Cernovich throwing muck


After my post yesterday about Mike Cernovich’s idiotic recommendations — he claimed, and I quote, If you’re a straight man, you will not get HIV — he’s been firing back pathetically.

One thing he tried to do is claim that while I cited multiple sources that explain that yes, White Man, you can get HIV from unprotected sex, he says that because he cited the CDC, and I didn’t, he wins. Nope. The CDC does not claim that White Man cannot get HIV. There’s a ranking of vulnerability, but because white men having sex with women is low on the list does not mean or imply that you have zero risk. The CDC is not in the business of handing out cards legitimizing irresponsible behavior.

The other thing he’s doing is throwing about wild accusations, including this one:


After a woman accused PZ Myers of rape, he bullied her into silence, violating Title IX in the process.

One has to wonder…what does that have to do with Cernovich’s misuse of CDC data? He’s a lawyer, he should know the irrelevancy of bringing in that charge.

It’s also a grossly dishonest accusation. It’s based entirely on an exchange I reported of an unfortunate encounter with a student — they have no witnesses for their dishonest extensions of the story, because they’re entirely confabulations of their own bizarre obsessions.

Here’s the facts. A desperate student threatened to threaten me with public accusations of sexual behavior if I didn’t give her a good grade. My response was to immediately leave my office, check in with a women graduate student next door and ask her to talk with the student, and then went to my administrator to explain the situation. I moved fast because hanging about and arguing about the situation would have been pointless, and also would have given an opportunity to claim prolonged private contact. My chair requested some assistance from a woman faculty member, and they met with the student to get her story.

I was not there. I had basically recused myself from further involvement. There was no “bullying” — I did not tell the student to do anything, and had no further conversation with her about the accusation in any way. I placed the entire problem in the lap of the university administrators, who made sure that people who could be sympathetic, or at least objective, about her claims were present. She was given ample opportunity to talk freely about the situation, without me present.

I later heard second-hand that she’d retracted the accusation, and that there was no punishment or penalty. That was the end of it.

Now some fuckwits like to claim that I was somehow out to avoid investigation, when my entire response was to 1) remove the possibility that I was engaged in inappropriate behavior with a student by getting the hell out, and 2) be completely open and honest about the situation and allow third parties to handle it.

I don’t know why these morons are bringing up Title IX. You can read about sexual harassment and Title IX, and nothing I did was in violation. I was threatened in private, I stepped away from further engagement, and brought in official representatives of the university, to whom she could have made a public, official complaint. She chose not to, because her claims were false, she would not be able to support them, and I had taken steps to make sure that there wasn’t even an opportunity for her to claim I’d attacked her.

But this claim that I violated Title IX and bullied a student into silence, with the implication that I’d engaged in sexual misconduct, appears frequently enough, thanks to certain dissembling, obsessed assholes who repeat it with their confabulated slant added to it. Keep in mind that the frauds perpetuating their version of the story have no information to justify their bogus twists: so far, they all even get the university where it occurred completely wrong. They are making shit up.

You will also notice something else: these people who peddle the myth never say what they would do differently. Stepping away from the situation and turning it over to official representatives of the university is exactly what you’re supposed to do, and exactly what should be done under Title IX guidelines.

But there is one silver lining to all of this: nowadays when someone cites this event and spins into it this collection of legendary interpretations from the mouths of liars, I know exactly what kind of contemptible idiot I’m dealing with.

Comments

  1. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Fuck, I’m sorry you have to deal with this, PZ.

    Dealing with things like this in an upfront and honest way is the only way things get better.

    I once dated a volunteer at an organization where I was employed. I had no intention of violating my partner’s consent or the org’s employment guidelines – though as far as I knew there were none preventing all dating or some such, merely abuse.

    Before we actually went on a date, i went to the volunteer coordinator and reported that we were going to go on a date. They were a bit weird, like, “Why am I involved, of course adults can date each other if they want?” but I clarified that I just wanted it on record that we are dating, and that I’m aware that sometimes problems can crop up in work/power dynamics even when everyone involved has good intentions and is doing their best.

    Nothing bad happened. The relationship turned out to be a good one for a while, but like most relationships do, it came to an eventual end without either of us dying. Still, to this day, I’m a little sad that it isn’t more normal that people are up front when potential conflicts exist (categorizing, “threaten to threaten,” as in your case, as “potential conflict” or “actual conflict” can be a bit of an abstruse exercise, I admit, but even in potential conflict cases I favor open honesty).

    But actively opposing honest communication? Cernovich, et al., are going full on anti-accountability there.

    Fuck that rape culture bullshit.

  2. Saad says

    That really is pretty pathetic. That he’s bringing that up when on the defensive after being called out on his bullshit makes it sadder. He’s acting surprised that he’s being called out on racism and homophobia after that HIV nonsense. It wasn’t even subtle. What did he expect?

    I’ll just laugh at this some more:

    If you’re a straight man, you will not get HIV.

  3. azhael says

    Oh no, a “gamergater” dishonestly distorting reality and using women as a weapon against their enemies?
    Yeah, no, i totally saw that coming…

  4. ffakr says

    Do you need to prove damages from defamation in Minnesota, or in Federal Court should these people reside in another state in order to win a judgement against them?

    If you could find a competent lawyer to pursue defamation cases solely in exchange for a large enough portion of the settlement, and with a low-enough amount of personal involvement on your part, it’d really shake up the ‘lie with impunity’ strategy they currently utilize. It’d also wouldn’t hurt your retirement savings.

    Heck, even if you couldn’t win personal damages, if there was a high likelihood that your lawyer could win legal fees in court, it might be worth someone’s time to go after these people for you. At least it would be steady work.

  5. says

    Not interested. They can lie all they want — I trust that most intelligent people will be able to see through them.

    I am also just so amused that I seem to regularly, like just about every year, get someone blustering about how they’re going to sue me, and then they fall apart as push comes to shove. I’m not going to follow those tactics. I should get a little rubber stamp with a symbol for lawsuits shot down and stamp my laptop every time it happens.

  6. =8)-DX says

    @ffakr #6
    Except that there’s been a lot of lawyer posturing and overdefensiveness by people actually credibly and publicly accused of sexual misconduct in this community. Cynical defamation lawyering doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it’s badly motivated and usually horrible and I’m pretty sure something PZ wouldn’t seriously consider.

  7. =8)-DX says

    Ah, yes the reaction I was expecting. Yes, people are able to evaluate various claims, despite being regulars of one or another blog.

  8. Rowan vet-tech says

    Weren’t they initially using your story as proof that *false* rape accusations happen like totes all the time?

  9. Donnie says

    @PZ

    I wish that you could feel the face palming through the Internet that I have for you right now:

    Now some fuckwits like to claim that I was somehow out to avoid investigation, when my entire response was to 1) remove the possibility that I was engaged in inappropriate behavior with a student by getting the hell out, and 2) be completely open and honest about the situation and allow third parties to handle it.

    Let me explain to you, in detail, how you should have done it , m’kay:

    1) Female student comes into your office
    2) You close the door so that you are not interrupted
    3) She claims ‘sexual harassment’ if you do not give her a good grade
    4) You laugh it off, because, come on, who is going to believe a student making up a story like that
    5) You pat her on the head, and tell her ‘No. The grade will stand’
    6) You open the door and tell her to go
    7) Administration comes to you with complaint
    8) You laugh it off, and tell them, “your side of the story”
    9) Process drags on
    10) You get frustrated at the nonsense and tell them explicitly what you think of the female student and the accusations because you have truth on your side
    11) The administration see a dangerous pattern in your responses to the claim
    12) The administration clears you of wrong doing
    13) You brag and say ‘finally’
    14) You are passed over for tenure
    15) You get upset, and stuff
    16) Internet stuff
    17) Your name is known for upset, internet stuff
    18) You are denied tenure again
    19) You got to YouTube and find a support group
    20) You rage on-and-on how ‘womenz be lying’ and ‘cannot handle the truth’
    21) PROFIT!

    See, PZ. If you had just followed above, the MRA sexist asshats would be applauding you for being a stand-up man. You would get invitations to all the cool conventions and meet fellow celebs like Paul Elam, Roosh, Thunderfoot, fellow Slympitters, and maybe even shake hands with the World’s #1 internet lawyer Mike Cernovich.

    Why, oh why, did you give up this great opportunity? That is why you are receiving all of this flak. You failed to follow the rule book by not blithely dismissing the accusations and instead you took them seriously. Hopefully, you have learned your lessons and will apply the proper “Rule Book for The Menz next time. M’kay?

  10. Donnie says

    d’oh! Block quote fail

    Now some fuckwits like to claim that I was somehow out to avoid investigation, when my entire response was to 1) remove the possibility that I was engaged in inappropriate behavior with a student by getting the hell out, and 2) be completely open and honest about the situation and allow third parties to handle it.

  11. says

    Bejesus, I’m sorry to see Michael Nugent has fallen that far, to be linked appreciatively by Cernovich … Side eye there! (. )_(. )

  12. jodyp says

    So, his response to your critique was basically to make a false rape accusation.

    Yeah, that’s par for the course with Cernovich. What a piece of shit.

  13. blf says

    He thinks “herpes” is the plural of “herpe”.

    I knew a herpe once. A rather nice, kind, old microbe, not into this newfangled “infection” thing. An true artisan and gentleman bug, would ask you politely if you want to be sick, and if you said “No” would just sigh and go away. Should you say “Yes”, would carefully craft a range of symptoms that would baffle just about anyone but never make you desperately ill — “they don’t come back if you do that” — just sort of under-the-weather. Useful for sick leave and staying in bed and sleeping all day.

  14. se habla espol says

    Now some fuckwits like to claim that I was somehow out to avoid investigation, when my entire response was to 1) remove the possibility that I was engaged in inappropriate behavior with a student by getting the hell out, and 2) be completely open and honest about the situation and allow third parties to handle it.

    Shorter version:

    Now some fuckwits like to claim that I was somehow out to avoid investigation, when my entire response was to initiate an immediate investigation.

  15. David Marjanović says

    See, PZ. If you had just followed above, the MRA sexist asshats would be applauding you for being a stand-up man.

    *applause*

  16. Jacob Schmidt says

    My response was to immediately leave my office, check in with a women graduate student next door and ask her to talk with the student, and then went to my administrator to explain the situation.

    I suspect this is probably what they’re trying to spin into “silencing.” Phrased in a less flattering way, immediately after being told you would be accused, you ran off to get your side of the story in first.

  17. anteprepro says

    Mike Cernovich is obviously a disgusting and amoral human being, but it does rather say something that his most vicious and nonsensical charge was based on the angry ramblings of Michael Nugent. What was all of this about irresponsible accusations again?

  18. Janine the Jackbooted Emotion Queen says

    And Mike Cernovich continues to throw muck.

    There is something about Magic Sperm Man talking what actually is “rape culture” that is quite disturbing.

    Also, why is it that Micheal Nugent claims to be all about the ethics? Demands that people read what he has written and ignore the people that are associated with him. Sorry, but if people like Cernovich and Vox Day were referencing me, I would be wondering what the fuck is wrong with me.

  19. says

    Cernovich throwing muck

    You misspelt “a tantrum”.

    After reading that post, now I know how to react if anyone ever makes a false harassment accusation against me.

  20. rietpluim says

    PZ, you ate a baby alive.

    No need to deny, there must be a witness somewhere, intimidated by you into silence, but we’ll find him and make him talk!

  21. UnknownEric the Apostate says

    Also, why is it that Micheal Nugent claims to be all about the ethics? Demands that people read what he has written and ignore the people that are associated with him. Sorry, but if people like Cernovich and Vox Day were referencing me, I would be wondering what the fuck is wrong with me.

    But Michael Nugent is a very special snowflake who could never possibly be wrong about anything ever. He’s the height of rationality, like that time he wrote a long blog post saying Richard Dawkins could never do anything bad, because Nugent had read Dawkins’ autobiography and, by gosh, he sounded like such a swell guy in it!

    Does Nuge have any actual friends, instead of lackeys and enablers? People who could sit him down and say, “We’re a little bit concerned, buddy.”

  22. says

    That Cernovich post is disturbingly sick. Calling it “psychodrama”, he invents dialog, a scenario, a whole series of events without any evidence. Is that how the law works?