One of the hot social media items this morning is a woman who made a big fuss about a delayed flight because Thanksgiving and a guy who retaliated. The point of the item seems to be that the guy did a great job of schooling the woman. I beg to differ.
Elan Gale Live-Tweets his Feud with Asshole Woman on Flight
This note war on a plane is hilarious. I have no idea who he is but I want to be his friend.
Hmm, yeah, I don’t.
He tweeted about her. Fine. The tweets are funny, and she’s anonymous. But then he sent her a note, and she replied to say his note was not cool, and he sent another.
No. That has tipped way over into bullying, and sexist bullying at that. Not cool. And that’s before you even see what was posted to the Storify later:
“Diane is my cousin. I want to thank you for not pressing charges against her for slapping you. She would have been arrested for that, and spending a few days in jail would have been a particularly cruel irony under the circumstances. I am a bit surprised you said you could hear her breathing, because Diane has stage IV small cell lung cancer. This would have been her last Thanksgiving with us. I say “would have” because she did miss her connecting flight. She arrived this morning, having spent the night in a hotel in Phoenix. Admittedly, Diane hasn’t been handling her imminent death very well, but she really was looking forward to being with us and the rest of her family- all of whom were flying in for one last Thanksgiving with her. In her defense, she was very contrite and upset about her behavior on the plane. Certainly everybody wanted to get where they were going, but perhaps she can be forgiven for thinking that her need was more pressing than most. Thanksgiving has always been Diane’s favorite holiday, and her comment about the stuffing is true- she was the “keeper of the family recipe” and all of her nieces were planning to be instructed (one more time) in the mysterious ways of Auntie Diane’s stuffing. Since she missed her connecting flight, this did not occur. We are going to try to get as many of the family together as we can tomorrow, but that is up in the air. The plans were all for yesterday. I wish you had known her before she got cancer. You would have loved her. She was bright, funny, and compassionate, and had a self-deprecating sense of humor. She taught elementary music. She loved kids. She loved to laugh. She was everybody’s favorite aunt. Actually, she still is”
Not amusing.
This is just heart breaking 🙁
Yes, that story really struck me the wrong way too. I thought her behavior sounded annoying, but his was simply cruel.
I feel horrible for having laughed at this story originally (though I stopped at “eat my dick”). Dear god, this is awful. Poor Diane.
Not that anyone could be expected to know her situation—that’s not reasonable. All anyone knew was that yet another passenger was acting entitled and making an already stressful situation worse.
But still.
Elan made the following comment on Tumblr:
He certainly wasn’t nice to Dianne. The “eat my dick” comment was not only over the top, it said “you were rude to other people so I’ll bully you with sexism.”
I’ve seen my share of annoying arrogant entitled passengers, and I admit I did find the story funny at first, but got a jolt at the “eat my dick” comment, which I think is over the top, both for its gratuitous sexism and disproportionate level of nastiness.
No need to feel horrible. I thought the first tweets were funny too – I still think they’re funny. But then he got over-excited, like a toddler, and went into bullying instead. Bullying isn’t funny.
OT – hi Muhammad, and welcome!
The lesson ladies: Even when women are dying, they need to watch their manners. Else a man will come along to put her in her place and shut her up by telling her where she should put his cock. Then everyone will have a good laugh over the stupid, rude woman and praise the man for keeping her quiet.
Don’t forget it, even for a second. That’s the civilization we inhabit.
Basic failure of American pedagogy: you don’t teach people to be polite by being rude to them. I only say this because his stated excuse was that he was trying to teach her to be polite.
Ome blogger is asking why we believe what he is saying: Why isn’t anyone questioning the “Diane” story?. Also, he has apparently made up stuff to “livetweet” in the past
@SallyStrange:
Yes, I was with him when he was apparently generously and politely treating Diane to a glass of wine by way of helping her to relax a bit. But in retrospect it looks like perhaps his actual intent was to be passive-aggressive, and when that didn’t work to his satisfaction, he escalated the aggression part. (Why isn’t it considered sexual harassment for a man to pass a note to a woman that says “eat my dick”? Or perhaps it is, but there is no prohibition on such behaviour passenger to passenger?)
Truth.
And he was way more than rude.
With a note which ended “Hopefully if you drink it, you won’t be able to use your mouth to talk”?
Yeah, not generous and polite.
Moral of the story: one of the people who is responsible for such schlock as “The Bachelor” and “The Bachelorette” is exactly as much of a sociopathic shitbiscuit as I would have suspected.
Also, it’s a good point theobromine makes: Why is it that nobody is immediately questioning her version of events? Leaving aside the fact that he has a history of faking stuff like this, on what basis do we just accept that he’s telling the truth about all of it? It’s amazing: here we have a story in which a man self-reports sexually harassing a woman, and nobody remarks on the sexual harassment and never ever questions his story, but when a woman reports being sexually harassed, it’s like WHOA NELLY SHE MIGHT BE LYING YOU NEVER KNOW.
For me he crossed the line with the first note. Maybe he didn’t think she would react but he had to have known his note would have increased the tension and could only have made a bad situation worse. And then he notices she is wearing a medical mask but doesn’t stop to consider the possible complications.
Why do you think it is sexual harassment? Had she come on the plane in a wheel chair, most people would have taken it that she had some medical care needed. (Why was a woman with Stage 4 Lung cancer flying anyway with out oxygen? Pretty sure that is contra-indicated.) So some other passenger hears a women start to complain incessantly about the travel. One individual responds with a note to her. A war of notes begins. That does not make sexual harassment no matter what you might think. His statements might be crude vulgar and disgusting but anything other than a threat, and you have nothing but words.
I am sorry to hear that she has cancer. I held my Mom’s hand as she passed from it. I will pray for her. I also suggest that the ‘cousin’ make better travel arrangements in the future.
A man telling a woman to eat his dick? Yes, that’s sexual harassment. Yes it’s “nothing but words” (well, except for the physically approaching her, and standing over her while he photographs the seat numbers, and taking the two bottles of vodka to her) but words can be sexual harassment. If anyone told you sexual harassment had to be physical to qualify, that was an error.
Notice that I’m not defending her entitled complaining or her rudeness to the FA. I’m saying sexual harassment shouldn’t be her punishment.
You seem insightful and very humane, Dan.
I doubt that Diane’s illness turned her into an entitled asshole.
Elan’s initial tweets were funny, but to engage like he did with an already distraught person who was trapped on a plane with him for hours was much worse behavior than Diane’s.
Final score: Diane minus 10
Elan minus 25
I’m sorry that Diane is suffering with cancer. I also don’t agree with the disgusting direction Elan’s notes eventually took. BUT. There are far too many Dianes in this world, with far too many excuses for their horrid behavior. The bottom line is this: she thought only of HERSELF and not of the people serving her that day that probably would’ve liked to spend this holiday with their loved ones as well. Cancer or not, her behavior was appalling. I guarantee you that every passenger on that plane had reason to want to be home desperately for Thanksgiving, and probably several that we’re suffering as much as she was. Did any of them act obnoxious and treat the flight attendants with disrespect and rudeness? Nope. Our daughter died in my womb at 20 weeks this past March. Instead of getting to birth her and bury her and see her, I had to have an operation to remove her from my body and was never able to touch the daughter I’d carried. We have two sons, and our first daughter will always be lost. Losing our daughter has changed me, and made me much more compassionate and graceful than I was before. Maybe Diane isn’t handling her impending death well, but now, this is the legacy she leaves: one of anger and inconsiderate verbal assaults on flight attendants. Flight attendants that gave up their holiday to work.
Maybe instead of defending only your aunt, you might also ask her to apologize to those she inevitably hurt. That would be one way to change the legacy she’s publicly leaving behind.
@ 20 – Seriously??! On the basis of what? Was her behavior as described so off the charts that it seems unlikely to be the result of TERMINAL LUNG CANCER AND IMMINENT DEATH combined with a serious obstacle to her MUCH DESIRED LAST THANKSGIVING WITH FAMILY?
You seriously don’t think that would be enough to account for a normally likable person to get crabby?
Jeez.
Erm, hi, Tricia? I’m not Diane’s aunt. I don’t know her. I simply quoted what her cousin posted on Storify.
I have changed my mind after think in about the progression of this encounter all morning in response to a comment on FB. The tweeting was funny. I wish it had stopped after the first note and the first glass of wine and never gotten to either the eat my dick comment or the photo of the seat number. My note would probably have been quite a bit nicer as well. Figuring out when to end the joke is a huge part of effective comedy.
On the other hand, I have had paid and unpaid positions that involve a lot of contact with random members of the public and dealt with way too many seriously difficult people. I’m not as sympathetic as I’ve been in the past.
The whole incident reminds me of a great pamphlet I read a while ago about how to intervene with a parent who’s losing it with a misbehaving child in public. Amazingly enough, the most effective thing to do is to distract the parent via gentle compassion about how hard it is to deal with children’s behavior and how embarrassing it is to lose it in public. Adopting a serious call-out shaming stance makes it way worse for the kid, not necessarily right then, but as soon as the parent gets home with them,
Kristjan Wager @10:
Yeah, I’m doubting the whole thing now. The whole thing just reeks of a stunt, up to and including the “revelation” that “Diane” has terminal cancer. That seems to be in line with his M.O. as in the blind date live-tweeting stunt, where it moves into a second act with angry fake texts from his “date” and the friend who set them up.
A quick search of the internet turns up the following:
“Small cell lung cancer (unlike non-small cell lung cancer), is divided into only 2 stages -– limited and extensive. Roughly 60% to 70% of people have extensive disease at the time of diagnosis”
Taking an already hard to validate comment from a “cousin” to at least an innaccurate comment, if you do believe it.
Don’t worry, Tricia, there will soon be one less to bother you with their selfish terminal cancer and grief.
Now, tell us again about how some people are just too entitled and self absorbed?
http://i.imgflip.com/1bim.jpg
Surprise @24:
Good advice, but not likely to be heeded – in my experience, even calm and appropriate tactics with misbehaving children are met with rudeness and unhelpful advice. I still recall an incident when I was calmly (but with much embarassment) removing a tantrumming toddler from the grocery store, and one of a pair of older woman said loudly, “I think some discipline is required there”. Young and insecure, I responded: “Yes, that’s why I’m taking him out of the store.” (Which I was doing so that we could have a chat outside or in the car about behaviour etc.) Later, I figured out that she probably meant that I should have swatted him immediately to make him shut up.
Uh… the fact that he repeatedly emphasized that her punishment for being too loud should be him sticking his cock in her mouth? Hello?
Ophelia @22:
Seriously??! On the basis of what?
On the basis of knowing people with terminal, chronic, or serious illnesses who did not all of a sudden begin abusing service people when they became ill. If they were nice before, they stayed nice. If they were selfish before, they remained so.
Sure, we’re all entitled to get sad, angry, scared, and depressed in such circumstances. You still have a choice how you deal with those emotions.
Yikes, like many here I also thought it funny at first, but the “eat my dick” line was not funny. Didn’t really think about the medical mask comment as it just seemed bizarre. Hearing she has late stage lung cancer then the comments about hearing her breathing through her teeth take on a much more unpleasant slant. Struggling to breathe while stuck on a claustrophobic plane that is delayed. That cancer can kill in days so I understand why she is so inordinately desperate to get home… Could have gone differently if rather than looking for his next stunt he or someone else just spoke to her with kindness.
Fake.
I tried to post this on Huffington Post, but did not have an account. So, I was unable to post my comment. Below is my response to the original article. It looks like my prediction about Diane may have been correct. Whether it is true or not, this entire story and peoples’ responses to it make me sick to my stomach.:
How easy it would have been for another passenger to open up to Diane and to show empathy. Imagine if instead of provoking Diane, Elan had reached out to her. It is easy to show acts of kindness to brave firemen or children. It shows another level of kindness to reach out to a “Diane.” All of us have taken out our anger on others during difficult times. Have you ever lashed out at a loved one or a stranger and later realized your anger was misdirected? Two things stand out to me in this story. Diane is traveling “ALONE” to visit family. Obviously, she lives away from her loved ones. Also, she is wearing a face mask. Either she has an ailment that suppresses her immune system or she has a fear of becoming ill. When I was a child, I remember going to a restaurant with my parents. Our waitress was unusually rude. Rather than reacting with anger, my dad reached out to her. Before we left, the waitress opened up to us and thanked us for our kindness. Her attitude completely changed. It was amazing how one simple act of kindness had such a significant effect on a complete stranger. This experience has stayed with me. I pity Elan. He has love only for himself and cannot empathize with someone such as Diane. I am not saying that Diane acted perfectly. However, had someone reached out to her with kindness, this story would have been different.
Though Elan’s behavior did indeed stop being funny when he started harassing Diane, that’s not the problem most people have with it. The harassment is.
It’s interesting to see how Diane’s poor behavior has escalated to something beyond the reality. Tricia here says “you might also ask her to apologize to those she inevitably hurt.”
Hurt? She was annoying to flight attendants. She told them she wanted to get home. That she was upset. That her family is important to her. Annoying and rude, yes. But how did she ‘hurt’ them? By Elan’s account, she didn’t even berate them. She didn’t curse at them or even give them a hard time about getting into her seat or trying to get off the plane.
I fly a lot. And on an obnoxious, entitled passenger level Diane’s about a 4.
Elan’s harassment a 9.
I don’t care whether the woman turns out to be sick or not. I’ve been one of those people who have had it up to here with ridiculous treatment by airlines and had events ruined by cancellations or delays. Sometimes you snap despite yourself… it’s one of those situations where you feel helpless and out of control. In at least one situation an act of kindness by a stranger helped quiet the situation.
For some jerk to feel he has to take it upon himself to “discipline” the upset person through rude behavior is out of line. To make insulting comments is outrageous. To suggest that someone commit oral sex on him, when I was growing up, might have put HIM in jail. Now everyone thinks it is funny?
It’s embarrassing that I live in a country where such people are shaping our culture.
Bullsh*t, #22, I’ve worked with the terminally ill, and when they have bad days, they sometimes cannot help acting out. It’s the same phenomenon that causes normally passive domestic animals to bite, kick, scratch when they are in pain. The brain gets overwhelmed with pain/fear signals, and in humans, worry, dread, regret, etc., and all civilized niceties go out the window. My suggestion for you is to drop into a chronic pain blog, or one where folks with terminal illnesses write discussing how their illnesses effect their moods.
Honestly, I found this none of this man’s “attempts at communication” funny at all.
Being rude to someone who appears irritated already will escalate matters 100% of the time.
He was simply looking for a fight; trying to prove himself “the bigger monkey”, and he chose a dying woman to pick on.
“WooHoo! Look at the Alpha Male put that bitch in her place!” That’s what he expected to get out of this exchange, it had nothing to do with “schooling” his target. It was all about bullying, and showing off for the world.
a@26: lung cancer is staged in two different ways. Clinical staging differentiates only between limited and extensive. TNM staging has four categories. It is sometimes used for small cell lung cancer, just not as frequently as for other forms of lung cancer.
“Stages are described using Roman numerals from 0 to IV (0 to 4). Some stages
are further divided into A and B. As a rule, the lower the number, the less the cancer has
spread. A higher number, such as stage IV (4), means a more advanced cancer.
“This system is used more often for non-small cell lung cancer. It is used less often for
small cell lung cancer, mainly because treatment options don’t vary much between these
detailed stages.”
Sorry, forgot the URL: http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/cid/documents/webcontent/003061-pdf.pdf
This is so true. I’m generally, I like to think, polite and pleasant to people I meet in public. Yet I can clearly remember the time when I wasn’t even seriously ill, just transitioning off a certain type of birth control, which was messing with my hormones. I was in India at the time, walking around Ayodhya, and I totally snapped at this young kid who was just trying to sell some cheap elephant-shaped trinkets and carved boxes to me. My friends actually took me aside and asked if something was wrong, I was so very rude to an innocent child. Good people can do mean things when stressed out.
I’m not sure I believe this “note” that could have originated from who knows where. Seems to be unsubstantiated as far as I can see. Don’t really see the point of character assassinating either person here.
Well, even if NOT true. The writer and/or sharer of it finds it acceptable to tell a 50-year-old woman wearing a medical mask to “eat his d*ck”. Even if fictional, it was still written and shared to make the bully the hero. I think even if you believe it’s fake, it’s fair enough to judge the person who wrote it.
Favourite Aunt Diane sounds like an angry person. For her to have cancer and spend the last few precious moments being angry at somebody ( not Élan, he’s nothing more than a pest, but the flight crew, who obviously could NOT just make the flight be on time) is ridiculous – I’m SO sure they did it on purpose…
Thanksgiving is just a day on a calendar. She can certainly show everyone how to make her special dressing on Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Better yet, maybe the smarty pants planning this should have looked at the history of flight on TG – on time performance is brutal, airports and planes are packed. Maybe book it for a different week, Einstein.
Chris Vereen, the picture of the note was posted by Elan Gale to his twitter timeline. Of course, we have only his word that he actually sent it, but combined with the related photos he posted to his timeline there appears to be little reason to doubt that he did indeed write that note while sitting on a plane full of Thanksgiving travellers.
Since Elan Gale is a TV producer, his Twitter account has one of those big “Verified Account” ticks on it. So what he’s posted on his Twitter account is not the only thing we can use to assess his character – he has a large cyber footprint.
I have no doubt that his live-tweeting of this encounter, fictional or not, was done because he was simply bored bored bored on a delayed flight, and wanted to entertain himself by telling his Twitter followers a story where he was a hero and they would interact with that in ego-stroking ways that would make him feel better about being bored. That the narrative of heroism he chose to construct involves him bullying a woman to teach her a lesson about politeness, and that the bullying includes sexual harassment? That’s plenty of data upon which to make a negative assessment of his character.
To be fair to Chris, Elan has ‘live’ tweeted fake things before. http://melissawashere.wordpress.com/2013/11/29/why-isnt-anyone-questioning-the-diane-story/
I’m not sure how the possibility that Elan Gale fabricated a story of being a total asshole to someone is supposed to redeem his character.
I didn’t say that it did redeem his character. And I commented here that it does not. Just pointing out that it is a possibility that it was faked, since this writer has a history of doing that.
Sadly, I think HE was a terrible tool. This had absolutely NOTHING to do with him. What does he mean she had a “medical mask” on her face? Was she sick? He conveniently glosses over that fact.
I am not remotely surprised he is a “producer” on the Batchelor. Inventing drama for a reaction! He does this professionally. NOTHING shocking here except how many people he sucked into this self-created drama.
If this is anything like Elan’s other tweet battles with women, it goes like this:
Tweet/Blog about someone who has behavior he doesn’t like.
Act passive aggressive because they do something (always from his pov) that is rude.
Admit to lying/writing notes to get back at the person who annoys him.
Post this step by step online, no verification of any of it except random pictures that could fit the tale.
Person finds out he is publicly tweeting, he posts their responses.
Other person escalates, asks them to stop, sometimes does something illegal (authorities are never called).
Time passes between all these steps, sometimes minutes, sometimes days.
.He continues to escalate until the woman is “such a crazy bitch” for asking him to stop.
He “wins”
This guy makes a living taking women’s behavior, blowing it up to make them look unstable, promotes and films the fall out. He literally gets paid to make women look like villains based on following his directions.
Lori and others looking down their nose at terminally ill people and telling them to suck it up and be nice?
You sound like some cold, judgmental assholes. Are terminally ill people not being nice enough to suffer without bothering you? Oh, shame on them for not being above something as small as their eminent demise.
When you are done telling us how awful it is that a woman, regardless of her circumstances, was not perfectly nice, thoughtful of others and quiet, would you mind telling us why it was OK to sexually harass her for fun and then tweet that harassment for the amusement of others?
Lori (#43)
Maybe she’s met too many judgmental assholes like yourself of late.
Seriously people, this is completely fake. How could take a photo of the note and wine he bought to have delivered to her? No comment from the airline, nobody else on the flight Tweeted about her.
He’s an attention-whore reality jerk who regularly fakes this kind of thing.
Grow up.
1. Buy wine.
2. Write note.
3. Take picture of both.
4. Hand both to airline attendant to deliver.
How would you know that? Do you follow all of them on Twitter?
You mean Elan should grow up?
Yes, he absolutely should. So should you.
If Diane has late stage lung cancer, why in the hell would her family make her travel, via flying no less, to see them? Why would they have her traveling alone? Why would she not be traveling with a portable oxygen concentrator? I ask these questions because I lost a sister to metastatic breast cancer and lost my mother to COPD. We always revolved our holidays around them. When my mom flew to my cousin’s funeral in 2008, she had a portable oxygen concentrator and got special treatment from the flight staff and she had her husband and five of her daughters, a granddaughter, and a son-in-law traveling with her because we knew she was going to need extra help. There are no winners in this. Elan took things too far, but Diane’s story doesn’t add up in my book either.
LOL at “IKnowItAll.” Nice handle.
When did she get to tell it?
There is blame on both sides, here. I did like the tweets. But, the note above went too far. There are several lessons to learn from this. One, is that you are not the only person being affected by what is happening. So, don’t be so self-involved. Another, is that what you see isn’t 100% of the facts. There is usually more to a situation than what you think you know. Make sure you have all the facts before involving yourself. If Elan had just gone over to her and pointed out that there are more people on the plane than just her, and that they are going through the same thing as her, she may have then explained to him that that was not actually the case. Then, he and others may have better understood her frustration and may have been able to help her to calm down, and might have actually been able to find a way to help her, instead of making the situation worse. In this case, Elan actually was guilty of doing the same thing that Diane was doing. Without realizing it, he was being selfish, himself, without realizing that there were others being affected by the same situation he was in.
Jinx (#57)
If you actually followed this bit of advice yourself, you couldn’t have written most of your comment.
There really is no ‘Diane’ story. Diane’s story came from someone on the internet. Diane didn’t get a chance to tell her story because no one asked her.
Assuming she actually exists.
How about instead of autism awareness, we do sociopath awareness. There are a few here in disbelief she has cancer. So in other words defend the male bullying her no matter what. Very easy to determine who the sociopaths are. And yes, you guys are the ones who need mental help, not some woman dying of cancer and is upset. It’s sociopaths who lack compassion and try to make everyone else who have feelings out to be the mentally unstable. He should be apologizing to her for humiliating her and trying to make himself out to be some hero when he just looks like a zero.
IF this story is true?
His behaviour? Completely, inarguably wrong, and on so. many. levels.
But that does not, in any way, justify her escalating the situation and assaulting him.
Both parties ought to be feeling ashamed of themselves.
IF this story is fake?
His behaviour was still wrong, and this bloke is an even bigger douche-nozzle than he already comes off as. Who does this kind of thing?
[meta]
Cindy23451 @60:
I think I get your meaning, but your phrasing is (at best) infelicitous, inasmuch as you’re literally claiming that a woman dying of cancer and who is upset needs no mental help.
(It’s very easy to overstep the mark, no?)
If he did this to a guy, he wouldn’t have been slapped, he would have been punched.
John Morales @62:
Actually, I think the bigger problem is that Cindy23451 is using “needs mental help” as a synonym for “lacks morals.”
Though I should say that I agree with the bigger point Cindy was trying to make, that (assuming any of this actually happened) Elan’s misbehavior >>>> Diane’s.
Most of the comments I saw about the man’s behavior were negative. He said a few quippy things about the entitled woman traveler that were funny, and then lost control of his behavior and became rude and nasty.
tell your aunt the country’s with her, especially me.
I can’t seeing Elan confronting a guy with “Eat My Dick” or actually confronting a guy at all.
The only way his story works is to have this woman be a bitch and insufferable.
#54- Why would her family have her travel alone? Wow the privilege is strong on this one. Does everyone have money and time to fly to NYC to accompany a cousin. Most people don’t. This was extended family, not a mom. Not a sister. It was, according to the cousin, a single woman who wanted to spend one last thanksgiving with family.
And how do we know she didn’t have oxygen? Because Elan didn’t say “Opps the medical mask on her idiot face is actually because she has terminal cancer and now she’s using oxygen. My Bad.”?
That wouldn’t exactly help his story would it?
Look at this guys history. Read his tumblr. This is the 3rd time in a year he’s done something similar. Someone blogged the highlights here http://melissawashere.wordpress.com/2013/11/29/why-isnt-anyone-questioning-the-diane-story/
I’m sorry to hear your auntie has had cancer. But… um… me too. Never gave me the right to behave like a jerk, or to assume my needs are more important than anyone else’s on a plane. Yes, Elan did go over the top with his parting comment about ‘eat my…’ But it sounds like she was giving as good as she got. And if she truly is contrite for her behaviour, I’d rather hear it from herself, not a family member ‘excusing’ it on her behalf.
Before I got cancer, I, too, was considered bright, funny, and compassionate, with a self-deprecating sense of humour. I taught undergraduates English. I loved kids and there’s a few who loved me back. I loved to laugh. But… um… guess what? I still am and I still do.
Do NOT use cancer to excuse someone’s bad behaviour – you make a mockery of all of us who are coping with the disease and yet still manage to be good people.
It’s great way of initiating this kind of event it really helps for the eradication of bullying in our community. It is a great opportunity for everyone to help eliminate bullying in any means possible; this would be a perfect weapon in battling against bullying. Keeping children safety in the community, especially in their school is a great relief for parents who has been really busy to monitor their children’s safety. Let us always take actions against bullying so it could not harm children anymore. http://safekidzone.com/
I have to think that a man with a mother who gladly offers a picture of herself extending her middle finger towards someone she doesn’t know, to be posted all over the internet, wasn’t really raised to understand the concepts of “respect” and “compassion.”
Sorry, don’t buy the “terminal cancer” story for one second. Some of you are either gullible or looking for a reason to shore up your belief in the “bad guy”. And nor do I buy the idea that this is, at last initially, sexist or misogynist. A guy behaving the same way would have deserved a punch in the face. I despise people who treat “underlings” like crap, and actually dumped a girlfriend for doing it repeatedly. They would not do the same to anyone with power over them so it is controllable.
Nonny Mouse @68,
This is a good message, and I don’t want to detract from it.
But, to be somewhat pedantic: If you look at the actual claim provided (“I am a bit surprised you said you could hear her breathing, because Diane has stage IV small cell lung cancer. This would have been her last Thanksgiving with us.”) the proximate excuse is that she was fearful of missing one last Thanksgiving with her family, and the medical condition is the basis upon which that anxiety was founded (and also, upon which the writer attempts to cast doubt on Elan’s testimony).
(Whether that justified anxiety sufficiently excuses the boorishness is a similar but different issue)
Exactly, Nonny Mouse.
Nobody’s perfect, and most of us will behave badly or snap at someone who doesn’t deserve it occasionally. It doesn’t make you Pol Pot; you just don’t get a free pass for it is all. You apologize, move on, and try not to repeat it. I’m not talking about your mood, which you’re entitled to, I’m talking about how you treat others.
Anyone else see that the Y’s and E’s on Diane’s and Elan’s notes look the same? I am no expert but it sure looks like similar writing to me.
Where the fuck are all these new commenters coming from? There’s a strangely large number of them eager to announce how they’re morally superior to either a) dying cancer patients, or b) people who believe this story might be even partially true. And most of them suck at reading comprehension.
Dying isn’t a free pass to act like a douche, doesn’t make you any more important than anyone else, and this lady shouldn’t have treated the airline staff as poorly as she did. I hope she’s embarrassed as hell, and regrets this, cause her family has one hell of a last memory of her cause of her douchieness. Did the guy treat her badly? Probably, but did she need to have someone address her behaviour and stand up for the passengers and staff on that plane? Yes she did.
Don’t know about the veracity of the cancer story, but I guess whether or not it’s true it serves as a good reminder that everyone is coming from somewhere and even the most obnoxious person might just be a usually pleasant person having an awful day/week/month.
Also I feel like (and I could be wrong) the people who are saying it’s not sexual harassment on this site and others are mostly men. I’m not some crazy radical feminist with an agenda and neither am I paranoid towards men but I have to say this. As a woman it *is* instinctively threatening and unpleasant to be told “eat my dick” or “suck my dick” or whatever, simply because it is a real threat. To put it plainly, any man in a moment of agitation or aggression could overpower you and shove their dick into your mouth or whatever other orifice. Obviously not possible in the airplane setting, but yeah, still sexual harassment.
The original start and initial notes are what she deserved. Sick or not, that is NOT the way to treat those ‘under’ you, working, while you bitch. However, Elan crossed the line when he went rogue with ‘eat my dick’.
The glass of wine, the ‘keep calm’ and everything else, she more than deserved. That sense of entitlement, and I’m better than you is the biggest problem in today’s society.
Started out funny, ended badly. Almost saved as she SHOULD have gone to jail for assault. Sorry for her illness, but you know what? A LOT of people have cancer. A LOT of people run late. Her rudeness and sense of entitlement got paid back. Sorry she missed her dinner, but as they say. “She started it.”
DrDon (#78)
You might get a better reception for that observation if you could step off your high horse while delivering it.
I thought the post was hilarious and if this is true, it still doesn’t give her the right to be an jerk to people who are just doing their job.
C @ 77
I despise the trans* exclusionary feminist’s agenda as well. Oh, wait, you meant the *other* meaning of “radical feminist”… Yeah, that’s not going to go down well here.
I’m with A. Noyd: Where are these people coming from? Is it even worth responding to them? Most people just opine and leave, especially the type who are just expressing their Valuable Opinions© (to be used as a suppository only) willy-nilly.
The first clue that this woman was dealing with some extraordinary circumstances was how just inappropriate she was being in assuming she was the only one needing to get home for Thanksgiving.
The second clue was that she was wearing a medical mask…
The third clue was Diane’s inability to let go of her rage.
My very first thought on reading about the mask that was that she was a cancer patient on high dose steroids (pretty standard oncology treatment to suppress cancer growth). Having lived with a terminal cancer patient myself, I am intimately familiar with pharmacology induced “roid rage”. It grips the patient, often with little to no provocation. I used to want to crawl under a rock when my husband got triggered over imagine insults. When he was off the drugs, he returned to his normal, kind, thoughtful and generous self and was horrified at himself as well..
We simply never know what another person is dealing with to send them over the edge when they are well passed over to the far end of the bell shaped curve of “normal” behavior. Locking into a fight, committing oneself to being as ugly and punitive, vindictive, obscene and abusive as possible in response to bad behavior in others — as Elan did — is NEVER the answer.
Diane had an excuse. Elan didn’t.
I am thankful that Diane’s cousin completed the story. I hope we all take this to heart for the lesson it offers us.
She was still acting like a bitch and it doesn’t matter if it felt her need to be with her family was more pressing, there is absolutely nothing that flight attendants can do about it so yelling at the, and bitching at them and making everyone else uncomfortable will not fix her problems. In life, you keep learning lessons to the very end…
Em L (#83)
Here’s a lesson: don’t call women bitches and don’t refer to their bad behavior in gendered terms. After all, sexism makes women’s lives uncomfortable (to say the least).
Oh give it up. EVERYONE is going to DIE, oops did I ruin the spoiler? Shocking I know, but being ill is NO excuse for being an asshole. My aunt had leukemia and was the nicest thing no matter how horrid the circumstance because I DOUBT that a person terminally ill wants to be remembered as “the bitch who made a fuss in the airport”. This cancer pop up may or may not be true, but excusing her behavior with a sickness is NOT VALID. All I’m saying is learn to be kind to others, don’t try to back up your actions like this. Man up to what you did Diane, which was be incredibly rude on a day of giving thanks (glad your airport was up and running on thanksgiving, aren’t ya!).
It’s like someone’s running a psychology experiment in here with all the people demanding (of others) absolute moral perfection in the face of adversity.
I call Bullsh*t. Who makes a beloved terminally ill woman travel to all the family.
#teamelan
A Noyd @ 86:
Strange, isn’t it? My takeaway from this story is that one shouldn’t make presumptions about the state of mind of someone who seems irrationally agitate. Further, do not cause further aggravation to them without first trying to empathize with what their specific situation may be.
#85.
Why are you addressing Dianne as if she would read this or as if she is even real.
Why is anyone defending Elan so insistent that his version of events is the actual version?
Are you all lacking in critical thinking?
Are you so ready to believe someone who makes a living creating drama out of whole cloth that you are going to just assume this woman is real and that she deserves what she got simply because of what some TV producer tells you?
He is a story teller with a history of lying. It’s what he gets paid for.
Giving anecdotal evidence that your family member was special because they were never in a bad mood while dying belongs somewhere other than a free thought blog. Put that revisionist tale on your FB timeline. No one who uses logic and reason takes that as an actual norm.
If Dianne had cancer, she had multiple, scientific reasons she could have been acting out.
If she didn’t have cancer, she had obvious symptoms of being seriously ill and still had valid reasons.
He had zero reasons to sexually harass an obviously sick woman.
He has lots and lots of reasons to lie and make up a story. 100k new followers to watch his other lies is pretty powerful reinforcement for making up shit.
I expect “Dianne” will show up as soon as the story dies down in the media.
This story is a crock of sh*t. No source, no medical records, nothing. It’s a bullsh*t trolling story designed to make people feel bad about laughing at assholes who get their comeuppances. They are almost never authentic, and never ever include any actual information that could be used to verify the veracity of the poster’s claims.
Maggie, I am reading that most commenters who deplore Diane’s behavior are not “defending” Elan’s. We can simultaneously hold the opinions that “you shouldn’t be abusive to people who are working on a holiday to serve you,” and “you shouldn’t pick on or sexually harass someone who has already started to snap.” The veracity of the details of this particular tale doesn’t invalidate those opinions. I can opine that god is a capricious, vindictive, megalomaniacal bully, even though the tales I’m reacting to are fiction.
Thanks for this. When I read Elan’s account I kept waiting for the funny part. None of the exchanges were funny. Then I kept waiting for a redemptive moment. Nothing. Instead he kept escalating the problem. I don’t Diane but I’ve watched plenty of folks in distress make me selves a pain. If I can’t help. I say a prayer and get away from them. Whatever else Diane did or did not do for whatever reason Élan behaved badly. Period. Then he bragged about it. Not cool.
I’m unmoved by your defense of Diane. I’ll be the first to point out that Elan was rather vulgar in his delivery, but the spirit of his disdain has merit. Specifically:
* The airlines don’t delay or cancel flights on a whim, and it is preposterous to presume that such a decision would be reversed upon Diane informing them that it was important to her to get to her destination. (“Wait… you *need* to get there? Oh, my! We weren’t anticipating *that*. In that case, let’s stop our repair of the landing gear and get this bird in the air right now!”).
* Diane is the best judge of the importance of her being at her destination on time. If it really *were* that important! Diane would have booked a flight a day *early*. Booking a flight which arrives mere hours before a crucial event is foolhardy.
* Stuffing? Seriously?!?! If she had worked out the cure for cancer, or Fermat’s last theorem, then I can see the importance of imparting this info to the world. But this is a stuffing recipe, and I’m sure that there are thousands of better ones. This “emergency” is all about Diane’s (excusable or not) existential crisis and need to feel that something about her will be around in the next generation.
In closing, I think this whole episode was due to Diane’s existential panic over her diminishing time on this earth (and her poor planning). But each of us is an inconsequential molecule in the ocean of mankind, and having a terminal illness does not bestow upon us any greater consequence. Being diagnosed with cancer does not mean you get to meet the president, or exceed posted speed limits, or un-delay airline flights. Diane’s mistake was in assuming that the world would revolve around her to accommodate her error in planning. Elan’s mistake was in being an un-deft asshole about it. But, in the end, I think Elan’s perspective was more correct.
If I remember the twitter string correctly, Diane made a fuss while the plane was at the gate but once she sat down and the plane pushed back, she didn’t say anything. Elan, the twit, just escalated things by being a first class douche and needling the woman. And needling her some more. And some more. And she responded accordingly. A slap in the face was nothing. i think she should’ve given him a swift kick in the balls.
Joe Emenaker @ 93
Um, how do you know on which days she tried to book her flight? Maybe flights were filled? Maybe there was a long layover on another? Maybe she couldn’t afford earlier tickets until someone from her family raised the funds? Maybe she couldn’t afford a hotel room for that extra night?
Besides, if we’re going to chide someone’s planning ability, let’s also be fair in chiding Elan for not bringing headphones with him to drown out some temporary annoyance.
It wasn’t imparting the info “to the world,” it was imparting it to her family and enjoying the family tradition with them. Critical difference being that, to her, and from her perspective, these things were vitally important, and she had a firmer grasp on just how important they were due to her condition. I guess it only matters when some uppity bitch is gettin all up on some douchebag television producer’s nerves, then it’s no longer a “first world problem” situation, but a crucial teaching moment.
She wasn’t hijacking the plane or harming anyone. She was allegedly being petulant with people who are trained to deal with unruly passengers and then stopped once she was seated. Not cool, but everyone get’s stressed out now and again, and sometimes we behave badly. No one is entitled to act that way, but I would expect that an attempt would be made to be sympathetic before jumping into full-on retaliatory asshat mode for something solidly in the past.
Joe Emenaker @93:
If you refer to the OP (and thus to Ophelia), you are imagining things.
If you refer to some of the comments, at most they invoke mitigating factors for her behaviour, rather than a defense of it.
Your first sentence there is in total agreement with the OP; your second, however, disagrees with it — and I note that you made no attempt to justify such disagreement.
I agree with joe. Everyone is simply trying to justify her behavior by the fact she has lung cancer. How about we learn to take responsibility for our actions. How many times do you hear people getting depressed and having it so bad and they end up killing someone…so do we not send them to jail because their depression of losing someone or their job justifies their actions? No. Diane was being an ass and it’s sad she has lung cancer
and im sorry for her family but it in no way can justify being rude to people and treating them that way. Elan was an ass too with his comments but telling someone.to “eat a dick” is not that big a deal. Someone always has to bring the sexism card in it. Lol I doubt he made that comment simply because she’s a woman.
Newsflash folks. Just because you’re suffering with some illness or facing death doesn’t mean you get carte blanche to be a nuisance to everyone around you. My wife and I lost a dear friends 2 years ago to cancer and we watched her deteriorate over the course of 8 months and die, and she maintained her grace and composure throughout, never once behaving like some spoiled rotten little brat and taking it out on those around her. So spare me the excuses. Obviously, I feel terribly for Diane and wish her the best, but behaving like the world owes you something because you are dying (guess what–you’re not the first, lady) is idiotic. That’s not an excuse.
Thank you, Andre Richards! Well said
Man, most of you people can suck a dick. No one knows if the woman exists and even if she did, no one knows whether she has cancer. In the grand scheme this means nothing.
[meta]
Ale1234:
Shame it has nothing to do with the actual post this comment thread is supposedly discussing, and shame that it’s furthermore addressing a straw dummy (as I’ve twice now noted (@96 most recently)).
I will begin by saying that (if this story is even true) I do not support the actions of either party and believe them both to have behaved like children. That beings said I think that we should not be so hasty as to ascribe direct, intended sexual harassment to the use of the phrase “eat my dick”. I know it’s easy to say that a man saying such to a woman is overtly sexual but you really need to think about the situation and normal use of the term first.
While “eat my dick” certainly is a masculine phrase and conjures images of a phallus and an oral cavity, note he did not say “suck”. He then followed up in a later note by stating that the woman should be arrested for cannibalism, for “eating my dick” thus implying he meant she was to literally eat part of his body.
I think that clearly it is a knee-jerk reaction to classify this as intended sexual harassment. Insensitive, sure. Classless? Absolutely. Sexual Harassment, yes it was! I have a hard time believing, however that he meant it in an actual sexual manor and find it more likely that he used a common turn of phrase with intent to insult or injure in a clearly non-sexual manor.
/flame on
AM (#102)
As a regular commenter here, lemme just say, “fuck your ‘we.'” Also, way to fail at reading comprehension. “Direct, intended sexual harassment”? Who the fuck is saying that and why would it matter? Sexual harassment is sexual harassment, whether it’s explicitly calculated or not.
The knee-jerk reaction is your thoughtless and under-informed dismissal of the possibility that women are harassed by such language.
Well, an argument from incredulity just shows that you’re ignorant. It doesn’t matter how common a turn of phrase is. When a phrase invokes sex and you use it against a person who don’t want to hear it, regardless of intent, that is sexual harassment. Your complacency with the pervasiveness of this sort of harassment just means you’re part of the problem, not that you know better than everyone who calls harassment what it is
Jeez, but I really hope that if any of these unsympathetic, judgmental assbags ever find themselves facing a lonely and painful descent into the imminent nullification of their very existence, they don’t come across anyone like themselves who would scold them with bullshit about “everyone dies” or “just because you’re about to perish” or “this other dying person I knew” or whatever. But it would be nice if they learned how shitty they’re being in a hyper-realistic dream or something.
The major problem is that there is a circular argument of blame going on here. Who was douchier, who started it, etc. This is truly beside the point.
The real question is whether you can justify what either person did? The answer flatly is no. Assuming that both the story is true and Elan’s perception of the events were accurate, if you defend either person’s behavior, you are essentially a consequentialist. In other words, you believe the end justifies the means. That is why the argument is perpetually circular and can never be resolved. The point at which bad behavior is okay is moveable and determined by who you identify with and, as many of you have indicated, can change with the circumstance (i.e. “I thought it was funny until the eat my dick line” or “her behavior was rude but cut her some slack she’s about to die”).
At the end of the day, all any of us can do is try to treat others with kindness and compassion. if you react to a situation with violence (verbal or otherwise and, in my humble opinion there was violence in Elan’s voice from the jump) you can not hope to resolve a situation to everyone’s mutual benefit. You may still lose but you will be a better person for practicing kindness over violence.
I still find it funny. Although both parties could have handled themselves better. All Diane had to do was be polite and none of this would have happened. I understand that she will pass due to her cancer, and I admire her brave face, what I do not admire is someone’s ability to be so inconsiderate of others. Spending time with family during the Holiday Season is extremely important and memorable. I can see how Elan’s “Eat my dick” comment is considered sexual harassment, and I agree that it was crude and unnecessary, but at the same time you have to find the humor in it. Remember there are always two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in between. Again, I’m just saying that BOTH parties could have handled themselves better.
Dear A Noyd, I am sorry that you were so upset with my opinion. I did state that it was clearly sexual harassment and that I did not support the behavior, simply that I doubt he intended it as such. This does not excuse it, his ignorance does not save someone from being harmed by his comments. I put together a clear, relatively neutral post, I knew that someone like yourself would probably skim it in a rage and pick out the sections they might like to quote. The post remains, re-read it if you like but I want you to know that your subsequent attack on me is a little harsh.
I did not condone his actions. I acknowledged said actions as sexual harassment. I simply made an observation about the way we choose to view things in this crazy world. Would we be as quick to chalk it up to intended sexual harassment if he had made the same note to a man? It certainly WOULD be sexual harassment but how quick would we be to call it such? (and yes I have heard this turn of phrase directed at men before)
Please don’t be so upset A Noyd, it’s unbecoming.
Also I am very sorry for misspelling manner as manor, kind of you to point this out for “us”
This whole thing might be a hoax…..an invented story to get the twitterverse and blogosphere yakking. No Diane, no cancer, no nothing.
AM (#107)
What’s the matter? Scared to answer questions about who said anything about intent? Do you have to make up nonsense about my emotional state to salve your ego because the alternative—the admission you were arguing with a wholly irrelevant figment of your imagination—would hurt too much?
Oh, sorry, you did say that. Except you also contradicted yourself with that bit about needing to “think about the situation and normal use of the term first.” I mean, why even say that if you agree it’s sexual harassment? Then you made up a ridiculous strawman about the relevance of intent which gave your post even more of a denialist air. Because even if someone had “ascribe[d] direct, intended sexual harassment”—which they didn’t—it wouldn’t even fucking matter; the primary issue in harassment is the harm done, not whatever’s going on in the head of the harasser.
Aww, do you need a band-aid?
Clearly you’re new to FtB. Because the “we” that hangs out here definitely would (minus the “intent” bit because we don’t give a fuck about that). And people here would like to make that understanding true of a more inclusive “we.” So maybe you should look into the local customs before deploying that pronoun. It’ll save you from looking like a condescending idiot.
Alright, there’s no conversation to be had here I see. I use the term “we” to mean us, as people. Believe it or not you and I have similarities! As a fellow reader of this story and it’s associated media I simply grouped myself with the rest of you reading the same material, it was not an attempt to insert myself into your hyper-critical clique.
I truly am sorry for agitating you, however it is clear that to you agitation comes naturally.
Let’s talk about the third character in this little drama. The flight attendant. He is the only one in this story with actual professional responsibility. At first he is handling things well. He is de-escalating the situation. He is understanding of her distress. (“I understand ma’am. I’m looking forward to seeing my family too.”) He is maybe apologising for the problems this delay will cause her. The plane takes off, she is sitting down. The situation seems to have been diffused.
And now, for some inexplicable reason he thinks it is a good idea to conspire with another passenger to provoke her? Elan writes: “I sent the lady a glass of wine and a note”. Send her how? Via the flight attendant? He agreed to this? Why? I would like to emphasize that he is the person with a professional responsibility for the safety on-board. A flight attendant is not just a server at altitude! He should have told Elan no. He should definitely not have provided two little bottles of alcohol for personal delivery by Elan. He should not be the passed-notes message-boy between the two. He should be telling Elan: “Yes she is being an asshole, but your proposed action is not helping. Stay in your seat, sir. May I get you something?”
In this story I see two people being ordinary assholes, and one person committing a professional fault. If there is any truth to this story, he ought to be reprimanded.
Think given the history of false/exagerated stories from this guy* it’s safe to say that this incident either didn’t happen or at least didn’t happen as he described it.
Assuming it’s true for a moment, I find it interesting that nobody has seriously considered the perspective of the cabin crew here. Imagine you’re working on a holiday, you’ve probably spent all day dealing with irate/annoying members of the public. Somebody is impatient and rude to you but you manage to talk them down and the whole thing seems settled, then some other dickhead decides to aggravate them further to make a point, putting you in the middle of it by having you deliver a snarky note. Is that helpful?
*The blind date story is particularly interesting, since if it’s true it’s basically a story about how this pseduo-celeb gets off on publically harassing women anyway – http://crasstalk.com/2012/06/abc-producer-live-tweets-a-blind-date/
Huh, that’ll teach me to refresh before commenting. Hadn’t seen the comment above mine.
@keusnua – perhaps he didn’t read the note? Don’t know if you’ve ever worked in that kind of environment on a busy day but a flight attendant on a full flight on a holiday is probably rushed off their feet and pretty stressed out themselves. It’s easy to say he should have done this or that in hindsight.
Elan is a known liar and a five star asshat, but it seems a little unfair to be attacking the fight attendant over something that may not even have happened.
@Southern Fried – Somehow I can’t see a flight attendant not reading this note. I mean, it is for a passenger that was upset just a bit ago. Is it common occurrence that passengers pass each other little handwritten notes?
And, sure it is probably a stressful work environment, that flight. But this is a known factor, known in advance, that a holiday flight will be stressful. Presumably flight attendants train for dealing with awful passengers that are unhappy about delays. If not, they should. They should learn not to take it personally. Apologise on behalf of the airline company. Defuse angry or upset feelings. Go get another attendant to take over a situation if one of them is getting fed up and can’t handle it any more. That kind of things. These people work in people management.
It is not that this is an attendant that got treated badly and lashed out in a moment of anger. No! He actively conspires with another passenger to pass provocative notes. A passenger can’t just make a flight attendant deliver a note. The attendants are not servants of the passengers who have to do whatever they are told. So I think it is clear that the attendant would have checked the note. In particular as it is addressed to a problem passenger. But the attendant passes the note. Then he continues to play along, with the little bottles of vodka, and nowhere does Elan seem to be actively discouraged from his stupid little ‘war’. This makes the flight attendant a willing participant. And he is supposed to be the professional here. In a position of authority aboard this plane, even! Yes, I do expect better from such a person than from a random asshole.
For the purpose of the previous comment, and this, for arguments sake, I took the story at face value, yes. You are maybe right, it never happened, or maybe not like this. And you are right in your first comment. The situation had been diffused. So why would the same attendant then decide to blow it up again? I think maybe that is the bit that most makes this story not believable to have happened like this.
There is an excellent chance that this entire story is completely fake. Creating emotionally manipulative stories is what this guy does for a living, after all.
I’d like to point out that Stephen Covey used to tell a far more gentle version of almost this, except it was a single dad on a subway car with unruly kids, Covey merely mildly remonstrates the man, and the kicker is that they are on the way home from the hospital after their mother has died.
Not saying that this did not happen, but the parallels are somewhat eerie and Covey’s books are widely read.
“On the basis of knowing people with terminal, chronic, or serious illnesses who did not all of a sudden begin abusing service people when they became ill. If they were nice before, they stayed nice. If they were selfish before, they remained so.” –
There’s been several comments like this “I know people with/ I have cancer and they stayed polite, kind people.”
I’d just like to say that, even leaving aside the fact that massively increased stress can cause anyone to have a bad moment, and their entire personality shouldn’t be judged on it, I have know at least 2 people whose personality radically changed while undergoing long term chemotherapy. Chemo involves high doses of incredibly toxic chemicals, that very certainly can change your brain chemistry. (That’s not a “chemo is evil” comment, its a “chemo is so nasty no-one would do it if the alternative wasn’t worse comment”).
@keusnua Actually, a man sending a woman a drink and a note isn’t so unusual that I’d expect a service worker to seriously question it (though tbh, I find that kind of thing creepy beyond all reckoning even when the intent is friendly).
To be perfectly frank, fuck that shit. Working with the public isn’t a free pass for other people to treat somebody like shit, whether they’ve trained for it or not.
Not sure if you’ll be familiar with the concept of affective labour – the value added to a service by emotional work. So (often highly stressed, poorly paid) workers are expected to put up with customers’ bullshit with a smile and pretend to genuinely care about their tedious and petty problems, further adding to service workers’ high risk of work related stress. This is both a class issue and a feminist issue, since we’re generally talking about jobs with shitty pay that are often predominantly done by women.
Thank you for writing this article. It made me so sad to see this man and others take so much pleasure in his cruelty towards the lady ‘Diane.’ I kept thinking of that quote: ‘Be kind, for everyone you know is fighting a hard battle.’ You never know what struggles people are going through. And now it seems she was fighting one of the things we all fear the most. So what if she wasn’t handling it well. I know I wouldn’t. This man took pleasure in humiliating a dying woman because she wasn’t coping. Wow, that’s pretty cruel.
I call Bullshit.
Typical Symptoms of Stage IV Lung Cancer:
Persistent cough
Coughing up blood (hemoptysis)
Shortness of breath
Hoarseness
Pain the chest, back, shoulder or arms
Repeated episodes of pneumonia or bronchitis
Wheezing
Source: http://lungcancer.about.com/od/typesoflungcancer/a/stage4lungca.htm
Was the “eat my dick” comment appropriate? Nope.
Should a critical thinker accept an anonymous source? Nope.
Alternatively, we all got Andy Kaufmanned.
Manofthewest, you have a point – I thought of the possibility that the cancer had metastasized to her brain as a valid excuse for Diane’s rudeness. But this just seems like an exercise in loading the premises with provisos to avoid an unwanted conclusion.
For example, in the ethical dilemma – “Would you reroute a runaway train so it killed only one person instead of five?”, – “yes” would be the popular and defensible answer. Then you can start piling on the details – “What if the one was a baby and the 5 were rapists?”
What we are having here is an argument about an ethical dilemma where we can be sure of very few details about the premises, and everyone is arguing a slightly different set of them. It’s actually 2 ethical dilemmas – The case of Elan and the case of Diane, and the two cases are separable. For example, I think Elan’s (purported) behavior was horrible regardless of the actual facts of Diane’s behavior and mitigating factors.
Everyone needs to STOP saying he bullied her. BS. Her situation is awful and my heart goes out to her and her family and I will pray for her health. That being said she acted badly. He did in return. Put it where it belongs and move on but do not use trigger words like bullying. That’s annoying. It was an argument. Done.
Wait..wait…”Bullying” is a fucking trigger word, but “Eat my dick” is not bullying?
Seriously, what’s with the douche bag parade in these comments?
If that is your heart going out to people, Michele, you should just keep it home.
Oh my gosh, you people really need to get off this bullying train. Seriously, stop. Diane having cancer negates nothing, but if it makes y’all feel better to call Élan a bully because NOW you know she had cancer, be my guest. She was still a dick, and I’m still Team Élan. Keep it 100, and don’t pop over to the “I can’t believe he would be a bully” side. Seriously though, drop the bullying bullshit. Diane was an asshole, period. There’s always one.
No one has seen a picture of this woman. She may be fake. Her niece may fake too. I think this is a great story about manners, but I’m not feeling sorry for anyone until we find out what really happened.
My take on this: 1- If you need to be somewhere important on Thanksgiving, you don’t travel on Thanksgiving.
2- It’s weird that a woman who tells the whole world that she needs to make stuffing doesn’t mention that she has cancer and will die soon. (Hence me taking “neice”‘s letter with shaker of salt.)
3- WHy would you sign your name to notes when you think someone is harassing you? (Hence me thinking “Diane” is fake.)
4- A passenger who slaps another in the airport and she is detained? Hmmmmmmm
5 – An aggressive passenger held up in an airport and it doesn’t make the news, except as a human interest story? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Yep. I wrote much the same (though slightly more long-windedly) on my blog (here, if you’re interested.) And it doesn’t really matter whether the “cousin’s” story is true or not. It could have been, and he could have used the opportunity to create something wonderful, instead of to destroy someone else for cheap applause and laughs. Failing that, he could have simply ended the first note a line earlier, and probably succeeded in shutting her up. But I guess that wouldn’t have made quite as big a web-splash?
Okay, so since she has cancer she gets a free pass for being a dick to people? No, I don’t think so. My wife had stage IV breast cancer and she was nice to everyone. Well, except to me, but that’s something to deal with in a marriage at a difficult time.
AM (#111)
Well, yeah, it’s hard to converse with someone who refuses to deal with the fact that they went off on a massive strawman argument. I didn’t think you could fess up. Sad. Go on, run away with your tail between your legs. Pretend the problem is the others here, not your massive dishonesty and inability to comprehend what others are saying.
Believe it or not, we also have differences! And they matter! Why would you presume that similarities (go on, name a few) matter more than those differences? Oh, right, because you’re as stupid as you are patronizing.
That’s funny. I mean, you were responding primarily to something that isn’t in any of the “material.” So you have no basis for grouping yourself with anyone else besides the other people who fail at reading comprehension.
C (#126)
Well, what an immature sense of morality and responsibility you have. Diane’s actions don’t mean a damn thing for whether Elan was bullying her. Bullying people who do wrong is still bullying.
I thought the tweets were funny until the “eat my dick” comment too. This? about the dying aunt? Who has the only recipe for the family dressing? Does anyone believe this? Because frankly, I don’t.
Incidentally, this woman was allegedly competent enough to travel alone. The plane was delayed. Nobody delayed it on purpose. Her protest to the flight attendant about how important it was for her to get home? Not. Relevant. Travel around the holidays is always screwed up, a fact well know to everyone but this exceptional woman. It would have been perfectly correct to say, “I’m so angry about the delay. Could you get me a drink, please?” Bitching to the flight attendant, though, is rude. The flight attendant has absolutely no control over the matter, and only the supremely self-involved will complain to them about matters that they can’t help.
If Elan was a woman you narrow minded idiots wouldn’t be saying anything about sexism. Eat a dick is a common insult used by immature people, it is used on both women and men and isn’t sexist you brainwashed cattle. Get over your feminized bs. If the story is true both parties are assholes and it was indeed a bit overboard on the bully factor, but get your head out of your ass on the sexism. Equal rights means men can call me the same insults they use on other men it doesn’t mean the sheer mention of a penis, is automatically sexist.
For people wondering where all the new commenters are coming from – this post got tweeted a LOT yesterday and still is being tweeted today, so there’s a lot of new traffic. That’s all; nothing sinister.
Dawn (#133)
Who the fuck are you even talking to? Do you know where you are? Do you know anything about feminist discourse on this blog? No, obviously not. Your understanding of feminism and sexism in general seem to be stuck at a kindergarten level, for that matter. You should keep to sites where no one is expected to know WTF they’re talking about and sheer belligerence might actually convince an opponent. That’s not how things work here.
Ophelia (#134)
I never figured it was sinister. I’m more wondering what commenting culture and ethical background they’re coming from. The number of them exhibiting a combination of arrogant lack of self awareness and eagerness to lay down rather absolutist judgment really stands out against the local culture. I mean, is that just how most people outside of FtB are, or is it something cultivated on a particular blog/site/network/whatever?
(Not all of the newcomers are like that, of course, just a lot of them.)
The only bright side to this story (be it true or fiction) is that we should all be reminded to give the ‘Dianes’ in our lives the benefit of the doubt. Maybe we can be a little less judgmental. When we see someone in distress, isn’t it better to try to calm them. And if we can’t do that at least not antagonize them, certainly not for entertainment or publicity sake.
Some people have said terminal cancer is no pass to be rude. Who you choose to forgive or not for whatever infraction is a personal choice. Diane gets a pass from me. God bless.
Just because you are having a terrible time (and yes, if she really is in stage IV cancer, it’s extremely rough on her), that DOESN’T give you the right to treat people who you deem “beneath you” shit about something they have no control over. And that’s what she was doing, giving the flight attendants shit over something they had no control over. And making everybody else on the plane have to deal with her hissy fit.
If the “passing down of Aunt Dianne’s secret stuffing recipe” was really so important, then all the nieces will figure out a way to get it. Those who can’t make the rescheduled T’giving can find out the recipe and technique from those who could.
And also, I don’t feel the least bit sorry for a woman who didn’t make her connecting flight due to her own fault. She ASSAULTED a stranger. Yes, he egged her on, but she ASSAULTED as stranger. If the ONLY consequence is that she missed T’giving with the family, she’s extremely lucky.
Should he have done what he did? No. I’m not saying he did right. But her terminal illness does not give her the right to be a class one bitch to anybody.
Why should we believe the follow up. Unverified, and convenient. It was funny. End of story.
BobC562@94:
So glad you’re here to determine for us what level of physical assault is the appropriate punishment.
This is the wrong site to start calling for people to be kicked in the genitals.
both of their behavior was ridiculous & rude.
cancer doesn’t make her behavior any better or more forgivable.
A. Noyd @136:
Eh, they read to me like the comments section underneath most newspaper articles or major media sites, or like callers to talk radio. Lots of “strong opinions” that the author presumes are discussion-enders: “Stop saying [something different from my opinion.] If you [blah de blah blah] then YOU are in the wrong. Period.”
Sadly, this is what most people think passes for discussion, because it’s the way most of the highly-paid personalities in the media opinion world act.
Are you people for real? In what universe is ÉLAN the bully here??? Diane bullied the flight attendant, Élan stood up for somebody who cannot stand up for themselves, and all of a sudden he’s a bully? Élan is a hero. Not only did he protect somebody whose job it is to serve us, not only did he take a bully(and that’s what Diane is – a bully), but he had the decency to walk away…WHEN SHE SLAPPED HIM! How is that part of the story not getting more attention here? Even if you somehow think a Élan was the bully here(he wasn’t), even if you somehow think he sexually harassed her(he didn’t – “eat my dick” doesn’t mean oral sex, it means eat his dick, he called her a cannibal for doing so! It’d be no different than telling her to eat his toe.), you’re overlooking the fact(and this is inarguable) that Diane turned to violence. Violence is far worse than Elan’s form of bullying or sexual harassment.
By the way, Diane’s cancer? Irrelevant. I’m sorry that her and her family have to go through that, but that changes nothing here. That does not condone her actions, as I’m sure many other people on the plane(including the flight attendant who she told “this isn’t about you”) were just as eager to get home and be with their families.
Now, personally, I doubt every part of this story. I don’t think Diane exists, I don’t think Élan exchanged the notes with anybody, and if he did I most certainly do not believe Diane’s cousin wrote this – as you can see from the comments here, there are a lot of selfish, depraved, antisocial jackasses who think Élan was somehow in the wrong here, and I’m sure the note came from one of them, not anybody who knows Diane, if it didn’t come from Elan himself – but if it is…thank you, Élan. The world would be a better place if there were more Elans and less Dianes out there. Thank you.
screechymonkey (#140)
Quite!
(#142)
No wonder it seems unfamiliar. I just have to boggle at all the people who leave a comment without reading most of the others and then take off never to return. Like, why waste the energy? There’s more point to how a dog pees on a fire hydrant.
lol Elan is a hero for what? How did DIane bully the flight attendant? By complaining that she was going to be late and miss her dinner. Did she curse at them? Spit at them? Physically assault them? Call them offensive names?
Nope. None of that.
Listen, I live in a US Northeast city that is infamous for calling people out on rude behavior. Just this morning, I told someone who cut in line to get to the back. I didn’t tell them to eat ANY part of my body or tell them I hated them. Or followed them around and harassed them. Elan is a bully. Not a hero. Not even close.
If you think the world would be a better place because people like Elan is policing it, then the next time you do something rude or stupid in public, and you will because we all do it one time or another, imagine Elan running up to you and telling you to “eat his dick”.
Do you normally offer old ladies with face masks a Glass of wine?
I’m sorry. There is never an excuse for rudeness. It’s good that she’s contrite but I’m appalled that ill health somehow becomes an excuse for being rude, disrespectful and patronising. You’d think a terminal diagnosis would make one more grateful for the small things like having a family to get back to in the first place. Élan turned her attitude back on her tough if people don’t approve. A dr once said to me ‘if people are gits when they get old you can guarantee they were Gits when they were young’. In other words this behaviour obviously came naturally to her.
Any passenger that instigates another is causing a really scary situation. Please ignore this. Don’t make it a thing. All feels like a giant troll by a guy who should know better.
@Thank You Élan (#143)
You know, it’s possible to intervene for the sake of a flight attendant without doing any of the gratuitously cruel and antagonizing things Elan did? He’s a bully because he chose the cruel and antagonizing route. Diane’s misbehavior does not in any way justify Elan’s. Elan’s actions were unnecessary and wrong and thus they make the world a worse place.
Seriatim Wood (#147)
Actually, I wouldn’t think that because in reality people are way more emotionally complex than a goddamn Hallmark movie.
Apparently those who are “turning back” the rudeness of another do get an excuse. Which is bullshit, because Elan could have made his point in a thousand other ways. Why the double standard?
A. Noyd @144:
I think for those people, the point is to vent, not to communicate. It’s like the cranky relative who forwards the latest right-wing screed to everyone in his or her address book, or makes a snotty political comment at Thanksgiving dinner, and then gets all huffy if you respond, because GEEZ, I wasn’t asking for a debate!
Jebus fuck, these idiots are hurting my brain.
Look, whether Diane exists or was sick or was an asshole or not is irrelevant to whether Elan Gale’s behavior was appropriate. It was not. It was bullying.
1. Sending a drink to a stranger is not actually all that nice if you’re not in a bar. How do you know she’s not a recovering alcoholic?
2. It’s doubly not-nice when it’s accompanied by a note that basically says, Drink this wine so you will shut up.
3. Elan Gale repeated to her that he would like to shut her up by putting his penis in her mouth. That is aggressive and yes it is sexual harassment.
4. Getting out of his seat, delivering drinks to her himself, and taking a photo of her seat? Also rude, intimidating, and aggressive.
Elan Gale is not a fucking hero.
Wow, I kinda wish I had cancer so I can have carte blanche to be mean to people in the service industry, and when people call you out on it, you can tell them what you have, and then the guilt trip is on them.
I’ve paid my dues, I’ve done my time, and I am glad not to have a job primarily in retail or fast food, or even general-public call center jobs.
It’s all fake. He gained over 120,000 followers on twitter after this “war”. I don’t believe any of it.
There are a lot more important things to worry about than a stupid story on twitter. Geez get a life people.
R.V. @153:
Yeah, you beat the crap out of that straw man! All those people who have been arguing for “carte blanche” sure got told by you!
Next up: R.V. forcefully argues that murder is bad.
Without knowing anything else, he made the choice to engage with someone who was having a bad day instead of leaving her alone like everyone else on the flight apparently did. Maybe she is an asshole and acts like this all the time. Maybe somebody’s lying about her having cancer. It doesn’t change the fact that he chose to insert himself into a bad situation and make it worse. Whether it was to teach someone a lesson or for his own entertainment, that’s what he did.
Liddlebitz @155:
That’s true. But there is nothing more important to worry about than whether or not people are commenting on the internet about something you think isn’t important. Glad you took time out from all the other important things you do to lecture us about priorities!
> What I did today was just point out something we all know: Be nice.
No, don’t lie. You provoked her, hoping for more. You said you planned “revenge.” You sent her alcohol. (I’m surprised the flight attendants allowed this.) In short, you threw gasoline on a fire and then acted surprised when it flared up even bigger. Don’t be so modest and claim you were :only reminding her to be nice.” That’s a lie by your own lengthy and detailed documentation.
I agree….a total fake. We haven’t seen Diane….we haven’t seen a picture of Diane….we haven’t heard fellow passengers who witnessed the whole thing and we haven’t heard from the flight crew. We’re also supposed to believe Elan suddenly became the bigger person and decided not to press charges. Where are all the cell phone videos of this woman.
The guy is a total tool. Can’t stand him. You really think a guy who hides behind his mass murderer looks doesn’t have a need for attention? Yeesh.
not to be uncaring… but if she would have explained to everyone on the plane why she was freaking out, I’d bet not a person on that plane would have doubted her concern. But to be able to loudly harass and verbally complain about a situation everyone was stuck in, and then not have the decency to continue explaining why this was so important, blows my mind.
Surely, if this was my last Thanksgiving with my family, flying by myself, for that fact everyone on that plane would know I was dying and why I was so freaked out.
I’ve unfortunately known far too many people who were in their dying throws of cancer, and not one of them used it as an excuse to be a douche. Yes, he did overstep by saying “eat my dick”, but he was probably really sick of her. AND… she was just as petty to respond to the dude with a follow-up letter. She should have returned the drink, said I am in stage 4 lung cancer and this will effect my meds. I’m sure at that point, this story would have taken a much needed turn.
I also wonder how many people on that plane were also having their last Thankgiving with a dying loved one? She was a selfish selfish woman
1. Funny how all that gets questioned is whether or not Diane’s cancer is real, never whether all the nasty stuff said about her actually is true
2. Apparently, since she did not behave 100% OK, whatever this guy did is OK. Or at least excusable. Having cancer excuses nothing, somebody else not being 100% perfect excuses everything.
3. It stopped being funny the moment he engaged her. Ridiculing a visibly upset person is a guarantee to make that person even more upset and escalate the situation, so all he did was with the goal and intention to create even more of a scene.
4. How disgusting must this guy’s dick be if that’s the worst punishment he can obviously imagine?
I love how we are now looking at Diane as the good guy and this other guy as the bad guy. She was being a fucking asshole. No offense to her, but if T-day is her favorite holiday and this was her last one, she should have left another day earlier to ensure she doesn’t miss her flight. She’s an idiot and her attitude on the plane wasn’t appropriate regardless of her imminent death.
Actions define a person and I don’t care if you are about to die, your actions should remain peaceful and caring. My grandmother did that throughout her fight.
No respect is given to Diane from me.
I think questioning the validity of this story is irrelevant. The reaction to the story from society is what is revealing. The reaction of laughter and the hatred directed towards Diane is revealing. What did she do to deserve what Elan dished out to her? She complained? She was anxious, and she voiced her anxiety? His reaction to this fake or otherwise and more importantly — the reaction of the people who read the story –is what matters here. There is a comradely here of hatred directed towards Diane that is completely exaggerated. Even though Elan told her to eat his dick and took aggressive actions towards her (reacting with his own baggage in my opinion–including male entitlement). Everyone is talking about her “entitlement” but no one is talking about his. Why? Could it be because she has no right to feel entitled, but he does because she is a woman and he is a man? If he perceives her actions as entitlement, he must take her down a notch to her proper female place and he does this with his male entitlement and all of the audience cheers him on! This is very revealing and disgusting.
Hot damn. Gender erasure and comprehension fail. Who is this “we”? Can you quote someone saying that Diane acted appropriately?
Behold! the moral superiority of #teamelan! I’m an atheist but I just have to say, “Y’all need some Jesus up in your life.” Specifically the Jesus who said some stuff about stones and logs and planks.
A real man or gentleman would be the one who sees right through someone’s ridiculous behavior to know something else is going on.
If he had went over to her and said, “I see that you’re upset, tell me what’s going on.”…..then maybe, I would’ve eaten his dick. But, tweeting it out to your hundreds or thousands or twitter followers so that you can ridicule someone amongst your friends and then pat yourself on the back for being an airborne hero is utterly ridiculous.
If you act like a tool and look like a tool (or a mass murderer)….then Elan, you are indeed a tool.
if a total stranger told your dying wife or grandmother to ‘eat my dick’ how would you have responded? What is the protocol reply to that statement? Oh, and tweeted it. And laughed with his friends about it?
Somebody claims that Diane has cancer, and everybody buys into it? Sorry, but she did behave rather terribly, not that Etan was super polite, but why should he have to listen to somebody ranting and making a spectacle, when the whole damned plane was in the same situation – DELAYED!
What bothers me (as a woman) is that because Diane is a woman, the comment was sexually harassing her, it might be an age thing, but for the younger generation it’s a (admittedly crude) figure of speech. Now if a woman would have reacted the way Etan had reacted and Diane would have been a man, I bet the reactions would be different.
Let’s face it, Diane’s behavior was out of order, Etan could have been more polite and left out the eat dick comment, but after her initial behavior (which includes HER bullying the male flight attendant and being rude to him), I don’t think she deserves all that much sympathy.
Michele (#164)
Yessss, this. All of this. I doubt the people you’re talking about even know themselves why they’re excusing Elan’s entitlement and scolding Diane for hers, but it’s really apparent there’s a double standard.
I got through about 2/3s of the comments before I got bored of the repetition.
I cry B/S on pretty much everyone except Ophelia.
All of you who claim she had no right to be upset and *crab at the flight crew*. Nope, probably right. BUT, if you are honestly saying that you have never gotten your last nerve snapped and been harsh, even mean with somebody, then you are flat out lying or delusional.
To the person who said no one was calling Elan a bully before this revelation of Diane’s “cancer”, oh hon, how wrong you are. It was my second thought after “what an a**hole”
To the people who think that someone dying or severe illness is not a good excuse to get upset or to have a personality change, well, all I can say is that I hope you live in your happy little ignorance for a long time because clearly you don’t know anyone who is like that.
Sequel to the previous paragraph. Just because you know terminal people who are always happy doesn’t mean they always are. Are you with them all the time or only socially? Are you with them when they go into the bathroom and sob, wipe off their face and come out?
To the people believing the newly revealed “Diane” story. I don’t know. Might be real. Might not. It’s a great 3rd act denouement although if he did make all his bad behavior crap up, then this just makes him look like a bigger douche so it seems unlikely he would have written it. I could easily see someone who disliked his story writing this. Or she could genuinely be real and sick.
But, yeah, people snap and are rude to people. It happens all the time for big (dying) or little (stupid 2 hours to drive 30 minute traffic) reasons. I’ve done it (disclaimer sort of: I recognize when I have reached that point but can’t usually get up the strength to pull back, so I always apologize in advance and afterwards) and I’m perfectly healthy and reasonably sane.
Whether or not he made it up or happened, he was the bigger moron (and if it was made up, wow, dude, )
The lesson is: Be nice. That’s it. If you can’t be nice, apologize later (another thing…(if a true story) if she had been allowed to just sit the flight out and calm down, she might very well have apologized to the flight attendant on the way out, but she was never given the option.).
And, in the spirit of that last, I do apologize if my tone seems harsh in this comment. Y’all were getting on my last nerve.
She was a bitch. And the cancer story, righhtttt like I believe that. Even if it is true, don’t share your misery with the company who didn’t choose to spend it with you. Diana is a cancer having bitch and she can eat my dick tooElan was the one who said she had a face mask and was breathing heavily, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility she was ill. I did note the sexism. How would a man have handled the ‘eat my dick’ note? Would there even have been a note if Diane was a grown man? What if Diane wasn’t traveling alone? Would she have gotten a vulgar note if she had a man by her side. As a woman, I already know these answers.
Twinky
Which you know from whom?
Oh, yeah, the person who wants to be the #bravehero.
Yep, never ever question the man…
Karina Wright (#170)
Oh no, your tone is delightful and completely appropriate. I really mean that. If you’re an atheist, you’d fit in well around here.
I never understood the whole “eat my dick” insult. You really don’t want the other person to take you up on it. “Eat A dick,” on the other hand, gives you some leeway.
I’m sorry about Diane – it’s truly a tragedy that she has cancer. But to act in a way that is just unacceptable and to be rude and obnoxious to the other people in the same situation – which if you read the whole series of tweets then you will see she flat out said she didn’t care how other people were feeling – then I agree with Élan. The Eat My Dick comment was perhaps a bit childish – but so was her initial reply. She could’ve just accepted the wine and kept her own mouth shut perhaps accepting the subtle correction with humility- which she did not.
I am pro Élan in this one – cancer or not – no one has the right to belittle and annoy others especially in situations like this!
You mean accept the wine, the vodka and the note that told her to shut up from a complete stranger? That’s not correcting, that’s antagonizing. I’m having trouble imagining that anyone who advocates such would do as they say. It’s much easier to pontificate about what your actions would be when you’re not actually in that situation. Much harder in practice.
So, cancer means you act like a bitch to everyone. FFFFFFFF I’m going HAM when I get a terminal disease. Anyways, this story sounds highly suspect. Lung cancer folks usually need special accommodations to fly. I don’t believe your story OP. Good try.Augsplace (#176)
Nobody’s obligated to knuckle under to the bullying of strangers. That’s a terrible expectation to promote. And why the fuck is it Diane’s job to react with humility but it’s okay for this Elan guy to decide she needs comeuppance and he should be the one to deliver it?
I agree with Augsplace. Diane was rude and selfish during this whole scenario. Cancer or not, it is not acceptable to be that selfish and expect people to put up with that kind of behaviour. Every single person has a reason to want to get home for the holidays. And if she was acting like this due to her cancer, than she should of not be left to fly on an airplane by herself. Someone in her family or a caregiver should of been with her. Yes, buying an extra ticket is expensive but obviously she can not be left by herself.
On the other side, Elan really should of not said Eat My Dick. There were more tactful ways to say hey Diane, not cool. You are embarrassing yourself because of your behaviour. However, her reaction to his comment was just as childish as Elan. If I was her family, I would be by this completely embarrassed by this whole situation and make arrangements so she would not be left by herself.
@HNIC (#178)
1) Don’t call women bitches.
2) Learn to read.
3) Grow some empathy.
That man was a classless tacky idiot but look at his appearance. Shower much?
I don’t buy it. Not the Cancer & not that you spoke to her cousin. Stage 4 small cell Lung Cancer, interesting she was EVEN ABLE to fly with a year left of life and no Oxygen. Sure. She acted like an ass & someone called her out. It’s not bullying it’s KARMA. She was the bully.
PS: Eat my dickELAN RULES
Wow, @me, learn to read. Learn what Karma actually is. Oh and bullying while you’re at it.
What a sad, sad culture we live in today where people are so quick to jump on a bandwagon of someone who did something so pointless and mundane. Even taken as completely fictional, which I strongly believe it is, it’s barely even funny. He sent a glass of wine to someone who complained a bit too loudly and told her to eat my dick…?
I’m not seeing the outstanding originality there at all. I shouldn’t be surprised. Internet Trolls aren’t known for their creativity or intelligence and they are always looking for someone to lead them.
It’s a shame she has cancer but that does not give her an excuse to be continually disruptive to others on a plane or to physically assault someone.
People did try to be kind to her and she treated them like garbage, and Elan was being generous for not having her arrested for assault..
An asshole with stage 4 cancer is still an asshole.
Give me a break. There were probably other sick people on the flight traveling flying to visit family thin it might be their last or one of their last thanksgivings and they weren’t rude to others. Also might want to be a bit more optimistic. From experience docs always have the tendency to tell you the shortest amount of time you have to live, saying you have only a couple months, days, weeks, etc ….and in a lot of cases you live years and years longer. Try and have a better attitude. Look on the bright side, you are lucky enough to have a family wanting to specd thanksgiving with you. You have enough money to fly home to be with your loved ones. Also being nice to others around and being patient and understanding will only help you body and lower your stress level and your overall health. No need for stress if you have such bad cancer. Stay calm, what’s gonna happen is gonna happen. Just try and enjoy the ride and be a nice considerate human. That’s just my humble opinion…perhaps I have no idea 😉
She physically assaulted a man, who had continually harassed her on a plane, and then waited for her at the gate and approached her, again, after she repeatedly told him to leave her alone.
And, here we are again with the hyperbole. Continually…? From the tweet timeline, she complained for several moments while stuck at the gate. Once the plane started to move, she stopped. Not another word from her, based on the account, the rest of the flight.
How do you know she was disruptive to others? We only have one person’s account. She was rude to one flight attendant with one sentence. She was probably annoying to others, but disruptive?
Seriously, you all are making this woman out to be some lunatic who was cursing and throwing things on the plane. She was a passenger simply disgruntled and complaining a bit too loudly. Hardly, the worst behavior I’ve ever seen. In fact, it’s not the worst behavior I’ve seen this week.
A lot of people are asking whether Elan’s inviting Diane to “eat [his] dick” constitutes sexual harassment, and if not, why not. I am an attorney by trade, and so when I see or hear the words “sexual harassment,” I naturally construe them in the legal sense. In the legal sense, sexual harassment can take place only in the workplace, and must be committed by either (a) a person in a position of power and authority over the victim, or (b) a co-worker whose harassment of the victim either is or reasonably should be known to management and regarding which management has failed to intercede without just cause. The legal concept of sexual harassment is that of sexually charged words or behavior used as a tool to manipulate, threaten, or coerce an employee, usually a subordinate, into performing sexual favors in exchange for leniency, special treatment, promotions, raises, or merely continued employment. Obviously, none of this applies to the Elan-Diane debacle.
However, one might still be tempted to describe Elan’s “eat my dick” comment as sexual harassment in a non-legal sense. Clearly, this issue is one of pure semantics, and without precise criteria of what constitutes or doesn’t constitute non-legal sexual harassment, it is pointless to argue about it. But, a few salient points to consider:
1. Elan did not invite Diane to perform oral sex on him, as many have suggested, but rather to consume (and presumably digest) his penis. One assumes he did not mean this literally. Therefore, he may just as well have said “Eat my foot!” so far as literal meaning is concerned. Clearly, his sole aim was to be crude and offensive, probably in order to tantalize his Twitter followers, and it just so happens he used sexually explicit language to accomplish this goal. It seems highly unlikely, given the context, that Elan was attempting to sexually degrade Diane rather than simply humiliate her by any means possible. It is unfortunate, perhaps, that his inflammatory remark too the form of a sexually suggestive one, but all evidence suggests he did not consciously select the words he did for any inherently sexual reason.
2. I’ve heard men say the same thing (or even “Blow me!”) to other men. Generally they do not mean this as a sincere invitation, and would be quite upset if it were taken as such. Again, they are here speaking figuratively, expressing the mere equivalent of, “Not a chance in hell,” “You’ve got to be kidding me,” “Give me a break,” “Dream on,” or “Go scrrew yourself” (okay, this last isn’t really intended literally, either). How many of the women in this forum would be crying “Sexual harassment!” if Diane had been, instead, Dan or David?
Wait, so, hang on a minute.
Having cancer is an excuse to act like a shitbird now?
Jennifer D. wrote:
Jennifer,
Call me old-fashioned but I don’t see any cop arresting a woman who reacted to a cad’s inappropriate sexual advance by slapping his face. That’s what the “eat my dick” comment was … an inappropriate sexual advance.
Whether this happened in a bar or an airplane, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a rude comment from a man to woman resulting in a drink thrown in the man’s face or the man’s face getting slapped. And I would be surprised to see the cops do more than give both parties a stern lecture about behaving better when in public with no arrests happening.
Steve
Kerry (#189)
Don’t you know? When a woman is rude for even a brief amount of time, it’s the worst thing ever and she needs to be taken down by any means possible or the world will end.
SJC (#190)
What a fucking idiotic argument. The reason we don’t see other things besides penises substituted into that phrase is because the sexual component is integral to the insult. No one uses it based on the literal meaning. And the whole rest of your excuse for what Elan did (bringing up his sincerity or whether this counts in a legal sense or how much deniability you can cram into the account if you look at it through the wrong end of a telescope) is a bunch of irrelevant, question-begging bullshit, too.
First, it’s a blog, not a forum. Second, I already answered this. Third, where the fuck does a newcomer like yourself get off even asking? Fourth, why only ask what women would say? Fifth, maybe you should ask yourself if you would be minimizing this whole thing if it was an Ellen going after a Dan.
OT, but the idea of sending someone a drink to tell them to calm down is also hideously insensitive.
I can’t drink alcohol, because it interferes with meds I need to function. Period. No alcohol for Caitie.
Also, there are alcoholics, teetotallers for other reasons, not to mention all sorts of religions have rules about drinking. It’s a really self-centred thing to say “I’m sorry” in a non-bar situation by sending a drink.
Just a thought.
Wo. That’s the most thoroughly missed point I’ve ever seen missed.
Still…it’s true. If Elan had been bullying Dan instead of Diane, I wouldn’t call it sexual harassment. Yes, that’s correct.
Btw I’m drawing a line through the worst over-the-top comments as opposed to deleting them, because they’re part of the story. (Which is not to say I won’t delete worse ones. There’s just no telling what I’ll do.)
It’s not bullying. Stop watering down bullying, which is severe, ongoing harassment.
No. You are wrong. It’s an act, therefore it can be one time or many
IF this situation is true (big IF) it once again goes to show that we really have to be careful about believing what we read on social media sites and even on the News sites. Most of the time there is more than one side. It seems like people read things and get righteously indignant, post the articles to their FB accounts with angry comments and shake their heads in disgust only to find out later that we only heard part of the story. Case in point: the recent story about the waitress who supposedly did not get a tip but got a message about her being gay on the receipt instead. Later it came out that the waitress lied about the incident. We really need to reserve our indignation and outrage until we know ALL the facts. We have lost the art of giving people the benefit of the doubt. That said, this whole situation could be fake. I kind of hope so. I don’t want to believe that Diane will end her life with this as part of it.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/11/bullying-at-35-thousand-feet/#comment-1002118
I hope you learned your lesson! LOL
this whole thing is a fake. So is this letter from her “cousin”
Wow even if you’re dying of cancer you don’t get a pass. You know what I say to that: EAT MY DICK.*
*too bad I don’t have one. Women complaining loudly is apparently the end of the damn world. If you are a woman shut the f up and suck it, I got it. Too bad I’m a 50 something bitch that won’t, ELAN. (which is a really ironic name)
so i wasn’t going to get sucked in and comment, especially since A. Noyd and screechymonkey said most everything i was already thinking, and so well, but then i read augsplace, and the hypocrisy just wouldn’t let me go.
“I am pro Élan in this one – cancer or not – no one has the right to belittle and annoy others especially in situations like this!”
i agree, no one has the right to annoy and belittle others. except, oh wait, isn’t that EXACTLY what elan claims he was doing? this is a zero-sum game, people! it’s really impossible to hold this belief and still be “pro-elan.” (of course, one also can’t be “pro-diane”, but she isn’t the one who made it public and asked for our participation and support.)
Ophelia (#196)
I can see the harm of “eat my dick” being lower in magnitude against a man. After all, there’s less of a culture of punitive sexual violence that gets carried out against men (outside of prison, anyway) and less acceptance of the same. But I don’t think it’s not sexual harassment. The differences in context should be recognized, but I absolutely want men to have protection against others involving them in talk of dick “eating” and the like against their will.
Lung cancer metastasizes to the brain 40-50% of the time. If Diane indeed had stage IV lung cancer, perhaps this may explain her behavior (or maybe not). Also, people with advanced lung cancer often do not need oxygen or need to be in a wheelchair. Regardless of whether Diane had terminal cancer or not, Elan crossed the line into bullying with the last sentence in the note he included with the wine. He then went even further with the “Eat” stuff. He was in the right in the beginning, but clearly became the one in the wrong as this scenario unfolded.
If it had been Ellen going after Dan, then the story would have been “Can you believe this crazy bitch told me to STFU when I was rightfully complaining about the shitty treatment we were getting?” and he still would have told her to calm down and eat his dick and people would still be supporting him for doing so.
Elan thinks he’s Elan, but really he’s Nale.
dexitroboper@208: Yes, you can tell by the lack of puns!
Going on the ick-inducing premise that this was a real incident and not a publicity stunt:
Telling a woman to eat his dick and to (essentially) STFU? Continuing to engage, continuing to provoke for his own amusement and celebrity points? Ugh. Not funny, not entertaining.
As a social media celebrity, Elan Gale is in a position of power and is able to command a mob hatred against anyone that he chooses. That means he doesn’t need to expend a lot of effort to harrass or bully someone. All he has to do is make a few snide comments and things can escalate very quickly. If the story is real (big if from the looks of it), this poor woman is the subject of A LOT of nasty attention today. All of the “but…but…she totes deserved it!” comments are sickening.
So easy to say that she was sick and that he was cruel. ACT LIKE AN A$$ and people will treat you that way. While I don’t wish ill will on her she got what she deserved. If she would have slapped me I would have dropped her in the airport. Just because your ill doesn’t give you warrant to treat others poorly. At no point did she say she share her problem, she just acted like the world owed her something, guess what, with or without cancer no one owes you anything. MORE PEOPLE SHOULD STAND UP LIKE THIS MAN DID AND MAYBE PEOPLE LIKE DIANNE WILL THINK BEFORE THEY SPEAK!
I’ll take your advice! ITALIA, YOU’RE AN ASSHOLE.
Italia (#211)
So we’re justified in treating Elan like an ass? Or are you yet another person with double standards? (I mean, your standards are shitty in general, but they could at least be consistent.)
So cute how people try to posture as if they’re saints while condoning mistreatment and harassment at the hands of a stranger… in retaliation for alleged mistreatment of a stranger (which seemed rather benign, even from the biased perspective of Elan himself.)
Seriously.
Italia, think harder about this. All she is reported to have done is complain about a delayed flight. Yes, when the flight attendant tried to be sympathetic by saying he wanted to get home too, she rudely said, “this isn’t about you.” BUT THAT’S IT. That’s the worst thing Elan Gale reported of her. No, I beg your pardon, that is nowhere near so awful that it cries out for a smug self-admiring dude to get in her face about it. No.where.near.
Very nicely said, Brianne.
These people are BOTH jerks. She was acting entitled & no, sorry, just because one is ill, doesn’t give them the right to entitlement or to act like a jackass to others. The fellow responding is an ass because he could have tried to bring *some* understanding to the situation but degrades it down to the common vulgar use of “eat my dick”. Congratulations to both of them, they’ve made my Assholes of the Year list.
Sister D @216:
“no, sorry, just because one is ill, doesn’t give them the right to entitlement or to act like a jackass to others”
Who are you apologizing to, and for what?
(This post brought to you by the Committee for the Prevention of Abuse of the Word ‘Sorry’.)
P.S. Don’t think those “Sorry not sorry” people are off the hook, either.
I’m gonna bet none of you who are against this work in customer service. I for one wish more people would stand up for us who do deal with people like this everyday, who think it’s all about them. People who take their bad day out on you, when you can’t do anything to change the matter.
#teamelanVery sad to hear about how she has cancer, but that gives her no right to be a bitch about things. How is a flight being delayed have anything to do with the attendant, pilot, or any single person for that matter who she was being extremely rude to. She handled the situation horribly. No matter the situation, it doesn’t give you the right to act how she did.Jeez, people. It’s fun to have all these new visitors and all, but do try to read what I actually wrote. I nowhere said that Diane should get a “free pass”; I nowhere said she’s entitled to be rude or make everything all about her. She’s not; no one is. That still doesn’t mean that Random Dude Seven Rows Back gets to punish her. Her being rude doesn’t make bullying her ok.
You would absolutely lose that bet. I work face-to-face customer service at an 18,000 seat sports and entertainment venue where customers vent their frustrations about everything from the team’s lousy power play to the lead singer of a band forgetting lyrics to one of his songs. At the end of the day, taking abuse is not part of the job but listening to customers (even the obnoxious ones) complain about less-than-ideal conditions is. Which raises an interesting point that’s been lost in the Elan vs Diane debate; the airline deserves some blame here for letting things get out of hand. Even if the flight attendants thought Elan was acting on their behalf, they’re obligated to maintain a consistent level of service for all their passengers and should have told him to sit down and cool it.
jony @219
And yet, for a given situation he has the right to act how he did? Do you see how this is a double standard?
To the next poster who ‘s argument is that cancer does not excuse Diane’s behavior,
The alleged letter was posted by her cousin, who was
trying to give the other side to this story. It’s not an excuse
for her behavior, just an explanation. According to Elan’s
own post, her obnoxiousness ended when the plane took off.
That’s when he sent his 1st note that ends passive aggressively.
He is not the elected defender of the flight staff, so any reaction he got
after that & his other notes was due to his own instigation.
If she had picked a fight with him I would understand so much defense of his
actions but this had nothing to do with him.
If she went to court and showed the judge a note reading “eat my dick” and then
stated she found the same man waiting for her when she got out of the plane, she might
have easily been acquitted for smacking him. Rude people on planes is nothing new, Twitter is.
I just don’t get how people can’t understand how criticisizing an obnoxious, attention hungry tweeter isn’t the same as defending an obnoxious airline passenger.
Ok I get it she has cancer but here is the thing. When I have dealt with losing family members left right and center to various types of cancer (one of them to a cancer that only 16 people in the world had had before she got it and she died from it, all of them died from it. A year to the day later a cure is found people suffer for a few months and that is it.). Cancer is not a reason to be a bitch end of statement. I have seen people fight, I was in school with a girl who was told she wasn’t going to make it and today shes alive and well we got behind her drive to fight it and she won. I know others who didn’t give up and didn’t let anything keep them down but they didn’t have to be an asshole to others around them just because they had cancer. Cancer isn’t an excuse to act the way she did.
throwaway (#215)
I never really noticed before this thread just how seldom FtB regulars set themselves up as saints like that. Like, I don’t think we avoid arrogance or anything so improbable. But even in casual comments most of us seem to have a much better sense of self-awareness and speak as if we expect ourselves to live up to our own moralizing.
Sara (#218)
Do you really think Elan was standing up for the flight attendants? And even if you can convince yourself of that, do you really think he was right to go about it in the bullying, harassing way he did when he had so many options that didn’t involve harassment or bullying?
mindy (#224)
1) Don’t call women bitches.
2) No one is saying cancer is a reason to be a jerk.
3) Next time, consider ending your statement after you say “end of statement.” It sounds less silly that way.
@joe
No double standard whatsoever. One initiated a problem and one was in response.
Someone has to let these people know when they are completely out of line. Of course Elan went way overboard with it, but that is another story.
Ophelia @220:
You’re quite the optimist. Half these idiots seem to think that you’re Diane! (The other half just think that you’re advocating for cancer patients being allowed to rape and murder children.)
NO.
NO.
NO: A TERMINAL ILLNESS DOES NOT TRANSFER UPON DIANE THE RIGHT TO THROW EVERY ABUSIVE TANTRUM SHE DEIGNS TO SUFFER UPON UNWITTING VICTIMS IN HER PERIPHERY FOR ANY REAL OR IMAGINE TRANSGRESSION THAT SHE IRRATIONALLY BLAMES SAID PEOPLE OR PERSONS FOR UNTIL HER FINAL BREATH IS EXHALED. WE ARE ALL TERMINAL LADY. IF YOU OUTLIVE ANYONE WHO YOU ABUSE IN THE MEANTIME ARE YOU PLANNING TO APOLOGIZE TO THEIR SURVIVING KIN? NO LADY. YOU ARE STUPID. THE END.
jony@228:
No, it’s really not. It’s the same story.
Or, to put it another way — it’s the story that the post you’re commenting on is about.
jony (#228)
Except it wasn’t Elan’s problem. He butted in an initiated a new problem. So there is a double standard.
Says who? And how would that be any sort of justification for the way Elan chose to do so?
No it’s not. It’s the entire fucking point of the OP.
The logic of people who have commented on this is amusing.
Quality website
Since when is an illness or bad circumstance a valid reason to be rude to anyone, especially those that are simply providing a service? Who’s to say that this past Thanksgiving wouldn’t be the last for the pilot, flight attendant or the person sitting next to her. It’s sad that Diane is having to deal with imminent death, but it’s also sad that we as human beings think that gives her the right to act the way she did. Do I think Elan went a bit far? Yes, but we weren’t there. We don’t know the severity of the “grumpiness” and tbh… I’m happy someone stood up for the poor fight attendants that were also away from their families on Thanksgiving day. If we as humans stopped being so ridiculously bitter we might actually find time to enjoy whatever time we have left on this crazy place we call earth.
screechymonkey (#231)
Jinx!
We have our difference of opinions then. My mind is made knowing the information that is available.
I have 0 sympathy for Diana from the way she acted, I think she completely deserved to be called out for it, and Elan was a complete **** about it.
Kim Randall (#234)
Since when is anyone saying it is? Jesus, but you people are relentless in your determination to miss the point.
Making sure not to argue with strawmen would free up more of that time to enjoy.
A. Noyd I hate to tell you this but there are women, there are females and then there are Bitches. I can end things where and when I like to the point is she shouldn’t act like a bitch and then not expect what she gets in return.Oh and telling someone where and when they should and shouldn’t end thins means your nothing more than an ass hat whos convinced that he (or she) knows the makes of the world. You can take you number in the kiss my ass line for all I care.@jony
Indeed, Diane was responding to the flight delays and Elan initiated a confrontation after the issue had been resolved. Or, probably more accurately, both reacted inappropriately (Elan more so than Diane) to a situation.
Does it really need to be someone completely uninvolved in the situation, though? And what do you mean, it’s another story? The OP is about Elan’s sexual harassment.
jony @ 228
I’m sure Diane felt that the airline was out of line for delaying a flight on an important day to her. So she let them know.
Technically, she was right: as a customer it wasn’t about the flight attendant, who according to the story sounded dismissive of her rather than compassionate.
I used to handle complaints over the phone and one of the things I learned was that each customer was the most important customer in the world and the center of my universe. If they swore at me personally or acted out aggressively, I would apologize to them and ask if there was anything they wanted me to do. Even when I felt they were exaggerating the situation or having unrealistic standards, I knew that dismissing the frustration they feel by telling them that they’re not so special and that “these things happen” was basically a cue for a “Let me speak to your supervisor.” routine.
mindy (238)
No, there are women and then there are sexist labels that people like you try to use to shame women for not acting the way patriarchy demands of our gender.
Yes, congratulations, you can. And I can point out how silly it sounds.
Actually, she should be able to expect no one treat her as Elan did. Nothing she did excuses his harassment and bullying. It’s wrong independent of her actions.
*facepalm* Given your combativeness over an extremely minor jibe, I can only imagine the (hypocritical) tantrum you’d have thrown if you’d faced the treatment Elan gave Diane.
True. So the bad circumstance of being delayed and hearing another passenger get mad about it isn’t a valid reason to be rude and tell them to eat your dick, right?
Most airlines have a set of guidelines for flight attendants to deal with “unruly” passengers.
If the flight attendants did not see fit to initiate these procedures, then no passenger should initiate them.
Those commenters who see Dianne as a villain and Elan as a hero seem to be forgetting that flight attendants are NOT merely restaurant serving staff.
They are highly trained in emergency procedures of all kinds and they work as a team.
Elan is the more likely candidate for being duct-taped to his seat.
carlie
THIS.
Can you all stop complaining, you are acting like little girls about this. Eat my dickThese are other things Elan has done to (mostly) women just this past year.
Live tweeted a blind date without informing the date- mocking her the entire time until she was told by a mutual friend what he was tweeting. When she asked him to stop posting her texts, because she had already started getting phone calls from strangers about it, he released her full name to tens of thousands of people and continued to harass her.
Was upset that his neighbors argued about the male partners gambling addiction so he left a receipt from a casino on their door that made it look like he had blown 2 grand.
Sent a woman flowers and signed them “Thanks for last night” with an ex boyfriend’s name the male partner was already suspicious of.
Left a garbage bag full of old sushi at the neighbor’s door when he knew they would not be home for several days.
The “Eat a dick” incident.
This is your hero.
@Maggie (#246)
Wow, thanks for the details. Too bad the people patting Elan on the back aren’t reading the thread. Not that I expect they’d change their opinions of him, but I do wonder what justifications they’d construct without a cranky cancer victim to scapegoat.
If you have never had a meltdown in public, congrats, you’re a better person than I am. When someone is freaking out in public you have roughly 3 choices. 1) ignore. Most of us do this and that’s okay. 2) try to mitigate. I think most enlightened & compassionate people know how to do this. There are so many ways. 3) antagonize. Poke fun at them. Get a ‘rise’ out of them for entertainment sake ‘hey, this will be great on my Twitter feed!’. That’s a bully’s thought process by the way.
Elan chose #3. He made it public and I hope he’s reading some of the things people have to say about his character as it is today. It’s not very flattering. But he’s young and we all make mistakes…
I asked before to the posters who backed Elan’s behavior, what if Diane was your mom, or your aunt, or your grandmother or wife? Would you tolerate an Elan? Diane is blood to someone out there, just like you are to yours. If it’s not okay to bully or harass your people, it’s not okay for Elan either. Cruelty is what it is no matter how hipster you deem yourself or how uncool your pants are.
‘Love one another.’ -George Harrison
If the final letter is true than I wish “Diane” strength and a medical miracle. Although I am very skeptical. In today’s society everyone wants the final word and will say anything to get it. I have read too many of these sob stories that later are proven false. Somebody using cancer to try and shut someone up is not out of the norm. Sad isn’t it? Either way there was no excuse for her behavior. Everyone is miserable when a prolonged stay at the airport is involved. And this country had gotten too uptight on bullying. It’s nothing new. I was bullied heavily as a child and am thankful for it. The character and resilience I gained from that experience has given me skills I needed to be successful as an adult. I’m not saying that bullying is not wrong, I am just saying that it is used as an excuse as opposed to having personal accountability. And personal accountability is lacking in almost every facet of today’s society. I digress, Elan’s letter is not bullying in any sense of the word, rude and ignorant yes but bullying no. And nothing about it was sexist, some people are really reaching on that.
This just needs to be posted again, for emphasis:
So, just to summarize, according to “Team Elan” (barf):
Diane has cancer –> Having cancer and being distressed at the possibility of missing your last Thanksgiving with your family is not a justification for acting like an asshole.
Elan was on a flight that was delayed and a fellow passenger was rude and annoying –> Being annoyed by a fellow passenger’s rudeness is TOTALLY a justification for acting like an asshole.
In fact, not only was Elan justified, it was his moral obligation to be an asshole to her, because she was an asshole, and everyone knows how effective it is to hit people in order to demonstrate how hitting people is wrong.
Did I miss anything?
Yep, @SallyStrange. You got it all.
And as someone who doesn’t believe the report that Diane does not have cancer, I still Elan acted extremely inappropriately and without any semblance of class.
You know what would be great? If somebody pointed out that cancer isn’t an excuse for bad behavior. That would help this discussion
Sublimity (#249)
WTF? An excuse for what? How about let’s stop demanding “personal accountability” of victims for harm done to them by others and place it instead entirely at the feet of the harm-doers: the motherfucking bullies. How are the bullies ever supposed to learn better with people like you letting them off?
@Sublimity- 249 and everyone else who thinks Elan was right.
You took the word of a stranger on the internet and believed it because he entertained you.
You are writing as if you have all the facts when you have zero facts and the only story you have is from a man who gets a thrill out of humiliating people and lying for your entertainment.
At the very least, you could have decided to withhold judgement on Dianne until you heard from ANY one else who can verify Elan’s story. A full plane on Thanksgiving and not one Flight Attendant, not another passenger, not Dianne has come forward to say they were there. US Air won’t even comment on it even though the story is world wide with literally millions of people talking about it.
Stop believing shit people post on the internet with no verification. Don’t believe Elan. Don’t believe the cousin. Don’t believe waitresses who get nasty messages and no tips.
Use your critical thinking skills!
Sublimity @ 249
The “eat dick” thing is meant to be degrading due to the implication that being a person who “eats” dick is not a man (or at least not “masculine”). That is what causes those of us who recognize that etymological nuance to say that it’s sexist. There’s also the puritanical history of oral sex being dirty, only fitting for a slut, not a proper lady. So there’s also slut-shaming in that that’s all the insulter implies the insulted person is good for. I think you’re not engaging your thinking muscles as hard as you need to.
Ophelia Benson, the author of this litte mental dribble, has no earthly clue what “bullying” means. Basically, this entire episode was a lesson in “First World ‘Problems'”. Everyone get a grip on their inner 5-year-old, sack up, and carry on.
@A. Noyd. I’m not letting bullies off the hook at all. I’m just saying people need to take a step back and and take a look at who they are as a person. To me an adult cannot be bullied. Period. You are not helpless you are not without a voice and you have the means and capabilities to avoid and/or exit a situation. AT THE VERY LEAST you can ignore the person, unless they put their hands on you, which again as an adult you have the ability to take the proper actions. A. Noyd, your attitude is why we are devolving as a society.
@Maggie please enlighten me as to when I said I agree with Elan I’m pretty sure I said his actions were rude and ignorant. You may want to reassess your reading comprehension before calling someone out.
Let’s see… we’ve got insulting of intelligence, implications of ignorance, an appeal to worse problems, age-ism, and finally ‘man up’.
Did anyone else get a Harasser Apologist bingo with that post?
If this really happened, there would be other verification of it. The flight attendant would be questioned by the airline for his role in the matter, because helping to send a nasty note to someone on a flight is unquestionably against procedure. Also, there would have been other people on the flight who may have noticed something or, after they landed and this went viral, they realized in retrospect what was going on. It’s inconceivable someone involved in or nearby when this happened wouldn’t have come forward by now just to get some attention from it.
Finally, if she really slapped him, do you think it would have just been shrugged off? In this day and age, with the security measures we now deal with, all this went down without a single other person noticing or reporting it?
It’s all a lie, and if I was a betting man, I’d bet Elan added the cancer note, too. He already planted the seeds of it with the comment about the medical mask.
Anyone got any Raid®? Got a bit of an infestation going here.
@throwaway, thank you for proving my point about reaching. Between my days in the military and sports, I’ve probably heard a male tell another male to “eat a dick” over a thousand times. It’s demeaning but in no way restricted to woman, therefore not sexist. In fact if I was like you and looking for a reason to be mad, then I could claim that the fact you automatically assumed that could only be degrading to woman is sexist. Much like many outspoken figures trying to get publicity, you a making a mountain out of an anthill.
Slocomb #259, the possibility that the whole story is a hoax from Elan purely for the entertainment of himself via validation from his tweeps has been noted dozens of times.
1. If Elan made this all up just to stir drama because he was bored? He’s still an arsehole.
2. If (1) is true, then that he knew making up a story of his retributive bullying a woman for being upset in a fraught situation would be mostly approved by his tweeps and many others around the nets? Means he’s a shameless arsehole who’s proud of shit-stirring others into arseholery.
There is no way to look at this series of tweets, fact or fiction, where Elan as the author of those tweets comes off as anything less than a gigantic arsehole.
Sublimity @ 261
It’s not also just sexist, it’s also bigoted.
I did no such thing, as my parenthetical was dealing with “masculinity”. You are forgiven for not being familiar with my shorthand, you don’t seem like the type to hang out on social justice websites often.
So let me clear things up then: “eat dick” is a derogatory way of reducing someone to a subservient sexual role. It derives it’s insulting power from the emasculation of a man when it is used against them, and the reduction of a woman to a sex object unworthy of reciprocated pleasure. It is therefore sexist.
Addendum to my 263 final sentence: and bigoted.
OK it’s getting late. Though I really want to hear this squeaker make excuses for gendered derogatory statements that imply the insulted person to either a woman or a gay man, I’ve got to jet.
Goodnight regulars and #teamasshole!
Ophelia @220:
Ophelia @22:
Maybe people interpreted that as a “free pass?”
Sublimity (#257)
The astonishing thing is you don’t see this as contradictory. People don’t always have power. Pretending they do is some magical fucking thinking. I do not have the time to tear your assertion apart in more detail tonight, but maybe some others will go through the flaws in your logic. Actually, why don’t you us all the time and go read the last few years worth of archives for this blog. There is a lot that deals with bullying and relative power and sexism and feminism.
Also, maybe you can take a stab at giving an explicit answer to what people use being the victim of bullying as an “excuse” for, like I asked in #253. See if you can do it without defining the victim’s supposed personal responsibilities in a passive voice.
(#261)
The banality of the phrase is proof of precisely nothing other than a lot of people are casually sexist. And sexism is not defined by it being targeted directly at women.
If I were dying and really wanted to be someplace with my family for a certain day, I think I would be smart enough to not wait until the last flight out to go.
One last thing for the road:
Lauren @ 265: Here’s the statement which Ophelia was responding to (even though you should know it, I’m doing it in case you forgot or have selective memory or another issue with honesty):
Lauren @ 20:
Oh, look! Context that makes it look less like Ophelia arguing for a free pass, but more for mitigating factors for her behavior!
How do you know Diane booked the last flight? Maybe she didn’t. Maybe she had a prior flight cancelled or she got bumped and that’s why she was so annoyed at the airline. Maybe other flights were full. Maybe she couldn’t afford them.
Think, people. Think.
OK, my apologies to Lauren if that last post came out a bit harsh. I may have misinterpreted your “Maybe…” as an implication that Ophelia is at fault for the recurring theme, rather than the other likely meaning that it was a misinterpretation of something which, in context, meant nothing of the sort.
@throwaway, I appreciate the subtle “social justice website” jab, stay classy and judgmental. (Hypocrite much?)
I’ll agree to disagree on this issue, you have good points l, just tend to look at the bigger picture. Language evolves over time and often the origin no longer is tied to its current usage. Gay for example, original definition is joyous. Bimbo, originated from the Italian Bambino, meaning little boy. Go up to an Italian family and call their son a bimbo, let me know how that works for you. Or how about a more relevant one, Bully. A bully was originally your darling or sweetheart. That one took a drastic change.
You want to preach human rights, well unfortunately a Elan has the right to say what he pleases an both you and I don’t have to agree with it.
throwaway @268
Oh, look! Context that makes it look less like Ophelia arguing for a free pass, but more for mitigating factors for her behavior!
I think they both mean an excuse for a bad act.
throwaway @ 270, your original interpretation was correct.
Sorry, poor phrasing on my part then. Ophelia wasn’t arguing for the free pass on the behavior itself, she was arguing against your determination that she had always been an asshole. I can see how Ophelia’s #22 could be misinterpreted as arguing for a free pass, but I’m not sure where the free pass meme is coming from. A good guess on your part.
His will be my last post on this joke of a thread.
This was my first time on this site, I posted my opinion, did not mention or reference anyone else in my original comment. I stated how I disagreed with the actions of both parties and explained why I hold the opinions I do. And yet as you hypocrites sit here and argue against bullying, I was attacked by over a half dozen people on this thread. People telling me why my opinions are wrong since I don’t agree with them, keep running on the hamster wheel people. You are making a massive contribution to society.
Suzanne Hemond back at #54:
I was thinking a lot of the same things when I read the note from the “family member.” If “Diane” is THAT SICK, why is SHE the one traveling? I wasn’t even thinking about the logistics and details of someone that sick traveling– needing supplemental oxygen– just the fact that someone THAT SICK probably should not be the one being subjected the the rigors of travel. I would bet that someone that terminally ill would be pretty high on the priority list of an airline, and someone that sick is going to know that getting angry at people who have no control over flight plans is just going to exacerbate her condition…
Now that “Diane” has “been outed” as someone with cancer, I call BS on the ENTIRE story.
Here’s the thing I don’t get about this. Maybe Elan overreacted. Maybe Elan shouldn’t have said “eat my dick.” Maybe Elan shouldn’t have posted it all to the internet. But doesn’t anybody think that Diane was an asshole first? I didn’t think male, female, I thought asshole. Narcissist. Asshole. (I would say “douchebag” but I really don’t understand how an implement exclusively used by women got to be a trendy gendered insult primarily directed at males.) All of this focused on whether Elan’s reaction was appropriate, an escalation, sexist, patriarchal, privileged….it all seems to be excusing someone who made the flight all about her. Not about the hundred odd people who were all experiencing the flight delays. Not about the flight attendants who have to deal with a bunch of cranky people. Not about their fellow travelers who don’t want to have to listen to someone else’s life story. A bunch of people want Elan to have handled the situation differently. I want Diane to have not provoked the situation in the first place. Because even if it’s exaggerated, it’s clear that she did most or all of the things that were contemporaneously tweeted. And if so, I laugh at Elan, but I loathe Diane. She’s a mean person. People just like her of both genders have ruined more of my flights than I can count. If I’m supposed to forgive someone and show compassion, it’s to the person who reacted in an over-the-top yet humorous way designed to provoke a positive behavior change, not the person who instigated it all in the first place, was rude to service workers and assaulted someone.
Sublimity@275:
You were attacked? Oh my goodness, that sounds horrible. How did these people attack you?
Oh my God. They told you that your opinions were… oh, I can hardly type the word…. wrong? What do they think this is, a place for discussion?
Be sure to stick the flounce.
Sublimity (#271)
You’re not looking at the bigger picture; you’re looking at a funhouse mirror and acting like nothing you see is distorted.
(#275)
Apparently your idea of “personal accountability” is whining about how awful everyone else is when your unevidenced, unreasoned opinion gets tossed in the trash. I gotta say, I’m not impressed.
There’s nothing sexist about telling someone to “eat my dick.” Had Diane been Dennis, I still would have said the same thing. Telling somebody off isn’t being a bully. You’re falling back on your own form of sexism here in that a woman can be as rude and obnoxious as she wants, but if a man calls her on it, then, oh my god, the horror, the horror! Personally, I think “eat a big bag of dicks” would have been more appropriate.
Peebee (#277)
No, absolutely nobody else in this thread thinks that about Diane. *eyeroll*
Peebee@277
Did you bother to read any of the thread before you posted? Almost every single person who’s posted has noted that Diane behaved badly.
Diane was self-absorbed and a little rude for a few minutes. There’s no reason to believe that she was getting any pleasure out of her behavior, and it seems pretty clear that she lost control and, yes, behaved badly.
Elan was not personally provoked in any way, but chose, in a deliberate and premeditated fashion, to spend the next hour or more targeting a person who was no longer a problem to anyone, and who could not escape him, was no longer a problem, and deliberately set out to make her miserable. Whether he was being a self-appointed social vigilante, or just “doing it for the lulz” and attention, he derived personal pleasure from causing misery to another human being.
How you conclude that she’s the worse person — even ignoring the possibility that she does indeed have terminal cancer — is beyond me.
Can somebody please detail again the most horrible crimes of Diane?
From what I see, she complained loudly and very upset. No, not nice, not your best behaviour.
And she snapped at a flight attendant. Not OK either, but on an “asshole scale” behaviour 1 ranks at 2 while the second one at a 5 at max.
Elan scores a clear 10.
I am also pretty sure that all those who completely condemn Diane have never ever unjustly snapped at somebody when they were on a short fuse.
No, they only always give people what they deserve. The waiter they snapped at clearly deserved it, if they ever were rude to their kids, it was because the kids were lucky not to get a beating, if they steamed off at their partner because their boss was unfair at work it wasn’t actually because of the boss, but because the partner had done something that deserved the treatment.
It’s just us horrible #FtBullies who recognise that at times our behaviour isn’t 100% correct and who are therefore self-confessed assholes or something.
If the story is true, there could be a very good reason for her behavior, steroids. Many patients receive them along with their treatment. One of the many possible side effects of steroids is anger. Even if the reason isn’t steroids it’s still possible that a good person going through that amount of stress and anxiety could unintentionally lash out.
I’m not saying that bad behavior is okay or that she should get a free pass. I’m just saying that she could actually be a kind person and either due to steroids or just extreme stress, she was unable to control her emotions as well as normal. This one incident does not make her an awful person.
Wow, A. Noyd… I haven’t read all these comments but you care waaaayyy too much about a trivial twitter story that more than likely isn’t even true
Well, the influx of drive-boys and randoms has certainly highlighted the (usually) high discourse found here.
Thanks to the regulars for offering up well thought comments devoid of gendered slurs, faux logic and bullshit for the years I have been reading. It has made me a better thinker, and a better person. Thanks also for the paragraphs.
I call bull shit.
Look noone is saying that Diane’s behavior was OK, even if she does have terminal cancer.
But, as someone says on the link. People have a tendency to blame circumstances for their own errors, and blame character deficiencies for errors they perceive in others.
Diane fucked up, and should have behaved better. We do not know why she did that. It might because she had bad day, it might be because she has an inflated sense of self worth, it might because she was terrified of flying etc.
The fact is, we do not know.
This is a basic thing about life – people do shitty things all the time, but htat in itself does not make them shitty people. I am teaching this to my 6 year old now. When someone broke his toy, he can be mad, he can be sad, and he can be mad at the person. But breaking a toy does not make them a bad person. If they make a habit of breaking toys, he should talk to them, and his teachers about their behaviour, or talk to us about it. Perhaps he should make sure they cannot play with his toys any more.
Now whatever fault Diane made, Elan Gale made his own errors and acted like an ass. His beheviour was in no way justified by her errors. Only if you accept the narrative that Diane is somehow a faulty human being because she acted inappropriately could any case be made as to why it would be ok to bully her for hours.
So no – even if she has terminal cancer it does not excuse her behaviour – it might explain it though.
So if we accept the terminal cancer story, and Elan’s story as a whole, we have a woman acting inappropriately because she was in a stressing situation, and a man acting inappropriately to have some fun.
Well from where I stand a moments inexcusable anger is the lesser offense, compared to hours of bullying. But it is still and offense.
Just because Diane is terminally ill does not give her the right to be rude.
Simple.
Just because somebody’s ears get annoyed at someone else complaining doesn’t give him the right to be rude.
Simple.
Look, think about what he did. He didn’t just say “hey, we’re in this too, it’s not their fault, calm down.” He didn’t even just say “calm the fuck down”. He engaged in an escalating sequence of insults and harassment, tweeting the whole thing to the world so everyone could pat him on the back for it. What he did was completely out of line in comparison to what she did, and no amount of revenge fantasy fulfillment happiness makes that untrue.
Just because Diane is terminally ill does not give her the right to be rude.
Simple.
Wow you are right. And it would be a great point if anyone was arguing that it gave her the right to be rude.
What people are saying is that Diane being rude does not give Elan the right to bully her.
z (#286)
If you think I care about the story and not about people’s reactions to it (and what that means for society), then you’re a fool. I’m commenting on people saying Diane deserved it or that cancer patients have to be gracious 100% of the time or that putting a woman in her “place” makes a guy like Elan a brave hero or that bullying is okay as long as it’s in the name of servicepeople. Even if the story’s fake, those attitudes are real.
A. Noyd@281, ScreechyMonkey@282:
You’re absolutely correct….I cut and pasted my comment from elsewhere and had meant to remove the “doesn’t anybody think Diane’s an asshole?” part, after coming from a thread where it didn’t seem to have been acknowledged at all.
>>>How you conclude that she’s the worse person — even ignoring the possibility that she does indeed have terminal cancer — is beyond me.
We’ll just have to disagree. Diane loudly directed her comments at everyone around her, including flight attendants, forcing everyone in proximity to listen to her whining. Elan directed his comments at….Diane. Elan used pen and paper to assault Diane. Diane used her hand to physically strike him. At every turn, Diane used the more objectionable approach….yep, she’s still the worst person of the two in my book.
Terminal cancer is the equivalent of Godwin’s Law. If you have to use it to justify your behavior, then it’s beyond clear that you shouldn’t have engaged in the behavior in the first place. Is that what you want to go to your grave being famous for?
PeePee, most of your comment is based on alleged facts that have been credibly disputed — in particular, the alleged striking, which would have been noticed and acted on by authorities. Is there any record of such action?
Elan directed his comments at….Diane.
And his entire online audience. Also, Elan continued his bullying long after Diane had ceased her bad behavior. That’s where your lame-assed justification of Elan’s actions fails.
Terminal cancer is the equivalent of Godwin’s Law. If you have to use it to justify your behavior…
All I can say to that is the the terminal cancer patient has that much more justification for her behavior than the lying reality-show producer has for his.
I agree wholeheartedly that his behavior was unsupportable, but it was in *no* way sexist. That kind of assessment cheapens the actual offenses as well as genuine cases of sexism. His particular vulgarity could have been directed at any gender.
I should add that her behavior was far more plausibly sexist – men striking people under such circumstances is not widely regarded as socially acceptable. The idea that anyone could be incensed by his “sexism” is horrifying and rather spectacularly hypocritical.
Whence comes all this extra information about how Diane behaved? If you look back at Elan’s first, pre-note-sending tweets, what he’s mocking is just that she is complaining about a situation that applies to everyone present. That’s all. The implication is that she should realize it applies to everyone, and perhaps that she should therefore stop complaining about it. There’s the one exchange with a flight attendant, in which she rudely says “this is not about you.” And that’s ALL.
People are blowing that up into horrible rudeness inflicted on all the passengers. But even Elan didn’t claim that.
It’s fucking nuts. Diane was grouchy about a flight delay, and complained about it. Big deal. That is not a crime that merits retroactive punishment by a stranger several rows back. It’s not.
It’s sad she has cancer. But having cancer doesn’t entitle you to be a self-absorbed jerk to flight staff and disturb other passengers who also want to be home for Thanksgiving.
So, “flawless,” what entitles YOU to ignore some explicit corrective information by the OP’s author and continue with your axe-grinding?
Has anyone even verified that this rebuttal is true? It is important to remember that everyone can be hurting in ways that we can’t even imagine but the response seems a bit over the top and contrived to me.
Ophelia Benson:
“Whence comes all this extra information about how Diane behaved? ”
I think what got Elan the most what the ‘this isn’t about you’ comment. She needed to be calmed down, not dismissed and she said so. Diane has a backbone. Good.
We have ALL complained & vented at some point in our lives. It doesn’t make us rotten to the core deserving of verbal/written abuse and ridicule.
One more thing, if it’s true at all, I hope that slap stung hard. THAT was well deserved and kudos for Diane for standing up for herself and not allowing Elan to make her a victim. Elan got what he deserved, and no Elan, Diane didn’t eat your dick. She smacked you across the face with it.
Has anyone even verified that this rebuttal is true?
Given that Elan had previously FAKED live-tweeting a date, nothing Elan says can be trusted unless it’s independently verified. This guy sounds like someone who enjoys pointlessly stirring up shit just to get attention. Seriously, what kind of person pretends to live-tweet a date? Someone who — AT BEST — doesn’t give a shit about either reality or other people, that ‘s who. I’ve seen grade-school kids showing more sense of propriety.
Discussing this with a family member on fb, who is #teamelan, she said, “Well, it was because of this woman the flight was being delayed.”
I mean really now. The lengths people will go to adjust a story, in their own mind, to suit their own perception of it.
I’ve actually been trying to live by this in meat space. Recognizing that there’s no telling what other people are going through, that they have a vast back story beyond interacting with you and try to give the benefit of the doubt.
It has reduced stress while driving and such by a lot.
It’s called empathy people, something that a LOT of commenters here clearly can’t do.
Shortly after my sister died, I had to get on a plane with my 3 year old son to go to the memorial. It was a clusterfuck of epic proportions. First they bumped me from the flight, but not my son, and it took me 20 minutes to get it through the flight attendant’s head that it was a bad idea, and that yes, it is possible for a child to have a different last name than a parent.
On the flight we were bumped too, they tried to sit my son on the back of the plane and me on the front. I had to explain to another flight attendant why that was a bad idea. He tried to solve the problem by putting us in the exit row. I spent 5 minutes pointing at the ‘not a good idea for anybody but able adults to sit here’ sign before he got it through his head that was a bad idea. We then sat on the tarmac for an hour before take-off, which means I missed my connecting flight.
It took 3 hours to get on a new plane, now going to a different airport. It was at this point I learned my luggage had gone out on the original flight. I asked the flight attendant to please make a note giving permission for my luggage to be picked up by the person who was originally going to be my ride. She claimed she did so. Either she didn’t, or the people on the other end never bothered to check for notes, because the person who picked up my luggage was given a hard time.
They tried again to sit me away from my son. At this point, my son was cranky and hungry and I kept having to divert from the conversation to keep him from melting down. Eventually, they got us seated together, but then tried to tell me my carry-on was too large. A) it was smaller than many other bags being put in the overhead compartments, and B) it had the food in it that would keep the boy from melting down.
At this point, I stopped making an effort to be nice.
_______________________________
All the people criticizing Diane, I envy you your perfect little lives, that you’ve never had a bad day, never known stress, never been at the end of your rope. Cherish the privilege of being so blessed, but remember, you are there only by sheer luck and one day, you may have to walk a mile in those shoes. When that happens, I hope nobody takes it upon themselves to berate you and make the situation worse to punish you for daring to have a bad day.
@Ingdigo Jump, I agree.
Funny that some of the people that I’ve seen laughing the loudest at this are people who I’ve known to have more than one bout of unreasonable entitlement issues themselves.
I wonder why no one waggling their fingers ever points out that with someone acting inappropriately it’s probably much more *useful* to try to be nice and calm them down. Even if they’re actually just an entitled asshole wouldn’t being nice and getting them out of the worker’s hair be more practical?
None of this tittering has anything to do with actually being “polite” or “rude” or making the world a nicer place to be, it’s about punishment. And frankly it seems like a lot of people jumped on this with great glee like they were just waiting for a chance to look down and pile on someone.
If that’s what that is then that’s not being “polite” that using manners as a set of rules to wait for someone to slip up and then descend upon them.
Not even caring if the story is true, the reactions are enough to show a startling lack of empathy. Bunch of you have failed the Voight-Kampff here
Reality show culture. All orchestrated by a reality show insider.
Raging Bee 296
My handle is Peebee. You know, “bee” like yours. Since you had to go to the trouble to change it to a childish insult, who’s being “lame-assed” here? (I will assume that was deliberate, since I hope you’ve mastered cutting and pasting before going on to advanced internet usage such as reading blogs and writing comments.)
If the whole thing was made up, then no one was harmed, no? (I haven’t seen any definitive proof one way or another yet whether this was staged — until then, I’m assuming it happened as it was contemporaneously tweeted, especially given the relative’s response.) I can see why Diane wouldn’t come forward: I’d be pretty embarrassed to have anyone know how I’d behaved if I were her. And it’s my understanding that flight attendants and gate agents can’t just go talking to the media about what happened on their flights — not if they want to keep their jobs. Elan reported on his comments to his online audience (he was not *directing his comments at them* and Diane wasn’t aware of it until the last note), but that was comprised of people who voluntarily want to hear what he has to say….not all the people trapped in aisles 6, 7, 8, and wherever else her loud voice was traveling.
>>Elan continued his bullying long after Diane had ceased her bad behavior.
When was that? She hadn’t stopped anything: she kept pushing her call button after the plane took off (which of course the flight attendant can’t respond to for some time until it’s safe for them to leave the jump seat, and even then, responding to a single passenger can delay beverage service for the rest of the cabin). Elan sent her wine and vodka (and a note not commenting on her as a person, but on her behavior of running her mouth); she sent a note calling him “an awful person with no compassion.” He escalated in the next note, she kept going too. After the flight, she walked up and slapped him. A simple “you’re right, I overreacted,” with an apology to the flight attendant and the people of her row….that would have prevented any escalation at all. But it wasn’t about anyone else’s experience….it was about her, clearly. Pure narcissism.
@Peebee
Sit and spin
>>When was that? She hadn’t stopped anything: she kept pushing her call button after the plane took off…”
Please point us to where Elan or anyone on that plane said she kept pushing her call button after the plane took off. Here’s the entire situation: http://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelzarrell/this-epic-note-passing-war-on-a-delayed-flight-wins-thanksgi
Because the last compliant that I see there is when the plane took over and she was muttering 5 rows behind Elan.
Kerry @ 314
Happy to oblige:
https://twitter.com/theyearofelan/statuses/406119316669480960
The Buzzfeed doesn’t have the full stream.
@Peebee, thank you.
Still don’t think her poor behavior gives Elan a pass to act like a tool. Do you think his antics of involving the flight attendants in his little note passing game wasn’t taking them away from the other passengers as well? It’s possible his harassment is what made her keep pushing that call button. He tweeted that AFTER he sent her the wine and note.
I’m currently sitting next to my husband who works in the airline industry and he’d heard about this independent from me, because everyone he works with said Elan should’ve been instructed to stop and, if he didn’t, would’ve been detained at the gate. It’s not his job to police the passengers. FAs are trained to deal with people who travel and have mental/emotional issues or are just rude.
FWIW, like I, he and most everyone else involved thinks it was all BS too. And, if the FA was aware of it, and didn’t stop it, they’d receive a counseling.
Hard to believe anyone thinks such glib aggression would enhance his status among his followers. FFS, why couldnt he have chosen one of the million other ways to tut-tut her, assuming that was his job to begin with? He navigated the course of most narcissism and knowing he was being watched put on a show at her expense thinking he looked cool.. His followers are quite a band of enablers.
A simple “you’re right, I overreacted,” with an apology to the flight attendant and the people of her row….that would have prevented any escalation at all.
Elan could have prevented escalation too, by keeping his mouth shut like most passengers do when shit like this happens. He also could have prevented escalation by leaving Diane alone after everyone was belted in for takeoff. Funny how you seem to think only one person is responsible for preventing escalation.
If the whole thing was made up, then no one was harmed, no?
If you FLAT-OUT LIE about a real person ON THE INTERNET, then yes, that real person is harmed. How fucking stupid do you have to be not to see this? Sit and spin, peepee, you clearly don’t have the chops for anything more complex than that.
More assumptions not in evidence. More reading stuff in. You have NO IDEA whether her voice was loud or not.
Peebee you completely left out the ‘eat my dick’ part. A.Noyd and several others pointed out repeatedly how threatening & sexist that is to a woman. Yet you choose to ignore this pertinent fact.
Elan bullied Diane and made it entertainment. So here we have one person complains loudly and then stops. The other person stirs the pot in order to get a reaction so as to liven up his on line persona. Yet you call the woman a narcissist? I’m sorry. Your argument does not hold water. No matter how many times you say it. You’re sounding sexist to me and I’m sure to a few others on this blog.
Happy to oblige…
That’s all you have — the word of a guy who became famous for PRETENDING to live-tweet a date? That’s the guy whose side you’re taking uncritically? Peepee, you’re beyond stupid.
Elan’s blog is an adventure in psychopathy and bullying. He thrives on causing misfortune in other people’s lives. Check it out: http://theyearofelan.tumblr.com.
Elan is the dick, he should eat his own!! He’s obv. a lonely unkempt man, who can’t get a girlfriend. He needs a bath, shave a haircut, he’s so gross. I would have freaked and called security if he even looked at me on a flight, let alone give me notes and/or send me drinks. Yikes!!! He just wanted attention. H’es a famewhore.
OR, he’s made the entire thing up for attention and to get twitter followers, which STIILL makes him a lonely man and a dickhead, either way. He’s a scary looking person, I ‘m sure Diane was scared of him, or maybe she would have been nicer, has anyone thought of that, perhaps, she just wanted him to leave her alone. He stalked her, he should have been the one security arrested!! If I was Diane, I would have pressed charges on this idiot, nasty man.
@Peebee and others… Maggie already pointed out this guy’s history, but I think it needs repeating.
Elan is the classy sort who when a couple’s loud arguments annoy him, he sends flowers to the woman and signs the note from an ex. An ex the male partner was already jealous of. http://theyearofelan.tumblr.com/post/37775908341/revenge-on-my-neighbors
Think about that for a moment. Think about what risk that could put that woman in. Elan has no idea how violent the male is. What lengths he will go.
No Elan didn’t think about anyone other than himself and his amazon packages.
WithinThisMind @307
Quite a story you’ve shared with us, and I can certainly understand why it would have sucked to have been you on that trip.
The difference, though, between you and Diane, is that you were experiencing a situation that was unique to you (other people weren’t being separated from their toddlers and luggage). Diane’s experience was the same as everyone’s on the plane in that the delay affected everyone, and given that it happened around Thanksgiving, chances were good that almost everyone on the plane was traveling to be with their families. (And traveling through a hub means that many passengers have connecting flights).
You had to make your situation known to a flight attendant because that person had the capacity to rectify your situation. Diane’s complaining to the flight attendant had absolutely no impact, because a flight attendant has zero capacity to alter the flight plan. There’s having a bad day — we’ve all had them. And then there’s taking your bad day and attempting to infect everyone else with it. That’s what Diane did. And there’s also taking your bad day and attempting to infuse humor into it and/or turn it into a teachable moment. That’s what Elan did. While no one handled the situation perfectly, I happen to prefer Elan’s approach.
It seems to me that Elan lost the ability to tell the difference between reality TV and actual reality. On reality TV like the shows he produces, being the biggest wise-ass usually wins, in actual real life, it just makes you an ass
I referenced your post here:
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-bullying-of-diane/
@Peebee, think about what you’re saying for a minute. Who are you or Elan to judge everyone’s ‘bad’ moment and whether they deserve harassment and public humiliation for it? How do we know everyone’s backstory? How do we determine who is having a bad day and is justified and who isn’t?
And Elan didn’t teach anyone anything. Someone who is a narcissist, as you’ve internet diagnosed Diane to be, will not learn from this sort of education. EVER. The only thing Elan did was aggravate a situation that wasn’t his place to be involved in in the first place.
As a wise friend of mine once said, the only person who thinks they can change another narcissist is a narcissist.
Great post, Shoshanna.
@Ophelia Benson
That’s an easy one. Elan was sitting 5 rows away from Diane in 7A, and heard what Diane was saying about the delay to the flight attendant. If she had been expressing her frustration quietly, no one would have ever known about any of this.
Well, here’s another thing and why I don’t believe his story.
If Diane was in 7 and Elan in 2 (5 rows ahead). That would put him in 1st class or business and sitting completely separate from her.
Given the fact that there were 3 seats in the photo of 7A that Elan provided, then it was a narrowbody jet. There isn’t a plane in USairways fleet that doesn’t have 7 in Economy and 2 in First or Business.
Elan was in a whole other class.
I don’t know that I believe that the letter is true to be honest. What he did was over the top, yes. What she did was cause problems for others, over the top and violent. You don’t get a pass for bad behaviour. If she had stage IV lung cancer, there is really no way she would have been able to fly on her own without any assistance. Again, that is why I don’t believe the letter is true. If it was true and verified, it would have probably shown up somewhere other than Storify.
@Raging Pee (you really should get that checked out)
>>Elan could have prevented escalation too, by keeping his mouth shut like most passengers do when shit like this happens.
And that’s exactly why it keeps happening. Narcissists get to shovel their shit to other people’s side of the fence, and all the rest of us are supposed to put up with it?
If this didn’t happen, then there was no woman named Diane who was harmed. If this didn’t happen the way it was tweeted, and “Diane” never speaks up to expose the lie, then very little harm was caused because no one knows it was her. But if it did actually happen, and Diane “was very contrite and upset about her behavior on the plane,” then you can damn well bet she’ll think twice about acting out on a plane again. And some other people seeing this may also think twice about going off on a flight attendant, knowing the risk that someone nearby is tweeting about them.
Look, I’m sorry the lady is sick and my sympathies and prayers go out to her family, but that does NOT give anyone the right to be a complete entitled jackass to people who have NO CONTROL over the plane taking off. I read Elan Gale’s follow up on Twitter and he was right….
“I don’t care what’s going on with you: Don’t be rude to people who are doing their job. Don’t do it. Don’t dismiss them. Don’t act like they are less than you. Don’t abuse them just because you’re the customer and “The Customer Is Always Right.” If you’re the customer, you’re only right if you’re kind, polite and positively thankful. If you’re not, you’re a jerk, and that’s the bottom line.”
Even “Diane’s” cousin didn’t make any attempt to excuse her behavior on the because they knew her behavior was indefensible. By the way, Diane’s response letter wasn’t completely innocent either. She went on to say how horrible it is for that man’s family to have to put up with him. We as a society have become WAY too comfortable with the words “bullying” and “sexism.” If the Diane had told Elan to “eat a dick”, would THAT be considered sexist. When someone is being awful, it’s not bullying, it’s giving an asshole their due. You don’t want to be told off? Don’t be an asshole. Simple.
>> And some other people seeing this may also think twice about going off on a flight attendant, knowing the risk that someone nearby is tweeting about them.
hahaha omg I can’t stop laughing. Elan Gale Savior of Our Culture from Narcissists.
You do understand that a true narcissist wouldn’t care, right? That’s what actually makes them a narcissist.
Everyone needs to just unfollow or ignore Elan, on twitter ~ give him a taste of his own medicine for a change! I have never thought anything he said or tweeted was funny. On his “I hate mail” tumbler incoherent ramblings, how high is he, and I don’t mean on the plane? He also looks very shabby, example. money can’t buy class or a bath, I guess.
@Kerry
>>Who are you or Elan to judge everyone’s ‘bad’ moment and whether they deserve harassment and public humiliation for it? How do we know everyone’s backstory? How do we determine who is having a bad day and is justified and who isn’t?
My point is that no backstory, no bad day justifies this kind of behavior: complaining about an unfixable, generally applicable situation that is no one’s fault, to a service worker who has no capacity to fix or change it, loudly enough that it is heard by people several aisles away. I’m a frequent flier, elite status on my airline of choice, and I’ve been subjected to numerous flight delays. I’m not announcing to everyone around me all that I’m missing or telling off a flight attendant.
So, what do his looks or his Tumblr have to do with “Diane” being an ass to flight attendants, Lynsey?
Kerry @331, it’s also interesting to note that if Elan was in first class, then his “generous” gifts of wine and vodka presumably weren’t costing him anything. (And yes, I’ve actually seen people try to argue that Elan is such a sweetheart for “buying” her drinks.)
>>>You do understand that a true narcissist wouldn’t care, right? That’s what actually makes them a narcissist.
There are narcissists, and people who engage in narcissistic behavior (most people, situationally). Perhaps a “true narcissist” is incapable of caring or changing their behavior, but there are a lot of people out there who do have the capacity to look at their behavior and realize when they’re being selfish or douchey or dumping on the wrong person. We’ve all had moments where we’ve been tempted to go off on someone whose job it is to serve us. Most of us restrain that impulse. And more would restrain that impulse if they knew someone would be calling them on it, that they couldn’t get away without other people knowing.
Oz @ 334
No, it could be considered emasculating, bigoted, or sexist. Seriously think: who are the people that “eat dick”? And don’t give me that literal bullshit, unless “eating pussy” is also meant literally (it’s not.) Gay/bi men and (slutty) women. Those are the most common types of people associated with “eating dick”. There’s also the rape vibe to it: it’s an unwelcome demand for someone to perform sexually. If it wasn’t for all of those factors, “eat my dick” wouldn’t have the insulting/threatening power it does.
Octavia @377
>>>Peebee you completely left out the ‘eat my dick’ part.
Octavia @377
>>>Peebee you completely left out the ‘eat my dick’ part.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/11/bullying-at-35-thousand-feet/#comment-1006347
Um, no, I didn’t. I’m not that concerned about sounding sexist to anyone who can’t read my posts. Especially since I’m a woman who has experienced a bunch more male passengers behaving this way on planes than female passengers, and don’t think I should have to worry about being slapped if I let someone know that the way they treated a flight attendant and/or their fellow passengers was out of line.
Dying or not, the woman was totally wrong to be making such a fuss. Everyone on the flight had somewhere to be. The eat my dick part wasn’t necessary, but I have absolutely no sympathy for this woman.
Peebee @ 340
Is that a fact?
@peebee, but you said Diane was a narcissist. Not just engaging in narcissistic behavior. So… if I were on that plane and here’s Elan who thinks Diane is an asshole and needs to be taught a lesson with public humiliation and harassment. And I think Elan is an asshole who needs to be taught a lesson. Who’s right? Who gets to be the educator? Where does it end?
I get saying to someone, “Hey, that’s not cool.” But that’s not what Elan did. He engaged in narcissistic behavior with narcissistic behavior. He gave no thought that they were on a plane, in the air, and his actions could’ve angered a woman who already had shown to be upset. What if she flipped out and lashed out? He didn’t care about that. He only cared about his own enjoyment. After the first returned note, a rational person would’ve realized she wouldn’t understand his ‘lesson’. But he said then, “This is war.”
That’s not about educating someone. He made it personal.
Peebee @ 277
Douching is rarely medically necessary, causes more problems than it solves when used for hygiene, shames women for having a beneficial natural odor (the bacteria produce hydrogen peroxide in the vagina, douching flushes the bacteria out, less protection for the reproductive organs and urinary tract)… So that’s why “douchebag” is an insult, and not a gendered one either. It essentially boils down to the synonymous phrase “needlessly harmful”.
The phrase “eat my dick” is crude but it is not sexist. Sexism is discrimination based on one’s sex. This phrase may be said to people of any sex.
And the note is not an example of bullying. The words indicate displeasure with her and her behavior, but there is no threat implied.
Slapping, of course, may be considered to be bullying in some circumstances, but not really in this one.
@Kerry:
We’ll just have to disagree. If I was going off on a service worker and someone sent me some drinks and told me to shut my pie hole, I would know I crossed the line and better shut up right then and there. It’s never happened to me and never will. Diane was the one engaged in abusive, bullying conduct, going off on the flight attendant about something he had no capacity to fix, and about something that affected everyone else on the plane in the exact same way, yet Elan is the bully? I just don’t get that.
And for those of you think there’s sexism out there and want to support a woman online, how about this one:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/11/30/247842138/science-reporter-emily-graslie-reads-her-mail-and-it-s-not-so-nice
I’d much rather support this one than someone who takes her issues and uses them to make everyone else around her miserable.
@Kerry —
Yep, I think Diane is a narcissist, because she didn’t change her behavior when given an opportunity to. These qualities describe her very well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism, 4 of the 7 deadly sins of narcissism):
Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
Envy A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person’s ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an “awkward” or “difficult” person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
@Peebee, Diane can be wrong and so can Elan. That’s where I think you don’t have the awareness to go beyond one has to be right and the other wrong. The first note wasn’t a big deal. His ‘war’ after made him look like an angry child instigating something that was none of his business. He has a history of behaving in the same manner and not caring about the consequences of his actions beyond making, who he judges unworthy, miserable.
And how do you know we aren’t already supporting Emily and other things? Here’s a some advice, since you believe in educating people when they are acting like assholes, that last comment was passive-aggressive bullshit. And now I can see why you support Elan’s passive-aggressive condescending behavior.
Elan is a creep and a creeper, seems like he always has been too. End of story.
Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
“Eat my Dick”
Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person’s ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
Look at how many people agree with ME and not you, Diane! I hate you! They all hate you!
Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an “awkward” or “difficult” person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
You didn’t find my wit and generosity amazing?! This means War!!
Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
Instigating public humiliation, more than once, for their own entertainment.
Sounds like Elan to me! Looks like two narcissist went head to head. Like I said before… only a narcissist thinks they can change another narcissist.
@Kerry
My very first comment on this topic pointed out where Elan is wrong. I was “aware” before I ever read this post, as it had been posted elsewhere. Yes, I come out more on Elan’s side than Diane’s, but that doesn’t make him a saint.
The second half of my message wasn’t directed at you — I accidentally hit “submit” when I was trying to preview my comment, working out the HTML tags from what was supposed to be the rest of the post sent to you.
A number of other commenters have either focused on this as some great example of sexism and one even called me sexist — I just pointed out what I thought was a much better example, from a woman who didn’t appear to have brought much of it (or any, I suspect, but I haven’t listened to her broadcasts) upon herself. I don’t get the need for personal attacks, myself, but hey, knock yourself out. I would expect no less from someone who supports Diane in this situation.
It is very regrettable that Elan used the phrase “Eat my dick”. And that repeating it constituted harassment (actually, sending any second note after the first one was harassment, but people reading the incident live considered the series “funny”, empowering Elan to continue.)
But the specific meaning of the phrase has broad usage in the U.S. outside of being a demand for sexual acts. Elan appeared to be playing off of the widely used phrase “eat a dick” by making it “eat MY dick”. But I think the specific usage of the verb “eat” might be a strong indicator that he was not intending fellatio in his retort.
The Urban Dictionary lists a series of variants of this:
“a generic yet abrasive comeback to a verbal attack”
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eat%20a%20dick
Pretty insensitive and definitely bullying, but perhaps not an exact fit under the definition of “sexual harassment”. Unless you would also fit in the phrase “fuck you” as sexual harassment. (Which you are welcome to do personally. I just don’t think that would be the standard opinion for most people. Your opinions are still yours and I do not mean to impose other opinions in their place. Just to observe that others don’t hold the same opinions.)
I find Elan’s note is very crude and in bad taste. In my humble opinion he should not be in a ‘service’ field job. He should at the very least be written up by his employer.
@Kerry:
Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
Diane>flight attendant, before Elan said a word.
Envy A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person’s ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
Diane>flight attendant, again, before Elan said a word.
Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an “awkward” or “difficult” person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
Diane>flight attendant…expecting that favorable treatment that no one and especially not the flight attendant could give. The flight attendant’s failure to buy in meant he was attacking Diane, so her reply was “it’s not about you!” Again, before Elan said a word. Elan’s defiance of her will was what took her to the rage stage, but it was certainly brewing before then.
Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
Again, Diane to the flight attendant, whose job it is to listen, empathize, model “customer is always right” behavior with difficult passengers. Before Elan said a word.
It was Elan’s narcissism which led him to challenge the situation rather than ignore it, and it’s clear he took delight in egging her on, since it made for a better “storify,” but she certainly had it coming.
Peebee:
‘Um, no, I didn’t. I’m not that concerned about sounding sexist to anyone who can’t read my posts. Especially since I’m a woman who has experienced a bunch more …’
Obviously, I was referring to a latter post. #312 and on. I’m not scrolling back 30 posts to document when you mentioned Elan’s dick insults.
Here we go again, you attack the well deserved slap by Diane but you let the words that brought her there slide. Your argument is that Diane brought her troubles to those seated around her which makes her worse than Elan who kept it contained. You’ve gone on really to the point of boredom about how Diane’s outbursts were completely inexcusable – even if she’s battling stage IV cancer. (Compassionate much?) Over saying to a dismissive FA “this is not about you.” She did not torture the FA, for all we know she settled into her seat and it was over. Her outburst may have affected a few people but really, how badly? You can’t always be 100% in control of your emotions. But you can control yourself when you get the impulse to instigate a fight. What action came first really has no bearing because it’s not about action/reaction. It’s about a complaint met with an attack. The attack ‘eat my dick’ was worse than the complaint because it was designed to provoke. The complaint was exasperation.
I did think you were a man but it’s no matter, I’m already well aware that some women can be perfect misogynists. I don’t know you and am not calling you a misogynist but your posts do seem to be rather sexist.
Let’s make a list of people who “had it coming” in the past, maybe starting with the Canaanites and working our way forward from there.
Everyone who loses their temper in public is now a narcissist? Isn’t that reaching a bit?
Can anyone verify this REALLY happened…..seems a bit over the top…all the way around.
Tweets from the entire incident gone viral? Why not take a picture of Diane in her seat (taking a picture of a seat number)? Eat my dick sounds like a made up phrase that doesn’t fit this scenario? An assault occurs in public view at an airport with no police or security response….really? Now Dianne has cancer? US AIr witnesses and condones the event (two bottles of vodka and a glass of wine?) Elan spends $10 to give her the wine and vodka?
The whole thing sounds contrived……
Sometimes assholes need to be told they’re assholes. It really ought to happen more often. I don’t care if she has cancer. She was being an asshole.
It’s like someone’s running a psychology experiment in here
That or someone’s sock puppet drawer exploded.
So, dizzygirl, next time you’re having dinner out or a few drinks or coffee with friends and you’re in a bad mood and you get irritable with a server, you want some random guy a few tables away to harass you back into good behavior? Tell the truth now. Would you really be ok with that? Would you really think you needed to be told by random guy across the room?
I was schooled earlier for not reading the earlier posts (when I had, but just hadn’t edited my message as precisely as I should have.) So hey, you don’t have to scroll 30 posts back, but don’t tell me I “completely left out” something.
Sorry, take away my V card, but “eat my dick” just doesn’t constitute harassment or bullying or anything but a joking statement that is pretty frequently tossed around these days. For one, if you want to talk about definitions of sexual harassment, one discrete remark is rarely if ever enough: it has to be severe or pervasive. It also followed “You’re an awful person with no compassion. I’m sorry for your family that they should have to deal with you.” To a person who sent her free drinks and fairly gently reminded her that others were witnessing her tantrum? Hard to argue severity when you’re dishing out the insults yourself.
>>You can’t always be 100% in control of your emotions.
>>Everyone who loses their temper in public is now a narcissist?
I’ve seen situations like this a bunch of times, and 95 times out of 100, it’s a male passenger going off on a female flight attendant. There are a lot more dudes flying on business trips, they tend to behave more aggressively, and the ratio of female to male flight attendants is tipped pretty heavily on the XX side. And if a female passenger (like me, for example, I’m a frequent flier who’s had it up to here with people like that) said something or passed a note, and as she was getting off the plane, got slapped by the guy, do you think the guy would have escaped handcuffs and jail time? That the woman would just have shook off the escalation to physical violence? You better be 100% in control of your emotions when you’re on an airplane these days, with air marshals and FAA regulations.
>>some women can be perfect misogynists.
>>I don’t know you
Yeah, you got that right. Given that a large part of my professional responsibilities throughout my career has been to combat sexism and other forms of discrimination, it’s unlikely I fit that description. But I’m not going to apologize for thinking the feminist cause is not well served by holding up examples of behavior that would not be tolerated AT ALL if the genders were reversed as some kind of litmus test for misogyny. That’s just needlessly venturing into “when you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail” territory.
Dizzygirl, what if you got upset over something in public and for whatever reasons could not contain your emotion. You’re alone. And a strange man sends you a note to that he hates you very much and to ‘eat his dick’. Then tweets it to 130k of his followers and they had a good laugh over you? Would you think you deserved it?
Peebee @ 365
Um, wow. Way to downplay it. The “gift” of wine was intended only to shut her up, explicitly stated in the “fairly gentle” note. Already in evidence was her self-importance and the reaction that any attempt at deflating that self-importance had on her from the flight attendant. So it was aggression in the note through and through in order to escalate. Note also she did not respond with her note until after Elan set more alcohol on her seat tray… He wasn’t letting the feud fizzle out until he got an over-the-top reaction. So yeah, please be honest about what actually motivated her to respond with her insults after being insulted herself by someone who had no reason to impart themselves in the situation.
Peebee I totally disagree with you. It seems as if you are dismissing Elan’s disgusting & hateful remarks again. You think “eat my dick’ is alright to say to a mature female stranger who did nothing directly to you, that’s your business. I would never accept that. I understand you fly often and you are already fed up & biased. Okay.
On the sexism aspect, when a man is being aggressive to a woman it is not the same as the woman being the aggressor. I shouldn’t have to explain why. You can’t just flip genders and say it’s an even playing field. It’s not. A man can kill me with his bare hands. I can’t do that back. I don’t enjoy a stranger making me fearful in any situation.
You can’t be 100% control of your emotions on demand, we are human being, we cry, become stressed, worry, have anxiety and so on.. Diane didn’t wave a gun and threaten people. She was exasperated and had had enough. Not everyone flies as often as you do. Not everyone is a pro at it.
Makes no difference to me what your work is or whether you are sexist or not. But you keep giving Elan a pass and you have no compassion for Diane as you have said many times she does not get a pass even if she is going through a very touch physical and emotional time. Nothing.
You have issues with her slap. I personally loved that she fought back. Maybe Elan learned not to F*ck with a irritated mom-pants-wearing-middle-aged-woman for kicks next time he gets the notion.
@106
So she had it coming? All Elan had to do was – oh wait, nothing! All Elan had to do was nothing and none of this would have happened! His behavior was not a reasonable or proportionate response to her minor rudeness.
Wow a lot of you are just frelling awful
If it wasn’t for all of those factors, “eat my dick” wouldn’t have the insulting/threatening power it does.
PRECISELY. It’s sexism and homophobia that MAKE it an insult AT ALL. In a rational society, it would have approximately the same force as “Kiss me, you fool!”
My god all of you self-righteous people need to shut your trap. You would’ve been pissed off at this lady too. And this whole “oh poor her, she had cancer” thing is bullshit. Cancer doesn’t excuse being an asshole. Yeah, it’s sad that she’s dying but it had nothing to do with the argument and if she’d said that in the first place and acted a little more humble, then people would’ve been sympathetic instead of annoyed. This guy was a dick in some instances but saying “eat my dick” doesn’t make him sexist, idiots. you can say that to a man or a woman and it applies just as well. some women even say it. that’s because it’s a FIGURE OF SPEECH. now if he’d said something like “it’s just like a woman to be loud and obnoxious” THAT would be sexist.
ha, I bet if it was a 6ft. fit guy, little pussy Elan would never have said a word and let the people (the airline employees/attendents) handle this everyday type of situation, esp. during holiday travel. But he wants everyone to think he’s a big man, who expects a pat on the back for getting into with a women several rows from him. She was not sitting next to him, behind or in front or causing HIM a problem, he made it his business, it was NOT his business. If this was in a restaurant and he did that to another man, that’s how fist fights happen. It’s not classy, Elan probably has a very small dick, so this is how he handles something none of his business with a woman upset cause she wouldn’t make it home with her family for the holiday. He’s a complete moran, jerk and a dumbass, who craves attention in any form. Pathetic piece of crap bully for picking on the “easy” target.
*moron*
@Octavia
>>You think “eat my dick’ is alright to say to a mature female stranger who did nothing directly to you?
If I had 1) been rude to a service worker; 2) loudly enough that this stranger overheard me; 3) after I called them “an awful person with no compassion”, I would not assume that I had “done nothing” and was blameless in the situation. There’s no question that Elan escalated things for comedic/dramatic effect, pretty much like you might expect someone schooled in reality TV tactics to do, which only worsened the situation.
>>On the sexism aspect, when a man is being aggressive to a woman it is not the same as the woman being the aggressor.
When you’re talking a slap, I absolutely agree with you. Which is why Diane walked away scot free instead of being in handcuffs or getting slugged back by someone who could have caused her physical harm. Perhaps she also learned that you don’t get on a plane and start heaping abuse on flight attendants about something over which they have no control.
>> You can’t just flip genders and say it’s an even playing field.
That’s a pretty good sign, then, that you’re not talking about gendered behavior, but behavior that is inappropriate regardless of who is engaging in it. Not exactly what you want to be hanging your sexism hat on.
>>You can’t be 100% control of your emotions on demand, we are human being, we cry, become stressed, worry, have anxiety and so on.
Yes, but keep it on your own side of the fence. Don’t make it my problem just because I happen to be sitting near you. Don’t make it the problem of the person who’s paid to provide you service. If you’re being rude to flight attendants, you’re probably being rude to your waiter in a restaurant, your nurse at the doctor’s office, the customer service person trying to help you on the phone and any “little person” you encounter in your daily life (and I don’t mean the height-challenged). After the first note, Diane could have taken a deep breath, sat back in her seat, swigged a couple of sips from the drinks (or not, if she can’t or doesn’t drink) and said to herself, “you know, this is getting out of hand, maybe I should shut up now.”
I’m going to take my own advice here. If you think what Diane did was justifiable somehow, there’s nothing else I can say, except that I hope you’re not on any of my flights over the holidays, or ever darken the door of my favorite restaurants and bars. Shit doesn’t have to roll downhill.
Everybody stop exaggerating.
There is no mention of her “heaping abuse on flight attendants.” None. There is mention of one – ONE – dismissive retort. That’s all.
And as so many of us have pointed out: you don’t teach people not to heap abuse on others by heaping abuse on them. Elan didn’t teach anyone anything except how to be a bullying shithead, which people already know from watching tv, including the tv he produces.
__________________________________________
And everybody: don’t call people pussies, don’t talk about small dicks, none of that.
Yes. Yes. Because we all feel compassion for someone who was being harassed, no matter how rude they were, or understand that it’s not some strangers place to publicly humiliated someone for his own entertainment and act like real life is reality tv, then we are all rude and obnoxious people, walking around life insulting everyone and pushing are way into where ever we want.