A bit of housekeeping. Boring, I know, but it’s an outrageous vicious lie and it’s sticking in my head the way corn sticks in your teeth. It’s so outrageous and so vicious that this one time I will even link to the pit. It may be futile or even worse than futile, since Studies Have Shown that correcting a lie enforces the lie rather than correcting it; nevertheless I can’t just let it sit there.
One “Richard Strawkins” (see what I mean about how this works? the lie won’t damage him [I’ll assume he really is male] because that’s not his name; it will damage only me) said on October 5, in a discussion of Dawkins’s foreword to the new Jesus and Mo collection:
Does anyone remember the time that Jesus and Mo had that cartoon based on PZ, mansplainin’ correct feminism to the barmaid? It was about a month after elevatorgate started. Ophelia was so furious that she outed the J and M’s authors name on Butterflies and Wheels. (the name began with “D” -It’s memory holed now and there’s no way I’m going to repeat it here) Outing someone like that, someone who is more than likely to be targeted for murder by Islamic fundamentalists, just because they make a joke you don’t like, is hardly the action of a friend.
That is a fucking evil vicious lie. I never did any such thing.
“mordacious” pretended to remember it.
Yes, I remember that very well. She’s a sick piece of work, that one. Doing something like that can get someone killed (and I don’t mean getting upset that someone warned you that you might want to take care at TAM, I mean stabbed, shot, beaten and sent to the Russian front).
Lies lies lies lies lies you evil bastards.
Well you see, the name Strawkins clearly meant that it was someone creating a straw man argument and so it was all just a joke and you fell for it ’cause you’re a GIRL.
Or something.
Even if you had done it, do they seriously claim that you placed him in danger by revealing his first name? Yeah, now all the Ebil Mooslims have to do is find out the last name and the country or residence, and they will have narrowed the list down to 1000 men!
I well remember the comic in question; I well remember the exchanges following it; I certainly do not remember you outing Author. I am equally sure that had you outed him you would not have gone on to share a chat and drinks in Manchester.
Anyway, what’s the problem with knowing his name’s Mohammed Jones? It’s even on the cover of his books.
Unfortunately, as you say, it won’t matter; once enough of them “remember” it, they will say it and people will believe it and it doesn’t matter at all if it ever actually happened or not.
The disgusting part+1 is that these are still people who cling to the label of “skeptic.”
I can confirm that the “outing” accusation is utter bullshit.
I suddenly feel moved to write a ballet entitled Dance of the Skeptics.
I thought the slime pit was ERV’s blog. Didn’t realize it was a forum.
Author, obviously Ophelia has bullied you, or you’re suffering Stockholm syndrome.
What’s FC5?
Thank you Author! xxxxxx
Brian – it used to be ERV’s blog, then she and they moved it to a forum.
Addendum: And I wasn’t “furious,” either. I was a bit worried, but then we chatted about it, and I wasn’t.
Thanks for the post fix Ophelia.
Still not sure what FC5 is….do I want to know?
Of course you don’t. It’s part of their stupid idiolect. They have all sorts of stupid insulting nicknames and titles for the people they’re harassing.
That’s enough. Ignorance is bliss, and all that
Maybe it’s time sue them for defamation to get a retraction and an apology.
Late to this, but I remember “it”, too (“it” being the incident that did not happen because you did not out anyone), and I remember that you outed the author so well that I still don’t know his name!
Aratina, it’s Author. Geez some people are slow on the uptake. A few roos short in the top paddock. A six pack short of a slab….
Do the Slymepitters realize that Barmaid would never let them gnaw her shins (and is therefore a _______ _________ _________)?
Do the Slymes regularly dabble in Author rumors? Could this be a ploy to provoke some?
LOL, briane. So thaaat’s it. Right under my nose the whole time. I feel so humiliated!
I’ve kept an eye on comments on slymepit for the last hour or so, and I’ve come to the conclusion that they don’t think much of pz’s horde, and seem a bit non plus send that their attempt at a gotcha moment on Ophelia missed. Apart from that, just another forum I won’t be joining.
Sorry Aratina, it was too droll for me not to say it. 🙂
But Briane, that can’t be right. Richard Strawkins clearly remembers that it started with a “D”.
Perhaps it’s “D’Author”?
Yeah Richard Strawkins remembers that it happened, too, except it didn’t!
Author even ventured over there to tell them it wasn’t true. Lying creeps.
mutter mutter mutter mutter
Wow.
That’s slimy. But then, I guess, exactly as advertised.
It’s kinda repellently fascinating, seeing the whole process of denomination under way, though…
Would it be callous to wager on how long it takes them to concoct a proper blood libel, complete with midnight rituals and dead babies?
(/Okay. Yeah. I guess it would.)
Are they counting on people being lazy and not looking it up for themselves? I’ve been reading you since long before that incident and I know you didn’t out anybody, but if I weren’t sure, couldn’t I look back at the archives?
They are claiming it has been deleted, which is what the memory hole comment is going on about. Because, you know, if you are going to lie, make sure that it can’t be varified one way or the other! I really don’t understand these people, at all.
Like you’ve never lied in you’re miserable, self-loathing life. Like cuntkick which you have never accurately quoted – but deformed and bloated it into your endless martyr’s wailing. Deceitful, treacherous worm.
Nothing has been deleted. They’re just full of it.
They’re oddly like religious fundies in another way, too – so many of write with poor spelling and grammar. Just look at Barf (apt nym!), as well as at Vacula’s malapropisms.
* “so many of them”
It’s the law of the internet. All spelling & grammar critiques MUST come with at least one spelling or grammar flaw.
See, this is the problem, Ophelia, when you delete comments, including your own, at will. There is no record. Now this incident happened a while back and I didn’t screen cap it (why would I? it’s between Author and you). I do remember Author’s first name (why, I don’t know…probably because it’s the same as my brother’s), but I do not remember his last name.
You complain about the slymepit, but no comments (except for maybe one) has ever been deleted. It’s all there for everyone to check. My fellow slymepit denizens know the game better than I and immediately screen cap comments that they know will go down the memory hole. I’m a rookie at that stuff, now I’ve learned my lesson.
Being called a liar by FfTB people puts me in the same category as Russell Blackford (good company IMO). Maybe you will deny that happened too.
We shouldn’t have this problem again, since I no longer read your blog (except someone directed me to this post).
Good day.
mordacious, are you going to continue carrying the torch of ineptitude here? The AUTHOR has stated here and at the Slyme Pit that Ophelia did not out him. In any case, the comments on that cartoon were made on the Jesus & Mo page, not here, so Ophelia had not control of what was or wasn’t deleted in any case. But why get bogged down in tedious facts when it’s so much easier to lie out of your ass, right?
Paging Elizabeth Loftus.
Wrong. There is no problem and there is a record. Ophelia just isn’t around to address your newer fabrications at this time. Be patient, mordacious1.
Wow.
Sure, dear Mendacious One, Author and Ophelia are just in on it. You remember it right, and you’re reliably reporting it, sure ya are…
Sayyyy… Let’s try some historiographers’ methods on this, shall we?
Where else do you find references to this alleged Ophelia’s ‘outing’ of Author?
And when do these references date from?
And what are those references like? Any of ’em point to a specific text, say? With specific words? Quotes?
See, it’s funny how memory is. And confabulation. And lies. And self-serving memories of events. Conveniently, we deal with this all the time, as unbelievers, it so happens.
… and we know how to deal with it. Same as historiographers and textual crit people deal with it in the evolution of ‘sacred’ texts.
So, sure, let’s say you’re not just the lying sack of shit you smell like from here, and Ophelia somehow deleted all memory of the event from her blogs… Oh, and from, apparently, the memories of all the other folk who were around but you and your little pal.
Right. Fascinating. Quite the trick, that.
But then: where are the other folk present, mentioning it at the time? In blogs Ophelia doesn’t control?
See, there are a lot of people around–including at FtB–who read Ophelia, and who rather like Author. And there was some attention given to that strip.
Where’s the reflection from the time in the neighbouring blogs for Ophelia’s alleged outing? Did anyone mention it at the time? Link to it? Huh?
And if not, how come? Seems to me that should have been one hell of a thing, same as ‘outings’ and ‘Dox drops’ generally are…
Oh, and speaking of, it seems to me there’s a lot of you obviously hate Ophelia. How come this is just coming out now? What, you just, conveniently, ‘remembered’?
See, when we find that kind of thing in an ancient, ‘sacred’ text–one not particularly contemporary source claiming something happened–and no actual contemporary source attesting to the same–and a strangely broken history of references to the same–we do start thinking: ‘after the fact mythologization/confabulation/fabrication’.
… like I’m thinking right now.
Right, Stacy. Or is it more like…
“Before the war, Cheney asserted, the administration was positive that the weapons were there and that Saddam Hussein was refusing to acknowledge that. It wouldn’t make any sense otherwise, he said; why would Saddam refuse to cooperate with arms inspectors if he didn’t have anything to hide? Why would he lead his country into war?”
Mordacious1. You are now compounding one story, that of the outing, with another, in which Ophelia somehow successfully executes a cover-up.
Ophelia says she did not out the J&M Author. The Author himself says she did not out him, calling it ‘utter bullshit’. There is no record anywhere of such an event. Why should we consider your accusations as anything but truthless?
mordacious1:
It might have been possible to attribute your first lie to memory fabrication or some such thing: You really want to come up with reasons why Ophelia is evil, so you fabricate a story and credulously convince yourself it’s true. It wouldn’t reflect well on you or your skeptical abilities, but at least it would have been ‘honest’ in some sense. But now, doubling down on the lie in the face of Author him/herself calling it “utter bullshit”? Why should anyone take anything you say seriously at all? What reason does anyone have to consider you anything but ‘lying asshole – ignore’ from now on?
(Clears throat)
We now know that Ophelia did not out Author.
Richard Strawkins has retracted the accusation.
Mordacious has doubled down and accused Ophelia of deleting post(s) that contain the outing of Author that Author said didn’t happen.
Mordacious must be arguing that in addition to any posts Author has seen, Ophelia also posted other posts that Mordacious saw, but Author did not see or that Author is lying. Further, Mordacious must know the true identity of Author to know that Ophelia outed Author and not as is argued used a common first name in deleted post that could belong to any Tom, Dick or Author.
Given we cannot find this deleted post that no one apart from Mordacious recalls seeing, one must invoke skeptics favourite maxim, used as a signature by members of the slymepit: that which is argued without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. To wit, Mordacious has no evidence that Ophelia outed Author in posts not seen and not in existence. Author denies any outing. No evidence has been presentd that Author is lying about being outed.
Case dismissed. Full damages awarded to Ophelia Benson, plus extra fully franked internet credits (only valid on the intertubes) for this vexatious, unsubstantiated slur. Mordacious owes Ophelia an apology, recommended that Ophelia not contain breath awaiting it.
Now where’s my medecine?
And who say Russell Blackford was a liar? I think he’s got a privileged blind-spot, but don’t think he’s a liar.
Perhaps mordacious is thinking of changing a couple of letters in his name and moving to another gang: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/spencer-critchley/romney-ryan-right-lie_b_1965348.html
I figured Dick Strawkins name is more than a co-incidence when he first of all ‘amusingly’ posted I was one of them pretending to be a FtB’er. Now his tag line is something I supposedly ‘said’ when it was a quote from the Slymepit.. Admitedly I did get the quote wrong as the word in question was ‘faggy’. At least my ‘tag’ or whatever on Slymepit posts from him is something he said, even if quote mined 🙂
Dick Strawkins on the Slymepit: “we must be the most inept bunch of haters ever”
Seems to be a pretty accurate statement even if he did not mean it that way.
I’m sure that when Author was interviewed on The Pod Delusion earlier this year he did use a single name beginning with D. I wondered at the time if it was a pseudonym. That might be why Mr Strawkins is so adamant that he remembers it.
If Author has used that name for interviews then I’m guessing that it’s not a big deal if others repeat it nor is it much use to any would-be attacker to know that Author uses a very common first name that might not actually be his real name anyway.
Yes: Author’s first name is not a secret; he used it in a podcast that he linked to at Jesus and Mo. It’s a name he shares with hundreds of thousands of other guys in the UK alone.
“mordacious1” – sure. Whatever you say. You of course can say anything you like, because who the fuck is “mordacious1”? Nobody. But you libel me under my real name. Totally fair.
So, let me get this straight:
The claim that Ophelia “outed the J and M’s authors name on Butterflies and Wheels”, a name beginning with D, is a fucking evil vicious lie. That Mordacious claims to remember it is a pretence, and further lies lies lies lies lies from evil bastards.
How does this jibe with the ‘Fun with names’ article of 25th July 2011?
“He’s anonymous but not as secretive as all that; he’s let it be known via a link at J and M that his name is D. Besides I know who he is, and have for a long time (he told me).”
— Ophelia
Name redacted, of course, since we’ve learned from the Vacula Incident that revealing people’s personal information is forbidden, even if it has already been made publicly available elsewhere by the person in question.
They’re still lying liars telling lying lies, I suppose?
@kitl
The claim from Strawkins is that Ophelia ‘outed’ Author. The comment you mentioned (from here, comment #121) shows that Ophelia was simply mentioning that Author had already revealed his own first name, Dave. So yes, anyone claiming that the comment you quoted amounts to ‘outing’ is at best mistaken, and at worst, a liar.
Divide and conquer. It’s a good strategy when you get to make things up about other people as the slimepitters consistently do.
Well, it’s certainly not full documentation. But it is a name. It seems rather strong to denounce this recollection as a lie, especially in such emphatic terms as we see here. Mordacious came along to explain how he clearly remembered the first name being revealed, and was accused of making it all up.
If Ophelia was claiming that her critics were exaggerating a harmless reiteration of a small amount of information already public, then I’d agree. This isn’t exactly a danger to anybody’s safety – we don’t want to blow up a very minor thing into a death threat, that would be very silly indeed. But to claim that the whole thing is a fabrication seems to me to be inconsistent with what we see.
kitl, can you even read? Mordacious1 did not “explain how he clearly remembered the first name being revealed”. Scroll up and read what mordacious1 wrote, then apologize for getting it wrong.
I don’t think so. It’s conventional to use ‘bastards’ only for men, but I don’t see anything inherently gendered about it. If criticising her legitimacy, a Spaniard might refer to Queen Elizabeth I as a bastard, and thereby justify the formation of an armada.
It is, however, a vicious slur against marginalised children of single-parent homes, to raise up this ancient bigotry against non-conventional households. It harks back to the Church policing marriage and family life, and it’s something we as progressive atheists should have moved beyond by now.
Waiting for kitl to apologize…
Strawkins original claim was that Ophelia maliciously revealed Author’s identity, potentially inviting Author’s death, because of a disagreement over the tone of a cartoon. You’ve read the quoted comment – you’re the one that brought it in to the discussion. Can you honestly say that anything in that comment can be interpreted in that way?
My, the silence from kitl is deafening.
Mordacious1 wrote the following:
Perhaps I’m misreading? He claims to remember the first name, because it’s the same as his brother’s; that seems to be a clear memory, unless he is uncertain of his brother’s name! Mordacious does not remember the last name; that’s perfectly understandable, because the last name was not revealed.
Mordacious is certainly not lying when he says he remembers the first name, which Ophelia revealed back then. What do we hear in reply? Truthless. Fabrication. Lying asshole.
Wow. You’ll even quotemine yourselves to maintain your delusion of being “right”. Pathetic, kitl. Just fucking pathetic.
“Strawkins” said I outed Author. That was the lie. It still is.
No, not to me. It’s a harmless slip and doesn’t reveal much. A particularly cautious individual might find “Besides I know who he is” to be a veiled threat of further information release, but in practice I can’t imagine anybody inflating such a small thing into a serious danger. That would be extremely silly and foolish.
Myself I think it’s an exaggeration – but a reasonable exaggeration, given the elapsed time and that the actual documentation could not immediately be found. People who do not like Ophelia might naturally remember things in a poorer light. That doesn’t make them liars, since the facts of the case are indeed as they were presented: only the speculation about the potential danger to Author is unfounded.
Also: deleting troll comments is not “memory-holing” them. They’re not historical documents. We have more than enough evidence of trolling, there’s no need to archive every single example.
More quotemining. Anyone reading the full statement would know that is an extremely unlikely interpretation. The full statement was in response to a person asking why Ophelia knew the author was a man. Why haven’t you apologized yet for getting it all wronge, kitl?
You’re wrong about “the facts of the case are indeed as they were presented”; besides the fact of Ophelia mentioning Author’s name, there is also the presented ‘fact’ of Ophelia’s motivation. It was not presented as speculation, Strawkins didn’t say “I think she did it because X,Y,Z.”
But besides that, in your estimation Strawkins was being extremely silly and foolish, but you disagree with whether there was any actual malicious intent? Does the fact that Strawkins posted his accusation on the Slymepit, a site devoted to hating the writers on FTB, change your opinion of what his motivation for posting his false memory might have been?
Stakkalee, I’m doubtful kitl posted any of that in good faith, so I doubt kitl will admit to being wrong and apologize to Ophelia for all the clearly wrong things kitl wrote.
Umm, no.
That’s, actually, straightforward character assassination. Ophelia cavalierly risked Author’s life? ‘A harmless slip?’
You’re opposing ‘liar’ and ‘fabulist’ here like if somehow they convinced themselves it was true, oh, hell, what can you do… Human beings are like that, dear me.
Y’know, generally, when I find people making excuses like that for spectacularly appalling behaviour, it’s the religious. Dear me. They rilly, rilly believe it. And now they’re hurting people, they so much rilly, rilly believe it? What can ya do?
Let’s keep this properly simple: if you’re turning someone into Pure Evil™ based on your own confabulation, it’s still a lie, whether or not you, personally, think you’ve kinda sorta now convinced yourself you may actually believe it.
The ramifications for you: check shit out before you say it. The world has quite enough earnestly believed lies already.
I’m pretty sure “kitl” didn’t post any of that in good faith, and I have put “kitl” into moderation for that reason, so “kitl” probably won’t be able to reply further.
Oh I don’t know, Aratina, kitl seems like a reasonable guy. The kind of guy who, when presented with overwhelming evidence of his incorrect reading of a situation (as he’s been presented with here,) will come back, admit that he did misread the original claim, and apologize. After all, if you don’t have your integrity what kind of a person are you?
Shucks, should have refreshed. Now I guess we’ll never know whether kitl was sincere… [/snark]
“kitl” left a few more comments, all in the same faux-civil style, all minimizing the lies about me and explaining them as prompted by “dislike” of me. Yeah right, they’ve been cyberstalking me and monitoring my every word and photoshopping me and making up libelous shit about me and bitterly complaining about how ugly I am for a year and a half because they “dislike” me. You bet. No, “kitl” is not sincere.
Exactly, stakkalee. 🙂 We are definitely on the same page on this.
I, for one, am grateful to kit1 (and subsequently stakkalee) for referencing the July 2011 B&W blog post and thus proving that this info was not, in fact “memory holed”. Yet another lie easily refuted.
And now that we can see the whole comment, which has been characterized as furious, sick, and potentially lethal, among other things…
Pffft. I guess ORAC had better sleep with his eyes open from now on.
The “case as presented:”
So, no the “facts of the case” were not at all as presented.
Can we just refer to them as the IBOH from now on?
So the page in which Ophelia mentioned Author’s name did exist? Ok Mordacious was correct there. But if that constitutes outing given Author mentioned first name at j & m, then Ophelia outed me when she called me Brian. Serial outer! 🙂
@Stacy, the IBOH!
FFS I’ve seen a couple over there seriously suggesting that the ‘@SamanthaBoals’ troll really might be Rebecca Watsons friend! No depths of stupidity are too deep when you hate your foes 🙂
Ophelia, did you run over one of the slimepitter’s cat? Or beat up one of their grandmothers? Are you secretly a catholic priest and not an atheist?
I’m trying to understand what started this insane hatred toward you.
No. I don’t understand it either.
What did I do? Hm. I objected to Justicar’s use of “Twatson.” I objected when Miranda greeted the announcement of the Women in Secularism Conference with the insulting remark that she would hate to be invited to a conference just because she had “the appropriate genitalia.” I objected when Abbie Smith said that PZ was “chasing smelly skepchick snatch.” I obected to the torrent of misogynistic crap that kept piling up on Abbie Smith’s blog. I objected when Russell Blackford commented at Abbie Smith’s blog to say “Naughty Abbie!” as if it were all a big joke. And so on. Basically just lots of objecting to misogynistic shit, with specifics.
callistacat #68
It’s worse than any of those. Ophelia is a woman who won’t make them a sammich.
But before you dissented against those ideas, they were cool with you? I remember your blog being recommended about 2 years ago when someone asked where are all the atheist women.
It depends on which they. Most were unaware of me (as I was of them). Some had no opinion.
But two years ago – there was no slime pit then. And there are people now who recommend my blog when someone asks where are the atheist women! The slimepitters don’t represent all of atheism, you know – to put it mildly.
In other words the pit is a creation of the hatred. It didn’t exist before the hatred, to be swallowed up by the hatred. The hatred formed, and that became the pit. It was just comments on Abbie Smith’s blog, for a long time.
Well, I’m sure in time these individuals will get tired being so hateful and become more mature, productive individuals and realize we are all on the same side and should support each other as atheists.
You mustn’t hold your breath, Callistacat.
@callistacat, a couple of them criticised me for not being open and proud like them using their real names. So I looked them up and despite the usual caricature of haters being teenagers in basements they are elderly gents, either retired or not that far off. So no amount of ‘maturing’ is going to help here 🙂
They’ve also kept it up for years so plenty of emotional investment in keeping the war going. Sad thing is if FtBs/Skepchick disappeared off the internet tomorrow… They’d have nothing to talk about on the pit! What would they do with their time!?