I’m still busy at this conference, so I have to be quick — and here it is looking like this will be my all-time high traffic day, all thanks the hypocrisy and incompetence of the silly goofballs at Expelled. Anyway, Greg is collecting links, and here’s another eyewitness account.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
We’ve all seen this (even shows up in the random quotes), but I still can’t think of a better response:
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
We bow to you, PZ.
THE ODDS ARE PRETTY GOOD THIS IS AN ENTIRE PILE OF CRAP.
Since Dawkins was in Austin TX teh evening prior and couldn’t possibly have left Austin until the next morning.
Perhaps he flew in a private jet to Minnesota but I doubt it.
People paid , cash chcek, now they bitch about their interview.
So Myers and Dawkins are super jerks, idiots, or just dumb…take your choice.
OH MY GOD! THERE IS NO WAY TO TRAVEL QUICKLY ACROSS THE COUNTRY! WE’VE ALL BEEN HAD!
Seriously, Keith. It’s impossible to get to Austin to Minneapolis in less than 24 hours? Do you always travel by pack mule?
I wish I had thought to email Science Friday. I bet Ira Flatow would get a big kick out of mentioning it today.
Keith, you have lost touch with reality. Even the people involved with Expelled say that PZ Myers and Richard Dawkins were there. The only PILE OF CRAP is to be found in your skull.
And I guess the “PT mafia” also came up with phony photographs of Dawkins at the event? Because you know, someone posted a pic of him there.
Keith, let me guess, you think the moon landings in the 60s were faked too, right?
Keith, you are a moron. There is even a picture posted showing them all after the movie last night.
http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-from-expelled.html
Many of you have been paying attention to creationist idiocy for far longer than I have, so I just have to ask: Does the point ever come when the mind-boggling stupidity of people Keith Eaton (#3) no longer leaves you stunned?
Since Dawkins was in Austin TX teh evening prior and couldn’t possibly have left Austin until the next morning.
You are joking right?
e.g. American Airlines flt 1743 depart Austin Tx 9:00am
arrive Minneapolis, MN 3:10pm (and that’s even with a change in Dallas)
get up earlier and catch the 6:00 am flight arrives at 9:55am, direct flight
Keith probably thinks that missiles hidden by holographic projections of planes took out the WTC, too.
This has already appeared in the threads below, but I thought I’d point out that Expelled has Overstreet’s reporting about Dawkins and Myers, here.
And of course Keith shows what an idiot he again. Dawkins was in the area for the Atheists’ convention, and he knows how to get plane flights.
Sometimes I think Keith really must be a parody troll, trying to make ID and the rest of creationism look bad. Apparently he’s not, but he’s still as good as one.
Glen D
My mistake, he was there…uninvited..a real jerk move,
Here’s an eye witness account that demonstrates the low gut wagon methods of Myers and Dawkins by an invited guest there legitimately.
“But enough about the film – the real highlight of the evening occurred after the showing, during the Q&A. Mathis led this discussion, and the second question was asked by a surprise member of the audience: Richard Dawkins, author of “The God Delusion,” and arguably the biggest name in the movie other than Mr. Ben Stein himself. As this screening was by invitation only, Dawkins appearance was quite a surprise to both the audience and Mathis.
Dawkins asked a simple question: Why was one of his colleagues interviewed in the movie denied a chance to come see this movie and protest it and in fact was escorted out by security prior to admittance to the theatre? The irony apparently escaped Mr. Dawkins that he himself was a gatecrasher to the movie and was uninvited; nevertheless, he wanted to know why his colleague was turned away even though he himself was admitted as were his colleague’s family.
I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself. If a producer had been nearby, it’s possible that he would have been admitted, but the theatre’s management didn’t want to take any chances. ”
I can hardly wiat for the 100 screen release date to see your cult revealed in full form for America to see clearly.
So, you’re saying Dawkins wasn’t there? So PZ and the other eyewitnesses are lying? blessman’s blog claiming to have seen Dawkins “crash” the screening is also a lie? Christianity Today is printing falsehoods? Every single one of your fellow IDiots who has been frantically spinning to try to avoid seeming quite as stupid and dishonest as this story makes obvious, those people are all wrong, the whole thing never happened?
How can anyone be this dense without generating his own personal event horizon?
IT IS OBVIOS THAT JORDAN, NIKE, ADIDAS AND PUMA SHOES HAVE BEEN DESIGNED BY AN INTELLIGENT DESIGNER! WHAT USE IS HALF A SOLE? HALF A SHOELACE? YOU PEOPLE ARE BLINDED BY YOUR FAITH IN EVOLUTIONISMICS!
Reagarding the 100 screen opening, a reminder for the new readers we might get today: Most theaters won’t complain if you buy a ticket for a movie, and once you are inside, actually go and watch another one. If you really want to see Expelled, give your money to a worthier movie.
#3: “Since Dawkins was in Austin TX teh evening prior and couldn’t possibly have left Austin until the next morning.”
Good one. PZ made the whole thing up.
Those people in the theater who reported seeing Dawkins were hallucinating.
What do they sprinkle on the popcorn in the Mall of America?
WHAT USE IS HALF A SOLE?
I need soles!
Keith, trying to show he has a grasp of reality shows that there is, indeed, a PILE OF CRAP within his skull. Read up, there are links all over. All one needed to do to gain admission to the showing was reserve admission through Expelled website. There was no sneaking in. There was no skulduggery.
It’s like they’ve taken a page from Scientology of how to handle your detractors – make a big stink and shoot yourself in the foot.
And speaking of Scientology…
I’ll bet John Travolta is thrilled that a movie is coming to the theaters that will make “Battlefield Earth” look goooooood!
Keith, I thought Christianity was against bearing false witness. You might want to reconsider doing it again.
Keith, your precious “eyewitness account” is a known fabrication. It’s a pack of lies. And the author has done some frantic spinning once some blatant falsehoods came to light.
No tickets were required. PZ registered through the website, using his real name, clearly stating that he would be bringing guests. This has all been clearly pointed out. There was no gatecrashing.
The fact that you were shown to be so vastly, astoundingly, laughably wrong so quickly, would give a sane person pause, and encourage careful thought and verification before acting like a bigger fool. It doesn’t seem to have that effect on you.
Keith, there are five reasons no one here takes you seriously:
The first is that you’re an IDiot.
The second is that you’re a huge IDiot.
The third is that you’ve reached the limits of IDiocy.
The fourth is that you’ve universally revolutionized the meaning of being an IDiot.
And the fifth is that even if you weren’t such a colossal, monumental IDiot, you’d still have nothing to say but lies and invective.
Keith, get your facts straight. PZ didn’t *have* to be invited. He preregistered on the Expelled website to see the movie, which was all he had to do (theoretically) to see it. As did Dawkins. Screeners did not *have to be invited*. Nor did they need tickets. So all of these claims of PZ “crashing” or “not having a ticket” are just plain old lyin’ for Jesus(TM).
“Does the point ever come when the mind-boggling stupidity of people Keith Eaton (#3) no longer leaves you stunned?”
Yes. I just laugh now. Bad day, read some creationist bullshitting, and I know that my day is not bad at all….. There are people who have to survive parents like that…..
And by the way, Keith, assuming you haven’t run away with your tail between your legs (yet), answer this, please: What, pray tell, is a “low gut wagon”?
“I can hardly wiat for the 100 screen release date to see your cult revealed in full form for America to see clearly.”
Will they bar PZ from seeing the movie then, too?
They’re wankers, Keith. Surely even you are feeling a little embarrassed for them now.
100 screens only, are you shitting me? This movie is going to make about $10 with a release that wide.
This just in: jet travel, too, is ‘just a theory’.
there is a “contact us” page on the Expelled website if anybody is interested in asking them to explain why PZ was expelled:
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/contactus.php
Hmmmm having a “gut feeling” that it was impossible for Dawkins to be in MN and then extrapolating that feeling into a reason to throw out the whole story. Why does that type of reasoning sound so familiar?
Holy shit, Keith. Are you truly this fucking dense, or do you take special pills or something?
The movie was an open advanced screening. In other words, you witless turd, PZ, Dawkins, et al., all signed up by giving their names to a list which was then checked at the gate.
Really, man. Get some fucking help before your stupidity kills you.
Jason, are you always an ignorant fool? Why is your gut telling you that it was impossible for Dawkins to be in MN? Have you heard of air travel and transportation in general?
There’s even a picture of them all after the movie:
http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-from-expelled.html
#27: “This just in: jet travel, too, is ‘just a theory’.”
Teach the controversy, man!
Um, Adam, I think Jason was pointing out the irony of Keith’s stupidity.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Busy, busy, busy
Converting from atheism to Bokononism?
Keith Eaton @ “I can hardly wiat for the 100 screen release date to see your cult revealed in full form for America to see clearly.”
No it won’t, God is on our side and He won’t let us atheists be mocked like this.
Face facts Keith, why did Dawkins get in? God sent a warrior angel to protect Dawkins, that’s why. God is sick and tired of you creationists making things up and created us atheists to take you all down. You better repent Keith before Jesus sends some warrior angels of His around ruff you up for messing with His chosen unbelieving elect.
Absolutely. In fact, the comments in question are actually pretty rational in comparison to some of the truly idiotic (and IDiotic) effluvia which emanate from these folks. If that shocked you, you had better buckle up and find a helmet before spending any more time around this topic.
I think you’re being too hard on the creationists.
To be fair: most of them are only familiar with one mode of travel, and that’s the good old fashioned, saddle-up-the-Triceratops method. It’s fair to say that no Triceratops could possibly have covered the distance between Austin and Minneapolis in that time. Even if Dawkins were skilled in riding the fastest two-legged dino (a tall order, as most of ’em are carnivorous), he could not have made it in time.
As for SteveM’s post citing air travel schedules: don’t you realize that that’s just a theory? None of us were there to see Dawkins take a flight from Austin. Are you so ready to take it on blind faith? Also, don’t you realize that air travel is just another implementation of the kind of corrupt materialist philosophy that says things have actual material, physical causes? Don’t you realize that that kind of thinking led to the Holocaust? If the Germans hadn’t realized that actual, material physical forces acting on human bodies could kill people, there would have been no Auschwitz.
Barry
I wonder if any theaters that are going to show Expelled could be persuaded to show PZ being expelled from seeing the movie he was in at the end of their showing of Expelled.
It might be worth converting the pictures into a form that theaters could show, and asking them to show it.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Uh, Adam,
you misread Jason’s comment. He was pointing out how these ideots disregard info. aka. baby with the bathwater argument.
Everyone else
Keith is a child. Keep on giving him attention by calling him names. It’s just what he wants – he thrives on it.
One of the fundie Reality Distortion Field descriptions of the evening includes this observation in a paragraph about how a “rough cut” was ostensibly being shown:
Mathis also mentioned that several music cues might change before the final cut, which is understandable since several high profile songs and artists are used in the film.
I’m curious now about whether these “high profile” artists know their work is being associated with the movie. Have any attendees compiled a list? ASCAP and BMI would most definitely not care that showings have been free; the artists they represent deserve to be paid for their work if it’s being used without their knowledge.
(It’s the review quoted in the topmost post at lookingcloser.wordpress.com on 3/20.)
An insult to children everywhere.
Keith, let me ask you this: is your skull, like the $1.99 chocolate bunnies at K-Mart, completely fucking empty, or does it come with some kind of toy, like a Kinder Surprise?
Do us all a favour: grab a screwdriver and find out, ‘kay?
ramiro quai “IT IS OBVIOS THAT JORDAN, NIKE, ADIDAS AND PUMA SHOES HAVE BEEN DESIGNED BY AN INTELLIGENT DESIGNER! WHAT USE IS HALF A SOLE? HALF A SHOELACE? YOU PEOPLE ARE BLINDED BY YOUR FAITH IN EVOLUTIONISMICS!”
Ramiro, evolution by natural selectiopn doesn’t work the way that you imagine. It doesn’t involve half an eye at any stage. What happens is that an organism evolves a few light-sensitive cells. Over millions of generations, the patch of light-sensitive cells become more complex, eventually becoming the many different eye types that exist now.
I hope that this helps you. I would also advise you to read up on evolution, if you are interested in this subject. Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species…” is worth reading, to give an historical perspective. I’m sure that anyone who reads this book will recognize Darwin’s thoroughness & intellectual honesty.
Evidence-based reasoning is involved in understanding evolution by natural selection, not faith. Faith is involved in religion & other superstitious beliefs. It is intellectually dishonest.
Brownian, I have already run my tests on him. There is a PILE OF CRAP in his skull. If you want to think it is a toy, well, I have no idea what you play with.
Richard:
I’m fairly certain (though, admittedly, some of it may be wishful thinking) that ramiro’s post was satirical. The “evolutionismics” gives it away for me… I hope?
Good info to have posted though since there seems to be a fair amount of fundie traffic ’round these parts today. Maybe one of ’em’ll learn a things or two. =)
Richard, that post about Nike shoes was a joke. Oy…
Barry Trask @ #37 “Don’t you realize that that kind of thinking led to the Holocaust?”
I would also like to point out that the Nazis had the first operational jet. I mean is any surprise an atheist like Dawkins used a jet?
Kieth-
last night I overindulged in irony, provided by what happened with PZ, and then followed by your posts in that thread as a chaser.
thanks for the hair ‘o the dog this morning.
cleared my hangover right up.
psst:
you’re really bugfuck nuts. seek treatment.
Keith Eaton has been more than his usual crazy ever since he was marked by being post #666 on the Expelled blog.
Come on Keith- admit it – your’e the ANTISCIENTIST
Ichthyic, is there a cure for PILE OF CRAP?
Ichthyic, is there a cure for PILE OF CRAP?
I personally think there will be, someday. However, AFAICT at this point in time, you simply have to leave the area until you figure the stink has died down a bit, then come back and scrape it off the sidewalk with a shovel or high pressure hose.
As much as one can be tempted to do so, I have to admit that lighting it on fire and stomping on it typically just gets it all over your shoe and makes a mess.
Avekid & Rey Fox, it did occur to me that it might be satirical. But let’s use every opportunity to sock it to the IDiots.
Hey Keith:
NWA 2076 AUS 7:30 MSP 10:19
Let me know if you need further explanation.
Richard could, in other words, have given his talk on the 19th, got up bright and early, flown off non-stop to Minneapolis, had a nice business lunch with fellow atheists plotting the further persecution of Christians, spent the afternoon in enjoyable demonic rituals, dined early on the blood of the innocent, and *still* gone to the movie!
OTOH..
in the movie “Envy”, the character Jack Black plays invents a substance that literally makes piles of crap disappear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envy_(film)
who knows?
maybe we will invent a spray that makes piles of crap disappear?
Well, piles of crap come in all sorts of flavours. Some of the more fibrous, herbivore-type crap works well as fertilizer. The crap of omnivores and carnivores is much less useful for that purpose.
Funny yes but you should not have willingly left. They may be allowed to prevent you from entering the theater but certainly had no right to make you leave the sidewalk.
Arrest you? A policeman had no right to arrest you because you broke no law. A security guard has no power to arrest anyone for anything. He could however hold you untill real police arrived if you indeed broke the law but again you did not.
False arrest, massive publicity, huge embarrassment for professional asshole organisation etc.
You should have stood your ground.
Still very funny
How’s this for irony? Have you seen the movie’s web site?
http://expelledthemovie.com/blog/
bolding mine.
Wow, these people are bent so out of shape their tongues are flapping out of their assholes.
The St. Paul Pioneer Press, a fairly substantial newspaper, reports on the Myers/Dawkins matter:
Pretty good stuff, if you ask me.
I don’t know if I really like “Expelled” getting this publicity just now, however. But at least it’s bad publicity, and even if it helps the movie sell, it’ll look like the intellectual debacle that it actually is.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Just received the following email…..
“We regret to inform you that the screening in Santa Clara has been CANCELED due to technical issues. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause you. We will not be able to reschedule prior to the film’s release in theaters April 18.
Thanks for your interest in the film and we encourage you to check it out in theaters. If you have any further questions or concerns, please email jessica@motivemarketing.biz or visit the official film website at http://www.expelledthemovie.com.
Sincererly,
The Expelled Team”
@smittypap (#58)
Oy! Sounds like they’re afraid there are *atheist scientists* in Santa Clara who might also “sneak in” and ruin the surprise.
Alas and alack for these morons — their movie is such a steaming pile of crap that even their manufactured Christianist PR won’t save it.
And really, folks, the average Christianist is so friggin’ stupid that a movie about unIntelligent Design is too TECHNICAL for him. They’ll be intimidated and save their money for the latest Die Hard installment or other such dreck.
@#58. Well ya know, after letting Dawkins get in and hammer Capt. Stupid during the Q & A, they had to cancel because the word was out on what a pile of shit the “movie” really is.
They’ll be intimidated and save their money for the latest Die Hard installment or other such dreck.
10000 BC
That is absolutely true. Ever since fundies disproved the Theory of Internal Combustion by ranting and raving, beating up engineers, and not taking their medications, no motorized transportation has worked.
If they disprove the Theory of Aerobic Respiration we are all doomed.
Glen: Nice article. “Representatives of Motive Marketing, a specialist in marketing such faith-based films as “The Passion of the Christ” and “The Chronicles of Narnia,” did not return phone calls about Myer’s claims and about his barring from the film.”
Uh-huh.
Wow, Overheatin’ Keaton! You’re in way over your head, and sinking fast. I suggest you sell your computer and use the money for psychotherapy and a pharmacology consultation.
Sort of but not really. The really extreme ones occasionally threaten to start killing people. Most of them probably aren’t too serious. Some of them probably will shoot up a mall some day.
You are what you post.
Interesting.
Last night, Kristine wrote a very simple “Dawkins stands up and asks MARK MATHIS why PZ was expelled.”
Here is a Creationist’s eyewitness account of Richard Dawkins’ question to Mathis:
Dawkins asked a simple question: Why was one of his colleagues interviewed in the movie denied a chance to come see this movie and protest it and in fact was escorted out by security prior to admittance to the theatre?
Here is the eyewitness description of the same question, from a friend of Dawkins:
“Why, when he was featured in your film, when the entire theme of your film was free speech and oppression, did you EXPELL my friend and colleague Dr. PZ Myers from the viewing tonight?”
Now, neither eyewitness had a tape recorder, and it’s likely that neither one is word-for-word accurate. They each mention details confirmed elsewhere that the other does not. From other accounts, there seems to have been several questions in a give-and-take discussion between the two participants, and they may have been combined by each person reporting the encounter. Generally speaking, our memories are not very reliable.
But they can be revealing in what we remember — or think we do. Look at the very strange phrase in the first quote, that PZ Myers was “denied a chance to come see this movie and protest it…”
And protest it? Huh? This creationist goober thinks that Richard Dawkins announced — to an entire room filled with creation-friendly folks — that PZ Myer’s purpose in going to see the movie was — not to sit quietly and watch the movie from the audience — but was as a PROTEST? You passively protest by staying away, so that word only makes sense interpreted as an active protest — “to make a protest.” To create a scene, to intrude, to bother people.
Why? Is that what he would have done, if it was him? Perhaps I’m reading too much into his phrase, here, but it just rings phony. I can’t see this expression coming from Dawkins — but seems to fit with the general paranoia from the creationist side.
The second quote sounds like something Dawkins could very well have said. It’s more elaborate, which is a bit suspicious. It may have added rationale from discussions later — memory often confabulates like that. But it doesn’t sound false.
I think the creationist quote which includes the idea that PZ came there to “protest” may explain the mindset behind ejecting a biology professor from the movie. From the beginning, when I first heard about this, I wondered what the heck was going through their heads. Security guards? What were they afraid of?
To quell the protest, of course. Disruptions. Mayhem and pandemonium. PZ surely would bring squid ink and throw it at the projector.
Dumb.
Stuart Blessman has responded at the “Looking closer” blog (http://tinyurl.com/yugv7q).
Not much meat in the comments, apart from a mention that there should be a link to this blog on the Expelled film site. The only thing is that I fail to find it there…
PZ I can safely say that you have greatly amused us all. Congratulations on hanging around long enough for these guys to show their incompetence (in this case about 20 mins)
man, oh man. These self deceptive, irrational, unethical, moralistic bastards are getting me down. I’m surrounded here by those who seem rational until you begin to question the idea of an afterlife – and those who are batshit crazy over the 6 day creation concept and Jeebus as “The Way”(tm). They’re the majority, the largest spectrum of humanity as testament to man’s ability to suspend disbelief and reason. With these people, reason can be abandoned without notice to support their supernatural delusions.
It may be my flu talking, but I think if the universe had consciousness( I know, it doesn’t), then it will be thrilled when the last of Homo sapiens has drawn its final breath. To quote Roger Waters: “Give any one species too much rope and they’ll fuck it up.”
man, oh man, I’m tired.
This just in: jet travel, too, is ‘just a theory’.
Technically, aerodynamics is only a theory resting on the more nebulous theory of air. Me and keiff have never seen a picture of air or a aerodynamic so stop forcing your world views on us. Stop worshiping at the murderous alter of Big Science. Oh yeah, John 3:16.
The problem with idiots like Keith:
“There’s only so much stupidity you can compensate for; there comes a point where you compensate for so much stupidity that it starts to cause problems for the people who actually think in a normal way.”
Friend of a friend
10 bucks for that piece of shit? Kristine was right about the bj.
Wait a minute, I realized why they had to expell PZ! Their website says he has not seen it yet. So their strict adherence to the truth meant they had to prevent him so that their website could remain honest.
This might be a logical reason why PZ was not allowed to see the private screening:
Cheering loudly at the screen is certainly disruptive.
Dawkins is a more staid individual, which is probably why he was allowed to attend.
Furthermore, the fact that Glen Davidson was able to deduce the URLs for registration forms and disseminate this information among evolution activist sites doesn’t mean this wasn’t a private screening.
Keith, let me ask you this: is your skull, like the $1.99 chocolate bunnies at K-Mart, completely fucking empty, or does it come with some kind of toy, like a Kinder Surprise?
Me n Keiff resent your meanness. The inside of his head is as solid as a meatloaf. He is just that brilliant.
N.Y. Times!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/science/21expelledw.html?ref=science
Woooo!
N.Y. Times:
March 21, 2008
No Admission for Evolutionary Biologist at Creationist Film
By CORNELIA DEAN
Two evolutionary biologists — P. Z. Myers of the University of Minnesota, Morris, and Richard Dawkins of Oxford — tried to go to the movies at the Mall of America in Minneapolis Thursday evening. Dr. Dawkins got in. Dr. Myers did not.
On those facts, everybody agrees. After that, things break down.
The movie the two scientists wanted to see was “Expelled,” whose online trailer asserts that people in academia who see evidence of supernatural intelligence in biological processes — an idea called “intelligent design” — have unfairly lost their jobs, been denied tenure or suffered other penalties as part of a scientific conspiracy to keep God out of the nation’s laboratories and classrooms.
Dr. Myers asserts that he was unfairly barred from the film, in which both he and Dr. Dawkins appear, and that Dr. Dawkins would have been, too, if people running the screening had realized who he was — a world leader in the field of evolutionary biology.
But Walt Ruloff, a partner in Premise Media, the film’s producer, said the screening was one of a series the producers have organized for the film, which opens April 18, in hopes of building favorable word-of-mouth among people likely to be sympathetic to its message. People like Dr. Myers and Dr. Dawkins would not have been invited, he said.
Mark Mathis, a producer of the film who attended the screening, said that “of course” he had recognized Dr. Dawkins, but allowed him to attend because “he has handled himself fairly honorably, he is a guest in our country and I had to presume he had flown a long way to see the film.”
Actually, Dr. Myers and Dr. Dawkins said in interviews that they had long planned to be in Minneapolis this week to attend a convention of atheists. Dr. Dawkins, an vocal critic of religion, is on the convention program.
And both had earlier complained that they originally agreed to appear in the movie — then called “Crossroads” — because producers told them it would be an examination of religion and science, not a defense of intelligent design, an ideological cousin of creationism. People who have seen the movie say it also suggests that there is a link between the theory of evolution and ideas like Nazism, something Dr. Dawkins called “a major outrage.”
In an interview, Dr. Myers said he registered himself and “guests” on a Web site for the film’s screening. A security guard pulled him out of the line but admitted his wife, daughter and guests — including Dr. Dawkins, who, Dr. Myers said, no one seemed to recognize. Dr. Dawkins, who like everyone was asked to present identification, said he offered his British passport, which lists him as Clinton Richard Dawkins.
Mr. Mathis said in an interview that he had confronted Dr. Dawkins in the question and answer period after the screening and that Dr. Dawkins withered. “These people who own the academic establishment and who have great friends in the media — they are not accustomed to having a level, open playing field,” Mr. Mathis said. “I watched a man who has been a large figure, an imposing figure, I watched this man shrink in front of my eyes.”
That is not how Dr. Dawkins recalls it. He said Mr. Mathis said “enemies” were attempting to interfere with the film.
“It is impossible to imagine what Mathis is afraid of,” Dr. Dawkins said. “It is impossible to credit such bungling and inept public relations.”
Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, a group that opposes the teaching of creationist ideas in public school classrooms, said in an interview that her organization was setting up a Web site to counter the arguments made in the film.
Dr. Scott said she and other supporters of the teaching of evolution have been having “a horselaugh” over the events as Dr. Myers recounted them, immediately, on his blog, Pharyngula.
She said it was “just tacky” that the producers barred Dr. Myers from the screening, but added, “I don’t think it’s inappropriate for us to have a good laugh at the creationists’ expense.”
Dr. Dawkins said the hoopla has been “a gift” to those who oppose creationism. “We could not ask for anything better,” he said.
Willie Wanker keeps on spinning…
This might be a logical reason..
Then why don’t they say “no cheering” on their booking form? Logic and you are not friends, are they?
You’re really going to go with that, William? I mean, that’s the kind of stretch only a delusional, paranoid twit would make. Which, I suppose, it seems I have answered my own question now, haven’t I?
Carry on citizen.
Looks like the New York Times has it fairly correct. Dan and Zarquon you should have waited to hit that post button, you were just Pwn’d by the New York Times.
I am surprised you didn’t play the “quote mining” card.
William, your skills at self-delusion are truly astounding.
“Mr. Mathis said in an interview that he had confronted Dr. Dawkins in the question and answer period after the screening and that Dr. Dawkins withered.”
vs.
Kristine:
“They didn’t even recognize him when he sat through the film – not until he rose to speak, after being called on – by said producer, MARK MATHIS – at the Q&A. Holy shit, the blood drained from his face then!”
Dawkins the incredible shrinking man? Yeah, right. I’m going with Kristine’s account.
William: I am amazed by your rhetoric. Looks a lot like the one on Jeffrey Overstreets blog, where you have also posted. And where he chose to mainly publish posts that make unfound allegations towards critics of the Expelled move. Such as that the event was for a select few, when we have it from multiple sources that it was an open invitation on a web site. And claims such that the Expelled website is proponent of both sides of the incident, when there is no trace of any comments on it, apart from the comments to older blog posts.
Jeffrey has closed his comment thread, after some quote mining. Which is typical for people that subscribes to an authoritative worldview: that there is a truth and that they have found it, discussion closed. Quite a different mindset from the one of science…
Thanks for citing the article in The St. Paul Pioneer Press, Glen. It certainly seems to be noninflammatory and reasonable reporting. I suspect that the story will get picked up by other news outlets and go viral not only in the web-sense of the term but in terms of general distribution to a much broader audience. Cool. This means that soon, everyone will know that ID relies on playground politics and adolescent innuendo more than they do on their “sharp, two-edged sword, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
I am so gleefully delighted and usefully entertained by this episode! I’m almost embarrassed to consider the cost to ID and the benefit to their nemesis-you, me and these others gathered here. Even more entertaining is anticipating the attempts of the ID faithful to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
Ah, the NYT. In this case they make the mistake of reporting both sides as if they have equal credibility, playing into the hands of the
Creationists Inteligent Design Advocates,er, Teach the Controversy, or something…http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/science/21expelledw.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=expelled&st=nyt&oref=slogin
…Right…they let Dawkins in out of courtesy not out of sheer clulessness but kicked PZ out, er, why? And they “would not have” invited PZ, er, except the fact is that it was a public screening with public on-line sign up and they even sent PZ a confirmation email–i.e. they did invite him. By their thinking any restaurant that takes reservations is “invitation only.”
Nowhere does the NYT piece say that PZ was “disruptive”, or kept out because of that reason. You’re still a wanker, Willie.
the DI has weighed in, at last:
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008/03/richard_dawkins_worlds_most_fa.html
Yup, this goes to show that the creationists really do expect disruptive protests from biology professors. “Cheering at the screen.” Yes. We all know how much filmmakers fear that.
Is there no place safe for Christian Creationists? It’s almost as if the movie Expelled is seen as a sort of religious service, where people go to reinforce their faith and celebrate their sense of community — and non-believing spectators are not “welcome” because they spoil the mood.
Dumb.
Wait, is this the same Mathis that said PZ had been expelled for “crashing” the screening and because he didn’t have a ticket? If he’s lied so blatantly, why should we believe him now when he says he admitted Dawkins deliberately, out of courtesy?
Now CalGeorge cites the NYT!
I recall the words to an old “tradition hymn”, the kind that we used to call “Negro Spirituals” but are advised not to any more: “Ain’t no hidin’ place down here.”
“But Walt Ruloff, a partner in Premise Media, the film’s producer, said the screening was one of a series the producers have organized for the film, which opens April 18, in hopes of building favorable word-of-mouth among people likely to be sympathetic to its message. People like Dr. Myers and Dr. Dawkins would not have been invited, he said.”
Shower of wankers, the lot of ’em.
From Evolution News and Views, “Richard Dawkins, World’s Most Famous Darwinist, Stoops to Gate-crashing Expelled”
“The whole point of Myers is that he is a take-no-prisoners, crusading atheist scientist who has made it his purpose in life to harass people who disagree with him. Dawkins turns out to be his buddy and mutual admirer.”
Can I come and just hang with you two guys? Would I have to stoop? Do I need command voice? Would it be OK if I showed up without a copy of an ancient text held snuggly under my arm? I just want to be Bad Like Y’all!
My belief is that they knew they were letting in Richard Dawkins, and had no doubt he would stand-up and question what they did to Myers. I believe it was a set-up and they had some set attacks against Dawkins ready.
The problem is, Dawkins does not, no matter how many seem to adore him, think quickly on his feet in creationist debates. He simply sucks at debating them. Does he write well? Yes, he certainly does, but debating and writing are far from one and the same.
They did not allow PZ in simply because PZ has shown himself to be able to be well prepared for the slimy aspect of creationist debates, and thinks extremely fast on his feet. I believe they knew PZ could talk circles around them based on a recent interview/debate on a certain Christian talk show, and they knew they could not respond to him well-enough to keep the crowd on their side. Again, in the recent debates, PZ has shown the ability to win over the other side which frightened the producers in my opinion.
In the end, I believe PZ and Dawkins are still thinking this is a fair debate waiting to happen, and it is not, and has never been so. Dawkins is polite and easy to deal with when you are a complete snake, but the fact is, PZ is a mongoose.
Rikki Tikki Tavi lives…
As painful as it is, I keep reading Keith’s comment:
I can hardly wiat for the 100 screen release date to see your cult revealed in full form for America to see clearly.
I can’t help but wonder what’ll happen when Mathis refuses to let America in?
Seems like the only people they want to see the movie are the dyed-in-the-wool believers like William Wallace here.
Just a hint to all of you creationists out there: one honest Christian would do more for your cause than all of your imagined links between Nazism and evolution.
Then again, if you’re comfortable deluding yourself about an imaginary friend, I suppose it’s too much to expect you to be honest with anybody else.
… in hopes of building favorable word-of-mouth among people likely to be sympathetic to its message.
Imagine a Michael Moore documentary where some of the people he targeted in interviews are turned away from advanced screenings, and the excuse is that this is because they are not “sympathetic to the message” of the film. Oh, really?
That is not what a documentary does. It is what a propaganda-piece does. Many of the creationist conservatives who seem to have no problem with saying Dawkins “crashed” the showing and PZ Myer was rightfully turned away — because he won’t generate a positive “buzz” for the film — would be all over a similar tactic from Michael Moore or Al Franken or some other liberal. As well they should be. Documentaries on controversial topics should expect controversy, and not seek only ‘receptive’ audiences like a support group for Sensitive Weenies.
Winner! Brownian, OM, this is such a fine example of your pithy turn of phrase. Thanks for the late breaking chuckle at the end of a fairly mirthful day.
Such a shame DI does not have a place for comments after their columns. Perhaps someone could point out to them THAT A TICKET WAS NOT NEEDED. As for the second paragraph I placed here, all I can ask is this; for what reason would Dawkins be nervous. I have heard Dawkins say the same thing in more then one interview. If Dawkins was so nervous about this, why have he repeated this. All he says is panspermia is possible, not probable. And DI intends to damn Dawkins because he gives slightly more weight to a probable material explanation over a supernatural explanation.
“She said they would have a biologist talking about evolution and they would intercut that with lots of shots of the Nazi Holocaust, so it’s a blatant appeal to emotions.
Can’t we just invoke Godwin’s law on this movie and be done with it???
Holy shit, PZ – you magnificent bastard!
Now you’ve done it – your’e in the New York Times, you rascal
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/science/21expelledw.html?ref=science
“From Evolution News and Views, “Richard Dawkins, World’s Most Famous Darwinist, Stoops to Gate-crashing Expelled””
They seem to be talking, but I can’t hear them over the sound of their wanking.
Hilarious excerpt from the NY Times article:
Mathis said in an interview that he had confronted Dr. Dawkins in the question and answer period after the screening and that Dr. Dawkins withered. “These people who own the academic establishment and who have great friends in the media — they are not accustomed to having a level, open playing field,” Mr. Mathis said. “I watched a man who has been a large figure, an imposing figure, I watched this man shrink in front of my eyes.”
I find it humorous that this sentence is found in the Expelled website’s terms of use:
“Premise Media Corporation and Motive Entertainment DO NOT REPRESENT OR WARRANT THAT THE INFORMATION ACCESSIBLE VIA THIS SITE IS ACCURATE, COMPLETE OR CURRENT.”
You got that right!
J. D.
Sorry about the Santa Clara event evaporating guys – it wasn’t our fault! Even though our Atheist / Skeptic co-founding member signed up with our group listed as “organization”. I’m sure that wouldn’t scare them into closing down – would it?
Oh yes, we all know that filmmakers live in fear that an audience might be moved to cheer or applaud their work.
Deduce? I suppose that for the sort of intellect that is typical of ID/creationists, reading the URL off of the address field in one’s browser constitutes a feat of deduction.
Of course, a screening that anybody can sign up for at a web site is hardly private by any definition of the term. But that wily Dr. Myers, he signed up with his real name. I guess that to somebody who thinks it is a feat of deduction to read the URL of a web site, this constitutes some kind of nefarious misdirection.
Oh trrll, your response was great, but perhaps a tad harsh:
They can hardly be blamed for their stupidity–they were designed that way.
The world has become a very simple place in the last decade or so, since the opposition has found that, while it still has social capital (mostly a rich deposit of traditional stupidity, but also slight veins of conscience) to exploit, it no longer takes seriously ANY of the tenets it promotes.
Religious belief has become an admission of one’s willingness to support dishonesty, of moral and intellectual cowardice. Now when I am told of someone’s religious affiliation, it becomes something very much like some huge wart disfiguring their face – if they are otherwise kind, funny or earnest people I can quickly learn to overlook it, unless they start talking about it or scatching it too much.
I love how getting on the admission list for the screening by following proper channels is considered “sneaking in” or “gatecrashing”.
I wonder if the “Expelled” people are like those underage kids who posted information about their keg party on Facebook – they don’t seem to realize that web sites are accessible by everybody.
I hope you don’t mind being called the “imp” to Dawkin’s “satan.” I hope you enjoyed the Fark link up. I read, somewhere, that this is your biggest day ever.
Well, that link was bizzare. It was here: Satan.
Why, it’s just another example of those evil atheists: they’re so dishonest, they’ll even go so far as to register using their own names! Of all the sneaky, low-down, dirty….
They say the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was in convincing the world he didn’t exist. Apparently he’d be more evil if he went around with a nametag and produced his passport for anyone who asked.
When you’re a professional victim, anything anyone does that you can use to assert your victimhood is a crime/abuse/unethical. However, when you spread lies and attack people, they deserved it and you’re still the victim because that’s just how it works.
Hey, I sat a couple tables away from you (by random chance, wait, isn’t random chance impossible?) and wanted to go up and introduce myself. I figured I’d wait until you were up and about. After Dawkins’ talk I was on my way out I was maybe 6 feet from you, but my stomach was growling and I needed to get in line and then eat badly. Hopefully I will see you tomorrow. I must meet the mighty, now Saint PZ this weekend.
Four write-ups through Google news right now…including the Discovery Institute claiming that Dawkins stooped to gate-crashing. Heh.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=p.z.+myers+expelled&btnG=Search
Sastra@66:
while you’re analyzing the various presentations, know that Kristine spent weeks hanging with Dawkins on a trip to the Galapagos a year or so back.
she knows the man pretty well, and I’ve personally never seen her lie about anything, or add much embellishment (beyond the occasional shimmy)
Ichythyic # 114:
Yes, I remember — and Dawkins even told her she’s “not a very nice person” — and what better recommend? (but has she danced with him?) ;)
ndt #107:
Remember, these are the same people who think that formulating testable hypotheses, doing experiments, publishing in peer review, and persuading people with expertise in the field is a sly form of discrimination and elitism. No, go straight for the textbooks and movies, and “let the people decide.” That’s not sneaking in anything through the back door.
These are professional gatecrashers.
I’m coming into this one late, but WOW! Keith is Exhibit A for what lengths the Creatins/IDiots will go to come up with excuses. Dawkins couldn’t POSSIBLY have been there? HA!
Keith you are an absolute buffoon. Not only are TX and MN in the same time zone, but even in extreme circumstances it’s quite possible to make the drive from Austin to Minne in a day. Add to that the fact that it’s maybe a 3-hour flight tops, and Dawkins could’ve have realistically made it even if his plane left Austin at 3PM. Further, There’s a train right from the airport to the MOA. It’s called the 21st century, powered by science. IDiot.
Keith Eaton. Mark Mathis. Brothers in abject, self-assured stupidity.
These are professional gatecrashers.
that’s a very good way to phrase it.
I hope that catches on.
Faith eliminates reason and thus the rules of reason which guide the mind toward knowledge and away from absurdities like the Sky Wizard and creationism. Those having creationist rubbish glued into their minds deserve what they’ve achieved–a head full of trash.
The religious attack on a great achievememt of reason such as evolution is obscene and deserves the most profound condemnation.
Faith is a vice! Reason is a virtue!
Thank you PZ and family as well as Richard and his staff.
At last! We can explain PYGMIES + DWARFS!!!!
This sounds like an endorsement:
Do they need PZ’s permission to use his words in an endorsement?
Mark Mathis’ view of science (not sure if anyone has transcribed this):
“What we have today in many areas of science … is an elitist establishment that is absolutely convinced of their own intelligence and that they’re right, that they take data that is incomplete and insufficient, they make a theory, they say this is what we know to be truth, that’s it, the rest of you shut up and go away. And that’s what’s happened here with Darwinian theory. We’ve got 90% of the American population that believes, based on their own personal observation, that there is certainly design in nature at some level, maybe even a very intense level, and that consequently for most people, that there is a God. We’ve got the exact opposite in academia, where we’ve got atheistic elitists who are supporting a theory that has very significant challenges to it, who are dictating to the rest of us, saying, no, there’s not even a possibility that there is design in nature, that it has to be randomness and chance, and that anybody who would question this sacred cow theory is either naive, stupid, evil, or a complete idiot.”
Pretty bad! So he decided to make a movie based on this kind of sloppy thinking?
He could have saved himself a lot of trouble by going to any decent college or university and TALKING to a few science professors.
But no, he nursed his idiotic preconceptions, got angrier and angrier, then went off and made a half-baked movie full of really, really dumb suppositions about how science works and scientists think.
I would hate to be this guy’s kid.
And, as the Bad Astronomer points out, in his recent post Creationism, evolution, and Nazis. Yes, Nazis, based on the reports from people who have seen the mockumentry (emphasis in original):
Mathis has not only twisted science, scientists, logic, assorted religious beliefs, and history, but reality.
More of Mark Mathis interview (continued from #121):
“There was a time when the church had a very strict, dogmatic control of science and, you know, it made sense because the church was really one of the great purveyors of science, the institution that really advanced science. But, you know, they had too much control, it was too dogmatic, you didn’t have the kind of free thought and expression and level of inquiry that science definitely needs, and so there was rightfully so a backlash against this extreme control of the church over science. Well, now the pendulum has swung all the way to the other side, to the side that now we have these elitists, now we have a new church that is in control of science, and that’s the church of atheism and secularism. And they are excluding all ideas that run counter to their atheistic beliefs. And it’s in biology, it’s in climatology, it’s in politics, if you are on a university campus today and you express any viewpoint that is contrary to an extraordinarily liberal point of view, you are a heretic! And it’s a joke now, on American university campuses, freedom of thought is certainly not there, freedom of speech is not there.”
This guy has a huge chip on his shoulders.
“the church was really one of the great purveyors of science”
Galileo? Copernicus? I guess Mathis hasn’t opened a textbook in awhile.
I watched the Expelled trailer. It’s hilarious and disturbing at the same time.
(shameless ad for my review of the trailer on my blog now)
More Mark Mathis:
“There are hundreds of extraordinarily competent scientists who are in the area of climatology, who are looking at the earth’s history and what we can know about it, which is a pretty small amount, you know, we’re looking at various factors about our climate, the natural variation, we’re looking at the impact of solar variation on the earth’s climate, quite interestingly, we’re seeing that the other planets in our solar system are warming at the same rate as we are. This is very interesting, compelling, important scientific inquiry, but these scientists are being called deniers and heretics, and they’re in the pocket of some, you know, energy producer. It’s just a joke! They don’t want to discuss the science.”
I see a topic for his next movie.
This guy has a huge chip on his shoulders.
Lemme guess. Someone got an F with the comment “You didn’t answer the question” on a final paper. But it was because the professor just didn’t understand how an essay about American being the greatest country ever did answer the question about the effects of the Fugitive Slave Act.
“We’ve got 90% of the American population that believes, based on their own personal observation, that there is certainly fairies in their car engines at some level, maybe even a very intense level, and that consequently for most people, that there are engine fairies. We’ve got the exact opposite in the auto body shop, where we’ve got mechanic elitists who are supporting a theory that has very significant challenges to it, who are dictating to the rest of us, saying, no, there’s not even a possibility that there fairies that drive pistons, that it has to be internal combustion, and that anybody who would question this sacred cow theory is either naive, stupid, evil, or a complete idiot.””
Wanker.
lawyer @ #56,
You’re not really a lawyer, are you?
It’s okay to admit that. Fewer people will hate you if YANAL.
And it would explain why you are spouting nonsense.
And you really believe PZ would have done that? You really believe PZ didn’t want to hear people what he said? You really believe he could have sustained cheering for 30 seconds? Wouldn’t that get boring?
I offer two hypotheses: 1) you’re stupid enough to really believe that; 2) you’re scared shitless to the point that you didn’t think about this at all.
Please offer some evidence so we can start testing these hypotheses.
Are there any other Spirituals? If not, why not just call them “Spirituals”?
LOL!
ROTFL!
(Excuse my limited and therefore repetitive vocabulary.)
Translation: Mathis is too lazy to google for the claim that global warming is observed all over the whole solar system, and therefore simply doesn’t know what nonsense it is.
This is why one denialism seldom comes alone.
And you really believe PZ would have done that? You really believe PZ didn’t want to hear people what he said? You really believe he could have sustained cheering for 30 seconds? Wouldn’t that get boring?
I offer two hypotheses: 1) you’re stupid enough to really believe that; 2) you’re scared shitless to the point that you didn’t think about this at all.
Please offer some evidence so we can start testing these hypotheses.
Are there any other Spirituals? If not, why not just call them “Spirituals”?
LOL!
ROTFL!
(Excuse my limited and therefore repetitive vocabulary.)
Translation: Mathis is too lazy to google for the claim that global warming is observed all over the whole solar system, and therefore simply doesn’t know what nonsense it is.
This is why one denialism seldom comes alone.
Bob L #47,
You owe me a new keyboard and monitor.
trrll #104,
I think I understand now. To a creationist, reading the bible is deductive reasoning.
Brownian #42,
From an ancient trip to Munich, I have a (now coffee drenched) Kinder toy airplane on top of my monitor.