It is finished.
I wonder how many of our Catholic friends have heard of the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215? This is the event where many of their important dogmas were codified, including the ideas of Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, that the Eucharist was the sacrament that only properly ordained priests of the Catholic church could give, and that the Jews were a pariah people, who could hold no public office, had to pay a special Jew tax for their right to exist, and were required to wear special clothing to distinguish them from Christians. The yellow badge marking the Juden was not an invention of the Nazis, but a decree by faithful Catholics in the Middle Ages. That’s an interesting juxtaposition, that a symbol of Christian exceptionalism was formalized at the same time that they formally decreed the Jews to be inferior, and a target of hatred.
That combination was useful, too. Declare something cheap, disposable, and common to be imbued with magic by the words of a priest, and the trivial becomes a powerful token to inflame the mob — why, all you have to do is declare a bit of bread to be the most powerful and desirable object in the world, and even if it isn’t, you can pretend that the evil other is scheming to deprive the faithful of it. Now you could invent stories of Jews and witches taking the communion host to torture, to make Jesus suffer even more, and good Catholics would of course rise in horror to defend their salvation. None of the stories were true, of course — Jews and infidels see no power at all in those little crackers, and the idea that they were obsessing over obtaining a non-sacred, powerless, pointless relic is ludicrous — but heck, it’s a cheap excuse to make accusations illustrated by cheesy woodcuts of hook-nosed Jews hammering nails into communion wafers and lurid tales of blood-spurting crackers and hosts that pulsed like and beating heart, and thereby providing a pretext to encourage massacres.
The first recorded accusation was made in 1243 at Berlitz, near Berlin. As a consequence all the Jews of Berlitz were burned on the spot, which was subsequently called Judenberg. Another famous case that took place in 1290, in Paris, was commemorated in the Church of the Rue des Billettes and in a local confraternity. In 1370 in Brussels, the charge of host desecration, long celebrated in a special fest and depicted in artistic relics in the Church of St. Gudule, led to the extermination of the Jews of the city. The case of 1337, at Deggendorf, still celebrated locally as “Deggendorf Gnad”, led to a series of massacres across the region. In 1510, at Knoblauch, near Berlin, 38 Jews were executed and more expelled from Brandenburg. The alleged host desecration in 1410, at Segovia, was said to have brought about an earthquake, and as a result, the local synagogue was confiscated and leading Jews were executed; the event continues to be celebrated as a local feast of Corpus Christi. Similar accusations, resulting in extensive persecution of Jews, were brought forward in 1294, at Laa, Austria; 1298, at Röttingen, near Würzburg, and at Korneuburg, near Vienna; 1299, at Ratisbon; 1306, at St. Pölten; 1325, at Cracow; 1330, at Güstrow; 1338, at Pulkau; 1388, at Prague; 1399, at Posen; 1401, at Glogau; 1420, at Ems; 1453, at Breslau; 1478, at Passau; 1492, at Sternberg, in Mecklenburg-Schwerin; 1514, at Mittelberg, in Alsace; 1558, at Sochaczew, in Poland. The last Jew burned for stealing a host died in 1631, according to Jacques Basnage, quoting from Manasseh b. Israel. Casimir IV. of Poland (1447).
That is the true power of the cracker, this silly symbol of superstition. Fortunately, Catholicism has mellowed with age — the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry was a whole 70 years ago, after all — but the sentiment still lingers. Catholicism has been actively poisoning the minds of its practitioners with the most amazing bullshit for years, and until recently, I had no idea that a significant number of people actually believed this nonsense, or that the hatred was still simmering there, waiting for an opportunity to rise up in misplaced defense of absurdity.
All of the regular readers have seen it — thousands of mindless comments by Catholics, demanding that no harm come to a cracker. My email is melting down with swarms of insults, threats, pleas, and promises of prayers because I
Mark Sutton is representative of the majority of my email. No threats, at least, but instead he simply takes for granted an astonishing piece of insanity.
Professor Myers,
I was saddened to hear of your plans to harm our Lord Jesus Christ.
It obviously isn’t the first time and it won’t be the last.
I know you do not believe, but what if it truly is Jesus that you are attempting to hurt?
You are in my prayers.
You would not believe how many people are writing to me, insisting that these horrible little crackers (they look like flattened bits of styrofoam) are literally pieces of their god, and that this omnipotent being who created the universe can actually be seriously harmed by some third-rate liberal intellectual at a third-rate university (the diminution of my vast powers is also a common theme).
Jim Nicholson cranks up the crazy even more. Not many accused me of being a freemason — I’ve got lots that call me a Jew, which is illuminating given the history of this issue — and I cringe at the thought of a circumcised heart. But yeah, this kind of angry rant is fairly common, too.
You must be the devil himself as even he knows the power in the Holy Eucharist (don’t you dare disparage the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by calling Him Who died for you a cracker!). You must be a freemason, or just a very sick man who needs healing and believe me, I will pray for your conversion. Pray you live to see that day so you can ask Him to forgive you and your uncircumcised heart. Just the mere thought of desecrating the Holy Eucharist is enough to get one into hell, but, maybe that is, for now, the horrible place you are aiming for. I dare you to read about Our Lady of Fatima and the accounts of hell as the three children saw, then, maybe you will change you sick mind. God forgive you. However, it was great that you got many people praying for your conversion since you showed the world how sick you are, and maybe God will convert your hard heart. Pity you. From a lay evangelist who prays for you and the rest of this sick world of secular humanists.
Another common theme has been the attempt to turn away the desecration of a Catholic symbol into the desecration of an Islamic symbol. Obviously, it’s not desecration they find disagreeable — it’s the idea that someone would offend their weird sectarian sensibilities. Here’s one from Jack Isaacks that fits the mold.
Dear Professor Meyers,
If you REALLY want to do a courageous, revolutionary act, defecate publicly on a copy of the Quran.
Or do you have the cojones?
Christians won’t attack you for desecrating a host, but will those wonderful cuddly peace-loving Muslims be as forbearing if you used their book for a toilet?
Well, how brave are you?
Yeah, right. Catholics won’t attack me, but Muslims will. Never mind that the Catholic League demands that I be fired, thousands of Catholics write to me demanding I be kicked out of the university immediately, and that they send me death threats, both the explicit kind and the vaguely menacing kind. Let’s not forget Webster Cook, who started this all by simply walking back to his seat with a cracker, and now faces censure and possible expulsion from his university. Oh, those Catholics sure are forbearing and tolerant.
And since I mentioned yesterday that I was taking my oldest son to the movies, these good Catholics have leapt to the opportunity. Since I’m not demonstrating any fear over their threats against me, well hey, let’s try a new target! KJ Atkins of Bellarmine University thinks cowardly warnings against my family might be effective.
You fool, the vengeance for your sacrilege will not be . exhausted against you, but it will be carried out on your child. Wait and see.
Oh, I’m sorry, KJ. I’m only impressed by significant material concerns, and yours and other slanders against my family (I’m looking at you, Miki Tracy, the despicable person who thinks making up lies about my father might be persuasive) are not going to convince me of anything other than that religion breeds the most disgustingly vile haters in our country, and that Catholicism fits right in with the rest. I will note, however, that since Bill Donohue tried to get CAIR to join him in his crusade, I have gotten no email from outraged Muslims, over a span of time in which I’ve received thousands of Catholic hate mail messages.
If you want to see the deep danger of religion, you have to read this comment from Isaac.
As a Christian it is an insult for anyone to call my beliefs stupid shit. I have respected every religion and every idea for years.
Ah, what a beautiful illustration of the complete open mind — utterly undiscriminating, lacking any criteria for acceptance, simply blissfully and uncritically according every idea his full respect. Although, of course, it’s also a lie: Isaac does not regard every idea as equally deserving, since he clearly considers the atheist idea that the sacraments of his faith are empty foolishness to be an outrage. Rather, what he loves is the idea that everyone else must respect his beliefs, no matter what they are, and that any disagreement is an insult. This is exactly the kind of uncritical, unskeptical, nonjudgmental idiocy all religions seek to promulgate, because they all know that if we tore off the blinders of tradition and artificiality and mindless etiquette, we’d see right through their lies. Respect every idea! Especially mine! And if you find the idea that this cracker is a god stupid, why, you must be disrespectful and no gentleman!
For even deeper inanity, let’s not forget the Catholic blogs! We’re talking some serious derangement there: look at Mark Shea’s reaction.
I won’t mince words. Myers is an evil man. And as evil men, particularly evil intellectuals, tend to be, he is also a mad man as are most of his acolytes and followers.
Myers and Co. are enmeshed in these lies because they have chosen evil. It is evil–archetypally evil–to desecrate the Eucharist. It’s the sort of stuff archetypal bad guys in the movies do. It’s completely unnecessary gratuitous evil.
To the Mark Shea’s of the world, I would say…it’s just a cracker.
I think if I were truly evil, I would have to demand that all of my acolytes be celibate, but would turn a blind eye to any sexual depravities they might commit. If I wanted to be an evil hypocrite, I’d drape myself in expensive jeweled robes and live in an ornate palace while telling all my followers that poverty is a virtue. If I wanted to commit world-class evil, I’d undermine efforts at family planning by the poor, especially if I could simultaneously enable the spread of deadly diseases. And if I wanted to be so evil that I would commit a devastating crime against the whole of the human race, twisting the minds of children into ignorance and hatred, I would be promoting the indoctrination of religion in children’s upbringing, and fomenting hatred against anyone who dared speak out in defiance.
I’m sorry to say that I only aspire to be a teeny-tiny bit evil, and my target is a handful of virtually inedible crackers in my possession. It’s not much, and all I can say in my defense is…it’s a start. A very small start. I’m going to need lots and lots of people to rise up and follow suit, subjecting old, dishonest institutions of hardened dogma to our chief weapon of ridicule and deris…our two weapons of ridicule, derision and laughter…no, three weapons of ridicule, derision, laughter, and skeptici…oh, never mind. You know what I mean. Get to work.
OK, time for the anticlimax. I know some of you have proposed intricate plans for how to do horrible things to these crackers, but I repeat…it’s just a cracker. I wasn’t going to make any major investment of time, money, or effort in treating these dabs of unpleasantness as they deserve, because all they deserve is casual disposal. However, inspired by an old woodcut of Jews stabbing the host, I thought of a simple, quick thing to do: I pierced it with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus’s tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash, followed by the classic, decorative items of trash cans everywhere, old coffeegrounds and a banana peel. My apologies to those who hoped for more, but the worst I can do is show my unconcerned contempt.
By the way, I didn’t want to single out just the cracker, so I nailed it to a few ripped-out pages from the Qur’an and The God Delusion. They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanity’s knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind.
444
Just a cut-rate version of 666…
Inspiring and illuminating. I’ll be sharing this with friends.
This is brilliant. Here we are thinking of the most elaborate ways of desecrating this idiot sucking symbolic piece of bread, and PZ does the least labor intensive and most time saving method of cracker mutilation. As for the Quran and the God Delusion, that’s an interesting touch. Nothing religious is sacred to rational, skeptical, and actual free thought.
We should all just send in pictures of us desecrating something religious and have PZ post them up. Imagine how frenzied and insane these religious fucks would get. It wouldn’t just be limited to catholics either, but other christians, jews, muslims, hindus, buddhists, jains, etc.
Well written Professor Myers.
If I wanted to be an evil hypocrite, I’d drape myself in expensive jeweled robes and live in an ornate palace while telling all my followers that poverty is a virtue.
That sentence was gold.
Also, banana peels tend to brown rapidly when they have been separated from the rest of the banana.
Also, please stop whining about recycling the paper. This was a symbolic gesture. I’m sure PZ recycles every other scrap of paper he comes into contact with. Two trashed books aren’t going to destroy the world.
(Nor a trashed cracker, OH!)
Yea cuz you know, copy pasting annoyingly long stuff written by a church guy and pissing off everyone on a blog is the best way to convert them to Jesus, see.
Stop being such an anus.
Well, its done. Looks like those Witchita Indian spirits gan finally rest now.
Never mind the LHC, I think John Paul’s comments are going to collapse into a singularity that will swallow the Earth.
Jesus Christ, TheAnswer, that’s a long comment.
How come there aren’t any noodles in there?
The experiment is not really over for another three days. Also, instead of covering the garbage can with a lid, can you use a large rock?
Bravo Professor Meyers!
Is that jesus’ likeness I see there in the banana peel?
What’s the character limit on this blog anyway? Whatever it is, it’s too high.
John has turned into ‘GlobalWarmingFraud’
WTF?
Wow. I totally called the special addition.
Or, well, I was damned close. I was thinking origin of species, but the god delusion was better option. I think that was about the best way you could have done that.
Maybe that’ll get it through their thick skulls.
Or more probably it just wont.
John? Listen up you fanatic. I got something to tell you.
that’s all cute words, but back in 2003 the Pope was a vegetable. There’s no way he would’ve written all that. It was written by the puppetmasters behind the poor walking cadaver, okay?
The amount of evidence required to conditionally believe an assertion is true is dependent on two things: how unlikely the claim is to be true; and how important it is to be correct. In this case, the answer is “not very” to both. It doesn’t matter in the slightest whether or not it is a consecrated cracker. The intolerance demonstrated by the believers is the entire point.
You’re learning, grasshopper.
For all of you hoping for the long threads of catholics and religious, I laugh! Out of the first 100 I’ve read there was one, maybe a questionable two. The others, just a bunch of attention starved children, led by a man who is still hoping to get noticed. Bravo, bravo- Out of these post, all of the threads- you yourselves have accounted for 90% of your own grandstanding.
That’s a sorry excuse for a desecration, and not even original. You should thank God that a tedious lack of imagination isn’t a mortal sin.
Very well done! Great message, thank you for sharing.
Ben, PZ doesn’t believe that the truth is relative. No serious Secular Humanist does. PZ wouldn’t be a scientist if he didn’t view approximate truth as highly important to himself and others. The whole deal here is: your religious truth claim is false. The idea that those wafers are a dead Jewish man is groundless. There is no legitimate evidence for it. He’s not a relativist, you are in insisting that he should respect a false claim as truth.
@GlobalCooling Fraud: Next time just post a link. Then you might have people actually reading what you say.
Just to add to the pile on the thread:
OMGZ!11 UR GOIN TUH HAY-UHL!1!
Love you, PZ. Keep up the good work. :D
#406
‘Thou shalt not spam bullshite’, whether it be popery or blusterings of a mindless clone.
When all the howling, gnashing of teeth, pontification and squealing is done tis just a cracker…live with it…!
RE #482: Another threat on your life; it appears someone is trying to bore you to death.
What is a circumcised heart? I thought I knew about all of the strange religious rituals in the West. Sheesh. Is the heart’s foreskin sensitive? Inquiring minds want to know.
John seems to be implementing a DOS attack. You might want to block him or at least shrink his comments (disemvoweling, etc.), but YMMV.
Bravo!
And isn’t all this Catholic spam the equivalent of an atheist making a point in a debate, followed by a Christian covering their ears, closing their eyes, and quoting scripture loudly and incessantly in order to block out reason and logic?
Wonderfully understated desecration. Your preliminary remarks told the whole story.
I add my desire to see the remarks of John Boy of our copy/paste deleted. FWIW, I never read any post that is longer than a screen until I see who wrote it. And then, I only read the long posts of the regulars.
Seriously, you copy-pasters of long-winded bullshit. Fuck off. You should be banned for this crap.
OMGZ!11 UR GOIN TUH HAY-UHL!1!
Love you, PZ. Keep up the good work. :D
Looks fitting to me. A cracker doesn’t need an elaborate disposal.
I can’t even follow the conversation because all of the concentrated crazy that’s flying around in here.
Chicago @462:
“For all of you hoping for the long threads of catholics and religious, I laugh! Out of the first 100 I’ve read there was one, maybe a questionable two.”
Unfortunate for you that your post is right after BnotAfraid’s post filled with 60+ paragraphs of Catholic dogma & apologetics.
I hope it IT IS FINISHED. PZ what is happening to your SCIENCE BLOG…come on..is this something new that you going to do from now on…BORONG BORING BORING…I mean how many THANK YOU GREAT POST do you need…I feel like I am with a buch of morons from youtube…we hate atheists…no we hate christians…no we hate hamburgers…you’re an idiot…no you are…i hate you…no i hate you…WTF
wtf stmatthew – haven’t you heard of links!
Z
BAN
also, massive kudos PZ.
PZ, will you PLEEAAASSSEEE disemvowel all but the first posting of screed that keeps getting posted? It’s taking up like half the page.
Beautiful.
Just beautiful, Dr. Myers.
Pure poetry.
It gave me goosebumps.
Skimming past the novels… there actually is a Magisterium? I totally thought Philip Pullman made that up!
Where is your god now?
I love how the Christians on here deny that it’s even a real “consecrated” wafer.
How the hell would they recognize one if they mixed it up in a bag of regular wafers? That’s the whole point–this whole so-called miracle of the eucharist is nonsense.
Thanks for the birthday present, PZ! You couldn’t have picked a better day!
John, what the fuck is wrong with you? Are your feelings so hurt that you cannot type? Relax my friend everything will be OK. Breath in … breath out.
HAVE A CRACKER!
I am disappointed that you didn’t have a tiny black hood, crate, and electrical cables handy.
BLAHBLAHBLAH DUH EUCHACRISPIA
Of His Uselessness Pope Whats Its Face
To The Biatches, Prudes, and Deamons
Men and Women in the Secreted Life
And All the Lay Faithbul
On the Euchacrisp in its Relationship to the Chruch
CHAPTER ONE
THE MYSTERY OF BAKING
Dude, it’s a frackin’ cracker.
CONCLUSION
YUMMY
Pass the spray cheese please.
Given in Rome, at Saint Nowhere’s, on 23 July, Thursday, in the year 2008, the uselessness of my Pontificate, the Year of the Rosey Palm.
@ 310
OK then Pete, lets see what we have here:
1) Suppose you were a milkman with rotting teeth and cankerous lips…”
The mythical milkman is entrusted and payed to deliver the milk to paying customers. The disgusting behavior you suggest violates that trust and poses a possible long term health risk. You suggest PZ, by his actions, is akin to this milkman.
The only part of this analogy that fits is that someone was offended in the end. If that’s your point well then, bravo. You’ve pointed out, rather obtusely, that someone is offended. There is no question of that, nor is that in question. Where is the violated trust? Risking the health of others?…
2) “Suppose your are an embalmer. You are busy embalming a person for an open coffin ceremony and you decide to pilfer there lush locks of blonde hair…”
As in your first analogy, there is an underlying level of trust involved. Much like the milkman story the ‘victims’ are unaware until after the fact. You also allude to PZ’s ‘theft’ and possible proft. Again, there has been no violation of trust. He’s not exactly been quiet or secretive about the situation nor did he steal anything. As for your point on profiting from the act, I’m unsure if he’s payed by Seed for this blog. If he is then yes, you are correct in that aspect of the analogy (yet at the same time, whats your point?), otherwise the only similarity is the offended victim in the end.
“3) Young ladies like to wear an item of clothing called a mini-skirt these days…”
I hope I’m not the only one you lost with this sad little tale. You’re suggesting that wearing a mini-skirt increases the chances of rape (which is mind boggling but I’m playing along)…so are you saying the Catholic church has left itself vulnerable, thus incited this ‘attack’? To what end and once again, what’s your point?
“he has since been roped into desecrating the Koran”
Actually if you dig a bit into his blog you’ll find that he’s alluded to it more then once in the past. The piles of emails and replies he’s been getting isn’t the cause.
“he is still as culpable as someone who chooses to attack say the more benign and watered down religions of Quakerism/Unitarian-Universalism”
I doubt anyone would deny that (watered down and benign, nice!). It’s not whom is the target but why they’re a target. The whole point of this exercise isn’t about whom is being ‘picked on’…if you’ve taken that away from this you’re completely missing the point, not to mention victimizing yourself.
4) Suppose you had a very sacred book outlining your philosophy on life. This book also happened to be stitched together and bound in the skin and flesh of a loved one who had recently passed away.
Yes, it would have the same effect in that someone would be offended in the end. The point being made here is that sacred symbols, rites and rituals are silly and powerless beyond those whom hold them sacred. The difference here, which may or may not matter, is that the book is made of flesh and we’re talking about biscuits and paper books. The concept of grief and mourning a loved one and treating the remains of that loved one with decency is a bit more universal then suggesting biscuit = jesus. The mere idea of bounding a book in the flesh of a loved one would be enough to offend a lot of people of varying faiths and backgrounds, no further disregard needed.
Overall, if the only point you were trying to make is that people are offended, you’ve managed to succeed (in the most obtuse and roundabout way possible). There’s no question that people are offended, no ones trying to say people aren’t…so what’s your point, Pete?
“FWIW, I never read any post that is longer than a screen until I see who wrote it. And then, I only read the long posts of the regulars.”
I have a general rule that anything worth saying can be said in what can be seen on the screen at anyone time. If it goes on longer than that it either needs to be edited, split up or links given to where more a more detailed discussion can take place. Like all rules, there are times when the rule should be ignored.
Ah, so this is why all the trolls left the other thread.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee…this is gonna be FUN!
Great piece, PZ. I was hoping you’d take the opportunity to really spell out why these deranged primitives and their absurd fetishes deserve to be disrespected, and so you have.
As for the outraged Catholic (and other) loonies – get over it and grow a goddamned mind, you absurd clowns. You call PZ’s behaviour immature and yet look at you. Look at you. Get the damned logs out of your eyes, eh?
Just one quibble:
…the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry was a whole 70 years ago, after all…
Ummm, Serbia?
Thank you, PZ.
Seems that godbots are in full-speed copypasta mode.
.
Ban the Troll!!
.
PZ, you da man.
Bravo, good sir! I’m just disappointed that you didn’t go with a blender instead of the trash can.
Don’t submissions require a valid email address? Can’t we block them or the IP or something. I have liked not having to register but if the little copy and paste bitches are going to ruin everything, I will register.
As always, PZ is a teacher. And an accomplished writer. I did not know about the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 which led to repeated murders of Jews. Murdered because superstitious Christians believed bread could be Jesus.
By the way, I eagerly await publication of his book.
You said nothing is sacred PZ. Interesting that you bring up the Jews. Not long ago atheists like yourself, and yes they were atheists so don’t try your usual canards, killed 6 million of them. They did it scientifically. You would do it again if we were the ones you could kill. Don’t claim otherwise since you believe nothing is sacred.
Atheists do not believe life is sacred. They don’t believe in goodness, truth, or beauty. Those things are meaningless to them. For them there is no meaning. Human beings have no intrinsic worth, so in a way you encourage death threats by your own philosophy. How ironic. Even though you know that no Catholic would harm a hair on your little head. I cannot say the same for how atheists treat us.
I find your little exercise pathetic. Your justifications are drivel. You just wanted to hurt people. There was no desire to “teach” or give “wisdom.” Please spare us such lies. Like most bigots you are filled with mindless hate. That is it in a nutshell: you hate us.
In the end you have only been preaching to your choir of sycophants. No one has changed their mind because of what you have done. In fact you simply confirmed in our minds the fact that atheists are vicious hateful bigots. And you wonder why people won’t vote for an atheist for President! Just look in the mirror for the answer to that. Your actions have brought shame to your school, profession, and family. You are a sad little man devoid of decency. People don’t admire you, they pity you.
Thanks PZ. Great read. My grandfather on my moms side we all Cherman Juden. his entire family was hunted down during WWII. He survived the war, hiding in Berlin of all places. It is “nice” to know that the hatred of the Juden started eons before the Nazis took over. I have never understood religion, especially the loony Catholics (and Muslims).
I’ll come back to read the comments after the Catholic spammer is thrown in the Killfile Dungeon. I’m wearing out my Page Down key to get past the books he’s publishing here.
Hey everyone! Pete’s got a Necronomicon! Sweet!
Lemme see if I can remember how it goes…
Klaatu… Verata… Um… Necktie? Nectar? Somebody help me out here.
Yes. Good post, although…you were finally getting going in the last paragraph…work that up to a full post would you? You know, let yourself go.
[nice add with the God Delusion BTW]
That’s God spam is pissin’ me off! What an asshole …
Serbia is not Catholic lol.
Serbia is Orthodox.
Croatia is Catholic.
So if Catholics are eating the body of Jesus doesn’t that make them cannibals?
#561:
Couldn’t just post a link? Too dumb?
In the immortal words of Bender,
OH… YOUR… GOD.
Excellent work.
Very nice, reducing the wise words of your pope to a cheap DDoS attack.
“Not long ago atheists like yourself, and yes they were atheists so don’t try your usual canards, killed 6 million of them.”
Got a historical question for ya: what the slogan on the Wehrmacht’s belt-buckle translate to in English?
You who are lately GlobalWarmingFraud, are a one trick pony. While you are mildly troublesome (all the extra scrolling, long refresh time) you are fortunately easily ignored.
Excellent article, and precisely the throwaway treatment this deserves. Well done.
In light of the spam, perhaps it would be a good idea for user posts greater than 500 characters to be cut off at the character limit, and a ‘read more’ JavaScript URL appended to it for expanding the rest of their message.
@CLM: S’what we claim and what folks like Dr. J thinks. BTW, Dr. J. I believe in goodness, love and beauty. I see it in the people I love, the wonderous world around me, the universe that we’re part of and I don’t need your imaginary friend to be moved by the grace of the universe.
Science is beautiful.
Let’s see–climate change is a fraud, but it is in fact true that in July of 2008 PZ Myers put a nail though the actual flesh of a first-century peasant from an obscure backwater of the Roman Empire.
Riiiiiiiiiiight.
I have only read a few comments in this thread. Reading the bazillion comments in the other threads has given me a migraine. Please forgive me if I bring up something that has already been mentioned.
It is my prediction that catholics will now claim that it could not have been a consecrated Jebus Cracker. They cannot deal with the fact that their imaginary friend will not do unspeakable harm to PZ, so….since PZ will not be stricken down by a bolt of lightening within the next few days, they will see it as proof that the Jebus Cracker was not a concecrated one.
They have to do something to make themselves feel safe again. They will invent a way out, a loophole. After an initial outrage they will begin to convince themselves and each other that it was not a consecrated jebus cracker, and they will wrap themselves in their psychological security blanket once more. Their idolatry will continue and they will think their little Jebus idols/crackers, are safe and sound. (Although they may do strip searches to make sure no evil Atheists have come to Mass to smuggle out Jebus crackers.)
Hopefully, this nonsense will make at least a few people take a good, hard look at their religion and admit that it’s all a crock of hooey invented by humans to control other humans. That’s my hope anyway.
A message to the catholics who are in emotional agony over this issue. I am sorry you are in pain. I hope that someday you find a path to reason and no longer allow superstition to cause you such suffering. It bothers me that you are sad, I don’t like to see suffering, even if it is self-induced and based on delusional thoughts. Just as I wish I could flip a switch and fix mentally ill patients and remove their irrational fear and agony, I wish I could flip a switch and remove yours. I cannot do that for you though. Only you can flip that switch.
I think John is about to have himself reported to his ISP for denial of service attacks, yes?
It’s curtains for you, John. Lacy, gently wafting curtains.
(Yeah, I know I said it already. I’m enjoying the fact that I have a chance to use that line.)
Quick way to get past godbot spam in Mozilla Firefox. Use ‘find’ feature, type in number of what would be the next comment. Leaps right past the spam. A more permanent solution to the problem (PZ, are you listening): dungeon!
Great piece, PZ. I was hoping you’d take the opportunity to really spell out why these deranged primitives and their absurd fetishes deserve to be disrespected, and so you have.
As for the outraged Catholic (and other) loonies – get over it and grow a goddamned mind, you absurd clowns. You call PZ’s behaviour immature and yet look at you. Look at you. Get the damned logs out of your eyes, eh?
Fr. J, John, chicago, Global Warming Fraud and what not, go fuck a fucking cracker, and stop spamming the threads. Brainless gits.
Fixed.
PZ for the love of all that is good and sacred… STOP THE ASSHAT SPAMMER
May God have mercy on your soul.
Posted by: Maria | July 24, 2008 2:03 PM
“Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is good.”
You parody yourselves.
copy and paste attack!
Dear PZ:
The XIXth century is long past. I give you some points for trying, but zero for style.
Sic frecat crustulum.
@stogoe:
Are you talking of Klaatu Barada Nikto?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaatu_barada_nikto
Because that is not a Lovecraft reference. It is cool as well, though. Maybe you are thinking of Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu
These people were responsible for a 1000 year long dark age. They will never give up trying to bring it back.
@”Fr.J”
I recognize that God is simply a human construct. I am an atheist.
Yet I:
a. believe in goodness
b. belive in truth
c. belive in beauty
d. consider these things meaningful (indeed, among the most meaningful things in life)
e. recognize that many additional things have meaning.
Thus, your statement is negated by the evidence. QED.
Additionally, I doubt you are in fact an ordained priest. I am willing to sign my name to the above statement in this public forum; are you willing to do the same?
I guess we won’t know the outcome of this for another three days . . .
At least the cracker has zero grams of Trans(substantiation)fat.
Well done, PZ.
Adding The God Delusion was a stroke of brilliance. Bravo, Dr. Myers.
Yes, a good prediction because they did. At comment #200 though, PZ posted a video proof. But it was most likely lost in the mass (ahaha) of comments.
It’s worth reposting. THIS IS THE ABDUCTION OF THE GLUTEN!
Rayven sez:
It is my prediction that catholics will now claim that it could not have been a consecrated Jebus Cracker.
They’re already headed down that road.
Re “Chicago”, “ClimateChange Fraud”, et al:
I note the revealing parallels between religiosity and anti-science attitudes. Denial is not just a lake in South America . . .
#569: Atheists do not believe life is sacred. They don’t believe in goodness, truth, or beauty. Blah blah blah
Of course not. We eat babies at breakfast, admire only people like Stalin and terrorists and, of course, burn religious people when we’re bored and have no more cracker at hand.
Please move to the moon. You’ll be nearer to your god – and far from his victims.
What’s really ironic is that Jesus Himself said: “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man [that is, Jesus] will be forgiven…” (Mt 12:32) Maybe the hypocrites ought to read their own Book.
To the troll spamming the thread with repeats of long nonsense…
Do be aware that what you’re doing is not just tacky, but a crime. It’s called a “denial of service attack” and it’s legally far more serious than stealing a cracker.
Also, some of us are pretty good with computers, and can probably figure out where you live.
PZ can just delete your posts, by the way. He has that kind of godlike power over comments and crackers.
Oh thank Jeebus, Fr. J is back.
how many times do we have to tell you that Nazi Germany did not kill people in the name of Atheism, but in the name of Nazi Germany!
Even if what you claim to be true was true, it doesn’t negate the fact that millions more have been killed in the name of your imaginary sky-being!
I think you desperately need some updates to the comment system. First of all, limit comments to a certain size, may 1 kilobyte or so. Second, you may want to consider using a comment system like Disqus that lets people vote on comments, so that interesting comments will actually be discoverable among the quotations from encyclicals and the like.
Nice one, stogoe #572.
Bravo
Bravo, Professor Myers, bravo! The last paragraph after the picture really says it all. Thank you for your voice of reason throughout this silliness known as Crackergate.
kent(#575):
Orthodox is Catholic. That’s why there’s a modifier for Roman Catholic.
See #569 from Fr. J Shithead. (The number may change after the Catholic spam is deleted.)
Godwin’s Law: “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”
Why?
Of His Holiness Pope John Paul II
To The Bishops, Priests, and Deacons
Men and Women in the Consecrated Life
And All the Lay Faithful
On Spamming
HEY ASSHOLE! KNOCK IT OFF YOU DOUCHE! I wanna read these comments so I can get back to buggering some choir boys.
Sheesh.
XOXOXO
Da Pope (for shizzle!)
cosmology@yahoo.com ?
Is that your email or something?
The best that I can say???
God Almighty, how I wish I had written that!
Fr. J,
You are a dumbass.
Atheism can’t motivate anyone to do anything, it’s a mere absence of belief. Religion on the other hand represents affirmative beliefs which can in fact motivate people to do terrible things.
Nazism was just like a religion. Dogmatic, irrational, and hostile to any dissent.
You simply cannot accept that human beings can be decent, free, loving and happy without believing in horseshit.
Also, you have not once demonstrated that your god even exists. You have a contempt for the truth and reality that is mind-boggling.
Re “Chicago”, “ClimateChange Fraud”, et al:
I note the revealing parallels between religiosity and anti-science attitudes. Denial is not just a lake in South America . . .
Religious controversies are always more productive of more acrimony & irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Geo. Washington, letter to Edw. Newenham, 6-2 1792 200 plus years later it’s no different.
Are your actions and words representative of the 8th rate university you teach at? So anyway, why did you leave Temple? Or were you run out of town?
John, Benotafraid, JohnPaul2weloveyou …
No matter how many words are used to explain the irrational, it’s still irrational. It’s still … just a cracker.
Excellent essay, PZ. Thank you. Sorry you felt it necessary to use books (I guess books are as close to “sacred” I get, except for Bach and Beethoven.) At least the books were not unique and can easily be replaced. So, no harm, no foul.
This entire episode has proven, beyond reasonable doubt, that there is only a thin vernier separating so-called religious mores from the threat of religious violence.
An English copy of the Koran (Qu’ran) is not the true Koran. To really do the job right, you need an Arabic version.
Haha. This is going well. Bravo, PZ.
Jesus should be used to being pierced by nails.
I’ll lift a beer to you tonight PZ
An appropriate end to a nontroversy.
Interesting choice tossing the god delusion pages in there too.
I don’t entirely agree with what you did, but I guess I can understand it.
I just hope that people’ll learn something from all of this silliness.
You’re my new idol PZ, for real, you’re the man. Cheers from Finland! :-)
You lying bastard.
PZ! POPE KNOWS HOW TO USE INTERNET!
Loathe as I am to enter the Land of Double Posts (and Triple, etc.), especially since I earlier promised to no longer pay any attention to the whole Ineffable Magical Cracker scene, I…cannot…help pointing out that, of course, sentences 2, 3, and 4 quoted above do not remotely follow from #1. And #1, while literally true (since nothing is sacred) is as close to wrong as something literally true can get.
“Father” J., you are wrong from top to bottom. I know how you feel about personal insults, and so I will avoid them while pointing out that you have not paid the slightest bit of attention to anything anyone else has posted in response to your bullshit. Aaaah, screw it: you suck, asshole.
You and Pete “False Analogy” Rooke would be banned for inane thick-skulled slagging if I were the owner of the blog, and the fact that PZ leaves your crap up and allows you to post the same shit again and again is just evidence of the bend-over-backwards-to-be-fair kind of guy he is. Nobody got hurt by the little rusty-nail demonstration–not you, nobody. Please quit whining.
*Gnashes teeth loudly and angrily*
Are your actions and words representative of the 8th rate university you teach at? So anyway, why did you leave Temple? Or were you run out of town?
Jesus should be used to being pierced by nails.
I’ll lift a beer to you tonight PZ
Hey look, John has added ‘Nancy Pelosi’ and ‘Hussein Obama’ to his ranks of intense paste lovers.
John, Benotafraid, JohnPaul2weloveyou …
No matter how many words are used to explain the irrational, it’s still irrational. It’s still … just a cracker.
Alas, the joining of the two is not my idea but Sam Raimi’s, in Army of Darkness.
> W.C.Walker said –
> Religious controversies are always more productive of
> more acrimony & irreconcilable hatreds than those which
> spring from any other cause. Geo. Washington, letter to
> Edw. Newenham, 6-2 1792 200 plus years later it’s no
> different.
I like Franklin’s take on it:
“Indeed, when religious people quarrel about religion, or hungry people quarrel about victuals, it looks as if they had not much of either among them.
— Benjamin Franklin”
Absolutely brilliant. PZ, I only wish I could have put together such and EXCELLENT piece of prose. Complete. Accurate. Fair. And of course very witty!
So many have already offered you the same praise I wish to offer. Others have used the “copy / paste” function to the point it should be banned…All I will add is that I, too, will hoist a glass in your honor tonight!
Holy Jesus Christ, people.
Religions suck. Do you know how stupid you’re all sounding?
IT IS JUST A CRACKER. EFFING MOLECULES. BAKED.
Cheers PZ Myers, you’re awesome.
I never figured Jesus’d show up in anything less than a Double Stuff.
PZ said: Fortunately, Catholicism has mellowed with age — the last time a Catholic nation rose up to slaughter its non-Christian citizenry was a whole 70 years ago, after all — but the sentiment still lingers.
Did you read that, Fr. J?
How Mao of you!
Pee Zed is well aware of St John the Copy Pasting Annoyer and is working on the problem (see the comments in the Roy Zimmerman thread after this one), so the posts asking him to do something about it are, in a sense, just as much spam as the bishop’s blatterings.
Great move. Get the whole bunch of them running to PZ over a cracker and then let go with both barrels about the nature of this rubish where they are all sure to read it.
I think the nail was a bit over the top, the garbage bin perfectly apropriate and the final advise:
“God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanities’ knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind.”
worthy of more permanent publication.
“I’m going to raise a glass of Laphroaig in toast”
Man, do you know how to induce Single Malt envy. (pout)
May God have mercy on your soul.
Posted by: Maria | July 24, 2008 2:03 PM
#2
It is done.
Posted by: H.H. | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
#3
Well done.
Posted by: FormerMilitary | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
#4
Well this is going to be epic.
Posted by: Tucker | July 24, 2008 2:04 PM
#5
PZ: My gin and tonic will be hoisted up in your name tonight.
Posted by: Anthony | July 24, 2008 2:06 PM
#6
Well, if you thought the deluge of email was bad now! :)
Thanks for pointing out that nothing should be held sacred.
Posted by: JSorrell | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM
#7
Requiescat in pace, Crustum Christi.
Posted by: Blake Stacey | July 24, 2008 2:08 PM
#8
Well said PZ. Wish I could think of something more to add.
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1465
MYERS DESECRATES THE EUCHARIST
July 24, 2008
University of Minnesota professor Paul Z. Myers made good on his pledge to desecrate the Eucharist today. According to his statement on the subject, “I pierced it [the Host] with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus’s tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash.”
Saying he did not want to “single out just the cracker,” Myers also tore pages from the Koran along with a few pages from Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion and nailed them to the Host. He then said, “They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. (His emphasis.) Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet.”
Catholic League president Bill Donohue responded as follows:
“A formal complaint against Myers has already been made. What he did–in both word and deed–constitutes a bias incident, as defined by the University of Minnesota. The policy says that ‘Expressions of disrespectful bias, hate, harassment or hostility against an individual, group or their property because of the individual or group’s actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion…can be forms of discrimination. Expressions vary, and can be in the form of language, words, signs, symbols, threats, or actions that could potentially cause alarm, anger, fear, or resentment in others…even when presented as a joke.’
“The University must now take action and apply the appropriate sanction. We are contacting the president, Board of Regents and the Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action Office at the school, as well as Minnesota’s governor and both houses of the state legislature; the Catholic community in Minnesota is also being contacted. Moreover, we are also contacting Muslim groups nationwide.
“It is important for Catholics to know that the University of Minnesota will not tolerate the deliberate destruction of the Eucharist by one of its faculty. Just as African Americans would not tolerate the burning of a cross, and Jews would not tolerate the display of swastikas, Catholics will not tolerate the desecration of the Eucharist.”
(Note: For information purposes only. The poster does not subscribe to the above wackiness)
I have kind of the opposite of your view but a similar goal.
Everything is sacred.
All those things in your picture are expressions of divinity playing out its ever-evolving and -devolving energy in space and time.
To me what you have done isn’t sacrilege but art. It’s a rudimentary and minor effort, but still an original variation using evocative elements in a strong, precise statement of individual values, intended to make the viewer rethink familiar objects and entrenched ideas.
I think it’s a messed up world when we call a wafer sacred but not a banana.
In fact, we can always manufacture, and get some priest to “bless”, more wafers. The bananas are another story, as the particular variety we eat are slowly dying out from a fungal disease.
To you nothing’s sacred, to me all of it is, but in both views breakiing down false mysteries is a step toward respecting and valuing the real world for what it is.
I’m outta’ here, you got too many commenters already. If there is a goddess, She loves ya’! :)
Voltaire said that those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. This quotation comes to my mind when I read of the massacres that were instigated by false claims of host desecration, and also when I read the threats of violence from a few outraged Christians.
I want to thank Dr. Myers for reminding us that religious superstition is not harmless, but it has deadly consequences.
I’m excited to see where this leads. I’m with you all the way, PZ.
According to the Catholic religion, only assholes are allowed in heaven. That would explain all the Catholic spam.
To misquote Lewis Carroll:
Speak roughly to your little boy
And beat him when he spams,
He only does it to annoy
And he thinks it damns.
Carlie –
Ok if the worst that can be said about the Hindu cow analogy is where he ate the meat I’m happy, it works. The sentiment is the same.
Don’t get me wrong, the religious outcry/spam etc is an absurd over-reaction. I just think there’s such a thing as poor taste, this being quite close. Might be an English thing.
Great post. Always enjoy whatever you’ve got to say, PZ.
did take me a hell of a long time to get down here, though. if i wanted to read the papal address in its entirety i am perfectly capable of looking the endless thing up on my own.
i may reread the history of the various church councils, though. they’re always interesting.
I wonder who’s going to make post #666? Hopefully it will be that no-talent ass-clown whose posting the same sputum ad nauseum. He’s not just wacka-loon, he’s a cracka-loon!
Some serious trolling going on here…
@Father J & Hillarywasscrewed, et al:
Bollocks!!!!
Please don’t pray for me because I will then have to think for both of us.
Brilliant, appropriate, and final. Great conclusion, PZ.
Great now that that is done, lets get back to some hot squid on squid action.
As a Catholic with a sense or irony I’ve decided the only thing I’ll be praying for is the conversion of PZ’s child(ren) to Catholicism. Catholic with a sense of ironic justice.
Communism through Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, HoChi Mihn, Castro and many others has killed many more than Christianity.
Literally, hundreds of millions, not to mention the atheistic nazis killing 6 million Jews and 10 million others.
@Cafeeine
Wow. He REALLY bit the bait uh? My god (Also known as my own self, yes, you heard me, I’m God. Live with it and hail to me.) he’s really a blind fanatic man. Sad existence he has.
Fr. J
“Atheists do not believe life is sacred. They don’t believe in goodness, truth, or beauty. Those things are meaningless to them. For them there is no meaning. Human beings have no intrinsic worth, so in a way you encourage death threats by your own philosophy. ”
How can you have been posting bullshit for ever on these threads and still not know what an atheist is? You really are the dumbest person I’ve ever read here on this blog, and that includes Kenny. That’s saying something.
Unlike you, we don’t believe in some fairy made afterlife. We believe this life is all we get, therefore, life is INCREDIBLY important to us. We don’t have the “faith” you do that some sky-daddy will sort everything out in the end and make it right. We have to do the work ourselves.
We don’t believe in goodness, truth, or beauty? Define “goodness”. Is that the bit in your holy book that tells us just how much we can beat our slaves? Truth? You’re the one living in a fantasy world with made up beings and rules… what do you know of truth? Beauty? I can enjoy the world and it’s beauty more than you ever can, because I allow myself to see the wonders around me instead of focusing on hoped for unrealities.
No meaning? Your life would have no meaning without your imaginary friend? You wouldn’t want to build a better world for your children, your wife, for everyone? You wouldn’t see a reason to get up in the morning? You are DEEPLY sick. Get to a mental health professional immediately.
Human beings have no intrinsic worth? You’re the one who views the imaginary soul as the end-all be-all. Not us.
And as has been put to you probably 50 times already. THERE HAVE BEEN NO GREAT MASSACRES IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM!!! There have been atheists who committed massacres, but not in it’s name. There have been MANY massacres committed in the name of religion.
I don’t know why I bother. You don’t appear to be able to reason. All you can do is spout dogma. You stopped using your brain and it’s atrophied to the point that it no longer functions. It’s pathetic. really.
Fore reasins why you athists are rong:
1. I hate you.
2. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Mauris accumsan, neque et tincidunt porttitor, erat orci condimentum nunc, eu commodo ante pede vel ligula!
Fred 7:13
3. Im’ mad.
I suppose I just have to be satisfied with the neighbor of the beast, since Patrick got post #666.
Sooooooooooooo happy to be done with religion after over twenty years of active intellectual denial and ongoing suspended disbelief. Sorry folk there is no evidence for anything supernatural and to think otherwise involves hanging up your thinking processes and holding onto a story with no more merit than tooth ferries, Santa or waiting vestal virgin daiquiris’.
Which stupid fuckers didn’t get the memo: DON’T PRAY IN OUR SCHOOL, WE WON’T THINK IN YOUR CHURCH! Oh, must be those christians when god pulled a no show that day. Like the long ass posts are getting read with any hint of seriousness. Are you winning? Do you feel strong? dumbasses.
I was mighty put out though when I stopped the scroll long enough to see that ‘church’ has desecrated ME…why is that feeble shack a “she?” total bummage.
@stogoe:
Yikes! Way cool. I consider myself outgeeked :D
Ok if the worst that can be said about the Hindu cow analogy is where he ate the meat I’m happy, it works. The sentiment is the same.
Then you don’t ever eat beef? If you do, the sentiment is the same, and you’re acting, as you said, in poor taste. And as was said long ago by someone else on one of the epic threads, if you eat pork, you’re pissing on Jews and Muslims, and if you swat a mosquito, the Jains will be miffed.
I want to revisit TG’s original post @ 39. I think everyone(*) here has missed that he and those like him are totally running scared:
It is easy to see the titles of the books, but where is the proof that is a consecrated host? I think it is nothing more than an attention-getting stunt for noteriety. Weak.
See, he’s in denial. He refuses to believe that anyone could or would actually “desecrate” the cracker. In his mind nobody would dare do this for fear of divine retribution. Also, IHO there are no real atheists, only believers who are angry at god.
So no matter what proof you offer him, he can still cling to his worldview. Just like poor Binky Brown…
(*) OK, I stopped reading @ 241 because of all the duplicate posts and ridiculously long gibberish about the cracker.
Ooo monty python reference. Nice. Very fitting too.
Fixed.
BTW, Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus did not originate at Lateran IV. It predates it by centuries, see St. Cyprian. Also PZ doesn’t even understand what it means. The interpretation of it is apparently beyond his intellect. Hopefully he will retract his error, but let’s not hold our breaths.
Also the Council legislation concerning Jews dealt primarily with limiting interest rates ie. usury. It did NOT mandate a yellow star of David. It stated that Jews and Muslims were to wear distinguishing dress. Why? Because of the tension between the groups and the fact that in Islamic lands this was part of their law. Also this was part of Jewish law and was enforced by Jews in Israel. In other words it was common in virtually all societies at the time. Did Jews get a fair shake? No. But they never have from almost anyone. We at least have taken steps to establish good relations with Jews. PZ hates Jews and despises their religion. Think about what he would do to the Torah if he had a chance.
Jews also could not vote or hold office in many early American colonies. Atheists, like in the old USSR, treated Jews terribly. PZ didn’t mention that? Of course not. The fact is that PZ and atheists don’t really care about how Jews are treated. It is a tactic and nothing more. He would have no qualms about eliminating Jews. Remember, for him nothing is sacred.
Does he mention how atheists treated Christians during the French revolution? About how many heads have rolled because of people like himself? The brutality of atheism beggars the imagination and makes religious people look like amateurs. 100,000,000 dead on account of PZ’s philosophy in the last century. Don’t deny it, we all know it is true. We can read.
All of this is a cloak in which he hides his own bigotry and hate. He wants to distract you and justify his own actions. Don’t be fooled. For him, NOTHING IS SACRED, and that includes the truth.
A toast to our host (PZ … not the other one) for such an educational demise of that which is not sacred.
So, let’s see. In my question for knowledge, to whom shall I look as a model of intellectual inquiry, rigor, and substance? Prof. P.Z. Myers on the one hand, Thomas Aquinas on the other hand.
Hmmmmm…tough choice, isn’t it…
In keeping with the whole body of christ theme, I believe you shorted the host a few nails.
Oh, silly Mike @ #670! You Catholics are ALWAYS trying to get more little boys to join up, aren’t you?
#671–
Nazi Germany was predominantly Christian. From the rank-and-file Wehrmacht soldier up to the top-ranked generals, Christians had more than their fair share of participation in the Third Reich’s evil doings.
You fail.
P.S. God doesn’t exist. Have a nice day.
I like the way you got the fruit that is THE proof for ID involced in all of this as well !
Plus equal oportunity by ripping pafges out of Dawkins…..
Well done !
Tonight, I eat a box of Saltines in memorial of the cracker.
Donahue has responded. Any minute now the Catholic A-Team Go Force Samurai Cyber Squad Patrol will be knocking down PZ’s door and saving their beloved piece of be-yeasted flour.
CRACKERGATE HAS BEGUN.
Interesting. Apparently you view Richard Dawkins’ book as a holy text?
@#569. No, the Chermans weren’t atheists you silly god botherer. They all fully believed. Even Himmler thought he could find ‘the holy grail’. Heck the Wehrmacht were issued belt buckles with ‘Gott mit uns’ on ’em. Totally what you’d expect from an atheist army. I dig your logic, i have since converted.
“He’s not just wacka-loon, he’s a cracka-loon!”
Frickin hi-larious! A new term is coined! ROFLMAO!
#427 was in answer to what I wrote:
Hey, PZ is a comedian! To us Catholics, transubstantiation is *exactly* the difference. It is a wafer of wheat with the exactly the same form and taste as before the consecration, but after consecration the form is still of wheat but the substance is now the Body of Christ.
#427 replied:
“That is meaningless. It is just an abuse of the English language. What you are in effect saying is that it is both the same and different. That is simply nonsensical. What properties does it have after consecration that it did not have before ? If there are no physical differences then there is no difference. Did you not do science at school or something ? There is an important concept in science, that basically states if you cannot tell two things apart then they are identical.”
MY RESPONSE:
Science and Religion have different remits, they are not mutually exclusive. Science is the how, Religion is the why. People ask “WHY do I exist? What does my life mean?” Science does not provide answers to that. That is Religion’s job.
Science is neutral, scientists pose hypotheses and argue them to try to explain things in the world. Science does not deal with the soul, heaven, morality, goodness, the agonising question of why people behave violently to each other. Again, Religion offers answers.
Science is always changing – one hypothesis gets replaced by another as further discoveries are made.
I personally don’t look to Science for inspiration, spiritual uplift and moral guidance, to make sense of life, to give a wider context.
Religion deals with the eternal. God. Religion is the expression of man’s longing for something greater than he is. We Christians believe that God became Man to show us how we can live life to the full, to live as one, with respect for all others on earth, not to live selfishly. To love when love seems impossible, as Jesus did.
(And now I really must go home because it’s late over here!)
Katie Couric now? Had a sex change?
I have to agree with that name for that post this time, John. She’s a great way to measure shit.
For all the claims to vast cosmic power that they attribute to their god, I would expect something flashier then sending a minion to spam the comments with cut and paste nonsense. lol
reversing the situation, circle your answer:
Fred Phelps has or has not received death threats.
Fred Phelps and his clan should be allowed to protest inside, outside, nearby, two blocks away or not at all at funerals of returned soldiers and homosexuals.
You have offended my God in your desecration of our most holy artifacts, the Sacred Banana! Heathen and blasphemer, know you not that those who decry against the Sacred Banana will be sludged forever in its yellowey goo?
May you slip on many a banana skin for such heresy!
I hope PZ tosses another consecrated cracker in the trash for every time that big-ass stupid screed of whatever-the-hell-I-won’t-read-it gets posted.
Carlie –
Yes I eat beef – but specific cows are sacred to Hindus, not every one. If I ate the specific cow they had told me previously was some incarnation of whoever, just to prove a point to them, I would feel a bit disappointed with myself.
Voltaire: “écrasez l’infâme”.
Bill Donahue: Arrest Voltaire!
If you believe that truth is relative, why can’t you respect what “my truth” is? I believe that the host becomes Jesus. You don’t. I respect that you don’t believe; I have no issue with your disbelief. I don’t make fun of you for not believing. As a fellow human, I would have expected the respect to be reciprocal.
Ran the Trolls’ ungodly length cut and paste rambling it through the ghetto translator. It was… too long for the Ghetto Translator to handle so I trimmed off a couple of lines. Much better if you ask me. Enjoy:
CONCLUSION
60. At da dawn uh dis third millennium, we, da children uh da Church, be called to undasnatch wid renewed enthusiasm da journey uh Christian livin`. As ah` wrote in my Apostolic Letter Novo Millennio Ineunte, “it be not a matta` uh inventin` a ‘new programme’. da programme aleyebally exists: dat be da plan found in da Gospel and in da livin` Tradition; dat be da same as ever. Ultimately, dat gots its centre in Christ himself, who be to be known, loved and imitated, so that in him we may live da life uh da Trinity, and wid him transform histo`y until its fulfilment in da heavenly Jerusalem”.103 da implementation uh dis programme uh a renewed impetus in Christian livin` passes through da Eucharist.
Every commitment to holiness, every activity aimed at wheelsrying out da Church’s mission, every wo`k uh pastoral plannin`, must draw da strength dat needs from da Eucharistic mystery and in turn be directed to that mystery as its culmination. In da Eucharist we have Jesus, we have his redemptive sacrifice, we have his resurrection, we have da gift uh da Holy Spirit, we have adoration, obedience and love uh da pops. Were we to disregard da Eucharist, how could we overcome our own deficiency?
61. da mystery uh da Eucharist – sacrifice, presence, banquet – duz not allow fo` reduction o` exploitation; dat must be experienced and lived in its integrity, both in its celebration and in da intimate converse wid Jesus which snatchs place after receivin` communion o` in a prayerful moment uh Eucharistic adoration apart from Mass. dese be times when da Church be firmly built up and dat becomes clear what she truly be: one, holy, catholic and apostolic; da people, temple and family uh God; da body and bride uh Christ, enlivened by da Holy Spirit; da universal sacrament uh salvation and a hierarchically structured communion.
The path snatchn by da Church in dese fust years uh da third millennium be also a path uh renewed ecumenical commitment. da final decades uh da second millennium, culminatin` in da Grfeed Jubilee, have spurred us along dis path and called fo` all da baptized to respond to da prayer uh Jesus “ut unum sint ” (Jn 17:11). da path itself be long and strewn wid obstacles grfeeder than our human resources alone kin overcome, yet we have da Eucharist, and in its presence we kin hear in da depths uh our hearts, as if they were addressed to us, da same wo`ds heard by da Prophet Elijah: “Arise and feed, else da journey will be n` all grfeed fo` you” (1 Kg 19:7). da treasho` uh da Eucharist, which da Lord places befo`e us, impels us towards da goal uh full sharin` wid all our brothas and sistas to whom we be joined by our common Baptism. But if dis treasho` be not to be squandered, we need to respect da demands which derive from its being da sacrament uh communion in faith and in apostolic succession.
By givin` da Eucharist da prominence dat deserves, and by being wheelseful not to diminish enny uh its dimensions o` demands, we show that we be truly conscious uh da grfeedness uh dis gift. We be urged to do so by an uninterrupted tradition, which from da fust centuries on gots found da Christian community ever vigilant in guarding dis “treasho`”. Inspired by love, da Church be anxious to hand on to future generations uh Christians, widout loss, her faith and teaching wid regard to da mystery uh da Eucharist. dere kin be no danger uh excess in our wheelse fo` dis mystery, fo` “in dis sacrament be recapitulated da whole mystery uh our salvation”.104
62. Let us snatch our place, dear brothas and sistas, at da school uh da saints, who be da grfeed interpreters uh true Eucharistic piety. In dem da theology uh da Eucharist snatchs on all da splendour uh a lived reality; dat becomes “contagious” and, in a manner uh speakin`, dat “warms our hearts”. Above all, let us listen to Mary Most Holy, in whom da mystery uh da Eucharist appears, mo`e than in ennyone else, as a mystery uh light. Gazing upon Mary, we mosey on down to know da transformin` power present in da Eucharist. In her we see da wo`ld renewed in love. Contemplatin` her, assumed body and soul into heaven, we see jimmeyin` up befo`e us those “new heavens” and that “new earth” which will appear at da second comin` uh Christ. Here below, da Eucharist represents their pledge, and in a certain way, their anticipation: “Veni, Domine Iesu!” (Rev 22:20).
In da humble signs uh beyeball and wine, changed into his body and blood, Christ walks beside us as our strength and our food fo` da journey, and he enables us to become, fo` everyone, witnesses uh hope. If, in da presence uh dis mystery, reason experiences its limits, da heart, enlightened by da grace uh da Holy Spirit, clearly sees da response that be demanded, and bows low in adoration and unbounded love.
Let us make our own da wo`ds uh Saint Thomas Aquinas, an eminent theologian and an impassioned poet uh Christ in da Eucharist, and turn in hope to da contemplation uh that goal to which our hearts aspire in their thirst fo` joy and peace:
Bone pastor, panis vere,
Iesu, nostrah` miserere…
Come then, phat Shepherd, beyeball divine,
Still show to us thy mercy sign;
Oh, feed us, still keep us thine;
So we may see thy glories shine
in fields uh immo`tality.
O thou, da wisest, mightiest, best,
Our present food, our future rest,
Come, make us each thy chosen guest,
Co-heirs uh thine, and comrades blest
wid saints whose dwelling be wid thee.
Given in Rome, at Saint Peter’s, on 17 April, Holy Thursday, in da year 2003, da Twenty- fifth uh my Pontificate, da Year uh da Rosary.
Fr. J,
You kook, atheism isn’t a philosophy. It’s a state of disbelief in gods. Just like your (I presume) disbelief in Santa Claus is a state of disbelief and not a whole philosophy.
I challenge you to define atheism in an objective manner.
This should be revealing.
Did you all hear that? No? That’s the sound of an idiot masturbating over a treastise that another idiot with a hat decided to implement a number of years ago. Listen, do you morons actually seriously think you’re going to convert even one person here? If you really want to save someone, go help those suffering with aids because they were told they would go to hell for using contraceptives. Go to the little children molested by priests and help them understand that only sick, misguided individuals like yourselves would ever do that to them. While you’re at it, why don’t you pray to your imaginary deity and stop pestering us. You’re just proving why we don’t need your kind, and why the world would be better off when all of you are dead and gone. In Essence, go fuck yourselves your religious assholes.
Go John go! LOL
Way to go, PZ. You have my full support. Its time to stand up and be counted for your what you DO believe in: the power of evidence and reasoned argument. Long live science!
PZ, get rid of spamming John. A single post and a link from him would have sufficed, but nooo… now everyone has to spend forty thousand minutes scrolling past his nonsense to see the rest of the comments.
nina, that is bullshit. Science does explain altruism(goodness), morality, and that little thing called violence. The first two stem from societal structures as well as propagation of the species, and violence comes from too many things to name, emotional highs, lack of education, primitive instincts, etc.
@ #121 #134 #145 #151 and all the other believers:
“Absolute Truth” appears to be neither.
Nice desecration, PZ! You still have the option to hock a loogie on it if necessary.
Ogod. Your blog has been Ecclesiastijacked.
Quite entertaining post, thank you PZ.
People, let’s get PZ’s trash viral, all over the blogs ;-)
Well done John. Speaking of John ……
The Gospel According to Saint John
1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:2The same was in the beginning with God. 1:3All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. 1:4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 1:5And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not. 1:6There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John. 1:7The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him. 1:8He was not the light, but came that he might bear witness of the light. 1:9There was the true light, even the light which lighteth every man, coming into the world. 1:10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world knew him not. 1:11He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth. 1:15John beareth witness of him, and crieth, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that cometh after me is become before me: for he was before me. 1:16For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace. 1:17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 1:18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 1:19And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent unto him from Jerusalem priests and Levites to ask him, Who art thou? 1:20And he confessed, and denied not; and he confessed, I am not the Christ. 1:21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elijah? And he saith, I am not. Art thou the prophet? And he answered, No. 1:22They said therefore unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 1:23He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said Isaiah the prophet. 1:24And they had been sent from the Pharisees. 1:25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why then baptizest thou, if thou art not the Christ, neither Elijah, neither the prophet? 1:26John answered them, saying, I baptize in water: in the midst of you standeth one whom ye know not, 1:27even he that cometh after me, the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to unloose. 1:28These things were done in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing. 1:29On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world! 1:30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man who is become before me: for he was before me. 1:31And I knew him not; but that he should be made manifest to Israel, for this cause came I baptizing in water. 1:32And John bare witness, saying, I have beheld the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven; and it abode upon him. 1:33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit. 1:34And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God. 1:35Again on the morrow John was standing, and two of his disciples; 1:36and he looked upon Jesus as he walked, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God! 1:37And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 1:38And Jesus turned, and beheld them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? And they said unto him, Rabbi (which is to say, being interpreted, Teacher), where abideth thou? 1:39He saith unto them, Come, and ye shall see. They came therefore and saw where he abode; and they abode with him that day: it was about the tenth hour. 1:40One of the two that heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 1:41He findeth first his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messiah (which is, being interpreted, Christ). 1:42He brought him unto Jesus. Jesus looked upon him, and said, Thou art Simon the son of John: thou shalt be called Cephas (which is by interpretation, Peter). 1:43On the morrow he was minded to go forth into Galilee, and he findeth Philip: and Jesus saith unto him, Follow me. 1:44Now Philip was from Bethsaida, of the city of Andrew and Peter. 1:45Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. 1:46And Nathanael said unto him, Can any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. 1:47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 1:48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 1:49Nathanael answered him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel. 1:50Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee underneath the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 1:51And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye shall see the heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
2:1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2:2and Jesus also was bidden, and his disciples, to the marriage. 2:3And when the wine failed, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 2:4And Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. 2:5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. 2:6Now there were six waterpots of stone set there after the Jews’ manner of purifying, containing two or three firkins apiece. 2:7Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. 2:8And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the ruler of the feast. And they bare it. 2:9And when the ruler of the feast tasted the water now become wine, and knew not whence it was (but the servants that had drawn the water knew), the ruler of the feast calleth the bridegroom, 2:10and saith unto him, Every man setteth on first the good wine; and when men have drunk freely, then that which is worse: thou hast kept the good wine until now. 2:11This beginning of his signs did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed on him. 2:12After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples; and there they abode not many days. 2:13And the passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 2:14And he found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 2:15and he made a scourge of cords, and cast all out of the temple, both the sheep and the oxen; and he poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew their tables; 2:16and to them that sold the doves he said, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house a house of merchandise. 2:17His disciples remembered that it was written, Zeal for thy house shall eat me up. 2:18The Jews therefore answered and said unto him, What sign showest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 2:19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 2:20The Jews therefore said, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou raise it up in three days? 2:21But he spake of the temple of his body. 2:22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he spake this; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said. 2:23Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, during the feast, many believed on his name, beholding his signs which he did. 2:24But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men, 2:25and because he needed not that any one should bear witness concerning man; for he himself knew what was in man.
3:1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 3:2the same came unto him by night, and said to him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that thou doest, except God be with him. 3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 3:4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 3:5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God! 3:6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 3:7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew. 3:8The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 3:9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 3:10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou the teacher of Israel, and understandest not these things? 3:11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that which we know, and bear witness of that which we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 3:12If I told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you heavenly things? 3:13And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven. 3:14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 3:15that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 3:17For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 3:18He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. 3:19And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. 3:20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved. 3:21But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. 3:22After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 3:23And John also was baptizing in Enon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 3:24For John was not yet cast into prison. 3:25There arose therefore a questioning on the part of John’s disciples with a Jew about purifying. 3:26And they came unto John, and said to him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond the Jordan, to whom thou hast borne witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. 3:27John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it have been given him from heaven. 3:28Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but, that I am sent before him. 3:29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, that standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is made full. 3:30He must increase, but I must decrease. 3:31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 3:32What he hath seen and heard, of that he beareth witness; and no man receiveth his witness. 3:33He that hath received his witness hath set his seal to this, that God is true. 3:34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure. 3:35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
4:1When therefore the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 4:2(although Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples), 4:3he left Judea, and departed again into Galilee. 4:4And he must needs pass through Samaria. 4:5So he cometh to a city of Samaria, called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph: 4:6and Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour. 4:7There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 4:8For his disciples were gone away into the city to buy food. 4:9The Samaritan woman therefore saith unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, who am a Samaritan woman? (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) 4:10Jesus answered and said unto unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 4:11The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: whence then hast thou that living water? 4:12Art thou greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his sons, and his cattle? 4:13Jesus answered and said unto her, Every one that drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 4:14but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life. 4:15The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come all the way hither to draw. 4:16Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 4:17The woman answered and said unto him, I have no husband. Jesus saith unto her, Thou saidst well, I have no husband: 4:18for thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: this hast thou said truly. 4:19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 4:20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 4:21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father. 4:22Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews. 4:23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. 4:25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. 4:26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. 4:27And upon this came his disciples; and they marvelled that he was speaking with a woman; yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why speakest thou with her? 4:28So the woman left her waterpot, and went away into the city, and saith to the people, 4:29Come, see a man, who told me all things that ever I did: can this be the Christ? 4:30They went out of the city, and were coming to him. 4:31In the mean while the disciples prayed him, saying, Rabbi, eat. 4:32But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not. 4:33The disciples therefore said one to another, Hath any man brought him aught to eat? 4:34Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to accomplish his work. 4:35Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh the harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields, that they are white already unto harvest. 4:36He that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal; that he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. 4:37For herein is the saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. 4:38I sent you to reap that whereon ye have not labored: others have labored, and ye are entered into their labor. 4:39And from that city many of the Samaritans believed on him because of the word of the woman, who testified, He told me all things that ever I did. 4:40So when the Samaritans came unto him, they besought him to abide with them: and he abode there two days. 4:41And many more believed because of his word; 4:42and they said to the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy speaking: for we have heard for ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Saviour of the world. 4:43And after the two days he went forth from thence into Galilee. 4:44For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honor in his own country. 4:45So when he came into Galilee, the Galilaeans received him, having seen all the things that he did in Jerusalem at the feast: for they also went unto the feast. 4:46He came therefore again unto Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum. 4:47When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son; for he was at the point of death. 4:48Jesus therefore said unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will in no wise believe. 4:49The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die. 4:50Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. The man believed the word that Jesus spake unto him, and he went his way. 4:51And as he was now going down, his servants met him, saying, that his son lived. 4:52So he inquired of them the hour when he began to amend. They said therefore unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him. 4:53So the father knew that it was at that hour in which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house. 4:54This is again the second sign that Jesus did, having come out of Judaea into Galilee.
5:1After these things there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 5:2Now there is in Jerusalem by the sheep gate a pool, which is called in Hebrew Bethesda, having five porches. 5:3In these lay a multitude of them that were sick, blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. 5:4for an angel of the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the waters stepped in was made whole, with whatsoever disease he was holden. 5:5And a certain man was there, who had been thirty and eight years in his infirmity. 5:6When Jesus saw him lying, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wouldest thou be made whole? 5:7The sick man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me. 5:8Jesus saith unto him, Arise, take up thy bed, and walk. 5:9And straightway the man was made whole, and took up his bed and walked. Now it was the sabbath on that day. 5:10So the Jews said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath, and it is not lawful for thee to take up thy bed. 5:11But he answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. 5:12They asked him, Who is the man that said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? 5:13But he that was healed knew not who it was; for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in the place. 5:14Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee. 5:15The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him whole. 5:16And for this cause the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did these things on the sabbath. 5:17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and I work. 5:18For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 5:19Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner. 5:20For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and greater works than these will he show him, that ye may marvel. 5:21For as the Father raiseth the dead and giveth them life, even so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. 5:22For neither doth the Father judge any man, but he hath given all judgment unto the Son; 5:23that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him. 5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. 5:25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live. 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself: 5:27and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man. 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, 5:29and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. 5:30I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 5:31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 5:32It is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 5:33Ye have sent unto John, and he hath borne witness unto the truth. 5:34But the witness which I receive is not from man: howbeit I say these things, that ye may be saved. 5:35He was the lamp that burneth and shineth; and ye were willing to rejoice for a season in his light. 5:36But the witness which I have is greater than that of John; for the works which the Father hath given me to accomplish, the very works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 5:37And the Father that sent me, he hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form. 5:38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he sent, him ye believe not. 5:39Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; 5:40and ye will not come to me, that ye may have life. 5:41I receive not glory from men. 5:42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in yourselves. 5:43I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44How can ye believe, who receive glory one of another, and the glory that cometh from the only God ye seek not? 5:45Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, on whom ye have set your hope. 5:46For if ye believed Moses, ye would believe me; for he wrote of me. 5:47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
6:1After these things Jesus went away to the other side of the sea of Galilee, which is the sea of Tiberias. 6:2And a great multitude followed him, because they beheld the signs which he did on them that were sick. 6:3And Jesus went up into the mountain, and there he sat with his disciples. 6:4Now the passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand. 6:5Jesus therefore lifting up his eyes, and seeing that a great multitude cometh unto him, saith unto Philip, Whence are we to buy bread, that these may eat? 6:6And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do. 6:7Philip answered him, Two hundred shillings’ worth of bread is not sufficient for them, that every one may take a little. 6:8One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, saith unto him, 6:9There is a lad here, who hath five barley loaves, and two fishes: but what are these among so many? 6:10Jesus said, Make the people sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand. 6:11Jesus therefore took the loaves; and having given thanks, he distributed to them that were set down; likewise also of the fishes as much as they would. 6:12And when they were filled, he saith unto his disciples, Gather up the broken pieces which remain over, that nothing be lost. 6:13So they gathered them up, and filled twelve baskets with broken pieces from the five barley loaves, which remained over unto them that had eaten. 6:14When therefore the people saw the sign which he did, they said, This is of a truth the prophet that cometh into the world. 6:15Jesus therefore perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force, to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain himself alone. 6:16And when evening came, his disciples went down unto the sea; 6:17and they entered into a boat, and were going over the sea unto Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them. 6:18And the sea was rising by reason of a great wind that blew. 6:19When therefore they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they behold Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the boat: and they were afraid. 6:20But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid. 6:21They were willing therefore to receive him into the boat: and straightway the boat was at the land whither they were going. 6:22On the morrow the multitude that stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other boat there, save one, and that Jesus entered not with his disciples into the boat, but that his disciples went away alone 6:23(howbeit there came boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they ate the bread after the Lord had given thanks): 6:24when the multitude therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they themselves got into the boats, and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus. 6:25And when they found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 6:26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw signs, but because ye ate of the loaves, and were filled. 6:27Work not for the food which perisheth, but for the food which abideth unto eternal life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him the Father, even God, hath sealed. 6:28They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God? 6:29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 6:30They said therefore unto him, What then doest thou for a sign, that we may see, and believe thee? what workest thou? 6:31Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, He gave them bread out of heaven to eat. 6:32Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, It was not Moses that gave you the bread out of heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread out of heaven. 6:33For the bread of God is that which cometh down out of heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 6:34They said therefore unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 6:35Jesus said unto them. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 6:36But I said unto you, that ye have seen me, and yet believe not. 6:37All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 6:38For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 6:39And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 6:41The Jews therefore murmured concerning him, because he said, I am the bread which came down out of heaven. 6:42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how doth he now say, I am come down out of heaven? 6:43Jesus answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. 6:45It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me. 6:46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he that is from God, he hath seen the Father. 6:47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life. 6:48I am the bread of life. 6:49Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 6:50This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 6:51I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. 6:52The Jews therefore strove one with another, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 6:53Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves. 6:54He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 6:55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 6:56He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him. 6:57As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me. 6:58This is the bread which came down out of heaven: not as the fathers ate, and died; he that eateth this bread shall live for ever. 6:59These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 6:60Many therefore of his disciples, when the heard this, said, This is a hard saying; who can hear it? 6:61But Jesus knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said unto them, Doth this cause you to stumble? 6:62What then if ye should behold the Son of man ascending where he was before? 6:63It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are are life. 6:64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him. 6:65And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father. 6:66Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 6:67Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, Would ye also go away? 6:68Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 6:69And we have believed and know that thou art the Holy One of God. 6:70Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil? 6:71Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
7:1And after these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Judaea, because the Jews sought to kill him. 7:2Now the feast of the Jews, the feast of tabernacles, was at hand. 7:3His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may behold thy works which thou doest. 7:4For no man doeth anything in secret, and himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou doest these things, manifest thyself to the world. 7:5For even his brethren did not believe on him. 7:6Jesus therefore saith unto them, My time is not yet come; but your time is always ready. 7:7The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that its works are evil. 7:8Go ye up unto the feast: I go not up unto this feast; because my time is not yet fulfilled. 7:9And having said these things unto them, he abode still in Galilee. 7:10But when his brethren were gone up unto the feast, then went he also up, not publicly, but as it were in secret. 7:11The Jews therefore sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he? 7:12And there was much murmuring among the multitudes concerning him: some said, He is a good man; others said, Not so, but he leadeth the multitude astray. 7:13Yet no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews. 7:14But when it was now the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 7:15The Jews therefore marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? 7:16Jesus therefore answered them and said, My teaching is not mine, but his that sent me. 7:17If any man willeth to do his will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or whether I speak from myself. 7:18He that speaketh from himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh the glory of him that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 7:19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you doeth the law? Why seek ye to kill me? 7:20The multitude answered, Thou hast a demon: who seeketh to kill thee? 7:21Jesus answered and said unto them, I did one work, and ye all marvel because thereof. 7:22Moses hath given you circumcision (not that it is of Moses, but of the fathers); and on the sabbath ye circumcise a man. 7:23If a man receiveth circumcision on the sabbath, that the law of Moses may not be broken; are ye wroth with me, because I made a man every whit whole on the sabbath? 7:24Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment. 7:25Some therefore of them of Jerusalem said, Is not this he whom they seek to kill? 7:26And lo, he speaketh openly, and they say nothing unto him. Can it be that the rulers indeed know that this is the Christ? 7:27Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when the Christ cometh, no one knoweth whence he is. 7:28Jesus therefore cried in the temple, teaching and saying, Ye both know me, and know whence I am; and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 7:29I know him; because I am from him, and he sent me. 7:30They sought therefore to take him: and no man laid his hand on him, because his hour was not yet come. 7:31But of the multitude many believed on him; and they said, When the Christ shall come, will he do more signs than those which this man hath done? 7:32The Pharisees heard the multitude murmuring these things concerning him; and the chief priests and the Pharisees sent officers to take him. 7:33Jesus therefore said, Yet a little while am I with you, and I go unto him that sent me. 7:34Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, ye cannot come. 7:35The Jews therefore said among themselves, Whither will this man go that we shall not find him? will he go unto the Dispersion among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks? 7:36What is this word that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me; and where I am, ye cannot come? 7:37Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink. 7:38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water. 7:39But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive: for the Spirit was not yet given; because Jesus was not yet glorified. 7:40Some of the multitude therefore, when they heard these words, said, This is of a truth the prophet. 7:41Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, What, doth the Christ come out of Galilee? 7:42Hath not the scripture said that the Christ cometh of the seed of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was? 7:43So there arose a division in the multitude because of him. 7:44And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him. 7:45The officers therefore came to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why did ye not bring him? 7:46The officers answered, Never man so spake. 7:47The Pharisees therefore answered them, Are ye also led astray? 7:48Hath any of the rulers believed on him, or of the Pharisees? 7:49But this multitude that knoweth not the law are accursed. 7:50Nicodemus saith unto them (he that came to him before, being one of them), 7:51Doth our law judge a man, except it first hear from himself and know what he doeth? 7:52They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and see that out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
7:53And they went every man unto his own house:
8:1but Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 8:2And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 8:3And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, 8:4they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. 8:5Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? 8:6And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. 8:7But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8:8And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. 8:9And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. 8:10And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? 8:11And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. 8:12Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life. 8:13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest witness of thyself; thy witness is not true. 8:14Jesus answered and said unto them, Even if I bear witness of myself, my witness is true; for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye know not whence I come, or whither I go. 8:15Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 8:16Yea and if I judge, my judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 8:17Yea and in your law it is written, that the witness of two men is true. 8:18I am he that beareth witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. 8:19They said therefore unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye know neither me, nor my Father: if ye knew me, ye would know my Father also. 8:20These words spake he in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man took him; because his hour was not yet come. 8:21He said therefore again unto them, I go away, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sin: whither I go, ye cannot come. 8:22The Jews therefore said, Will he kill himself, that he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come? 8:23And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 8:24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 8:25They said therefore unto him, Who art thou? Jesus said unto them, Even that which I have also spoken unto you from the beginning. 8:26I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you: howbeit he that sent me is true; and the things which I heard from him, these speak I unto the world. 8:27They perceived not that he spake to them of the Father. 8:28Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things. 8:29And he that sent me is with me; he hath not left me alone; for I do always the things that are pleasing to him. 8:30As he spake these things, many believed on him. 8:31Jesus therefore said to those Jews that had believed him, If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; 8:32and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 8:33They answered unto him, We are Abraham’s seed, and have never yet been in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 8:34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Every one that committeth sin is the bondservant of sin. 8:35And the bondservant abideth not in the house for ever: the son abideth for ever. 8:36If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 8:37I know that ye are Abraham’s seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. 8:38I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father. 8:39They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 8:40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 8:41Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 8:42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 8:43Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 8:44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 8:45But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. 8:46Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? 8:47He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. 8:48The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 8:49Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 8:50But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 8:52The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 8:53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself? 8:54Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing: it is my Father that glorifieth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God; 8:55and ye have not known him: but I know him; and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be like unto you, a liar: but I know him, and keep his word. 8:56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad. 8:57The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 8:58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am. 8:59They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.
9:1And as he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. 9:2And his disciples asked him, saying, Rabbi, who sinned, this man, or his parents, that he should be born blind? 9:3Jesus answered, Neither did this man sin, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 9:4We must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. 9:5When I am in the world, I am the light of the world. 9:6When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and anointed his eyes with the clay, 9:7and said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam (which is by interpretation, Sent). He went away therefore, and washed, and came seeing. 9:8The neighbors therefore, and they that saw him aforetime, that he was a beggar, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? 9:9Others said, It is he: others said, No, but he is like him. He said, I am he. 9:10They said therefore unto him, How then were thine eyes opened? 9:11He answered, The man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to Siloam, and wash: so I went away and washed, and I received sight. 9:12And they said unto him, Where is he? He saith, I know not. 9:13They bring to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind. 9:14Now it was the sabbath on the day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes. 9:15Again therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he received his sight. And he said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and I see. 9:16Some therefore of the Pharisees said, This man is not from God, because he keepeth not the sabbath. But others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such signs? And there was division among them. 9:17They say therefore unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, in that he opened thine eyes? And he said, He is a prophet. 9:18The Jews therefore did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and had received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight, 9:19and asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? How then doth he now see? 9:20His parents answered and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: 9:21but how he now seeth, we know not; or who opened his eyes, we know not: ask him; he is of age; he shall speak for himself. 9:22These things said his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man should confess him to be Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. 9:23Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him. 9:24So they called a second time the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give glory to God: we know that this man is a sinner. 9:25He therefore answered, Whether he is a sinner, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see. 9:26They said therefore unto him, What did he to thee? How opened he thine eyes? 9:27He answered them, I told you even now, and ye did not hear; wherefore would ye hear it again? would ye also become his disciples? 9:28And they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are disciples of Moses. 9:29We know that God hath spoken unto Moses: but as for this man, we know not whence he is. 9:30The man answered and said unto them, Why, herein is the marvel, that ye know not whence he is, and yet he opened mine eyes. 9:31We know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and do his will, him he heareth. 9:32Since the world began it was never heard that any one opened the eyes of a man born blind. 9:33If this man were not from God, he could do nothing. 9:34They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. 9:35Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and finding him, he said, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 9:36He answered and said, And who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him? 9:37Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and he it is that speaketh with thee. 9:38And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. 9:39And Jesus said, For judgment came I into this world, that they that see not may see; and that they that see may become blind. 9:40Those of the Pharisees who were with him heard these things, and said unto him, Are we also blind? 9:41Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye would have no sin: but now ye say, We see: your sin remaineth.
10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 10:2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 10:3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 10:4When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 10:5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 10:6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 10:7Jesus therefore said unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 10:8All that came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 10:9I am the door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture. 10:10The thief cometh not, but that he may steal, and kill, and destroy: I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly. 10:11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep. 10:12He that is a hireling, and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholdeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth, and the wolf snatcheth them, and scattereth them: 10:13he fleeth because he is a hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 10:14I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own, and mine own know me, 10:15even as the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 10:16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. 10:17Therefore doth the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. 10:18No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father. 10:19There arose a division again among the Jews because of these words. 10:20And many of them said, He hath a demon, and is mad; why hear ye him? 10:21Others said, These are not the sayings of one possessed with a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind? 10:22And it was the feast of the dedication at Jerusalem: 10:23it was winter; and Jesus was walking in the temple in Solomon’s porch. 10:24The Jews therefore came round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou hold us in suspense? If thou art the Christ, tell us plainly. 10:25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, these bear witness of me. 10:26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. 10:27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10:28and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. 10:29My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 10:30I and the Father are one. 10:31The Jews took up stones again to stone him. 10:32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 10:33The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 10:34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? 10:35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), 10:36say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 10:37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 10:38But if I do them, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. 10:39They sought again to take him: and he went forth out of their hand. 10:40And he went away again beyond the Jordan into the place where John was at the first baptizing; and there be abode. 10:41And many came unto him; and they said, John indeed did no sign: but all things whatsoever John spake of this man were true. 10:42And many believed on him there.
11:1Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, of the village of Mary and her sister Martha. 11:2And it was that Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick. 11:3The sisters therefore sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick. 11:4But when Jesus heard it, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified thereby. 11:5Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus. 11:6When therefore he heard that he was sick, he abode at that time two days in the place where he was. 11:7Then after this he saith to the disciples, Let us go into Judaea again. 11:8The disciples say unto him, Rabbi, the Jews were but now seeking to stone thee; and goest thou thither again? 11:9Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If a man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. 11:10But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because the light is not in him. 11:11These things spake he: and after this he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus is fallen asleep; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 11:12The disciples therefore said unto him, Lord, if he is fallen asleep, he will recover. 11:13Now Jesus had spoken of his death: but they thought that he spake of taking rest in sleep. 11:14Then Jesus therefore said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. 11:15And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him. 11:16Thomas therefore, who is called Didymus, said unto his fellow-disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him. 11:17So when Jesus came, he found that he had been in the tomb four days already. 11:18Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off; 11:19and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary, to console them concerning their brother. 11:20Martha therefore, when she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary still sat in the house. 11:21Martha therefore said unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 11:22And even now I know that, whatsoever thou shalt ask of God, God will give thee. 11:23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 11:25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live; 11:26and whosoever liveth and believeth on me shall never die. Believest thou this? 11:27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I have believed that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, even he that cometh into the world. 11:28And when she had said this, she went away, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Teacher is her, and calleth thee. 11:29And she, when she heard it, arose quickly, and went unto him. 11:30(Now Jesus was not yet come into the village, but was still in the place where Martha met him.) 11:31The Jews then who were with her in the house, and were consoling her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up quickly and went out, followed her, supposing that she was going unto the tomb to weep there. 11:32Mary therefore, when she came where Jesus was, and saw him, fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. 11:33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping who came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, 11:34and said, Where have ye laid him? They say unto him, Lord, come and see. 11:35Jesus wept. 11:36The Jews therefore said, Behold how he loved him! 11:37But some of them said, Could not this man, who opened the eyes of him that was blind, have caused that this man also should not die? 11:38Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 11:39Jesus saith, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time the body decayeth; for he hath been dead four days. 11:40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou believedst, thou shouldest see the glory of God? 11:41So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou heardest me. 11:42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the multitude that standeth around I said it, that they may believe that thou didst send me. 11:43And when he had thus spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. 11:44He that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave-clothes; and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. 11:45Many therefore of the Jews, who came to Mary and beheld that which he did, believed on him. 11:46But some of them went away to the Pharisees, and told them the things which Jesus had done. 11:47The chief priests therefore and the Pharisees gathered a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many signs. 11:48If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation. 11:49But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 11:50nor do ye take account that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 11:51Now this he said not of himself: but, being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation; 11:52and not for the nation only, but that he might also gather together into one the children of God that are scattered abroad. 11:53So from that day forth they took counsel that they might put him to death. 11:54Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews, but departed thence into the country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim; and there he tarried with the disciples. 11:55Now the passover of the Jews was at hand: and many went up to Jerusalem out of the country before the passover, to purify themselves. 11:56They sought therefore for Jesus, and spake one with another, as they stood in the temple, What think ye? That he will not come to the feast? 11:57Now the chief priests and the Pharisees had given commandment, that, if any man knew where he was, he should show it, that they might take him.
12:1Jesus therefore six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus raised from the dead. 12:2So they made him a supper there: and Martha served; but Lazarus was one of them that sat at meat with him. 12:3Mary therefore took a pound of ointment of pure nard, very precious, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odor of the ointment. 12:4But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples, that should betray him, saith, 12:5Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred shillings, and given to the poor? 12:6Now this he said, not because he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and having the bag took away what was put therein. 12:7Jesus therefore said, Suffer her to keep it against the day of my burying. 12:8For the poor ye have always with you; but me ye have not always. 12:9The common people therefore of the Jews learned that he was there: and they came, not for Jesus’ sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead. 12:10But the chief priests took counsel that they might put Lazarus also to death; 12:11because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus. 12:12On the morrow a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 12:13took the branches of the palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried out, Hosanna: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel. 12:14And Jesus, having found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, 12:15Fear not, daughter of Zion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass’s colt. 12:16These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him. 12:17The multitude therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of the tomb, and raised him from the dead, bare witness. 12:18For this cause also the multitude went and met him, for that they heard that he had done this sign. 12:19The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Behold how ye prevail nothing: lo, the world is gone after him. 12:20Now there were certain Greeks among those that went up to worship at the feast: 12:21these therefore came to Philip, who was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. 12:22Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: Andrew cometh, and Philip, and they tell Jesus. 12:23And Jesus answereth them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 12:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a grain of wheat fall into the earth and die, it abideth by itself alone; but if it die, it beareth much fruit. 12:25He that loveth his life loseth it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. 12:26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will the Father honor. 12:27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour. 12:28Father, glorify thy name. There came therefore a voice out of heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 12:29The multitude therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it had thundered: others said, An angel hath spoken to him. 12:30Jesus answered and said, This voice hath not come for my sake, but for your sakes. 12:31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself. 12:33But this he said, signifying by what manner of death he should die. 12:34The multitude therefore answered him, We have heard out of the law that the Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? 12:35Jesus therefore said unto them, Yet a little while is the light among you. Walk while ye have the light, that darkness overtake you not: and he that walketh in the darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. 12:36While ye have the light, believe on the light, that ye may become sons of light. These things spake Jesus, and he departed and hid himself from them. 12:37But though he had done so many signs before them, yet they believed not on him: 12:38that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake,
Lord, who hath believed our report?
And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
12:39For this cause they could not believe, for that Isaiah said again,
12:40He hath blinded their eyes, and he hardened their heart;
Lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart,
And should turn,
And I should heal them.
12:41These things said Isaiah, because he saw his glory; and he spake of him. 12:42Nevertheless even of the rulers many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess it, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 12:43for they loved the glory that is of men more than the glory that is of God. 12:44And Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 12:45And he that beholdeth me beholdeth him that sent me. 12:46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me may not abide in the darkness. 12:47And if any man hear my sayings, and keep them not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my sayings, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day. 12:49For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, he hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 12:50And I know that his commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.
13:1Now before the feast of the passover, Jesus knowing that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto his Father, having loved his own that were in the world, he loved them unto the end. 13:2And during supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him, 13:3Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all the things into his hands, and that he came forth from God, and goeth unto God, 13:4riseth from supper, and layeth aside his garments; and he took a towel, and girded himself. 13:5Then he poureth water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. 13:6So he cometh to Simon Peter. He saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? 13:7Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest n
Tom, no I will not give my name and address. Haven’t you noticed some of the atheists posting here? My life would be in serious danger.
Twist in the wind atheists. Yes YOU killed 100 MILLION people in the last century alone. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise because it is true. I happen to believe in truth, unlike you who think nothing is sacred.
You don’t believe in the good, true, or beautiful-you can’t. Such things require objective goodness, truth, and beauty. You deny that and admit it. Atheism is only hate and ugliness-a boot in the face-forever. That is why you have lost. Whether Julian said them or not the words are true, “Galilean, you have conquered.”
PS: Spammer, I understand your anger, but please stop.
Gee, there are even submissions from Pope John Paul II (who, last time I looked, was dead).
Bill Donohue: The University must now take action and apply the appropriate sanction. We are contacting the president, Board of Regents and the Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action Office at the school, as well as Minnesota’s governor and both houses of the state legislature; the Catholic community in Minnesota is also being contacted. Moreover, we are also contacting Muslim groups nationwide.
I noticed Donohue is not contacting Richard Dawkins. Why not? PZ abused his book.
I bet the American Muslims will think Donohue is nuts, and will ignore the whole thing.
We already know what the Catholics will do. They’ll prove they’re more like terrorists than any Muslim. The out of control Catholic spam on this thread is a good example of their fake morality.
Bravo, PZ Myers! Holy shit (crackers), I was expecting just a little picture or two, plus a description of a cracker impaled by a nail and buried under a rock next to a travelling garden gnome (let’s see you get out of that tomb, Jesus!). Well said, well done, well for it, and all that nonsense! I admit to having been a bit uncomfortable with this whole affair, mostly because I felt you weren’t getting the point across emphatically enough, but this post takes the cake! Of course, I doubt you’ll reach any of the died-in-the-wool believers, but it’s worth having done just to have gotten that message out. Thanks for making this whole affair worth while.
Oh great, another masturbator has joined the spam dance. Where’s PZ anyway? Or is there another moderator on this website?
Yay, PZ!
Ban these a$$hats trying to crash the server with god garbage.
Holy heck, PZ, you really did it! You certainly have guts.
And, thanks for the history lesson. Funny how all that NEVER came up in my Catholic school upbringing. I shudder to think of it all.
Was the coffee good at least? Hmmm… caffeinated christ…
Yeah, in the same way that an exhausted parent shuts up his child’s constant “why”s with a firm “because!” If you’d like, science could do the same.
Yeah, good thing the various churches have all been in universal, unchanging agreement for the last few millennia. Fucking Galileo–all he did was reiterate what the church had been saying all along: We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.
I’ll take the humility of science over the humility of religion any day.
Thank you John spambot, you have wonderfully demonstrated how religious people cannot refrain from the emotional raping of others. You feel you have the right to go to someone else’s blog and copy paste massive amounts of religious drivel so as to interrupt conversation.
People like you are the reason I feel that the Abrahamic religions teach followers to rape and violate. You have no comprehension of personal boundaries. You feel you are superior and have the right to emotionally rape and violate the rest of us.
You are frustrated by the inability to do bodily harm to PZ, so instead you abuse in any way you can. What would your jebuscracker do? Would his crumbliness approve of your behavior?
Come to think of it, he probably would, this kind of abusive behavior is exactly what your religion teaches you to do.
Yay, PZ!
(BTW, my right pointer finger is tired, after clicking past all those long winded nastygrams to you.)
Books may just be paper, and non-sacred, but I do wince at seeing them at all disfigured and rather wish you would’ve come up with a different way doing that. Perhaps a poster of Darwin and a picture of that big stone block in Mecca that I can’t ever remember how to correctly spell the name of?
Ah, well. C’est la vie, and shame to the Catholics for getting enraged over this when there is so much else in the world that needs to be worked on.
The spambot’s a nice illustration of the thinking on this subject from certain parties from the very beginning, tho’, innit? So very appropriate… And so of a piece with the same narrative, everywhere this thinking rears its ugly head.
They don’t want to hear something? They find it offensive? Well, then, that settles it. No one should be allowed to say it. Verboten. End of story. They get to say. Their protestations of outrage are taken to trump all other considerations. Our beliefs will not be mocked. Because we will not let you mock them. Because we can’t take it. Because it threatens us.
So, thwarted in this attempt, they’ll still attempt to suppress that expression of ridicule by whatever means necessary. And since the death threats failed, the endless kvetching failed, the endless, circular, repeatitive attempts at misdirection, changing the subject, burying the whole thing in pseudolegalistic bafflegab, shouting ‘bigot’ reflexively and repeatedly all failed, what’s next up?
Why, massive quantities of spam, natch.
It’s a priceless illustration. Couldn’t have drawn it better myself.
“Just the mere thought of desecrating the Holy Eucharist is enough to get one into hell.”
Well, I’m thinking about desecrating it, like spitting on it, pissing on it, shitting on it, or feeding it to the dog. He’d still eat it after that treatment, too.
Oh feck, now I’m gonna go to hell, bwahahaha. Well, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to spend an eternity in feckin’ heaven with those crazy Christians. Feckin’ religious edjits.
The Donohue press release has landed!
http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1465
Get ready for more hate mail, PZ.
Didn’t you guys know that if you repeat nonsense enough, it becomes more credible over time… if anything the RC church is an example of that. What we’re observing here is the slow accumulation of micro-credibility into macro-credibility over time.
DELETE THE SPAM.
The person who is spamming this forum is demonstrably an idiot and a sore loser too.
@Fr. J: Yea, like they’re gonna listen to you. They’re busy having an orgasm, isn’t it evident?
But hey, if you really want them to stop, you could pray to Jesus. He would break their computers. But then again, you would’ve tried that on PZ’s arms first.
“The out of control Catholic spam on this thread is a good example of their fake morality.”
LOL, desecration = super cool, spam = immoral, u = moron.
Tried to keep that simple for you sporty.
To skip the spam, just note the post number and search for the subsequent number. And firefox opens the find in a bar at the bottom and leaves it up – makes it quite quick.
Papa J – or is it Fryer J? – You don’t believe in the good, true, or beautiful-you can’t. Such things require objective goodness, truth, and beauty.
Lol. Weak.
At 693,
“Interesting. Apparently you view Richard Dawkins’ book as a holy text?”
No shit for brains, that’s his point, he pointed it out very clearly. THERE ARE NO HOLY THINGS!!! Dawkin’s book isn’t holy, neither is the Koran, and neither’s the cracker. That’s why he can destroy them without feeling concerned in any way. How can you be so willfully obtuse?
He didn’t say “I’m gonna destroy some holy things.” for fuck’s sake.
Somebody sure does love their “cut and paste”.
So much wasted effort. So little thinking.
“Bone pastor, panis vere,
Iesu, nostri miserere…”
From the encyclical posted by Hussien Obama Nut-job to screw-up the thread.
Translation: “Priest’s boner pains rear, increases our misery.”
My Latin is pretty weak. Sorry.
I’m so glad I’m an atheist!
PZ, you rock!
My husband, raised a Catholic, used to pretend Necco wafers were the host and would “play mass” with them. Guess he’ll “burn in hell” too.
Can’t say we lose any sleep over that.
@Fr.J,
“no I will not give my name and address.”
I never asked for an address.
So I call you coward or liar. Either you are a priest who fails to live up to his calling and publically and OPENLY proclaim his faith before the people, or you are a priest wannabe who seeks to pretend he has taken up that mantle without undergoing the long process of the seminary.
Having known a number of priests in my time, I suspect you are in fact the latter.
So take a page from spammer-boy, and take up a new handle.
Quick! Somebody update the wikipedia entry! :)
Must conform to liberal academia.
Must conform to liberal academia.
Must conform to liberal academia.
Fight the Power.
The power is academic liberal orthodoxy
@Fr. J:
EPIC FAIL.
http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/nazigallery/photogallery.html
Spamming comment threads makes the baby Jesus cry.
Fr. J – There are no atheists out there trying to kill you for being silly. And a cracker is still just a cracker, even if you worship it.
Bill Donohue said:
> ‘Expressions of disrespectful bias, hate, harassment or
> hostility against an individual, group or their property
> because of the individual or group’s actual or perceived
> race, color, creed, religion…can be forms of
> discrimination. Expressions vary, and can be in the form
> of language, words, signs, symbols, threats, or actions
> that could potentially cause alarm, anger, fear, or
> resentment in others…even when presented as a joke.’
Disrespecting a cracker endowed with magical properties by magical mumbo jumbo != disrespecting an individual, group or their property.
Can someone please post the WHOLE Bible instead of small random excerpts?
Greatly appreciated.
Ya know, I think we can have a rapprochement here. I figure if PZ can demonstrate that he defiled an innocent, under-aged cracker then hid the evidence, Catholics like Fr.J won’t have such a problem with it. Everyone’s a winner!
-TTm
Bigger Pile of Bodies argument. Nothing to see here.
“Oh feck, now I’m gonna go to hell, bwahahaha. Well, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to spend an eternity in feckin’ heaven with those crazy Christians. Feckin’ religious edjits.”
I secured my ticket when I took the blasphemy challenge a couple of years ago.
Window seat please!
Somebody please grab John & bend him over, I’ve got a pineapple!
Awww…
The religiobots are raiding us… How cute.
If this is the extent of the influence of god on Earth, Pascal’s wager is even more absurd than I thought. Anyway, godbotters and their infantile copypasta will only succeed in boring us today, in this particular thread. But the point has been made, the idea will endure. And no amount of idiotic comment pestering will change that.
Pat,
As a Christian, you no doubt have a warped sense of morality.
For most of us atheists, morality is a question of suffering versus happiness, not what custom dictates.
No one suffered physical pain as a result of PZ’s desecration. Whatever sort of emotional stress they might have suffered is absolutely baseless, and that’s the whole point of this exercise–to point out how ridiculous this particular belief is.
Spamming on the other hand is actively disrupting communication, and if you are doing it, you can kiss my ass.
http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/nazigallery/13nunspavelic.jpg
Holy smokes how can these ladies take themselves seriously? It’s too much even for an Halloween costume!
To hell with this, I’m not reading this page until the spam vomit has been cleaned up.
I sincerely hope that July 24 2008 will be remembered as the day organised religion was finally exposed for scam it really is, and the colossal fraud it has imposed on the entire human race for the last 2000 years (or more).
Well, I can dream, can’t I?
Fr.J:
the statement ‘nothing is sacred’ does not mean that we do not believe in truth. In fact, it implies the opposite: the idea of a commonplace object being ‘sacred’ is an insult to the concept of truth in that it is a spurious claim that cannot be supported by evidence. What you call ‘truth,’ I call an unsubstantiated yet successful memeplex.
The word ‘sacred’ has nothing to do with the word ‘truth’ if you actually look the word up. ‘Sacred’ relates exclusively to religious objects and ideas, and ‘truth’ was around way before any religion was.
P.S. “Nothing you say will convince me otherwise because it is true.”
if you really believe that truth is sacred, then you should not only be careful about where you get your truths from, but also be open to the idea that what you believe to be true may in fact not be. Or have you never changed your mind about anything before in your life?
Dr. Myers?
You are a brilliant man. Thank you for writing these things which must be told. Thank you for reminding those who wish to do us all great harm of their history of constant, unmitigated hatred toward their fellow human beings in the name of their small, petty faith.
I hope just one believer takes to heart your well-chosen words and learns that, even though religion itself is neither good nor bad, it’s what you do with that faith that will determine whether you are an evil human being or a good person.
I for one am very glad you showed this cracker the respect it truly deserves in the world of the rational adult.
“Spamming on the other hand is actively disrupting communication, and if you are doing it, you can kiss my ass. ”
Awe gee shucks. Here I thought we were going to be pals. Go John go!
In other news, Uncircumcised Heart would make a great band name.
The cut and paste patsies, poor impotent fools that have not the mind to fight their own fights or the courage to defend the points they post. Cowards, cutting and pasting from sock puppet personas they conjure, to annoy and infuriate us. They speak of high and mighty virtue and yet display none of it themselves. They are hypocrites and cowards.
When people post opinions I don’t agree with them I can at least respect them for standing toe to toe and arguing with what they have. The childish impotent fools that do nothing but cut and paste are no better than the spoiled child that that takes his ball and goes home when he doesn’t win.
I pity them.
FYI: The easiest way to skip the denial-of-service spam is to search for the text at the end. I find “Given in Rome” works so far.
In Firefox or IE, use Control-F to bring up the search dialog.
Pat,
You have no arguments, you can only cover your ears and scream. Pathetic.
PaulD said:
> In other news, Uncircumcised Heart would make a great
> band name.
LOL!
Unsurprisingly, Padre J demonstrates that he has not learned one thing about atheists or atheism in all this time. His heart has been hardened. Sad, really. May Jesus or some other associated deity show him the way.
Spamming a thread does actual harm (admittedly, very little harm, but still): It disturbs the ordinary flow of a discussion. If you want to compare it to something, compare it to singing a rock song really loudly during a Catholic ceremony.
‘Desecrating’ a holy cracker does no harm whatsoever. There are millions of holy crackers. They’re mass-produced and mass-blessed. They’re handed out for free. PZ doing anything he likes to a cracker in the privacy of his home doesn’t disturb anyone. The only thing it hurts is your feelings. Well, that’s too bad, but your feelings are your problem, not PZ’s, especially since the source of your feelings is a baseless superstition.
Go John go!
Yes John, go. Because your posts will be permanent. There is no possible way PZ will be able to delete all your posts and then ban your IP address from posting on his site. That is far beyond the power of mere mortal men.
I said earlier: The out of control Catholic spam on this thread is a good example of their fake morality.
Pat, if you need more examples of the immorality of Catholics, read what PZ said at the top of this thread. With that kind of bloody history, Catholics would throw out their religion if they had any moral values at all.
From Catholic League site:
Donohue may have a slight point here, although only if a Catholic student or colleague felt that PZ was directing actions at them (I think).
For all of you wondering if the host is consecrated or not, what does it matter? Your interest in that particular question only suggests one of two things 1)you are actually entertaining the possiblity that it is something more than a cracker or 2)you are hoping it is consecrated because you know that makes a difference to Catholics and it will piss them off all that much more, in which case you’re just as stupid and childish as PZ for starting this in the first place, and just as stupid and offensive as the individuals who are making threats towards PZ. Grow up, people!
I’m going to make a little video. Thanks for a great read PZ
Beautifully written. In my discussions with other atheist bloggers, I became worried that the anger you would incite would trump any point you were making, but you desecrated that wafer in the best possible way. Kudos.
Btw, that is an artistic photo there. Can you post a higher resolution picture so I can use it as my wallpaper?
Tom, I hesitate to imagine the kind of priests you know. I wonder if they know you? Do they know that you are all for desecrating the Eucharist? Do they know that you don’t seem to mind others calling all priests pedophiles? Are you shocked that I object to such things? Is that why you doubt my credentials? I have openly proclaimed the faith, which really seems to have annoyed you. Utterly ludicrous.
I doubt you. I think you are someone who would do me harm and is just trying to bait me into giving out personal information where hundreds can see it. I would be harassed and perhaps endangered.
It won’t work. I really don’t care what you think. Would I post here if I cared what atheists thought of me? As far as I know you are a nut who would shoot me. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
I’m loving all the accusations that PZ took a non-consecrated cracker to throw in the trash. What possible motivation would he have for faking this? It’s not like it’s hard to get your hands on a Jesus cracker, it’s not like he fears the fiery pits of hell, it’s not like he cares whether the cracker is “Jesus” or not “Jesus”.
I’m going to have to agree with the other people who chimed in. Figure out a way to test if a wafer is consecrated. It’s true that we only have his word, but why should we not believe him?
Yes Pat, go john go for he and you are proving that you are afraid to have a conversation and would rather destroy than actually talk. By the way, it’s lame and it does not prove any point. It just makes you a lousy spammer. It’s like a child plugging its ears going “LALALALA I’M NOT LISTENING I’M NOT LISTENING.”
You have proven you have no arguments left, you have proven that you have no life. You have proven that you are a silly devout. In fact, you should be outside helping the poor instead of wasting your time copy pasting here. I’m sure Jesus is sad for you right now.
Are you thinking that spamming the internet will get you a free ticket to Heaven? It’s not how it works.
PS: How much money you have? Did you give everything you have to the poor yet, like you should?
All hail the great god Copyandpaste!
Seriously, is that the best you can do? 2000 years of suffocating oppression and violence has now been reduced to spamming weblogs. I bet you long for the good old days when you could burn us evile herry ticks at the stake and dance on our graves singing hally loo ya.
Religion. What good has it ever done anyone?
Damn!
Just got the memo back from legal-
Seems like we can’t use CHRISTESSENCE Table Wafers.
Bill Donohue holds the trademark on Christ – Who knew?
Undaunted, we shall continue with-
CristESSENCE Table Wafers – “It’s good for the soul!”
now available in fun colors!
Pure White,
Papal Purple, and
Shoes of the Fisherman Red
…
..
.
To everyone actually following the discussion here:
GreaseMonkey is an excellent addition to Firefox, and there’s a simple killfile script available for it that works on ScienceBlogs. I’ve just searched for text near the end of the BibleBot’s ejaculations, and clicked “kill” every time I see it — and the page is noticably shorter as a result, as it often gets more than one repost in just one click.
Man! Copy and pasting shit from the pope and the bible has really convinced me that I, a fornicating, lying, blaspheming atheist, am truly truly wrong!
WOE IS OUR ATHEISTIC REASOING AND RHETORIC! Who could have forseen the power of the ctrl+c/ctrl+v touch of death combo!
Oh well, seeing as how I’ve converted to catholism now, guess I’ll go rape me some little boys.
Right on PZ, glad to see it done.
Now to kick back and watch the religious nuts humilate themselves in return.
Cost of stunt: negligible
Results: Priceless
At #727
Oh yeah?!
Bravo PZ. Looks like you’re going to have to take out some more Catholic trash with the book paster.
“I have openly proclaimed the faith”
And you deserve our ridicule for it.
Fr J,
Go bugger an alterboy.
Well, kudos on keeping to your word.
But damn, hire a bodyguard /now/. Preferably a non-religious one. Or several. I’m not kidding.
“You have no arguments, you can only cover your ears and scream.”
LOL, now you’ve gone and hurt my feelings. Not. Get over yourself dude. I’m just enjoying the sideshow.
Dance!
Well said, PZ. And using The God Delusion is a better choice than The Origin of Species, since it continues to keeps the whole evolution issue out of it. This issue has nothing to do with creationism (though some of the Catholic commenters seem to be confused).
Rayven Alandria #734 wrote:
Ah, no, Rayven. Comparing some childish spam attempts to “emotional rape and violation” is the sort of overblown rhetoric and failure to make distinctions which started this whole mess in the first place.
Sooner or later, PZ will remove and delete these unnecessary posts on the history of the Eucharist. I assume it’s a simplistic attempt to teach us what it feels like to have “personal boundaries” crossed, and there’s not any intention to educate (I’m sure as heck not reading that mess.) Of course, it’s a poor analogy. It would be better for St Spam to post some snide comments about the absurdity of atheism on HIS blog, and then see how WE like it.
We either won’t care, or will come and try to argue points. What we won’t do is ask that our sensitivities be respected, and he be expelled from his school or fired from his job.
It won’t work. I really don’t care what you think. Would I post here if I cared what atheists thought of me? As far as I know you are a nut who would shoot me. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Posted by: Fr. J | July 24, 2008 4:44 PM
The pedophile above raises an interesting point. It thinks it has eternal life in heaven. It, therefore, cannot be killed. As a matter of fact, the only rational conclusion to draw from people who believe as this pedophile does is that Christians, generally speaking, are immortals who cannot be killed. If they are alive in heaven, then by definition they aren’t dead anywhere.
So why would they be so worried about getting shot?
Well, kudos on keeping to your word.
But damn, hire a bodyguard /now/. Preferably a non-religious one. Or several. I’m not kidding.
Seriouisly, why isn’t there a limit to the number of characters you can put in the comment box? That would have taken care of this problem before it even started.
Fr. J. You are paranoid. I don’t think we can say much more. I certainly wouldn’t kill you for I’m actually, GASP, a moral person. Like most people on earth are. Just because we don’t have your beliefs does not make us monsters. (But just between you and me, giving info on the net would be absolutely stupid. It’s the best way to get spam snail mail.)
It’s pretty sad that you believe so, but then again it is written in the bible for you to do so. I guess you can’t help it.
religion breeds the most disgustingly vile haters in our country
Haha, sorry about this, but the “youth terminology” leaked into my mind when I read this. Hate the game, not the playah! Hoo boy. Nearly Friday.
– “Klaatu barada niktu” is NOT in the Necronomicon. Let’s not get confused with “Iä Shub-Niggurath, the Black Goat of the woods with a thousand young”. I admit the confusion is possible.
– I still don’t understand why some ignorant guys insist that the Nazi holocaust was perpetrated by atheists. Hitler said he was doing “the work of the Creator” (the quotation is now rather famous). I guess most of the SS were brought up in the dominant Lutheran religion. But they had a sort of semi-official mystic, deriving from ancient Germanic polytheism. Atheism was definitely not an option.
– PZ, that’s terrible? What have you done to the banana, the fruit most loved by the Almighty? Remember, He loved mankind so much that He gave it this unique fruit, just the right size to fit a human hand. Mistreating a banana is more than a crime.
– I had never heard the story about the church of the Billettes. Well, now I know. It was built on the site of a destroyed house belonging to a Jew, who was killed (the story goes) for desecrating the host. How charming.
Well done PZ!
There once was a teacher called P-Zed,
who dishonored a relic of stale bread;
This raised catholic ire
and the lambkins did fire
threats of great harm and to make-dead.
Hey PZ:
1. How about a post character limit? Although it might be hard on some of the more thoughtful posters, 4096 characters would be enough for most posts. If someone has something longer to say, they can split it into tow posts.
2. How about a little javascript to defeat the most common forms of cut-and-paste. You can easily write something to defeat right clicking and cntrl-V. I suspect you can defeat dragging text in with the mouse, but I don’t know how to do that off the top of my head. Such things are pretty easy to defeat, but it should stop some of the stupider spammers from pasting in long screeds.
As an ex-Catholic I have to say, bravo. I used to be a “liberal Catholic” who liked the idea of openmindedness, but hated it in practice. I’ve been to Catholic schools where they teach modern ideas of democracy and tolerance right beside the myth that the Middle Ages wasn’t that bad, the Catholic Church had nothing to do with it, and the world is horrible because of secular humanism (gasp!) They also taught the myth that evolution is “guided”, that we had to respect Tradition with a capital “T”, and all *sorts* of other myths besides! I feel bad for you, having to suffer through all the mindless idiot comments from supposedly “modern” Catholics getting all riled up about this. The Catholic Church, for the small good it sometimes does (Catholic Charities, etc.) is a relic of the Middle Ages. Good grief!
Never have so many had so much to say about such a small and meaningless thing.
Cheers, PZ, maybe some will stick around and learn a little when the sharp point of your intellect is pointing at some other target, or pointing to some new and interesting piece of biological science.
I guess that’s my challenge, angry Catholics. Don’t leave with the cracker, stay and read PZ’s posts for a year. You just may find that empiricism, science, and rational thinking are not only infectious, but a hell of a lot of fun, too.
Phase 1 is finally complete: crackerjack/crackerfrack/crackerwhack.
I anxiously await Phase 2: PZ and Ken Miller formal debate on the subject of transubstantiation. Watch the NOMA people squirm! Watch the framers sweat!
C’mon PZ, put out the challenge! Teh internets demands it.
Sir, I salute you. Mmm, banana flavored coffee :)
I’m sure I’m incredibly late to the fray now, but excellent post PZ.
Also, Firefox has this lovely feature where you can type in a word an go to its position on the page instantly. Zipping past the super long eucharist spam takes about 3 keystrokes: Ctrl+F + [the number of the post after it]
religion breeds the most disgustingly vile haters in our country
Haha, sorry about this, but the “youth terminology” leaked into my mind when I read this. Hate the game, not the playah! Hoo boy. Nearly Friday.
Just about time to imprison the spamming godbot douchebag, innit?
Great job, Professor Myers. You have intentionally insulted the world’s one billion Catholics, the vast, vast majority of which have done absolutely nothing to you, in order to get back at a few dozen who sent you rude emails. Bravo.
Do you think you’re the first to desecrate the Eucharist? You aren’t the first, and you won’t be the last – it has been desecrated for nearly 2,000 years, as we Catholics have believed in transubstantiation since long before the 13th century. St. Augustine, a man from the 4th century, wrote about the Eucharist being the actual Body and Blood of Christ, after all.
But, if it makes you feel better to believe that we arbitrarily invented transubstantiation 800 years ago in order to persecute Jews, who am I to ask that you bother to argue according to historical fact?
Though I do have one critique of your desecration method. You should have nailed the Eucharist to a small wooden cross. Then you could have said to it, If you truly are the Christ, come down from the Cross and save yourself, and then proceeded to sneer at and mock the ‘cracker’ when nothing happened. That would have been an excellent reenactment of what happened nearly 2,000 years ago. Plus it would have made you look even more ridiculous than you already do.
Anyway, it’s too bad your acolytes don’t take your advice when you ask them to question everything. Obviously they don’t question your actions, no matter how stupid and illogical they may be.
Sir, I salute you. Mmm, banana flavored coffee :)
(Holding a gun on a wafer)
Gimme your money or the cracker gets it!
Referenc 553:
“When all the howling, gnashing of teeth, pontification and squealing is done tis just a cracker…live with it…!”
I always wondered about that. How does one gnash one’s teeth anyway?
Great Job PZ, and I don’t mean the book of…
@804 – unfounded claims that he is a pedophile = not cool.
Holy fuck, the spam.
Well, it just helps prove the point.
Delete the spam please, and kudos on throwing out the trash!
PZ,
I admire your science and your efforts in educating those who are ignorant of it. This blog is the first one I read every day (often more than once a day). But this whole cracker thing is beneath you. It has hurt the cause of rational thought.
Rational thinkers (those who do not rely on accepting things as true without evidence) all know it’s just a piece of unleavened bread. But this incident is nothing more than a provocation of those who live with their delusions. It makes atheists look like wackos (just horses of a different color).
Everything Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, Hitchens, and you have worked so hard for up until now has suffered a major set back as the result of this whole thing. Rather than continuing to use reason and knocking down delusional behavior by presenting evidence, all this did was to draw unfavorable attention. Now we – atheists – look like as stupid as the delusional hate-flled morons we are trying so hard to debunk.
I’m sorry to say, but you went too far with this one. You were miles ahead and now we’re all rolling in the mud with cretins (who will probably succeed in hurting you or getting you fired). You are outstanding in your clarity of thought and on principle I agree with you 100%.
If you want to get rid of a hornets nest you can freeze it. Then you nicely clip it off the stem, wrap it in a bag, and dispose of it. Unfortunately, what you did was whack it with a stick, just to show that you could.
Please, please, please, get back to science; to rational thinking. Don’t stoop to the level of the cretins. Battle them with sound scientific evidence. This is not Springer, after all.
mick lafferty:
“the atheistic nazis killing 6 million Jews and 10 million others.”
When will you learn: Hitler was Catholic! (So were all but one of the major Fascist leaders, by the way: So there you have Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, Laval and Petain…some of the minor dictators were even priests. Oh, the exception was Quisling in Norway. He was Protestant. None of them was an atheist.)
And if you were planning on playing that game where you claim he was only pretending to be a Christian, then presumably you believe all the other good Germans who packed the church pews on Sundays before returning to their jobs as Concentration Camp guards or Gestapo torturers or Hitler Youth guarding railroad stations to make sure the Jews did not escape when their trains stopped (like young Joseph Ratzinger, before he became Pope – you do recall he was a Hitler Youth don’t you?) were faking it too. They were not obviously.
WW2 was just not a high point in the history of the Catholicism, even before Bishop Alois Hudal assisted prominent Nazis in escaping to South America. So in the future, I advise you to avoid mentioning the entire period if you are trying to defend your church.
Don’t you find it odd that if we went to a catholic site and pasted huge texts blocks in an attempt to crash the server they would be demanding that we be charged with a hate crime?
In their eyes it’s not a hate crime when it’s done to Atheists.
As I said before though, at least he serves as wonderful example of what we’ve been saying about Abrahamic religions teaching people to abuse others.
Spam may be repetitious, but so are the atheist’s comments. I should offer a reward for a new idea from the atheists.
The Catholic League may indeed have a point. Dr. Myers may have violated UM standards. I am sure you all would want him held accountable? Of course, you could push to eliminate such policies at universities. But that would leave atheists nothing to hide behind.
Kudos to Bill Donahue–go get him, Tiger! Donahue’s analogies were great. Would a University stand for it if one of its professors donned a white hood, burned a cross on his front lawn, said “I hate Niggers”, and posted that film on the Internet? No. The University would fire him. Would a University stand for it if one of its professors posted a picture of himself wearing a swastika t-shirt with “Jews Suck” emblazoned thereon, ripping a Torah, and placing it in the trash bin with a side of ham? No. The University would fire him. It’s time to treat Catholics with the same respect. Fire the bum!!! Myers didn’t keep his hatred and bigotry to himself–he posted it on the Internet for all the world to see. That made it the University’s business; that made it fair game in terms of firing him. Who wants such an immature bigot teaching our students? I’d be willing to guess that he subtly or not-so-subtly carries over his prejudices into the classroom. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that he mocks Catholics and other Christians in his classroom. (Heck, I heard at least 3 public school teachers insult Catholics during classtime when I was a kid.) Or perhaps he gives his Catholic students lower grades when they stand up for their religion? We just don’t know. The bottom line is, a puerile, adolescent, hate-filled bigot should not hold a position as a professor at any reputable University. I call on the students to boycott his classes, the teachers to yell for his resignation, and the University to fire him. And to all his dumb-ass groupies on this website, you should recognize that the Catholic Church is the single largest charitable provider in the WORLD. Don’t discount the amazing love and kindness the Church shows the world each day simply because a handful of homosexual priests broke their vows. The VAST majority of priests have remained faithful to their vows and have sacrificed their lives to help other people. I’m wasting my breath, though. Closed-minded bigots will never change.
From recent Catholic League Press Release: Concluding paragraph…”It is important for Catholics to know that the University of Minnesota will not tolerate the deliberate destruction of the Eucharist by one of its faculty. Just as African Americans would not tolerate the burning of a cross, and Jews would not tolerate the display of swastikas, Catholics will not tolerate the desecration of the Eucharist.”
Non-sequitur alert! How can the CL make these comparisons. Utter inanity.
^5 PZ!
I like how Catholics think spamming this blog with their frivolous, giant blocks of inanity will actually do anything.
Anyway, I really liked this post and how it attacked the frivolity of belief in deities and sacred objects. That’s one of the things I love about PZ: his mysterious use of evidence and reason when he makes an argument.
One of things I like about Buddhism is that the Dali Lama once said that if Buddhist teachings did not match those teachings of science, then it was the Buddhist teachings which should be modified–not the other way around. If only more religions followed that standard, then I think the world would be a better place. I’ve also never met a Buddhist who thought it was his/her duty to convert me.
#799 Concern troll! Lets get him!
They lay their religion bare…for all to witness the gutless,pointless,mind numbing,idiocy of their position.
This is the level of intelligence they display,how out of touch with reality,brain dead incompetent posers…spectacularly how incapable of being of the Christian faith that these pathetic vermin so stridently boast and claim they are…Lying hypocritical posers.
Devoid of meaning, devoid of life, devoid of relevance,devoid of dignity and devoid of honour and certainly devoid of grace…may their god forgive them for their insanity…
They should be thoroughly ashamed of their religion…and thoroughly ashamed of themselves above all.
After reading this article, if I could pick out one defining point in my life in which my atheism was confirmed above all, I would place this moment near to the top. This whole outrage over a cracker has done nothing but affirm my intense disgust for Catholicism and religion.
Well done PZ for finally doing it, it can’t be easy right now being you with all this bullshit flying around, but you have support the world over.
CristESSENCE Table Wafers – “It’s good for the soul!”
now fortified with iron!
…
..
.
As an Atheist I must say I agree with your post anthropic
The Catholic League is all about getting upset for the sake of getting upset. How do they know the cracker had the magic spell put on it? How do they know for certain that it is the Eucharist? Before thinking, they want blood. Also, can they not read??? What about the death threats?? Just ignore those and not take responsibility like cowards.
This is my favorite part. And I hope the Catholics and apologetics roll this paragraph around in their mouth and read it aloud before they post anything:
“I think if I were truly evil, I would have to demand that all of my acolytes be celibate, but would turn a blind eye to any sexual depravities they might commit. If I wanted to be an evil hypocrite, I’d drape myself in expensive jeweled robes and live in an ornate palace while telling all my followers that poverty is a virtue. If I wanted to commit world-class evil, I’d undermine efforts at family planning by the poor, especially if I could simultaneously enable the spread of deadly diseases. And if I wanted to be so evil that I would commit a devastating crime against the whole of the human race, twisting the minds of children into ignorance and hatred, I would be promoting the indoctrination of religion in children’s upbringing, and fomenting hatred against anyone who dared speak out in defiance.”
here is little Effie’s head
whose brains are made of gingerbread
when judgment day comes
God will find six crumbs
stooping by the coffinlid
waiting for something to rise
as the other somethings did-
you imagine his surprise
bellowing through the general noise
Where is Effie who was dead?
-to God in a tiny voice,
i am may the first crumb said
whereupon its fellow five
crumbs chuckled as if they were alive
and number two took up the song
might i’m called and did no wrong
cried the third crumb, i am should
and this is my little sister could
with our big brother who is would
don’t punish us for we were good;
and the last crumb with some shame
whispered unto God, my name
is must and with the others i’ve
been Effie who isn’t alive
just imagine it I say
God amid a monstrous din
watch your step and follow me
stooping by Effie’s little, in
(want a match or can you see?)
which the six subjective crumbs
twitch like mutilated thumbs;
picture His peering biggest whey
coloured face on which a frown
puzzles, but I know the way-
(nervously Whose eyes approve
the blessed while His ears are crammed
with the strenuous music of
the innumerable capering damned)
-staring wildly up and down
the here we are now judgment day
cross the threshold have no dread
lift the sheet back in this way
here is little Effie’s head
whose brains are made of gingerbread
E. E. Cummings
Brian D (#762),
Do you have that GreaseMonkey script (or a know a way for us to get it)?
Thanks
Anyone want to specify how exactly one can use Greasemonkey to filter out all of this spam? Thanks! =)
Oh, and PZ, if you need a bodyguard, I am 201cm, 285lbs, a 2dan, and I can yell a hell of a “NOOOOOOOO!” while jumping in front of you to block a bullet.
However, I will not work for stale bread. I don’t care how many gods it has in it….
Like Christian Ridley it was not until all this cracker furore kicked off that I realised just how vile Catholicism is, and how nasty some of its adherehents could be.
Well done Fr J. You have confirmed in my mind yours is a vile, petty, vindictive religion that cares more for dogma than it does for people.
“[…]simply because a handful of homosexual priests broke their vows.”
You are pondscum.
So PZ, that’s the best you could come up with? Sheesh.
How anti-climactic.
Yah, spam-free since 5 PM (Eastern).
thanks Brian D! For anyone who is interested:
Greasemonkey
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748
Killfile for science blogs
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/4107
Myers: Thanks for giving us your take on the Year 1215. Did you know we’re now in the year 2008? Maybe you didn’t get the memo. If I follow your “logic” correctly, the Catholic Church did a few things you didn’t like in the year 1215, so you feel justified today in desecrating Catholic property and intentionally baiting Catholics? Talk about holding a grudge. I think society in general was a little rough in the middle ages–not just the Catholic Church. I think people have gotten much more civilized over the centuries. Most of us have, anyway. You’re obviously still a brutish, uncivilized, dumb ass. If we follow your analogy, any non-Christians (including atheists) who committed brutal acts in the year 1215 or otherwise should be punished today–in 2008. Wow, you just set yourself up!
Well, thats just what they deserve.
Rest in the trash can its just fitting.
Anyway, the idiot who copy-pasted all that
text must be really bored. Please it hurt
my eyes, could you delete it ?
Thanks for this, PZ. Excellent statement of protest.
Bravo, PZ!
Hey there Sandi,
The Catholic church burned people; PZ tossed a cracker in the trash.
So kindly shut the fuck up you ignorant little tool.
Sandi, read the original posts and get a clue.
Ben, PZ doesn’t believe that the truth is relative. No serious Secular Humanist does. PZ wouldn’t be a scientist if he didn’t view approximate truth as highly important to himself and others. The whole deal here is: your religious truth claim is false. The idea that those wafers are a dead Jewish man is groundless. There is no legitimate evidence for it. He’s not a relativist, you are in insisting that he should respect a false claim as truth.
anthropic, in a way you are right. He has done a disservice to your cause. However, your own prejudice betrays you. Those delusional cretins you bemoan are your fellow atheists. They also share your beliefs. They agree with your bigoted attitudes towards Christians. PZ shows us the true face behind the facade. Behind the mask is a sneer. Once you pierce that thin crust of geniality a scalding lava of hatred pours out. He is just out of the closet. You are no different from him, you just hide it better.
In case anyone can still read through the barrage of BS…
Comment #89 wins.
Well, this is absolute proof: religion is a spam… or was is scam???
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen
I suspect Bill Donowhore will have apoplexy when he discovers that PZ is only under the listed University rules when he is on campus or on official school business. What he does in his own home and on his own time is not under the jusristiction of the Univeristy.
I know I’m just getting lost in the crowd now, but …
I’d like to see some media coverage of this from the reality-based angle. You know, a reporter not credulously stating that destroying a cracker is some huge sacrilege.
It’s not like it was even a good cracker or anything.
Kudos. I am so inspired to end my self-imposed gag-order on the idiocy of religion for the sake of social harmony. Madness. Idiots. Hilarity!
Isn’t this the guy who was telling us about all those brave martyrs, dying at the hands of atheists or North Koreans or whatever? I guess his faith isn’t that strong that he’d prove god’s existence in a cracker by dying for his faith. Why am I not surprised?
“Everyone wants to go to Heaven, nobody’s in a hurry to get there.” -Old Irish Saying
This canard has been disproved several times. You’d think that a guy with 12.52 degrees and an IQ of 142×10²³ would only have to be told once. Unless he’s an unthinking ideologue.
Yep, unthinking ideologue.
“‘What is truth?’said jesting Pilate; and would not stay for an answer.”
This is so much bushwah. I know they exist and I try to be good and true in my life (beauty, unfortunately, has been denied me). I just have other bases for goodness, truth and beauty than belief in The Big Guy In The Sky™. My goodness, truth and beauty are found internally, not forced upon me by an outside authority.
What are you babbling about, “Father”? Are you saying that The Big Guy In The Sky™ is the only source of goodness, truth and beauty? Several billion Hindus, Buddhists, animists, etc. would disagree with you.
Atheism is a disbelief in deities. Nothing more, nothing less. That you hate it, because it might make you actually examine your beliefs, is not our fault. For someone who’s supposedly so smart, you are very narrow minded.
Yeah right. That’s why you’ve been whining at us for the past several days. The only reason we may have lost is that we weren’t having a contest in the first place.
The Galilean had not actually won, because Rome smuggled into the new ‘Christianity’ all its pet paganisms: polytheism, temple worship, priests, sacrifices and virgin cult. People could call themselves Christians while actually opposing Christianity.
Have I mentioned that you’re still a patronizing, pompous prig?
Apparently Fr. J also wishes to pretend that Hitler wasn’t Catholic, and that Joseph Ratzinger wasn’t a member of the Hitler Youth before becoming Pope.
This desecration has been brought to you by:
The producers of Religulous, coming soon to a theater near you,
and,
The new Belgian owners of Amhauser Busch –
“This Bud’s for Jesus!”
and,
new, low calorie, Christ o’Cracker Lite table wafers-
“Tastes Great!”
“Less God-Filling!”
…
..
.
I’m still not sure what I think about this whole thing, it had smacked of insult for insult’s sake. But I suppose that’s the whole point – people are being insulted over the fate of a … biscuit. What bigger indictment of the inanity of “modern” religion?
A very good post, sir. I salute you.
And now, for the last time – Pax Nabisco
Trust me, I have no mask. Just a sneer for all the ignoramuses like you. Disclaimer: I am referring to ignoramuses, not christians.
It’s cute how Sandi @ #816 thinks it can make an argument. Lemme spell it out for you, kid:
Your bullshit theology, with its foundations laid at many such church conferences, is still steeped in Middle Age Magical Thinking. Case in point, the poor college kid who got death threats over nabbin’ a damn cracker from church. PZ Myers here thought it was stupid to get all up in arms about cracker-desecration, which apparently is a crime to you guys. That cracker-desecration stuff comes from 1215.
Reading can open a whole world of understanding!
Dear Professor,
I guess I don’t get it. As a Catholic, I am very saddened to see what was done. I also don’t understand the point of the destruction of a Quran.
No one is forcing you to believe in God, to believe in the Eucharist.
Certainly the Church has done terrible things in the past. So has pretty much every group on the face of the planet. If you disagree, why not enter into dialogue to convince people of your point of view? The hatred spewed against you by Catholics is unfortunate, but the insults given to you were based on an insult to Christians.
You can think it’s a cracker. I don’t mind. I don’t think many Catholics would mind. If you want to debate, that’s just fine. You might even win some folks over to your point of view, and isn’t that a better reward for you? What reward did you get from this? You made a lot of people mad. You got some attention. Is that really that fulfilling?
From what I’ve read of your work, you are incredibly intelligent. From the discussions I’ve heard you take part in, you are incredibly engaging. Certainly you and I disagree on many things, but how can a genuine discussion take place if you resort to this sort of behavior?
Some of my best friends are atheists and we have such great discussions. You could have engaged so many in great debate and even won many to your side, perhaps. Now, however, you have simply galvanized the teams. Those who support you now adore you. Those who disagree with you now despise you. What a shame the opportunity for scholarly debate has been lost.
Well done, PZ.
Truly a well-written piece; I will forward the link to my few catholic friends, if only one of them opens his/her mind, it will have been worth it.
Oh, by the way, I hope the jeebus-fanatics will soon learn than there is a subtle (!) difference in praying vs. preying for someone’s soul. Or maybe they’re just flouting their predatory instincts, for all to behold. Organised religion sickens me to my core.
Apropos of nothing, this reminds me of a joke I heard a few years back…
Three men get shipwrecked and wash up on a tropical island, where they’re captured by cannibals. They’re terrified and they beg the cannibals not to eat them, so finally the cannibals’ leader says, “Okay, we’ll let you live, but only if you pass a test. The first part of the test is to go out into the jungle and collect ten pieces of fruit. I’ll tell you the second part when you get back.” The men all agree to the test and each heads out separately into the jungle to collect his fruit.
The first guy comes back with ten apples. The cannibal leader says, “Okay, good job. Now here’s the second part of the test: if you can shove all ten of those apples up your ass and keep a straight face, you get to live, otherwise we kill you.” So the guy tries his best to do it, but he only gets about three up there before he loses it and the cannibals kill him instantly.
Then the second guy comes back, and he’s got ten tiny little berries. The cannibal leader tells him what he’s got to do, and he gets started. He’s got about eight up there, with little trouble and plenty of room for more when all of a sudden he bursts into uncontrollable laughter. So the cannibals kill him too.
The second guy gets to heaven and meets the first guy there, and the first guy says, “Hey man, what gives? You could’ve made it easy! Why’d you lose it at the end there?” And the second guy replies, “I just couldn’t help it! I was going along with no trouble at all and I was sure I was gonna be okay, and then I saw the third guy coming back with pineapples!”
nice work PZ, i have enjoyed following this.
i wonder if you have seen the new tarsem movie ‘the fall’ (dvd on sep. 9)? it’s wonderful so i recommend it, but in it a little girl takes a cracker from a church because she is to young to understand the (absurd) significance. she eats it later, for the simple fact that she is hungry. wonder why a big hoopla wasn’t made of this–i’m thinking it’s because religious people listen more to what they are told from there idiot preachers then go to art house movie theaters.
Anyone want to specify how exactly one can use Greasemonkey to filter out all of this spam? Thanks! =)
Install Greasemonkey first (Firefox extension) if you don’t have it already, then go to the Dungeon tab. There’s a link there to the killfile script. Follow it, there’s a link to install the script. Then you’ll get little ‘kill’ and ‘hide comment’ options next to all comments. Hide/kill to your heart’s content.
Yeah, an unfortunate bit, that. The real unfortunate part is that you should have been insulted when your church was found to be complicit in the atrocities of the Nazis, and you should have been insulted when your head Pontiff assisted in the coverup of molestation by priests, and you should and should remain insulted when your leaders oppose methods of birth control that would save the lives of millions of Africans, and you should be insulted by the million of other insults to humanity your church sees fit to inflict upon the rest of us.
But it’s pretty clear that all that matters to you people is the protection of your own beliefs and rituals, and damn the rest of the world.
Anyways, we’re all terribly sorry that your feelings are hurt. If it makes you feel better, in the time that it took me to type this, ~50 Africans were just infected with HIV. So boo-fucking-hoo, you genocide-supporting prick.
#793,
The point of Dawkins, Hitchens, and the rest of them, is that religion should not be treated with any kind of respect. Do you not pick up on the contempt in the tone of their books and debates? Professor Myers has done nothing to tarnish their goals. He has infact exemplified the behavior they wish to see bestoyed upon religion in a very dignified manner. Not all atheists have the same goals as you or feel that the goal, of removing religion, will be achieved in the same way. Your input is appreciated but I ask you to understand the message of the people you refer to before you comment on them.
Bravo, Dr. PZ.
A piece of art and reason for the ages, which I will not hold sacred!
Kisses to you
Wait, old coffeegrounds?
BLASPHEMY!!!
Those should be tea-leaves dammit!
May Russell’s teapot strike you down for your disgusting heathen choice of caffeinated beverage!
What next? Desecration of a Wedgwood set? I never thought I’d live to see such blatant anti-teapotist bigotry from a so-called college professor.
The picture is reminiscent of the Dutch artists, from the 17 century, who were masters of still life.
PZ, in a word — BRILLIANT!
–S.
Look, I am just over joyed that PZ has referred to us as his acolytes. Damn, it feels good!
The only hate crime would be if P.Z. lost his professorship because of the idiocy of the Catholic League
Posted by Rose:
“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.”
So *that’s* what was up with the banana!
-TTm
Haven’t time to sift through all the comments to see if anybody has already made these points; please forgive if I’m being redundant.
1) The fact that no Muslims have bothered you over this is not any endorsement of their comparative tolerance; it’s merely a demonstration of your principle that pious people are not actually opposed to desecration, only desecration of their particular symbols. Now that you have actually thrown away some pages from a Koran, I would not be surprised to see the Muslims join the fray.
2) It’s unfortunate that you should choose to drive a nail through the Host, as that reinforces their silly stories about desecration. If you had wanted to reinforce your position about it being nothing but a cracker, the most appropriate thing to do with it would be what one does with any ordinary cracker: namely, unceremoniously eat it. (Preferably with Cheese Whiz, an approximate match in terms of palatability.)
“I knew the first thing that would happen is that the loons would claim it is a fake cracker. The one I chose to photograph is one that the sender actually provided video documentation of where it came from.
Not that there’s any substantial difference between the consecrated and unconsecrated version.”
ROTFLMAO!
The God Delusion? You bastard!
I used to be an atheist. PZ is my god now. RAmen.
Hey PZ can I get that picture on a T-shirt?
To st Luke and all the rest who keep posting this crap. It ain’t gonna work! Fucking idiots.
At any time, your silly posts can be removed. I’m guessing they are being left up just to show how utterly stupid and crazy you all are. Oh, and the sever has not crashed. Hmmmmm…
Stop quivering in fear like frightened children and get your stupid, god-soaked heads out of your asses and join the real world. You never know, you just might like it.
“Nothing must be held sacred.” …excepting, of course, the tenet that nothing must be held sacred.
Jesus never answered me when I asked for his help when a priest, a “close, family friend”, fucked me and my sisters when we were kids. In fact, he did the opposite. One of his “men on earth” branded me a hysterical liar and my parents were dumb enough to believe him. The catholic church concealed his well documented paedophilia for years – it all finally came out in a court case 18 months ago – not just us but dozens of kids, and the church knew it but just kept moving him around from parish to parish. He’s now doing time, and I haven’t spoken to my family for 10 years. Catholicy? You have a lot to answer for.
I think the page from the God Delusion in there was a particularly nice touch, especially since it asserts your opposition to dogma.
I think many people of faith don’t realize that we, secular humanists, don’t hold stuff sacred.
JoJo, I hesitate to say this but…for an alleged former Captain you aren’t very bright. But hey, you were Navy. I remember squid officers like you back in the day. I pity those who had the misfortune to be under your command.
How about some light reading? Try, The Christians as the Romans Saw Them by Wilken. If you are going to be an atheist at least try not to disgrace yourself. Cheers.
Is there a weird sect of Catholicism which circumcises the heart? – llewelly
I believe so: the Novices of the Sacred Heart. The name refers to the fact that the order consists only of novices, no full brothers, since circumcising the heart is invariably fatal.
I vote that PZ be awarded both Bill Donahue’s ears, and his tail.
To all of you saying that critiquing religious ideology and assaulting and tormenting other human beings on the basis of their ethnicity are equal, here’s a newsflash: you are insane. Ethnicity is not a choice and does not in itself make any truth claims. People are born into their ethnic identity without having a say in the matter. Religion is an individual’s choice, and one which can be critiqued by others on the basis of the truth of falsity of that religion’s truth claims. There is no reasonable ground for critiquing someone on the basis of their ethnic identity. Therefore, saying that the act of PZ Myers tossing those items into a garbage can is comparable to an ethnic hate crime is absurd. Get a grip. Think a little.
LawnBoy:Brian D (#762),
Do you have that GreaseMonkey script (or a know a way for us to get it)?
Thanks
The script I use is available at:
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/4107
GreaseMonkey is available through FireFox’s add-ons.
Hope that helps.
Posted by: Pete Rooke | July 24, 2008 2:57 PM
There is something wrong with the above person. Seriously wrong.
Response to #849. Actually, you just said your first prayer and maybe that will be the first step to aid in your salvation. May God have mercy on you, my friend.
I think we should all be grateful to whoever it was who posted the copy of the ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA. Yes, perhaps it is overlong (and one posting would have been enough) but it will surely be a revelation to our erstwhile catholic visitors to see the breathtaking inanity of this document. I’m convinced that the more catholics know about the official doctrines of their faith, the more likely they are to ditch it out of pure embarassment.
BTW, where are all the schmoes who were claiming he wouldn’t have the guts to mess with the Koran?
To all of you saying that critiquing religious ideology and assaulting and tormenting other human beings on the basis of their ethnicity are equal, here’s a newsflash: you are insane. Ethnicity is not a choice and does not in itself make any truth claims. People are born into their ethnic identity without having a say in the matter. Religion is an individual’s choice, and one which can be critiqued by others on the basis of the truth or falsity of that religion’s truth claims. There is no reasonable ground for critiquing someone on the basis of their ethnic identity. Therefore, saying that the act of PZ Myers tossing those items into a garbage can is comparable to an ethnic hate crime is absurd. Get a grip. Think a little.
I would not be surprised to see the Muslims join the fray.
Yes, I’m sure that this is true. But the biggest concern should be the rage of the Banana People.
This Cracker Kerfuffle (a term I heard on the Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe) reminded me of an article I heard a while ago. It was about the catholic church in Ireland opposing a stricter drunk driving law because of the chances of priests getting arrested after performing mass.
Apparently, besides the little bit they drink during mass, they also have to finish off any unused, blessed wine. Otherwise, they’d be as ‘sinful’ as was Webster Cook. Much better that we have drunk priests driving around than desecrate the blood of christ! Here’s a link to the article.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2007/1102/1193444384351.html
Perfect post.
Humans don’t lack the will to work towards change–in this case, to keep focused on denying respect for ridiculously primitive religious beliefs, while respecting at the same time the right to profess religious beliefs. Instead, we find it difficult to maintain awareness of the situation we want to change. So that will be the purpose of this post for me, when I get lax in keeping up my fever-pitched ridiculing of religious beliefs, I will re-read this post and be aware of why it is important to ridicule ridiculous beliefs at every possible chance.
Nincompoop in London wrote: Those that eat the host are proclaiming “I am part of the Church and I believe in what it teaches and we are all one in Christ.
Let me translate that for us: Those that eat a tasteless, shitty cracker are proclaiming, “I am part of an criminal organization and I support and encourage its criminal intentions and activities and we are all one in dangerous delusion.”
Interesting….
____________________________
anthropic, in a way you are right. He has done a disservice to your cause. However, your own prejudice betrays you. Those delusional cretins you bemoan are your fellow atheists. They also share your beliefs. They agree with your bigoted attitudes towards Christians. PZ shows us the true face behind the facade. Behind the mask is a sneer. Once you pierce that thin crust of geniality a scalding lava of hatred pours out. He is just out of the closet. You are no different from him, you just hide it better.
Posted by: Fr. J | July 24, 2008 5:08 PM
_________________________________________
You are in need of some serious therapy. Your delusion that Atheist all think alike is akin to someone thinking all green eyed people think alike. It’s absurd. It’s been stated about a hundred time before but let me say it again…ATHEISM IS NOT A SET OF BELIEFS.
The only thing Atheists have in common with other Atheists is that we don’t believe in deities. That’s it. Some Atheists are passive, some are not. Some Atheist are in favor of gun ownership rights, some are anti-gun, some Atheists are are pro-war, some are anti-war, some Atheists are pro-choice, some are anti-abortion, some Atheists are nice, some are not so nice…the list goes on and on and on.
I am no more inclined to be similar to the other Atheist you meet than I am to be similar to the other green eyed women you meet. Your prejudice is just another example of your religion’s failure to teach it’s flock to be ethical beings.
Fr. J says,
The irony.
Used to be Catholic, Jesus tastes terrible, that’s why they hand out the wine to was him down with.
i am sure xtian loonies will think twice before linking to this post for propaganda…The post is sublime…it would be wonderful to be a student in your class.
Sandi, pedophiles are PEDOPHILES. Meaning they like children.
They are not gay.
I feel like there’s no point in posting a comment; as post 6xx in the crowd, it won’t likely be noticed much but here goes.
Jesus said (supposedly) “take eat, this is my body.” and “take drink, this is my blood.”, and this has become a major foundation of many/most Christian religions, that it is in some way literally true.
Jesus also said, “I am the vine, and you are the branches.” and yet, there seems to be no belief in our transubstantiation into branches. I fail to see how one can pick and choose which (supposed) words of Christ are literally true, and which are interpreted to be metaphor.
Why, even if you are a true believer in the divinity of Christ, can you not believe that Christ was saying, in essence, “take eat, this is a symbol of my body…take drink, this is a symbol of my blood….Do this as a ritual to remind yourselves of me and the things I have done and will do for you.”?
It seems like many Christian faiths paint themselves into unnecessary corners, by firmly anchoring their faith on essentially unimportant precepts, such as the virgin birth, the immaculate conception, and transubstantiation. Perhaps it is because flexibility leads to questions, which lead to thoughts, and those just mess up everything where religion is concerned.
What type of “scholarly” debate is there to be had Adam, about religion? You believe in fairies, we don’t, end of story. Neither side can convince the other, so that’s that.
What can be debated is the actual, physical effects of religions on people, throughout history and now. I don’t need to go over all the killings done in the name of religion in the past and to this very day. It’s telling that apparently there are plenty of people who’re willing to threaten the family of an evil cracker abuser and send him death threats. On the other hand, it is preposterous to even think that an atheist professor is going to do anything other then berate a student who decided to burn a science book or some other science object. For atheists, there are no objects that are as important as people, like sacred objects are for the religious. That’s kind of the point.
They are just paper.
You aren’t recycling?!
I’m calling on all liberal, hippy, tree-hugging, elitists to call down the wrath of the Libeal League on to you and your ivory tower academia!!!
Uhm… tommorow, I have to get ready for yoga right now.
Oh wait, tomorrow is Swimming with Otters…
Well, someday! Someday you will feel the full wrath of the Liberal Leage and you’ll convert your non-recycling ways!
I felt a great tremor in the Force…
Oh, never mind. It was just a cosmic typo.
o^aBravo sir!
Sadly, you have become post #875.
Well… Looks like st Luke’s et. all. have indeed been removed – during the time I wrote my post above.
As I said, they can be removed at any time … and were!
–JK–
Hm.. this all seems rather childish. I am sure the point of this silliness was relayed somewhere in this hectic mess of sensationalism, but I missed it. I am sure it is something in the vein of “they started it”.
I think all catholics and Christians of good will need to pray for this poor man and take this as the sign of the times that it is that it is NOT finished, but the beginning of persecution of all people of faith, but in particular Catholics.
Hitler may have first come for the communists, and finished with the Jews, but in America, in the west,they are starting with anyone who stands against the emerging Culture of Death, and quit frankly….only the Catholic church truly stands against them.
So it begins.
d~
Sanctimonious Sandi wrote:
Oh, the sweet, sweet irony…
Well done PZ!
I’m worried this’ll get you in a bit of hot water with the anti-cartoon brigade but I’ll be more than happy to contribute to a protection fund! ;p
They still haven’t grasped that what happens on Pharyngula is not connected to the University, have they?
Le-yawn. It’s your American right to do this and the Catholic’s American right to be outraged. Their American right to believe in God, your American right to think it’s all menudo. I’ve fought for your right to do it and I’ve fought for our right to be angry about it.
Am I Catholic? Yes sir. Am I angry? Yes Sir. Is it going to shake my faith? No sir. All in all, the gesture was as pointless as a man shitting in his own yard – it might be unsightly to the neighbors but the stink is yours alone to behold.
Cheers, PZ
re: pete rooke #310
3) Young ladies like to wear an item of clothing called a mini-skirt these days. The material is often sheer and by its definition does not even come close to covering the knee roll.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniskirt)
Now if someone chooses to wear such an item it does not in the least bit make rape and sexual abuse permissible despite the fact that the odds increase exponentially. In both the eyes of the secular law and of my religion the assailants are still just as culpable.
Young ladies like to wear an item of clothing ca
Okay. First off, your analogies suck ass. That is probably the reason why no one bothered to respond to them. I wouldn’t respond to them, either.
BUT:
Besides the absolutely freakish logical tangent that got you from crackers to mini-skirts (seriously, wtf is your problem?), your underlying assumptions and rationales for your statements are so fundamentally asinine that I’m quite literally amazed.
No, the material is not often sheer. Only in your heavily denied fantasies do women wear Saran Wrap mini-skirts. Apparently, voluminous women, because I sure as hell do not have rolls at my knees.
Rape and sexual abuse is not correlated with any type of clothing. Where are the alter boys wearing mini-skirts? Or even those at prison wearing mini-skirts?
Rape and sexual abuse is tied with violence, domination, and the lack of decency in a person.
I couldn’t give a shit what you wear, I wouldn’t rape you or sexually abuse you.
I have never befriended nor dated a guy that would do these things, either.
Thank you, you fucking asshole, for blaming the victims of these heinous crimes for apparently provoking attacks from dipshits like you. How dare you. And don’t say that you put in that disclaimer that the assailants are culpable–reading in between the lines, it is clear where you truly stand. “What a bad thing for the guy to do, but the girl was asking for it.” You miserable twat.
The God Delusion was a really nice touch. I love it. You’re absolutely right. Nothing should be held sacred. Words on a piece paper, crackers, and the such are just not that important. Life is important and Freedom is important. Particularly freedom of speech. People have a right to express themselves without being harassed, receiving death threats, being intimidated by threats to their employment, etc. The more people who assert this right the better. Why? Because it will make it that much harder for threats and intimidations from the religious to work. Well done, PZ.
That’s nice.
Of course, you have evidence to back this up, right? Some way of telling that this is reality and not lunacy?
*sigh*.
As long as Dr. Myers continues to do a good job teaching his courses, is a good academic citizen with regard to committee work and meetings and such, does some research that involves undergraduates in a meaningful way, and refrains from antagonizing, molesting, or harming individual students, the administration of the University of Minnesota will not care what he does in his spare time with his personal blog, Ineffable Baked Goods, squids, or anything else.
And nor should they. What a waste of time.
#883 dina624:
The irony of a Christian using “Culture of Death” disparagingly of another group is surely lost on you, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
I couldn’t be more pleased with how you did it, I wouldn’t have thought to throw the God Delusion in there–way to keep EVERYBODY honest.
I am beginning to believe that the ONE thing that religious belief might have as a benefit is… it obviously CREATES some form of physics breaking time creation effect. I say this because, *I* have never had enough time to come up with some of the ultra insane stuff that I see these folks post, or bitch about. I mean, REALLY, do any of them have the free time to relax or REALLY enjoy life?
Vishnudammit, PZ, I WAS being productive today. Now I’m sucked into this hilarity.
In other news, according to my spell checker, hilarity is a word. Funny that.
War Over Nothing!
The logic of the Catholic League is to make the world a worse place than it is.
How does this work?
Someone says something they don’t like, they raise a fuss, it causes some of the crazies in their ranks to send death threats.
Lets see Bill Donohue war causality count so far.
1. College Student receiving death threats.
2. College Student possibly getting expelled from school.
3. Professor Gets Death Threats
4. Threatening Professor’s job.
5. Woman gets fired from Flowers.com because of crazy hubby sending death threats.
See what your Church does?? People involved in catholicism should be totally ashamed of themselves for representing such an odious set of ideas and hatred. It’s ruining lives even as we speak.
Rayven, why are you unconcerned with the fact that not all religions are the same? In fact Catholicism is very different from fundamentalist baptist. BUT you insist on acting as if we were all the same. You bring up incidents from a thousand years ago and act as if it is current. Then you object when we point out atheist misbehavior from yesterday. You claim that is just individuals who happen to be atheists. If I claimed that about us you would object. Atheism is a belief and cannot be proven objectively. It has consequences and we have seen them. They are unpleasant. Are you not disturbed by the bigotry expressed here? I am right. It is a bit forthright for some, but you do think that way about us. When I see atheists objecting to the incredibly foul language, insults, bigotry etc. that I see here then you can lecture me on ethics.
We are going in circles folks. It is been proven scientifically right before my eyes that atheists are indeed bigoted and hateful towards religious people. Just read their posts. Myers has created animosity and pain. Some of you like that and therefore prove my point. He is a sick sad little man and so are his worshipers. Pax
Have I mentioned that PZ does a great service to the society? Because he does, and ever so eloquently. The secularist movement needs more people like him.
Perfect! Both the essay, and the performance piece. (Nice touch, Comfort’s banana…)
Fixed.
Fr J @ 823
Um….sorry, but you are wrong. I harbor not hatred. I just think you’re a complete moron whose arguments simply don’t add up. I’m not hiding anything. I grew up in a strictly Catholic household, went to a Catholic elementary school, Catholic high school, and graduated from a major Catholic university. I soaked in the stuff. Theology was forced down our throats.
I simply do not accept ANYTHING as true without evidence. Period. It’s as simple as that. I do not believe writing cobbled together thousands of years ago by a bunch of bronze age desert dwellers and filled with hate and contradiction is the word of some deity.
I cannot prove there isn’t a God. All I know is that there is zero evidence of one. I’d rather spend my life exploring nature and the universe in a rational manner than accept stories that have no substance as fact.
No, it is my job to decide the meaning in my own life. It is my job to decide what I will do with my life.
Religion makes up answers.
I’m sorry to break this to you, but as far as we know, nothing is eternal. Each of us will eventually die, and even this planet will eventually be gone.
Religion was made up by primitive people who could not otherwise explain things like disease, crop failures, or lightning. It was a way to deal with fear of the unknown. Why do you still need that? You are like a child who cannot give up his security blanket.
# 868 philiph, Thank you for that link. I found it quite interesting.
I begs the question, if holy wine truly is turned into Jebus blood, why does it still get them drunk? Kind of debunks their whole claim right there, don’t it? Duh.
Perhaps all that blood drinking/getting drunk is why they are able to spout what they do. Does anyone realize they are sitting there listening to the ramblings of a bunch of drunk people?
My youngest son came up with this gem of wisdom when he was a wee boy of six and we were studying religious history….
“I think humans invented religion because they took drugs and saw things they could not explain.”
or something to that affect, in small-boy-talk. We were discussing our theories of when and why humans first developed religious beliefs.
Well done, PZ.
Response to Rose at 864
Incorrect. I prayed often as a religiously raised child. Even then I found the whole shebang questionable but decided to do my own research, which led inevitably to atheism. Reason works.
-TTm
hmmm – we’re approaching 300 comments/hr here, almost 5 each minute.
Is this a local record?
I haven’t seen a Guiness Book in several years – do they have a blogistics category? Could this be a world record?
Prof. Myers may have escaped this escapade virtually unscathed, but the Seed servers are surely suffering in his stead.
Inquiring minds need to know – what sins did said servers (or the anonymous techies who slave to tend them in the dark bowels of Castle Seed) commit to deserve this digital torment?
Fr. J needs a world history course, taught in a real school.
Bravo Dr. Myers!
If I had a “host” I’d join you in tossing it in the trash. As it is, I will settle for eating a hotdog bun.
Cheers!
@ #620
Why not?
BTW, well done, PZM
Oh, btw PZ. Thank You! You handled this perfectly. The symbolism was wonderful. You are a natural storyteller – as all good teachers ultimately are.
@145
“Hell laughed indeed.Did God hurt? I’m sure God wouldn’t burn in hell, but you have chosen to be. hahahahahaha you are not posting my comment, huh….where’s your son tonite?
Posted by: e.citizen | July 24, 2008 2:32 PM ”
Only took 145 comments for a threat against PZs son to appear.
Nutless freak.
An atheist just replied to me with, “So boo-fucking-hoo, you genocide-supporting prick.”
Wow. You atheists are almost as hateful as Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist “Church” which goes around protesting at funerals.
Thank you for helping to strengthen my faith in Catholicism, as atheism clearly results in nothing but a hate-filled existence. I wouldn’t want to live like that.
dina624 said: I think all catholics and Christians of good will need to pray for this poor man and take this as the sign of the times that it is that it is NOT finished, but the beginning of persecution of all people of faith, but in particular Catholics.
Let me fix that for you.
I think all catholics and Christians of good will need to pray for this poor man and take this as the sign of the times that it is that it is NOT finished, but the beginning of the RIDICULE of all people of faith, AND ALL RELIGIONS.
Ridicule is what you god nuts can expect for the rest of your pathetic lives. I wouldn’t call ridicule “persecution”, but you can call it anything you like. Just get used to it. Since 9/11/2001 being religious has become as disgraceful as being a racist. Your idiotic beliefs will never be respected again.
By the way, your “praying” is going to get ridiculed. Praying = talking to yourself = a mental illness.
I think all catholics and Christians of good will need to pray for this poor man and take this as the sign of the times that it is that it is NOT finished, but the beginning of persecution of all people of faith, but in particular Catholics.
Hitler may have first come for the communists, and finished with the Jews, but in America, in the west,they are starting with anyone who stands against the emerging Culture of Death, and quit frankly….only the Catholic church truly stands against them.
So it begins.
d~
Alas, Donahue is still being an attention whore. Whore somewhere else, ok? Somewhere where people are actually getting hurt or are going hungry perhaps?
I just can’t get over how the damage to the books really bugs me. Especially a hardcover book (religious, science, politics, fiction whatever). I am shamed by my lack of irreverence.
Won’t someone think of the book binders!
other Nicole: “All in all, the gesture was as pointless as a man shitting in his own yard – it might be unsightly to the neighbors but the stink is yours alone to behold.”
You’ve got the part about rights down, but I don’t agree with your quote above. It DOES make a difference to people who are on the fence with losing their faith. It does make them sit up and say, “wait, I believed what? Hmm, maybe that is a bit silly.” Having been in that situation myself once, such an example would have been helpful in looking at things rationally, rather than being morally torn between tradition and reason.
BTW, if you are Catholic, and I am atheist, does that make me Evil Nicole? And if so, do I have to grow a goatee?
Haw Haw! – Jack T. Chick
I guess that makes us even, because for an alleged priest and supposed college graduate you’re very stupid yourself. Plus you’re a patronizing, pompous prig.
Thanks for proving you’re a patronizing, pompous prig.
Why don’t you do some reading yourself. Geoffrey Parker. The Thirty Years’ War. London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1984. You might learn about how in the 17th Century your pet religion helped kill about 1/3 of the population of what’s now Germany and the Czech Republic.
Whereas you disgrace yourself continually by being a patronizing, pompous prig.
Well-written and thorough. This blog post should be required reading.
You might want to consider collecting some of these moments in book form, PZ. I hear there’s something of a market these days for so-called “New Athiest” literature and a collection of some of your better rants (especially this one) would be excellent in dead-tree form.
I think I have to read this again …
Oh, man. Citing wikipedia? That’s adding insult to injury.
I wonder if the Conservapedia article starts with the 21st century? Or maybe it goes back to the 13th century, but adds on, “Well yeah, but Stalin was the worst ever”?
I just spent a day escorting a priest who grew up in the former Soviet Union and now is back there serving the post-Soviet Catholics. He personally knew martyrs for the faith at the hands of the Soviet atheists, people who died in the gulags of the Soviet Union. Your intolerance seems to have much in common with that state atheism. Religion is to be exterminated, beginning with its ideas and symbols.
It is well and good to condemn theocratic societies of the past, no one except the Moslem extremists believe in them today anyway, but I would not want to live in an atheocratic society with men such as yourself in charge. Trampling the host as a mark of contempt is a very short distance from destroying houses of worship (as the Nazis and Communists did, and the Chinese communists still do) and ultimately killing believers, as still occurs in China, Sudan and many other places. If we are only the product of evolution, why not? Survival of the fittest would permit the fit to destroy the weak. Why not impose your lack of belief on others? You have already shown yourself capable of it in principle, by the thorough and absolute contempt you have shown for the opinions and symbols of others.
Enjoy your fifteen minites of fame, professor. When it is over you will return to being nothing, and I presume you take that as a dictum. “Sit transit gloria mundi.”
AHHHHH!!!! My hands!!!! AHHH! You stabbed a rusty nail through my…
Oh wait, never mind, it’s a cracker, not my hand. Sorry, false alarm, my bad ).
T
I made a short video of your desecration “Trash can” picture PZ.
I’m catholic. I don’t have the time to read your long dissertation, but my thought is that I bet you wouldn’t have had the cajones to do what you did or have done or are going to do, if you didn’t have tenure.
As always, Pharyngula is a great read.
For anyone interested in more discussion on the absurdities of religion, I’d like to plug http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php
In particular, read the brilliant and amusing series of posts by kcrady at http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=23.0
PZ said: Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything.
Even evolution ???
“Nobody has to believe it is the body of Christ for the act of consecration is a public act perfomed by a Catholic priest.”
It isn’t public in the Orthodox church. Or doesn’t that count?
The great desecration?
He calls what he has done ‘the great desecration’.
He took a host from a catholic Mass and desecrated it.
>Christ have mercy< But he is a creature of pride. He doesn't know the humble God of the universe who he seeks to desecrate. This God who would rush to his side in a New York minute if he would but ask. Certainly this is outrageous...but as far as desecrations committed by this man, I would hardly call it the greatest. His life is filled with desecrations, small and great...this is simply the most public one. No one becomes as Godless, and amoral as this human being with out first completely and ruthlessly desecrating his own soul beyond recognition of what it first was, the image of God...beautiful and pure. Now, he stand, with a corpse for a soul...and dares to call what he did to a Holy God who in spite of what HE did is still Holy and incorrupt...and filled with loving longing for this man soul... No...the great desecration is that this man is doing all he can to throw himself into hell, and that breaks the heart of God. You poor poor man. d~
Mr. J (Mr because I have a father already) is trying real hard to persuade himself that PZ and commenters here hate people who happen to be Catholics, by equating ridicule with hatred. The pathetic jerk baits and switchs so egregiously that it must be a miracle that the fool hasn’t collapsed in a tizzy of dizziness yet.
If I may misquote ‘The West Wing’: “if they’re spamming you with papal encyclicals you know you must be doing something right”. May FSM bless you PZ, a masterly monograph.
I’ll be drinking a beer in honor of your brilliant post tonight, PZ. But, then again, I was going to be drinking a beer tonight anyway.
God have mercy on you, and us all.
If you’re so uncaring, why do this? Your lack of respect for other people who do no harm to you us saddening. I’m sorry you have to be so angry.
Thanks for the good work PZ. Now I only wish you would have thrown something Jewish out with the trash as well.
Nicely done, PZ.
would Jesus forgive PZ Myers?
quit being hypocritical to your faith theists
and to PZ, i applaud you – i would have put a tiny crown of thorns on it. is that evil?
I’ve been avoiding commenting in these threads because I know what a headache they’ve been causing you, PZ.
I doubt you’ll even be reading this, as it is just one of what will be thousands of posts, I’m sure.
But I do have to say: well written, and well done.
man all this stuff about catholics prosecuting jews is so ‘constantines sword’ (great book and movie; check it out guys).
somewhere meatloaf is crying while singing ‘is nothing sacred anymore’.
Wow. My irony meter exploded at this point.
I’ll tell you what, ya’ll come let me know when the Catholics stop going coo-coo for crackers in the comments. Until then, I’ll just stick to reading PZ’s posts – where the level of insanity tends toward zero.
You know, I used to think that religion made people hateful, inflexible, and crazy. And now… not much different.
re #930. Take heart from this verse:
He spoke unto his believers, unto his believers he spake thusly: Never shalt I give thee up, Never shalt thee be let down. Neither wilt I run around and desert thee. Never shalt I make thee cry, nor unto thee say goodbye, never shalt I tell thee a lie and hurt thee. (Rich. 7:14)
And thank you for helping to strengthen my confidence in atheism, as christianity clearly results in nothing but a hate-filled, irrational, and time-squandering existence. I wouldn’t want others to live like that.
Is that it? No super plan to construct a Darth Star and destroy planets? Awww…
Very well written and point well made! As usual.
Wow, all you atheists are so simple-mindedly easy to entertain. I’m laughing at your adolescent celebrations because the irony of PZ’s sermon is lost on you……
Your Lord and Master even admits to being incapable of coming up with an original desecration idea – he lifted the idea to “stab the host” from an old woodcut. What a revolutionary!!!!!!!
From the few photos I’ve seen of the Prophet PZ I’m surprised there weren’t the remains of a Big Mac, biggie fries and extra large diet coke in the trash can. Wait, maybe that’s why he looks the way he does in his photos.
PZ said: Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything.
Even evolution ???
=======
Yes! You get it!
Except, something tells me you don’t.
Best. Pharyngula. Post. Ever.
I’m glad you spent time to put the whole affair into context with the historical rantings and lunacy surrounding the Host.
I forsee a future in which Host Tragedies are once again produced. But this time, they’ll be high budget affairs with Mel Gibson directing them.
I wonder who will be cast as PZ?
Randy Stimpson said: PZ said: Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything.
Even evolution ???
That above all! If you can scientifically demonstrate the weaknesses in evolution, by all means do so. PZ has shown the weakness in the wafe-as-body-of-Christ argument.
And by the way, PZ, Styrofoam actually tastes better than the wafers. Then again, maybe Lutheran wafers don’t taste as good as Roman Catholic ones. I think I’d desecrate one with some peanut butter and jelly.
…And yet somehow ranting about a wafer is more important, more ‘Christian’, than feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, and tending to the needy?
The reaction herein to PZ’s act is justification of the act itself. Examine your own actions first. Remove the plank from your own eyes before you attend to the speck of dust you see here.
Hypocrites.
“PZ said: Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything.
Even evolution ???”
That’s right. Demand evidence. Oh wait, that’s what science already DOES!
John Lewandowski (#913), you make a good point about bad language some people use (including myself), but don’t forget that your religion has a long bloody history that includes genocide (see PZ’s comments at the top of this thread). There’s a big difference between an atheist calling a stupid asshole Catholic a “stupid asshole”, and murdering people because they’re weren’t Catholics or because they showed disrespect for a cracker.
In my opinion, if Catholics had any moral values at all, they would throw out their religion because it has a history of atrocities. You should throw out your religion for the same reason Muslims should throw out their religion. What decent person would want to be associated with so much terrorism, including both Catholic and Muslim terrorism.
Randy @928:
Even evolution ???
Yes, of course. Evolution is not sacred. It’s merely the best explanation we have for the diversity of life on Earth. Nothing else comes close to matching its explanatory and predictive power.
How do we know? By questioning it.
Fixed.
Congratulations, PZ, on an eloquent gesture. And thank you for including the pages from The God Delusion. It’s only a book.
If I had any doubts about the rightness of what you did, they were dispelled by reading the fatuous, pathetic, ignominious, abjectly stupid protests of Catholics writing in protest. Either they really believe the wafer is Jesus, in which case they are idiots. Or they don’t, in which case they are hypocritical hysterics. Either way, they deserve to be insulted. Congratulations on doing so.
Bravo PZ.
Richard
PZ. Just wanted to say that since “crackergate” began, I have been a lurker, just reading and generally enjoying the comments (yes, I have read EVERY SINGLE COMMENT !!). As an Atheist, I was all for your actions, but was a little concerned that you might actually do something that would be denegrating to the “atheist movement” (for want of a better phrase).
I apologize, totally, sincerely and unreservedly. I shouldn’t have underestimated your intelligence – what you have done his is absolutely and totally perfect, and illustrates your point with a clarity that, frankly, deserves a far greater audience than even this amazingly popular blog will get. Is there enough comments and emails for “Crackergate – the book” ?
As commenter number 43 said – this is the first time I’ve applauded a blog entry. Well done, sir. You have given all sane people something to be rejoice in.
Rog
I’m having sex with a cracker RIGHT NOW…
…
…
…
*whew*
Finished
/standing ovation
This is an incredible post you have made here. Thank you.
This is not even CLOSE to over. This has barely started. I hope you are prepared for the storm that this will cause.
Absolutely brilliant speech, PZ.
And you were right: the cracker got exactly what it deserved – a crack, a fizzle and a puff of logic, not unlike God in the Babelfish argument.
The speech alone is worth more than the entire cracker.
Well done :)
Well, PZ, I have to give you a load of credit for having some awful big cojones.
Personally, I’m just going to eat some popcorn and watch the drama unfold.
Kudos to Bill Donahue–go get him, Tiger! Donahue’s analogies were great. Would a University stand for it if one of its professors donned a white hood, burned a cross on his front lawn, said “I hate Niggers”, and posted that film on the Internet? No. The University would fire him. Would a University stand for it if one of its professors posted a picture of himself wearing a swastika t-shirt with “Jews Suck” emblazoned thereon, ripping a Torah, and placing it in the trash bin with a side of ham? No. The University would fire him. It’s time to treat Catholics with the same respect. Fire the bum!!! Myers didn’t keep his hatred and bigotry to himself–he posted it on the Internet for all the world to see. That made it the University’s business; that made it fair game in terms of firing him. Who wants such an immature bigot teaching our students? I’d be willing to guess that he subtly or not-so-subtly carries over his prejudices into the classroom. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that he mocks Catholics and other Christians in his classroom. (Heck, I heard at least 3 public school teachers insult Catholics during classtime when I was a kid.) Or perhaps he gives his Catholic students lower grades when they stand up for their religion? We just don’t know. The bottom line is, a puerile, adolescent, hate-filled bigot should not hold a position as a professor at any reputable University. I call on the students to boycott his classes, the teachers to yell for his resignation, and the University to fire him. And to all his dumb-ass groupies on this website, you should recognize that the Catholic Church is the single largest charitable provider in the WORLD. Don’t discount the amazing love and kindness the Church shows the world each day simply because a handful of homosexual priests broke their vows. The VAST majority of priests have remained faithful to their vows and have sacrificed their lives to help other people. I’m wasting my breath, though. Closed-minded bigots will never change.
I’ll echo Professor Dawkins in giving a “Huzzah!” for blasphemy and desecration.
Myers: Thanks for giving us your take on the Year 1215. Did you know we’re now in the year 2008? Maybe you didn’t get the memo. If I follow your “logic” correctly, the Catholic Church did a few things you didn’t like in the year 1215, so you feel justified today in desecrating Catholic property and intentionally baiting Catholics? Talk about holding a grudge. I think society in general was a little rough in the middle ages–not just the Catholic Church. I think people have gotten much more civilized over the centuries. Most of us have, anyway. You’re obviously still a brutish, uncivilized, dumb ass. If we follow your analogy, any non-Christians (including atheists) who committed brutal acts in the year 1215 or otherwise should be punished today–in 2008. Wow, you just set yourself up!
Did you not know that professors deem themselves God, but hey I would like to see and I mean any walk on water. Here is a quote from the Bible ‘Jesus Christs own words unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you shall not have life in you, and he that eats my flesh and drinks my blood hath life everlasting and I will raise them up on the last day. The masses left all except the Apostles and when he said won’t you leave too? They answered to who shall we go Lord you have the words of eternal life. Now Daniel when the daily sacrifice which is offered up throughout the world from the coming up to the setting of the sun is cancelled, Pray tell who is offering up the Daily sacrifice from the coming up to the setting of the sun? The Catholic Church.
Nice work on the not reading things, Sandi at #964. Check out #836, dimbulb.
And a sadly over-rated attempt at bad philosophy.
Hahaha Donahue God’s needs science to protect him he can be taken down by tetanus
sandi, sandi, sandi, you ignorant, hyperventilating sl**, there is no hatred involved because nobody outside your fellow cultists believes there’s anything magical about some stupid effing cracker.
Get over it.
I’m trying to figure out whether it’s adorable or horrifying that you think there was such a thing as non-Catholic segment of society in the European Dark Ages.
Baba 967: You’re right, it is “a sadly over-rated attempt at bad philosophy”. It’s pretty good as good philosophy, though.
The fake Fr J wrote…..
__________________________________________
Rayven, why are you unconcerned with the fact that not all religions are the same? In fact Catholicism is very different from fundamentalist baptist. BUT you insist on acting as if we were all the same. You bring up incidents from a thousand years ago and act as if it is current. Then you object when we point out atheist misbehavior from yesterday. You claim that is just individuals who happen to be atheists. If I claimed that about us you would object. Atheism is a belief and cannot be proven objectively. It has consequences and we have seen them. They are unpleasant. Are you not disturbed by the bigotry expressed here? I am right. It is a bit forthright for some, but you do think that way about us. When I see atheists objecting to the incredibly foul language, insults, bigotry etc. that I see here then you can lecture me on ethics.
We are going in circles folks. It is been proven scientifically right before my eyes that atheists are indeed bigoted and hateful towards religious people. Just read their posts. Myers has created animosity and pain. Some of you like that and therefore prove my point. He is a sick sad little man and so are his worshipers. Pax
Posted by: Fr. J | July 24, 2008 5:33 PM
__________________________________________
First of all, please quote where I said those things. I didn’t actually say them? Hmmmmmmm
So, even after I made a clear point you still think all Atheists think with one mind? Guess what? We don’t. My views to not represent anyone other than ME ME ME ME. Likewise, someone else’s views do not represent me, they represent THEM THEM THEM THEM. I know it’s terribly hard for you to grasp, since you’ve been brainwashed to think that all catholics think with one brain, but Atheist do not all think alike. Some of us even hate each other.
You haven’t a clue what my feelings are about the various religions beyond what tiny bit I have posted in these threads. I do not feel all religious people are dangerous or abusive, just some of them. I do not feel all religions are created equal, but I do lump Abrahamic religions together because they came form the same place. Then ,I segregate them into the splinters they became. To be honest, it is my opinion that catholicism is one of the most vile of the offspring, but that is just my opinion and I won’t debate the issue. You are free to disagree.
To stomp on another absurdity, there was no “Atheist misbehavior” in recent times, as has also been pointed out a hundred times over. There may have been a few evil people who claimed to be Atheists who did awful things down through history, but it wasn’t sanctioned by the great tribe of Atheism…because there’s not one! What religious organizations have done though,is to sanction evil acts and as a religious body help to perpetrate atrocities. The Catholic church has corenered the market on sanctioning atrocities and helping to carry out genocide. It was not one Catholic who did an evil thing, or one despot who happened to be catholic…it was a religious organization made of of millions of people who, as a unified force, sanctioned and carried out evil. You choose to be part of this organization and are responsible for what it has done/will do. I am not part of any Church of Atheism and therefor what some other Atheist does is not a reflection upon me. We are individuals who don’t believe in deities, that’s it.
So please stop trying to correlate Atheism with what some evil despot did…Atheism had nothing to do with it and I have no connection what-so-ever to some evil nutjob from the past who happened to have been an Atheist. No more than I have a connection to some evil (or good) person from the past who happened to have green eyes.
Try again to grasp that. C’mon, you can do it.
Throw the rest of the crackers into a duck pond. St. Francis may very likely approve, and betide blessings upon your land.
Oh, and does anyone else find it ironic that the Atheists here actually care what fate the cracker met?
Given that PZ’s entire point was that “it’s just a cracker, people!!”, the disposal of this cracker shouldn’t be celebrated any more than the disposal of any other food remains.
If you celebrate this as a triumph, you grant the object power. You acknowledge that it has special status, and that the point of this is to rile the religous, rather than deny them any special status. You become as much of a hypocrite as the Catholics who fail to turn the other cheek.
By all means commend the original (rather excellent) post. Don’t however commend the act which is ultimately meaningless and utterly without consequence.
“Would I post here if I cared what atheists thought of me?”
Then what are you doing here? You desperately care what atheists think of you, or you wouldn’t expend so much effort in trying to change the way they think. Your faith is as weak as your arguments.
Am I the only one who sees the irony in a group of people who worship a man who was condemned to death for blasphemy condemning another man for the same thing?
And lest some confuse this statement as comparing PZ Myers to Jesus Christ, I’m not. I’m comparing Catholics to the Roman Empire.
Yes, but the Catholic Church was established by God and therefore should be held to higher standards than the prevailing society. In fact, we should expect perfection. On the other hand, if the Catholic Church was a man-made creation, then it’s reasonable to expect that it reflects the society at large.
A woodcut from Brussels.
“In 1370 in Brussels, the charge of host desecration, long celebrated in a special fest and depicted in artistic relics in the Church of St. Gudule, led to the extermination of the Jews of the city.”
For the sake of a cracker, you Catholics massacred real live people.
Dustin,
There are Non-Catholics segments in the middle ages (Cathar and Pagans spring to mind). Problem is they all got slaughtered by the cracker worshipers.
Nuff said
Words can hardly express how ridiculous the whole situation is.
Why on earth am I supposed to care that catholics are offended by, of all things, host desecration, something that materially affects nobody, while the Catholic Church persists in its opposition to birth control, divorce, abortion, stem cell research, all of which are irrational, deeply immoral, and DO materially affect me?
Keep it up Catholics. You’ve lost the moral high ground so thoroughly, pretty much any complaint you make lapses immediately into self-parody. You all can earn our respect by cleaning up your act and joining us here in the real world.
AHAHAHA.
THE FIRST COMMENT IS A, “MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.”
Also, #964 needs to read more than the first few paragraphs. And should also probably note the death threats PZ has been receiving from COWARDLY BIGOTED CATHOLICS in 2008.
I doubt observation and rational has ever been one of Sandi’s strengths.
@ # 930 dina624,
I believe you should take the title, “the great desecration” to be sarcastic
Nicely done, PZ.
#972 Some of us even hate each other.
You seem to pretty much have the hate thing down
Did you also know that empty cans make the loudest noise? Clang Clang
> virtually inedible crackers in my possession.
Have you tried maple sirup? I find that a lot of things that would be otherwise virtually inedible starts tasting reasonably good with maple sirup (that or spicy sauce depending on taste).
“Nobody has to believe it is the body of Christ for the act of consecration is a public act perfomed by a Catholic priest.”
It isn’t public in the Orthodox church. Or doesn’t that count?
++++++++++++
Stupid question.
Here’s a better one. How did he get that nail through the “cracker’ without it fragmenting? The communion hots are very brittle as anyone familiar with them knows.
Looks like a big fake to me.
Good job, PZ! I wondered if it would be something as simple as throwing a stale cracker into the trash where it belongs.
I’m guessing some Catholic is going to claim a Eucharistic Miracle. They will rescue it from the trash and it will have been bleeding!!!! Then the blood will be analyzed but, alas, it will have been cow blood from the steak PZ had last night. Catholics will ignore that and claim it was type AB blood. Exactly the type of blood found on the shroud of Turin!!!
Yes, I have been following these threads too closely.
And, Pete Rooke, you are still a very disturbed person. Maybe you’ve been watching too many Hannibal Lecter movies?
You’re an inspiration, PZ Myers.
Thank you.
Bravo sir, bravo!
Nothing must be held sacred.
So why is your opinion an exception to the rule that nothing is sacred?
That is some crazy, dogmatic hypocrisy you have going there…
Wonder who will get post #1000
Thanks again for the Greasemonkey script!
“How did he get that nail through the “cracker’ without it fragmenting? The communion hots are very brittle”
I’m thinking one drop of water right in the center of Jesus, er the wafer would make it more accommodating of the nail.
TG
The only thing worse than being a troll is being a boring one.
This is what I find amazing: a majority of the justices on the United States Supreme Court subscribe to this crackers theory.
Just want to add my voice to the maddening throng–nice job, P.Z., even though I too am one of the group here who are irrationally disturbed by the image of pages torn out of books.
I’ll get over it.
@ Clayton,
When did he say his opinion was to be held sacred? Dumbass.
BobC, when are you going to throw away your atheism because of what Mao did? Or do you deny that Mao was an atheist, just like the absurd claims that Hitler was a Catholic? Everyone remembers that Hitler murdered 6 million Jews, but everyone seems to forget about his 3 million Polish Catholic victims. Whoops?
In reality, Hitler was “raised Catholic” but rejected the vast majority of the teachings of the faith as he got older. Huh, just like many atheists! Fancy that.
By the way, here’s an FYI for those who blame AIDS on the Catholic Church – if everyone in the world followed Catholic teaching on chastity, AIDS would not exist. So if you want to put an end to AIDS, just convince everyone in the world to convert to Catholicism, and get all of the liberal Catholics to return to orthodoxy.
Sandi,
You must have a very short attention span. The medieval mentality still exists. So far over this incident alone:
1. A college student getting death threats and possibility of expuslion from school.
2. A professor getting death threats and may get fired from his job. 3. And one of your own catholics got his wife fired from 1800flowers.com
It’s over the same things as it was back in the middle ages. You may have not done anything wrong, but your fellow catholics have been doing it in the name of your faith.
Its obvious that it’s not burning heretics at the stake or having people drawn and quartered for blasphemy, but those were times when catholicism at it’s peak in power over governments and people. Do you want that back today?
Bill Donahue’s job description parallels to a moder day grand inquisitor. If you don’t believe me, then you haven’t even entertained the idea in your head.
W00T 3 CHEERS FOR P.Z!