks, you’re an elitist!
(Remember that the latte must be sipped, however. For years, I swilled and chugged my lattes, not knowing that my official elitist status was in danger.)
ooh, i’ve certainly drunk (sipped, even!) enough lattes… but does it still count if you get them for free because you work where they make them…?
You don’t need to be rich to get a degree. At least not where I live.
Well, I might be considered an aspiring member of the “elite”, being in my second year of a law degree at one of Britain’s better universities. (Note to American readers: in the UK you can do law as an undergraduate degree. I’m aware that this isn’t the case in the US system.) On the other hand, I have a penchant for commenting in areas in which I’m not very qualified. I have no background in economics, for instance, being entirely self-taught in that field. I’d consider myself better-informed than the average voter, but far from being brilliant (and I’d admit to being probably outmatched intellectually by some of the people on this blog).
But in the UK we really don’t have this anti-intellectual sentiment. It mystifies most British people that President Bush has been so eager to play down his educational background, and has spent his entire career apparently putting on an act; but this seems to me to be a (very successful) attempt to play to anti-elitist sentiments. The trouble is that, while I don’t think that President Bush (despite his many failings) is actually an idiot – albeit that opinion is very divided on that point – I am concerned that Palin may really be as intellectually weak and uninformed as she appears. To be honest, despite having been a vehement McCain supporter for some time, I would really struggle with which way to vote in November, were I a US citizen.
That’s a great webcomic, that first one! I particularly liked this one:
http://www.farleftside.com/misc/misc2008/addis-atheism.jpg
Ooh, the cartoon cited in #39 is very good!
The Doonesbury comic isn’t actually about Joe the Plumber, and was actually written before he even existed.
http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/faqs/index.html
Liberal Atheist: if I didn’t care what kind of archaeology I got the degree in, I could get it virtually for free. Since I’m not interested in classical or germanic archaeology or egyptology, studying archaeology in Germany is out of the question though. In order to study what I’m actually interested in, I’d have to study in the USA. and for that, I do not have the money.
I might still get a basic degree in it, and then get the specialization in america someday when I’ve got some money.
Those Doonesbury biographies seem like a Stalinist revision of the past. Wasn’t BD actually Brian Dowling former QB at Yale?
Those Doonesbury biographies seem like a Stalinist revision of the past. Isn’t BD actually Brian Dowling former QB at Yale?
Pro*:
You missed the first 3 words of the B.D. profile? “College football star…”
Originally based on Dowling, the character’s been developed quite a bit in the ensuing 35 years of the strip. “Stalinist” seems a little harsh, no?
*nice M*A*S*H reference, btw
Sutherland of course, never Alda.
of course!
Excellent point. Makes me wonder if Trudeau meant it that way, or if it started as a jab at Palin, and he decided to make it less explicit. The punchline could easily have been “No, but I’m opposed to abortion.” Instead, he went with “I agree with you on abortion.” Which can certainly work for both sides of the issue. And the sad fact is that there are plenty of people on both sides who only vote based on that one issue, ignoring all other qualifications of the candidates.